# Show of hands, please...



## BamaPPC

Well, how many think you'll be quitting over the new grass cut pricing from Safeguard?


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## wmhlc

*To: Property Preservation Contractors
From: Vendor Management
Memo 1408: Revised Grass Cut Pricing Structure 2013 *
To address pricing inconsistencies, Safeguard will adopt a new pricing structure to ensure that pricing is fair and consistent regardless of the work source. This new consistent pricing structure will also reduce invoicing confusion. Effective April 1, 2013 Safeguard's pricing structure for grass cuts completed by any maintenance vendor on an initial secure, convey maintenance order, or recurring grass cut will be as follows for all loan types and in all states:

Square Feet of Lot  Initial Grass Cut Grass Recuts 
0-10,000 $60 $45
10,001-15,000 $70 $50 
15,001-25,000 $80 $60
25,001-35,000 $90 $70 
35,001 - 1 acre $105 $85 
Desert Landscape 
/Small Lots $50 $35 

Trimming Shrubs $40

Accuracy of the lot size reported is critical and must be substantiated with documentation from the tax assessor or a rolling distance measuring wheel. The reported lot size should reflect the actual square footage of grass being cut and should not include wooded or paved areas.
As a reminder, initial grass cut bids will not be accepted if any one of the following apply:
• Lot size is less than one acre and the grass is less than 12 inches high
• The grass cut due date has passed 
• There is incidental debris in way of the cut, please move the debris

Bids to trim shrubs will not be accepted if any of the following apply:
• Vendor did not bid or trim on the first grass cut trip to the property 
• Shrubs are not causing damages to the house 
• Shrubs are not impeding walkways and do not pose a threat of citation

Bids for grass re-cuts will not be accepted if any of the following apply:
• Lot size is less than one acre 
• The grass due date has passed 
• There is incidental debris in way of the cut, please move the debris

Thank you.


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## TRIWORK

wmhlc said:


> *To: Property Preservation Contractors
> From: Vendor Management
> Memo 1408: Revised Grass Cut Pricing Structure 2013 *
> To address pricing inconsistencies, Safeguard will adopt a new pricing structure to ensure that pricing is fair and consistent regardless of the work source. This new consistent pricing structure will also reduce invoicing confusion. Effective April 1, 2013 Safeguard's pricing structure for grass cuts completed by any maintenance vendor on an initial secure, convey maintenance order, or recurring grass cut will be as follows for all loan types and in all states:
> 
> Square Feet of Lot Initial Grass Cut Grass Recuts
> 0-10,000 $60 $45
> 10,001-15,000 $70 $50
> 15,001-25,000 $80 $60
> 25,001-35,000 $90 $70
> 35,001 - 1 acre $105 $85
> Desert Landscape
> /Small Lots $50 $35
> 
> Trimming Shrubs $40
> 
> Accuracy of the lot size reported is critical and must be substantiated with documentation from the tax assessor or a rolling distance measuring wheel. The reported lot size should reflect the actual square footage of grass being cut and should not include wooded or paved areas.
> As a reminder, initial grass cut bids will not be accepted if any one of the following apply:
> • Lot size is less than one acre and the grass is less than 12 inches high
> • The grass cut due date has passed
> • There is incidental debris in way of the cut, please move the debris
> 
> Bids to trim shrubs will not be accepted if any of the following apply:
> • Vendor did not bid or trim on the first grass cut trip to the property
> • Shrubs are not causing damages to the house
> • Shrubs are not impeding walkways and do not pose a threat of citation
> 
> Bids for grass re-cuts will not be accepted if any of the following apply:
> • Lot size is less than one acre
> • The grass due date has passed
> • There is incidental debris in way of the cut, please move the debris
> 
> Thank you.


Is this for every state?


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## ontimepres

That memo refers to maintenance or Preservation vendors ... It doesn't apply to the Seasonal Grass Cut Vendors Safeguard hires to do recurring yards. Those vendors are at a flat rate of $25-35 depending on what they negotiated in their area to cut up to 1 acre. The guidelines for those vendors has changed significantly this month as well, added a lot of work and doubled the photo requirements.


