# Who does business with Five Brothers?



## Guest

Good Morning,

Received this response about additionally insured from Five Brothers:



Five Brothers said:


> It's a Five Brothers policy that we are added as additional insured. I cannot send you work orders without it unfortunately.


Honestly, who would agree to this?


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## Guest

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> Received this response about additionally insured from Five Brothers:
> 
> Honestly, who would agree to this?


Not to many anymore. It was once considered a SOP. Now the insurance companies are on to it and won't let you without lots more $$


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## Guest

Being thay I have been in the insurance business for 2+ decades I thought of a reply to this issue that someone who is signing up for work NEEDS to ask so we can all hear their response. 

Statement: "dear Service Company we have been trying to acquire a general commercial liability policy that will allow us to add you as an additional insured and we finally found 1 but during the application process the Insurance Company will need to underwrite your company in order to have a basis for premium and insurance qualification and they will need all your financial records for the last 3 years, 3 years of loss runs to see if you have had any insurance claims, list of all the owners since they will have their financial history checked with the credit bureaus and whatever other background data they will need to accurately underwrite my application. Also, each owner will need to sign an application giving permission to do the background check, what is your fax number to send the application?"

These are all questions plus more that a company would ask to underwrite a risk. Why would a service company expect to be able to skate? The ONLY time our agency EVER added an additional insured was on government contracts and underwriting those type of policies are very speciallized. I just cannot fathom any insurer offering an additional insured rider to any general liability clause. This problem existed in the mid/late '90's and that was partly the reason NAMFS was formed so they could develop a policy through surplus lines carriers that would allow the additional insured endorsement BUT all of us with those policies PAY THE PRICE.


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> Being thay I have been in the insurance business for 2+ decades I thought of a reply to this issue that someone who is signing up for work NEEDS to ask so we can all hear their response.
> 
> Statement: "dear Service Company we have been trying to acquire a general commercial liability policy that will allow us to add you as an additional insured and we finally found 1 but during the application process the Insurance Company will need to underwrite your company in order to have a basis for premium and insurance qualification and they will need all your financial records for the last 3 years, 3 years of loss runs to see if you have had any insurance claims, list of all the owners since they will have their financial history checked with the credit bureaus and whatever other background data they will need to accurately underwrite my application. Also, each owner will need to sign an application giving permission to do the background check, what is your fax number to send the application?"
> 
> These are all questions plus more that a company would ask to underwrite a risk. Why would a service company expect to be able to skate? The ONLY time our agency EVER added an additional insured was on government contracts and underwriting those type of policies are very speciallized. I just cannot fathom any insurer offering an additional insured rider to any general liability clause. This problem existed in the mid/late '90's and that was partly the reason NAMFS was formed so they could develop a policy through surplus lines carriers that would allow the additional insured endorsement BUT all of us with those policies PAY THE PRICE.


I would love to use that on the next company that asks that of me. Can I use it?


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## Guest

Most definately. I would love to hear the response. If I was actively searching for additional companies this would be asked.


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> Most definately. I would love to hear the response. If I was actively searching for additional companies this would be asked.


Lately they contact me. But usually tell them no thanks due to pricing, but I would love to get their reaction to it.:laughing:


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## Guest

Good Morning,

I sent the contact at Five Brothers that paragraph (with a new minor changes for syntax and grammar). I do not expect a response but if one were to arise, I will post here.

Thanks!


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## Guest

When we are asked to provide additional insured coverage I ask if they are willing to pay for it. Last time our cost was 10% of our annual premium per additional insured. Some GC's will cover it if you ask.

For the ones that don't, factor it into your bid just like any other cost. Boils down to if you want the work. As long as the cost is covered I don't care.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Guest

They got back to me. Here is their response.



Five Brothers said:


> Please have your insurance company contact me, as I think there is some kind of miscommunication here. All of our vendors add us with a small charge and no underwriting. I would be happy to speak with your insurance rep to clarify what we actually need.


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## BPWY

My response is "my company's policy is to not do add insured at the advice of my agent."

If they can have company policies...... so can we.


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## APlusPPGroup

72opp said:


> They got back to me. Here is their response.


Call your agent and explain to him/her what you're hoping to accomplish, then give your potential client their name and number.

Some of these nationals are multi-billion dollar companies. I don't see why we have to add them as additional insured either, with one exception. 

Naming them on the certificate of insurance acts as a trigger when the policy lapses or expires and they can request new proof of insurance from you.

I ask to be additional insured because I, personally, like to have the notification if one of my vendors is no longer insured. If their policy lapses or cancels and I'm not named on the certificate, all the liability is on MY insurance if something goes wrong. 

Linda


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## Guest

At least here, we can name anyone and however many we want on a certificate of insurance. If the policy lapses or is canceled everyone is notified. We offer a certificate of insurance to every client at the contract signings. Very few accept, but when they do it is just a phone call and free.

Additional insured is a different animal. There is a check box on the certificate of insurance to indicate if the named certificate holder is additionally insured or not. There is a risk to that and a premium charged for it. We used to get 1 free additional insured per year. Not anymore tough, apparently didn't work out that well for the insurance company.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Guest

a1propertyclean said:


> Call your agent and explain to him/her what you're hoping to accomplish, then give your potential client their name and number.
> 
> Some of these nationals are multi-billion dollar companies. I don't see why we have to add them as additional insured either, with one exception.
> 
> Naming them on the certificate of insurance acts as a trigger when the policy lapses or expires and they can request new proof of insurance from you.
> 
> I ask to be additional insured because I, personally, like to have the notification if one of my vendors is no longer insured. If their policy lapses or cancels and I'm not named on the certificate, all the liability is on MY insurance if something goes wrong.
> 
> Linda


This is what my certificate of insurance does, according to my insurance man.


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## APlusPPGroup

72opp said:


> This is what my certificate of insurance does, according to my insurance man.


As long as their name is one it, they'll be notified. If not, they won't.

Too many vendors quit paying their insurance, once they're established with a client. I have a long list of vendors I'm not using anymore because their insurance has lapsed and I haven't received their new POI.

