# fas and base program+amh



## Guest

has anyone heard yet much about this,everytime i ask management what areas ahm is takin away they just say we dont know anymore then the vendors right now,work has been slow to none makes you wonder if their waiting till dec 1st to start sending work orders


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## Splinterpicker

IF you are referring to American Home mortgage ALL states is what has been the murmur. 1/1/2012 is the cutoff date of FAS and AMHSI 


ON ANOTHER NOTE I have not been able to get the base plus concept to sink in either. If it is as bad as has been posted on here they (FAS) are either in SERIOUS financial trouble , trying to tank their own company or as has been sujested trying to get "Mom and Pop" shops to quit. I suspect they are "sleeping " with another company because the revolt over the pricing is going to lead to alot of contractors saying yes we will take the WO when they have NO intention of pulling the truck out of the drive way. Or there is a 2 tirered pay scale for the people who have say 5 plus crews and over and those who dont??? The companies that have office staff have additional over head and they will absolutely DIE with the same pricing that has been shown here. How they can expect a good job for what they are sending out for pricing is beyond me. Insurance, sales tax ( in some states up to 10%) fica and medicare, labor and industries, auto insurance and E&O insurance and not to mention a 1 MILLION GL policy all add up to going backwards  REALLY FAST. The addition of more and more services and no compensation is a mind blower :no: They have too many internal issues ( 17 page) work orders that contradict themselfs that PREVENT us in the field from effectively being able to do the work. They KNOW the work orders are a CFD( cluster  diagram) of confusion and thats how they think every contractor works. NOT I understand they have not sent out any specs on the BOA rollout and I would have to say that is important because they have been courting BOA for 2 years. PPPPPP Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. I say we should organize a OCCUPY FAS MOVEMENT AND get a NATIONAL news program out there or 60 minutes to see what is being done.


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## david

splinter are you saying at end of year amhi is done completely with fas,because i heard their losing part of their contract,but we all know we dont get truth from fas,their definetly is more going on then what their telling us


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## thanohano44

splinterpicker said:


> IF you are referring to American Home mortgage ALL states is what has been the murmur. 1/1/2012 is the cutoff date of FAS and AMHSI
> 
> ON ANOTHER NOTE I have not been able to get the base plus concept to sink in either. If it is as bad as has been posted on here they (FAS) are either in SERIOUS financial trouble , trying to tank their own company or as has been sujested trying to get "Mom and Pop" shops to quit. I suspect they are "sleeping " with another company because the revolt over the pricing is going to lead to alot of contractors saying yes we will take the WO when they have NO intention of pulling the truck out of the drive way. Or there is a 2 tirered pay scale for the people who have say 5 plus crews and over and those who dont??? The companies that have office staff have additional over head and they will absolutely DIE with the same pricing that has been shown here. How they can expect a good job for what they are sending out for pricing is beyond me. Insurance, sales tax ( in some states up to 10%) fica and medicare, labor and industries, auto insurance and E&O insurance and not to mention a 1 MILLION GL policy all add up to going backwards REALLY FAST. The addition of more and more services and no compensation is a mind blower :no: They have too many internal issues ( 17 page) work orders that contradict themselfs that PREVENT us in the field from effectively being able to do the work. They KNOW the work orders are a CFD( cluster  diagram) of confusion and thats how they think every contractor works. NOT I understand they have not sent out any specs on the BOA rollout and I would have to say that is important because they have been courting BOA for 2 years. PPPPPP Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. I say we should organize a OCCUPY FAS MOVEMENT AND get a NATIONAL news program out there or 60 minutes to see what is being done.


Lol occupy FAS? What are you going to do? Go to Austin, TX and camp in front of their HQ and cry, moan, do drugs, take a **** in the streets, do dope and demand free stuff for nothing like the other occupy idiots?

If FAS is the problem, they surely can't be the answer. Sounds like you're a fan of unions. No serious business owner has time for stupid **** like that. 

Ps-you can be shot on the spot in TX for trespassing. Boom bang.


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## thanohano44

d+jhomeservices said:


> splinter are you saying at end of year amhi is done completely with fas,because i heard their losing part of their contract,but we all know we dont get truth from fas,their definetly is more going on then what their telling us


The entire contract will be pulled.


