# Contractors Make a Killing on the $20 grass cut



## browneyedgirl

Was working today inside a home and another contractor was mowing now keep this in mind the grass height was over 62 inches this contractors tells me they got this yard for 20 bucks and had 70 more all for 20 bucks poor soul. I told them good luck with that! You cannot make any money I told them I bid the yard was not going to touch it for 20 bucks I guess since it was a CV loan they found a poor sapp that would do it for the price they wanted They also made mention that they did a 35cyd cleanout for 125.00 and when they went to the dump there dump bill was 120.00 Keep in mind though they said they made 80 thousand last year WHATEVER!


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## Valley

browneyedgirl said:


> Was working today inside a home and another contractor was mowing now keep this in mind the grass height was over 62 inches this contractors tells me they got this yard for 20 bucks and had 70 more all for 20 bucks poor soul. I told them good luck with that! You cannot make any money I told them I bid the yard was not going to touch it for 20 bucks I guess since it was a CV loan they found a poor sapp that would do it for the price they wanted They also made mention that they did a 35cyd cleanout for 125.00 and when they went to the dump there dump bill was 120.00 Keep in mind though they said they made 80 thousand last year WHATEVER!



HAHA.............:whistling2:

And they just keep oming


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## Sicoupe06

The grass was 5 feet tall? Wow lol


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## STARBABY

You can`t fix stupid!


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## GTX63

Sounds like the new normal.


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## jack125

that's your $ 20.00 cuts


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## GTX63

USA strong baby.


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## browneyedgirl

Sicoupe06 said:


> The grass was 5 feet tall? Wow lol


 During my first visit at the property over two weeks ago that tall didn't have to worry about retaking measurements this time since they where whacking away at it


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## Sicoupe06

Murica!


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## Cleanupman

wonder if they have insurance and a Business License????


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## Craigslist Hack

browneyedgirl said:


> Was working today inside a home and another contractor was mowing now keep this in mind the grass height was over 62 inches this contractors tells me they got this yard for 20 bucks and had 70 more all for 20 bucks poor soul. I told them good luck with that! You cannot make any money I told them I bid the yard was not going to touch it for 20 bucks I guess since it was a CV loan they found a poor sapp that would do it for the price they wanted They also made mention that they did a 35cyd cleanout for 125.00 and when they went to the dump there dump bill was 120.00 Keep in mind though they said they made 80 thousand last year WHATEVER!


What company? They were most likely working for a regional?

We just took on more work in KY and I will have trouble covering some of it for National pricing. I can't imagine doing it for $20.00


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## Valley

Cleanupman said:


> wonder if they have insurance and a Business License????




I think you can get them in cracker jacks now


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## Gypsos

jack125 said:


> View attachment 317
> 
> 
> 
> that's your $ 20.00 cuts


I think this guy is brilliant. We have a local salvage yard that had a couple of 60" cut pull behind mower decks, complete with 10 HP engines. All they needed was grease and new belts. 

I actually toyed with the idea of building a rig to tow one on each side of my mower so I could cut a large property I had at the time faster. I would have been able to cut 14' per pass. That will make an acre or three go by fast.


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## tak

Grossing 80k is way different than netting 80k. 
I gross 150-200k every year but I do not net that figure at all. Some people just don't know what the true cost of the cut or debris removal is.


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## foreverlawn

Wow that is incredible! It sounds like the company that contacted us.


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## Cleanupman

tak said:


> Grossing 80k is way different than netting 80k.
> I gross 150-200k every year but I do not net that figure at all. Some people just don't know what the true cost of the cut or debris removal is.


This was why I made a video series on cost analysis, and other business terms...will have them available on our website soon....I know shameless self promotion....but you are 100% Correct not many understand what the break even point is on those $15 and $20 lawn cuts....


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## nurumkin

*re*

I could probably be talked into doing $20 cuts if they were all in the same city and I didn't get jacked around with payment.(assuming they were being regularly mowed before I got them)

I could do 70 cuts in 1.5-2 days. So assuming it's a flat $20 that's $1400 minus about $100 for fuel (truck and mower) and I have a buddy who is a stay at home dad who does my invoicing for $1 per and I would net about $1200 for 2 good days of work. But those are ideal conditions, the fact is they are going to expect an inspection with every one and use it as a reason to not pay me. 