Linda


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## Guest

In truth the way these Service Companies are turning in claims you should call back 5 Brothers and say that your insurance agent won't waste their time talking to them since "we do not negotiate on underwriting" and then tell them that after further review the insurance agent now thinks that 5 Brothers should be listed not as an additional insured but as a NAMED INSURED. Same coverages,,,,,,only difference is that the Service Company is just as responsible for payment of premiums as you are


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## thanohano44

FremontREO said:


> In truth the way these Service Companies are turning in claims you should call back 5 Brothers and say that your insurance agent won't waste their time talking to them since "we do not negotiate on underwriting" and then tell them that after further review the insurance agent now thinks that 5 Brothers should be listed not as an additional insured but as a NAMED INSURED. Same coverages,,,,,,only difference is that the Service Company is just as responsible for payment of premiums as you are


Nice


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## BPWY

72opp said:


> They got back to me. Here is their response.





> Originally Posted by Five Brothers
> Please have your insurance company contact me, as I think there is some kind of miscommunication here. All of our vendors add us with a small charge and no underwriting. I would be happy to speak with your insurance rep to clarify what we actually need.







The reason they got back to you is that you are in the courting stage.
Once they have you in their grip expect A WHOLE lot of emails ignored.
Especially if you are trying to reason with them on why they shouldn't be taking advantage of you.


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## brm1109

*5 brothers*

I have to say that so far in 3 years I really haven't had many problems with 5 brothers. The only times are if my folks miss a photo or something which I can see.
I am at the point now though that I am only taking work orders from 2 companies (5 brothers being one of them).
I have found that every other company is just to low on pricing.


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## REO2Rentals

BPWY said:


> The reason they got back to you is that you are in the courting stage.
> Once they have you in their grip expect A WHOLE lot of emails ignored.
> Especially if you are trying to reason with them on why they shouldn't be taking advantage of you.



Once they screwed you :whistling they'll ignored you


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## JFMURFY

They are the most inept bunch in the trade I have ever worked with... 5 people within this space of 2 days asking the same redundant questions...they dont know the lingo...and when you bid a project or task...they want a price breakout like they want you to give away the store.
There's better ones out there.


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## brm1109

I just told them that if they can't accept that a licensed plumber is needed for 95% of the jobs then they should assign everything to their other contractors because I am not taking any chances. I follow what the state says not what a client thinks.
I have been keeping track. I have had 9 phone calls in 2 weeks from them for orders in another state, even though I keep telling them I don't cover the area.


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## BPWY

Brm use their contract against them.

All the contracts I've seen say "all state and local laws must be followed".
Throw that in their faces.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> Brm use their contract against them.
> 
> All the contracts I've seen say "all state and local laws must be followed".
> Throw that in their faces.


Out here. Any licenses pro ain't even giving bids without a fee of $75-$150 to come and bid a job. They've been driving all over giving free bids. Now they say if they get the job, they will subtract the bid fee from the job. 

I think they've read BPWY's posts many times.


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## brm1109

same here,
I have some plumbers and electricians that have no problem giving me bids on residential work. 
But the minute I tell them that it is a foreclosure they won't go out unless they are paid for the time. Can't blame them.


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## Guest

I do business with Two Brothers :whistling:


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> Out here. Any licenses pro ain't even giving bids without a fee of $75-$150 to come and bid a job. They've been driving all over giving free bids. Now they say if they get the job, they will subtract the bid fee from the job.
> 
> I think they've read BPWY's posts many times.





brm1109 said:


> same here,
> I have some plumbers and electricians that have no problem giving me bids on residential work.
> But the minute I tell them that it is a foreclosure they won't go out unless they are paid for the time. Can't blame them.






I've had that problem for some time now. To the point where I don't ask them to come out and bid. I turn in a bid "to obtain professional licensed contractor estimate, bid fee will be fully refunded upon bid approval". I get 0.0 bid approvals for that item.
The generals have better things to do than run around and give free bids.
Call up Orkin and see if they'll give you a termite inspection.
When they find out that its for a bank owned they are almost rude telling you that "WE DO NOT TOUCH BANK OWNED PROPERTIES" and hang up the phone on you.


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## JFMURFY

bpwy said:


> the reason they got back to you is that you are in the courting stage.
> Once they have you in their grip expect a whole lot of emails ignored.
> Especially if you are trying to reason with them on why they shouldn't be taking advantage of you.






you are 100% on the money with that comment.
Jfm


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> I've had that problem for some time now. To the point where I don't ask them to come out and bid. I turn in a bid "to obtain professional licensed contractor estimate, bid fee will be fully refunded upon bid approval". I get 0.0 bid approvals for that item.
> The generals have better things to do than run around and give free bids.
> Call up Orkin and see if they'll give you a termite inspection.
> When they find out that its for a bank owned they are almost rude telling you that "WE DO NOT TOUCH BANK OWNED PROPERTIES" and hang up the phone on you.


Exactly.


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## Guest

Good Evening,

To be blunt, it has been a very trying time for me. I have decided to try out Five Brothers. I wish to thank everyone for their comments and/or advice. If I am going against what you advise please do not take it personally. As I said, it is trying times for me.

BPWY could you fully explain this:



BPWY said:


> I turn in a bid "to obtain professional licensed contractor estimate, bid fee will be fully refunded upon bid approval".


I apologize for asking for clarification on this quote. I just want to make sure I understand what you stated.

Thanks,


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## BPWY

Good luck you may have a few good months. I did. To the tune of $20,000 from them one year.
They WERE my best client until they decided that I was the next victim ripe for rape.



As for your question. Lets say you need a mold remediation bid...... or a roof replacement bid, or plumbing or HVAC etc etc etc etc.
Now days many of them will charge a bid fee for bank owned properties because the expectation of actually getting bid approval is slim to none.
I put in a bid to obtain their bid fee. Marking the bid details that the fee is fully refundable upon bid approval for the actual work.


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## Guest

Good Evening,

So, as I understand: 

If there needs to be a roof bid (for example) and the roofing guys charge $100.00 to come out to bid because of bank owned property; you put in a bid for $100.00 to have roofing guys come out. They (Five Brothers) pay you the $100.00 to get the roofing guys out. Correct? Then, if the bid is accepted, they will pay the bid amount you submit?

I apologize for the remedial questions, I just want to make sure I understand.