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## Splinterpicker

yes I was told ALL of the states are going away with AMHSI

As far as being shot well that just shows a less than stable mentality. It takes more brains to walk than fight. I was just saying that kind of negative publicity is NOT what they want. Dale was crying about how FAS was being drug through t he mud last year on the internet. Dio a search and the informationn that pops up is not pretty. Do you think with negative NATIONAL coverage they would be able to get vendors. And yes they do treat us like mushrooms ... kept in the dark and fed dung. As for unionization it would be interesting at least the spray of dung we have to endure would be lessesed because we would have a mediator and recourse. As for the back charges of 200 if there is a QC decline they have not set in stone what a QC decline is. Is it where they request photos or is it if after the request and they dont get their photos it becomes A QC decline. I have had issues with teh QC people not referencing photos when tehy ask for something. This is just lazy on their part. I am just saying dont wine just do the work and you might get paid is a line of crap. I have not seen an industry go down hill so fas as this one over teh last 4 years and I agree GREED IS RUINING IT. Pay a man an honest wage enable them to complete the work and all are happy . As I see it FAS is 0 for 2


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## Splinterpicker

No drugs and conduct your self respectfully if you want to get your point across. Also FAs is part of a company that is publiclly held. I say an attack of negative media might have an effect on the share holders. I would hope they would send a message to the owners and put their monies, investments where it will give a better return.


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## thanohano44

splinterpicker said:


> No drugs and conduct your self respectfully if you want to get your point across. Also FAs is part of a company that is publiclly held. I say an attack of negative media might have an effect on the share holders. I would hope they would send a message to the owners and put their monies, investments where it will give a better return.


Sounds like you're more of an employee than a business owner.


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## david

so if amhi is dong away with fas who are they going with next or they liquadating all their properties,just spoke with a realtor who does bpo's for amh and said they were getting real crappy about everything.


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## thanohano44

d+jhomeservices said:


> so if amhi is dong away with fas who are they going with next or they liquadating all their properties,just spoke with a realtor who does bpo's for amh and said they were getting real crappy about everything.


Word is, Safeguard


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## david

is this etched in stone or rumors


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## thanohano44

d+jhomeservices said:


> is this etched in stone or rumors


Just a rumor I heard. It wouldn't be the first time Safeguard outbid another national provider out of work.


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## david

so if safguard gets it cu yd will pay problaby lower then fas did


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## thanohano44

d+jhomeservices said:


> so if safguard gets it cu yd will pay problaby lower then fas did


I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's going to happen.


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## Guest

I would assume that if you work for FAS,you are starting to sweat a little bit.I don't deal with them but seems alot of contractors have alot riding on them.

I love dealing with AMS but alot of contractors don't like them,so I guess its everybody preferences


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## Guest

MKM Landscaping said:


> I love dealing with AMS but alot of contractors don't like them,so I guess its everybody preferences


I have been with AMS for 7 months and haven't received a work order yet.


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## Guest

72opp said:


> I have been with AMS for 7 months and haven't received a work order yet.


I only do HUD and fannie routines for them.There is alot of small work with them,always a break in,loose wire,etc etc.


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## thanohano44

MKM Landscaping said:


> I only do HUD and fannie routines for them.There is alot of small work with them,always a break in,loose wire,etc etc.


We do the post conveyance HUD REO stuff for them. It's been pretty good so far but not my favorite client. I'd rather do work for regionals. But it's great work for training newbies.


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## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> We do the post conveyance HUD REO stuff for them. It's been pretty good so far but not my favorite client. I'd rather do work for regionals. But it's great work for training newbies.


The regionals up here have lots of work,but have terrible prices and terrible coordination.Too work for the regionals up here I would be trapped do low ball fas work.My regional gives me tons of LPS work


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## Guest

Who is your favorite client?Great question


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## BPWY

MKM Landscaping said:


> Who is your favorite client?Great question






Home owners that pay me cash on the spot at the completion of a job.


Some of my commercial customers that pay me in less than 2 weeks after billing them.


