# SG/BOA got a new price list



## Stateline

Its a shame, i grossed nearly 300k last year with this company, they were decent to work for too. Victim of the SG/BOA transfer.

I just don't see anyway to make decent money. these prices are almost nearly half what they were. am i missing anything?


Initial Grass Cut – Up to 12” (20,001 SQFT to 1 ACRE)$35.00
Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (Up to 5,000 SQFT)$35.00
Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (5,001 to 15,000 SQFT)$45.00
Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (15,001 to 30,000 SQFT)$55.00
Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (30,001 to 1 acre)$65.00
Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (Up to 5,000 SQFT)$45.00
Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (5,001 to 15,000 SQFT)$50.00
Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (15,001 to 30,000 SQFT)$65.00
Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (30,001 to 1 acre)$75.00
Yard Re-Cut (Up to 10,000 SQFT)$20.00
Yard Re-Cut (10,001 to 20,000 SQFT)$25.00
Yard Re-Cut (20,001 SQFT to 1 ACRE)$30.00
Weed Abatement/Spraying (If ordered – trim and clean up all weeds – spray weed preventative agent to entire yard)$35.00
JANITORIAL SERVICES
Initial Maid Service $70.00
Initial Maid Service – Additional Unit$40.00
Monthly Marketability (Interior/Exterior Inspection, Maid Refresh, Winterization verification, Incidental Debris removal – less than ¼ CYD)$20.00
MISCELLANEOUS / OTHER
Install Smoke Detector$10.00 each
Install CO Detector$20.00 each
Install ‘No Trespassing’ Sign (Landscaping stake with laminated sign)$3.00 per Sign
Install Handrail$6.00 per Linear Foot
Install Outlet Covers/Plates$0.50 each
Install Switch Covers/Plates$0.50 each
Cap Initial Water Line$10.00
Cap Additional Water Line$5.00
Cap Gas Line$2.50 per Cap
Cap Exposed Wires$0.50 per Ca

Install Blank Covers on Breaker Panel$14.00 per Panel
Cover holes in flooring$4.50 per SQFT
Secure Loose Ceiling Fan$7.00 each
Secure Cabinets, Cabinet Doors, Drawers, and Countertops that are loose enough to present a hazardous condition$10.00 per room
Repair Broken Fencing (To secure perimeter of property)$15.00 per Linear Foot
Replace Broken Fencing (To secure perimeter of property)$30.00 per Linear Foot
Repair/Secure Falling Light Fixture (With existing hardware)$7 per Fixture
Clean Gutters – Single Story$50.00
Clean Gutters – Multiple Stories$75.00
Pump Basement (Up to 2ft)Up to $150.00
Pump Basement (2ft or Higher)Up to $300.00
Install Sump Pump$160.00
Sump Pump Repair$25.00
Install Dehumidifier$200.00
Snow/Ice Removal$25.00
Extermination (Bug Bomb)$15 per bomb
Extermination (Licensed Exterminator)
Charge Receipt plus $15 allow access
Spa/Hot Tub Drain and Secure (If no fence present)$40 to drain
Secure with existing if present or bid to secure
Trip Charge$15.00
Window Lock$2.00
Roof Tarp
CALL FROM SITE
Roof Repair
CALL FROM SITE
Thaw Property
CALL FROM SITE


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## BRADSConst

Stateline said:


> I just don't see anyway to make decent money. these prices are almost nearly half what they were. am i missing anything?


Off the top of my head, I'd say you are missing profit, overhead and material. Might have enough to cover labor, barely.

$2 for a window lock? They cost me more than that.


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## hammerhead

glad I dont do work for them. Wow


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## Stateline

BRADSConst said:


> Off the top of my head, I'd say you are missing profit, overhead and material. Might have enough to cover labor, barely.
> 
> $2 for a window lock? They cost me more than that.



oh yea this was added to the email.

With the recent industry changes, these prices still allow for order completion while maintaining a profitable margin. Please reach out to us if you need assistance on how to cut costs and maximize profits using this new pay scale.

I may just ask them how to achieve a profitable margin just to see what they say.

Even if i went out and did this work myself (not paying for other labor) i'd be better off flipping burgers.


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## BRADSConst

Stateline said:


> With the recent industry changes, these prices still allow for order completion while maintaining a profitable margin.


Here is how I read that statement. "With the recent industry changes, these prices still allow for order completion *by you* while maintaining a profitable margin *for us*."


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## tak

What company is being referred too?


