# small claim court



## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Let's say someone in Delaware owes someone in Alabama for work completed in Alabama 
Which state will small claims court be in?


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

Alabama. That is where the work took place. The thing is, they have to come to Alabama for every hearing. They will more than likely not want to incur the expense and either pay or attempt to settle.


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

cutting grass said:


> Let's say someone in Delaware owes someone in Alabama for work completed in Alabama
> Which state will small claims court be in?


HAve you filed Liens ?? It is a way easier and more cost effective way of getting their attention and once recorded it has to be resolved before the property can be sold ! I did this with 3 point and was paid within a week of their getting thje liens as before they would not return calls.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

The guy in Delaware is a sub of a national 
I spoke with the national and they said I couldn't do a lien. I have my doubts about this but haven't researched it.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

cutting grass said:


> The guy in Delaware is a sub of a national
> I spoke with the national and they said I couldn't do a lien. I have my doubts about this but haven't researched it.


If I was a National, I'd tell you couldn't file on a property that I was responsible for too :shifty:.

Here, a lien is filed at the courthouse in the county where the property/work completed is located. Not the county your business is in.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

BRADSConst said:


> If I was a National, I'd tell you couldn't file on a property that I was responsible for too :shifty:.
> 
> Here, a lien is filed at the courthouse in the county where the property/work completed is located. Not the county your business is in.


 That is exactly why I was doubting it.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

cutting grass said:


> Let's say someone in Delaware owes someone in Alabama for work completed in Alabama
> Which state will small claims court be in?


Kind of like "I have a friend who may or may not be pregnant...."


So the national told you that you can't file a lien? Why, because you signed a waiver on page 47 subsection L of your contractor agreement?
That's for the judge to figure out. By the way, some states don't even recognize that silliness.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Not sure why you are trying to make that comparison ^^^
Some guy in Delaware says he is not going to pay me for grass cuts preformed in Alabama 
I would like to know if anyone knows where court would be held 
In Alabama or Delaware


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

I didn't sign any contracts with the national 
He says if national doesn't pay him then he doesn't pay me.
National says they don't get involved and that if he owes me take him to small claims court 
Delaware guy doesn't understand that the agreement between me and him is between me and him 
He keeps trying to bring the national into it.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Some Nationals, like Safeguard, have contract language that states all litigation will take place in Ohio in whatever county they are headquartered. In four states, I have yet to find a judge that abides by that. The big boy nationals, if it is a fairly large case, will sub the first appearance to a local attorney. They'll just have him show up and ask for a continuance or try and slip the request to move it to their home state . If you are working for a sub, then they probably won't have a lawyer in house to handle everything that comes in. They'll try and blow you off until it goes to their client.
Your OP just mentioned "someone". Of course it's you.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

cutting grass said:


> I didn't sign any contracts with the national
> He says if national doesn't pay him then he doesn't pay me.
> National says they don't get involved and that if he owes me take him to small claims court
> Delaware guy doesn't understand that the agreement between me and him is between me and him
> He keeps trying to bring the national into it.


There has been a lot of debate in the past over this topic.
I pay my guys for what they did. I don't make them wait 60 days for their money. If I get stiffed then it is on me. Some here operate differently.
Since you didn't sign a contract, you are right. You are working for the Doofus in Delaware. A notice of intent to lien with a copy sent to the National and the lender WILL get them involved.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Right me 
But the way Im reading what you just wrote 
Is that the national will get involved 
Maybe I'm reading it wrong
My nonpayment issue is with Delaware guy 
I'm purdy sure he is new at it and in over his head


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yes, the National will tell you that it is a "you" problem. They will tell you they don't get involved. There have been plenty of stories of subs getting ripped off by these crooks and the Nationals looking the other way. So much for background checks.
I should have said not all Nationals will respond. But a lien is a lien. If the client gets the notice they will be contacting the National, who most likely will be contacting the sub/your boss. Five Brothers, for example have shown that they don't like even the "L" word mentioned, so when push comes to shove, they have shown that they will try to work things out.
You have no way to know why your guy didn't get paid. Could be he screwed it up on his end. Best bet if it is a fair amount of money is to get an attorney asap.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Yep that's where I'm at with all of this 
Either he got paid and isn't paying me for what ever reason or he screwed something up and wants me to eat it. Delaware guy can't even provide me with a list of what he has paid for. I am under the impression he didn't keep up with any of it. Just sent me work orders and had me send pics to a processor.
I did find out from national that I can have it court ordered that they (national) provide a list of what he(Delaware guy) got paid for.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

"Yes, the National will tell you that it is a "you" problem."

I am willing to accept that it is a "me" problem
Should I have to
probably not 
is it a hassle 
heck yeah
but I am not in the wrong in any way shape or form so I am willing to accept the challenge. 
Plus its real slow in the winter and gives me something to do.
Not sure if it is enough $ to get a lawyer involved
That's why I am going with the small claims court suggestion.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

From what you are saying the lien would be the best guarantee of getting your money. Even if you win in court with the sub, it doesn't guarantee a check. It just says a judge declare the money is owed. However, if you file a lien, the property cannot be sold until you are paid in full. 