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## Splinterpicker

this , AMHSI going to safeguard came from FAS reps that came to our state and were there for the vendor A and B program. They said Slaveguard WAY undercut FAS on the contract. Has this happened before? YES They came back to FAS after being with Safefguard. This could be more of a slap in the face for Dale and the upper management as they used to work for AMHSI.


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## thanohano44

splinterpicker said:


> this , AMHSI going to safeguard came from FAS reps that came to our state and were there for the vendor A and B program. They said Slaveguard WAY undercut FAS on the contract. Has this happened before? YES They came back to FAS after being with Safefguard. This could be more of a slap in the face for Dale and the upper management as they used to work for AMHSI.


Nature of business. AHMSI can save more money by going with Safeguard.


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## Guest

I have not dealt with or tried safeguard but if there prices are lower than FAS,I would assume that alot of contractors would just walk away


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## Guest

AMHSI is going to LPS.
FAS lost the contract due to vendors going to homes and switching the expensive appliances with cheap ones and FAS didnt do a thing about it.


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## RichR

Just received my 1st AMHSI order this morning for an Initial Secure from Safeguard. Hmmm


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## BPWY

Hasn't SG had a few of them all along?


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## david

from my understanding safguard and fas split the work for amh


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## GTX63

Yes we get a few from SG from time to time.


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## thanohano44

NTPP said:


> AMHSI is going to LPS.
> FAS lost the contract due to vendors going to homes and switching the expensive appliances with cheap ones and FAS didnt do a thing about it.


Wow. Do you have proof of this claim?


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## david

than it wouldnt surprise me at all,ive had realtors call me direct saying all the appliances had been removed in a property that were brand new,it was actually a safguard vendor doing it


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## RichR

Todays order is the first I have seen in the 5 plus years I have been with Safeguard. Maybe there just isn't that many properties in my area serviced by them?


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## Guest

You have been with safeguard for 5 years and today was your first work order??


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## RichR

Um, No my mistake. This was the first AMHSI order I have seen.


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## Guest

I'm a vendor w/ FAS and heard well over a month ago from FAS that AHMSI was bye-bye. Crew did AHMSI trashout today for FAS. Guess we'll see after the first.


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## david

just curious how base program is working for you fas vendors and the new camera deal.


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## Guest

I'm probably one of the few Vendors that can appreciate the FAS flat fee. I almost consider it a reward after 4 years of doing business with them. Granted, I run Subs so I have to have volume to turn a decent profit but I'm sick of CFK trashouts with no debris and a awful jani. Jobs like this is why good Subs walk away from this industry and me. At least flat rate pricing can alleviate the pain on a 1cy trashout.


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## mtmtnman

TPP said:


> I'm probably one of the few Vendors that can appreciate the FAS flat fee. I almost consider it a reward after 4 years of doing business with them. Granted, I run Subs so I have to have volume to turn a decent profit but I'm sick of CFK trashouts with no debris and a awful jani. Jobs like this is why good Subs walk away from this industry and me. At least flat rate pricing can alleviate the pain on a 1cy trashout.



FAS has all BAC houses here. 80% are FULL of trash. Because of this they are not doing Flat Rate here but from the pricing they have tried to negotiate with a business acquaintance here, there is no way in hell you could turn any sort of profit!! (FWIW he never replied back after the flogging he got back on pricing) 

Board a sliding glass door for $85???
Initial yard cut up to 1/4 acre $60???
Weekly lawn 1/4 acre $35????
2000 Sq Ft Jani, $75?????


This is just a small example and these prices are less than HALF of what BAC pays direct to contractor through a broker. Plus through the broker it's simple Before (when you 1st show up on job) and after (when your walking out the door) pictures. None of this "ACTION SHOT" Bullchit, No load photos, No Dump Receipts, NO BS!!

Some of the shoddiest work i have ever seen has come from FAS contractors around here. Trash still in drawers, inch of dust on top of fan, cabinets ect, Skuz in showers and tubs, Trash hidden in bushes Ect. It is unbelievable until you see what they are paid and then you start to understand. They have also been sending a guy in from Washington State paying him mileage to do work yet won't pay a decent amount to local guys. How does that work?