Thanks,


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## mtmtnman

72opp said:


> Good Evening,
> 
> So, as I understand:
> 
> If there needs to be a roof bid (for example) and the roofing guys charge $100.00 to come out to bid because of bank owned property; you put in a bid for $100.00 to have roofing guys come out. They (Five Brothers) pay you the $100.00 to get the roofing guys out. Correct? Then, if the bid is accepted, they will pay the bid amount you submit?
> 
> I apologize for the remedial questions, I just want to make sure I understand.
> 
> Thanks,


You will bid to 5 bros the fee the roofer will charge you PLUS $$ for your time PLUS their discount. That way IF they approve you to get a bid from the roofer you will get paid enough to cover your time, the roofers time and 5 bros discount. This fee is refunded to 5 bros if the bid is awarded.


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## Guest

72opp said:


> Good Evening,
> 
> So, as I understand:
> 
> If there needs to be a roof bid (for example) and the roofing guys charge $100.00 to come out to bid because of bank owned property; you put in a bid for $100.00 to have roofing guys come out. They (Five Brothers) pay you the $100.00 to get the roofing guys out. Correct? Then, if the bid is accepted, they will pay the bid amount you submit?
> 
> I apologize for the remedial questions, I just want to make sure I understand.
> 
> Thanks,


You are going to get eaten alive. Don't do it.


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## Guest

72opp,

Remember that only a licensed general contractor can hire subs in MN so be sure to get that license. Thats why 5bro has in their contract that you must be licensed to complete work where a license is needed. YES 5bro knows of this requirement and use this against their subs when (not if) they decide not to pay on a big job. I know 1 guy lost 17,000 when he subbed out a roof & siding job and they didnt pay...p&p guy ate it since he broke codes. Happened in Lindstrum. I could also tell you the plumber who didnt get paid on 40 winterizes..reasons unknown in Winona. Just be careful. Stay on their "probation" period for as long as you can until you get a feel for them.


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## Guest

fremontreo said:


> 72opp,
> 
> remember that only a licensed general contractor can hire subs in mn so be sure to get that license. Thats why 5bro has in their contract that you must be licensed to complete work where a license is needed. Yes 5bro knows of this requirement and use this against their subs when (not if) they decide not to pay on a big job. I know 1 guy lost 17,000 when he subbed out a roof & siding job and they didnt pay...p&p guy ate it since he broke codes. Happened in lindstrum. I could also tell you the plumber who didnt get paid on 40 winterizes..reasons unknown in winona. Just be careful. Stay on their "probation" period for as long as you can until you get a feel for them.



b-i-n-g-o!!!


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## Guest

they tryed get me 1 time already with code enforcement but i went city code office and the code officer was way off and his superviser called five brothers with me in office and took care of that got my check no prob and havent had problem out of them since.i watch everything i do to stay within laws and my employees too


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## Guest

*big mistake*



72opp said:


> Good Evening,
> 
> To be blunt, it has been a very trying time for me. I have decided to try out Five Brothers. I wish to thank everyone for their comments and/or advice. If I am going against what you advise please do not take it personally. As I said, it is trying times for me.
> 
> BPWY could you fully explain this:
> 
> 
> 
> I apologize for asking for clarification on this quote. I just want to make sure I understand what you stated.
> 
> Thanks,


I did some digging before actually signing up for 5Bros- found nothing out of the ordinary like you would find if looking up SafeGuard:laughing:

so any way signed on the week before xmas, went thru an hour meeting and then was told there is nothing in CT for us to do right now, but when they found some it'd be slow until they feel us out. That was a friday-mon few days before xmas holidays I find not one or 2, but 12 work orders mainly orders to repair for a set price-got rid of those and was left with utility orders (turn on electric etc) which if done right requires 2 trips, well they only pay for one, 25 bucks doesnt cover fuel, labor and then the constant asking of questions to which they already have answers.

Another problem was I put in a bid to replace a cast iron railing "with like kind"-I priced them and added on labor to the amont and bid it, which was 375 to fabricate and 100 to drill out holes and install properly. After all kinds of harrassment on how our bid was obtained, they emailed me and said your bid is being changed to 185., and You bid 185, please go install and submit minus discount.

Sorry but once you change the playing field, I am no longer obligated to comply. That was NOT my bid and I will not honor it:jester:

Then, 5 mins later im sent the original work order for the property with all my info contained in it, but issued to a diff vendor in CT and then a minute later another email asking me to delete the info previous emailed. 

I find my mornings more enjoyable now they no longer exist-thats right I cut em lose.:thumbsup:


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## Guest

I'm finding that they change the rules to suit them. If a toilet has mold and you bid it, they say mold is not an issue. If you get a final conveyance work order (only paying trip charge) and you leave a moldy toilet, they give you a no charge order to clean and winterize.


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## Guest

I had to cut them lose yesterday. After working for HUD for so many years I do not believe it when they say HUD changed my bid. Once my bid is changed its no longer mine. We are now doing mainly contractor direct work for Lamco and Green River-forget this field stuff anymore.


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## Guest

newenglandprop said:


> I had to cut them lose yesterday. After working for HUD for so many years I do not believe it when they say HUD changed my bid. Once my bid is changed its no longer mine. We are now doing mainly contractor direct work for Lamco and Green River-forget this field stuff anymore.


We used to work for Lamco before they started the yearly fees. I just can't see paying up front in hopes of getting work in return.


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## Guest

I'm curious, how do the big companies actually contract to do the work? If they hold a contract with HUD, then they are the GC and whoever they hire is a sub. Are these companies licensed GC's? In my state, that would require them to actually oversee the jobs and have a local employee who is the qualifying party on the license.


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## Guest

newenglandprop said:


> I had to cut them lose yesterday. After working for HUD for so many years I do not believe it when they say HUD changed my bid. Once my bid is changed its no longer mine. We are now doing mainly contractor direct work for Lamco and Green River-forget this field stuff anymore.


The big thing I wonder about is why HUD effects the pricing at all. The properties are owned by the bank and it's the banks responsibility to get the properties in convey condition before they handing them to HUD. I don't understand why HUD would even care what it costs the bank to get it to them. 
Can anyone clarify this or is it like I suspect and HUD not changing the prices as they say?


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## BPWY

newenglandprop said:


> I had to cut them lose yesterday. After working for HUD for so many years I do not believe it when they say HUD changed my bid. Once my bid is changed its no longer mine. We are now doing mainly contractor direct work for Lamco and Green River-forget this field stuff anymore.







