# why do people not listen when we tell them not to get in this biz?



## Craigslist Hack

Over and over people ask me how to get in this business, and I advise them against it. Then they ask who is good to work for and I tell them no one. 

They do it anyway then complain about the hardship they are experiencing. 

People we are not trying to protect our nest egg. If it was worth doing I would advise everyone to jump in. The thing is it sucks!


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## rrogers66

Hack,

I ask because you are a veteran to the industry. I know that the $$$$ is not what it was. But why are you and others still in it if there is no money. 

I ask because I am in Florida. Is it the same here as where you are? Is there more or less opportunity here or there? 

I ask because I don't know. Do you have any positive comment to make about the industry? Certainly something keeps you hanging on. Are you a glutten for punishment?

I ask because I want to know. I am a firm believer there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth. I respect the forum and heed its comments. But I have to ask, is the where the nay sayers hang out or does anyone have positive advice other than RUN!!!??? I read about new rules and procedures. I have to wonder based on the nature of them have companies given the National and Regionals cause to move in this direction? Is this a decent industry corrupted by the few derelicts? Is this a decent industry where companies have stuck it to these regionals and nationals in the past so now they stick it back and the tennis match goes back and forth?

I ask because I don't believe. I have trouble believing all National and Regionals rip off everybody. I also have trouble believe that every vendor is a victim. Furthermore, I have trouble believing every vendor is honest and forthright with the Nationals and Regionals. If this is true why not collectively pick one day in the next legislative session and hit every congressman for each area on the same day with these issues. Hundreds hitting all at once are sure to get notice.

I understand you are against anyone entering the industry. Certainly there are Nationals and Regionals to work for and not work for. So why not be a chap and guide those new toward the right ones and away from the wrong ones.

I mean no disrespect, I just want answer, guidance and advice.


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## mtmtnman

The majority of us veterans are slowly stepping away. While most of us like the work, We despise the bullcrap created by the nationals. This is brought on by the nationals bidding so low that most legitimate established companies can no longer justify staying in the business much less try to break in from the bottom. I was 100% in from 2009 to 2011. I have slowly backed away since then and am at about 30% of my business in this now. As my good clients turn bad or go under due to the big nationals underbidding them i will back away even more. I will likely be out by next year at this time....................................


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## rrogers66

I am in Florida. I run a handyman/cleaning business. We do lawncare/landscape services as well. We keep seeing posts and ads for vendors in our area. I know that there is a need. I also know that there has to be enough meat on the bone to pay the fuel bill. I am just trying to get a feel for what is going on in the industry. I have HUD price sheet. The prices seem fair for the services. I have a list of the regionals for the southeast. Why the big difference in the prices I see and what I see on here being offered?


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## JDRM

You HAVE to get in direct with broker (bank) to get HUD pricing, and that is not guaranteed either.

The Nationals go direct to bank, take their cut, then regionals, etc., then you get whats left.:thumbsup:


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## rrogers66

When applying with the National and Regionals Discount %?? Does that mean of what I invoice or off HUD Guidelines?


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## JDRM

Nats and regionals are good for practice if you can do it without going broke. You can make some good $ going direct with Broker, but you better know what your talking about, and be licensed in most states.


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## JDRM

rrogers66 said:


> When applying with the National and Regionals Discount %?? Does that mean of what I invoice or off HUD Guidelines?


They all have different pricing, they have pricing for you to agree to. Some take 20% off HUD, some take 30%, etc.

Then you have the regionals who get that pricing, and try to sub that out, and take another 20% for pushing paper.


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## rrogers66

I am only interested in my county and the neighboring four here in Florida. Licensing in another issue. Florida will allow you to do alot without a license. Winterizations are a no go. No Plumbing or electrical work.


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## rrogers66

Does Florida even require winterizations?


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## JDRM

I do business in florida, and I agree, you can basically do all work except GC , or specialty trades, with a business license for $35, under property maint. We have never done a wint in florida.


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## ADP LLC

Jump in. You'll make money. :thumbsup:


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## BamaPPC

rrogers66 said:


> Hack,
> 
> I ask because I don't know. Do you have any positive comment to make about the industry? Certainly something keeps you hanging on. Are you a glutten for punishment?
> 
> I ask because I want to know. I am a firm believer there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth. I respect the forum and heed its comments.
> 
> I ask because I don't believe. I have trouble believing all National and Regionals rip off everybody. I also have trouble believe that every vendor is a victim. Furthermore, I have trouble believing every vendor is honest and forthright with the Nationals and Regionals. If this is true why not collectively pick one day in the next legislative session and hit every congressman for each area on the same day with these issues. Hundreds hitting all at once are sure to get notice.
> 
> I understand you are against anyone entering the industry. Certainly there are Nationals and Regionals to work for and not work for. So why not be a chap and guide those new toward the right ones and away from the wrong ones.
> 
> I mean no disrespect, I just want answer, guidance and advice.


rrogers - you ask good questions, and make some good points.

