# When is Enough Enough???



## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

This is a statement I made to a company yesterday when I was asked to asked to be specific about some of the issues we have all faced in this industry for the past couple of years...and only..at least to me...seem to be getting worse daily
Please tell me one of you have something in regards to the "correct terminology" subject mentioned..
All comments on any subject matter of the post are welcome!!!

Happy reading...

We haven't been screaming loud enough for the pertant parties to hear us for the past two years?????
As I said in a post regarding similar subject matter...what is going to take before...enough is enough?
>Will we have a tragic child injury on a job because someone can not afford a baby sitter while performing these services?
>Will some hiway fatality happen because someone does not have the proper credentials working for these second and third level companies because the nationals refuse to stop using them?
> Will there be a major lawsuit involving the entire industry because we are not allowed to use the correct terminology...MOLD...
>How long is it going to be before the bleach and kilz backfires because these companies are traded on the NYSE and have to monitor the bottom line and would rather put a bandaid on something the requires open heart surgery....
>How many people have filed bankruptcy in the past 18 months because they were coonvinced "volume" was the answer to $40 winterization services???

I have volunteered to assist with field training..ON MY DIME...with every organization our company has work with just so there would be some consistancy in our coverage area...
>Why the big seceret of who the vendor network is in a coverage area????
> Why won't the major nationals a share that information so the local vendors can work together providing the national with the highest quality service possible???
>Why does the vendor have to spend $5,000.00 in travel, hotels, rental cars etc to come to a convention to receive information?
>Why do the "boots on the ground" companies have to change their business model to accomodate the fat cats?

Just sayin'...
well askin'...


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Very simple answer to this.

If you not comfortable doing the job quit.
If you not comfortable treating a property with bleach bid to fix it correctly, they don't like it quit.

Simple answer if you can't make money quit. 

Your not going to change the way a bank works if you can't make money quit


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

*when its enough*

Just got this in an email and the stream seemed correct to post here 


1. Initial Inspection with systems test / up to 2 locks changed (24 Hour Timeline) $75 Flat Fee 2. Dry Winterization (24 Hour Timeline, to be included with Initial Inspection) $50 Flat Fee

A RESPONSE WITH AGREEMENT TO PRICING IS REQUIRED. 

Further information to follow. 



when you get an email like this and actually consider replyin " yea send some over " yup thats when its enough
24 hr turnover i guess there is no rush charge premium on this or is the 75 the premium and future pricing to be negotiated when its not rammed up there butt


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

michael.biasi said:


> Just got this in an email and the stream seemed correct to post here
> 
> 
> 1. Initial Inspection with systems test / up to 2 locks changed (24 Hour Timeline) $75 Flat Fee 2. Dry Winterization (24 Hour Timeline, to be included with Initial Inspection) $50 Flat Fee
> ...


Got the same email......


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> Very simple answer to this.
> 
> If you not comfortable doing the job quit.
> If you not comfortable treating a property with bleach bid to fix it correctly, they don't like it quit.
> ...


 
Sorry to offend you wmhcl...
but it this precise attitude that allows these issues to continue to progressively get worse in the industry...
Would you let one of your children purchase a home the you knew had The "bleach and kilz" treatment vs. a mold remediation/abatement???

I'm sorry but you need to have the courage to say no...
QUITING is not the answer. I have more integrity than that...


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

JDRM said:


> Got the same email......


 
PK or AMS???


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

cleanupman said:


> pk or ams???


ams.....


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

OUr response was...

Excuse me???


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

You don't offend me at all.

The real problem is why you are completing the bleach and killz treatment!!! Do you complete it because they threat a chargeback??? If that's the cause your not a business owner and you should close your business because it's your business and not your clients. You need to run your business not have your business run you

I work for sg and locals and I do a ton of mold work over 100k a year for sg and they have never approved bleach and killz for me.

If its a small amount mold say under 100sqft the chemicals to treat it correct with fungicide and foster or a different brand of encaplsuation product its not that much at all. Maybe under 15 in product.