FAS Lost the BAC contract 2 years ago from the same BS and it really looks like that could happen again. The realtors are already talking amongst themselves about how to get rid of FAS and that is a good start Properties that was taking my company 2 days to turn are up to 6 weeks out for FAS. There are broken doors letting vandals in, Frozen pipes, Water damage Ect. all because FAS can't get their chit together and get these places secured.

One broker told me a story yesterday where FAS's "Whip" as he called them tried to jew him down on a trashout. I had bid this one direct with BAC before FAS took over and BAC left it sit. My bid was north of $12,000 for 200 YDS debris, Janitorial, Appliance removal, Carpet removal, Wint, Lock Change and cutting 4' of grass on 1 acre around the house. This house is an old Countrywide that has sat full of food and trash for 3.5 years. It is FULL of rats and mice so this alone would mean full suit up, gloves and respirators. He came in around $9000 and they tried for a half hour to get him down on his price and when he wouldn't budge, they gave it to another guy who had the same problem. 2 weeks later they still have not found anyone to do it any cheaper and the house STILL sits.

I just have to laugh at these outsiders coming around and trying to run herd on us. They find a sucker once in a while but it is not too often!!!


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## david

old saying you get what you pay for,wont surprise me soon when you read fas goes bankrupt because no vendors to work,they need to remember us vendors make their check for them,not other way around,they need to start to appreciate and pay,treat their vendors better


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## Guest

Good Morning,

I doubt that companies that are discussed in the negitive on this forum will ever go bankrupt. It looks like FAS lost BOC contract once before and they are still here. There are still postings on CL for less than desirable contracts and I sure that these ad's receive a lot of people inquiring into the service who have no idea what is going on.

The idea that I have been toying with is for the people on here to get together to form some kind of accreditation organization for property preservation work. I can see that maybe having a positive impact for the contractors in P&P.

However, I doubt that any of the people on this board want to be apart of a leadership postion in that group. We are all very independent minded people on this board and that is probably one of the reasons why we all started our own business...


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## Guest

I get allot of BAC work directly from the broker. My favorite are big trashouts. 

These guys get screwed on flat pricing because they have to cover up to 30 or 40 cy with the flat fee so anything over that they bid high thinking they will cover their losses on the 25-40 yarders that they lose money on.

So they bid and FAS or whoever tacks on 20%

I bid them at $60 cy and get approved every time.

So they get to do all of the 20-40 yard trashouts and LOSE money and I come in take all the big money makers.


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## Guest

Bingo BigDaddy! We get $250 for winterizes, $60cyd debris, $225 for lockchanges etc etc. The guys working for the regionals/nationals are making them RICH.

p.s. AOPPC (Association of Property Preservation Contractors) is starting soon.


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> p.s. AOPPC (Association of Property Preservation Contractors) is starting soon.


What's this.?


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## mtmtnman

mbobbish734 said:


> What's this.?


More info forthcoming as it comes available................


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## Guest

Take us in.....


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## david

im in let me know


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## Guest

Good Evening,

I would also like to know more about the Association of Property Preservation Contractors.


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## Guest

LOL. Good people. It takes time to get the Government filings, law firms on retainers for pre-paid legal representation for contractors, association insurance programs, a strong lobbying arm and all the other items. I hope its very soon.


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## Guest

*Definatly Safeguard*

Spoke to a very reliable realtor who just got an email and AHM is going to Safeguard. I also spoke to a couple of people at FAS, since I have all new contact managers who told me that FAS just let 150 people go from their office/support staff. Doesnt sound like a company who is moving in the right direction. 

We will lose on every trashout that is more than 14 cubic yards of debris with the new flat fee... not a good way to go!


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## Cooper2001

I am receiving work order from SG for AMH. The work order says the key code for padlocks is the same 5 digint key code for the knoblocks and deadbolts. I have never seen this before and have always used the standard A3** keycode for padlocks. Can anyone tell me if this was the case when FAS was completing this work?


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## david

padlock codes are bout same for any property even for hud housing


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## thanohano44

d+jhomeservices said:


> padlock codes are bout same for any property even for hud housing


Go to MFS supply, they have both of the a*** padlocks you might be asking about. The newer ones we use on HUD REO's. 