While the prevailing wisdom around this forum is gloom and doom about the PPI industry, I have a more tempered opinion. This industry is not all Milk & Honey, all clouds do not have a silver lining (pick your cliche), but there are some pretty nice sunshiny days. There are good and bad people. Good and bad companies. Good and bad contractors.

It's your choice on how you want to view the world. I taught my children to take responsibility for their own attitude. I never accepted "She hit me first" as an excuse for why one child hit the other. What someone else does to you is not an excuse to act a certain way. Take ownership of your actions. If you hit someone, and then someone asks you why you did it - the only valid reason is because you wanted to hit them. Then if you have extenuating circumstance - like self defense - then you may have cause.

I tell you that story to make a point about how you view this industry. Take owner ship of your decisions. Educate yourself - which you are doing by visiting this forum. Then make your own decision based on the information you collect. I too believe that some (even a small percentage) of the contractors that complain on here may have brought some of it on themselves. BUT, I also know that some of the rules we are forced to operate under, put us in a postion to be taken advantage of. Read your contractor agreement carefully. That endemity clause...bad news, puts every contractor that signs it in a position to be sued for anything even if they had nothing to do with the charges being brought by the homeowner. Just because you cut the grass at the property.

Case in point - I recently had to work with some lawyers over a property I haven't set foot on in two years. The bank jumped the gun and had us remove exterior debris before the property forclosed. Homeowner had been trying to work out a modified loan. Sees his trash has been removed (old tires, tree limb pile, an above ground pool that had no liner) nothing that had any value. We even left the plastic lawn chairs. But, since we were there, the lawyer says we stole his stuff. But, the real reason for the suit is to get the bank to negotiate on his loan. But its my insurance that is contacted to pay the defense attorneys. I cried BS very loudly. I'm not paying $5K deductible because he's mad at his mortgage company.

Stuff like this does happen. Nationals negotiate away our paychecks to land the banks business. They add more work onto the order for the same pay. They require more and more from the contractor without adequate compensation for those services.

This is the game. Know the rules before playing. Then decide if you want to play. People play football all the time. They know going in that they will be hit hard, knocked down, stepped on, be hurt, ect. Yet they still play. Rodeo cowboy still gets back on that bull. They know the game, understand the rules and still choose to play. 

If you do your homework and fully understand the rules...you can do OK in the PPI. If you choose not to play by the rules...you will fail. I look at it like a NASCAR crew chief. You play by the rules, but you look for gray areas or holes in the rules, and that's where you make your money. Don't be afraid to bid large amounts for things they have no allowables for. (i.e. - removing dead standing trees as safety hazards - don't be timid)

That's my nickles worth.


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## ADP LLC

BamaPPC said:


> You play by the rules, but you look for gray areas or holes in the rules, and that's where you make your money. Don't be afraid to bid large amounts for things they have no allowables for. (i.e. - removing dead standing trees as safety hazards - don't be timid)
> 
> That's my nickles worth.


It is a game. And that is exactly how we play to win.


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## Craigslist Hack

ADP LLC said:


> It is a game. And that is exactly how we play to win.



This why we now have to attach cost estimators, and we get 20 calls a day stating pictures do not justify the work needed as over the allowable please return to the property and perform the work for the allowable.:whistling2:


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## SwiftRes

BamaPPC said:


> rrogers - you ask good questions, and make some good points.
> 
> While the prevailing wisdom around this forum is gloom and doom about the PPI industry, I have a more tempered opinion. This industry is not all Milk & Honey, all clouds do not have a silver lining (pick your cliche), but there are some pretty nice sunshiny days. There are good and bad people. Good and bad companies. Good and bad contractors.
> 
> It's your choice on how you want to view the world. I taught my children to take responsibility for their own attitude. I never accepted "She hit me first" as an excuse for why one child hit the other. What someone else does to you is not an excuse to act a certain way. Take ownership of your actions. If you hit someone, and then someone asks you why you did it - the only valid reason is because you wanted to hit them. Then if you have extenuating circumstance - like self defense - then you may have cause.
> 
> I tell you that story to make a point about how you view this industry. Take owner ship of your decisions. Educate yourself - which you are doing by visiting this forum. Then make your own decision based on the information you collect. I too believe that some (even a small percentage) of the contractors that complain on here may have brought some of it on themselves. BUT, I also know that some of the rules we are forced to operate under, put us in a postion to be taken advantage of. Read your contractor agreement carefully. That endemity clause...bad news, puts every contractor that signs it in a position to be sued for anything even if they had nothing to do with the charges being brought by the homeowner. Just because you cut the grass at the property.
> 
> Case in point - I recently had to work with some lawyers over a property I haven't set foot on in two years. The bank jumped the gun and had us remove exterior debris before the property forclosed. Homeowner had been trying to work out a modified loan. Sees his trash has been removed (old tires, tree limb pile, an above ground pool that had no liner) nothing that had any value. We even left the plastic lawn chairs. But, since we were there, the lawyer says we stole his stuff. But, the real reason for the suit is to get the bank to negotiate on his loan. But its my insurance that is contacted to pay the defense attorneys. I cried BS very loudly. I'm not paying $5K deductible because he's mad at his mortgage company.
> 
> Stuff like this does happen. Nationals negotiate away our paychecks to land the banks business. They add more work onto the order for the same pay. They require more and more from the contractor without adequate compensation for those services.
> 
> This is the game. Know the rules before playing. Then decide if you want to play. People play football all the time. They know going in that they will be hit hard, knocked down, stepped on, be hurt, ect. Yet they still play. Rodeo cowboy still gets back on that bull. They know the game, understand the rules and still choose to play.
> 
> If you do your homework and fully understand the rules...you can do OK in the PPI. If you choose not to play by the rules...you will fail. I look at it like a NASCAR crew chief. You play by the rules, but you look for gray areas or holes in the rules, and that's where you make your money. Don't be afraid to bid large amounts for things they have no allowables for. (i.e. - removing dead standing trees as safety hazards - don't be timid)
> 
> That's my nickles worth.


Bama, on that note of national jumping the gun(and probably the same one), I just got an 80cyd bid approval but stopped to check assessor and it hasn't been foreclosed on yet, nor is it scheduled to for at least three months. I emailed them this info and got an OOPS! Our bad, please cancel. I don't believe they did it on purpose, probably a new employee screwed up, but an example of where you can get get in a bad situation if you do this work without knowing how the foreclosure process works. 

If you want to do this work in your area take the time to understand how foreclosures work in your area, pre and post sale, what the sheriff sale is, any redemption period in your state, etc. Don't assume the person giving you the work has done their due diligence


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## Splinterpicker

mtmtnman said:


> The majority of us veterans are slowly stepping away. While most of us like the work, We despise the bullcrap created by the nationals. This is brought on by the nationals bidding so low that most legitimate established companies can no longer justify staying in the business much less try to break in from the bottom. I was 100% in from 2009 to 2011. I have slowly backed away since then and am at about 30% of my business in this now. As my good clients turn bad or go under due to the big nationals underbidding them i will back away even more. I will likely be out by next year at this time....................................


I am down to 1 client and have taken a state job. I have been in this NOW cluster fornication of an industry for 16 years. Why am I stepping out too ?? The nationals are NOT REPEAT NOT interested in YOU or YOU bottom line. It is ALL REPEAT ALL about them and making their shareholders happy or as in the case of FAS selling you short and selling their company because it is tanking. There is ALWAYS someomne who will do the job CHEAPER. Easiest way to keep your sanity STAY OUT of the ARENA and work for realtors. Get you foot in the door and start to raise your prices, excellent turn times, DON't lie, and suck it up. I have done this long enough that I can do a clean out ansd janit quickly and easily by my self. I have the knowledge and skills and am CHOOSING not to use them! Less stress is priceless . IF you are going to getinto this for a national BE SMART AND BECOME A LLC. If you are a sole properitor you are begging for EVERYTHING YOU OWN to vanish on hte first law suit. AN LLC protects your PERSONAL assetts from such exposure. BEST move I EVER MADE !


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## Craigslist Hack

I ask because you are a veteran to the industry. I know that the $$$$ is not what it was. But why are you and others still in it if there is no money. Many of us are still here because our exit strategy is not complete. In my case I am not comfortable taking on a long winter with just my realtor clients and the occasional construction job. I am not saying the money is so much worse, there are a million ways they screw us now. That $75.00 wint now requires 15 more steps and pics than it did 2 years ago. Every toilet has to be cleaned, sinks, tubs, showers. Then your processor has to bid every thing that could possibly be done to the property or you hvae to repair it at your own expense.

so let's break it down= $75.00 for the wint
The national takes 25% leaving you= $56.25
You have to pay your crew at least= $40.00 (which isn't enough)
That leaves= $16.25 if the processor does a good job on the computer and bids everything out accordingly she spends an hour give or take so subtract $10.00 from your $16.25 leaving= $6.25

For $6.25 you need to pay for background checks, office overhead, E&O insurance, tools and equipment, and make a profit.

God forbid there be a plumbing break and you can't wint! Then you get a trip charge and still have to do all of the bidding and you end up in the negative. We used to be able to make that money back by hitting a homerun on the plumbing repair but now we are required to use a cost estimator limiting our profit and killing the industry.