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## garylaps

Those prices are competetive if they don't take their 25%


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## Racerx

TRIWORK said:


> Is this for every state?


 

*To: Property Preservation Contractors*
*From: Vendor Management*
*Memo 1408: Revised Grass Cut Pricing Structure 2013 *
To address pricing inconsistencies, Safeguard will adopt a new pricing structure to ensure that pricing is fair and consistent regardless of the work source. This new consistent pricing structure will also reduce invoicing confusion. Effective April 1, 2013 Safeguard's pricing structure for grass cuts completed by any maintenance vendor on an initial secure, convey maintenance order, or recurring grass cut will be as follows for all loan types and in *all states*:

Square Feet of Lot Initial Grass Cut Grass Recuts 
0-10,000 $60 $45
10,001-15,000 $70 $50 
15,001-25,000 $80 $60
25,001-35,000 $90 $70 
35,001 - 1 acre $105 $85 
Desert Landscape 
/Small Lots $50 $35 

Trimming Shrubs $40

Accuracy of the lot size reported is critical and must be substantiated with documentation from the tax assessor or a rolling distance measuring wheel. The reported lot size should reflect the actual square footage of grass being cut and should not include wooded or paved areas.
As a reminder, initial grass cut bids will not be accepted if any one of the following apply:
• Lot size is less than one acre and the grass is less than 12 inches high
• The grass cut due date has passed 
• There is incidental debris in way of the cut, please move the debris

Bids to trim shrubs will not be accepted if any of the following apply:
• Vendor did not bid or trim on the first grass cut trip to the property 
• Shrubs are not causing damages to the house 
• Shrubs are not impeding walkways and do not pose a threat of citation

Bids for grass re-cuts will not be accepted if any of the following apply:
• Lot size is less than one acre 
• The grass due date has passed 
• There is incidental debris in way of the cut, please move the debris


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## hammerhead

the 1 regional that i work for rejected their prices for recurring gas cuts. they only wanted to pay $ 23 to the vendor up to 1 acre and the were spread out.


Thank God


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## SwiftRes

I ran the numbers against all my lawns for last year. It's a 16.7% reduction in price on average from last years prices. My sheet had a mix of FHA/FNMA/FMAC/CV.


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## BRADSConst

I'm NOT defending SG or anyone else cutting prices, but does anyone think this is a result of the government, taxes and Obamacare? I'm sure a lot has to do with Greed, but I can't help but think that the little guys are getting punished by the government..:icon_rolleyes:


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## GTX63

Little guys vote too....


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## SwiftRes

BRADSConst said:


> I'm NOT defending SG or anyone else cutting prices, but does anyone think this is a result of the government, taxes and Obamacare? I'm sure a lot has to do with Greed, but I can't help but think that the little guys are getting punished by the government..:icon_rolleyes:


No, it's most likely just greed. SG is getting all of the same pricing. 16% reduction in lawn pricing is huge for them, considering the amount of lawns they have. That's probably $8k or better out of my pocket this summer, and figure there's thousands of other SG vendors. 

I didn't disagree with the way they did it before(of course because it benefitted me). Hire grass only vendors in the urban areas for a lower pricing, make their $$ there, and pay guidelines in the other areas.


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## hammerhead

GTX63 said:


> Little guys vote too....


we may vote but I question how much it counts.


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## BamaPPC

This is greed. SG didn't get a pay cut. They are attempting to line their pockets. 

I may be imagining things, but it appears SG is trying to make as much money as they can until everyone quits. May be a retirement plan. Or Klein and Jaffa know something we don't. Like the end is near for them. Government regulation coming? FHA/VA/FMC/FNM are about to change the way they handle their properties? And this is a money grab before it collapses?

But, whether it's intentional or not, I can't see any reputable contractors staying for the long haul with the constant reduction in pricing. There will always be those that will try to cheat and steal to make money at these kind of prices, so life may go on for SG. 

I don't know. But I can see a time when all they can get is the "crackhead craigslist" contractors and they'll steal every water heater, stove, fridge, HVAC they can get in their trucks. And there won't be any way an "honest" man can make a living.


