# 5 Bros. gettind desperate............



## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

2nd time in two weeks asking me what i want for a trip charge fore a final conveyance and recut 625 miles (yup you read it right! Six Hundred Twenty Five Miles) one way. They also called on one a little closer, 340 miles one way for an initial secure.....


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## RKRM (Sep 27, 2012)

And your response?


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

RKRM said:


> And your response?


Thanks but no thanks..................


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> Thanks but no thanks..................


My response would be "do you have your credit card handy". $1 per mile to and from. Or a plane ticket, rental car, lodging, tool rentals, meals paid for immediately and no discount on work. And determine how many of your crew you're taking. 4 seems about right. 2 people to hold ladders. One to take photos and 2 to cut grass.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> Thanks but no thanks..................


phew! zomg....I thought for sure you were going to take that one. That was close.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2012)

*re*

Depends on how bad they want it, figure 2 days +hotel room and $125 or so in fuel, could be a nice trip if their willing to actually pay you.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

nurumkin said:


> Depends on how bad they want it, figure 2 days +hotel room and $125 or so in fuel, could be a nice trip if their willing to actually pay you.


If only he wasn't so busy in his zone already and or if he had adequate coverage/help to assist him while he's gone. That job could end up being not worth it. 

We have done some jobs like this that was way out of the way. It's rarely worth it, that's why I demand payment up front. It softens the sting. We have done a bit of these for FAS and Five Bros over the years.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2012)

*re*

I would mainly be afraid of not getting paid, I like to take these types of jobs once in a while as a way to relax, its nice to just veg out in the car once in a while, or take the bike. If you can spare the time.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

nurumkin said:


> I would mainly be afraid of not getting paid, .









As you should be.


I heard tonight of the brothers promising a contractor the same thing, big trip charge because they were desperate. (which they almost never will do... pay more than an extra $25 trip charge)

Any way a month or two goes by and the brothers call the guy up and say he needs to return to the property to redo some work they weren't happy with. He told them to step off and their reply was go do it yourself or we'll back charge you what ever the other contractor charges us.

In the end they back charged him for the entire trip fee, and most of the job pay.

Now we all know the claim was highly likely bogus to begin with and even more likely that they never sent another contractor out to the property. They just charged the contractor and sent the funds straight to their bottom line.



Moral of the story............. beware, they'll poke you sooner or later and with great enjoyment on their side of the deal.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

BPWY said:


> As you should be.
> 
> I heard tonight of the brothers promising a contractor the same thing, big trip charge because they were desperate. (which they almost never will do... pay more than an extra $25 trip charge)
> 
> ...


Indeed


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

you could also say I'LL do it as soon as you send a check for all open invoices due to you. Watch them change their tune real fast.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2012)

5 Brothers pay on time,the problem with them is the person calling or emailing about the same question for 2 weeks.

We did a intial secure for the Brothers that was over 200 miles each way.They paid us 55 cents per mile each way.

They did try like bandits to backcharge,kickback bill and etc over the next 2 weeks on my photos.I will not lie I took about 400 photos for lock change and lock box.200 of the roof and ceilings and about 200 of 1 cub raw garabge.I did not label all of them or submit them all just wanted a few backups to play there games back at them.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2012)

It's only going to get worse for them if they don't start working on their contractor retention skills. If they don't wise up real soon it could result in them going under. You can't stay in business when you don't have anyone to do the work.


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## BigMonkey (Sep 16, 2012)

They sent me 175 miles into Wyoming for an Initial. I got in writing that I'd get $100 recurring trip charge for every trip to the property. 

(the only problem is I didn't turn off the water at the curb as per FNMA regs and so got a not charge) 

Never again. No matter what they offer. *shakes head*


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## Tom Stuble (Sep 17, 2012)

seems like an important thing not to do


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

BigMonkey said:


> They sent me 175 miles into Wyoming for an Initial. I got in writing that I'd get $100 recurring trip charge for every trip to the property.
> 
> (the only problem is I didn't turn off the water at the curb as per FNMA regs and so got a not charge)
> 
> Never again. No matter what they offer. *shakes head*


Well on this one, sorry pal, this was your fault. I've done these before and drove hundreds of miles to fix my bad.


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Well on this one, sorry pal, this was your fault. I've done these before and drove hundreds of miles to fix my bad.


I'd fight with them on this... curb valves are owned and operated by the water company. Many Water companies require a written letter from the owner... done many a witnz for the brothers, and I dump it back on them... I need a written letter to have utilities cut on a property and me not being the owner, what do they say.. "not my job man"...