Also they claim HUD issued a charge back when you ask for written proof they adamantly refuse to prove it. 

Yeah, that makes them look like lying sacks of poo.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> Also they claim HUD issued a charge back when you ask for written proof they adamantly refuse to prove it.
> 
> Yeah, that makes them look like lying sacks of poo.




No, It proves they are................


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## RichR

Not real clear on details, however I do know that the "Bank" is just the "Mortgagee or Servicer" of the loan. HUD Guarantees the loan and therefor is the actual owner of the property when it goes into default due to "Mortgagor" not paying Mortgage. HUD sets the fees because HUD pays for all repairs and services completed at a property as long as the "Mortgagee" or bank did not cause the damage and did their due diligent to "protect" the asset. Same goes for Fanny, Freddie and VA as I understand it.


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## Guest

SWOH REO said:


> We used to work for Lamco before they started the yearly fees. I just can't see paying up front in hopes of getting work in return.


I paid the yearly fee and now get less work from them


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## Guest

anybody getting the 101 questions emails from 5 brother on bids that you enter.(some very stupid)


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## reoguys

Just started with Five Bros and in California properties need smoke detectors, C02s, and water heater strapped. Submitted bid for these along with documentation showing it is mandatory by law. Coordinator gave approval and on the WO it stated that Five Bros is back charging the original contractor who did the initial secure at which point I inquired that I then need to go back and submit bids on ALL properties for these required items lest I be back charged. The coordinator said no, that won't happen. Why wouldn't it? So I am submitting bids on ALL properties for these legally mandatory requirements to ensure I am not back charged later on down the road when I quit working for Five Bros ... which is sooner than later like right now! It is obvious that they make up the rules as they go along always looking for ways to back charge vendors.


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## Guest

*proceed with caution*



reoguys said:


> Just started with Five Bros and in California properties need smoke detectors, C02s, and water heater strapped. Submitted bid for these along with documentation showing it is mandatory by law. Coordinator gave approval and on the WO it stated that Five Bros is back charging the original contractor who did the initial secure at which point I inquired that I then need to go back and submit bids on ALL properties for these required items lest I be back charged. The coordinator said no, that won't happen. Why wouldn't it? So I am submitting bids on ALL properties for these legally mandatory requirements to ensure I am not back charged later on down the road when I quit working for Five Bros ... which is sooner than later like right now! It is obvious that they make up the rules as they go along always looking for ways to back charge vendors.


really be diligent when it comes down to reading that mess they call a work order-avoid orders for repair, which are a giant waste of time.

after they changed my Bid for something that was enough for me to get rid of em.


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## Guest

*indeed*



STARBABY said:


> anybody getting the 101 questions emails from 5 brother on bids that you enter.(some very stupid)


another stellar reason as to why we got rid of them-they pulled that crap before they changed my bid.


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## Guest

STARBABY said:


> anybody getting the 101 questions emails from 5 brother on bids that you enter.(some very stupid)


Yes and most of the time it's already in the report. I always save a receipt so I can see exactly what I put. They will also continue to email you as if you never responded.


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## Guest

reoguys said:


> Just started with Five Bros and in California properties need smoke detectors, C02s, and water heater strapped. Submitted bid for these along with documentation showing it is mandatory by law. Coordinator gave approval and on the WO it stated that Five Bros is back charging the original contractor who did the initial secure at which point I inquired that I then need to go back and submit bids on ALL properties for these required items lest I be back charged. The coordinator said no, that won't happen. Why wouldn't it? So I am submitting bids on ALL properties for these legally mandatory requirements to ensure I am not back charged later on down the road when I quit working for Five Bros ... which is sooner than later like right now! It is obvious that they make up the rules as they go along always looking for ways to back charge vendors.


That is exactly what they do!!


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## BPWY

SWOH REO said:


> Yes and most of the time it's already in the report. I always save a receipt so I can see exactly what I put. They will also continue to email you as if you never responded.








Even when you respond to their email they ignore and keep sending the same info request from a different coordinator.
Instead of addressing your questions.


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## Guest

They never answer questions! We did a work order in December and returned to the property in January and found mold in a cabinet. We placed a bid on the mold and got a no charge work order. They sent me a picture dated November and said we need to remove and remedy the source at our own cost because we missed it at the December visit. Of course I ask why wasn't it addressed when another contractor found it! No answer to that but stated that if we didn't complete for no charge they would have another contractor complete and back charge us for their fee plus a processing fee!


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## Guest

RichR said:


> Not real clear on details, however I do know that the "Bank" is just the "Mortgagee or Servicer" of the loan. HUD Guarantees the loan and therefor is the actual owner of the property when it goes into default due to "Mortgagor" not paying Mortgage. HUD sets the fees because HUD pays for all repairs and services completed at a property as long as the "Mortgagee" or bank did not cause the damage and did their due diligent to "protect" the asset. Same goes for Fanny, Freddie and VA as I understand it.



we have no problem working or charging HUD prices for what we do in CT which costs us more than ANY OTHER State. $55 a CYD is fine with us, but then SafeGaurd or FAS or Spectrum tell ya anywhere from $20-30 a cube, and FAS wants an additional 25% if over 25 CYD.

By time you pay for a dumpster and pay the dump (we cannot just put stuff to the curb up here like in say FL) $20-30 doesnt cut it.

Five Brothers told us we do not care what your "CT HUD pricelist" our price for CYD is $50, and were real addamant about it.

If alot of you guys were paid HUD pricing I bet you would notice a big difference-have any of you even looked at pricing in your own state? Not easy to find but if ya can it will open your eyes.:thumbup:


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## Guest

SWOH REO said:


> They never answer questions! We did a work order in December and returned to the property in January and found mold in a cabinet. We placed a bid on the mold and got a no charge work order. They sent me a picture dated November and said we need to remove and remedy the source at our own cost because we missed it at the December visit. Of course I ask why wasn't it addressed when another contractor found it! No answer to that but stated that if we didn't complete for no charge they would have another contractor complete and back charge us for their fee plus a processing fee!


They tryed that on me also- I asked very sarcastically "dont you people read your own info on the work orders?"

I do not understand how they have survived for 40+ years.


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## Guest

HUD prices are fine for most things but when it comes to the amount of cubic yards they put up a fight on the big ones, saying photos only justify half of what there is. Also there are too many things that don't have a HUD price and that's when the fun begins.


