# time to quit



## Guest (Apr 1, 2012)

how many are seriously thinking about quitting the business?i know it sure is hard to keep going with gas prices and low pay


----------



## HollandPPC (Sep 22, 2012)

d+jhomeservices said:


> how many are seriously thinking about quitting the business?i know it sure is hard to keep going with gas prices and low pay


It's better than flipping burgers at McDonalds for minimum wage. No matter how crappy preservation can get there are people much worse off. What does not kill you in this industry will make you stronger?


----------



## Guest (Apr 1, 2012)

This is for every tradesman. 

Up your prices. If everyone would just charge what they should be, then the buyers won't have a choice. 

Stop selling/bidding so cheap. What's wrong with you people?

I've put my rates up the last 3 years running, as costs went up. People keep hiring me. 

Whatever business the customer is in, you think they're not putting their prices up? Sure they are.

You're just killing yourselves. Up your prices.


----------



## Guest (Apr 1, 2012)

katoman said:


> This is for every tradesman.
> 
> Up your prices. If everyone would just charge what they should be, then the buyers won't have a choice.
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure these fellas get told what the job pays.


----------



## david (Apr 11, 2012)

kato when you work for a company you dont decide pricing,if your working for yourself yes


----------



## Guest (Apr 1, 2012)

d+jhomeservices said:


> kato when you work for a company you dont decide pricing,if your working for yourself yes


Sorry, thought you were self employed.

Ok, if you're not making enough money where you are then start looking for better paying work. Do not quit your current job first. If you find better work, then go for it.

Hey, for what it's worth being self employed is no picnic either. It's long days, risk, headaches. But I'm not going to do it for no money.

All the best. :thumbsup:


----------



## Guest (Apr 2, 2012)

katoman said:


> Sorry, thought you were self employed.
> 
> Ok, if you're not making enough money where you are then start looking for better paying work. Do not quit your current job first. If you find better work, then go for it.
> 
> ...


long hours, you mean like how i am writing estimates at 9pm on a sunday?


----------



## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

I have switched to doing lawns only, it is profitable and less headaches, photo requests,etc.


----------



## Guest (Apr 2, 2012)

chris klee said:


> long hours, you mean like how i am writing estimates at 9pm on a sunday?


Yup, I did my invoicing while on CT tonight. :thumbup:

Is that multi-tasking ? :laughing:


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

post deleted because of CT moderator censorship


----------



## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

JDRM said:


> I have switched to doing lawns only, it is profitable and less headaches, photo requests,etc.


This is exactly the route I have gone too. On the rare ocassion I do bid a job I bid it for profit and do not care one wit whether I get it or not. If I do I make money, if I don't I lose nothing.


----------



## Guest (Apr 2, 2012)

d+jhomeservices said:


> kato when you work for a company you dont decide pricing,if your working for yourself yes


Are you receiving a paycheck every week that is about the same amount? Or are you doing things job by job? Do they supply you with tools? Pay your insurance and WC? Do they tell you where to be, when and how to do the job, if so you are an employee.

If not then you are an independent contractor and you set your own pricing. If that is something they are not willing to pay then you don't accept the job.

If everyone in your field would say no to the lowball pricing they force on you then nothing would get done and they would be forced into paying you a better amount for the work you perform. If you keep accepting jobs at discount rates they that is what they are going to keep offering.

And yes, I am self employed, have been for nearly 20 years.


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Leo G said:


> Are you receiving a paycheck every week that is about the same amount? Or are you doing things job by job? Do they supply you with tools? Pay your insurance and WC? Do they tell you where to be, when and how to do the job, if so you are an employee.
> 
> If not then you are an independent contractor and you set your own pricing. If that is something they are not willing to pay then you don't accept the job.
> 
> ...






If only it was that simple!



Before the economy and housing collapse that would have been easier.
Today with so many folks out of work they jump on these jobs because they see the gross pay and think to themselves that its more than I was making at my job.... must be a good deal.