I ask because I am in Florida. Is it the same here as where you are? Is there more or less opportunity here or there? There is more opportunity in Florida. The problem with Florida is the big dogs have locked down all the nationals so all that is left is crap. All those ads you see looking for work are not there because there is a need. They are there because the last guy got tired of getting screwed. If you have a good job to offer in this present economy it fills quickly. When a company offers $10.00 for a grass cut they have to place a lot of ads before they find a sucker. Don't forget you have to wait 45 days for that $10.00 and if you miss a street sign pic they won't pay you.

I ask because I don't know. Do you have any positive comment to make about the industry? About the industry? NO! I like the work but hate the BS. Certainly something keeps you hanging on. An uncertain exit strategy and employees that need to get through winter keep me hanging on. If it were just me I would have bailed months ago. Are you a glutten for punishment? I don't know if I am a glutten for punishment I do know I stayed in a relationship with the wrong girl way to long once. This feels JUST like that did.

I ask because I want to know. I am a firm believer there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth. I respect the forum and heed its comments. But I have to ask, is the where the nay sayers hang out or does anyone have positive advice other than RUN!!!??? NO one that has more than 5 years experience would tell you to get started in this business unless they didn't like you. It's nearly impossible to make a living and getting harder everyday. This isn't like construction where prices fall and you have to get more competitive. This is a whole different game. Yes prices fall! Then QC triples! Then insurance requirements double along with your premiums! Then you have to have TWICE the office staff just to process the same $50.00 order. Then you have to pay for background checks on all of you contractors. Then a mortgagor shows up and sues you for throwing away their property and you have to pay attorney fees. Do you have a business continuation plan? A media response plan? A secure server with every job you have ever done backed up? A backup generator for the entire office so that if your area experiences a natural disaster you can still service your clients? What are your cash reserves, and credit lines? What type of cloud backup system do you use? Who will run the business if you are incapacitated somehow? Field and Office employee manuals and procedural guidelines? I read about new rules and procedures. I have to wonder based on the nature of them have companies given the National and Regionals cause to move in this direction? It's a combination of everybody on that issue. Rules don't get made unless there is a need for them. Is this a decent industry corrupted by the few derelicts? NO! ALL of the regionals answer to nationals that answer to HUD, VA, FANNIE, FREDDIE, FHA, or someone. The bull**** comes from them which why there can never be a good national.  Is this a decent industry where companies have stuck it to these regionals and nationals in the past so now they stick it back and the tennis match goes back and forth? Yes that has happened.

I ask because I don't believe. You should believe but if your not going to why ask? I have trouble believing all National and Regionals rip off everybody. They don't eventually they will be forced to it's the industry. I also have trouble believe that every vendor is a victim. Many of these guys are crooks. Furthermore, I have trouble believing every vendor is honest and forthright with the Nationals and Regionals. If this is true why not collectively pick one day in the next legislative session and hit every congressman for each area on the same day with these issues. Hundreds hitting all at once are sure to get notice. Good idea

I understand you are against anyone entering the industry. Certainly there are Nationals and Regionals to work for and not work for. I know a couple of decent ones but they have still screwed me. They had to. So why not be a chap and guide those new toward the right ones and away from the wrong ones. I already did that I said stay away far far away!


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## Cleanupman

As more and more people start talking on a national level thing will change.
I do consultations...if i got a quarter for every time I heard...
I'm afraid they will cut me off...or I wont get any more work
The biggest issue in the industry is not that everyone is getting ripped off...
It is the issue presented in one of my latets blog posts...
"Industry White Paper: Order Mills and the Property Preservation Industry (PPI) A Perspective From The Contractors"

The industry has been oversaturated with "Contractors"...a misnomer... as 75% of the people that have been put in play have been punching a time clock all their lives.
What happened the first time you received a check and you thought it was incorrect??? You went to your boss and jumped up and down and got results...
That doesn't work in the business world. Just because someone has instructed one on how to obtain a business license and insurance does not make said person a business person...perhaps legally, but the reality is that they have no clue what Business 101 is (Shameless self promotion...I have packages available to assist those in need). 

There is a movement in the industry....some of the more technological savvy people are setting up call-in format talk shows to bring exposure to the plight of the BOTG....
What is frustrating is that not one individual from the organizations that claim to "advocate" for the BOTG have asked to participate....the individuals that are doing this are just like myself..feed up with the BS and they are saying and doing something
Look here
For information for the show by Cubic Yard on the 29th....

I like the idea of everyone calling or contacting the congress on one day that is even better than my idea of everyone declaring one day an off day!!!!
However I think I want to start a National BOTG PPI Holiday....what day would be good?????


