# How do you handle BOA orders?



## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

Any of you that work for SG, have seen these order come out that state (paraphrasing) "You have up to 5K to put the property ICC. Expenses above typical thresholds will be scrutinized and undergo additional quality control to ensure fair pricing was invoiced"

Now for me, this is a recipe for disaster. They don't tell you what they want done, don't tell you what they will pay you, and you have to wait until after you've sent in your invoice to find out.

How are you guys handling these orders? I've been trying to pin them down on just what they want done and get them to agree to a price prior to starting any work, but its like pulling sore teeth out of a mad bear.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Bid it


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

I've told them either it is stated on the Wo or it will be bid. Not gonna get screwed by doing the work and then letting them decide if they are going to pay me.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

I do a couple a week of these orders. They want it in convey fix everything to put it in if you can't put it in convey call from site and 90% of the time they approve more funds over the phone. I have been approved over 30k on this type of order.

This includes all convey damages. If your worried just call your regional get a poc and your covered. No big deal.


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

well, at least we are consistent. That's what I've been doing too. But, they have been re-opening some of the orders and telling me to go back and use the 5K, without telling me my bids are OK of course. Most of the time I make my estimate of damages total more than the 5K. But sometimes that just doesn't work. 

The real problem is they aren't consistent on what ICC means. We all know the HUD line - All properties conveyed to HUD should be undamaged by fire, flood, earthquake, tornado, hurricane, or boiler explosion (for condominiums) or damage resulting from Mortgagee neglect. 

But, they want a water heater present. All HVAC equipment must be present. Sometimes mold is an ICC issue, sometimes its not. Sometimes there must be a kitchen range present, sometimes not. And the mold, HVAC and water heater have nothing to do with mortgagee neglect, fire, flood, or hurricanes. So, without knowing just exactly what they want, I bid the stuff and if they re-open the order, I pin them down on just what they want, and what I will be paid. Or they can send some other schmuck out to lose his @ss.


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> I do a couple a week of these orders. They want it in convey fix everything to put it in if you can't put it in convey call from site and 90% of the time they approve more funds over the phone. I have been approved over 30k on this type of order.
> 
> This includes all convey damages. If your worried just call your regional get a poc and your covered. No big deal.


Yours may be different. I almost never get to speak to my regional, ever, unless she calls me. And calling from site, how do you estimate a 30K job from site? Not saying you can't but, I don't think I want too. 

I guess my real problem is, if I've already sent them a list of damages and estimates, why don't they send me a work order with details specifying what's to be done and a price I can invoice. That way everybody knows what's what and there isn't any hard feelings later.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> Yours may be different. I almost never get to speak to my regional, ever, unless she calls me. And calling from site, how do you estimate a 30K job from site? Not saying you can't but, I don't think I want too.
> 
> I guess my real problem is, if I've already sent them a list of damages and estimates, why don't they send me a work order with details specifying what's to be done and a price I can invoice. That way everybody knows what's what and there isn't any hard feelings later.


Get a POC. Then you know exactly what they want done and what you're getting paid for.


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## Weisspropmaintenance (Mar 8, 2013)

well if you are working for SG then you had to have signed the new agreement which means you cannot place a lean on the property for non payment of work done, so then they paraphrase it like this and people see ohh they will put up to 5k into it and they do 5k worth of work and get paid for 2500 3k if they are lucky. I tell them this is my price the rest is bid.


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

I have almost never had problems with invoice cutting on these orders. My regional didn't get involved in these but if you can pin down whoever sends the order and give them a list of items,I have had them tell me which are icc and which are not. they generally won't approve pricing ahead of time but if it's under the 5k, like I said, I have had few issues with my invoice being cut. These are usually very good orders to be getting, we love them.


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> I have almost never had problems with invoice cutting on these orders. My regional didn't get involved in these but if you can pin down whoever sends the order and give them a list of items,I have had them tell me which are icc and which are not. they generally won't approve pricing ahead of time but if it's under the 5k, like I said, I have had few issues with my invoice being cut. These are usually very good orders to be getting, we love them.


I've not had any problems either, but I try to get it in writing. I guess I'm just gun shy. I've been working with these people for long enough to know when I'm sticking my neck out and asking for it to be chopped off.

It's the "up to" part that sticks in my craw. I really try to do a good job and invoice honestly for work performed. But, when you get those notes saying "Your bid is too high and we reduced it to X before sending it to the client." I have a little trouble trusting them to pay my invoice after the work is done.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Check Came next day after this post went up?


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

I kick back any bid not modified by me or with out my authorization cuts down a lot of back and forth and saves cell phone time for actual conversations


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Just got burned by my last Safeguard job. We do not now nor have we ever worked for Safeguard. I received a call from a certain company out of Michigan that does Safeguard work asking us to do them a few favors. We were never paid for these favors so finally I sent them and Invoice stating that we needed paid or else. We were paid all but $200.00.
> 
> I assume this put your contractor off then settle is a strategy that is very effective with the hard up desperate crowd. We however aren't hard up for cash and it's not even the amount in question it's the strategy I despise.
> 
> ...


