# Anyone in florida interested



## foreverlawn (Jul 29, 2012)

I got this email today, don't have info on them or price list. We are out of the industry.

Hello,
My name is Anna, I’m with North American Asset Protection Services. I saw your Ad on Craigslist for property preservation, and we are interested in hearing from you about potentially working with us. We have just picked up a new client and will be receiving work in Alachua county and surrounding counties. Following is a list of said counties that we need coverage in. Feel free to complete your application, which can be found at the link below, and send it via e-mail. We look forward to hearing from you!
https://northamericanassetprotection.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=63

Looking for contractors to cover the following counties in Florida: Leon, Wakulla, Jefferson, Madison, Taylor, Hamilton, Suwanee, Lafayette, Columbia, Baker, Union, Bradford, *Alachua, *Nassau, Duval, Clay, St. Johns.


*Thank You,*
*Anna Garofano*
*Allocations Officer*
North American Asset Protection Services, INC.
[email protected]


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

They are apparently in my backyard. But i have never heard of them.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Before you waste time on their application, check with the BBB, get some references from them and their price sheet. Doing business is a two way street.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

I am not in the area they are looking for. I am in their backyard. About 10 miles from their address listed on their website. Thinking of dropping in tomorrow and see how they respond.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

According to Florida State records, apparently they have a staff of 1 and annual revenue of $40,000. Not so sure what to make of this:icon_rolleyes:


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

We're a regional, price list looks like this.. Gc's start at $20 for an under 5k sf lot, moving up 5 bucks every 5k after that, capping at $65 for an acre. 5$ more for any initial cuts that aren't overgrown. Any overgrowth/shrubs etc gets bid from site. $20 a cubic yard for debris, $15 per lock, $85 for an initial clean, (doesn't have to be immaculate, just have to prove ya tried) $48 for window boards, (don't need to paint) $80 for door boards. We don't do inspections as those prices are basically insulting to everybody. Basically everything else we turn in bids... and we always give approvals back to who bid them. I know Regionals are despised on here, but we do our best to keep guys happy, and we pay bi-weekly after the first month. The way I see it... our subs worry about the preservation, and we worry about the eternal battle to get paid.


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> We're a regional, price list looks like this.. Gc's start at $20 for an under 5k sf lot, moving up 5 bucks every 5k after that, capping at $65 for an acre. 5$ more for any initial cuts that aren't overgrown. Any overgrowth/shrubs etc gets bid from site. $20 a cubic yard for debris, $15 per lock, $85 for an initial clean, (doesn't have to be immaculate, just have to prove ya tried) $48 for window boards, (don't need to paint) $80 for door boards. We don't do inspections as those prices are basically insulting to everybody. Basically everything else we turn in bids... and we always give approvals back to who bid them. I know Regionals are despised on here, but we do our best to keep guys happy, and we pay bi-weekly after the first month. The way I see it... our subs worry about the preservation, and we worry about the eternal battle to get paid.


HAHAHAHAHA OMG!

You made me snort ice-t thru my nose as I was reading this load of crap:
"We don't do inspections as those prices are basically insulting to everybody"

I hate to be the one to break this to you, ALL OF YOUR PRICES ARE INSULTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

bigdaddy said:


> HAHAHAHAHA OMG!
> 
> You made me snort ice-t thru my nose as I was reading this load of crap:
> "We don't do inspections as those prices are basically insulting to everybody"
> ...


Agreed... And unworkable.
And im being nice about it!!!


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm not sure it is regional's that are so despised as it is the practices. Getting into the middle of an already crowded line and bumping the BOTG another rung down the ladder is the turn off. Thanks for your post. It is smetimes refreshing to hear from a regional that can be a little straightforward. Here is why we now only do REO/Preservation as a low priority sideline-

Our dumping rates climb every 6 months and currently, in many areas, it is a minimum of $70 truckload before items such at bedding, paint, tvs, etc. $20 cyd would be break even on our best day.

$25 to do an initial on a 100'x150' lot with maybe a fiver thrown in if it is overgrown? My youngest teenage son may take that price, but you won't get any pics.

Posting on a forum that I only have to show effort with my sales clean is setting everyone up to fail. I highly doubt you write that language into your contractor agreements.

I'd also expect that contractors would be wary of boarding orders that don't require painting when the local municipalities may. Do your subs avoid chargebacks for items like that when you don't get paid?