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## rrogers66

Cleanup man:

The problem with a "day off" is that there really is no day off. Like with the fuel boycotts you here about. Nobody buy gas on May 2nd. The problem is extra is bought on May 1st and May 3rd. So the fuel still gets bought. The field guys cannot take enough days off to impact the Nationals. Unless everyone in the industry stops for weeks at the same time. But there will always be that set of contractors too broke or whatever to afford the "strike".


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## Craigslist Hack

Senior skip day at my high school was a great time. Bon fires and babes on the beach. All it accomplished was a few unwanted pregnancies and some gnarly hangovers. 

We as an industry have to stop all the extras. We are being paid to do a winterization, grass cut, trash out, etc. We aren't being paid for all of the other stuff mostly the endless hours in front of a computer. 

If we are going to continue to provide these services we need to be compensated for everything we do not JUST the manual labor. Then the guy doing the work can get a decent wage, the office staff will be paid properly, and the owners can net a profit.


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## BamaPPC

Craigslist Hack said:


> Are you a glutten for punishment? I don't know if I am a glutten for punishment I do know I stayed in a relationship with the wrong girl way to long once. This feels JUST like that did.


Hadn't thought of it that way before, but you are exactly right. It feels like being in a relationship with a beautiful woman you wish would go away. LOL

You just can't bring yourself to tell her to go away, or make yourself leave. Been there. 

I think Marty Stuart said it right - 

"I give my heart and soul to you
That's all I really know to do
If it's a crying shame, there's just myself to blame
Sometimes the pleasure's worth the pain
You cut me deep with that first kiss
Your sweet taste I could not resist
You were too wild to tame
I loved you just the same
Sometimes the pleasure's worth the pain..."

Read more: Stuart Marty - Sometimes The Pleasure's Worth The Pain Lyrics | MetroLyrics


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## Craigslist Hack

BamaPPC said:


> Hadn't thought of it that way before, but you are exactly right. It feels like being in a relationship with a beautiful woman you wish would go away. LOL
> 
> You just can't bring yourself to tell her to go away, or make yourself leave. Been there.
> 
> I think Marty Stuart said it right -
> 
> "I give my heart and soul to you
> That's all I really know to do
> If it's a crying shame, there's just myself to blame
> Sometimes the pleasure's worth the pain
> You cut me deep with that first kiss
> Your sweet taste I could not resist
> You were too wild to tame
> I loved you just the same
> Sometimes the pleasure's worth the pain..."
> 
> Read more: Stuart Marty - Sometimes The Pleasure's Worth The Pain Lyrics | MetroLyrics


^^^^^^^^^^^^this guy gets it! Great post man!^^^^^^^^^👍


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## JFMURFY

ADP LLC said:


> It is a game. And that is exactly how we play to win.


Ditto... be better at the game...simple.


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## Craigslist Hack

JFMURFY said:


> Ditto... be better at the game...simple.


My processors and contractors do not find this to be a game. This is their lives and we have little to no say about rule changes and QC requirements. 

When I sell a construction job I only sell the work I want to do. I write the rules in the contract. Here we are being FORCED to trim bushes for $30.00. It's not right and it needs changed.


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## JDRM

Over allowable, trim minimal for $30, bid the rest:thumbsup:


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## Craigslist Hack

JDRM said:


> Over allowable, trim minimal for $30, bid the rest:thumbsup:


I report anything larger than a Rose bush as over the allowable. We don't trim bushes for $30.00. I constantly struggle with clients on this issue. We will not trim bushes for $30.00. 

Just one of my daily battles. Add this to the list.


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## JDRM

I pull the loppers out for 5 mins, cut something, and bill $30, bid the rest


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## STARBABY

Craigslist Hack said:


> I report anything larger than a Rose bush as over the allowable. We don't trim bushes for $30.00. I constantly struggle with clients on this issue. We will not trim bushes for $30.00.
> 
> Just one of my daily battles. Add this to the list.


five brothers are big on cutting off house and not shaping the bushes


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## mtmtnman

I have it from a VERY good source on the backside that a lot if not all of these companies jack up the bids before they are submitted to HUD, Fannie, Freddie Ect. For example if your really are dumb enough to trim & haul a whole pickup load of clippings from a trimming job for $30, Fannie, Freddie, Hud might see an invoice for $100-$120 as an over-allowable. ($100-$120 is about what a pickup load of shrubs should go for) These companies margins are MUCH MORE that the 20-25% they take from you. Hell i had a trashout approval e-mailed to me last year and attached was an e-mail thread to the client. They had nearly DOUBLED my Cu-Yd amount but i was not getting the benefit of it, They where!!!


