# Is anyone else with the siblings getting bogus charge backs?



## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

Or am I alone?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

PPArt said:


> Or am I alone?


If they are working for 5 Bros the whole program is bogus. You are definitely not alone. I didn't think it was possible but I hear they are worse than ever.:whistling2::whistling2:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

What do you consider a bogus chargeback? Have some details?


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

Going to a property to bid on removing a damaged toilet. Toilet gets removed and capped, 2yrs later get a charge back for toilet replacement.


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## allure9121 (Jan 26, 2014)

I never got any charge backs now they are hammering me with them its a joke


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## All Island Handy (Dec 12, 2012)

PPArt said:


> Going to a property to bid on removing a damaged toilet. Toilet gets removed and capped, 2yrs later get a charge back for toilet replacement.


yup......sounds about right. after 185cyd trash out we broom sweep and attempt to clean the discusting fridge with really good pics and bid to remove. 3days later I send an email and call to verify they are happy and will process the order they say " yes that's fine, all looks good " on the phone and email, 6 months latter I get charged back ....., when I demand pics of what the other contractor did that I didn't they wont show me for a few days then come to find out the other guy did the same as me, showed pics trying to clean with no success and bid to remove ... they gave him the bid approval to remove and charged me back the full price for the "cleaning" AND the removal that was the day we parted ways


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

Their ship is bringing on water fast... WF is about to drop them in MI


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I don't know that they are starting this all just now. They fit in with the group of nationals known for this practice and have been doing it a long time.
End of month collections to ensure the department head gets her bonus.

We got a call from them maybe 5-6 years ago. Emergency grass cut needed on a property 40 miles from us. The city has issued a 7 day notice and they were willing to pay up to $150. We get there and the yard is over 4' tall with horse weeds and brush and debris hidden and buried beneath. Probably a half acre lot. We called it in and told them it was $450 take it or leave it. They agreed and emailed over a poc. We knocked it out that afternoon.

Apparently the next morning the city guys (summer help) came by behind us and cut the yard again. 5B notified us a couple weeks later that besides not paying us, they were backcharging us what the city billed the client, as they claimed we didn't cut the yard, the city did. Well, exf data on pics are a bugger aren't they? I explained we would be expecting payment within 5 days or we would lien the house. The supervisor calls me back and says, "We'll give you an option-a) We don't pay you and we will continue our relationship as usual and send you work, or b) we will pay your invoice and no longer use your company.
Guess which one I chose....:yes:


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

Here is one for you. We stopped performing all work for them back in July. Just 6 weeks ago I happen to check our old email account for something else and find a no charge order. The order was to remove mold stained paneling and drywall because the photos from the initial secure show it was there and we didn't bid it properly.
Well I sent them the response that we are closed and will not be doing it. 1) Because I know we bid it and they denied the bid. But the best is, wait get this, the initial was in 2013. Are you kidding me? So then last week they send me a notice they are back charging us for $3000.00 for the work another contractor had to do.
This was my response. "We have not worked for you since July. we did originally bid the job and you denied it. My attorney has been advised that if you try to collect anything from our insurance policy which is no longer active. Not only will we fight it, but we will forward all of the information to the US Attorney office and file charges of wire fraud and theft by deception".
They are so stupid, besides if we are closed and they do not owe us anything, how are they backcharging?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Now this is a Proper Property Preservation Thread!

How many read this and sign up with 5 bros?


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

I must say that the 6 years we worked for them, they were pains in the [email protected]@ but they never actually screwed us of pay. There were a couple of no charge orders but when we fought them, they let them go because we were right. 
Gee, I guess things got bad for them. lol


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## cover2 (Apr 3, 2013)

If I were just getting into this business the first thing I would do is Google any company that wants to contract with me then I would go to ripoff report. 5 bros and safeguard have more complaints on the ripoff report than ANY company!!!! Yet you have companies buying into the dance of death with them. Never ceases to amaze me.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

cover2 said:


> If I were just getting into this business the first thing I would do is Google any company that wants to contract with me then I would go to ripoff report. 5 bros and safeguard have more complaints on the ripoff report than ANY company!!!! Yet you have companies buying into the dance of death with them. Never ceases to amaze me.


Add AFAS, Cyprexx, VRM, PK MANAGEMENT and 1,000 others! It doesn't matter people still sign up with them. It won't happen to me those guys are idiots!


