# Debris



## CL&L (Mar 1, 2014)

This subject is a sort one for me. Most companies cap the CY debris amount. Example: a property I just looked at has approximately 30 CY of debris. I'm capped at $22.00 a yard. I can't haul it off for that or even rent a dumster. What's does everyone else do when this situation arises.


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

CL&L said:


> This subject is a sort one for me. Most companies cap the CY debris amount. Example: a property I just looked at has approximately 30 CY of debris. I'm capped at $22.00 a yard. I can't haul it off for that or even rent a dumster. What's does everyone else do when this situation arises.


 
If a company is dictating that you complete a job for less money than you need to turn a profit, I would say that particular company would not be a good one to partner with.

Sounds like you have a couple of options here:

1. Submit an overallowable estimate to remove/dispose of the debris
2. Walk away and save some money!


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Reassign


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

Throw it over the fence.....:whistling2:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

This one is simple. Don't work for a company if you can't make a profit.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

JDRM said:


> Throw it over the fence.....:whistling2:


Just had some good ol boy contractors underbid me to remove exterior debris only from a run down piece of property. Went over a few days later to complete a winterization and they had taken all of the debris from the yard and shoved it into the garage.
Maybe I should have worded my bid to say "relocate" instead of "remove" the debris.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

CL&L said:


> This subject is a sort one for me. Most companies cap the CY debris amount. Example: a property I just looked at has approximately 30 CY of debris. I'm capped at $22.00 a yard. I can't haul it off for that or even rent a dumster. What's does everyone else do when this situation arises.


Pass. Next.


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## allure9121 (Jan 26, 2014)

Run away

I work in ny and a 20 yard dumpster is $600 alone when I try to explain this to these companies they respond by saying we did studies in Florida and this is the formula that we came up with that's fair across the 
I explain the cost of doing business in Florida is much lower but they just don't get it


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

allure9121 said:


> Run away
> 
> I work in ny and a 20 yard dumpster is $600 alone when I try to explain this to these companies they respond by saying we did studies in Florida and this is the formula that we came up with that's fair across the
> I explain the cost of doing business in Florida is much lower but they just don't get it


Sounds like Cyprexx!


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## ADP LLC (May 15, 2012)

CL&L said:


> This subject is a sort one for me. Most companies cap the CY debris amount. Example: a property I just looked at has approximately 30 CY of debris. I'm capped at $22.00 a yard. I can't haul it off for that or even rent a dumster. What's does everyone else do when this situation arises.


Are you pairing the debris with other services to be provided at the property? If so, bid higher on the other items and inflate your CYD count slightly to make some profit. Just keep in mind that all your other items need to be approved to make the job a winner. If they try to beat you down on your pricing, then just walk. $22 a yard is not very good. But "you" can find ways to make it pay if you are creative and know how make reps do what you want by how you talk to them.


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

ADP LLC said:


> Are you pairing the debris with other services to be provided at the property? If so, bid higher on the other items and* inflate your CYD count slightly to make some profit*. Just keep in mind that all your other items need to be approved to make the job a winner. If they try to beat you down on your pricing, then just walk. $22 a yard is not very good. But *"you" can find ways to make it pay if you are creative* and know how make reps do what you want by how you talk to them.


:icon_rolleyes: What kind of an a*****e, comes on a forum and tells people to "inflate your CYD count slightly to make some profit" along with "you" can find ways to make it pay if you are creative"??? WTF?! And the moderators allow this crap, encouraging people to be dishonest?! If you can't make a profit doing your business, then you do something else, you DO NOT "inflate" or "get creative" with invoicing. This is nothing short of stealing. :whistling2:


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## HollandPPC (Sep 22, 2012)

I dont see it as being an a-hole. I always bump my cube count up a bit. As many times as you count cubes there is always extra ones laying around in the yard or in a attic. Its called CYA there buddy.


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

Anybody out there remove debris for $22 ought have their heads examined.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> :icon_rolleyes: What kind of an a*****e, comes on a forum and tells people to "inflate your CYD count slightly to make some profit" along with "you" can find ways to make it pay if you are creative"??? WTF?! And the moderators allow this crap, encouraging people to be dishonest?! If you can't make a profit doing your business, then you do something else, you DO NOT "inflate" or "get creative" with invoicing. This is nothing short of stealing. :whistling2:


Do not know you ,but I find it funny ( your above reply!) You want to talk about dishonest and stealing in the same sentence with most these nationals! really!!! First thing that comes to mind is Charge Backs, Reduces Cub counts (after the fact) and the rulers always changing! in deed the moderators allowing what crap!


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

allure9121 said:


> Run away
> 
> I work in ny and a 20 yard dumpster is $600 alone when I try to explain this to these companies they respond by saying we did studies in Florida and this is the formula that we came up with that's fair across the
> I explain the cost of doing business in Florida is much lower but they just don't get it


Holy hell that's expensive. Even in the cities I can get a 60 yarder dropped off and hauled away for like $650, less in the rural areas. 



JFMURFY said:


> Anybody out there remove debris for $22 ought have their heads examined.