So if they were honest I could probably be talked into $20 cuts but they are not so I cannot.


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## hammerhead

Not that I would do either but I would rather do $20 Lawns than $35 maid services


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## STARBABY

hammerhead said:


> Not that I would do either but I would rather do $20 Lawns than $35 maid services


I`ll pass on both! I`ll go back to turning wrenches for living before working that cheap!


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## MNanny

nurumkin said:


> I could probably be talked into doing $20 cuts if they were all in the same city and I didn't get jacked around with payment.(assuming they were being regularly mowed before I got them)
> 
> I could do 70 cuts in 1.5-2 days. So assuming it's a flat $20 that's $1400 minus about $100 for fuel (truck and mower) and I have a buddy who is a stay at home dad who does my invoicing for $1 per and I would net about $1200 for 2 good days of work. But those are ideal conditions, the fact is they are going to expect an inspection with every one and use it as a reason to not pay me.
> 
> So if they were honest I could probably be talked into $20 cuts but they are not so I cannot.


Let me see if I understand. 70 cuts in 1.5 or 2 days. Figure 18 hours. 1 12 hour day and 1 6 or 2 9 hour days. That's 4 cuts an hour. By yourself since you mention no pay. Cut, whack, gather clippings and fallen twigs and a minimum of 12 pictures. 6 before and 6 after. No PCR. Add drive time. 
I want to be your Lois Lane, Superman.


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## thanohano44

nurumkin said:


> I could probably be talked into doing $20 cuts if they were all in the same city and I didn't get jacked around with payment.(assuming they were being regularly mowed before I got them)
> 
> I could do 70 cuts in 1.5-2 days. So assuming it's a flat $20 that's $1400 minus about $100 for fuel (truck and mower) and I have a buddy who is a stay at home dad who does my invoicing for $1 per and I would net about $1200 for 2 good days of work. But those are ideal conditions, the fact is they are going to expect an inspection with every one and use it as a reason to not pay me.
> 
> So if they were honest I could probably be talked into $20 cuts but they are not so I cannot.


Then you are a part of the problem. I made $25 cuts work for a few months as filler work. I started to notice that those who do $25 cuts don't give a da-mn. The work was half hearted at best. Clippings blown into a corner of the property or under trees and shrubs. 

In my opinion, a company paying $20 a cut must not value their vendors. Their properties etc. they are setting themselves up to fail. When the inspectors fail them for the substandard work from the other dimwits and back charges your client. Guess what happens next. The regional loses work. Might not get paid and might even stuff you. You hear a lot of these stories. Your willingness to work for peanuts is part of the recipe for fu-ckery.


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## nurumkin

MNanny said:


> Let me see if I understand. 70 cuts in 1.5 or 2 days. Figure 18 hours. 1 12 hour day and 1 6 or 2 9 hour days. That's 4 cuts an hour. By yourself since you mention no pay. Cut, whack, gather clippings and fallen twigs and a minimum of 12 pictures. 6 before and 6 after. No PCR. Add drive time.
> I want to be your Lois Lane, Superman.



ack, let me restate that (I edited it before i posted and missed the important part) it was meant to read. 

I could probably be talked into doing $20 cuts if they were all in the same city and I didn't get jacked around with payment.(assuming they were being regularly mowed before I got them) And I didn't have to deal with the inspection BS or bagging the clippings. 

I can and have cut 4 lawns an hour. I have also done 30 lawns in a day that also included 400miles of driving. 
But 4 lawns an hour in the same town = about 10 hours plus maybe another 2 hours of drive time. Even if I drop it to 3 lawns per hour (which I can do 15k lawns in). Thats still only about 12 hours. I prefer to work 16 or 18 hour days for 2 or 3 days and then taking a few days off.


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## npm

thanohano44 said:


> Then you are a part of the problem. I made $25 cuts work for a few months as filler work. I started to notice that those who do $25 cuts don't give a da-mn. The work was half hearted at best. Clippings blown into a corner of the property or under trees and shrubs.
> 
> In my opinion, a company paying $20 a cut must not value their vendors. Their properties etc. they are setting themselves up to fail. When the inspectors fail them for the substandard work from the other dimwits and back charges your client. Guess what happens next. The regional loses work. Might not get paid and might even stuff you. You hear a lot of these stories. Your willingness to work for peanuts is part of the recipe for fu-ckery.