You are bidding the jobs wrong, bid to abate the mold bid to treat with fungicide and seal with foster 50, don't let them tell you how to bid. Remember your a sub conctractor and they can't make you bid it that way. If you don't want to do mold say you don't have pollution insurance and your not covered, believe me they don't make you complete the work.

The really problem I see is the conctractors wanting to squeeze every nickel out of every job. Guys that have never treated mold shouldn't be touching the stuff. when I go to the vendor conference all the guys bitch about reporting damages and never getting paid to repair them. You are doing an inspection reporting damages and giving eyeball estimate that's it, your not in the rehab business. Most guys in the p&p business couldn't float what it takes do rehabs for a bank client on average my acount rec is over 60k a month and its been at the high 150k. On insurance work it takes sometimes 90 plus days to get paid. 





Cleanupman said:


> Sorry to offend you wmhcl...
> but it this precise attitude that allows these issues to continue to progressively get worse in the industry...
> Would you let one of your children purchase a home the you knew had The "bleach and kilz" treatment vs. a mold remediation/abatement???
> 
> ...


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> You don't offend me at all.
> 
> The real problem is why you are completing the bleach and killz treatment!!! Do you complete it because they threat a chargeback??? If that's the cause your not a business owner and you should close your business because it's your business and not your clients. You need to run your business not have your business run you
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry but you have interpreted this incorrectly...I did not say I did any of the above.
We REFUSE to do bleach and kilz...That was a question I posed to a member of NAMFS...

my goal with this thread is to gather information...especially about mold vs "discoloration"


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

> Will there be a major lawsuit involving the entire industry because we are not allowed to use the correct terminology...MOLD...

IT has to be disclosed in the purchase and sale agreement LAW 


LOOK AT YOUR GL insurance. I CAN'T hire a remediation company and be covered under my GL. It is in the contract. If the national can't understand that PISS OFF is what I say to them. I WON"T risk loosing everything I have for one of their dumbass properties. Grow a set, get the prescription filled and PUSH BACK AS HARD AS IT TAKES !! I have been doing this for 7 years. IS it getting easier? YES because of the regularity in which I have to do it. Enjoyable ? NO More along of the lines of moronic when t hey don't know whom they are dealing with !! It just becomes a cat and mouse game. I don't care if they call it discoloration fading stains or what ever. NO means NO, is it the N or the O that is confusing them ??? Don't know and don't care. THEY YES THEY have a contract and if they were to treat us better they would not have as many _*SELF inflicted*_ headaches. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE INDUSTRY but are welcome to try. Learn the habits and mannerisms of those you work for, CONTROL the things you are in control of, and ORDAIN YOUR destiny !! Its ALL about working them over as much as they are working you over. BE diplomatic and let them have YOUR way.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Perhaps everyone shuould go read the entire thread...I'm not looking for solutions to complete or not complete...Our company REFUSES to do the kilz and bleach thing...We don't care if it is 6 inches...period ...we do not use the term "discoloration" we say mold...
The question stemmed form a post I made asking NAMFS to explain the opening paragraph of their home page...

Again I gathering information...
I have spoken and I have been told YOUCANT' USE THE WORD MOLD YOU HAVE TO SAY DISCOLORATION...
We're looking for something in writing...

Maybe everyone will understand a little better if they read the entire thread...here's the link...

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswer...tID=107397872&trk=view_disc&ut=38Ge6j35Pbw5w1


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> Perhaps everyone shuould go read the entire thread...I'm not looking for solutions to complete or not complete...Our company REFUSES to do the kilz and bleach thing...We don't care if it is 6 inches...period ...we do not use the term "discoloration" we say mold...
> The question stemmed form a post I made asking NAMFS to explain the opening paragraph of their home page...
> 
> Again I gathering information...
> ...