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## Gypsos

Stateline said:


> oh yea this was added to the email.
> 
> With the recent industry changes, these prices still allow for order completion while maintaining a profitable margin. Please reach out to us if you need assistance on how to cut costs and maximize profits using this new pay scale.
> 
> I may just ask them how to achieve a profitable margin just to see what they say.
> 
> Even if i went out and did this work myself (not paying for other labor) i'd be better off flipping burgers.


If you do ask them please post the response.


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## SwiftRes

I do SG/BOA, and have not heard about this. When were you notified? We wouldn't continue doing these for that pricing...


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## BRADSConst

SwiftRes said:


> I do SG/BOA, and have not heard about this. When were you notified? We wouldn't continue doing these for that pricing...


I'm guessing you are SG direct and he is refering to one of the BACFS regionals that's still trying to hang on now with SG.


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## SwiftRes

BRADSConst said:


> I'm guessing you are SG direct and he is refering to one of the BACFS regionals that's still trying to hang on now with SG.


 
Ah that makes sense. That just made me a bit nervous... we just did a BOA REO yesterday and I have crew staying out of town tonight working on another.


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## wmhlc

I also do a ton of SG work, no word about price change. I work direct.

I'm only p&p and those prices appear to be REO only. 

Who sent that price list? I have work for SG for almost 7 years and yet to receive any kind of price list from them.


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## SwiftRes

wmhlc said:


> I also do a ton of SG work, no word about price change. I work direct.
> 
> I'm only p&p and those prices appear to be REO only.
> 
> Who sent that price list? I have work for SG for almost 7 years and yet to receive any kind of price list from them.


The REO price list is on their website on vendor web. Just go into the section that has all of the manuals and there is REO info.


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## Stateline

how is working for safeguard directly, i hear horror stories about every company but never the good, i cover a rather large area in northeast ohio and western PA even out into some rural areas. i hear you have to go through one of they're insurance companies? what kind of rates do you guys pay on that? also if you can get me their P&P price list (pm me if you'd like) i'd like to take a look. i don't think i can access on their websitre without being a registered vendor first.

Thanks


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## STARBABY

Stateline said:


> i hear you have to go through one of they're insurance companies?
> 
> This was the think that keep me from signing up with them.


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## mtmtnman

Stateline said:


> how is working for safeguard directly, i hear horror stories about every company but never the good, i cover a rather large area in northeast ohio and western PA even out into some rural areas. i hear you have to go through one of they're insurance companies? what kind of rates do you guys pay on that? also if you can get me their P&P price list (pm me if you'd like) i'd like to take a look. i don't think i can access on their websitre without being a registered vendor first.
> 
> Thanks


Be ready for a 30-35% discount. 20% for sg and 10-15% for the chargebacks they will hit you with down the road. Also prepare for HOURS fighting vendor web. Have a friend that has worked for them for 3 years. He's hanging it up, there begging him to stay.........


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## Cleanupman

@Stateline....why don't you just work directly with SG?????
Those are numbers you have to say no to.....
Sorta like PK wanting to pay $25 for a 24"X48" window...glass is $40....
What the hell are these people thinking???????????

People HAVE to start saying no....


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## JenkinsHB

I don't think the regional companies being the middle men for SG will be around for very long. SG has their vendor network and it will only be a matter of time before their existing network will be able to absorb the additional work. The biggest problem being that many of the local companies working for BACFS regionals are also working for SG. Why do the same work for 20% or more less? That is the situation we find ourselves in.


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## 68W30

JenkinsHB said:


> I don't think the regional companies being the middle men for SG will be around for very long. SG has their vendor network and it will only be a matter of time before their existing network will be able to absorb the additional work. The biggest problem being that many of the local companies working for BACFS regionals are also working for SG. Why do the same work for 20% or more less? That is the situation we find ourselves in.


 :whistling2:so you can second bid your own bid of course :whistling2:


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## wmhlc

I like sg the best out of all the nationals. We get hud rates minus 10% discount.

I pay 9k for the e&o insurance its on 1million sales so I'm not sure what the rate is.

Vendor web is super fast now, they upgraded the servers about month ago and it cut our update time in half

Give them a call, matt pratt is in charge of hiring new vendors in the midwest so try and get some better prices because they start off with a 25% discount




Stateline said:


> how is working for safeguard directly, i hear horror stories about every company but never the good, i cover a rather large area in northeast ohio and western PA even out into some rural areas. i hear you have to go through one of they're insurance companies? what kind of rates do you guys pay on that? also if you can get me their P&P price list (pm me if you'd like) i'd like to take a look. i don't think i can access on their websitre without being a registered vendor first.
> 
> Thanks