I too have bern trying to make some $25 cuts work in a 15 mile radius of my shop. At first I got the impression that all I was doing is cleaning up after others. Now that I've been curting them n a reg its nicer. 

note my $25 cuts are for under 5000 sq ft lots and a highly urban areas. Also the client pays 12-14 days after cut.


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## thanohano44

npm said:


> I too have bern trying to make some $25 cuts work in a 15 mile radius of my shop. At first I got the impression that all I was doing is cleaning up after others. Now that I've been curting them n a reg its nicer.
> 
> note my $25 cuts are for under 5000 sq ft lots and a highly urban areas. Also the client pays 12-14 days after cut.


Amigo, while they're getting paid between $76-$62 for them based off of your state. You're doing 80% of the work and shouldering all responsibility for 30% of the money. 

I understand the 5k lots. That's the same thoughts I had when we did those on AZ. Then the rules changed for up to 15k SF lots to be included. Very little profit if any. 

Cleanupman has a fantastic profit checking tool. See if he'd sent it to you. It breaks down your actual profit on a job.


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## thanohano44

thanohano44 said:


> Amigo, while they're getting paid between $76-$62 for them based off of your state. You're doing 80% of the work and shouldering all responsibility for 30% of the money.
> 
> I understand the 5k lots. That's the same thoughts I had when we did those on AZ. Then the rules changed for up to 15k SF lots to be included. Very little profit if any.
> 
> Cleanupman has a fantastic profit checking tool. See if he'd sent it to you. It breaks down your actual profit on a job.


Continued. We did them as filler inbetween the $75 recuts $55 recuts from our large clients. Then we noticed a few of our $55-$75 cuts started coming from the $25 cut guys. You're undercutting yourself.


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## FearlessTeapot

The majority of regionals pay $20-$30 for recuts. There's just not enough money to pay more much of the time. For example, MCS pays $50-$60 a cut in Florida. Take their 30%-ish discount out, there's not too much leeway. The industry shifted to National->Regional->Subs several years back when they started requiring large coverage areas and 'preferred vendors.' Then prices started dropping across the board. The industry is nowhere near as profitable for a regional as it used to be. I'm not justifying lowballing the subs or anything, but the industry has cannabilized itself. The Nationals are going to end up forcing the Regionals out of the game, and will simply have to expand their own companies drastically to deal with the micromanagement needed to corral subs.


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## npm

thanohano44 said:


> Amigo, while they're getting paid between $76-$62 for them based off of your state. You're doing 80% of the work and shouldering all responsibility for 30% of the money.
> 
> I understand the 5k lots. That's the same thoughts I had when we did those on AZ. Then the rules changed for up to 15k SF lots to be included. Very little profit if any.
> 
> Cleanupman has a fantastic profit checking tool. See if he'd sent it to you. It breaks down your actual profit on a job.


I'm only doing it for filler work with my other clients 2 nationals that pay hud rate minus 20% discount. Once I clean them up they're not bad. A lot are wfhm and batf lots. Oh I know very little profit that's why the small coverage area.

The pay us better then AMS abd cyprexx $35 recuts up to acre. Acre lots are $65 with him my other clients anywhere from $150-$200 depending.


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## STARBABY

Cyprexx $35 lawn cuts are not working out to good for them around here! Most are only doing a perimeter cut and per the Realtor the lawns are getting cut twice a month if that! 

Cyprexx needs to realize that a contractor is going to make up for the lose some were!


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## browneyedgirl

Sorry been busy hadn't had a chance to get back but You would think by now they would understand that you get what you pay for I wonder how these companies sleep at night knowing they are requesting contractors to do 20 dollar grass cuts on properties that are 4 to 6 times over the allowable grass height skip that they sleep like babies and laughing all the way to the bank I think they said they worked for Vanderbilt don't quote me on that slept since then


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## hammerhead

need this for them cheap cuts, That way you can do 10 an hr. plus no need for a truck and trailer.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/17/honda-mean-mower-hits-60-mph-in-4-seconds-cuts-to-130-mph-w-vi/


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## Gypsos

hammerhead said:


> need this for them cheap cuts, That way you can do 10 an hr. plus no need for a truck and trailer.
> 
> http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/17/honda-mean-mower-hits-60-mph-in-4-seconds-cuts-to-130-mph-w-vi/


 
I wants one... please...