It is quite obvious with the numbers mentioned, the level of contractor you will attract. Unfortunately, we are the ones who come in after companies like yours lose the contract, submitting bids to redo the work.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

We pay out for quite a few jobs that we get zero-billed on actually. Nationals will find any excuse not to pay a contractor for their work, from a single missing photo, to an ambiguous rule buried somewhere deep in a vendor-memo archive labeled ****dangerous virus do not click*!!!!*** 

I spend most of my day going through and fighting charge backs and zero bills in an attempt to get paid for every work order our contractors have performed. We send our price list out to anybody who expresses interest in working for us, before asking them to waste time on a vendor app, and if they don't like the prices we shake hands and move on. No hard feelings. 

I just can't imagine a full time contractor who's out in the field all day, coming home at night and working a full night arguing with clients over whether they will be paid for a grass cut that another company cut 25 days ago, because that cut was performed within a month of theirs. If I can't get paid for a job, but I know that it was done correctly, I will ALWAYS ensure the contractor is paid, even if we aren't. 

Also so there is no confusion, a 100x150 lot starts at 30. If there is overgrowth, the contractor calls from site and names their price. The extra five only applies if it is our first cut at the property, and it is not more than 12 inches tall.

Say what you want, but if i was a contractor, I'd much rather work for Naaps than for safegaurd.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> We pay out for quite a few jobs that we get zero-billed on actually. Nationals will find any excuse not to pay a contractor for their work, from a single missing photo, to an ambiguous rule buried somewhere deep in a vendor-memo archive labeled ****dangerous virus do not click*!!!!***
> 
> I spend most of my day going through and fighting charge backs and zero bills in an attempt to get paid for every work order our contractors have performed. We send our price list out to anybody who expresses interest in working for us, before asking them to waste time on a vendor app, and if they don't like the prices we shake hands and move on. No hard feelings.
> 
> ...


I will say I like your honest approach. We tried doing the regional thing and I can relate to your battles with the nationals and I know you aren't making a killing on the backs of contractors in fact you are probably making a modest profit but earning every penny.

My question is this: How does being a regional or the existence of regionals help anyone? You could make more money just running a couple of guys locally. (I know I've done both) The contractor could make more if he just has his wife or someone do the fighting with the nationals. The national can get better service at the properties by paying contractors direct instead of allowing regionals to slice up the pie. 

Your pricing is pretty standard for a regional and about all you can afford to pay I am sure. The thing is the pie is only so big and it's time for people to stop trying to take their piece. Regionals need to go then nationals. 

I'm not hating on you I actually like you straight forwardness. This industry has MAJOR problems and one of the biggest is coverage and turn around times. People on this site think it's quality of work in the field but that isn't the case. The nationals and banks only care about turn around times and coverage. They need to divide states up into zones and hire 2or3 contractors per zone and work with them directly. Not hire a regional who gets Craigslist Hacks to go out and take pics. There is no way a guy can afford to do the work correctly EVERY TIME for what you can afford to pay him.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

And really, just because we bring locks and plywood with us to a property, doesn't mean our grass cuts are worth more than anybody elses... You can find a lawn care company anywhere in Florida to cut lawns for prices equivalent to these. Sure they don't have to take pictures, but that's the trade-off for not having to go door to door and drum up your own business.

I hear what you're saying about dump fees, but really, on a decent sized removal, even after dump fees, fuel, and paying a laborer, you should be making at least a couple hundred dollars for a hard days work. That's not terrible for a job that doesn't require any special certification, training, education, or experience.

I never tell a new contractor that they are getting onto the gravy train, this job is hard, dirty, inconsistent, and they probably aren't going to get rich doing it, but it's an honest living, and it beats the **** out of being a wage slave.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

I've personally dealt with the "wife of the contractor" setup. I just want to say... that may work great some of the time, but it definitely isn't great all of the time. Unless your wife is patient, tech savvy, personable, and knowledgeable about the business, she's gonna cost you clients. And if your wife loses an argument with the national, she can't just turn around and pay you anyway with profits she made elsewhere.

Also, there's a very heated personal aspect to it... when i issue a job, take calls and give direction regarding that job to the contractor, make decisions about the best way to complete the job, and then a month later that job comes up on a chargeback list for something stupid, it's aggravating. I get defensive, and I wasn't even the one who broke my back actually doing it! I can't imagine NOT screaming at and losing clients if i was actually the one out there doing the work. TBH you guys who do it, I mean actually do the work, then argue with nationals about payment for that work... you guys are saints. I would break heads.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> And really, just because we bring locks and plywood with us to a property, doesn't mean our grass cuts are worth more than anybody elses... You can find a lawn care company anywhere in Florida to cut lawns for prices equivalent to these. Sure they don't have to take pictures, but that's the trade-off for not having to go door to door and drum up your own business.