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## 68W30

I just put my aluminum foil hat on and have come up with a possible scenario 


Conspiracy Theory 3245 


did BOA intentionally make the rounds to various nationals leapfrogging all over dropping all rates ?in that i mean forcing them down our throats then sold to safeguard as they had already price slashed every other nationals allowable pricing matrix ? now with FAS NorthEast and PK and some other biggies going belly up or shrunk to nothing the shrunken nationals will have to Allow the same matrix in order to get banks on board or back on board


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## Stateline

wmhlc said:


> I like sg the best out of all the nationals. We get hud rates minus 10% discount.
> 
> I pay 9k for the e&o insurance its on 1million sales so I'm not sure what the rate is.
> 
> Vendor web is super fast now, they upgraded the servers about month ago and it cut our update time in half
> 
> Give them a call, matt pratt is in charge of hiring new vendors in the midwest so try and get some better prices because they start off with a 25% discount


9K just for E&O? that sounds very expensive are you making an excellent profit margain with them?


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## RichR

wmhlc said:


> Give them a call, matt pratt is in charge of hiring new vendors in the midwest


When did this happen? he was my Regional 2 days ago?


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## wmhlc

He wears lots of hats, he's a good guy



RichR said:


> When did this happen? he was my Regional 2 days ago?


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## SwiftRes

wmhlc said:


> He wears lots of hats, he's a good guy


He's my regional as well but I don't communicate with him very often.


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## RichR

Hes a great guy. Definitely one of the better ones for sure. I have dealt with him for years and have developed a good relationship. Now that he's a VPN he's not available much.


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## wmhlc

that's for 1 million of sales, starting out with sg your not going to have sales over 100k so I would think the insurance would be around $2500



Stateline said:


> 9K just for E&O? that sounds very expensive are you making an excellent profit margain with them?


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## Wannabe

$9000 for $1mm? Thats dirt cheap. $10,000 or $25,000 deductible?


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## wmhlc

5k deductible, its E&O only, my liability is around 5k, never had a claim in 7 years so I get a good rate.





Wannabe said:


> $9000 for $1mm? Thats dirt cheap. $10,000 or $25,000 deductible?


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## Wannabe

$58,000 on 3mm. No claim till we quit after 10+yrs with 1 company..after quiting the floodgates of fraudelant claims start. $5,000 per pop for each claim. 

My suggestion: Lower deductible a yr before you anticipate quiting.


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## RichR

Wannabe said:


> $58,000 on 3mm. No claim till we quit after 10+yrs with 1 company..after quiting the floodgates of fraudelant claims start. $5,000 per pop for each claim.
> 
> My suggestion: Lower deductible a yr before you anticipate quiting.



I wonder what happens if you close down your company when you quit a major client, can they still come back on you?


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## Wannabe

RichR said:


> I wonder what happens if you close down your company when you quit a major client, can they still come back on you?


yes and they DO. They have law firms around the country that file suit for collections. Thats why everyone needs to have a LLC (limited protection) or Incorporate so the business can file bankruptcy when it disolves. 

You either pay the multiple deductibles OR pay it in lawyer fees. This business is nothing more than a extortion racquet. Like said " its like a box of chocolates...you really dont know till you take a bite if its any good"..P&P you dont really KNOW how bad it is till you quit a National and the bad taste dont start till 6-12 months later.


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## 68W30

RichR said:


> I wonder what happens if you close down your company when you quit a major client, can they still come back on you?



See now thats interesting ..... my business was originally in my wifes name as sole proprietor,,, fast forward we get divorced,,,,,she closed it period ,,,,,,, i had to reopen under a new name ,,, did i just get a clean slate and she got potential lawsuits :lol:


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## RichR

68W30 said:


> See now thats interesting ..... my business was originally in my wifes name as sole proprietor,,, fast forward we get divorced,,,,,she closed it period ,,,,,,, i had to reopen under a new name ,,, did i just get a clean slate and she got potential lawsuits :lol:


Would that be sweet justice?


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## Wannabe

68W30 said:


> See now thats interesting ..... my business was originally in my wifes name as sole proprietor,,, fast forward we get divorced,,,,,she closed it period ,,,,,,, i had to reopen under a new name ,,, did i just get a clean slate and she got potential lawsuits :lol:


As I understand it....

If you and the ex filed taxes jointly then you are 50% indebted/liable. Also, if your State has joint rights.


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## JDRM

Thats what insurance is for......


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## mtmtnman

JDRM said:


> Thats what insurance is for......


Multiple 5k deductibles will put a guy in the poor house fast though!!!!!!


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## thanohano44

Wannabe said:


> As I understand it....
> 
> If you and the ex filed taxes jointly then you are 50% indebted/liable. Also, if your State has joint rights.


