# I'm tired of it How about you



## preservationunion (Mar 17, 2016)

I am not a newbie to this forum . I have had to get a new username to protect myself 
I don't post much on the forum . Have been in the business for 10 years and have seen the decline every year. Between Workmans Comp , Data plans out the roof, Hundreds pictures of every minute detail , Charge backs , cut bids the list goes on and on It's all more and more work for less and less money 
All I know is if every legitimate Preservation contractor said enough is enough I've had it . WE WILL NOT DO IT ANYMORE FOR THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY and the Nationals all of a sudden had 7 or 8 thousand late orders on there books per day . I believe they would re- examine there business models in a REAL BIG hurry. 
It is really getting ridicules out there. Why can't the heart of this industry ,, the Contractors stick together . The hacks will come and Go. with all the insurance crap you need these days as well as records checks I can't believe the nationals can get that many hacks on board in the time it takes them to go broke 
It can be done but it will take everyone . I think if we want to stay in this business and remain profitable it's time 
What do you think ???


----------



## SLUCKY44 (Oct 26, 2015)

The problem is the revolving door of order mills and hacks to complete those orders for bare minimum seem to be endless. The voids are being filled faster than ever with even lower pricing. The order mills and "super" sub-contractors can find loop holes or false identities to avoid backgrounds and insurance on their subs driving the cost for them to do business even lower. They hire illegals and put them in under someone else's Aspen ID and there you go the cost of work just got cut in half never mind the moral aspect of doing the job properly and legally. Until this is fixed the industry as a whole will continue to see pricing driven lower and lower.


----------



## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*Hi*

preservation i agree with your opinion but will never happen. your always going to have someone willing to work cheaper because they found this forum,heard of all the great companies, want to start their own business,and can do better then people thats been in it for years.
I myself would like to see somethin happen,but every year like you said just seems to get worse and harder to make anything.


----------



## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

The perfect contractor candidates are broke, living paycheck to paycheck and have a good line of credit. How many million are out there?


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

The nationals have made it clear that they LOVE those regionals because of their huge footprint.


----------



## newreo (May 30, 2014)

preservationunion said:


> I am not a newbie to this forum . I have had to get a new username to protect myself
> I don't post much on the forum . Have been in the business for 10 years and have seen the decline every year. Between Workmans Comp , Data plans out the roof, Hundreds pictures of every minute detail , Charge backs , cut bids the list goes on and on It's all more and more work for less and less money
> All I know is if every legitimate Preservation contractor said enough is enough I've had it . WE WILL NOT DO IT ANYMORE FOR THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY and the Nationals all of a sudden had 7 or 8 thousand late orders on there books per day . I believe they would re- examine there business models in a REAL BIG hurry.
> It is really getting ridicules out there. Why can't the heart of this industry ,, the Contractors stick together . The hacks will come and Go. with all the insurance crap you need these days as well as records checks I can't believe the nationals can get that many hacks on board in the time it takes them to go broke
> ...


you lasted year longer than we did. 
We only have one national left that has few and far in between rahabs, but it's ok, we are busy, very busy. Question you asked was asked many times before. Nothing will change. P&P industry goes against any logic as there are bottom feeders that will continue fuel this crap.


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

I don't think a union will work, or happen. 

What I do think possible is to create a company made up of quality contractors who can provide the type of service the banks are looking for. 

I am working with a client now that wants me to build a network of contractors to service their property. We are working on the pricing matrix in an effort to get the money right for the boots on the ground. I'm not interested in becoming a regional again but I am considering this offer. If I can get the pricing right I feel like this could be something.


----------



## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I don't think a union will work, or happen.
> 
> What I do think possible is to create a company made up of quality contractors who can provide the type of service the banks are looking for.
> 
> I am working with a client now that wants me to build a network of contractors to service their property. We are working on the pricing matrix in an effort to get the money right for the boots on the ground. I'm not interested in becoming a regional again but I am considering this offer. If I can get the pricing right I feel like this could be something.


Put me down for eastern Pa


----------



## G 3 (May 3, 2015)

preservationunion said:


> What do you think ???


I think that there are WAY too many suckers behind us that even if you were able to convince 1/10th of the P&P crowd to join you, there would be way to many people thinking they can do it better, faster, cheaper, than any way we have now, and the whole thing would bow up in our faces. It's just not going to work. 

Besides, this sounds like a union ploy, and unions now are on the outs. They charge for their membership, and do not offer as much help as they did in the past. CH has a great idea, and I hope his theory pans out.

That's what I think.