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## BPWY

So whats your cost for a 30 yrd delivered and then picked up?


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> So whats your cost for a 30 yrd delivered and then picked up?


CT $550 for a 30CYD and theres an overage fee and weight limit but off hand not sure what that is.


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## Guest

I wonder why people still deal with these guys,I worked for them for about a month and figured I would make more money holding a sign on the street saying Property preservation tired of chargebacks please local realtors call me.


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## BPWY

newenglandprop said:


> CT $550 for a 30CYD and theres an overage fee and weight limit but off hand not sure what that is.








Ive seen them priced at over $800.

I guess CT isn't the most expensive state in the nation after all.


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## Guest

RichR said:


> Not real clear on details, however I do know that the "Bank" is just the "Mortgagee or Servicer" of the loan. HUD Guarantees the loan and therefor is the actual owner of the property when it goes into default due to "Mortgagor" not paying Mortgage. HUD sets the fees because HUD pays for all repairs and services completed at a property as long as the "Mortgagee" or bank did not cause the damage and did their due diligent to "protect" the asset. Same goes for Fanny, Freddie and VA as I understand it.


Its about time that The Government minds their own businees and gets out of the housing industry and leave the banks sink or rise!!!!!


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## Guest

Just went and put leins on 2 of their propertys today that are 90 days past due on payment lol...They want slowwalk me ill slow walk taking the leains off when i get paid


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## BPWY

wildnwonderful said:


> Just went and put leins on 2 of their propertys today that are 90 days past due on payment lol...They want slowwalk me ill slow walk taking the leains off when i get paid







Post their response. 

I don't imagine their clients will be real thrilled to hear that.


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## Guest

I will hopefully its there when get back the office.What pi%$ed me off was told me i couldnt put a lein on their property for 250 on the 1 and 365 for the other,so i told her we would see..I did the work and expect to be paid for it 90 days it should be done in processing.


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## BPWY

wildnwonderful said:


> I will hopefully its there when get back the office.What pi%$ed me off was told me i couldnt put a lein on their property for 250 on the 1 and 365 for the other,so i told her we would see..I did the work and expect to be paid for it 90 days it should be done in processing.







The reason for the 90 day thing is because they all get so much work from a middle man company and they stretch it out to 90 plus to see if they can get paid. Pushing ALL the risk for not getting paid onto the contractor.


I like working for local residents and commercial companies when I see most of my money in less than 30 days after it was billed for.


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## Guest

RichR said:


> Not real clear on details, however I do know that the "Bank" is just the "Mortgagee or Servicer" of the loan. HUD Guarantees the loan and therefor is the actual owner of the property when it goes into default due to "Mortgagor" not paying Mortgage. HUD sets the fees because HUD pays for all repairs and services completed at a property as long as the "Mortgagee" or bank did not cause the damage and did their due diligent to "protect" the asset. Same goes for Fanny, Freddie and VA as I understand it.


Rich,

Your thoughts on this are not correct.

The Bank / Lender, is the lender and can be the Servicer also. Though typically servicng rights are sold. Sometimes several times. It's a hell of a money making racket. That's why people always get these notices about their servicer changing. Most think that their mortgage has been sold. When in reality, most often it is the Servicing Rights that have been sold.

FHA, VA, RDA or the PMI holder are merely insurance companies. They typically only insure the Top 20% of a loan. This is why MI or PMI is typically required on loans with a LTV (Loan to value) over 80%.

Now, having said this, in order for the lenders to be able to collect on the MI / PMI policy there are certain procedures and protocols that must be met and followed. If not, they lender jeapordizes receiving anything to assist them in the event of a loss.

It's actually pretty complicated on the back side for who is responsible for what, where, when and why.... But then again, aren't most things that have the government involved.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Even when you respond to their email they ignore and keep sending the same info request from a different coordinator.
> Instead of addressing your questions.


I have found when responding, always do it on there website. This way all the coordinators see the responce.works most the time


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## BPWY

STARBABY said:


> I have found when responding, always do it on there website. This way all the coordinators see the responce.works most the time







That must be new. 

When I was with them there wasn't a way to contact them via their site.
Unless I didn't know where it was.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> That must be new.
> 
> When I was with them there wasn't a way to contact them via their site.
> Unless I didn't know where it was.


Yes there is a box under property address. I do not remember when they change it to were you could do this.


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## reoguys

If a property is found unsecured or not being properly maintained it is grounds for MI/PMI to not pay on the insurance claim. They are ALWAYS rejecting claims based on lack of service which these service companies make every attempt to pass on to the contractor ... you and I, so they don't suffer the loss and the contractor does. That's why in many cases it's more feasible for the client (bank) to foreclose than short sale or modify ... they get 75% of the balance of the loan or the value, whichever is less, less repairs and other deductions. All this is taken into account before a decision is made to foreclose, short sale or modify. It's all business and about the bottom line.


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## Guest

*Additionally insured*

Hi Linda! I'm actually signed up with you believe it or not. lol But you havent had the need in our coverage area yet. Anyway when it comes to adding someone as additionally insured..I also see no problems here. There are two different ways to add someone. One involves just getting their name and address on a certificate and is no charge at all. There is another type of adding thatI believe does cost money but i have never needed to use that one so I cant help much there. Talk to your insurance companies though. Its very possible that Five brothers is just looking for that certificate which is no charge. I wouldnt know because Im not currently signed up with them though.

Does anybody know/have 5 Brothers rate sheets. I was looking into them.


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## Guest

their pay isnt lowest and isnt best but till lately as always been on time which is 15 to 30 days with not alot of work but enough to make it worth the time i did lil over 28000 with them last year.They have a prob with communication within their dept and reps but never had probs till recently


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## Guest

JulieP,

You will get more "honey" after you do your introductions 

go to the main page and introduce yourself so everyone can say HI


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## thanohano44

juliep123 said:


> Hi Linda! I'm actually signed up with you believe it or not. lol But you havent had the need in our coverage area yet. Anyway when it comes to adding someone as additionally insured..I also see no problems here. There are two different ways to add someone. One involves just getting their name and address on a certificate and is no charge at all. There is another type of adding thatI believe does cost money but i have never needed to use that one so I cant help much there. Talk to your insurance companies though. Its very possible that Five brothers is just looking for that certificate which is no charge. I wouldnt know because Im not currently signed up with them though.
> 
> Does anybody know/have 5 Brothers rate sheets. I was looking into them.