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## cvalley

Not sure if I can handle SG for another year. Been with them since 2009. They are getting worse and worse in terms of respect for their vendors. Their new zones are twice the size than last year (which were even too large then). 

I just received two dozen orders tonight. They want me to drive two hours from my shop to mow a lawn. There are three lawns in that town, but driving two hours from my shop doesn't take into account that a major portion of the drive is a highway that is in gridlock from 630-900 am and 2-7 pm. I'm looking at three hours to drive to the first property! 

Anyone have any luck with SG giving select zip codes to cover. I had a regional that told me they would do that for me and then they switched and formed a new GC department and they said they wouldn't do that.


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## GTX63

We handled yards for them for about 7 years. They'll budge on some things but not coverage areas.


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## mtmtnman

garylaps said:


> Those prices are competetive if they don't take their 25%



An acre, 12" tall for $105 is NOT competitive ESPECIALLY when you have to get rid of the clippings! That is what 15,000 Sq Ft paid 2 years ago and is STILL what HUD matrix calls for. An acre of grass 12" tall will FILL UP a 16' trailer nearly 3' deep. 1' of grass is AWEFULLY hard to mulch....


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## SwiftRes

mtmtnman said:


> An acre, 12" tall for $105 is NOT competitive ESPECIALLY when you have to get rid of the clippings! That is what 15,000 Sq Ft paid 2 years ago and is STILL what HUD matrix calls for. An acre of grass 12" tall will FILL UP a 16' trailer nearly 3' deep. 1' of grass is AWEFULLY hard to mulch....


And not to mention the zone sizes. It may be competitive in urban areas, but they want 100 mile x 100 mile areas covered(that you are most likely NOT in the middle of) for that pricing.


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## GTX63

Lol, and all of the properties in the middle sell right away and the ones on the edge just sit.


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## BamaPPC

I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I've had a full day to try and wrap my head around this. I went back and did some math on last years grass cut numbers. If I had completed last years GC's at these prices, I'd have seen a profit reduction of over $10K. That's a ton of money to me.

Looking forward, I see more than that in profit reduction. I can't afford it. But, i'm in a tough spot. If I tell SG to pound sand, I'm out over $300K in income. I can't afford that either.

If it were just me. I'd not have any qualms about shaking a finger at them (the one next to my ring finger, and not my pinkie). But, I've got 6 employees and my family to consider. I've got 3 other families that are depending on me- my employees families. Maybe some bosses wouldn't think twice about shafting their employees by anouncing they don't have a job anymore, as of next week. Me, I care. And the stress I'm feeling is because I don't want to let my people down. Makes me feel like a failure because I couldn't come up with a solution. It's not my fault SG is a prick of a company. I can't control what they do and the fact that they don't want to negotiate. But, I still feel responsible for my employees.

So, unless enough SG contractors apply pressure, and SG responds by backing off this stupidity, (not too likely) then I've got to line up with everyuone else, with my pants around my ankles, or find another revenue stream. Something I don't think will be possible. Our local real estate agents either don't maintain properties, or they already have their own crews. Checked into that last year. P&P is all I've done along these lines. I was a career saleman for 25 years before this. I can't take my employees with me if I go back. And I do NOT want to go back.

Going to work for a regional isn't an option. The pay there is worse. Going to another National, it's all the same BS, so what's the point?

what to do, what to do...


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## P3+

Bama- your emotional response regarding the loyalty to your employees is refreshing. I applaud you for that.

Just remember though (and this will come off harsher than intended). You are running a business. When feasibility is no longer a viable option then tough decisions have to be made. Your #1 priority is to protect you, your family, and YOUR business. If people find themselves unemployed by this decision, that is unfortunate, but people in general are resilient. The cream will always rise to the top. Don't go broke only to protect those that you feel loyal to. Your employees will understand if they have half the compassion that you express. 

Good luck on the conundrum.


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## GTX63

My guys have known for a long time that if I'm not making any money, then they won't be making any money. I tried working for break even just to ensure my subs could pay their bills. It doesn't work. Turning 70k a month from one national and netting minimum wage makes you old, tired and bitter. I think my man, you are about to meet the mother of invention. Godspeed.