----------



## SLUCKY44 (Oct 26, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I don't think a union will work, or happen.
> 
> What I do think possible is to create a company made up of quality contractors who can provide the type of service the banks are looking for.
> 
> I am working with a client now that wants me to build a network of contractors to service their property. We are working on the pricing matrix in an effort to get the money right for the boots on the ground. I'm not interested in becoming a regional again but I am considering this offer. If I can get the pricing right I feel like this could be something.


Sign me up for central NJ


----------



## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

G 3 said:


> I think that there are WAY too many suckers behind us that even if you were able to convince 1/10th of the P&P crowd to join you, there would be way to many people thinking they can do it better, faster, cheaper, than any way we have now, and the whole thing would bow up in our faces. It's just not going to work.
> 
> Besides, this sounds like a union ploy, and unions now are on the outs. They charge for their membership, and do not offer as much help as they did in the past. CH has a great idea, and I hope his theory pans out.
> 
> That's what I think.


That would be great if unions got involved. They would go after the real thief's.
Wells Fargo and bank of America. For allowing this crap to happen. Look at those prices they are pushing. That would be great seeing the big blow up rats in front of the local Wells Fargo.


----------



## preservationunion (Mar 17, 2016)

Maybe a Un ion is not the answer but how about a consortium, a unification , a professional organization call it what you will if enough could stick together for just 1 or 2 days the Nats would get the word that we have had enough . I cannot believe that the Nationals only survive on cheap , un skilled , bottom feeding crap labor. When there Bank , or HUD , FNM, or Freddie contacts see what would happen I'm sure they would tell the Nations fix this of your done. It would be nice to see them struggle for a change . The inly way to do it is to stick together in force We are the Heart of this industry We can make it happen


----------



## G 3 (May 3, 2015)

Bigtrucker said:


> That would be great if unions got involved. They would go after the real thief's.


Does anyone remember what happens when a union strikes, and the companies get "replacements"? There are scabs everywhere who would take the jobs at the lower prices, higher pic counts, and faster turn arounds. It's the scabs who are helping destroy this industry.


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

G 3 said:


> Does anyone remember what happens when a union strikes, and the companies get "replacements"? There are scabs everywhere who would take the jobs at the lower prices, higher pic counts, and faster turn arounds. It's the scabs who are helping destroy this industry.



Want to talk to a real thief talk to a union head!


----------



## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

Bigtrucker said:


> That would be great if unions got involved. They would go after the real thief's.
> Wells Fargo and bank of America. For allowing this crap to happen. Look at those prices they are pushing. That would be great seeing the big blow up rats in front of the local Wells Fargo.


I don't know how many times I have to tell you guys. It's not the banks that are ripping you off! It's the MIDDLEMAN.

I work DIRECTLY with Wells Fargo (PAS) and your head would probably explode if I showed you what I charged for most jobs!

We get our work orders directly from Wells for major repairs and thru the local agents for smaller jobs and also for trashouts, wints, rekeys, lawns, etc..
Either way it's getting approved directly from Wells Fargo and they NEVER ONCE tried to chargeback or cut my invoices.
They don't tell me what to charge, I tell them what I am charging.


----------



## APPSLLC (Mar 9, 2016)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I don't think a union will work, or happen.
> 
> What I do think possible is to create a company made up of quality contractors who can provide the type of service the banks are looking for.
> 
> I am working with a client now that wants me to build a network of contractors to service their property. We are working on the pricing matrix in an effort to get the money right for the boots on the ground. I'm not interested in becoming a regional again but I am considering this offer. If I can get the pricing right I feel like this could be something.



We're ready to join The Force and rebel against the empire. Count us in.


----------



## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I don't think a union will work, or happen.
> 
> What I do think possible is to create a company made up of quality contractors who can provide the type of service the banks are looking for.
> 
> I am working with a client now that wants me to build a network of contractors to service their property. We are working on the pricing matrix in an effort to get the money right for the boots on the ground. I'm not interested in becoming a regional again but I am considering this offer. If I can get the pricing right I feel like this could be something.



Sounds like a nice opportunity. Hope you can make this work as some sort of "model project" for other banks to look at. But I have just one question. After posting this, how bad did your private message box blow up? LOL.


----------



## jjkriv (Feb 21, 2014)

northeastern Pa here


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

safeguard dropout said:


> Sounds like a nice opportunity. Hope you can make this work as some sort of "model project" for other banks to look at. But I have just one question. After posting this, how bad did your private message box blow up? LOL.