While you got burned on this SG job by a regional, this is the kind of thing that is confusing to others. SG didn't screw you, a regional did. I see it both here and the FB group of people bringing nationals names into the conversation when they had nothing to do with you not getting paid.

I do agree however that the putting the contractor off and settle strategy is very common with regionals.


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## PPC (Oct 20, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> Any of you that work for SG, have seen these order come out that state (paraphrasing) "You have up to 5K to put the property ICC. Expenses above typical thresholds will be scrutinized and undergo additional quality control to ensure fair pricing was invoiced"
> 
> Now for me, this is a recipe for disaster. They don't tell you what they want done, don't tell you what they will pay you, and you have to wait until after you've sent in your invoice to find out.
> 
> How are you guys handling these orders? I've been trying to pin them down on just what they want done and get them to agree to a price prior to starting any work, but its like pulling sore teeth out of a mad bear.


We get these types of work orders all the time and never have had a problem getting paid. Just do not do more than what ICC requires.


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

PPC said:


> We get these types of work orders all the time and never have had a problem getting paid. Just do not do more than what ICC requires.


Well that's the whole rub right there. What does ICC require? It's too vague. 

"All properties conveyed to HUD should be undamaged by fire, flood, earthquake, tornado, hurricane, or boiler explosion (for condominiums) or damage resulting from Mortgagee neglect."

Mortgagee neglect could be anything, or nothing. And what does a missing handrail have to do with any of those items mentioned? Or boarding a crawlspace? These aren't mortgagee neglect, they are mortgagor neglect.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Mortgagee neglect is the service company not taking care of the property. Examples not addressing a roof leak in a timely manner, not addressing mold and it grows more, not securing a property and somebody steals stuff.

Mortgager neglect is people just plan being dirt asses and not taking care of the property.


You forget water and mold damage, you can make some serious money on water damage. Just about every house has signs of water damage.






BamaPPC said:


> Well that's the whole rub right there. What does ICC require? It's too vague.
> 
> "All properties conveyed to HUD should be undamaged by fire, flood, earthquake, tornado, hurricane, or boiler explosion (for condominiums) or damage resulting from Mortgagee neglect."
> 
> Mortgagee neglect could be anything, or nothing. And what does a missing handrail have to do with any of those items mentioned? Or boarding a crawlspace? These aren't mortgagee neglect, they are mortgagor neglect.


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

I know the difference in the definitions of "mortgagee" and "mortgagor". It's making that work with the definition of ICC that's the problem.

The definition provided by HUD is great. The interpretation of that definition by the banks and SG is the problem.

When I was first starting out I tried and tried to get someone to provide me a list of items that would affect ICC. Nobody could do it.


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> I know the difference in the definitions of "mortgagee" and "mortgagor". It's making that work with the definition of ICC that's the problem.
> 
> The definition provided by HUD is great. The interpretation of that definition by the banks and SG is the problem.
> 
> When I was first starting out I tried and tried to get someone to provide me a list of items that would affect ICC. Nobody could do it.


Yeah one interesting example is on handrails. I get paid on them on the 5k orders if they are exterior handrails, as they said that's a convey issue. But, if I bid it on any other order, never gets approved before it conveys.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> While you got burned on this SG job by a regional, this is the kind of thing that is confusing to others. SG didn't screw you, a regional did. I see it both here and the FB group of people bringing nationals names into the conversation when they had nothing to do with you not getting paid.
> 
> I do agree however that the putting the contractor off and settle strategy is very common with regionals.


It's interesting that shortly after this post the rest of my money appeared in the form of an overnighted check.

I am starting to think this board is a little like that thing a woman sits on. If you figure out how to use it there are powers beyond comprehension.


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> It's interesting that shortly after this post the rest of my money appeared in the form of an overnighted check.
> 
> I am starting to think this board is a little like that thing a woman sits on. If you figure out how to use it there are powers beyond comprehension.


Beware they are watching. :detective:


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> I know the difference in the definitions of "mortgagee" and "mortgagor". It's making that work with the definition of ICC that's the problem.
> 
> The definition provided by HUD is great. The interpretation of that definition by the banks and SG is the problem.
> 
> When I was first starting out I tried and tried to get someone to provide me a list of items that would affect ICC. Nobody could do it.


I'll bet the same guy that can negotiate pricing for the nationals could do it. I think his name is either "I dunno" or "I am not allowed to do that."


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## Stateline (Jan 3, 2013)

i loved these orders, my company had a about a 2 page list of what type of things you could do, you can easily use the $5000 without trying to gouge the bank. I always just did basic cc stuff such as locks, small debris, capping handrails etc. then bid out any repairs and they usually get approved. My experience is as long as you BATF at a fair price you will not run into any problems (although who knows with safeguard) don't try charging $500 a room for carpet removal though.


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