I've got a relative from Hobe Sound, FL that runs a landscaping business. He and his sons have been in business 30 + years. He called me last year asking about the idea of jumping on with a regional. He gets $100 more for a basic initial yard than the average going rate for XYZ preservation so it was a short talk.
Neither he nor I have to go pound the pavement for business because we are good at what we do. If I'm grinding out 50 recuts for Safeguard @ $32 a pop and the listing agents want to give me 15 cuts for $100, where do you think I'm going to move my crews?

The first sentence of the quote above pretty much describes the attitude of most regionals, but then I might be guilty of painting them with the same broad brush. I can invoice $125 initials on 15k yards all day because there is a market for it. The misunderstanding is that regionals want that $125 service for a dime on the dollar and extras on top of it, plus insurance, E&O, background checks, etc, and the majority of contractors available at that price point are newbs, kids and the one man/mom and pop outfits. 
Rather than try to shortside the talents and skills of the contractors on this forum, you should just accept that your looking for day labor guys and leave it at that.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

It's also important to note that not every contractor can afford to run for the two-three month span some nationals take to actually pay. I compare it to Aarons, or rent-a-center. You're paying more for the tv, because you cant afford to buy it all up front. Is it morally right? Idk, but lots of people have tv's that otherwise wouldn't be able to. 

We have started guys out with 0 capital after a partner, or malicious client took them for everything, we've fronted cash for material and dump fees to contractors who we felt had potential, or showed good work. We've got guys making a decent, hard earned living who probably wouldn't have been able to work for big nationals period. They aren't making as much as a guy who works direct for Fannie may, sure. But they wouldn't be working for anybody at all if it wasn't for us putting them in business. 

I am well aware of the implications this has for old school guys who were working in the good old days when this was a close knit industry, but I'm sorry, the secrets out. 

My boss worked out in the field back in the nineties, when things were just starting to get bad, and this is the best way he's found to do what he knows, put people to work, and make a decent living of his own. I just don't see how you can hate on somebody for that.

As CLhack said, nobody is getting rich over here, in fact we've got one contractor particular who probably takes home more than what my boss makes. (I don't know what his overhead is, but his net is such that i imagine he's probably doing quite well)

That's just from us, anybody who works this business knows to spread your eggs over multiples baskets. I'm pretty sure, based on some numbers, and claims I've seen from some of you guys on this site, that there are several of you out there that make way more money per year than our entire company, maybe not net, but pure profit? Absolutely.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

I'm not so sure a standard grass cut is worth $125 due to there being a market for it, so much as asset managers operating under the assumption that such work will be subbed. I can call any Tom, Dick, or Harry in my neighborhood and he'll come cut my 7,500 SF lot for 30 bucks all day. The only reason I don't is because my Neighbor has a zero-turn, and he does it for 20.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

James, the crux of what you are saying seems to be that a lot of folks would be out of work if it were not for regionals such as yourselves. I'm sure you have guys working that have some seasoning, but it sounds like a large portion of your subs are down on their luck, broke, taken advantage of types that need a hand up. At one time so was I, and I have plenty of guys who are/were as well. 
The point here is, that even if you as a regional didn't exist, they would still find a way to make a buck. Why? Because a regional doesn't create jobs for subs, they facilitate. That is why there are terms thrown around in this industry about regionals such "office mills" "paper pushers" and "money changers". Regionals do not expand business for contractors. The same amount of money goes thru Florida for preservation work whether you are there or not. A regional is just another calf at the tit, and if the guy just starting out in this biz is good enough to mow a yard and snap 30 pics for XYZ then he can make it working for himself. 
A regional mimics all the paperwork and billing of the contractor; they just didn't do the actual work. Money spent on regionals is money taken from the very group of people you hire. In actuality, you limit a contractor's opportunities by taking up their space. Doesn't matter what good you feel your company may do, there has never been any additional funds created for the use of 3rd, 4th and 5th party vendors to service foreclosed properties.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not so sure a standard grass cut is worth $125 due to there being a market for it, so much as asset managers operating under the assumption that such work will be subbed. I can call any Tom, Dick, or Harry in my neighborhood and he'll come cut my 7,500 SF lot for 30 bucks all day. The only reason I don't is because my Neighbor has a zero-turn, and he does it for 20.