Juliep,

They will give you their rates and you can negotiate from there. Like with most nationals.


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## GTX63

*Originally Posted by BPWY *
*Even when you respond to their email they ignore and keep sending the same info request from a different coordinator.*
*Instead of addressing your questions. *

LOL.
FIVE BROTHERS
Day 1
Frick emails a followup and says "is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
We reply and state "yes, power is on and pump is operable"
Day 2
Frack emails and says "2nd notice:is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
We reply the same as to Frick on day 1
Day 3
Frock emails and says "Final Notice. is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
We reply same as to Frack on day 2
Day 4
Fruck emails and says "Final Notice. Chargeback will occur if no reponse by 5 pm! Is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
We tell Fruck to go get Frocked, Fracked and Fricked.

Does anyone see a pattern here? Maybe five brothers should only have one brother in charge.


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## RichR

DreamWeaver said:


> Rich,
> 
> Your thoughts on this are not correct.
> 
> The Bank / Lender, is the lender and can be the Servicer also. Though typically servicng rights are sold. Sometimes several times. It's a hell of a money making racket. That's why people always get these notices about their servicer changing. Most think that their mortgage has been sold. When in reality, most often it is the Servicing Rights that have been sold.
> 
> FHA, VA, RDA or the PMI holder are merely insurance companies. They typically only insure the Top 20% of a loan. This is why MI or PMI is typically required on loans with a LTV (Loan to value) over 80%.
> 
> Now, having said this, in order for the lenders to be able to collect on the MI / PMI policy there are certain procedures and protocols that must be met and followed. If not, they lender jeapordizes receiving anything to assist them in the event of a loss.
> 
> It's actually pretty complicated on the back side for who is responsible for what, where, when and why.... But then again, aren't most things that have the government involved.


If this is true then why? :confused1:

1) Are prices set and approved by as you call them "The Insurer" (HUD, Fannie, Freddie, VA.)

2) When they convey they go to these "Insurers" to be resold. (HUD, Fannie, Freddie, VA.)

It’s time for the Banks to sink or swim like the Auto manufactures had to do.


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## Guest

Got my responce by phone call this morning for the leins.Dilly says i will have my money on next weeks check,and dally who is my state rep yet again(i have had 5 in the last 45 days) is being repremanded.Also if i dont remove the leins today i will no longer recieve work from them,,,to which i responded i will remove when i am paid not a minute sooner and i could care less if i get more work from them..Its been a good ride with them but here lately they are so full of bs its not worth my or the secretarys time.


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## GTX63

LOL, your not getting paid for what you have already completed so they think threatening to withhold new work will make any difference?


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## Guest

I guess thats the reasoning.I really dont care cause i have 6 other nats and get alot of work out of all of them,me nor my guys will go hungry..Made alot of money from them last year but oh well sh^& happens.


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## Guest

juliep123 said:


> Hi Linda! I'm actually signed up with you believe it or not. lol But you havent had the need in our coverage area yet. Anyway when it comes to adding someone as additionally insured..I also see no problems here. There are two different ways to add someone. One involves just getting their name and address on a certificate and is no charge at all. There is another type of adding thatI believe does cost money but i have never needed to use that one so I cant help much there. Talk to your insurance companies though. Its very possible that Five brothers is just looking for that certificate which is no charge. I wouldnt know because Im not currently signed up with them though.
> 
> Does anybody know/have 5 Brothers rate sheets. I was looking into them.


When its requested of us, (additonal insured) all I do is call York Jersey and tell them I need a rider. They throw their name on a cert and send it right to em. However, if our insurance lapses (happened once) everyone shuts you off till that gets straightend out.

I have the 5 Brothers rate sheet somewhere-it was the main reason why we decided to sign with them as their rates are good, till you read the fine print:laughing:


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## GTX63

York Jersey Underwriters could be a whole separate thread.


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## BPWY

GTX63 said:


> *Originally Posted by BPWY *
> *Even when you respond to their email they ignore and keep sending the same info request from a different coordinator.*
> *Instead of addressing your questions. *
> 
> LOL.
> FIVE BROTHERS
> Day 1
> Frick emails a followup and says "is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We reply and state "yes, power is on and pump is operable"
> Day 2
> Frack emails and says "2nd notice:is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We reply the same as to Frick on day 1
> Day 3
> Frock emails and says "Final Notice. is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We reply same as to Frack on day 2
> Day 4
> Fruck emails and says "Final Notice. Chargeback will occur if no reponse by 5 pm! Is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We tell Fruck to go get Frocked, Fracked and Fricked.
> 
> Does anyone see a pattern here? Maybe five brothers should only have one brother in charge.






I am sending you the bill for my PTSD therapy session. :laughing:
That really brought back a lot of old memories of my time with them.


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## BPWY

GTX63 said:


> York Jersey Underwriters could be a whole separate thread.







They are the nats favorite company because they have easy to manipulate clauses that allow the nats to back door your ins policy.
The reason these goof balls don't accept other ins companies policies is because they are not set up to where they can so easily charge fraudulent claims.


I ran into the same thing with one trucking company I was leased to many years ago. They gave me the requirement sheet that I forwarded to my commercial ins company.
My ins company told me that his policy read word for word what they wanted. But guess what....... the trucking company still would not accept it.
Illegal when you have a sub contractor agreement in place????? I would sure think so.


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## GTX63

BPWY said:


> I am sending you the bill for my PTSD therapy session. :laughing:
> That really brought back a lot of old memories of my time with them.


Then you get the dips at Safeguard.

They short your invoice because the sky is blue or their boss said to hammer all the midwest invoices on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I don't know. I can tell from all the Tiffanies, Ambers, Jessicas, etc they are in their late teens to early twenties and probably didn't know what REO meant until their training last week. You respond back, that yes, the photos are there, yes this, or this is why we did that...never get a reponse. You have to forward your email to reovendoradjustments, which is the cubicle behind the ditz that just did the kickback. He flips a two headed quarter and guess what, you lose. Leins and cutting off any work from them was the only way we seemed to get paid for that crap.