It really didn't which is a surprise but I couldn't really respond at this point anyway. Too much is up in the air. Here is a little background for you. A local broker who always pays me out of her cash flow called maybe two years ago? I don't know exactly I lose track of time. She stated that I had used up most of her cash reserves. She was being reimbursed for everything she was paying me it was just that I was doing more and more work faster thane her checks were coming in. She's a great client almost like a mom or older sister. We talk basketball, kids, stuff totally unrelated to properties. So she says I need to sign you up direct with the client so she doesn't have to pay out of her pocket. I said ok. Well since then we have done several jobs for them and all went amazingly smooth except one. It went horribly wrong and they went ahead and paid us for that one. So I have seen how things go with them when it's good and when it's bad. There are no cost estimators or mobile check in apps. We send in photo's of what we are bidding and a word document as a bid. We submit invoices they pay them. If there is a problem we call. It's so basic it's basic. They don't have much set pricing because everything is bid work. So even a grass cut is bid. I am trying to change that as I know it is better if we have some set in stone pricing. We have figured it out on wints and a few other things. 

They just signed 2 new clients and took on more work from the original client. I'm trying to help them but I won't hide the fact that I plan to make some money in the process.


----------



## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> It really didn't which is a surprise but I couldn't really respond at this point anyway. Too much is up in the air. Here is a little background for you. A local broker who always pays me out of her cash flow called maybe two years ago? I don't know exactly I lose track of time. She stated that I had used up most of her cash reserves. She was being reimbursed for everything she was paying me it was just that I was doing more and more work faster thane her checks were coming in. She's a great client almost like a mom or older sister. We talk basketball, kids, stuff totally unrelated to properties. So she says I need to sign you up direct with the client so she doesn't have to pay out of her pocket. I said ok. Well since then we have done several jobs for them and all went amazingly smooth except one. It went horribly wrong and they went ahead and paid us for that one. So I have seen how things go with them when it's good and when it's bad. There are no cost estimators or mobile check in apps. We send in photo's of what we are bidding and a word document as a bid. We submit invoices they pay them. If there is a problem we call. It's so basic it's basic. They don't have much set pricing because everything is bid work. So even a grass cut is bid. I am trying to change that as I know it is better if we have some set in stone pricing. We have figured it out on wints and a few other things.
> 
> They just signed 2 new clients and took on more work from the original client. I'm trying to help them but I won't hide the fact that I plan to make some money in the process.


That would be fun to develop something like that from the ground up, doing things right on BOTH ends while there's so much wrong with the mainstream P&P. It would be a great business model for any foreclosure institution.

Back to the original topic of this thread.....

I talked with my buddy today that works for Safeguard. There was a conference call and the main question Safeguard is getting is "how do I get more work?". 

There are a LOT of bottom feeders still out there. No way you'll ever organize all that muck. I wouldn't want any part of it anyway....


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

safeguard dropout said:


> That would be fun to develop something like that from the ground up, doing things right on BOTH ends while there's so much wrong with the mainstream P&P. It would be a great business model for any foreclosure institution.
> 
> Back to the original topic of this thread.....
> 
> ...


I've had more disappointment than Goerge H.W. Bush when his son was in the White House. We will see what happens. All I know is this has to be right or I'm not interested.


----------



## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

miss the old days when you got a work order you changed the lock, winterized the property and turned in a invoice a bids of damages, and/or repairs ect.


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> miss the old days when you got a work order you changed the lock, winterized the property and turned in a invoice a bids of damages, and/or repairs ect.



That's how I do it with most of my clients. We call it Renaissance work.


----------



## InTheRough (Mar 20, 2016)

Please count me in on upstate NY


----------



## InTheRough (Mar 20, 2016)

Is it sad that being a toddler in P&P work, that I am as frustrated as you old timers with work quality and bottom feeders? I take pride in my work and what I am doing but have been made aware that I am replaceable.


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

InTheRough said:


> Is it sad that being a toddler in P&P work, that I am as frustrated as you old timers with work quality and bottom feeders? I take pride in my work and what I am doing but have been made aware that I am replaceable.



There is no room for pride in P&P. I've said it a million times over the years if you want to be a craftsman go be one. Specialize and be the best! If you want to do P&P be cheap and fast. That's all that matters. The nationals are beating this in my head.


----------



## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> There is no room for pride in P&P. I've said it a million times over the years if you want to be a craftsman go be one. Specialize and be the best! If you want to do P&P be cheap and fast. That's all that matters. The nationals are beating this in my head.



I can do Both..


----------



## MidWestSwindler (Nov 15, 2015)

Count me in CLH


----------