Not realizing there is insurance to buy, work trucks, tools, employee wages etc etc and then wait 60 plus days to get paid.

When some one that realizes the value of his services quits because of the low ball pricing it doesn't matter to the greedy nationals. There are 100 other poor suckers waiting in line that will take the abuse, and this has allowed the rapid downward progression of prices.

Its BS, but thats reality.


----------



## Guest (Apr 2, 2012)

The way that I figure is that if nobody wants to pay my price, I am shopping the wrong clients. And I admit that I am bad at taking my own advice sometimes.

But lately I've been studying the techniques and tactics of the hack contractors who swindle money out of old people and well off folks who are too naive to know the difference. I mean if a hack can charge someone $30K for a bathroom remodel and then walk away with ALL of the money without doing any of the work, he must know something that I don't.

I often ask myself, "Where was I?" when the old lady wrote that check. So if it means that I have to be a little pushy or use a few persuasive, sneaky, and underhanded scare tactics to get the gig... and in the long run I end up providing excellent service, then is that completely a bad thing?


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

As long as you are providing excellent service for the price charged then I'd say that all is fair in love and contracting. lol


----------



## Guest (Apr 2, 2012)

*Good luck*

It's very discouraging, irratic work loads, do everything under the sun for a base price for qc to cut it as much as possible and then vendor b will take as much as possible. We are trying to restructure more with b of a and recurring services. There's a lot less overhead and you can at least guarantee your debris and jobs Not being cut. Good luck right now everyone really needs it in this business with all the ever changing stipulations


----------



## Guest (Apr 3, 2012)

E&C said:


> It's very discouraging, irratic work loads, do everything under the sun for a base price for qc to cut it as much as possible and then vendor b will take as much as possible. We are trying to restructure more with b of a and recurring services. There's a lot less overhead and you can at least guarantee your debris and jobs Not being cut. Good luck right now everyone really needs it in this business with all the ever changing stipulations


Your talking FAS talk. I feel your pain there man. :wallbash:


----------



## Guest (Apr 3, 2012)

tedanderson said:


> The way that I figure is that if nobody wants to pay my price, I am shopping the wrong clients. And I admit that I am bad at taking my own advice sometimes.
> 
> But lately I've been studying the techniques and tactics of the hack contractors who swindle money out of old people and well off folks who are too naive to know the difference. I mean if a hack can charge someone $30K for a bathroom remodel and then walk away with ALL of the money without doing any of the work, he must know something that I don't.
> 
> I often ask myself, "Where was I?" when the old lady wrote that check. So if it means that I have to be a little pushy or use a few persuasive, sneaky, and underhanded scare tactics to get the gig... and in the long run I end up providing excellent service, then is that completely a bad thing?


I wonder the same thing. I see hack work all the time and wonder how they get away with it. I miss one tiny thing and not only do I feel bad, but the HO always catches it and acts like it's the end of the world. Meanwhile, hack guy charges the same as me and forgets things like primer, caulking, sealing. You know, the optional things. :laughing:


----------



## Tom Stuble (Sep 17, 2012)

it's not that they get away with it,it's just that they don't care...in the least


----------



## Guest (Apr 3, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> it's not that they get away with it,it's just that they don't care...in the least


So true. I wonder where a guy can buy such a conscience, or lack there of.


----------



## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

E&C said:


> It's very discouraging, irratic work loads, do everything under the sun for a base price for qc to cut it as much as possible and then vendor b will take as much as possible. We are trying to restructure more with b of a and recurring services. There's a lot less overhead and you can at least guarantee your debris and jobs Not being cut. Good luck right now everyone really needs it in this business with all the ever changing stipulations


Better off doing commercial and residential work.


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

After 15 yrs in this business, we are also going to "exit, stage left" in the near future. 

With that said, if any of you reading this are interested in picking up some P&P work in the Minneapolis/St Paul areas, please PM me! I'm all for cutting grass for the next few months only... 