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

True that JF.


Besides like Mtmntman will tell you having done a lot of city digging...... he who turns it and it starts leaking......... pays for a new one.

I ONLY have the city turn the valve at the street. I won't touch em.


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

BPWY said:


> True that JF.
> 
> 
> Besides like Mtmntman will tell you having done a lot of city digging...... he who turns it and it starts leaking......... pays for a new one.
> ...


I forget that as well... an that's a sweet $2-$3-k fix... not including the discount.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> I'd fight with them on this... curb valves are owned and operated by the water company. Many Water companies require a written letter from the owner... done many a witnz for the brothers, and I dump it back on them... I need a written letter to have utilities cut on a property and me not being the owner, what do they say.. "not my job man"...


I didn't say for him to have not fought it. If there's a reason it wasn't turned off by him, this should have been communicated from him to the 5 pickanini's. That's just a part of doing a thorough job. 

In AZ, UT and HI you better not be caught turning the water off at the curb or even opening it. That's tampering and if caught $3k-$10k fine depending on where it is. 

Never did a wint in Nevada so I don't know.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

*re*



MKM Landscaping said:


> 5 Brothers pay on time,the problem with them is the person calling or emailing about the same question for 2 weeks.
> 
> We did a intial secure for the Brothers that was over 200 miles each way.They paid us 55 cents per mile each way.
> 
> They did try like bandits to backcharge,kickback bill and etc over the next 2 weeks on my photos.I will not lie I took about 400 photos for lock change and lock box.200 of the roof and ceilings and about 200 of 1 cub raw garabge.I did not label all of them or submit them all just wanted a few backups to play there games back at them.



That reminds me, I once sent a new guy to do a sales clean and told him "take tons of photos you can never have too many" Well I got over 700 photos for a sales clean on a 1 bedroom condo.


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> I didn't say for him to have not fought it.
> 
> Did not mean to insinuate you did... Apologize if I worded it wrong... you know your ****...


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm not offended. I just wanted to make myself clear. No offense taken. There's only 2 things thy offend me. Taxes. And liberals. Lol


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> I'm not offended. I just wanted to make myself clear. No offense taken. There's only 2 things thy offend me. Taxes. And liberals. Lol


Liberals... ya gotta have a few in every crowd...


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> Liberals... ya gotta have a few on your facebook wall...




fixed it

Troy has fun messing with them. :laughing: :clap:


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm not offended. I just wanted to make myself clear. No offense taken. There's only 2 things thy offend me. Taxes. And liberals. Lol


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

BPWY said:


> fixed it
> 
> Troy has fun messing with them. :laughing: :clap:


Especially the ones that I'm related too. Lol. Smile so I can see you.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

MKM Landscaping said:


> 5 Brothers pay on time,the problem with them is the person calling or emailing about the same question for 2 weeks.
> 
> I will not lie I took about 400 photos for lock change and lock box.200 of the roof and ceilings and about 200 of 1 cub raw garabge.I did not label all of them or submit them all just wanted a few backups to play there games back at them.


They have automated emails they send out every day. When they get into the office, 2-3 of the reps will start calling or emailing over the same order. "Didn't I just answer that question?" happens a lot.

I had a girl call from their office one day, very rude and short, complaining that we didn't send in sufficient photos for some order. We sent in what she needed within 5 minutes. She spit back an email wanting to know why we didn't turn in all of the photos we took in the first place!  Girlie, the photos that we take are my property first. I can choose to send them to you or keep them for my records or whatever I want to do.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

BPWY said:


> As you should be.
> 
> 
> I heard tonight of the brothers promising a contractor the same thing, big trip charge because they were desperate. (which they almost never will do... pay more than an extra $25 trip charge)
> ...


they have been burning my phone up too! Been doing like FAS will call hang up call back once or twice. really pi** me off I listen to audio book on my phone and it stops it while they call!!!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

*Hello,*

* This letter is to inform you that you have been made completely inactive for preservation with Five Brothers. This means you will no longer be receiving any preservation orders from our company. Please find the reason for your inactive status listed below.*


*Reason for inactive status:** due to no contact.*


No kidding "No Contact", I fired you for TOO MUCH CONTACT months ago, apparently they didn't get the hint when they kept filling my inbox with WO requests and we just completely ignored them for months after I not so politely called them and told them where the nearest bus station was.