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## Craigslist Hack

FearlessTeapot said:


> The majority of regionals pay $20-$30 for recuts. There's just not enough money to pay more much of the time. For example, MCS pays $50-$60 a cut in Florida. Take their 30%-ish discount out, there's not too much leeway. The industry shifted to National->Regional->Subs several years back when they started requiring large coverage areas and 'preferred vendors.' Then prices started dropping across the board. The industry is nowhere near as profitable for a regional as it used to be. I'm not justifying lowballing the subs or anything, but the industry has cannabilized itself. The Nationals are going to end up forcing the Regionals out of the game, and will simply have to expand their own companies drastically to deal with the micromanagement needed to corral subs.


The industry needs to be rid of all regionals. Regionals are 90% of the problem. If no one will work for the cut pricing that will bring about change.


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## FearlessTeapot

I wouldn't say it's the fault of the Regionals, actually. The Nationals are the ones cutting the prices - the subs hate the Regionals because that's where the sub's dwindling paychecks are coming from. 

Here is the situation- The Nats all used to pay $100 grasscuts. They used to also pay $1.50 per photo, $30 trip charges, etc. They decided to step away from using individual subs as the overhead costs of managing that many people were prohibitive. They basically created the need for Regionals by telling their existing contractors that they had to expand and cover huge areas. The 'preffered vendors' then had to hire subs to get the work done. This was the first cut to the subs pay, as now there was a middleman - but it wasn't too bad as prices were still fairly high, and the average sub saw his volume increase.

Then prices that the Nats were willing to pay started to drop. Trip charges are $10 from some Nats. Recuts, average $50-$60. No more money for photos, etc. Then you take out a discount. In addition, expectations increased. CL requires you to cut up to 24" for the allowable, processing became far more picky. Constant chargebacks, pay disputes, etc. Used to be 4 photos for a grasscut was all you would need, now you have to label each individual photo (Front Right Before, Front Right After, etc) and supply 2-3 times the photos. If you miss an angle or they determine it wasn't quite enough? Chargeback a year from now. 

As the prices plummeted, Regionals paid their Subs less. As the Nats started asking for more and more 'free' work, the Regionals told the subs to get it done. Obviously, this has the Subs hating the Regionals, but it really is a trickle down effect. The Nats created the beast, and are the only ones profiting from it.


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## Craigslist Hack

FearlessTeapot said:


> I wouldn't say it's the fault of the Regionals, actually. The Nationals are the ones cutting the prices - the subs hate the Regionals because that's where the sub's dwindling paychecks are coming from.
> 
> Here is the situation- The Nats all used to pay $100 grasscuts. They used to also pay $1.50 per photo, $30 trip charges, etc. They decided to step away from using individual subs as the overhead costs of managing that many people were prohibitive. They basically created the need for Regionals by telling their existing contractors that they had to expand and cover huge areas. The 'preffered vendors' then had to hire subs to get the work done. This was the first cut to the subs pay, as now there was a middleman - but it wasn't too bad as prices were still fairly high, and the average sub saw his volume increase.
> 
> Then prices that the Nats were willing to pay started to drop. Trip charges are $10 from some Nats. Recuts, average $50-$60. No more money for photos, etc. Then you take out a discount. In addition, expectations increased. CL requires you to cut up to 24" for the allowable, processing became far more picky. Constant chargebacks, pay disputes, etc. Used to be 4 photos for a grasscut was all you would need, now you have to label each individual photo (Front Right Before, Front Right After, etc) and supply 2-3 times the photos. If you miss an angle or they determine it wasn't quite enough? Chargeback a year from now.
> 
> As the prices plummeted, Regionals paid their Subs less. As the Nats started asking for more and more 'free' work, the Regionals told the subs to get it done. Obviously, this has the Subs hating the Regionals, but it really is a trickle down effect. The Nats created the beast, and are the only ones profiting from it.


Regionals are parasitic companies that do nothing but cut prices and create more miscommunication. The more people something involves the more convoluted it becomes. 