I have had this argument with many neighbors who want us to trim more and clean the place up when we do a grass cut. When I do a grass cut for a homeowner it's probably not worth the $125.00. When I do it for an asset manager I am required to do it by a certain due date. I am required to travel up to 90miles each way, I'm required to carry GL, and E&O, I'm required to take before during and after pics then upload and label them along with any bids. Joe's mowing company doesn't do all of that. He charges cheap rates and only works close to home. He can barely work his prepaid cell phone there is no way he could understand the requirements to work for the nationals. 

I deserve more money for the grass cut because I am being asked to do more than just cut grass. If you want weed eating, clipping removal, bush trimming or any other extra's I'm going to charge for that separately. I don't know what the cost of living is in FL but where I am from it takes a good income to make it. Grinding it out on $20.00 grass cuts won't even get you from paycheck to paycheck. I make in 2 yards what your guys do in 10. Which makes more sense to you?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not so sure a standard grass cut is worth $125 due to there being a market for it, so much as asset managers operating under the assumption that such work will be subbed. I can call any Tom, Dick, or Harry in my neighborhood and he'll come cut my 7,500 SF lot for 30 bucks all day. The only reason I don't is because my Neighbor has a zero-turn, and he does it for 20.


You may not be so sure and that's ok; there are plenty of contractors on here that will say otherwise. It must be worth it for them if they are getting the work. Tom, Dick and Harry use their 20" True Value pusher and their $800 Yard Man once every 10 days. They don't have to cut thru brush, tires, wire, rock. They don't have to carry E&O, workmans comp, or buy trailers or trucks, etc. That isn't even an apple to an orange, but again, it speaks to who you feel is your contractor base.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> You may not be so sure and that's ok; there are plenty of contractors on here that will say otherwise. It must be worth it for them if they are getting the work. Tom, Dick and Harry use their 20" True Value pusher and their $800 Yard Man once every 10 days. They don't have to cut thru brush, tires, wire, rock. They don't have to carry E&O, workmans comp, or buy trailers or trucks, etc. That isn't even an apple to an orange, but again, it speaks to who you feel is your contractor base.



I had a conversation with a guy from this board the other day. He was looking for work in Indiana and he asked me about PK Management, Safe Guard, FAS (im not sure they are still in Business?), 5 Bros, MSI, and a couple of regionals. My answer was pretty simple. If they are hiring they have issues. It's really that simple. 

There are enough good contractors and companies in my area that if someone is paying good and offering good work we would seek them out they would not have to come looking. The ones that are hiring can't keep people there is always a reason but that is the bottom line.

If the program being offered here is so good the offer should have been removed already due to all of the interest. After all everyday this board is filled with guys looking for work.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

There is a point to be made about hiring the down on their luck guys. But then, hasn't that been all of us at sometime or another? Well guess what? A lot of those poor unfortunate souls, during their lean periods, may have picked up a felony...or two. By grace I wasn't one of them but I sure will hire them. These nationals and regionals that claim to put folks to work seem to be speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Now I'm not talking about putting a former child molester on a remodeling job at the local daycare. It is a common sense issue.
Nationals now carry a zero tolerance policy for felons present and past in order to showcase their high level expectations of quality and competence in their work force, yet they expect the mid to higher tier companies to accept the basement door pricing as well as the exorbitant insurance costs just to get a seat at the table. So the licensed plumber with a felony dui can't do a $60 winterization for Safeguard, but the guy who just quit Burger King can. Then after 60 days and he can't pay his insurance or make it off the chargebacks, they rotate someone else in.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

I can't disagree with you at all really. If you are a contractor who is good enough to land a contract with a big bank or HUD, you definitely aren't the kind of guy who's gonna be working for a regional or small company like Naaps or anyone else. Our guys aren't that contractor though, but I don't think it's fair to slam them for that, everyone has gotta start somewhere, and most of our guys do really great work, especially once they've been at it for a few months and really start to get a grasp of what is expected of them. it's a tough industry for newcomers. 

As far as turnover is considered, we posted an ad for people in order to expand into some new counties a few months back, and we filled those counties pretty quickly. I'm not here looking for new hires, and our primary guys in each area have been with us since the beginning. (save maybe one or two who just don't want to do it anymore, or outgrew us.) Most of our turnover is guys we have in reserve, who then don't answer when we need them, because they (completely justifiably) have moved on to greener pastures by the time we have solid work to give them. I don't promise every new hire tons of work, and we encourage even our main guys to keep their business relationships with other firms on good footing, because you never know, this business is volatile. 