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## STARBABY

mtmtnman said:


> I have it from a VERY good source on the backside that a lot if not all of these companies jack up the bids before they are submitted to HUD, Fannie, Freddie Ect. For example if your really are dumb enough to trim & haul a whole pickup load of clippings from a trimming job for $30, Fannie, Freddie, Hud might see an invoice for $100-$120 as an over-allowable. ($100-$120 is about what a pickup load of shrubs should go for) These companies margins are MUCH MORE that the 20-25% they take from you. Hell i had a trashout approval e-mailed to me last year and attached was an e-mail thread to the client. They had nearly DOUBLED my Cu-Yd amount but i was not getting the benefit of it, They where!!!


Have seen this with Cypress! My bid was $600 was talking too realtor and he asked me about being $950


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## Gypsos

STARBABY said:


> Have seen this with Cypress! My bid was $600 was talking too realtor and he asked me about being $950


Same experience here. Cyprexx typical markup is 50% to 60% of the price we bid to them.


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## Craigslist Hack

JDRM said:


> I pull the loppers out for 5 mins, cut something, and bill $30, bid the rest


This solution may work for you but my clients would tell us to go back and finish the job for the 30. It seems like anytime we do a partial job they hold our money hostage until we finish the whole work order. 

We shouldn't HAVE to trim shrubs unless they are paying us what we want. I run my business and I should be able to pick the jobs I want and set my own pricing.


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## foothillsco

Ive noticed a major uptick in the servicers need us more than ever. I'm constantly getting asked to get work.

I've decided that Corelogic, SG, MCS etc isn't the problem. I think the problem is Wells Fargo. I think they drive the train on all the ills of what I have experienced. I don't have much experience with Chase or BOA so can't comment on them.

I don't work for anyone that services WF. I have about 10 small clients in P&P and their revenue is about 4k per month, which sucks.

I also have a repair client that brings in about 30k per month which is much better.


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## GTX63

I can't go along with you on that. Never had any issues with WF. We have a couple rehabs with them (thru the broker) right now. We'll get paid within 10 days of completion. No endless paperwork, no followups, etc. I cannot say that about the Nats you listed.


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> I can't go along with you on that. Never had any issues with WF. We have a couple rehabs with them (thru the broker) right now. We'll get paid within 10 days of completion. No endless paperwork, no followups, etc. I cannot say that about the Nats you listed.


I think it has to do with the type of work. Not sure exactly but that is my .02.


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## GTX63

I think there have been some cases when the Nationals use Wells Fargo as the bad cop just as they will tell you "HUD adjusted your bid".


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> I think there have been some cases when the Nationals use Wells Fargo as the bad cop just as they will tell you "HUD adjusted your bid".


NO WAY!!! That would never happen!:whistling2:


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## GTX63

Fng.


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## foothillsco

Craigslist Hack said:


> I think it has to do with the type of work. Not sure exactly but that is my .02.


I agree on this statement.

When we have done rehab work, via a broker, everything has always been smooth.

When we have done P&P work, via a national, eventually there is a big problem.

I'm saying, I'm not going to do P&P work for WF.


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## UnitedFieldInspections

I had a buddy of mine (Landscaper) who wanted to get in the business awhile back.I advised him it was a no go!Long story short he did anyway and back to cutting residential lawns lol.Its a tough business.


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## Craigslist Hack

Just got a work order from a national where we did an initial secure and the guy didn't take very good pics. He turned in poor measurements and the bid got approved for 40sqft of mold in basement. Long story longer that guy is no longer with the company and I will be treating and drylocking an entire basement at my own expense. 

The best part is I held pay on the guy because he quit suddenly and I saw some of his wints sucked. When I backcharge him for the cost of this little project per the terms of our subcontractor agreement for him not doing his job correctly he will be furious. Then he goes to the Internet and the BBB and tells everyone we are scammers etc. When in fact he is just a crappy contractor who couldn't handle anything more complex than a grass cut.


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## PropPresPro

People obviously are drawn to this line of work when they see the extravagant, luxurious, carefree lifestyle we all lead :whistling2:


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## GTX63

PropPresPro wrote "People obviously are drawn to this line of work when they see the extravagant, luxurious, carefree lifestyle we all lead" :whistling2: 

Welcome to my nightmare....


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## SagesServices

I was raised up in the construction trades. For many years if you worked hard and cared about doing it correctly within reason it was a given anyone could make a decent living.

That is not so anymore, even large companies are taking work at cost or less just to retain skilled employees hoping to get a 3 to 5% profit in the future when things are better.

This country is falling so fast into hyper inflation that we will probably see the end to all private banks. They are inflating the dollar by a claimed 120 billion per month, so there is only so much time left till it hits bottom.

I don't blame the banks, I blame so called progressive governments. One thing is for certain, once the politicians run out of other peoples money and property, they will just grow government into the only employer.

Then if they have enough time left before anarchy they will go back to a limited government. 

As for the business, I won't pay the banks to work so, I haven't done any in a while for them. Its tough out there, but I rather get paid for my labor.