I don't disagree with your opinion regarding nationals. They are awful. The fact is we have worked for regionals, and nationals. It's far easier to work direct for a national where you can dial a number and talk to someone that MIGHT be able to get you an answer than it is to call someone who still has to make 2 more calls while you sit in a driveway. 

We have actually been a regional ourselves in the past. We did it to meet our clients needs and because we were naive enough to believe that we could do it better. We thought we had identified where others were failing and that we had a solution. All we did was perform poorly for our clients, upset our contractors, and lose thousands of dollars each month. I woke up one day and realized I was self employed but I was working for them. We were trying to be the company they wanted us to be. Trying to meet their deadlines and expectations and we were doing it by following other companies business model. I had to ask who are WE? Where is our identity? What do we want?

The business model we employ today is working. The business is still very fluid so you have to be flexible and we still had to meet deadlines but we only take the ones we want. We refuse bad jobs and we have even kept a few bad clients. We take the jobs we want and turn down or refuse the ones we don't. We also do more remodeling, relocation, and realtor work. I'm not getting 30,000.00 a month from AMS any more but I also won't suffer if they lose a contract or change their pricing and guidelines. I prefer more checks from more companies to having all my work come from one company.


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## FearlessTeapot

Craigslist Hack said:


> The fact is we have worked for regionals, and nationals. It's far easier to work direct for a national where you can dial a number and talk to someone that MIGHT be able to get you an answer than it is to call someone who still has to make 2 more calls while you sit in a driveway.


There is no way it is easier to work for a National than a Regional. These days, the Regional is typically the dedicated processing house. When you send your work in to a Regional, you usually just have to email a gaggle of photos and your invoice, and you're done. When you send it on to a nat, you have to label everything on their proprietary website, fill out lengthy PCRs, supply bids/cost estimators/etc on every single recut for stuff that won't get approved anyway (If you don't, you do the work for free), deal with constant Returns/Chargebacks. Also, I'm not sure what Nat you worked for, but none I've ever worked for allow you to 'turn down bad jobs.'

Look, I get that you hate Regionals. I also hate the need for them. I just don't fault them unduly. They were created by the Nats. They get a lot of hate around here, and I think much of the criticism is unwarranted. If you are lucky enough to get bank direct work, awesome. For many people, it's not possible, and to work for Nats in many areas you have to go through a Regional. It's not the Regional's fault, it's the Nats policy.


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## npm

I've turned down "bad jobs" by declining with yhe statement of "unable to complete and provide results by due date" most are on the strict "grading system" anymore. I just had thus debate with a national about overbidding. I stated that's my polite way of telling you I don't want the job but if I get it I won't complain. Her answer is " what about hhe other contractor (s) that will do work at lower price all the time? " 

Not my problem he doesn't control my business and you can't force my company to do a job st a loss if I provided proper detailed bids yo justify.

Conversation didn't end well


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## Craigslist Hack

FearlessTeapot said:


> There is no way it is easier to work for a National than a Regional. These days, the Regional is typically the dedicated processing house. When you send your work in to a Regional, you usually just have to email a gaggle of photos and your invoice, and you're done. When you send it on to a nat, you have to label everything on their proprietary website, fill out lengthy PCRs, supply bids/cost estimators/etc on every single recut for stuff that won't get approved anyway (If you don't, you do the work for free), deal with constant Returns/Chargebacks. Also, I'm not sure what Nat you worked for, but none I've ever worked for allow you to 'turn down bad jobs.'
> 
> Look, I get that you hate Regionals. I also hate the need for them. I just don't fault them unduly. They were created by the Nats. They get a lot of hate around here, and I think much of the criticism is unwarranted. If you are lucky enough to get bank direct work, awesome. For many people, it's not possible, and to work for Nats in many areas you have to go through a Regional. It's not the Regional's fault, it's the Nats policy.


Guess you didn't read the part where I used to be a regional. We covere 3 states and parts of 2 other states for several Nationals. I am very familiar with processing work orders. I can also tell you that when a contractor just sent in a jumbled mess of photo's my processor ended up calling them 45 times for clarification. The processor would invariably do some guessing from time to time to meet deadlines or avoid chasing down some contractor. The result of that guessing is bad work. Bids with inaccurate measurements, debris totals, basement pump outs, and pool coverings at properties that have no basement or pool. I have seen it all and then some. It is far easier in the long run to work direct for Nationals than to be some 10.00 an hour processor at XYZ regionals bitch. It takes a little longer to upload these days yes but when my guys go to a property to do work our debris counts are correct, our measurements are on point. We don't accept another companies bids. 

