# Msi cost estimator policy



## SANTYY30 (May 1, 2015)

so anyone submitting their bids on PRESERVATION for every single work order on mSI on Cost Estimator? 

We believe as long as you have all measurements and details on their BID SECTION everything should be ok. We are getting rejections like crazy about not creating our bids on a CE. It cost money to do this they are not paying for it, anyone with this issue.?

thanks.


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## oteroproperties (Aug 10, 2012)

It's not a requirement for my client, but I do it anyway. It does cost money, but I find it pays for its self. 

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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

I smell kickbacks to MSI from cost estimator companies..................


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

I don't understand how this would pay for itself. If you manage lets say 100 properties that needs bid and it cost $10 ea estimate you are spending $1000 of your own money for them to tell you how much it is ok to charge. I believe that I set my own prices and if you don't like them, then find someone else to do the work. In the P&P game maybe 10% of those bids get approved, so your getting 10 bid approvals on 100 properties... That sounds like crappy odds to me.


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## oteroproperties (Aug 10, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> I don't understand how this would pay for itself. If you manage lets say 100 properties that needs bid and it cost $10 ea estimate you are spending $1000 of your own money for them to tell you how much it is ok to charge. I believe that I set my own prices and if you don't like them, then find someone else to do the work. In the P&P game maybe 10% of those bids get approved, so your getting 10 bid approvals on 100 properties... That sounds like crappy odds to me.


To each his own. It more than pays for it self for me. 

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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

oteroproperties said:


> It's not a requirement for my client, but I do it anyway. It does cost money, but I find it pays for its self.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


How so? Estimator doesn't allow for your values. 
This is a free market


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## oteroproperties (Aug 10, 2012)

newreo said:


> How so? Estimator doesn't allow for your values.
> This is a free market


This is an argument I read a lot on this forum. 
You are correct it is a free market, but free market works both ways. I am free to accept the numbers that the estimator gives.

That being said, the only issue I have with the estimator is on low end bids. I.e 6lf of soffit or fascia etc. In this case I use the minimum charge option. 

I think the bigger argument is that as preservation contractors we've gotten away from our normal scope of work.

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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

oteroproperties said:


> This is an argument I read a lot on this forum.
> You are correct it is a free market, but free market works both ways. I am free to accept the numbers that the estimator gives.
> 
> That being said, the only issue I have with the estimator is on low end bids. I.e 6lf of soffit or fascia etc. In this case I use the minimum charge option.
> ...



what do you mean by getting away from our normal scope of work? Was there ever really a normal scope? I thought it was do anything they throw at us and see what sticks.


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## oteroproperties (Aug 10, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> what do you mean by getting away from our normal scope of work? Was there ever really a normal scope? I thought it was do anything they throw at us and see what sticks.


That depends on how long you've been doing preservation. When I started it was general securing, grass cuts, interior exterior infestation and hazard removal, damage reporting with EYEBALL estimates. We patched roofs but temporary patches. I.e. rolled roof and tar over leaking area or roof tarps. Now we are soffit guys, roof guys, windows guys, plumbers, electricians, mold remediation, deck dock and stair builders, tree guys, exterminators, painters, pressure washers, pool guys, demo guys, cleaners etc.....and that's just the things I can think of. All for at best case 20% less than market rate. 

We are not general contractors we are preservation contractors. We "preserve" assets it was never supposed to be our job to improve them. Sure, there are some general / building contractors doing this work, but I've always found that odd. I'm sure in some states it's a requirement so I can't speak to what should be done there, but for me, if I was a general or building contractor I wouldn't touch preservation. Wouldn't seem necessary. 