 
Yes YOU have missed the point. PUSH BACK. If it isn't right DON'T do it. It isnt worth loosing what you have. NO is a simple word and when told I can't do it because i'm not covered they back off. I have a copy of my NO MOLD clause to show them. I bet your GL policy' (not being cheeky if you have GL just saying laws are different in different states, nothing personal in any way) has the same clause, talk to your agent. If they threaten reassignment. "DO it and quit playing the pathetic threatening card" is what they are told here. Nationals WILL NOT change till they , as is happening, start to realize the FEW contractors they have left are starting to have the power. I am seing it here and it is about time. If they want it remediated then there is NOTHIN stopping them from going direct to a remediation company and having it done. NEXT SUBJECT PLEASE


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

I have also lost out on a lot of work for this reason. When you can clearly see that the MOLD has penetrated the drywall then there is no way to bleach clean and cover with KILZ.
I always bid to remove the drywall. Then after 5 or 6 times of arguing with them because I will not do it their way, they get another bone head to do it.
Oh well that is fine with me, at least I will not be sued for it.
Rather lose $5000.00 now than $50,000.00 later in fines.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Maybe I come off a little hard, Im not saying you do the bleach thing I'm just using it as example that I would say to a rookie conctractor.

I'm sorry if I offend you, I like to agrue.

I love the discussion I like to hear both sides, it helps me run and sell work to my clients in a more informed way


What clients use discoloration anymore, I'm not into working with regional and idiots. It been about 3 years since I heard a local agent calling mold that and I known sg hasn't used that term in about 1.5 years. They sent a memo out that if you used discoloration you would have to return and repair at your cost.



Cleanupman said:


> I'm sorry but you have interpreted this incorrectly...I did not say I did any of the above.
> We REFUSE to do bleach and kilz...That was a question I posed to a member of NAMFS...
> 
> my goal with this thread is to gather information...especially about mold vs "discoloration"


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> Maybe I come off a little hard, Im not saying you do the bleach thing I'm just using it as example that I would say to a rookie conctractor.
> 
> I'm sorry if I offend you, I like to agrue.
> 
> ...


 
We are lucky here...very dry...DRY...so not a lot of mold...so no our insurance does not cover this...I would not be able to justify the premimum...
I make the report and walk away....
I have though inspected a couple properties that the mold had qrown through the coat of kilz.....


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> Sorry to offend you wmhcl...
> but it this precise attitude that allows these issues to continue to progressively get worse in the industry...
> Would you let one of your children purchase a home the you knew had The "bleach and kilz" treatment vs. a mold remediation/abatement???
> 
> ...


I applaud your integrity, if that means a hill-a-beans to you... but integrity was a product of the 50's an 60's... it has since lost it's luster. If the industry had more contractors like you it would be a better place to work.
Until a coalition is established with "standards & practices" it will continue to disintegrate. NAMFS... it's a joke. pay'em $350 (_I think that was membership dues 12 years ago when I joined and quit soon after_), for what ...with Banks an Nationals as members an directors...we all know it's the fox watchin the hen house. 
When you have thousands of Regionals working for several hundred Nationals each interpreting guidelines in accordance with their own bottom line, guidelines get lost in the shuffle.
Anybody with a lawn mower, snow plow or tool set can do this business, whether or they make $$$ at is another story. 

The only simple answer is as WHMLC put it, if your not comfortable with it attempt to change it or quit.
If your not willing to quit... contact your state and national politicians, put a bug in their ear, maybe if "enough" legitimate contractors contact their representatives the track of this Industry can change course.


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> Perhaps everyone shuould go read the entire thread...I'm not looking for solutions to complete or not complete...Our company REFUSES to do the kilz and bleach thing...We don't care if it is 6 inches...period ...we do not use the term "discoloration" we say mold...
> The question stemmed form a post I made asking NAMFS to explain the opening paragraph of their home page...
> 
> Again I gathering information...
> ...


 
It black and white, and sometimes it's green Mold by anyother name it's still mold... which is a respiratory hazard to humans... Whom ever told you use discoloration is mis-informed an dancing around an issue I won't entertain.... IT's FREAKIN MOLD.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> You don't offend me at all.
> 
> The real problem is why you are completing the bleach and killz treatment!!!  Do you complete it because they threat a chargeback??? If that's the cause your not a business owner and you should close your business because it's your business and not your clients. You need to run your business not have your business run you
> 
> ...