There is also a padlock that can be set to a 5 digit code on there.


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## Cooper2001

MFS, Bargain Locks, Roper Lock, Nuset, none of them have every heard of a 5 digit padlock. They have 3 and 4 digit padlocks but not 5. I was able to find some on Amazon.com but they are pretty poor quality.


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## BPWY

Call SG and ask em.


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## mtmtnman

Cooper2001 said:


> I am receiving work order from SG for AMH. The work order says the key code for padlocks is the same 5 digint key code for the knoblocks and deadbolts. I have never seen this before and have always used the standard A3** keycode for padlocks. Can anyone tell me if this was the case when FAS was completing this work?



As usual SG has head inserted in nether region. We started using combo padlocks for FNMA properties set to the same code as the *LOCKBOX* which on FNMA properties is different on every home and set to the loan number that went to foreclosure.


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## Guest

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> ...However, I doubt that any of the people on this board want to be apart of a leadership postion in that group..


Right you are, because that would be a conflict of interest to certain posters here (you know who you are) who are moles for the MFS companies.


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## Guest

*Help needed*

Can anyone tell me how I can get in with Bank of America? I cant seem to find any way to apply to be a vendor for them. Im doing work for national companies that work for them but they don't pay the kind of money you guys are making...lol


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## GTX63

Just curious, what kind of money do you think a preservation contractor makes?


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## Guest

*Money*

Well I know Im not making $225 for a winterization nor am I making $60 a cubic yard, FAS may be making that but I certainly am not..lol If these guys are cutting out the middle man and making money straight from BAS then that is obviously the way to go instead of lining Dale's suit pockets.


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## Guest

Hmm, I didn't know that anyone makes 60 per one QY of debris. Also, I think FAS got BAC, I don't know what states. Also I know many companies BAC is contracted with outsource it to middle man like you and this is when contractors are making 15 per QY.


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## BPWY

Its next to impossible for a small business to get in direct with the large banks.

You need to be able to cover at a minimum the entire state. 
Multiple state coverage will get you farther.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> Its next to impossible for a small business to get in direct with the large banks.
> 
> You need to be able to cover at a minimum the entire state.
> Multiple state coverage will get you farther.


And have full time office staff. An 800 phone# with around the clock coverage.


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## Guest

metropaintingco said:


> Hmm, I didn't know that anyone makes 60 per one QY of debris.


I bid all of my jobs at $50-$60 cy

Actually my bid just reads "Remove all interior and exterior debris and broom sweep all floors" and then the price. I never specify how many yards but I eyeball the yardage and charge $50-$60 depending on amount, what it is, and where it is (basement, attic, yard..)


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Its next to impossible for a small business to get in direct with the large banks.
> 
> You need to be able to cover at a minimum the entire state.
> Multiple state coverage will get you farther.


I get capital repair bids directly from 3 major banks. The rest of my work like trashouts, small repairs, wints, lawn, etc.. come thru brokers but it's still really direct to the bank.

I only cover 4 counties which is roughly 25 mile radius from my house!


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## mtmtnman

BigDaddyPin said:


> I get capital repair bids directly from 3 major banks. The rest of my work like trashouts, small repairs, wints, lawn, etc.. come thru brokers but it's still really direct to the bank.
> 
> I only cover 4 counties which is roughly 25 mile radius from my house!



I was getting a lot of BAC direct work (trash out, sales cleans) but FAS took that over. VERY little repairs being done here. Homes are being prices AS IS. Can't tell you the last time we have done or seen any kind of major repair but then again, most of the foreclosures hare are less than 10 years old.......................


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## brm1109

*Advise for a nailer*

Hello all,
I know this may seem odd, but I need to know the type of numatic nailer I would need to use to nail plywood to windows.
I have a customer that wants the windows boarded but it doesn't have to be with 2x4.
Would you use a framing gun, roofing or other type.
Thanks,


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## BPWY

Unless you are certain that they are not boarded to HUD regs I wouldn't touch it.

Sounds to me like a hack regional that has NO clue what they are talking about.
I'd still bolt board em, the cost in materials isn't going to be much different. The time cost isn't going to be much if any different.