As for declining work I have yet to see a single contract that states you HAVE to accept every work order. A contract such as that would be illegal. If I get resistance when declining a work order I recite back to them their own verbage. My brother is an attorney and he has reviewed every contract we have ever signed. We have bloodied up and initialed changes on several of them as well. 

Each National can also choose not to use us. That's fine with me. We will NEVER work for Safegaurd, FAS, Cyprexx and a few others. 

I also object to Cost Estimators and fight constantly with 5 brothers in this issue.


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## Craigslist Hack

npm said:


> I've turned down "bad jobs" by declining with yhe statement of "unable to complete and provide results by due date" most are on the strict "grading system" anymore. I just had thus debate with a national about overbidding. I stated that's my polite way of telling you I don't want the job but if I get it I won't complain. Her answer is " what about hhe other contractor (s) that will do work at lower price all the time? "
> 
> Not my problem he doesn't control my business and you can't force my company to do a job st a loss if I provided proper detailed bids yo justify.
> 
> Conversation didn't end well


You don't have to justify anything. No is all you have to say. 

They make it so hard to get on with a national that they don't have many options. Then they get a regional that hires hacks who will do it for nothing. Now we are having to provide a background check on all of our employees and with each upload we have to provide the client with who did the work. Eventually they will bust a few companies out for claiming they did work when in fact they had a crew do it. That will start narrowing the field considerably.


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## FearlessTeapot

Craigslist Hack said:


> Guess you didn't read the part where I used to be a regional.


What makes you think that?

I simply disagreed with you. I happen to work at a Regional. We used to be a sub, years ago. We were required to expand or lose our work. Our company has been going over 30 years now. We have worked for nearly every National company there is, and many Regionals as well over the years. None of our crews send anything more than a batch of photos and an invoice. None of our Regionals ever required more than that. Nationals, on the other hand, require FAR more processing. 

I had a far different experience than you appear to have had.


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## cutting grass

I am new to p&p work
Been cutting the grass on foreclosed properties for 2.5 years
And actually probably on my way out of this work 
I don't know all the lingo and abbreviations some of you use

But my 0.02¢ or $20
Is that any company, bank , mortgage company, investor or what have you
That sends money down the line to a national, knowing that the national passes money/work orders down the line to company's that pay out $20 dollar for recuts are all part of the problem

So in a nut shell
Government-for allowing this to happen-part of the problem
Banks and other companies that knowingly send work to others that end up paying $20 recuts-part of the problem
Nationals that send work down the line to others that pay $20 recuts-part of the problem
Regionals that only pay $20 recuts- part of the problem
And to some degree anybody that goes out and does it for $20-part of the problem
Myself included


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## Craigslist Hack

FearlessTeapot said:


> What makes you think that?
> 
> I simply disagreed with you. I happen to work at a Regional. We used to be a sub, years ago. We were required to expand or lose our work. Our company has been going over 30 years now. We have worked for nearly every National company there is, and many Regionals as well over the years. None of our crews send anything more than a batch of photos and an invoice. None of our Regionals ever required more than that. Nationals, on the other hand, require FAR more processing.
> 
> I had a far different experience than you appear to have had.


How can you tell me how many Linear feet of gutter need replaced from a photo and an invoice? How can you tell how many square ft of mold needs treated from pics and an invoice?

You can't! It's obvious you are very pro Regional. I simply see no need for their existence. They are parasitic it's as simple as that. They get work from Nationals in territories that they can't cover so they hire someone else to do the work. They then take that guys money.

If the regional did not exist the national would have to deal with the contractor direct and the contractor would make 25-35% more for his work. The EXACT same work he is doing now. 

Tell me how it helps the contractor to do a grass cut for $30.00 that he could be getting $80.00 for? The contractor could pay an uploader $10.00 an hour to upload photo's and still bank an extra $40.00 per grass cut.

Maybe I am thinking too logically?


