# contractual obligations



## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

Is the contractor obligated to perform a bid job that the price was automaticaly generated by a uploader formate then comes back substantally less than the original bid? The original price generated was fine with me and if it wasn't there is little you can do about it anyway....This National is telling me I have to complete work that comes back with any price they choose. I'm just about done with them, even though their money has been good for the most part.
This job is only a $500.00 job that I could do for cost. OK, 
Just a day ago they did it on a job we bid that had 2500 tires and 1500 gals of oil in 55 gal drums. We put that part of the bid into "hazards" and bid accordingly, approx. $14,000.00. The job comes back approved for the original quanity of cubes exterior and interior only the price is cut in half and no mention of the "hazards" or the hazard bid. Upon talking with the reginal coordinator I'm told that the hazard bid was only a "eyeball estimate" and I would have to do the entire job for the approved amount... Well the cost of getting rid of the tires alone was more that their "approved" price for the three hundred cb's we bid.

My question. am I obligated to perform work that comes back less than what was bid?


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

garylaps said:


> . . .My question. am I obligated to perform work that comes back less than what was bid?


According to memo #420 you are :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

PropPresPro said:


> According to memo #420 you are :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:



:thumbup: THAT was funny :thumbup:


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

whos eyeball estimate ? theres or your ? ,,, obviously yours,, tell them call up and get a drone plane to fly over to count tires, till then the bid stands 

i dont care if they use an estimator or not as the estimator has settable parameters ie they can plug in any price they want 

let say the local supply house gets a bundle of shingles on your truck for 40 bux you think good price lets mark that up by 30 percent ( handling ) 52 bux okay double that for install 104 bux okay we are at 312 a square ( no tar paper or nails added yet ) 

now they get this back and say garylaps is doing laps in a beer bottle trying to figure out how hes gonna buy that new boat 

they get out there sunday circulars and price compare well they can get shingles for 25 bux closeout at the dollar general doesnt matter if there purple ,,your at the supply house every day any way why should they pay for handling and they already figure you should have nails and some tar paper so it should come out to 75 bux a square they dont allow for cutting around vents hip and valley cuts ridge capping and or waste but cuz they like you it becomes a 100 bux a square 

NO DEAL 

if it was a private contract and you were doing it and you bid a grand , the homeowner comes back and says no get your A#$ up there for 500 , get it done and if i dont like it over the next year or five im taking the money back youd more than likely beat him to death with a hammer 

so why would you adjust for the bank ??

you were asked to put in a BID ,subcontractors and contractors BID work , we carry the liability of the work performed and its performance into the future 

Employees Get there collective [email protected]@es up on that roof and get paid on friday 


so are you a Contractor ? or are you an Employee ??


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

A bid is your proice to do the job. NO you are not obligated to do the job. HOLD FAST and see what happens. The hacks who cut the bids have to learn to dispose of the debris and hazards costs and if they want people as_ have been told that load the debris and go to a college parking lot do doughnuts while the debris falls out then leave thats what they are going to get with cut rate bids._


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

If you didn't bid the price then it isn't your bid.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> If you didn't bid the price then it isn't your bid.


What he said.


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

*re*

well if you do get the job I'll come by and get the oil for free :thumbup:. I know a bunch of people that use oil burners and would be very thankfull for some heat that they are having trouble affording.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

The altered/adjusted bid notices started coming in around 2006/07. The first few times we ignored it, then got a gutful and fired off letters to the companies. We simply told them if they have no legal authority to change a single thing to our letterhead estimates and if they did, they would be committing fraud. We had several call backs and emails stating (a lie) that they didn't touch them, it was "the client".


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

That's what we are being told "it's the client" If that is the case then the "client" can do it themselvs. 
Fortunately in this case the tires, oil and 300 cubes were on a different property that was also abandon (my cooridnator didn't believe me) These two properties are side by side and USED to be one. Anyway we have learned a valiable lesson on the cheap on that one it would have cost me about $10,000.
Now we are fighting the original $750.00 job (we'll get $562.5) on principles. That job will sit on our open order board till it's resolved or I'm fired. I hope they drop off the work they send me for a bad scorecard and I can at least get the $$$ they owe me. This industry is NOT a contractor relationship it's an employee relationship.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

68W30 said:


> whos eyeball estimate ? theres or your ? ,,, obviously yours,, tell them call up and get a drone plane to fly over to count tires, till then the bid stands
> 
> i dont care if they use an estimator or not as the estimator has settable parameters ie they can plug in any price they want
> 
> ...