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## thanohano44

brm1109 said:


> Hello all,
> I know this may seem odd, but I need to know the type of numatic nailer I would need to use to nail plywood to windows.
> I have a customer that wants the windows boarded but it doesn't have to be with 2x4.
> Would you use a framing gun, roofing or other type.
> Thanks,


You can't nail them. You need to use carriage bolts.


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## Guest

brm1109 said:


> Hello all,
> I know this may seem odd, but I need to know the type of numatic nailer I would need to use to nail plywood to windows.
> I have a customer that wants the windows boarded but it doesn't have to be with 2x4.
> Would you use a framing gun, roofing or other type.
> Thanks,


I always board using 2x4 and bolts, no exception!

If you nail you will cause permanent damage and the nail might not even hit anything solid, using 2x4 there is no damage and takes only minutes per window extra so I don't see the reason for nailing. 

Also, if you nail or screw from the outside anyone can just pry it off so it's not really secure. 

If you insist on nailing use a framing gun, not a trim nailer. I actually just re-boarded a window that was done by FAS that used 2 18ga trim nails on a 48x70 opening


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## thanohano44

BigDaddyPin said:


> I always board using 2x4 and bolts, no exception!
> 
> If you nail you will cause permanent damage and the nail might not even hit anything solid, using 2x4 there is no damage and takes only minutes per window extra so I don't see the reason for nailing.
> 
> Also, if you nail or screw from the outside anyone can just pry it off so it's not really secure.
> 
> If you insist on nailing use a framing gun, not a trim nailer. I actually just re-boarded a window that was done by FAS that used 2 18ga trim nails on a 48x70 opening


I hear Freddie Macs FNG in my area uses a nail gun. Lol.


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## HollandPPC

BPWY said:


> Unless you are certain that they are not boarded to HUD regs I wouldn't touch it.
> 
> Sounds to me like a hack regional that has NO clue what they are talking about.
> I'd still bolt board em, the cost in materials isn't going to be much different. The time cost isn't going to be much if any different.


There are some cities I have heard of that just board over window/doors. This is usually after fire damage, condemned, or like you said hack regional. Just to CYA though you should probably use 2 x 4s.


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## BPWY

HollandPPC said:


> There are some cities I have heard of that just board over window/doors. This is usually after fire damage, condemned, or like you said hack regional. Just to CYA though you should probably use 2 x 4s.






Usually they are using a special screw head that the driver isn't readily available at Lowes for easy removal by vandals and bums.
I forget the name they call those screws.


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## Guest

Fire boardups and City Boardups on vacant homes we use torque screws...all by drill. The big companies use a gun. Drill them right to the frame and go. $150 per 4x8 sheet. Easy to do 10-15 sheets on windows---then the damaged roof is even more


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## brm1109

Thanks,
Believe me I am not a hack. This is for a customer that had fire damage. Anything to do with foreclosures I wouldn't do it any other way except with the carriage bolts and 2x4.


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## GTX63

We have a crew that used square bit screws, the same type found in RVs.


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## Guest

Having done several of these for the City of Des Moines here, I suggest using coated torx screws with fender washers, spaced roughly 6" apart, that is unless the window is clad with steel/aluminum/vinyl. In that case I would use the traditional 2x w/carriage bolt procedure. 

Just my .02


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## Guest

Just as a comment. HUD requires bolt boarding, however when we come to the properties where city already nailed the boarding and this boarding was removed by you can guess who, we use same method of re-boarding especially if we can't get out of the building once we board the door. Every city has it's own code on how they do things, possibly they right not to care if they damage anything or not as 99% of the houses they board - totals


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## thanohano44

metropaintingco said:


> Just as a comment. HUD requires bolt boarding, however when we come to the properties where city already nailed the boarding and this boarding was removed by you can guess who, we use same method of re-boarding especially if we can't get out of the building once we board the door. Every city has it's own code on how they do things, possibly they right not to care if they damage anything or not as 99% of the houses they board - totals


That makes sense. But PP work rarely makes sense. You have to follow Murphy's Law when submitting estimates.


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