There isn't anything stopping any contractor we hire from reading the posted signs on the houses, and applying with our clients directly, so the fact that we hold on to these guys, in my opinion, means we aren't that bad to work for.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

Oh, and as far as making somebody drive 90 miles, I could not, and most certainly would not, get anybody to drive that far at our prices. That's ridiculous. We aren't allowed to reject work from the nationals, but we certainly allow our guys to reject work from us. We do normally ask for a reason, (mostly to avoid repeatedly sending work that a particular contractor can't or won't do) and at the very least not to wait until it's already past due, but if I need to get someone else to take on that job I can, if i can't i'll offer more money. If I STILL can't get it done, or if i have to resort to threats or bullying, than I suck at my job, and shouldn't be in business.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> We pay out for quite a few jobs that we get zero-billed on actually. Nationals will find any excuse not to pay a contractor for their work, from a single missing photo, to an ambiguous rule buried somewhere deep in a vendor-memo archive labeled ****dangerous virus do not click*!!!!***
> 
> I spend most of my day going through and fighting charge backs and zero bills in an attempt to get paid for every work order our contractors have performed. We send our price list out to anybody who expresses interest in working for us, before asking them to waste time on a vendor app, and if they don't like the prices we shake hands and move on. No hard feelings.
> 
> ...






Your honesty and integrity in always paying the contractor for the work he did is to be admired. 

How ever the pricing........... not some thing I can work with. 

Hence the reason I have ALL local customers. Cash pay on the spot, pre-pays, paid with in 2 to 3 weeks................. 
Just can't beat that with a stick, not to mention my prices are a few bucks above average.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> and it beats the **** out of being a wage slave.





MAYBE just slightly better, as long as you are working in a heavily populated metro area. Driving generally under 10 mins to the next job.

But far from the entire country is that and by accepting low pay outs like what yours are puts contractors that cover rural areas in a huge disadvantage.
But when its possible to drive nearly 2 hrs from one side of the county to the other, those payouts don't even hit min wage for a long day's work and then uploading.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not so sure a standard grass cut is worth $125 due to there being a market for it, so much as asset managers operating under the assumption that such work will be subbed. I can call any Tom, Dick, or Harry in my neighborhood and he'll come cut my 7,500 SF lot for 30 bucks all day. The only reason I don't is because my Neighbor has a zero-turn, and he does it for 20.





There is such a vast difference between what you are asking contractors to do and what you neighbor is doing they should not even be compared. 

The neighbor has no need for a pickup, a trailer, insurance, workers comp, unemployment, pickup license, trailer license, etc.

Not to mention that with only mowing your lawn and his he mows less in a year than what a busy P&P grass guy mows in a week. 
This means he has far less repairs and the replacement cycle on his mower is many years longer as well.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> James, the crux of what you are saying seems to be that a lot of folks would be out of work if it were not for regionals such as yourselves. I'm sure you have guys working that have some seasoning, but it sounds like a large portion of your subs are down on their luck, broke, taken advantage of types that need a hand up. At one time so was I, and I have plenty of guys who are/were as well.
> The point here is, that even if you as a regional didn't exist, they would still find a way to make a buck. Why? Because a regional doesn't create jobs for subs, they facilitate. That is why there are terms thrown around in this industry about regionals such "office mills" "paper pushers" and "money changers". Regionals do not expand business for contractors. The same amount of money goes thru Florida for preservation work whether you are there or not. A regional is just another calf at the tit, and if the guy just starting out in this biz is good enough to mow a yard and snap 30 pics for XYZ then he can make it working for himself.
> A regional mimics all the paperwork and billing of the contractor; they just didn't do the actual work. Money spent on regionals is money taken from the very group of people you hire. In actuality, you limit a contractor's opportunities by taking up their space. Doesn't matter what good you feel your company may do, there has never been any additional funds created for the use of 3rd, 4th and 5th party vendors to service foreclosed properties.





Unfortunately I can only like this post once. It deserves many times more.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Oh, and as far as making somebody drive 90 miles, I could not, and most certainly would not, get anybody to drive that far at our prices. That's ridiculous. We aren't allowed to reject work from the nationals, but we certainly allow our guys to reject work from us. We do normally ask for a reason, (mostly to avoid repeatedly sending work that a particular contractor can't or won't do) and at the very least not to wait until it's already past due, but if I need to get someone else to take on that job I can, if i can't i'll offer more money. If I STILL can't get it done, or if i have to resort to threats or bullying, than I suck at my job, and shouldn't be in business.