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## FearlessTeapot

Craigslist Hack said:


> How can you tell me how many Linear feet of gutter need replaced from a photo and an invoice? How can you tell how many square ft of mold needs treated from pics and an invoice?


Experience.



Craigslist Hack said:


> It's obvious you are very pro Regional. I simply see no need for their existence. They are parasitic it's as simple as that. They get work from Nationals in territories that they can't cover so they hire someone else to do the work. They then take that guys money.


I believe I've already stated that I hate the need for Regionals. But the Regionals didn't carve out their own niche, the Nationals forced them into their role. We had far fewer headaches and made just as much money as a small group of people doing the work ourselves. But that market dried up in our area, you either had to cover half the state or got nothing at all.



Craigslist Hack said:


> If the regional did not exist the national would have to deal with the contractor direct and the contractor would make 25-35% more for his work. The EXACT same work he is doing now.
> 
> Tell me how it helps the contractor to do a grass cut for $30.00 that he could be getting $80.00 for? The contractor could pay an uploader $10.00 an hour to upload photo's and still bank an extra $40.00 per grass cut.


I've made that point myself. The National, however, does not WANT to deal with the subs. They created the Regional to do that, so that they could lower their own overhead. The Nat can now pay the same amount to a single person and not have to worry about combing Craigslist for people and keeping contractors corralled. 


Craigslist Hack said:


> Maybe I am thinking too logically?


No, you are simply arguing with blinders on. I'm not disagreeing with most of what you said. I'm simply stating that you are hating the wrong person.


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## GTX63

cutting grass said:


> So in a nut shell
> Government-for allowing this to happen-part of the problem
> Banks and other companies that knowingly send work to others that end up paying $20 recuts-part of the problem
> Nationals that send work down the line to others that pay $20 recuts-part of the problem
> Regionals that only pay $20 recuts- part of the problem
> And to some degree anybody that goes out and does it for $20-part of the problem
> Myself included


Cutting Grass, the government is what got this mess started. They are the problem as a whole. Everytime they back a loan they are the problem.
The Nationals and Regionals are not the problem; they are the result.


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## Craigslist Hack

FearlessTeapot said:


> Experience.
> 
> 
> I believe I've already stated that I hate the need for Regionals. But the Regionals didn't carve out their own niche, the Nationals forced them into their role. We had far fewer headaches and made just as much money as a small group of people doing the work ourselves. But that market dried up in our area, you either had to cover half the state or got nothing at all.
> 
> 
> I've made that point myself. The National, however, does not WANT to deal with the subs. They created the Regional to do that, so that they could lower their own overhead. The Nat can now pay the same amount to a single person and not have to worry about combing Craigslist for people and keeping contractors corralled.
> 
> No, you are simply arguing with blinders on. I'm not disagreeing with most of what you said. I'm simply stating that you are hating the wrong person.



It's nothing personal man but regionals hurt everyone. They may be making life easier for the nationals but that is not my goal. I HATE nationals almost as bad as I despise regionals. 

MH Landscaping is trying to sub work all over our area for $15.00 a grass cut. They have ZERO business being in our area. If they didn't tell Scamgaurd that they could cover our area maybe a local landscaping company could get a decent wage to do the work. 

You are arguing in vain to justify your existence. It's not justifiable! I see why it is how it is and I understand how it came to be. I also see that it can be corrected. The first step is to eliminate regionals. Then eliminate Nationals.


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## GTX63

FearlessTeapot said:


> There is no way it is easier to work for a National than a Regional. These days, the Regional is typically the dedicated processing house. When you send your work in to a Regional, you usually just have to email a gaggle of photos and your invoice, and you're done. .


You must have got up for another cup and a smoke break and left out some typing. But for the sake of discussion, can you name a single legitimate regional that accepts photos and invoice only in order to receive payment at the completion of work?


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## GTX63

FearlessTeapot said:


> They basically created the need for Regionals by telling their existing contractors that they had to expand and cover huge areas. The 'preffered vendors' then had to hire subs to get the work done.


Actually, of the 35 or so Regionals that we have dealt with in the past half dozen years of so, the majority of them were run by former National middle management types who saw the money train and quit the salaried/hourly jobs in Ohio or Florida and started their own "ACME" preservation companies. They used to pirate the Nationals contractor's sub; now CL and Labor Ready/Home Deport parking lot are their friends.
I was just informed this week that we are out $1600 on a job. The regional swept all the receivables off the desk and into his pocket and filed a BK on the biz. Seems to be a common practice with some of them.
We'll go directly to the bank and get our $.