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## STARBABY

GTX63 said:


> PropPresPro wrote "People obviously are drawn to this line of work when they see the extravagant, luxurious, carefree lifestyle we all lead" :whistling2:
> 
> Welcome to my nightmare....


grass cut please!


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## BamaPPC

GTX63 said:


> PropPresPro wrote "People obviously are drawn to this line of work when they see the extravagant, luxurious, carefree lifestyle we all lead" :whistling2:
> 
> Welcome to my nightmare....


Yeah, GC and rake all those leave up will ya...$2 a bag!


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## Craigslist Hack

BamaPPC said:


> Yeah, GC and rake all those leave up will ya...$2 a bag!


I have never raked a single leaf. True story. 

I will never rake a single leaf. True story.


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## STARBABY

Craigslist Hack said:


> I have never raked a single leaf. True story.
> 
> I will never rake a single leaf. True story.


Same here


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## GTX63

When I get home, the last thing I want to do is work....


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## david

*hi*

ive been in the business 8 years and worked for most the nationals,still dont know the good ones newbies talk about to go with.you survive not thrive the majority of us anyway.


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## BPWY

rrogers66 said:


> Hack,
> 
> I ask because you are a veteran to the industry. I know that the $$$$ is not what it was. But why are you and others still in it if there is no money.
> 
> I put my money where my mouth is and left the industry.
> 
> I ask because I am in Florida. Is it the same here as where you are? Is there more or less opportunity here or there?
> 
> I ask because I don't know. Do you have any positive comment to make about the industry? Certainly something keeps you hanging on. Are you a glutten for punishment?
> 
> I ask because I want to know. I am a firm believer there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth. I respect the forum and heed its comments. But I have to ask, is the where the nay sayers hang out or does anyone have positive advice other than RUN!!!??? I read about new rules and procedures. I have to wonder based on the nature of them have companies given the National and Regionals cause to move in this direction? Is this a decent industry corrupted by the few derelicts? Is this a decent industry where companies have stuck it to these regionals and nationals in the past so now they stick it back and the tennis match goes back and forth?
> 
> I ask because I don't believe. I have trouble believing all National and Regionals rip off everybody. For the most part they all are. Just waiting for the right time to stick it to some one. I also have trouble believe that every vendor is a victim. Furthermore, I have trouble believing every vendor is honest and forthright with the Nationals and Regionals. They aren't and few folks would try to claim they are. If this is true why not collectively pick one day in the next legislative session and hit every congressman for each area on the same day with these issues. Hundreds hitting all at once are sure to get notice.
> 
> I understand you are against anyone entering the industry. Certainly there are Nationals and Regionals to work for and not work for. So why not be a chap and guide those new toward the right ones and away from the wrong ones.
> 
> I mean no disrespect, I just want answer, guidance and advice.





I hope I answered some of your questions. In my opinion the industry is designed to have a massive turn over of FNGs and newbs. Its in the company's best interests for them to make a lot of mistakes so they can deny payments. 
Once the newb goes broke or wises up they move on and the next sheep moves up to the slaughtering line.

Most if not all of the veterans still in the industry have found a sweet spot that is rarely available to newbs. They are in with realtors, or do a lot of rehab stuff etc and are not relying on solely P&P to keep the lights on.


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## Gypsos

BPWY said:


> I hope I answered some of your questions. In my opinion the industry is designed to have a massive turn over of FNGs and newbs. Its in the company's best interests for them to make a lot of mistakes so they can deny payments.
> Once the newb goes broke or wises up they move on and the next sheep moves up to the slaughtering line.
> 
> Most if not all of the veterans still in the industry have found a sweet spot that is rarely available to newbs. They are in with realtors, or do a lot of rehab stuff etc and are not relying on solely P&P to keep the lights on.


This is exactly the direction we are moving in. We are making P&P a part of the overall business. A small part. Small enough that we can kiss it goodbye and not have to worry about loosing that source of income. 

It takes time and perseverance in order to get in with brokers and work direct for banks because you must have a reputation that is good. Otherwise you are just another flash in the pan and they do not have time for you. 

For us it was hitting the four year mark in business that did it. We are no longer are the new guys begging for work. People know we get it done right the first time and now we have brokers recommending us to other brokers.


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## JDRM

Same here, after scratching nat after nat off the list, over 10 yrs, we are down to 3. Have 2 meetings with brokers next week, by referral, just counting down the days we can rely on several local brokers! :thumbsup:


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## Craigslist Hack

I had a great meeting with a broker this week and she was pointing out new business opportunities that I was not aware of. She also explained some of nuances of the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae programs that I can use to my advantage. 

It was the best meeting I have had in a while.


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## bigdaddy

This CAN'T be true!!

I have been telling people on here to contact local brokers for months now.