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

Then next year people will be complaining about the same nonsense. Boy so glad I am out of this rat race.


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

I've been with them for 7 yrs now and have never had this issue. The back charges are one after another for 2015.


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## All Island Handy (Dec 12, 2012)

PPArt said:


> I've been with them for 7 yrs now and have never had this issue. The back charges are one after another for 2015.


8 more months left in 2015..........good luck:icon_rolleyes:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

We accepted work orders from them for several years. It is true that the baloney ran in cycles, however, with any of these companies, you are at the mercy of a typical 20 year old recently trained short term worker, poorly contructed work orders and sometimes buggy uploading sites.

Yes, there are those reading this thread that, in spite of the posts, will start running to catch the money train and apply for an opening as they feel all that is needed to succeed with a national is to just "do the work the right way".


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

WE do good work. We have ethics. We worked for this comp. for two plus years and didn't have any issues until the last 6 months. The ridicules back charges have ended our relationship with the siblings. Examples; Back charged a cube for leaving the mechanical manuals for the appliances and furnace in the kitchen drawer..,Back charged for plumbing damage after we bid to replace broken toilets and thaw to winterize property.., Back charged because we had cleaned a property out 1 1/2 years ago (at the time it was noted that it was in convey condition) and were given an order to convey check only to find that there was leaves in the garage from dozens of visiting inspections, a compromised toilet, lady bugs ALL over, and dirt (mud) from a spring flood thru the basement window on the basement floor...We gave them a bid for $125.00 to re-clean this property only to be told we had to do it for the $25.00 trip charge..................I know it ain't a lot of $$$ but if they can try and bend you over on the little stuff just wait until they really want to fucc you over. I'm done with re-submitting results because they don't look at the pics, I'm done responding to a dozen emails for every work order. If you do work for them they WILL fucc you over, and over, and over does matter how good your work is.
Allot may have to do with the inspectors get paid extra to find "problems" that do not exist so they get paid more, anyone can make a pic say "mold" even if it's just dirt.


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

Very true, they have gotten worse in 2015, even worse than they where before. Like I said, they are loosing clients over their BS, they hire incompetent office staff who dont know anything. I have a mole in house over there and word is they dropped the ball with the WF experiment, turnaround is horrible, and I do know for a fact that SL has started to receive P&P orders (WF) last week for the first time since 2013 in MI, which were previously going to 5 morons.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

JDRM said:


> Very true, they have gotten worse in 2015, even worse than they where before. Like I said, they are loosing clients over their BS, they hire incompetent office staff who dont know anything. I have a mole in house over there and word is they dropped the ball with the WF experiment, turnaround is horrible, and I do know for a fact that SL has started to receive P&P orders (WF) last week for the first time since 2013 in MI, which were previously going to 5 morons.



It's not a question of if with them it's only a matter of when.


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## adorler (Feb 24, 2013)

Same here, just quit working for them after 3 years. Attempted Back charges for work done some time ago, with no merit what so ever. Return to property and dry basement and replace sump pump at your cost...What?? I just installed a sump pump at that home and bid to repair electric service to it, since the line is dead, oh wait you never approved my bid to repair the electric that runs the sump pump..Oh not my bad, yours huh!


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

adorler said:


> Same here, just quit working for them after 3 years. Attempted Back charges for work done some time ago, with no merit what so ever. Return to property and dry basement and replace sump pump at your cost...What?? I just installed a sump pump at that home and bid to repair electric service to it, since the line is dead, oh wait you never approved my bid to repair the electric that runs the sump pump..Oh not my bad, yours huh!


it won't matter what proof you have be it pics, notes, bids...YOU WILL PAY


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

Sounds like the honeymoon is over. 

After getting screwed out of a trash out that the work order clearly stated to do and then the cubical monkey stated "oh no that wasn't supposed to be on the work order sorry we aren't going to pay you for the 40 yards of moldy debris you removed". My husband told them to take their work orders and shove it. Any back charges and they would have a lawyer on their a$$.
He waited a month after he was paid for work completed and made sure all 40 yards of debris went right back in the house. 
Oh the people he pissed off. The client wanted to know why the house now had all debris back in it, the bank was pissed, and 5 brothers had no answers for them. 

He no longer does any interior work for the two companies he gets work from exterior only.


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*Hi*

my question is to you contractors. If you know you did everything to the T, and getting chargebacks,why are you still working for these clowns,its amazing.