BPWY said:


> I've worked my self out of P&P over the last 6 months. I have some very attractive landscape contracts and dealing with local customers is so much easier than trying to explain to a national minimum wage employee why some thing should or should not be done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

Welcome to the club. REO/P&P is for the newbies to go broke doing as far as I'm concerned, heck had I been smart I'd have gotten out in '09 when things really started to turn. It's gotten so far to the left that the balance will never return. I can see the vultures circling the dead carcasses on a daily basis. :thumbsup:


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2012)

katoman said:


> This is for every tradesman.
> 
> Up your prices. If everyone would just charge what they should be, then the buyers won't have a choice.
> 
> ...


Thats all good and well in theory. But when you're competing against guys who will drive 100 miles in a 2500 truck pulling a trailer to do a $40 dollar job what do you do? You can't get the price up in that market or they dump you for the next cheapest guy. You wait he'll be gone soon because he ran himself out of business and make the markups on your bids and hope they accept/pay. In this economy any one with a lawnmower and google thinks they can get into the PP game. As p3+ said its time to get out while you can. I branched out to private side in '10 and do very well now.


----------



## klandmk (Apr 14, 2012)

We are thinking.....
Do you have an alternate route to take? That's what is most difficult, finding the best path to take....


----------



## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

I'm in the same boat with you guys. I have a conscience. I also have a work ethic. My father taught me the old adage - no matter what job you're given, do it to the best of your abilities.

But, in this Property Preservation racket, there always seems to be a guy willing to accept a job for nothing and do a real hack job for that low ball price. And then he can walk away from it and appears to get paid. 

I'm reading the guidelines and trying to follow them, I cut the grass, string trim the entire yard, edge the concrete, blow off the clippings, rake any "excessive" clippings, take all the pictures, and expect to be paid the max allowable, or my bid if that's the case. And these other guys are running their mower around the house not even getting as close as they can to the buildings, trees, fences, ect. and getting paid the same as me. 

Really makes you think about adjusting your values. But, character is something I value too highly to let someone else dictate to me what mine should be. So, I struggle on, negotiating cut bids.


----------



## Guest (Apr 30, 2012)

If you work around hacks and get the same money as them you either have to become a hack or quit. Because one the PP companies have a taste of that low money work they will never look back. They will just keep finding guys that will underbid to get the work and then cheat them out of a fair days pay because you can't possibly do what they want for those prices. There will always be someone willing to underbid you or someone who has no conscience that can do that kind of work and "think" it is good.


----------



## Guest (May 1, 2012)

Leo G said:


> If you work around hacks and get the same money as them you either have to become a hack or quit. Because one the PP companies have a taste of that low money work they will never look back. They will just keep finding guys that will underbid to get the work and then cheat them out of a fair days pay because you can't possibly do what they want for those prices. There will always be someone willing to underbid you or someone who has no conscience that can do that kind of work and "think" it is good.


Yup, you wind up with lower margins than the hacks, otherwise. If you're good and in the right area, you can carve out a niche market for yourself. The places that market to a higher level require good finish work, but it can't be super expensive. They pay better because the hacks can't meet the quality.

I've seen "property management" companies rob absentee owners blind - just one example: I guess the owners were happy to get a sump pump purchased and installed at a hack price. I bet they would have been surprised to see the sump pump sitting on it's side in the cellar not hooked to anything, and not in a sump hole (which didn't exist).


----------



## Guest (May 1, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> I'm reading the guidelines and trying to follow them, I cut the grass, string trim the entire yard, edge the concrete, blow off the clippings, rake any "excessive" clippings, take all the pictures, and expect to be paid the max allowable, or my bid if that's the case. And these other guys are running their mower around the house not even getting as close as they can to the buildings, trees, fences, ect. and getting paid the same as me.


Rule number one of property management: property managers get the most money per hour if they don't do anything beyond finding tenants,accepting bids, and writing checks.

Quality isn't a part of the usual management contract.


----------