James you have a lot of good qualities it sounds like. 

At the same time with all due respect I do not think you have the mindset to be self employed. 
At least not yet, I've seen other folks that get it eventually. 
And I've seen folks that thought they did, tried, failed and went back to working for the man.

I've even had hiccups along the way to self employed when I didn't make it work out thanks to bad decisions.


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*hi*

need i say it again,this industry has turned into a circus of who will work the cheapest,i would'nt work inside my own county for prices i saw.if your not working direct your better off at a job 9-10 hr anymore time you figure gas,insurance,overhead,supplies,repairs.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

@BPWY I'm not self employed, I'm a mid-level employee, specifically, I'm the Compliance officer for Naaps. My primary function is to ensure that A) the contractors know what to do, and are doing what they need to to ensure payment, and B) making sure the client pays for that work once it's been done. I basically spend 40+ hours a week on the phone explaining things to contractors and/or politely arguing with nationals about why they need to pay us for specific jobs. I'm pretty good at it, and I would like to one day run my own show, but I probably need a few more years of experience, I haven't seen everything yet. I'm not sure I ever will in this industry. 

I respect your opinion that I'm not ready to be self employed, as you obviously are, and I obviously am not, but specifically, based on the little bit you've seen from me here, what is it that you think I'm missing?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> @BPWY I'm not self employed, I'm a mid-level employee, specifically, I'm the Compliance officer for Naaps. My primary function is to ensure that A) the contractors know what to do, and are doing what they need to to ensure payment, and B) making sure the client pays for that work once it's been done. I basically spend 40+ hours a week on the phone explaining things to contractors and/or politely arguing with nationals about why they need to pay us for specific jobs. I'm pretty good at it, and I would like to one day run my own show, but I probably need a few more years of experience, I haven't seen everything yet. I'm not sure I ever will in this industry.
> 
> I respect your opinion that I'm not ready to be self employed, as you obviously are, and I obviously am not, but specifically, based on the little bit you've seen from me here, what is it that you think I'm missing?


Seasoning. Before he made that statement I was going to ask you how long you have been at this. There is a timeline to this industry and you will go from wanting to one day run your own show to wanting desperately to get out. The timeline is a little skewed when you work for someone else because it's their money and really their headaches.

One thing I noticed early on while spending some time with a guy who ran a regional for 15years was that he was on the phone on a Saturday trying to get coverage on an order in the middle of nowhere. He stated to me that he has been dealing with that stuff for 15years 2 kids and 3 marriages. I don't want a job of any sort that doesn't offer me more stability than that after 15 years. Contractors are always flaking out and clients are always asking for more this is no long term goal for anyone.

My question to you is why do you think your clients are asking you guys to expand into new coverage areas? That statement always makes me chuckle!!! Do you know what the translation is?:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

You Guys are absolutely right about rural areas btw. Our model definitely works best in metro areas. This is something we are fully aware of. Fortunately we've had success in keeping the bulk of our work in the cities. We get the occasional straggler work order to be sure. But when a guy has fifty work orders all near each other in south Miami, if I call him and offer him extra to knock out a random job in the north keys or something he'll usually be willing to meet in the middle on that one, as he's making it up elsewhere. Yeah, We're breaking even, he's breaking even, and the national is still taking the same cut regardless, but what can ya do? Not every job is going to be a home run, this is a numbers game.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

@CLHACK, Honestly? It probably means that whoever they had covering those areas is fed up with the slow pay and refusing any more work. They are probably owed 100k or more and just aren't willing to let the national rack up any more debt out of fear that they get screwed.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

They may even be out of running capital, and simply can't afford to keep running and paying guys until the national catches up, which could be 60-90 days out. In which time, they could easily run up another 100k in invoices... Multiple clients are a must.


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## Trey9007 (Nov 20, 2013)

> _and it beats the **** out of being a wage slave._


Ahh...the ole it better than nothing routine..lol..

_...And this, boys and girls, is what becomes the mindset in an industry where the workers make the decision NOT to fight for a voice in their own industry._


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

@Trey, Not everyone agrees, and that's fine. If you are good enough, and experienced enough at what you do to land the high paying clients and work direct than more power to ya. You obviously aren't going to be working under a company like mine.
Some of the guys who work for us could probably land those contracts too, but they don't want the headaches associated with dealing with them. Easier to deal with us. Let us fight the nationals and wait months for pay, let us worry about not being able to reject an order 100 miles from nowhere, so they can cover a 30 mile radius from there home zip. I think of it as us in a sense, being the contractors subbed out office staff. 