Or is a community property state.


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## w-s

Stateline said:


> Its a shame, i grossed nearly 300k last year with this company, they were decent to work for too. Victim of the SG/BOA transfer.
> 
> I just don't see anyway to make decent money. these prices are almost nearly half what they were. am i missing anything?
> 
> 
> Initial Grass Cut – Up to 12” (20,001 SQFT to 1 ACRE)$35.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (Up to 5,000 SQFT)$35.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (5,001 to 15,000 SQFT)$45.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (15,001 to 30,000 SQFT)$55.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 13” to 24” (30,001 to 1 acre)$65.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (Up to 5,000 SQFT)$45.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (5,001 to 15,000 SQFT)$50.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (15,001 to 30,000 SQFT)$65.00
> Initial Grass Cut – 25” to 36” (30,001 to 1 acre)$75.00
> Yard Re-Cut (Up to 10,000 SQFT)$20.00
> Yard Re-Cut (10,001 to 20,000 SQFT)$25.00
> Yard Re-Cut (20,001 SQFT to 1 ACRE)$30.00
> Weed Abatement/Spraying (If ordered – trim and clean up all weeds – spray weed preventative agent to entire yard)$35.00
> JANITORIAL SERVICES
> Initial Maid Service $70.00
> Initial Maid Service – Additional Unit$40.00
> Monthly Marketability (Interior/Exterior Inspection, Maid Refresh, Winterization verification, Incidental Debris removal – less than ¼ CYD)$20.00
> MISCELLANEOUS / OTHER
> Install Smoke Detector$10.00 each
> Install CO Detector$20.00 each
> Install ‘No Trespassing’ Sign (Landscaping stake with laminated sign)$3.00 per Sign
> Install Handrail$6.00 per Linear Foot
> Install Outlet Covers/Plates$0.50 each
> Install Switch Covers/Plates$0.50 each
> Cap Initial Water Line$10.00
> Cap Additional Water Line$5.00
> Cap Gas Line$2.50 per Cap
> Cap Exposed Wires$0.50 per Ca
> 
> Install Blank Covers on Breaker Panel$14.00 per Panel
> Cover holes in flooring$4.50 per SQFT
> Secure Loose Ceiling Fan$7.00 each
> Secure Cabinets, Cabinet Doors, Drawers, and Countertops that are loose enough to present a hazardous condition$10.00 per room
> Repair Broken Fencing (To secure perimeter of property)$15.00 per Linear Foot
> Replace Broken Fencing (To secure perimeter of property)$30.00 per Linear Foot
> Repair/Secure Falling Light Fixture (With existing hardware)$7 per Fixture
> Clean Gutters – Single Story$50.00
> Clean Gutters – Multiple Stories$75.00
> Pump Basement (Up to 2ft)Up to $150.00
> Pump Basement (2ft or Higher)Up to $300.00
> Install Sump Pump$160.00
> Sump Pump Repair$25.00
> Install Dehumidifier$200.00
> Snow/Ice Removal$25.00
> Extermination (Bug Bomb)$15 per bomb
> Extermination (Licensed Exterminator)
> Charge Receipt plus $15 allow access
> Spa/Hot Tub Drain and Secure (If no fence present)$40 to drain
> Secure with existing if present or bid to secure
> Trip Charge$15.00
> Window Lock$2.00
> Roof Tarp
> CALL FROM SITE
> Roof Repair
> CALL FROM SITE
> Thaw Property
> CALL FROM SITE




Mid-Ohio..I got the same email. 

No way to make money off them..they are just a "filler" to keep my partner and I working full time. If you are relying on them to be you main income, I'm not sure they pay enough.


On a positive note, they are paying out 3 weeks after completion..which is better than the 2 months it was previously.


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## BRADSConst

JDRM said:


> Thats what insurance is for......


Insurance is for legitimate things that happen.  
Someone gets hurt, something goes wrong, equipment malfunction, etc.:yes::yes::yes:

Insurance is not for fraudulent claims to try and extort more money for bogus chargebacks.:no::no::no:. The fraudulent and frivolous crap causes all the rest of us to pay more :furious:.


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## JDRM

mtmtnman said:


> Multiple 5k deductibles will put a guy in the poor house fast though!!!!!!


Then file Bankruptcy and start over, that is if you are an llc or corp.


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## Wannabe

JDRM said:


> Then file Bankruptcy and start over, that is if you are an llc or corp.



Good advise and easy to say BUT a helleva lot harder to do...