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm just investigating. Since this is new to me, I'm curious if it's new to others. My guess is if it's new, they are going under. If not they are just plain shady. Either way it doesn't make a difference in how I will move forward but it's good to know.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

PPArt said:


> I've been with them for 7 yrs now and have never had this issue. The back charges are one after another for 2015.





Craigslist Hack said:


> It's not a question of if with them it's only a matter of when.





Yup


I was with them for close to a year. There was about a 9 or 10 month honeymoon with them. 
That ended real quick like when the price of gas was going way up and I dropped a few zip codes the farthest from me. 
They got real sore about that. I don't know why, they were codes that either I had no work in ever or one job.
It was all down hill from there. At the second no charge W/O because another contractor found defective work of mine I ended our relationship.
In both cases the other contractor had sabotaged my work. One he stole all the valuables that were left (wasn't much) and then vandalized the 
property by kicking the doors OUT to look like a robbery. Hmmmmm, I always thought the door needed to be kicked IN to look like that.
He then turned the well back on to violate my wint and told them I hadn't done it in the first place and that the entire plumbing was broken 
needing to be replumbed so as to really try to stick it to me. All lies.

Then it got comical. They send me an email saying they were the ones ending it because I was not a team player and doing things the way they told me to. 
What ever, I was done with them, thats what counted.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Yup
> 
> 
> I was with them for close to a year. There was about a 9 or 10 month honeymoon with them.
> ...


We had a guy here that told his crews to screw the last contractor every chance they got so they would become the only contractor in the territory and never lose work. It sounded like a shady but possibly effective plan. I heard he had quit a few companies and was focusing on 5 bros, and SG. About 6 months after I heard that we were told that he had closed up shop and burned several subs.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> We had a guy here that told his crews to screw the last contractor every chance they got so they would become the only contractor in the territory and never lose work. It sounded like a shady but possibly effective plan. I heard he had quit a few companies and was focusing on 5 bros, and SG. About 6 months after I heard that we were told that he had closed up shop and burned several subs.






Worthless basturds in all walks of life. 

I'm a firm believer in what goes around comes around. 
One day karma will give him his in spades


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## AFSreo (Mar 19, 2015)

Just got a charge back today from five bros, $35 charge back for submitting a second bid 1hr and 17 minutes late from a final request. Yes I know we should of had it in before 10am, but we had two request to revise bid to demo drywall which it was wood, second bid which to drylock wood which was late. Smh How many bids and emails can you submit in one day and still keep your bogus request submitted on time?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

AFSreo said:


> Just got a charge back today from five bros, $35 charge back for submitting a second bid 1hr and 17 minutes late from a final request. Yes I know we should of had it in before 10am, but we had two request to revise bid to demo drywall which it was wood, second bid which to drylock wood which was late. Smh How many bids and emails can you submit in one day and still keep your bogus request submitted on time?


I thought you were a sub contractor?

I can understand them not considering your bid due to you not having it in by the deadline but a financial penalty?


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## AFSreo (Mar 19, 2015)

Funny thing about that charge back,email states it was hour late plus bid was revised wrong,yet I used the reps approved bid template and just filled in the blanks.....end of the road for this industry,


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## AFSreo (Mar 19, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> AFSreo said:
> 
> 
> > Just got a charge back today from five bros, $35 charge back for submitting a second bid 1hr and 17 minutes late from a final request. Yes I know we should of had it in before 10am, but we had two request to revise bid to demo drywall which it was wood, second bid which to drylock wood which was late. Smh How many bids and emails can you submit in one day and still keep your bogus request submitted on time?
> ...



Use to sub but lost to much money so we went to the nationals but seems like they are disappearing. Second charge back last one was we missed a breached toilet which was a far charge back but never give a no charge to correct the.mistake. We ask why stated because it's a aged loan. Where our the guidelines for all these new policy? And I just think $160 is a little pricey to remove half a cigar tobacco from a toilet and pour antifreeze.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

AFSreo said:


> Use to sub but lost to much money so we went to the nationals but seems like they are disappearing. Second charge back last one was we missed a breached toilet which was a far charge back but never give a no charge to correct the.mistake. We ask why stated because it's a aged loan. Where our the guidelines for all these new policy? And I just think $160 is a little pricey to remove half a cigar tobacco from a toilet and pour antifreeze.