I'm not hating on anybody, or calling anybody whiners or anything, and I'm not even trying to be particularly defensive. You guys certainly have valid points, it's clear to me that the industry isn't what it used to be, and maybe some of the regionals have contributed to that. I just don't think we in particular are bad guys, or are even bad to work for. If I've offended anybody here I'm sorry, know that wasn't my intent. 

I'm not an old dog in this, and I haven't been schooled or trained in any "regional devil propaganda" I'm just telling straight like I see it, and trying to stay as humble as possible, as you guys are likely WAY more experienced in this than I am.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> @CLHACK, Honestly? It probably means that whoever they had covering those areas is fed up with the slow pay and refusing any more work. They are probably owed 100k or more and just aren't willing to let the national rack up any more debt out of fear that they get screwed.



This is one of the many possible scenarios. So if the experienced contractor before you couldn't make it work how will you be able to? I don't think enough guys take an objective look at these things. 

We just received a $4,600.00 cut bid approval for a garage roof. 8sq tear off little bit of decking to replace and some fascia in Decatur, IL. Sounds to good to be true. My very first thought is why are they calling me? After a while in this business you start to realize the patterns and you begin to get paranoid or smart depending on how you see it.

Good luck man I have work to do!


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## Trey9007 (Nov 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> @Trey, Not everyone agrees, and that's fine. If you are good enough, and experienced enough at what you do to land the high paying clients and work direct than more power to ya. You obviously aren't going to be working under a company like mine.
> Some of the guys who work for us could probably land those contracts too, but they don't want the headaches associated with dealing with them. Easier to deal with us. Let us fight the nationals and wait months for pay, let us worry about not being able to reject an order 100 miles from nowhere, so they can cover a 30 mile radius from there home zip. I think of it as us in a sense, being the contractors subbed out office staff.
> 
> I'm not hating on anybody, or calling anybody whiners or anything, and I'm not even trying to be particularly defensive. You guys certainly have valid points, it's clear to me that the industry isn't what it used to be, and maybe some of the regionals have contributed to that.* I just don't think we in particular are bad guys, or are even bad to work for. If I've offended anybody here I'm sorry, know that wasn't my intent. *
> ...


I dont think you or your company are bad. However, I do think that you are probably good people, who put themselves in a bad situation, and really only have bad options to choose from. 

Regionals aren't evil. But what they do sometimes is, IMO. Instead of regionals and other middlemen charging for their paper pushing services, they skim from craft money. For example, the customer HUD feels a certain task (work) may be worth $100 and they pay $100 for that task. National takes a cut, regionals take a cut, and then probably one or two others take a cut. So the guys that actually performs the $100 task, is getting paid $50 for the task. Not good for an industry. 

BTW, if anyone cares, Im shooting off a couple letters covering this industry to a few people. HUD, Dept of Labor, Senate & House labor comittees, IRS, AFL-CIO.... just to name a few. Will probably be 3 letters addressing a few things like HUD-Davis Bacon violations, Tax volations, Fed Contracting violations, min wage violations, and maybe more.

Would love for you guys to read them to help insure Im giving factual information. Keep an eye out for threads started by me


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

Paper pushing service is one way to put it, and a part of it for sure, but we also deal in risk. We Send a contractor their first two weeks worth of pay after a month, and then we send a check every two weeks following. This is based on what we have billed for in that time period, NOT based on what the nationals have paid us. This means that very time a work order gets zero billed by a national weeks or months after it was turned in, (which happens way more often than it should) we take a total loss on that job, because we've already paid our guys for it.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I respect your opinion that I'm not ready to be self employed, as you obviously are, and I obviously am not, but specifically, based on the little bit you've seen from me here, what is it that you think I'm missing?





When or if you do step foot into the self employed arena I wish you the best of luck.
By your job you may have more insight into specifics than what some do. 

I had none, I just jumped. Back in 1996 I started doing lawn care part time.
I had a safety net of another job while I got my feet under me.

Years later even after being successful thru stupid decisions that bring about some very painful and long lasting lessons
I fell flat on my face. A complete business failure.

Took a few years to get my feet under me again and get back on the horse. 
But those lessons of failure will remain with me for life.