Basically, the sub probably signed an agreement that he agreed not to place a lien. You did not. The National is right, this is between you and him. They did not hire you he did. Look at it this way, what if the money flowed the other way. He owed the bank for the property, he rented it to you. He would not tell the bank "I cannot pay you because the renter didn't pay me". The bank would eventually foreclose the property and you would be out. Well a lien does the same thing in reverse. You "own the right to lien", the sub is not paying you, you place the lien and the bank is out(satisfy the lien). The legal system is a beautiful thing, when it is used correctly. 

If you go small claims route, you do run the risk of delays, expenses, aggravation, etc. They have lawyers that know the "tricks of the trade" to file the right paperwork to confuse and trip you up. Filing a lien is cheaper and once filed, has to be satisfied to be sold. A title search at closing will disclose the lien and when the property sales you will receive payment at closing if not before. The seller or even the buyer may pay it because they want the property. But either way you get your money without court hassles.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

WAIT!!!!!! I just noticed, no one asked if this money is for one property or many?


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

rrogers66 said:


> From what you are saying the lien would be the best guarantee of getting your money. Even if you win in court with the sub, it doesn't guarantee a check. It just says a judge declare the money is owed. However, if you file a lien, the property cannot be sold until you are paid in full.
> 
> Basically, the sub probably signed an agreement that he agreed not to place a lien. You did not. The National is right, this is between you and him. They did not hire you he did. Look at it this way, what if the money flowed the other way. He owed the bank for the property, he rented it to you. He would not tell the bank "I cannot pay you because the renter didn't pay me". The bank would eventually foreclose the property and you would be out. Well a lien does the same thing in reverse. You "own the right to lien", the sub is not paying you, you place the lien and the bank is out(satisfy the lien). The legal system is a beautiful thing, when it is used correctly.
> 
> If you go small claims route, you do run the risk of delays, expenses, aggravation, etc. They have lawyers that know the "tricks of the trade" to file the right paperwork to confuse and trip you up. Filing a lien is cheaper and once filed, has to be satisfied to be sold. A title search at closing will disclose the lien and when the property sales you will receive payment at closing if not before. The seller or even the buyer may pay it because they want the property. But either way you get your money without court hassles.


You make it sound so easy.


Many properties


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

Now that changes things a little. Now you must file a lien on each property. Depending on how many, small claims fees may be cheaper. But the liens will "motivate" the National or Nationals owning the properties to direct the Delaware guy to pay. But with liens if you doesn't pay, the National will have to even though they do not owe you. The properties become unsalable until the liens are paid. Somebody has to pay them. A lien would be like a mortgage that is still owed on the properties. So you would hold the properties "hostage" until paid.


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

rrogers66 said:


> Now that changes things a little. Now you must file a lien on each property. Depending on how many, small claims fees may be cheaper. But the liens will "motivate" the National or Nationals owning the properties to direct the Delaware guy to pay. But with liens if you doesn't pay, the National will have to even though they do not owe you. The properties become unsalable until the liens are paid. Somebody has to pay them. A lien would be like a mortgage that is still owed on the properties. So you would hold the properties "hostage" until paid.


REMEMBER with a Lien too you get to bill foor YOUR time to 

1) go to courthouse and file 
2) milage
3) time to fill out 
4) money it is costing IE filing fees to set lien 
5) #1 through 4 AGAIN for filing RELEASE OF LIEN ONE AND ONLY ONCE PAID IN FULL
in the case of that 45 dollar lawn cut it just went to 150 LAwn services are not allowed to be liened for here but locks and "PHYSICAL" improvements are. and YOU HAVE A LIMITED TIME FRAME TO FILE 60 days since last at house here Get A MOVE ON BEST OF LUCK


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Reminder that no one yet on here has said they are an attorney,please remember that. What has been said should be at the very least based on past experience. Some states will not allow certain types of work to be liened. I have found however, other ways to skin that cat. It is common when special interest groups, or politicians cannot get their way thru congress or voting, that they try to legislate thru the courts. Doesn't matter if their cause isn't always constitutional; they just need the right judge at the right time. No, it isn't easy, but in order to get the grease you have to squeak.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Yes I understood that before I posted 
And that is what I am looking for 
Answers from experience


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Splinterpicker said:


> REMEMBER with a Lien too you get to bill foor YOUR time to
> 
> 1) go to courthouse and file
> 2) milage
> ...



That is my next question after where does small claims jurisdiction fall.
Can I have cost incurred from going the small claims route added to the unpaid balance if a judge sees it my way .


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Filings fees, summons, etc are considered "court costs" and acceptable. Other fees can also be included as long as a judge deems them reasonable.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)




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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

GTX63 said:


>


Funny stuff 

Would be outside of 60 days on some 
Thanks in large to the wait 30 days to see if I get paid 
And he will not provide a list of what he has paid for 
So I dont know which props to place liens on

Which if there is a sixty day limit then the above mentioned is in his favor


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

cutting grass said:


> Funny stuff
> 
> Would be outside of 60 days on some
> Thanks in large to the wait 30 days to see if I get paid
> ...


Go back and do another service IE an inspection that a neighbor called you and said tehy say a "suspicous" person inside. There you are still servicing the property


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## trash man (Nov 12, 2013)

I do work in de and was wondering if you might have that co. name,so i dont do any work for them? thanks


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

trash man said:


> I do work in de and was wondering if you might have that co. name,so i dont do any work for them? thanks


I do not want to say names just yet
But if I do have to take it to court I won't have problem letting others know who it is


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