You've obviously never worked for a lot of the nationals out there that DEMAND bleach and kilz.
They do not allow "proper" bids.


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

BPWY said:


> You've obviously never worked for a lot of the nationals out there that DEMAND bleach and kilz.
> They do not allow "proper" bids.


I have never been told I had to bid bleach/kilz route. I have heard 5Bros does that though. SG has told me they need me to bid that route a couple of times but I have just explained that we can't complete that way. For the most part I think all we've gotten approved is when we do mold on concrete block or maybe minor paneling/drywall in basement. All jobs larger than that we've bid high and not gotten approved. 

In at least two specific cases, other vendors vendors have painted over the damaged drywall, since I wouldn't do it. One of them was probably 3k-4k SF of mold, probably 1000 sf of drywall on main level included in that. Someone painted it all. Crazy someone would do that. Of course I report/bid the mold everytime we get a convey check as some is coming back through the paint, and I know it's still present.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

I LOVE MOLD 

I also love it when the realtors call when the property is finally going up for sale and the Home Inspector finds the mold (easy to find with a trained eye) and it fails the Indoor Air Quality Test. NO Mortgage till its remediated SO.....only 2 things can happen:
1) sell to a cash buyer/investor at a greatly reduced amount
2) Remediate and pass the Clearance Testing

Either result can lead to the last contractor that treated being held responsible IF they did not follow Standard Industry Guidelines (S520). In the "not to distant past" the unlicensed/uncertified was allowed to walk with hardly a worry of being held responsible BUT not anymore. 

Also, The reason why the banks/service companies do NOT want anything labeled mold is because they would have to disclose on the Sales Disclosure Forms. MOLD is a result of a water loss..... Once Disclosed its a huge loss on the value of the home. 

Splinterpicker is correct that you cannot "legally" hire any subcontractor for mold and have protection if you don't carry the same amount of coverage as the sub that is hired. Understand that this holds true also...for anyother hazard removal such as lead or asbestos or other excluded occupations on your CGL. 

It is VERY SMART to have your insurance agent fully explain how a CGL Policy works for General Contracting.... SOME of the newer policies won't allow a G.C. to hire anyone else in a trade you are not licensed for (without purchasing additional endorsements). This means: If you are not a plumber than you cannot hire a plumber as a sub to complete plumbing without the "other trades" endorsement otherwise you have no "blanket" liability coverage for your exposure as the General Contractor. This could apply to roofing, electrical, plumbing, hvac......

KNOW what your insured for.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Yes finding out "after the fact" is extremely costly....


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Splinterpicker said:


> there is NOTHIN stopping them from going direct to a remediation company and having it done. NEXT SUBJECT PLEASE







None of them wish to do this because they are so used to getting the P&P contractor to take the fall for every thing and to basically be their bank roll.

A legit remediation company is going to play by a different set of rules than what they've done to the P&P contractors. 
They are going to have to put money down, make a payment part way thru if its a big job and then a final within so many days after completion. 
This is not within their wait 90 to 120 days to pay business model.
Also they know that if they don't pay the property will get liened. They don't want to play that game either.




Tough ______. Times are changing and I have no doubt that their past illegal and unethical practices have in a big way been responsible for some of the
insurance policy languages and exclusions changes that we are seeing today.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

I only work for cyprexx and sg I won't work for anybody else becasue I have and I don't like any of. So this is how they work:

SG and cyprexx will provide a draw if the job is over 5k they give you a 15% draw before the job even starts, when its 50% completed they give you a another draw and when its completed they give you another draw. Total draw amount is around 75% of the job. Both SG and cyprexx do this. Then the remaining balance is paid after a 3rd party inspection has pasted. You usually get your check within 30 days, if something happened on the 3rd party inspection it takes longer. The 3rd party inspectors are not the smartest guys in the world. You also have to provide building permit and city sign offs.