I get the same response every time, "It's only that way in your area, around here the brokers have no control"


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## Craigslist Hack

bigdaddy said:


> This CAN'T be true!!
> 
> I have been telling people on here to contact local brokers for months now.
> 
> I get the same response every time, "It's only that way in your area, around here the brokers have no control"


I have still not located a broker with Wells Fargo and none of the other brokers seem to know who that person would be but I am looking. 

Honestly the stuff I am more interested in is not foreclosure work at all. 

I'm more interested in getting properties that failed inspection to pass. Do those small repairs quick at a huge markup. 

I'm interested in relocation work. 

I'm not that excited about foreclosures as a future for our company.


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## BRADSConst

I finally got the call Thursday. One of my brokers said "I need a roof bid."

It's taken quite a while to gain his trust. It also helped the fact that he wasn't getting "use national 'xyz' jammed down his throat"


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## Gypsos

Craigslist Hack said:


> I had a great meeting with a broker this week and she was pointing out new business opportunities that I was not aware of. She also explained some of nuances of the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae programs that I can use to my advantage.
> 
> It was the best meeting I have had in a while.


Share? PM even.


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## thanohano44

BRADSConst said:


> I finally got the call Thursday. One of my brokers said "I need a roof bid."
> 
> It's taken quite a while to gain his trust. It also helped the fact that he wasn't getting "use national 'xyz' jammed down his throat"


A real capital R


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## BPWY

bigdaddy said:


> This CAN'T be true!!
> 
> I have been telling people on here to contact local brokers for months now.
> 
> I get the same response every time, "It's only that way in your area, around here the brokers have no control"







Several of us have felt for a year or so that more and more control was going to go back to the brokers.
One thing for sure about P&P and real estate business is that it seems to be fluid and one must be ready to adapt to the changes.


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## STARBABY

Did a eviction last week for Realtor. First one I done in a long time. I refuse to do them for nationals. I`m in good with most Realtor in my area, but I get from them are winterization.


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## Craigslist Hack

STARBABY said:


> Did a eviction last week for Realtor. First one I done in a long time. I refuse to do them for nationals. I`m in good with most Realtor in my area, but I get from them are winterization.


I won this last little battle. It just makes me angry to think how many guys they screw. 

We need to find an attorney for all the guys getting screwed and launch am offensive.


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## Craigslist Hack

Since i posted this thread I have received no less than 3 private messages through this site from guys trying to break into this business. 

I wish them the absolute best but they really need to do their research and go for good work.


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## BPWY

Craigslist Hack said:


> Since i posted this thread I have received no less than 3 private messages through this site from guys trying to break into this business.
> 
> I wish them the absolute best but they really need to do their research and go for good work.






For some reason the FNGs just can't accept that this is not a safe business model to pursue. 
I don't know how in the world it can be said any plainer.


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## Craigslist Hack

BPWY said:


> For some reason the FNGs just can't accept that this is not a safe business model to pursue.
> I don't know how in the world it can be said any plainer.


They see that some guys are making a go of it and doing ok or in a few cases making a killing. What they do not realize is that these guys didn't just answer a Craigslist add and boom they were banking. A few are starting to realize that working for nationals is going to suck. They then want to go straight to being a SAMS vendor or working for a bank direct. What they don't realize is they have no industry knowledge or experience. 

I want to be a male supermodel the problem is i don't have the qualifications and i can't just call up Calvin Klein and say "I've got 38years experience wearing clothes. I want a million a year let's do this!" after all how hard can it be? I've been walking and wearing clothes for years this will be a breeze.


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## thanohano44

Craigslist Hack said:


> They see that some guys are making a go of it and doing ok or in a few cases making a killing. What they do not realize is that these guys didn't just answer a Craigslist add and boom they were banking. A few are starting to realize that working for nationals is going to suck. They then want to go straight to being a SAMS vendor or working for a bank direct. What they don't realize is they have no industry knowledge or experience.
> 
> I want to be a male supermodel the problem is i don't have the qualifications and i can't just call up Calvin Klein and say "I've got 38years experience wearing clothes. I want a million a year let's do this!" after all how hard can it be? I've been walking and wearing clothes for years this will be a breeze.


That's the best explanation I've heard anyone compare this niche to a newbie. Kudos.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> For some reason the FNGs just can't accept that this is not a safe business model to pursue.
> I don't know how in the world it can be said any plainer.


They know better than the seasoned vets. Duh


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## Ohnojim

*First off, this is not a business in any real sense*

it is just a group of clients, to whom, you are merely a number, in almost all cases. 
That being said, it can be a useful set of clients if you need a little more revenue to crack your nut, or keep some good help busy,even at a wash. 
The biggest thing is "Never need them".


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> They know better than the seasoned vets. Duh





Same thing in the trucking industry. Tell a FNG with stars in his eyes about the reality of life and he'll believe the recruiter over seasoned drivers.


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