If you do not get a W2 from 5 bros you are a sub. :thumbsup:


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

These siblings you speak of, are they hiring? I need some of this action.


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## ASTPROPMAINT (Jan 8, 2015)

So being the nieve on here. Now that this has happened to others what companies are there that are not sketchy? Have you moved on to other lines of work or are you still doing the same thing for others?


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> We had a guy here that told his crews to screw the last contractor every chance they got so they would become the only contractor in the territory and never lose work. It sounded like a shady but possibly effective plan. I heard he had quit a few companies and was focusing on 5 bros, and SG. About 6 months after I heard that we were told that he had closed up shop and burned several subs.



This is what happen to us I believe. It started out after returning to a property that we had initially secured to do a plumbing repair to find a guy tarping off the entire roof (there WERE stains in the ceiling we noted on the I.S.but a the roof was fairly new and upon investigating there were no leaks and we applied tape to them all (stains). Next time we came back to the property the basement walls had been dryloked (the basement was dry as a bone every time we have been there) Then we start noticing stuff like that at ALL our jobs and things went downhill....I guess you need to be a crook in this profession or get the shaft from the crook. I could go on and on. WE now only take work from on national ONLY if we know there is money to be made (or the opportunity). I'm making my own work now and it's WAY better


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

ASTPROPMAINT said:


> So being the nieve on here. Now that this has happened to others what companies are there that are not sketchy? Have you moved on to other lines of work or are you still doing the same thing for others?


All companies in this business are Sketchy and the ones who are less sketchy are the ones the Veteran contractors work for.

If you aren't doing something else you should be.


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

We've moved on to other lines of work since we haven't been able to find any that aren't sketchy and I refuse to be a crooked contractor.


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

Crooked you say....






PPArt said:


> We've moved on to other lines of work since we haven't been able to find any that aren't sketchy and I refuse to be a crooked contractor.


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## louisiana (Feb 2, 2015)

I appreciate all the info in these threads. I am wondering if the local company that I had problems with ( which works for Safeguard) decided that they had an issue with me because I was originally trained to be very , very precise, to take lots of pictures, if there is damage or questionable issues take a close up or two and then more pictures from a distance, document everything.. well after reading through all of this, I suspect that the man that I worked for ran into some issues... the very first job I went to for him, I know that he got in trouble because when I went in the house, I found tons of mold, all over the kitchen, very thick, on almost every baseboard, and just generally throughout the entire house, this is south louisiana and mold and mildew are common, you fight them every where on everything. but again.. i noted it all took extensive pictures.. well he got backcharged because his guys before me had been in that house multiple times, for assorted issues and never mentioned mold.. there were at least 2-3 houses that I went to that had been winterized by his guys that had water still in the commode tanks, that had anti freeze in one commode but not in the rest.. well I took the pictures the way that i was taught.. you take pictures of the whole bath room an over view, then the commode, then the tank.. you show what has or hasnt been done.. i found water still dripping from faucets that he been blown out, well i documented it all via pictures and words. so i now wonder if that is why he hasnt paid me.. because I caused him to have a problem, but it asnt on purpose, i am honest and ethical, in everything that i do and I try to do things correctly.. he wanted me deal with the mold issue, I said, i wasnt working for you when it was done, I documented the damage, I will do the work if you want but we have to discuss exactly what I am going to be paid and since you are certified in mold remediation you have to walk me through step by step exactly what you want done.. he found some other fool to do the work.

When I started I was told do the job correctly , if you are unsire ask, take pictures of everything, more pictures than you can ever imagine needing... so that is what I have always tried to do.. 

The company that I am subbing for now, a regional out of texas, has been very accomadating, we have found some of the same issues with wints and i can tell that they have sent someone to "fix" them at the houses that I go to frequently.. 


I believe in due diligence, there are always two sides to every story and often times things like somewhere in the grey area, but anyone who works for the companies that are routinely listed and talked about here is a fool or desperate, and while I am somewhat desperate, I am not a fool. I believe in due diligence, which means checking sights on the internet, rip off reports, better business bureau, forums, etc.. and see what kind of reputation that a company has... 

Nicole


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*Hi*

I hate to say this but if the contractors on here keep putting up with chargebacks,getting screwed on their money,keep working for lower pricing then you get what you deserve.as long as the companies keep getting away with it,it will only keep happening.
what would they do if they had no contractors? it's some contractors now that has drove the industry into the ground because you keep letting the companies bend you over.


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