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## STARBABY

Wannabe said:


> Good advise and easy to say BUT a helleva lot harder to do...


 
they need to start busting these`s companies for filing these claims! If any of us did this, we would be sitting in jail for insurance fraud!


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## JDRM

Lawsuits need to be filed against these companies, I know I would file if this ever happened to me. Im not a lawyer, but it sounds like insurance fraud to me, and I would work closely with my ins. company to make sure they fry!:furious:


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## SwiftRes

JDRM said:


> Lawsuits need to be filed against these companies, I know I would file if this ever happened to me. Im not a lawyer, but it sounds like insurance fraud to me, and I would work closely with my ins. company to make sure they fry!:furious:


So after you have to pay $20,000 in deductibles to your insurance company, write a check to a lawyer to sue a hundred million+ dollar company.


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## garylaps

I don't know what to think... You guys are scareing the hell out of me. I was a sub for a kicked to the curb national and fought hard to now be a vendor of the one that took that contract . I'm a sole propriorter.. so in this,... you think that it's only a matter of time before I'm devastated in "charge-backs" and countless E%O insurance claims? ............PLEASE, please guide me.


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## Wannabe

Its happening. Problem is Ins Fraud a "policyholder" cant sue for.. These E&O Companies are re-insured through Lloyds of London and are "non-regulated" as a surplus lines policy so there are no statutes for them to fall back on. The State Attorney Generals offices are to busy suing the banks for the mortgage debacle to care about a contractor.

I will say we have been in serious talks with a class action atty who is very interested. The problem is: The fraud is so massive and reaches all the way to the halls of Government that it could take years to sort it all out. 

It is VERY discouraging how this business actually operates.


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## Wannabe

garylaps said:


> I don't know what to think... You guys are scareing the hell out of me. I was a sub for a kicked to the curb national and fought hard to now be a vendor of the one that took that contract . I'm a sole propriorter.. so in this,... you think that it's only a matter of time before I'm devastated in "charge-backs" and countless E%O insurance claims? ............PLEASE, please guide me.


Gary,

It is scary. The only thing I can say is: Don't bank any earnings since its not yours "free and clear" for 7 yrs, Incorporate or LLC your Company through a lawyer(there are several ways to make your filing flow over to your personal assets so KNOW the requirements), cross your fingers. 

Every business has liabilities....the only thing different in P&P is YOU are also responsible for the mistakes of the NATIONAL and that risk YOU cannot control! 
Every Insurance claim we have had was 100% the Nationals fault but our Insurance policy did all the paying (that little additional insured rider they make contractors sign). 

Just think the little National vendor rep who said "use cylinders and not cyds" controlling your financial future... Scary!


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## JDRM

SwiftRes said:


> So after you have to pay $20,000 in deductibles to your insurance company, write a check to a lawyer to sue a hundred million+ dollar company.


Your insurance carrier works for you, they would have to go after the Nats themselves. That is of course if they are fraud, extortion cases. And, I did sue a 1oo million dollar company and won, was awarded 600K for work that was performed and not paid! If you are getting screwed, dont be afraid to stick up for yourself.

Or you could sit here and complain about it, and keep getting screwed.Thats your call.


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## Wannabe

JDRM said:


> Your insurance carrier works for you, they would have to go after the Nats themselves. That is of course if they are fraud, extortion cases. And, I did sue a 1oo million dollar company and won, was awarded 600K for work that was performed and not paid! If you are getting screwed, dont be afraid to stick up for yourself.
> 
> Or you could sit here and complain about it, and keep getting screwed.Thats your call.


JDRM,

You are correct but what you arent taking into account is that most of the E&O Companies ARE in bed with the Nationals. Try turning a fraud claim into the underwriter for the York-Jersey policy. Try turning that underwriter into the NICB (National Ins Crime Bureau).

See how far that gets ya....I'll tell ya...Not Far! It truly is the 21st Century Mafia. If I could unleash everything we have found out nobody would sign any contract with a National. Hopefully some day I will be able to expose these frauds! For now the lawyers & Nationals are still dwindling the bank acct


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## Gypsos

garylaps said:


> I don't know what to think... You guys are scareing the hell out of me. I was a sub for a kicked to the curb national and fought hard to now be a vendor of the one that took that contract . I'm a sole propriorter.. so in this,... you think that it's only a matter of time before I'm devastated in "charge-backs" and countless E%O insurance claims? ............PLEASE, please guide me.


 
I would recommned becoming an LLC or INC ASAP. The cost is insiginficant compared to the risk. 

My accountant is qualified to do this for me in my state. It costs me about $450 and he does all the work and makes sure all the Is are dotted and the Ts are crossed.


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## JDRM

Wannabe, 

So, you have had this happen? Let me get this straight.