As for specifically why I don't think you are ready. Defending the way too cheap pay your contractors get.
Now I realize in your current job's position you cannot disparage your boss, but don't defend the pay either. 
I do not believe you understand the costs that go into owning a business, not yet.

If your goal is to become a self employed operator one day do this. Start keeping a record of what things your vendors tell you along the way. 
Soon a more clear picture will start to develop. 
Costs like insurance, taxes, wages, workers comp, unemployment, equipment purchases, equipment maint and repairs, equipment replacement costs, license/fees and the list goes on and on.

Each business may be different but mine goes like this. What ever I gross in a year is AT LEAST 2/3rds expenses, right off the top before I get paid.
AT LEAST.

Now I'm working to change that by perfecting my business model etc but all of that takes time. 
Some times in a self employed situation we don't have the time required to turn bad decisions around. 
And that issue is compounded by the fact that the income for services performed is not high enough.

Keep hanging out at this site or others like it. You'll pick up a lot of business knowledge that I never had prior to starting business for myself.
Keep a good attitude like you've had so far and folks will keep giving you advice. 
I'm sure if you read in the archives you'll see threads where some one was a know it all and asked questions. And then got pissed when they didn't get what they wanted. 
Its all in the attitude. So far you're doing pretty good. Even in light of the criticisms you've gotten.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Paper pushing service is one way to put it, and a part of it for sure, but we also deal in risk. We Send a contractor their first two weeks worth of pay after a month, and then we send a check every two weeks following. This is based on what we have billed for in that time period, NOT based on what the nationals have paid us. This means that very time a work order gets zero billed by a national weeks or months after it was turned in, (which happens way more often than it should) we take a total loss on that job, because we've already paid our guys for it.





This is how it should be. Your vendors signed up with your company. 
NOT with your customers. So they get paid regardless. 

Just like my employees, they get paid regardless of whether a customer paid me.
Their relationship is with me, not my customers.





One other thing I wanted to mention James, I wouldn't plan on going into P&P for your self employment position.
Maybe you do some of that work along the way, but do not make that your business model. 
That cow has just about been milked dry and the industry is turning itself around.

Sure there will always be foreclosures. But it wont be the mass amount of work like we've seen since 2007.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

BPWY said:


> This is how it should be. Your vendors signed up with your company.
> NOT with your customers. So they get paid regardless.
> 
> Just like my employees, they get paid regardless of whether a customer paid me.
> Their relationship is with me, not my customers.



Yep, That's how we see it. It's just good ethics, which is just good business. Besides, happy contractors go out and work, angry contractors place liens.


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## cover2 (Apr 3, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Yep, That's how we see it. It's just good ethics, which is just good business. Besides, happy contractors go out and work, angry contractors place liens.


 A word and a practice that is long gone in this industry, you may have it James but the national you are contracted with certainly doesn't. I don't know who it is but it doesn't matter as they ALL are lacking ethics, its simply greed and in this case "greed is not good". Good luck!


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## little mama (Jul 15, 2013)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I had a conversation with a guy from this board the other day. He was looking for work in Indiana and he asked me about PK Management, Safe Guard, FAS (im not sure they are still in Business?), 5 Bros, MSI, and a couple of regionals. My answer was pretty simple. If they are hiring they have issues. It's really that simple.
> 
> There are enough good contractors and companies in my area that if someone is paying good and offering good work we would seek them out they would not have to come looking. The ones that are hiring can't keep people there is always a reason but that is the bottom line.
> 
> If the program being offered here is so good the offer should have been removed already due to all of the interest. After all everyday this board is filled with guys looking for work.


I got this today so I guess they still are:


P.K. Management Group, Inc. (PKMG) is actively seeking to add Vendors as we grow by adding new States and bringing on new properties requiring preservation services. We are currently looking for Property Preservation companies for all states. If you have experience in this field, we have a great opportunity for you. Please give us a call or submit the attached Vendor Registration and Questionnaire. A Vendor Management Specialist will be eager and happy to assist you in the boarding process. PKMG is a leader in the industry and has and continues to maintain steady and stable growth by aligning its business interests and needs with our Valued Subcontractor Vendor base. The PKMG motto is “Pursuing Excellence through Persistence and Determination”. We are confident that you possess the drive and determination that is needed to face the challenges of the industry today and into the coming years.


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## absolutehavoc (Mar 9, 2014)

I am in the upper Keys. I was offered 10$ a CY and 15 for maid yard and lock.
Yippee!
NPE solutions?
Anyone?


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