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## STARBABY

BamaPPC said:


> I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I've had a full day to try and wrap my head around this. I went back and did some math on last years grass cut numbers. If I had completed last years GC's at these prices, I'd have seen a profit reduction of over $10K. That's a ton of money to me.
> 
> Looking forward, I see more than that in profit reduction. I can't afford it. But, i'm in a tough spot. If I tell SG to pound sand, I'm out over $300K in income. I can't afford that either.
> 
> If it were just me. I'd not have any qualms about shaking a finger at them (the one next to my ring finger, and not my pinkie). But, I've got 6 employees and my family to consider. I've got 3 other families that are depending on me- my employees families. Maybe some bosses wouldn't think twice about shafting their employees by anouncing they don't have a job anymore, as of next week. Me, I care. And the stress I'm feeling is because I don't want to let my people down. Makes me feel like a failure because I couldn't come up with a solution. It's not my fault SG is a prick of a company. I can't control what they do and the fact that they don't want to negotiate. But, I still feel responsible for my employees.
> 
> So, unless enough SG contractors apply pressure, and SG responds by backing off this stupidity, (not too likely) then I've got to line up with everyuone else, with my pants around my ankles, or find another revenue stream. Something I don't think will be possible. Our local real estate agents either don't maintain properties, or they already have their own crews. Checked into that last year. P&P is all I've done along these lines. I was a career saleman for 25 years before this. I can't take my employees with me if I go back. And I do NOT want to go back.
> 
> Going to work for a regional isn't an option. The pay there is worse. Going to another National, it's all the same BS, so what's the point?
> 
> what to do, what to do...




I think were all facing the same problem! I was looking at telling Cyprexx I could no longer do recurring services for due too low pay! $35 lawn $25 maids I can`t make the numbers work and there adding more work on top of low pay


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## cvalley

Heads up to some...They want us to confirm bids on roofs now too! Now they expect me to go in take photos on ladders and download them for the same price as last year? Sent an email to SG, we will see what they tell me tomorrow. I might have to laugh them off the phone at that point.


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## hammerhead

loosen up the vocal cords because it will fall on deaf ears


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## ontimepres

Confirm roof bids?! It's a different story every time a different rep answers the phone up there. A little birdy told me today all BAC grass cuts will be once a month for the entire year, and will not be bi-monthly through the summer in Florida. It was so ridiculous that I couldn't even be angry, just laughed at that one!


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## npm

last summer with BAC cuts were starting to once a month. I called my rep they said just do them as your assigned them. I asked to charge double since its supposed to be bi-weekly and attached/quoted all the different loan type guidelines. 

My grass cut volume was reduced after that conversation


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## ontimepres

npm why does that not surprise me? Up until today I had never heard this before. In our area it's not an option to cut once per month, the grass GROWS! In some cities we see code notices posted when we are cutting bi-monthly.


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## JDRM

ontimepres said:


> Confirm roof bids?! It's a different story every time a different rep answers the phone up there. A little birdy told me today all BAC grass cuts will be once a month for the entire year, and will not be bi-monthly through the summer in Florida. It was so ridiculous that I couldn't even be angry, just laughed at that one!


They will be over allowable every time you show up, let me guess, then they will raise allowable to 3 ft....:whistling2:


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## GTX63

As I recall, once it becomes reocurring service, it is never over the allowable.


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## SwiftRes

GTX63 said:


> As I recall, once it becomes reocurring service, it is never over the allowable.


If over like a foot in recurring as long as order isn't past due you can call over allowable


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## JDRM

It all depends on who you work for. Im sure this has happened to us all, where a property just drops off and 3 months later it shows up, you go by there and grass is 3ft tall with code violation. I know its happened to me several times. We always get bid approved


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## BPWY

JDRM said:


> It all depends on who you work for. Im sure this has happened to us all, where a property just drops off and 3 months later it shows up, you go by there and grass is 3ft tall with code violation. I know its happened to me several times. We always get bid approved






Happened all the time for me, and 98% of the time did not get bid approval.

The idiots would rather let it go into violation, pay in the mid four figures for the violation, fees, fines and the city to cut it than they would pay me $300 less discount to deal with the problem immediately.