You had never had a claim prior to leaving Nat, you leave, all the sudden claims start coming in...... And there is a "conflict of interest" between your Nat and your insurance company?

I would keep in touch with that attorney and start getting a small army of contractors together that has had this happen to them. Sounds like a job for cleanupman............


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## JDRM

Gypsos said:


> I would recommned becoming an LLC or INC ASAP. The cost is insiginficant compared to the risk.
> 
> My accountant is qualified to do this for me in my state. It costs me about $450 and he does all the work and makes sure all the Is are dotted and the Ts are crossed.


In Mi the state makes it very easy, I went on their site and did it myself for $60.


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## Zuse

I in-corp first thing when i started in this business,then a month later i put all my assets in a trust in my kids name,I've seen some crazy sh*t in this business over my 18 yrs and I'm not taking any chances..

Yeah i sleep well at night.Its was my lawyer that advised me to make the trust,my EO is 12k a yr,Jersey under-righters.

And its not that hard to backrupt your Biz right before you close it down,just plan in advance.


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## Gypsos

Zuse said:


> I in-corp first thing when i started in this business,then a month later i put all my assets in a trust in my kids name,I've seen some crazy sh*t in this business over my 18 yrs and I'm not taking any chances..
> 
> Yeah i sleep well at night.Its was my lawyer that advised me to make the trust,my EO is 12k a yr,Jersey under-righters.
> 
> And its not that hard to backrupt your Biz right before you close it down,just plan in advance.


Going bankrupt is no challenge at all.


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## thanohano44

Gypsos said:


> Going bankrupt is no challenge at all.


Filing BK is the problem. Most people who have gotten out of this business and other business that could suffer if they choose to file BK. it's a complex situation for business owners. If you've shut down your business and gone back to working for someone else....it could be easy.


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## Wannabe

JDRM said:


> Wannabe,
> 
> So, you have had this happen? Let me get this straight.
> 
> You had never had a claim prior to leaving Nat, you leave, all the sudden claims start coming in...... And there is a "conflict of interest" between your Nat and your insurance company?
> 
> I would keep in touch with that attorney and start getting a small army of contractors together that has had this happen to them. Sounds like a job for cleanupman............


Yep that is what is happening for the last 14 months. NO claim in 14 years..then quit the National and "let the ball roll". 

This has happened to several other "larger" players and lawsuits were filed but settled before going to court AND a gag order issued so no information can be gleamed from those cases. 

Let me tell another bit of information: National files a claim on Contractors policy without notification---When the Insurance Companies called for a recorded Statement of what happened is the first of our knowledge of the filed claim. Obviously you don't answer till you know what this is all about! They say "sorry we can't tell you what the claim is filed for since YOU are not named on the lawsuit"...SO you tell them "provide me all the information concerning this claim/lawsuit since I AM THE FREAKIN POLICYHOLDER!!!! Reply: Sorry we can't and we won't provide you this information since it doesn't concern your company and your not named on the lawsuit. 

Wait for the bill for the deductible. 

Wheres the justice in this?:furious: NOW try this 4x in 14 months:furious::furious:


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## thanohano44

Wannabe said:


> Yep that is what is happening for the last 14 months. NO claim in 14 years..then quit the National and "let the ball roll".
> 
> This has happened to several other "larger" players and lawsuits were filed but settled before going to court AND a gag order issued so no information can be gleamed from those cases.
> 
> Let me tell another bit of information: National files a claim on Contractors policy without notification---When the Insurance Companies called for a recorded Statement of what happened is the first of our knowledge of the filed claim. Obviously you don't answer till you know what this is all about! They say "sorry we can't tell you what the claim is filed for since YOU are not named on the lawsuit"...SO you tell them "provide me all the information concerning this claim/lawsuit since I AM THE FREAKIN POLICYHOLDER!!!! Reply: Sorry we can't and we won't provide you this information since it doesn't concern your company and your not named on the lawsuit.
> 
> Wait for the bill for the deductible.
> 
> Wheres the justice in this?:furious: NOW try this 4x in 14 months:furious::furious:


Wannabe,

So these nationals pretty much own you once you leave correct?


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## GTX63

We have had similar experiences with Nationals as Wannabe, though not as concentrated. You are playing roulette with a loaded gun if you are working for them as a sole prop. Please people, you are as a lamb for the slaughter.


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## Stateline

do you have the company on your insurance as additionally insured? Once you quite working for the company and you take them off your policy can they still file for claims?


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## GTX63

Yes and Yes.