 
Well said!


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

I would have to do the *entire job for the approved amount*... Well the cost of getting rid of the tires alone was more that their "approved" price for the three hundred cb's we bid.

I would not ever try to rationalize specifics... "my bid is as is, take it or leave-it.

I have started adding 
"This bid is not subject to client modifications or revisions without ProRem approval or negotiated change".


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

have you ever renegotiated over the phone got what you needed to get it done ? then got an invoice adjustment because they "forgot" to POC email ya that was a costly lesson


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

I have learned how to bid to get the amount I want. Simply put, if I need to make $200 I bid at least $250 and refuse to budge from $200.

As long as they feel they have beat you down they are easier to deal with.


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

Gypsos said:


> I have learned how to bid to get the amount I want. Simply put, if I need to make $200 I bid at least $250 and refuse to budge from $200.
> 
> As long as they feel they have beat you down they are easier to deal with.


That would be great if I could put my own # on debris. The uploader puts the # in for you and you have no choice..(though I like that hud $50.00 figure) 
On the tires and 300 cubes they came back with $15.00 a cube including tires and oil...wasn't going to happen.
Heres a hypothetical question. Let's say I didn't get out of this one the way I did...,What would they do? Backcharge me the total that THEY bid? I'm sure noone would do the job for there offer either, so would they charge me what someone else would do it for?


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

garylaps said:


> That would be great if I could put my own # on debris. The uploader puts the # in for you and you have no choice..(though I like that hud $50.00 figure)
> 
> 
> Don't even bother filling out their form. Put the bid on your letter head with your figures, Terms & Conditions etc... If they bitch...oh well. I do it all the time. If they want the work done and must have it on their form, politely explain to them to figure out how to transpose you bid to their system.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

second that...


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

garylaps said:


> That would be great if I could put my own # on debris. The uploader puts the # in for you and you have no choice..(though I like that hud $50.00 figure)
> On the tires and 300 cubes they came back with $15.00 a cube including tires and oil...wasn't going to happen.
> Heres a hypothetical question. Let's say I didn't get out of this one the way I did...,What would they do? Backcharge me the total that THEY bid? I'm sure noone would do the job for there offer either, so would they charge me what someone else would do it for?


I use my form on my letterhead. The devil is in the details so I pick apart every little detail of a job and list it in the bid. 

I also decline work if my bid is tampered with. If I agree to a price change I will issue a new bid reflecting the new price.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Most of the contracts out there have a 24hr right of refusal clause. If they did not include this clause you would have a valid argument for the W2 situation as opposed to W9 1099 etc. Therefore you CAN refuse any job thrown your way especially if they cut your bid.

I do it often.


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

:notworthy:Thanks you guys. I find the help I recieve here to be of extra ordinary help. I will implement these advisements in all my new work orders. I imagine it's alot of cut and paste in the "comments section"...
Again, the help I recieve here is of one I would hope a good friend would give and is very much welcomed and apprieciated.


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

garylaps said:


> :notworthy:Thanks you guys. I find the help I recieve here to be of extra ordinary help. I will implement these advisements in all my new work orders. I imagine it's alot of cut and paste in the "comments section"...
> Again, the help I recieve here is of one I would hope a good friend would give and is very much welcomed and apprieciated.


As to cut and paste we have been doing it forever 

we have a doc disclaiming wints 
we have a doc that we add at the end of bids 
we have a doc that we use in comments on invoicing 

you develop them over the years and after 12hrs on the road who wants to retype the same standard disclaimer every night on every WO 

besides if we have to read a 10 page WO to figure out they need a line capped why cant we give them back ten pages explaining how with what and with who we did said gas cap outlining pipe dopeing etc 

I have been called passive aggressive


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