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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

oteroproperties said:


> That depends on how long you've been doing preservation. When I started it was general securing, grass cuts, interior exterior infestation and hazard removal, damage reporting with EYEBALL estimates. We patched roofs but temporary patches. I.e. rolled roof and tar over leaking area or roof tarps. Now we are soffit guys, roof guys, windows guys, plumbers, electricians, mold remediation, deck dock and stair builders, tree guys, exterminators, painters, pressure washers, pool guys, demo guys, cleaners etc.....and that's just the things I can think of. All for at best case 20% less than market rate.
> 
> We are not general contractors we are preservation contractors. We "preserve" assets it was never supposed to be our job to improve them. Sure, there are some general / building contractors doing this work, but I've always found that odd. I'm sure in some states it's a requirement so I can't speak to what should be done there, but for me, if I was a general or building contractor I wouldn't touch preservation. Wouldn't seem necessary.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



Yea I guess your right, I've been doing this since 2010 and it seems like they have been approving more and more work for less and less money. Bid approvals used to be for either roofs, mold, or exterior work. That was really it. Now they want us to be capable of doing anything and everything. I am a licensed general contractor, but that's because I'm required to be to work on these houses. I don't want to deal with people and home renovations, not my thing.


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## oteroproperties (Aug 10, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> Yea I guess your right, I've been doing this since 2010 and it seems like they have been approving more and more work for less and less money. Bid approvals used to be for either roofs, mold, or exterior work. That was really it. Now they want us to be capable of doing anything and everything. I am a licensed general contractor, but that's because I'm required to be to work on these houses. I don't want to deal with people and home renovations, not my thing.


I definitely hear not wanting to deal with customers. Not my thing either. 

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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

*Msi*

I work for MSI in Ohio and yes every work order needs CE... I use repairbase.net

Sometimes i send the order without CE if its a small list of bids and sometimes they e-Mail requesting it, sometimes they don't. But you will get better pricing using repairbase.net average mold job dryloking basement walls and kilz on the floor joist/ basement ceiling pays $7,500.00 and these orders come back to me like clock work. But bad news MSI dropped wells fargo in Ohio. Wells fargo approvals mold jobs all day long.


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## All Island Handy (Dec 12, 2012)

ShaneB said:


> I work for MSI in Ohio and yes every work order needs CE... I use repairbase.net
> 
> Sometimes i send the order without CE if its a small list of bids and sometimes they e-Mail requesting it, sometimes they don't. But you will get better pricing using repairbase.net average mold job dryloking basement walls and kilz on the floor joist/ basement ceiling pays $7,500.00 and these orders come back to me like clock work. But bad news MSI dropped wells fargo in Ohio. Wells fargo approvals mold jobs all day long.


there is a HUGE liability on you doing bleach and kilz. not trying to rain on your parade but WHEN not IF it comes back on you i sure hope you have been socking away some of all that money you have been making. it is really easy and WAY cheaper to just go get certified and not just bill accordingly but remove that liability because you will be performing a "proper remediation"


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## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

ShaneB said:


> I work for MSI in Ohio and yes every work order needs CE... I use repairbase.net
> 
> Sometimes i send the order without CE if its a small list of bids and sometimes they e-Mail requesting it, sometimes they don't. But you will get better pricing using repairbase.net average mold job dryloking basement walls and kilz on the floor joist/ basement ceiling pays $7,500.00 and these orders come back to me like clock work. But bad news MSI dropped wells fargo in Ohio. Wells fargo approvals mold jobs all day long.



Hope you carry good environmental insurance.
MSI did not and never would drop a client like Wells.
Hey Mac Griffen MSI legal What you say NOW. LOL


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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

I have never had a back charge, knock on wood. I've been in business since 2011 and always take pride in my work. Also Ohio does not require mold license. But I was looking into getting certified. Learning everyday.


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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

MSI posted a memo on their site that they were losing Wells Fargo in Ohio. I spoke to Alexicia Jones vendor rep. and she said that MSI let Wells Fargo go in Ohio. Do you work for MSI? If so what state?