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## BPWY

Cheap axx pay, charge backs and insurance fraud........................ is it any wonder I've exited stage left from the P&P biz???????????????????

Its a no brainer to me.


Now I do full time lawn care, snow plowing when it snows and part time crude oil hauler when its not snowing.
My funds and liability is much safer this way.


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## Zuse

Wannabe said:


> Yep that is what is happening for the last 14 months. NO claim in 14 years..then quit the National and "let the ball roll".
> 
> This has happened to several other "larger" players and lawsuits were filed but settled before going to court AND a gag order issued so no information can be gleamed from those cases.
> 
> Let me tell another bit of information: National files a claim on Contractors policy without notification---When the Insurance Companies called for a recorded Statement of what happened is the first of our knowledge of the filed claim. Obviously you don't answer till you know what this is all about! They say "sorry we can't tell you what the claim is filed for since YOU are not named on the lawsuit"...SO you tell them "provide me all the information concerning this claim/lawsuit since I AM THE FREAKIN POLICYHOLDER!!!! Reply: Sorry we can't and we won't provide you this information since it doesn't concern your company and your not named on the lawsuit.
> 
> Wait for the bill for the deductible.
> 
> Wheres the justice in this?:furious: NOW try this 4x in 14 months:furious::furious:


You got me thinking so i went back and checked my EO and it is a 1k deductible. i don't owe for anything and i float about 50k in the account.

So how would i bankrupt the company and if i did since its a LLC would it go against my credit..OH GREAT AND WISE ONE.


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## JDRM

LOL.

For the BEST info contact an attorney!

But, I will give my 2 cents on how I see it. You want as little money in your business account as possible, maybe a little more than operating expenses. Pay yourself as you see fit, there is no laws that say what your worth. Filing bankruptcy with a LLC or Corp protects your personal assets. When you file, you would loose any assets your company has, not you personally. 

Same with credit, if you were to have outstanding credit debt, it would go against company, not you personally.(unless you sign a personal guarantee which are big nowadays for this reason), usually they go back some time to decide if it was a strategic BK or not, if they believe it was they will try to go after personals. 

There is always going to be some sort of a loss filing BK, its about minimizing that loss.

I am not an attorney, and have never filed, just going off of what I understand from business experiences.


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## BPWY

Wannabe said:


> Yep that is what is happening for the last 14 months. NO claim in 14 years..then quit the National and "let the ball roll".
> 
> This has happened to several other "larger" players and lawsuits were filed but settled before going to court AND a gag order issued so no information can be gleamed from those cases.
> 
> Let me tell another bit of information: National files a claim on Contractors policy without notification---When the Insurance Companies called for a recorded Statement of what happened is the first of our knowledge of the filed claim. Obviously you don't answer till you know what this is all about! They say "sorry we can't tell you what the claim is filed for since YOU are not named on the lawsuit"...SO you tell them "provide me all the information concerning this claim/lawsuit since I AM THE FREAKIN POLICYHOLDER!!!! Reply: Sorry we can't and we won't provide you this information since it doesn't concern your company and your not named on the lawsuit.
> 
> Wait for the bill for the deductible.
> 
> Wheres the justice in this?:furious: NOW try this 4x in 14 months:furious::furious:






OK, I'm confused. 


You ARE NOT named on the claim but you have to pay the deductible.
What kind of insurance fraud are these rocket scientists running?????


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## Wannabe

So true BPWY!! 

I'll 2nd what JDRM said but add a little. If you have any professional licenses the question on the apps or tenewals is if you ever filed BK on a business. At this point I don't know how it affects keeping licenses BUT a lawyer said it could make it hard in the future since States are increasing scrutiny. Who really knows? I DO know it makes it harder to buy Commercial Insurance policies 

Another thing I got "scolded" on was pertaining to the LLC. IF you so much as purchase 1 item for personal reasons it waives the Personal Liability protections. They gotta prove it but I guess going to the grocery store on the way home, and only having the business card on ya, means I was donating food to the homeless..... The evidence was real good and gone


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## wmhlc

They just sent me the new fnma price list and no change in prices but debris went down by $10 a yard


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## Stateline

This whole BOA/SG thing really ****ed me over. Picked up some AMS work in PA fnma we'll see how that works out. does anyone have anything good to say about AMS? I make most my money off bid work (as opposed to flat rate stuff). Not to change the subject but how are they with payment and "backcharges"


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## GLPS

w-s said:


> Mid-Ohio..I got the same email.
> 
> No way to make money off them..they are just a "filler" to keep my partner and I working full time. If you are relying on them to be you main income, I'm not sure they pay enough.
> 
> 
> On a positive note, they are paying out 3 weeks after completion..which is better than the 2 months it was previously.