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## Guest

GTX63 said:


> *Originally Posted by BPWY *
> *Even when you respond to their email they ignore and keep sending the same info request from a different coordinator.*
> *Instead of addressing your questions. *
> 
> LOL.
> FIVE BROTHERS
> Day 1
> Frick emails a followup and says "is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We reply and state "yes, power is on and pump is operable"
> Day 2
> Frack emails and says "2nd notice:is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We reply the same as to Frick on day 1
> Day 3
> Frock emails and says "Final Notice. is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We reply same as to Frack on day 2
> Day 4
> Fruck emails and says "Final Notice. Chargeback will occur if no reponse by 5 pm! Is power on to house and sump pump operable?"
> We tell Fruck to go get Frocked, Fracked and Fricked.
> 
> Does anyone see a pattern here? Maybe five brothers should only have one brother in charge.


sounds exactly like the past 2 months-I am glad they are gone-we are doing contractor direct now for green river-they give us 20% up front and you have your check in hand 7 days after job completion. No stupid questions just how much you want and when can it be done?

:thumbup:

cant beat that


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## BPWY

SG treats me a little differently than many vendors.


I am their go to clean up guy in this area. When all else fails they call me.
I get it done for them.

Thats not to say they haven't tried to jack me a time or two. 
I take it up with my vendor manager and they begged me to continue to work for them.
I thought that was comical.


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## BPWY

newenglandprop said:


> sounds exactly like the past 2 months-I am glad they are gone-we are doing contractor direct now for green river-they give us 20% up front and you have your check in hand 7 days after job completion. No stupid questions just how much you want and when can it be done?
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> cant beat that







Got a website for them?


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## GTX63

BPWY said:


> .
> 
> Thats not to say they haven't tried to jack me a time or two.
> I take it up with my vendor manager and they begged me to continue to work for them.
> I thought that was comical.


I don't see all the insane cr*p Safeguard sends over everyday but it drives my office people crazy. Then I sit down and go thru the emails and I pop a top. I tell them that's it, don't send your stuff over anymore, bla bla. Your fired. Then the gal with the good parking space calls, they back off, I get some money back and I let them know what we will do and won't do. They are a bad romance. I'm wondering right now why we do keep them on...I think I'll notify them we're putting them on a 30 days probation.


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## BPWY

GTX63 said:


> They are a bad romance. I'm wondering right now why we do keep them on...I think I'll notify them we're putting them on a 30 days probation.








They'll know you are quitting.

Instead take a 45 day medical leave, this allows your w/os to process thru and you'll get paid. 
Then quit.

If you straight up quit you run the risk of a lot of BS charge backs.
What are you going to do about it then?


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## GTX63

The probation bit wasn't serious. A friend of mine in another state was put on probation by Safeguard. He had to call in weekly or some such, write up and submit a plan and course of action on improving his scores and shortening his turn around time, agree to hire staffing to make sure updates were done right and on time. I told him if he wasn't so dumb he'd be crazy. A 54 year old man explaining himself to a 20 year old.
Honestly, think about the people you deal with at Safeguard, FAS, Five Brothers, Cyprexx, etc...
If they came into your office and applied for a job would you hire any of them? Common sense=0 Professionalism=0 Ethics=0 Courtesy=0
Honesty=0 Trade Knowledge=0
The really bad ones go out and start their own Assett Companies so they can screw you some more.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> Got a website for them?


Their mission statement doesn't fit your style Paul.......................

"*GRC believes that in today's market, micro management and flexibility in repairs of REO Assets is required to obtain the best possible sales results. "*


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## BPWY

What was I thinking any way?

Since when did "micro management" and "flexibility" fit in the same sentence????????


I'm planning on quitting P&P in less than 2 months. I get a little jumpy when we don't have much income coming in. But it looks like we might get two snow events in the next 5 to 7 days. Daddy likes that better than nasty stinky bank owned houses. 
Even plowing ALL night is better than the olfactory assault that comes from these houses.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Got a website for them?


greenrivercap.com

we got in thru a broker we know, you can ask about "vendor direct", if you run into problems let me know Ill see if I can get you a contact.:thumbsup:


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## JFMURFY

juliep123 said:


> Hi Linda! I'm actually signed up with you believe it or not. lol But you havent had the need in our coverage area yet. Anyway when it comes to adding someone as additionally insured..I also see no problems here. There are two different ways to add someone. One involves just getting their name and address on a certificate and is no charge at all. There is another type of adding thatI believe does cost money but i have never needed to use that one so I cant help much there. Talk to your insurance companies though. Its very possible that Five brothers is just looking for that certificate which is no charge. I wouldnt know because Im not currently signed up with them though.
> 
> Does anybody know/have 5 Brothers rate sheets. I was looking into them.


They use ML-18 less 20$.... but be careful they have an different understanding of ML-18. Board-ups for example- HUD ML-18 indicates $80 per window... Certain 5 BRos Reps read it to say $0.80 per unit inch...which it doesn't say. I went round and round with them on this ...logically explain the exact vebiage of the HUD spec on on Board-ups. Had half their crew agree with me and the other stuck to the $0.80 per unit inch...so that proves to me...they don't know what they're doing.


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## Guest

We did work for the siblings (pre-ML1018) that was when we left. The martial-swift cost estimator is the demise of us contractors. 
When i submit a bid for $600, and they come back ON THE APPROVAL with $60.00... thats really the end of the line for me. I started writing paragraphs for a $25.00 dollar bid.

We had approx 80-90 houses to cut grass at twice a month, and at HUD prices, came to $64.00 after discount, which is an unbelievable amount of money to be made. As of the 2011 grass cut season, you received $20.00 before discount.. on the same damn houses. 

which reminds me, I have never seen a house actually convey. 

I could write a novel on my experiences with that company.
If you take it on the chin for your opens person a few times, it does go along way, just be charismatic on the phone, and that will go far. 
you will be trusted by them as long as your not really stupid about the industry. 

I truly liked working for them, (YES I SAID IT)but things did get really out of hand once the Marshall-Swift cost estimator came into play. 
They way i seen it at that time is, they received 20% of our money, after the ML-1018 regs came we lost 75% of our revenue, so in turn, they lost large amounts of money at the same time, from all high-volume contractors. 

come 2011, it was a full time job answering the same questions over and over again like somebody else stated previously. 

I would recommend them as a company to work for, however I would stay in probation as long as possible, and dont plan to make tons of money with them, its just not going to happen. btw, they are a bleach and killz advocate, so good luck on that part


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## BPWY

Preserve This said:


> which reminds me, I have never seen a house actually convey.