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

Definitely go through with your certification ShaneB- it's not really a matter of a chargeback to get their money back from you, it's all about shifting liability for what is a HUGE potential cost with a mold situation. Honestly, you can write the best add-on to your work order, and their lawyers will pick it off like a bad scab, and then the bleeding starts. They don't care what you do, how well you do it, or what pride you take- it's all about money and liability, and about making sure they have as much as they can of one, and none of the other.


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## G 3 (May 3, 2015)

ShaneB said:


> MSI posted a memo on their site that they were losing Wells Fargo in Ohio. I spoke to Alexicia Jones vendor rep. and she said that MSI let Wells Fargo go in Ohio. Do you work for MSI? If so what state?


Do you HONESTLY believe that MSI would drop Wells? I don't think so. The rep is blowing smoke...


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## SANTYY30 (May 1, 2015)

*Good News*

Great news for everyone, after the meeting yesterday with MSI. The big managers did not know Cost estimator was been required on all the work orders. They confirmed was i been saying. THE USE OF COST ESTIMATOR IS NOT REQUIRE WHEN SUBMITTING YOUR BIDS. So thanks to me lol you guys dont have to run any more of those $10 per house cost estimators any more. they will advise when cost estimator will be required on properties when it happens, and it will be at free cost to vendors. for now submit your bids on the bid section with measurements.:wink: SO IS OFFICIAL FOR NOW IF WANT TO USE IT YOU CAN. BUT YOU DONT HAVE TO ANYMORE. 

"ALL BID LINE ITEMS MUST BE SUPPORTED AND JUSTIFIABLE BY A GOVERNMENT COST ESTIMATOR"[/COLOR][/COLOR]

people were miss interpreting this statement on the work order. it doesnt mean you have to run it on a CE. it means when your bid is submitted it will be subject to a Cost estimator and your bid needs to make sense or match the price ran.


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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

MSI lost wells fargo then. I went from $40,000 a month to nothing back in march 2016... No issues on my end. We complete every order on time and never sent back to a property. Do you work for Wells fargo???


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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

*Wells fargo*

Which client is covering ohio for wells fargo???


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## DK17 (Jul 28, 2016)

ShaneB said:


> Which client is covering ohio for wells fargo???


Safeguard has WF now for Ohio


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## SANTYY30 (May 1, 2015)

ShaneB said:


> MSI lost wells fargo then. I went from $40,000 a month to nothing back in march 2016... No issues on my end. We complete every order on time and never sent back to a property. Do you work for Wells fargo???


well they gain 90% of wells in Florida. where are you?


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## rock preservation (Jul 28, 2016)

*wells fargo*

lost them in Georgia to, they were with MCS and Service Link-- Huge Loss
Trying to find out who has the wells Fargo account in Alabama and Gerogia
Lots of changes going on in the industry now for sure..


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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

Ohio... VM said they still have wells fargo in southern ohio. I cover Akron/Canton Youngstown/Warren... I thought they had to cover the whole state?


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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

They don't understand how much they affect independent contractors by switching companies like this... Well good luck!!!


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## All Island Handy (Dec 12, 2012)

ShaneB said:


> They don't understand how much they affect independent contractors by switching companies like this... Well good luck!!!


I don't think that they don't understand, I think they just don't care. i would suggest getting your mold certs ( if thats what you want to do) and move on. you will make way more money and way less hassle. here is a link you should check out use the drop downs fill in the info and go from there . you will need to take the WRT (water restoration tech) as a prerequisite and then the AMRT (applied microbial remediation tech) 

http://www.iicrc.org/education-certification/course-schedule/


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## G 3 (May 3, 2015)

All Island Handy said:


> I don't think that they don't understand, I think they just don't care.
> 
> http://www.iicrc.org/education-certification/course-schedule/


Exactly.


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## ShaneB (Mar 30, 2016)

I'm definitely interested! We have talking about this for a while. thanks for the link! Also when you said move on, what do you mean? work for other preservation companies or start up a mold restoration company?


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