Happened over and over.


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## BPWY

mtmtnman said:


> 1' of grass is AWEFULLY hard to mulch....





Your multi thousand dollar Hopper can't handle the heat? :thumbup: :thumbup:

You need to get rid of it. :yes: :yes: 


Look what a $300 craigslist mower can do with 2' grass.














































And the final insult........ :lol: :lol:
Look what a $3000 WALKER can do. 
















:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:


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## BPWY

BamaPPC said:


> I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I've had a full day to try and wrap my head around this. I went back and did some math on last years grass cut numbers. If I had completed last years GC's at these prices, I'd have seen a profit reduction of over $10K. That's a ton of money to me.
> 
> Looking forward, I see more than that in profit reduction. I can't afford it. But, i'm in a tough spot. If I tell SG to pound sand, I'm out over $300K in income. I can't afford that either.
> 
> If it were just me. I'd not have any qualms about shaking a finger at them (the one next to my ring finger, and not my pinkie). But, I've got 6 employees and my family to consider. I've got 3 other families that are depending on me- my employees families. Maybe some bosses wouldn't think twice about shafting their employees by anouncing they don't have a job anymore, as of next week. Me, I care. And the stress I'm feeling is because I don't want to let my people down. Makes me feel like a failure because I couldn't come up with a solution. It's not my fault SG is a prick of a company. I can't control what they do and the fact that they don't want to negotiate. But, I still feel responsible for my employees.
> 
> So, unless enough SG contractors apply pressure, and SG responds by backing off this stupidity, (not too likely) then I've got to line up with everyuone else, with my pants around my ankles, or find another revenue stream. Something I don't think will be possible. Our local real estate agents either don't maintain properties, or they already have their own crews. Checked into that last year. P&P is all I've done along these lines. I was a career saleman for 25 years before this. I can't take my employees with me if I go back. And I do NOT want to go back.
> 
> Going to work for a regional isn't an option. The pay there is worse. Going to another National, it's all the same BS, so what's the point?
> 
> what to do, what to do...








Your employee loyalty is to be commended. 
I've worked for guys that would F their employees, their mom and themselves even when times were good if they thought it'd make them just one more buck in their pockets. 


This is the reason I harp all the time on diversifying your business.
P&P simply is not a sustainable business model for the contractors doing the work.
Its only sustainable when you are the guy with the money and can set the rules.
Profit margins not high enough?????? Cut the rate and tell the contractors to like it.


Can you pick up some local lawn mowing, now is badly behind the 8 ball for picking up contracts for 2013, but you might be able to pick up some residentials.

What about some remodeling jobs, fence building, deck building, landscaping?



Hopefully you can brain storm your way into some good work soon.


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## JDRM

BPWY said:


> Happened all the time for me, and 98% of the time did not get bid approval.
> 
> The idiots would rather let it go into violation, pay in the mid four figures for the violation, fees, fines and the city to cut it than they would pay me $300 less discount to deal with the problem immediately.
> 
> Happened over and over.


Once again, it depends who you are working for, we always get approved.


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## BRADSConst

BPWY said:


> Your multi thousand dollar Hopper can't handle the heat? :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> You need to get rid of it. :yes: :yes:
> 
> 
> Look what a $300 craigslist mower can do with 2' grass.
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> :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:


There is no way in hell I beleive that little pushmower mulched those without bagging :no::no::no:. Hell even a Walker or Hopper is going to mulch that. Only thing that can mulch that is sheep or goats....


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## 68W30

you mean you dont blow it under the truck as SOP


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## mtmtnman

BRADSConst said:


> There is no way in hell I beleive that little pushmower mulched those without bagging :no::no::no:. Hell even a Walker or Hopper is going to mulch that. Only thing that can mulch that is sheep or goats....




Maybe after 6 passes and IF it's really dry. Wet??? No way.....


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## BPWY

It was dry and I did it in three passes. Believe what you want.
I didn't bag a single stem.


I'll be happy to show any of ya in person.


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## GTX63

BPWY's mower....


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## danny1217

GTX63 said:


> BPWY's mower....