I can make money at $22/yd as long as the $22 is flat. In the rural areas it costs me roughly $8/yd for household. The problem is most of the companies who like to pay $22/yd also like to nit pick until they owe you nothing.


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## allure9121 (Jan 26, 2014)

nurumkin said:


> Holy hell that's expensive. Even in the cities I can get a 60 yarder dropped off and hauled away for like $650, less in the rural areas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and the 20 yarder has a 3 ton limit u go over 3 tons and it is $95

i dont see how any contractor in NY (5 BOROS ) Can do flat fees


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> :icon_rolleyes: What kind of an a*****e, comes on a forum and tells people to "inflate your CYD count slightly to make some profit" along with "you" can find ways to make it pay if you are creative"??? WTF?! And the moderators allow this crap, encouraging people to be dishonest?! If you can't make a profit doing your business, then you do something else, you DO NOT "inflate" or "get creative" with invoicing. This is nothing short of stealing. :whistling2:


Wha. . .??
Did I do something here? I encouraged something??. . . 
I'm tired, I'm going back to sleep. . .

:icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:


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## DueyCheatem&HoweLLC (Feb 28, 2014)

The companies we stick with are reasonable.. If you find there is one that doesn't meet your needs as a company then politely bow out. We have had to. Your number one priority is to yourself, business. Always do the best you can in all things.. If that's not enough then you can find jobs else where... This is an industry where you have options


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

HollandPPC said:


> I dont see it as being an a-hole. I always bump my cube count up a bit. As many times as you count cubes there is always extra ones laying around in the yard or in a attic. Its called CYA there buddy.





STARBABY said:


> Do not know you ,but I find it funny ( your above reply!) You want to talk about dishonest and stealing in the same sentence with most these nationals! really!!! First thing that comes to mind is Charge Backs, Reduces Cub counts (after the fact) and the rulers always changing! in deed the moderators allowing what crap!


So, stealing is justified now by "CYA there buddy", WTF?

What I find amusing is that people seem to think that 2 wrongs makes a right, and that, in itself is...well, wrong.

Y'all bitch and moan about pricing but y'all are doing it to yourselves...How did this industry get so low? By the asshole idiots trying to cheat the system so they earn a profit. If I can't do a job, profitably, I don't cheat and steal by lying; I just don't do it. 

If I do a job for a predetermined price, and I get there and 'I' don't think the price is high enough, my business doesn't fabricate, pencil in, or anything else to "be creative" when it comes to invoicing. I invoice what was agreed upon. It is called running an honest business and how I can sleep at night.

What? You found 5 more cubes than you anticipated? Sucks to be you, learn how to bid properly then! 

Hey, it sucks to not be paid what you earned, but flip to the otherside of the coin and you it sucks to be overcharged if you are the prime. How would you like it if one of your subs got "creative" with the invoicing, or the old "CYA there buddy", would you? 

I don't know, I guess i am a dying breed, trying to do business correctly and not like a HACK, and yes, you can do great work, but, fudge the invoice, makes one a HACK!


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> So, stealing is justified now by "CYA there buddy", WTF?
> 
> What I find amusing is that people seem to think that 2 wrongs makes a right, and that, in itself is...well, wrong.
> 
> ...


I do agree with some of the things you are saying! There way to many hacks in these business now! I have been getting under bid and so many jobs lately it makes me sick! What really sucks is when I get to return to do another bid approval and see the half ass work they did!(hiding debris,ect)I`m not over bidding the jobs either , have been under bidding a small amount to get work and still dont!

as far as billing on CYD`s this industry is the only one when you give a estimate if there is less than bid(or after the fact photos don't justify,but bid photos did) and if I under bid it I eat it!


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## chelle33 (May 3, 2013)

sounds like SG


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## foothillsco (Nov 8, 2012)

ADP LLC said:


> bid higher on the other items and inflate your CYD count slightly to make some profit


I respectfully disagree with this strategy.

I worked for Cyprexx for 6 months in 2010. Their pricing was awful. CYs was low, everything else was decent. We overbid on everything to improve profits. We were constantly lying to them and having to remember our lies. They knew what was going on. For example, we do an eviction and evict 20 yds to the curb. They want after photos which is normal. But, they want us to wait 48 hours so looters can haul away some of it and pay us only what is left. So we just took 2 sets of after photos and date stamped them differently. Then they hire an inspector and catch us. I could go on an on with the games we played to make it profitable. It just got where we didn't like ourselves. We had reduced ourselves into people that lie to make a living. Really, that's it.

That is brain damage. When we fired Cyprexx, we swore off that bulll**** (but not booze, fast women and gamblin', j/k).

It's more of a philosophical choice. Your choosing to make things complicated and sideways when this should be straight up and honest. Like telling a lie, you tell it and then you start lying to support past lies.

Regarding CY. Someone says they fudge CY. WE ALL DO. I see this differently. I prefer to be on the high side of a calculated guess than the low. I don't however just UP the CYs to compensate for something else. When I have tried that, I just didn't win the bid is all. When I have just upped, they simply backcharged me 6 months later. Again, it's not not worth it.