From What Ive been told, Same owners as Miken Construction, They have recently Bought Mid Ohio so if you ever worked for Miken then you know what to expect.


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## Stateline

I did real well with them last year mostly due to the large volume in my area and some excellent recut bid approvals. i had about 15 $350 cuts (after discount) which were nice bi monthly. plus about 160 other misc cuts. prob gonna have to drop the ball when the new price goes into effect.


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## Cleanupman

Stateline said:


> This whole BOA/SG thing really ****ed me over. Picked up some AMS work in PA fnma we'll see how that works out. does anyone have anything good to say about AMS? I make most my money off bid work (as opposed to flat rate stuff). Not to change the subject but how are they with payment and "backcharges"


 
One of the issues I use to gage a company is how fast $$$ issues can be amicably resolved. We were always able to have things resolved in a timely manner when it came to our invoices. Not sure if this was because we always score high enough to receive the bonus pay they have or not. Even when there was an $8k mistake it was resolved withing 7 business days....
Now they are another company that has no clients in our area....


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## david

*hi*

i also got an email todayt stating debris would go down to 40 cu yd minus discount and to expect more changes,people prices are not going to go up,continue downward,if you can financially jump ship before its too late.


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## BPWY

$40 less discount puts it around what I got for Fannie properties....... when I was doing them.


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## BRADSConst

BPWY said:


> $40 less discount puts it around what I got for Fannie properties....... when I was doing them.


 
Makes you wanna jump right back in doesn't it! :lol::lol::lol:


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## BPWY

BRADSConst said:


> Makes you wanna jump right back in doesn't it! :lol::lol::lol:





With all my heart and soul......................































not even a little bit. lol



But giving credit where credit is due when it comes to SG, I am thankful for the work I did get from them. 
My lawn business would not be where its at today if it wasn't for the work I got from them in 10/11 and 11/12 winters.
I bought a lot of good equipment cash money that will serve me well for a long time.


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## SwiftRes

SG did not lower their debris pricing to $40/CYD across the board. They emailed out a new FNMA price sheet, which showed debris at $40/CYD, which I thought was same as it was before, but we don't do any FNMA cleanouts, just FNMA infest risk which has always been $40/CYD. Other items on the list had changed, particularly they lowered pricing some on cleaning refrigerators/toilets, but they added an allowable to clean and repair gutters on initial secures. FHA debris and REO debris are still where they were.

And to be clear, this is not SG changing/lowering prices, this is Fannie Mae changing their allowables.

David/WHLMC, are you saying FNMA paid $50/CYD prior to this memo? I don't believe that's true.


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## GTX63

BPWY, you are giving credit where credit is due when it comes to SG, and you are thankful for the work you did get from them. We grossed more from them at one point, than I thought I would ever make in a lifetime. They also took, excuse me, stole from me during our time together, more than some folks will make in their best year on earth. I'll give them no credit; to do so could mislead others into believing they are the pot at the end of the rainbow. I do however owe them to spread the truth about the manner in which they operate.


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## BPWY

Don't get me wrong I am not a water carrier for them!!!
Not in any form or fashion.

I'm the one that came up with the rude name of screwguard for them.

But I don't feel its wrong to give credit where I feel its due in my situation.

Was I one of the very lucky ones???
Yup.

Do I think they are a honey pot at the end of the rainbow?????
Never!!!


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## GTX63

Plenty of companies on here are doing fine with them and may read my post as sour apples. We did nearly 10 years of heavy preservation and reo work with them and others, so I didn't bite the hand that fed me, I just bit back. Some of the newbs should be grateful to come on here and read how others got stung so they can avoid it. If working with them isn't going as bad as what you have read, then great. But now you have eyes wide open.


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## 68W30

we made plenty of money with them its true but it wasnt easy


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## Splinterpicker

68W30 said:


> we made plenty of money with them its true but it wasnt easy


True that We mad some money from them back in 08-09 but it was tyeh beginning of my receeding hair line and thinning due to their attitude. We came to a mutual understanding that their methods of doing business ad my stress level were DIRECTLY related. I had to put arrows on the photos to do QC's work for them and I was made to call back and appoligise. What a bunch or back stabbing loons.


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## ontimepres

I think some of the other comments here are exactly right .... see where others had problems and work to AVOID them. Change your habits, updates, day-to-day process to adjust to the misc. prices, chargebacks, e-mails, etc. 
When you are doing work for one of these compnanies you have to accept there will be a certain mount of money lost over BS .... as long as you are happy with the money you are making vs. the money you lose out on for BS you're doing fine.


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