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Actually, of the 35 or so Regionals that we have dealt with in the past half dozen years of so, the majority of them were run by former National middle management types who saw the money train and quit the salaried/hourly jobs in Ohio or Florida and started their own "ACME" preservation companies. They used to pirate the Nationals contractor's sub; now CL and Labor Ready/Home Deport parking lot are their friends.
> I was just informed this week that we are out $1600 on a job. The regional swept all the receivables off the desk and into his pocket and filed a BK on the biz. Seems to be a common practice with some of them.
> We'll go directly to the bank and get our $.



Finally some one gets it! They are the very definition of parasites. 

His argument that the Nationals created the regionals is the equivalent of a drug addict saying he had to rob people the drugs made him do it. In this case the regionals have to rob people the nationals make them do it.


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## FearlessTeapot

GTX63 said:


> You must have got up for another cup and a smoke break and left out some typing. But for the sake of discussion, can you name a single legitimate regional that accepts photos and invoice only in order to receive payment at the completion of work?


Sure. Our company.

And since you are deliberately trying to just be a dick instead of making a valid argument, that's my last word in this thread.


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## GTX63

Wow. 

I'm not trying to get under your skin, just into your mindset.
I'm speaking from a position of facts and first hand knowledge of dozens of nationals and regional companies, and while some may think this forum is full of sour grapes, there are many personal accounts of the underhandedness of regional outfits. Since you seem to be the exception to the rule, why don't you link your webpage and give some of the folks here an opportunity to benefit?


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## GTX63

FearlessTeapot said:


> And since you are deliberately trying to just be a dick instead of making a valid argument


By the way, that is an attitude my office staff seem to hear a lot when they dispute invoice cuts with regionals. Just saying....


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> By the way, that is an attitude my office staff seem to hear a lot when they dispute invoice cuts with regionals. Just saying....


You asked for facts. You won't see him again in this thread. 

I can guarantee that if he tells us who he is and who he works for we can find several contractors that feel they have been burned. 

I know a few regionals that try very hard to be good companies. Friends of mine in fact and it still doesn't make sense to work for them.


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## GTX63

I think there may be a misconception on my part. At one time I may have considered myself a regional, as we went where the work order sent us, regardless of state. It wasn't my intention to act as a franchise.There are contractors who become a "regional", and then there are corporate suits that cash out a 401k for their own new start up and the only outside work they do is walk from their SUV into their office suite. I'm not sure where Mr. Teapot falls.


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## Cleanupman

GTX63 said:


> Actually, of the 35 or so Regionals that we have dealt with in the past half dozen years of so, the majority of them were run by former National middle management types who saw the money train and quit the salaried/hourly jobs in Ohio or Florida and started their own "ACME" preservation companies. They used to pirate the Nationals contractor's sub; now CL and Labor Ready/Home Deport parking lot are their friends.
> I was just informed this week that we are out $1600 on a job. The regional swept all the receivables off the desk and into his pocket and filed a BK on the biz. Seems to be a common practice with some of them.
> We'll go directly to the bank and get our $.



Bingo....


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## thanohano44

GTX63 said:


> Actually, of the 35 or so Regionals that we have dealt with in the past half dozen years of so, the majority of them were run by former National middle management types who saw the money train and quit the salaried/hourly jobs in Ohio or Florida and started their own "ACME" preservation companies. They used to pirate the Nationals contractor's sub; now CL and Labor Ready/Home Deport parking lot are their friends.
> I was just informed this week that we are out $1600 on a job. The regional swept all the receivables off the desk and into his pocket and filed a BK on the biz. Seems to be a common practice with some of them.
> We'll go directly to the bank and get our $.


Sorry to hear. Yikes. This happened to me 3 times as well. I can think of 3 regionals that I have worked for that I would recommend.


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## ontimepres

Several before SG took over BAC ... US Best for example. 



GTX63 said:


> You must have got up for another cup and a smoke break and left out some typing. But for the sake of discussion, can you name a single legitimate regional that accepts photos and invoice only in order to receive payment at the completion of work?


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