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## foothillsco (Nov 8, 2012)

DATE: Wed 04/03/2013 3:30 pm


FROM: Pitasha Clay
[email protected]


TO: (my company)

(my email)

RE: CHECK DEDUCTION





A future payment check for services rendered will reflect a deduction for the following:


Record Number: 13-1805
Loan Number: 0213054927

Work Order Number: 236314413
Invoice Number: 236314413
Amount: $156.00

Reason: Debit charge---Rep, billed an excessive amount to remove exterior debris,
but HUD, modified the bid for a lower amount. HUD, denied the bid stating
the photos provided don't support the number of cubic yards reported.
However, Rep was notified of the new approval amount and it's on the
Estimate Summary bid to support approval.
Mortgagor Address: 10223 W LAKE DR
Mortg. City/State/Zip: LITTLETON , CO 80127




You have 2 business days to return this form and any additional documentation to either:

Fax: (817) 826-315
Email: [email protected]



Only written responses will be accepted.


Debits will be processed on the 3rd business day if no response is received.









1 Core Logic Way • Westlake, TX 76262
TEL 1-800-873-4532 • WWW.CORELOGIC.COM


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

foothillsco said:


> DATE: Wed 04/03/2013 3:30 pm
> 
> 
> FROM: Pitasha Clay
> ...



HUD don't adjust bids. Have your attorney request the adjustment from HUD. It's not available.....


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

foothillsco said:


> DATE: Wed 04/03/2013 3:30 pm
> 
> 
> FROM: Pitasha Clay
> ...


I've seen this email a 100 times over the years. If you are going to be in this industry expect to lose 20% each year to chargebacks and BS.


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## UnitedFieldInspections (Dec 20, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> I do agree with some of the things you are saying! There way to many hacks in these business now! I have been getting under bid and so many jobs lately it makes me sick! What really sucks is when I get to return to do another bid approval and see the half ass work they did!(hiding debris,ect)I`m not over bidding the jobs either , have been under bidding a small amount to get work and still dont!
> 
> as far as billing on CYD`s this industry is the only one when you give a estimate if there is less than bid(or after the fact photos don't justify,but bid photos did) and if I under bid it I eat it!


The Way we work on every bid not just cys,is if it can be bone for the price they pay if we have any doubt in our minds we cant make any money we walk away and let the next guy work for nothing.Here is a prime example of what i'm talking about,We got a few jobs to bid for snow removal.We bid the allowable,and i stress to the nationals we are not guys who show up in Honda with a shovel or a snow blower in the hatch and do a hack job.We have Trucks with insurance,Fuel cost,Equipment(Plow) & Driver Cost.If $50.00 PLUS there discount isn't cheap enough to plow the driveway and clear walks etc then its not worth our time.I do some inspections from time to time and here is what i saw today.We Bid 50.00 and didn't get the job.You get what you pay for.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Where are the after pics?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

foothillsco said:


> Regarding CY. Someone says they fudge CY. WE ALL DO. I see this differently. I prefer to be on the high side of a calculated guess than the low.


I'm not sure how much you are fudging your numbers, but let me put this issue in a little different light. 
Say you want to completely drywall and carpet your house. Won't matter if it is me or any other reputable flooring and sheet rock company; when I submit a bid to you to complete the work, I automatically figure 10% for waste. You ever walk thru a brand new house and notice the remnants, the runners, the door mats? I bid that overage so I don't have to eat any loss, and so I don't have to go back to the homeowner hat in hand asking for more money. The extras can be used to piece in sections later that get ruined. My debris bids also contain about 10% above my initial count. Is that lying? Nope. I'm not ripping anyone off. I'm making sure that I'm covered against normal and minor oversights. The painter bills for 45 gallons of interior latex, but he only used 39. Doesn't make him a thief, it just explains why you have so many cans of that crap at your trashouts.
In this case, the only clients who consistently expects perfection are the ones who aren't paying for it.


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

Resize that picture!!!


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

UnitedFieldInspections said:


> The Way we work on every bid not just cys,is if it can be bone for the price they pay if we have any doubt in our minds we cant make any money we walk away and let the next guy work for nothing.Here is a prime example of what i'm talking about,We got a few jobs to bid for snow removal.We bid the allowable,and i stress to the nationals we are not guys who show up in Honda with a shovel or a snow blower in the hatch and do a hack job.We have Trucks with insurance,Fuel cost,Equipment(Plow) & Driver Cost.If $50.00 PLUS there discount isn't cheap enough to plow the driveway and clear walks etc then its not worth our time.I do some inspections from time to time and here is what i saw today.We Bid 50.00 and didn't get the job.You get what you pay for.


Quality is not their concern. ALL they care about is coverage and if they can keep it within the allowable the numbers work. The guy doing the Hack job in the Honda is making enough at $50.00 to be ok and the national gets the coverage they want for the price they want to pay. That's win win.

It's when the guy in the Honda buys a truck with a blade that he starts to lose money.


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

It is very simple. You have to make a profit to stay in business. The majority of Nationals will agree...but in practice, the check book is shifted away from an honest contractor to make a buck.


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