So you don't known what you talking about, most of the nationals provide draws you just have to asked for them. They don't provide them on P&P work, only on insurance, claims, rehab work. But 95% of p&p orders are under 3k.

I have conctractors that are my sub and they provide me with terms of net 45. I have electrians, HVAC guys, plumbers, framers, drywall, finish and they all provide net 45 terms its super common in the construciton word.

Believe me I'm not on SG or cyprexx side, but it makes us conctractors look stupid when we fire of remarks about them not paying or following rules when we don't even known and you are guessing.

SG and Cyprexx both want you to make money they have it setup so you do, in insurance work they don't even take a discount because they known the margins are tight and the 3rd party software only has 10% overhead and 10% profit built into the bid.

Lets also remember what property preservation is: Secure the propety, protect the property and report damages. Alot of guys are wanting to be repairs conctractors instead of doing what they are hired to be, P&P conctractors.

I'm sign up with cyprexx and sg as both a P&P conctractor and repairs conctractor. If you want to fix the properties and fix them right sign up to be a repairs contractor alot less headaches. In repairs you fix all the damages that p&p conctractors reported and believe me most p&p guys don't known anything about construction.








BPWY said:


> None of them wish to do this because they are so used to getting the P&P contractor to take the fall for every thing and to basically be their bank roll.
> 
> A legit remediation company is going to play by a different set of rules than what they've done to the P&P contractors.
> They are going to have to put money down, make a payment part way thru if its a big job and then a final within so many days after completion.
> ...


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> I only work for cyprexx and sg I won't work for anybody else becasue I have and I don't like any of. So this is how they work:
> 
> SG and cyprexx will provide a draw if the job is over 5k they give you a 15% draw before the job even starts, when its 50% completed they give you a another draw and when its completed they give you another draw. Total draw amount is around 75% of the job. Both SG and cyprexx do this. Then the remaining balance is paid after a 3rd party inspection has pasted. You usually get your check within 30 days, if something happened on the 3rd party inspection it takes longer. The 3rd party inspectors are not the smartest guys in the world. You also have to provide building permit and city sign offs.
> 
> ...


Hey who do you deal with at Cyprexx on this I have two service providers telling me a different story about them...
Perhaps because they are service provders and not a GL????


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

I deal with about 15 people over at cyprexx. It says they provide draws on any orders above $5k on every single order they send. They don't hide the fact, just ask the repair anaylst to send it to accounting. 

You deal direct with cyprexx or thru a middleman? They are easy to deal with no uploading, you just email them the photos on repairs and claims work.


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> I deal with about 15 people over at cyprexx. It says they provide draws on any orders above $5k on every single order they send. They don't hide the fact, just ask the repair anaylst to send it to accounting.
> 
> You deal direct with cyprexx or thru a middleman? They are easy to deal with no uploading, you just email them the photos on repairs and claims work.


4 years ago I got a call from cyprexx and the LAST it was for a rehab and their prices werre CRAP. A lady tried telling me I could NAIL down underlayment to a concrete floor float it and put vinyl over it.! ?? Never have I been told this before. After the 3 rd return trip to the property I said NO . Sounds like they have changed for the better


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

There driving me nuts! Got a house that has been empty 3 years. Old guy died and kids took what they wanted 3 years ago. Nothing but 500+ RECORDED off TV Beta tapes, Cheap desk and misc junk. Even though Montana code reads:
_*Redemption*_​ 

_*Although the old statutes provided for a one year right of redemption, the Small Tract Financing Act eliminates the borrower's right to redeem after a properly conducted foreclosure sale.*_
They want us to post and store it locked in a bedroom. 30 yards of crap and it's gotta be hauled UPSTAIRS to lock in a bedroom and inventoried!!!! What a bunch of jokers!!