Yeah, whats up with that? They had fewer houses convey than any other client I worked for.


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## Guest

In 18 months with them ive never seen 1 convey either....Yes stay on probation as long as possibe i made it a year and half made some money but not worth the hassle of stupid redundant questions that are asked evryday for 4 days till you finally have to get nasty


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## BPWY

They kicked me off probation in like 4 months. Wonder what I did wrong. lol


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## Gypsos

What is ML1018 please?


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## BPWY

Gypsos said:


> What is ML1018 please?







Check your email.


I've got it on my hard drive but the file size is too big for the site's servers.


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## mtmtnman

I have had 3 convey in the last month. The last one a week ago today was first assigned to me in May 2009!!!!!


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## BPWY

For the siblings????




Thats a shock.


I can drive past houses I was doing for them in '09 and '10.


STILL empty and unkept.


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## Guest

Gypsos said:


> What is ML1018 please?


Google ml-1018 HUD


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> I have had 3 convey in the last month. The last one a week ago today was first assigned to me in May 2009!!!!!


I do many final convey orders, over and over on the same properties. Not sure what they're waiting for?


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## mtmtnman

SWOH REO said:


> I do many final convey orders, over and over on the same properties. Not sure what they're waiting for?


Same thing here for the most part.......


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> I have had 3 convey in the last month. The last one a week ago today was first assigned to me in May 2009!!!!!


My convey all the time. 3 in Jan. 2 already this month.
Just didn`t a Fanni Mae for Cyprexx(clean out) that coveyed from 5 brothers Last year.

My biggest problem with them is there cost estimator. I beginning to think there pulling these numbers from there a**. They want you to resummit bid per there numbers. No thanks I can sit at home and not make any money.


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## Guest

Same here, final conveyance, final conveyance, then somebody sets it on fire, all the same stuff... squaters move in, I ask the same thing.. look I bid this house 2 years ago, you have approved not 1 thing, why aree u asking if its CC yet.
Really I could write a damn novel on experiences. 

Bit check this... one time ans inspector from some national, who cares which. But he said that they won't convey houses, they will let them keep getting vandalised, then theinsurance claim kicks in, and everybody in line has theihand out, fix the house per insurance scope, doesn't convey, justgets vandalised again, process stars back over.. seems highly illegal in some sort. But its just what an inspector told me, doesn't mean its true


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## thanohano44

Preserve This said:


> Same here, final conveyance, final conveyance, then somebody sets it on fire, all the same stuff... squaters move in, I ask the same thing.. look I bid this house 2 years ago, you have approved not 1 thing, why aree u asking if its CC yet.
> Really I could write a damn novel on experiences.
> 
> Bit check this... one time ans inspector from some national, who cares which. But he said that they won't convey houses, they will let them keep getting vandalised, then theinsurance claim kicks in, and everybody in line has theihand out, fix the house per insurance scope, doesn't convey, justgets vandalised again, process stars back over.. seems highly illegal in some sort. But its just what an inspector told me, doesn't mean its true


They must not value their CPI vendor, Balboa life and casualty.


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## Guest

Has anyone been pushed on hot and heavy by zvn....received 3 emails and a phone Call today for Kentucky PO work?


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## BPWY

There is or was a ZVN thread some where around here.


This one is for 5 Brothers topic.


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## Guest

I have been with 5 brothers now for about a month.I am a one time vendor but I am getting 3-4 work orders a day as a one time vendor.

I give no discounts,have about 5 day deadlines and all and all its been ok.

They do seem way off in the office.


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## thanohano44

lynnwood said:


> Has anyone been pushed on hot and heavy by zvn....received 3 emails and a phone Call today for Kentucky PO work?


Don't do it.


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## JFMURFY

MKM Landscaping said:


> I have been with 5 brothers now for about a month.I am a one time vendor but I am getting 3-4 work orders a day as a one time vendor.
> 
> I give no discounts,have about 5 day deadlines and all and all its been ok.
> 
> They do seem way off in the office.


Good morning... I grabbed the same lure you're currently doing... not say whether or not you should continue... just be prepared as your currently are in the "training" phase with them... after a while they'll bing you in you'll do the 20%-25% discount. And then you'll be bombarded with dozens of emails from different 5 Bros clerks on the same issue you thought you settled weeks after submitting the work.
BE SURE TO DOCUMENT ALL CONVERSATIONS WITH WRITTEN EMAIL FOLLOWUPS... SAVE ALL CORRESPONDENCE, PHOTO'S AND WORK ORDERS AND WEB GENERATED INVOICES AFTER ZEPHYR SUBMISSION. 
BEEN THERE DONE THAT...


----------



## GTX63

X2. They seem to have too many people working on the same orders; they don't seem to talk to eachother and they will drive you nuts.


----------



## Guest

JFMURFY said:


> Good morning... I grabbed the same lure you're currently doing... not say whether or not you should continue... just be prepared as your currently are in the "training" phase with them... after a while they'll bing you in you'll do the 20%-25% discount. And then you'll be bombarded with dozens of emails from different 5 Bros clerks on the same issue you thought you settled weeks after submitting the work.
> BE SURE TO DOCUMENT ALL CONVERSATIONS WITH WRITTEN EMAIL FOLLOWUPS... SAVE ALL CORRESPONDENCE, PHOTO'S AND WORK ORDERS AND WEB GENERATED INVOICES AFTER ZEPHYR SUBMISSION.
> BEEN THERE DONE THAT...


I would assume that after some time they will be PTA.Right now they are paying 40 c/y trashout and lots of inspections.When they want to bring me on I will proally pull the trigger and back away.I am just taking extra work until lawn season.


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## Guest

*Good companies*

So who are the good companies to work for. I can sure use some


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## HollandPPC

A&A Property said:


> So who are the good companies to work for. I can sure use some


Spend five minutes and use the search button. You can find the answers for yourself.


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## GaReops

Anyone else noticed slow pay lately from 5 bros? Or should I say "slower than normal"


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## GTX63

No, just wish the checks they sent were a little easier to breakdown.


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## Guest

GaReo said:


> Anyone else noticed slow pay lately from 5 bros? Or should I say "slower than normal"


no, wish all paid like them


----------