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## BigMonkey (Sep 16, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Well on this one, sorry pal, this was your fault. I've done these before and drove hundreds of miles to fix my bad.


yup... It was my fault.

Cuz in my area, the water meter's are owned by the city and it's a crime to even open the meter vault, so I NEVER shut off at the curb. I always shut off at the main in the house. In Wyoming, curb, gutter and water shutoff are owned by the home owner. 

I looked at this as "never again" but my wife saw this as a great learning experience. Next time they ask us to go out of our area, we'll have a checklist of local ordinances to check.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

BigMonkey said:


> yup... It was my fault.
> 
> Cuz in my area, the water meter's are owned by the city and it's a crime to even open the meter vault, so I NEVER shut off at the curb. I always shut off at the main in the house. In Wyoming, curb, gutter and water shutoff are owned by the home owner.
> 
> I looked at this as "never again" but my wife saw this as a great learning experience. Next time they ask us to go out of our area, we'll have a checklist of local ordinances to check.


Yes. Now up your trip charge to$1permile each way. Get your money back. Let that be a learning experience to them to treat their contractors fairs.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> They have automated emails they send out every day. When they get into the office, 2-3 of the reps will start calling or emailing over the same order. "Didn't I just answer that question?" happens a lot.
> 
> I had a girl call from their office one day, very rude and short, complaining that we didn't send in sufficient photos for some order. We sent in what she needed within 5 minutes. She spit back an email wanting to know why we didn't turn in all of the photos we took in the first place!  Girlie, the photos that we take are my property first. I can choose to send them to you or keep them for my records or whatever I want to do.







I always sent them the same photo package as the first time. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Yes. Now up your trip charge to$1permile each way. Get your money back. Let that be a learning experience to them to treat their contractors fairs.


That's the spirit! I ALWAYS find a way, sometime, somehow, to get my money back after a charge back too.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

So....you guys treat unethical and unscrupulous companies with your very own disregard for business integrity?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> So....you guys treat unethical and unscrupulous companies with your very own disregard for business integrity?


And that pretty much closes the entire p&p topic. :thumbsup: Kent


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Ey for an eye..............................


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> Ey for an eye..............................


Makes the whole world blind...


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm just glad you P&P guys are blabbing all of your techniques and tactics on an open, searchable, worldwide forum for everyone to see. Make sure you fill out your profiles completely so everyone knows exactly who you guys are. It's no wonder you guys are always getting the shaft.

You ever think for a second that these companies read all of your comments and tighten the noose because of it?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> I'm just glad you P&P guys are blabbing all of your techniques and tactics on an open, searchable, worldwide forum for everyone to see. Make sure you fill out your profiles completely so everyone knows exactly who you guys are. It's no wonder you guys are always getting the shaft.
> 
> You ever think for a second that these companies read all of your comments and tighten the noose because of it?


I am 100% sure they do. Why wouldnt they. Hell just from reading these the past few years I could be one bastard of a national...


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Works both ways guys. Contractors can see what the Nationals do to screw them too. I can see the desperation with the Nationals in the last 6 months. They are slowly running out of people to do the work. You think they will ever learn that if they treat someone decent they will get the same back???


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't disagree with that statement. 

I do however, would not trust any of you guys who have stated how you "cook the books" 

Surely you understand that there are others with business to give that are trying to find the right person for the job. Google search does wonders nowadays. 

But hey....if you like an eye for an eye, by all means. I see that philosophy works well in the middle east. We here in the civilized world understand that there are better ways.

Btw, they aren't going to run out of people, I assure you.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> I don't disagree with that statement.
> 
> I do however, would not trust any of you guys who have stated how you "cook the books"
> 
> ...



Obviously they are. I have fielded 2 calls this week alone offering me trip charges on jobs 600+ miles away and 3 more for stuff under an hour away. This tells me they are running out of options.......


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> I'm just glad you P&P guys are blabbing all of your techniques and tactics on an open, searchable, worldwide forum for everyone to see. Make sure you fill out your profiles completely so everyone knows exactly who you guys are. It's no wonder you guys are always getting the shaft.
> 
> You ever think for a second that these companies read all of your comments and tighten the noose because of it?


Think that?!? 
I've invited representatives from companies I work for to come sign up here! I know for a fact that they lurk here regularly, we talk about it on the phone frequently. I have nothing to hide from my clients or anyone else. 