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

I have always bid work for them and they have always paid my prices. I have about a 60percent close rate with them. I use xactimate and run 15 overhead and 10 profit on all estimate and they are fine with it. I get a lot more bids approved one I started using a program for estimates

They make vinyl that goes over concrete floor and you don't even need glue or underlayment cyprexx has a contract with shaw floor and they ship you the material



Splinterpicker said:


> 4 years ago I got a call from cyprexx and the LAST it was for a rehab and their prices werre CRAP. A lady tried telling me I could NAIL down underlayment to a concrete floor float it and put vinyl over it.! ?? Never have I been told this before. After the 3 rd return trip to the property I said NO . Sounds like they have changed for the better


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

I have been getting a bunch of these lately too. In the seven years I think I have been approved to store personnel maybe 3 times. Last month I completed 15 orders storing personnel a




mtmtnman said:


> There driving me nuts! Got a house that has been empty 3 years. Old guy died and kids took what they wanted 3 years ago. Nothing but 500+ RECORDED off TV Beta tapes, Cheap desk and misc junk. Even though Montana code reads:
> _*Redemption*_​
> 
> _*Although the old statutes provided for a one year right of redemption, the Small Tract Financing Act eliminates the borrower's right to redeem after a properly conducted foreclosure sale.*_
> They want us to post and store it locked in a bedroom. 30 yards of crap and it's gotta be hauled UPSTAIRS to lock in a bedroom and inventoried!!!! What a bunch of jokers!!


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Cypricks are crooks. They might change their colors to look pretty but underneath their cover they are still as*es.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> I have been getting a bunch of these lately too. In the seven years I think I have been approved to store personnel maybe 3 times. Last month I completed 15 orders storing personnel a



There blaming GMAC on this but i'm betting they are telling GMAC it has to be done this way. That way they make extra $$$$$ on the job. Their paying dearly for this as it is 130 miles away..........


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> Cypricks are crooks. They might change their colors to look pretty but underneath their cover they are still as*es.



That may be in populated areas but as remote as i am they pay my price. Myself and my friend that works for Screwguard are their only contractors in the state. They are paying me a trip charge for one 700 miles round trip whenever they get the folks out of the house. Buck a mile. Got another one 600 miles round trip where negotiating on too........


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## Lehs (Dec 4, 2012)

I've been in this for 5yrs we do reo and P&P we dont have any problems with treaing mold or asking them to remove mold. its all on how you expand it to the nationals. I'm Cert in mold and remedation on it. its alot of money in mold. Im a cert home inspector to. we treat every home like there is someone buying it. we stay busy and work 7 days and been for 4 years and still going strong. But it is going to go to sh**t with safeuard buying out BAC property presrvation division. its going to be hard to keep going.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Have been doing Fannie Mae ,Chase, GMAC with Cyprexx. I hate there flat rate deal. I was able until now to make extra on safety hazards, but there reducing what they pay.(example install a dryer cover is $3 ,I`m buying them for $4.50) they still only pay 18 CYD on debris ,they were paying this 8 years ago, I guess they do not think costs have went up.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> Have been doing Fannie Mae ,Chase, GMAC with Cyprexx. I hate there flat rate deal. I was able until now to make extra on safety hazards, but there reducing what they pay.(example install a dryer cover is $3 ,I`m buying them for $4.50) they still only pay 18 CYD on debris ,they were paying this 8 years ago, I guess they do not think costs have went up.


Use test caps...they are $.35 at home depot and lowes...serve the same purpose...and will satisfy the work order...


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## REO2Rentals (Sep 18, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> Use test caps...they are $.35 at home depot and lowes...serve the same purpose...and will satisfy the work order...




Oatey 4 in. ABS Insert Test Cap with Knockout 
Model # 39103 
Store SKU # 508288 
$0.35 /EA-Each


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## REO2Rentals (Sep 18, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> Have been doing Fannie Mae ,Chase, GMAC with Cyprexx. I hate there flat rate deal. I was able until now to make extra on safety hazards, but there reducing what they pay.(example install a dryer cover is $3 ,I`m buying them for $4.50) they still only pay 18 CYD on debris ,they were paying this 8 years ago, I guess they do not think costs have went up.


We bill $45.00 per cap dryer


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

REO2Rentals said:


> We bill $45.00 per cap dryer


and then they will adjust it


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

we net $35 on them


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