Just so happens I have one like that for the newbie I hired for the mowing season. Friend of mine's son needs work and this is his "machine" till he gets aquainted with the expensive equipment. We start with the basics: 1st he has to learn what a straight line is !! then we move on to actually cutting the grass in a straight line. I have litterally started newbies with running a cut with my walk behind and telling them start at my cut and keep going back and forth working your way over and remember to overlap your cut a little so you don't miss anything. Come back 15 min later and it looks like Stevie Wonder jumped in to take over for him. Over the years I've had some really good helpers who caught on quick, still have a couple, and some that I've thrown in the truck and drove'm home in the middle of the day.


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## BPWY

That POS is barely qualified to be called a mower beside what I run.

Even "new" that POS is merely a down payment on mine.


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## BPWY

Ya'll unbelieving heathens (just kidding, lol) are gonna make me dig out some more pics of what that little mower can do. 

Like 6' tall weeds...... cut down and mulched..... not a single stem bagged.

Maybe this weekend I'll have time to dig into an old computer and look for pics.


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## dryBgerG

BPWY what is the make of your so called "Super Mower"? Do they still make them?


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## BPWY

John Deere model JX85 with 6 hp Kawisaki engine. 


Sadly no.


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## dryBgerG

BPWY said:


> John Deere model JX85 with 6 hp Kawisaki engine.
> 
> 
> Sadly no.


That's how it is these days, I have so many old tools because the new tools don't do as good a job or last as long.


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## dryBgerG

There is a JX75 on my local craigslist right now for $300.


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## Valley

We start our new people with the basic................................. Then move on to more advanced


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## BPWY

dryBgerG said:


> There is a JX75 on my local craigslist right now for $300.




Unless it's in GOOD shape that might be a little high.
New they were $850ish.

If it checks out try to pick it up for $200.


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## dryBgerG

BPWY said:


> Unless it's in GOOD shape that might be a little high.
> New they were $850ish.
> 
> If it checks out try to pick it up for $200.


It "looks" good. I just purchased a second trailer yesterday along with another blower so I won't be able to make any more purchases for a week. I need a 21" mower for the second trailer so if it's still on there in a week I'll go check it out.

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/for/3700844444.html


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## BPWY

That ones got the Briggs motor, 04 is around the end of the run for the JX75 and 85s. 

It looks barely used. I'd get all over that as soon as you can.


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## BRADSConst

BPWY said:


> That ones got the Briggs motor, 04 is around the end of the run for the JX75 and 85s.
> 
> It looks barely used. I'd get all over that as soon as you can.


I agree with BPWY. That is one of the last years where DE actually manufactured their own consumer walk behinds before branding snapper walk behinds. If memory serves, that an aluminum deck. Check the underside for wear.. Florida crushed coral type dirt wears on the aluminum pretty hard. 

Disclaimer, I own a JS63 stamped steel deck. Runs like a champ.


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## dryBgerG

BPWY said:


> That ones got the Briggs motor, 04 is around the end of the run for the JX75 and 85s.
> 
> It looks barely used. I'd get all over that as soon as you can.


So are these bag or mulch only? Never seen one so I am wanting something that can discharge as well. Rear discharge on a walk-behind seems dangerous unless it'ts deflected down or maybe to the side.


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## BRADSConst

dryBgerG said:


> So are these bag or mulch only? Never seen one so I am wanting something that can discharge as well. Rear discharge on a walk-behind seems dangerous unless it'ts deflected down or maybe to the side.


They should be able to discharge as well. There are plastic chutes that mount to the same points as the bag. Unfortunately, if the the guy doesn't have it, the Deere dealer will most likely charge more for it than you paid for the entire mower :furious:.


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## BPWY

$30 at the stealership.


I use a bungy cord, 

Cheaper that way, less likely to plug.
I'll take some pics tomorrow.
It'll help the non belivers understand why I can cut 2' tall with 3 passes.


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## cvalley

I can raise my hand now, too! Good bye SG. Too much BS from them


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## BPWY

The political posts from this thread have been moved. 
http://www.preservationtalk.com/showthread.php?t=2307


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## BPWY

I found two more after pics of what that mower did to that high grass.


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