Thanks for your concern, Kent, but I don't recall ever "always getting the shaft", not in this business or in other business ventures I've been involved in in the past. I guess some might think I'm 'lucky', but really, paramount to that success is making informed business decisions. I am relentless when it comes to research before I invest my valuable time or money into anything, and this particular industry requires an unprecedented amount of caution with every step. Like I said here before, so far I'm doing well in this industry, if I weren't, I would have moved on years ago. I keep learning more and more every week/month/year and evolving with the changes in this industry, thanks in part to the vast wealth of helpful information in these P&P forums. If you ever have anything helpful to add Kent, by all means, post it! I think almost everyone's main purpose of being here at all is to learn from and to help each other.

BTW, when you post things like you did in your post above, your true colors glow in the dark, and all doubt is removed about your intent of hanging out in the P&P forums. Kind of counter-productive to the atmosphere the mods here are trying to maintain, don't you think? JMO


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I. This is an open forum and I will respond whenever and wherever I please, as is the option for everyone else.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I. This is an open forum and I will respond whenever and wherever I please, as is the option for everyone else.


And I for one have never tried to stop anyone, including you, from posting their opinion. . . .have you?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

PropPresPro said:


> And I for one have never tried to stop anyone, including you, from posting their opinion. . . .have you?


Personal opinion no, personal attacks yes


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> Personal opinion no, personal attacks yes


OK?



Kent Whitten said:


> I'm just glad you P&P guys are blabbing all of your techniques and tactics on an open, searchable, worldwide forum for everyone to see. Make sure you fill out your profiles completely so everyone knows exactly who you guys are. It's no wonder you guys are always getting the shaft.


I stand by my "true colors" statement.
Have a nice day.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Well, again, you are entitled to your opinion, however pointless it may be. 

Anything else?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

That is a broad brush Kent. I chose to cut out the crooks from our client list so there was no eye for an eye.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> Well, again, you are entitled to your opinion, however pointless it may be.
> 
> Anything else?


Yes, 2 things.

Is calling my opinion pointless not a personal attack? 
Shouldn't a moderator of this forum have a little more tact than that?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

PropPresPro said:


> Yes, 2 things.
> 
> Is calling my opinion pointless not a personal attack?
> Shouldn't a moderator of this forum have a little more tact than that?


I wasn't born with much tact. You?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> I wasn't born with much tact. You?


Tact is not something anyone is born with. Tact is learned from life experiences and dealing with other people. 

Since you refuse to respond to my sincere questions, I will now tactfully bow out of this game of verbal volleyball.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Kent Whitten said:


> I wasn't born with much tact. You?


King Kent,

What's unscrupulous with naming what you need to get a job done? At $1 per mile and speed limits of 35-75mph, I think that this fellow who is going out of his way to provide a service for which they have nobody else to do is fair. 
$75 per hour is still less than what this fellow probably works for while in his service area. 

If he's driving 6 hours out of his way to help them out of a bind, I don't see how this is bad. This is an agreement his client would have to approve before he leaves. If they agree to his request, they're find with paying that. If not, there one of many others they can contact. 

I've had clients that were so good to us that I would drive 3 hours each way and not charge them a dime of travel time or a trip fee. 


I've had clients whom I have needed something done that have sent me bogus charge backs in the past. I total up their past charge backs that were unwarranted and added it to my trip charge and they've paid it by credit card or ach direct deposit. 

An eye for and eye works. The great thing about being in business for yourself is that you determine what you need to earn to get the job done. 

Kent, may you enjoy the rest of this beautiful day. 

Mahalo


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> King Kent,
> 
> What's unscrupulous with naming what you need to get a job done? At $1 per mile and speed limits of 35-75mph, I think that this fellow who is going out of his way to provide a service for which they have nobody else to do is fair.
> $75 per hour is still less than what this fellow probably works for while in his service area.
> ...


Here's a novel idea.....don't do it if you don't want to. If you do, then go do it. If they don't pay your invoice, then don't work for them again.

Au revoir


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

PropPresPro said:


> Tact is not something anyone is born with. Tact is learned from life experiences and dealing with other people.
> 
> Since you refuse to respond to my sincere questions, I will now tactfully bow out of this game of verbal volleyball.


Looks like I answered all your questions minus one. You want me to go back and answer that one too?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

Looks like you guys are on the same page to me. No hairs here to be split..


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Guys come on, have each other's backs against unscrupulous companies taking advantage of people.


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## rselectric1 (Apr 12, 2012)

Please visit

http://www.preservationtalk.com/


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