# Insurance Question



## dpayne3626 (Jul 26, 2016)

I just want to make sure I am understanding this correct. These national and regional companies are in bed with some insurance companies, and they make you get crazy insurance in order to save themselves. If I don't plan on working with nationals and regionals, do I even need to get E&O? It would make sense to just go with a local insurance company rather than a nationwide one. Any thoughts?


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

They are definitely in bed with them. I had my insurance company tell me that even though I have insurance, it only covered my work with the Nationals. Needless to say I cancelled. This was from a big name insurance company within this line of work.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Years ago, when informed I had to use one of a specific three for my preservation insurance carrier, I grabbed my local agent and laid out exactly what I needed. After he got his head around the language in the documents and confirmed the legalities, he made some phone calls, made some more phone calls, and wrote a policy.
It was immediately declined by the nationals.
They didn't want the insurance company to be my advocate, they wanted them to be theirs.

Scenario A-
You rekey a property and 6 weeks later you get an email saying the hope diamond and the mortgager's Saab is missing. You pull your photos from the file, review your paperwork, talk to the subs and maybe make a quick call to your local agent before telling them to KYA.

Scenario B-
You get an email from the National maybe before or maybe not before the law firm on retainer from said National calls you and request a deposition regarding the events surrounding the theft. Count on their consultation triggering your deductible. They say they represent you, but you didn't hire them, they don't respond to your directives and they seem to be in regular contact with the national. You call and email the national and the Human Resources rep with an attitude similar to Squidwards tells you he'll look into it and get back to you. Their "back to you" consists of an email and/or letter months later dictating the settlement that was made to the homeowner via your insurance company. You'll be notified from them as well, and count on a rate increase your next fiscal year.

If you only work privately, depending on your area of expertise, you might only need general liability and E&O or more. Mortgage Field Service Insurance is kind of like spending your money at the company store for a suit that only fits your boss.


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## G 3 (May 3, 2015)

In this business, insurance is HIGHLY recommended. Despite working for local/private companies, there always could be an issue/complication for work you performed. Not saying you don't know what you are doing, or will make a mistake. But, there is always a chance. Just my 2 pennies worth.


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## buddhalite (Nov 12, 2015)

My GL policy has an endorsement that covers E&O (Prof. Liability) and has never been rejected by any company - national or regional....and my multi-million dollar policy is now down to less than $1,200/year....

I have never struggled with the 'insurance barrier' that many claim to be caught up in.


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## dpayne3626 (Jul 26, 2016)

May I ask who you use for your insurance buddhalite?


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## buddhalite (Nov 12, 2015)

My local insurance guy put my company with Western World. Even when I was new - these guys were 1/2 price or better than anyone else.

The policy includes a very generous professional endorsement (it's a specialty product for the preservation industry) and my policy just gets cheaper as time goes on.....of course I've never filed claim 1 - but they have been great as far as I know and cheap to boot.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

I'd get a new insurance agent or hire a 3rd party non-interested insurance consultant to review your coverage. Western World isnt filed to write P&P E&O they do Property Managers and inspectors (if Licensed or certified).


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

X2...


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

Whoops!!! :angel:


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## buddhalite (Nov 12, 2015)

You know, this is the kind of response that makes this XXXXXX message board so intolerable.

First off, XXXXXXXX, I never said that Western World wrote E&O - but rather they have a 'combo policy' that includes a professional endorsement, under which my company works for every national around with no issues, and that it's quite a bit cheaper than any E&O policy that I have seen by itself.

FWIW - maybe you should go talk to YOUR lazy, XXXXXXX insurance agent and ask his XXXXX why he's making you buy insurance you don't need.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

Here we go.....


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## buddhalite (Nov 12, 2015)

Yea, the can has been opened. But.....

Listen, for years I have been reading this forum (pre-spinoff even) and last year joined and started trying to participate.

This forum has an issue. There are 5-6 posters who simply control the whole thing - and all it is - simply a gripe fest.

If you try to post something positive - they attack and tell you that you're nuts whether it is warranted or not. The attack is always personal and rooted in their own personal failures and lack of precautions.

This business CAN and DOES make money for people - and just like EVERY business in this world - you don't profit for just showing up - you have to WORK! Yes, hard work PAYS OFF!

This business is not the easiest of ways to make your living - but once you learn how to control expenses - who to and not to work for - and make a few mistakes - you can earn a good living.

What business doesn';t have these pitfalls!???! That's right - none! Every business is fraught with issues that you have to find your way through. I'm sick of seeing noob's run off the board for asking legitimate questions. I have been in this business since '06....I've made a great living. My first post - I was torn up and shredded by XXXXX who didn't know me - didn't know my experience - and just discredited my assertion even though it was 100% true.

The reality is that with any business - it's always 100% YMMV. With the emphasis on the Y. 

Screw the can of worms - and let's focus on trying to help pepole - which, oh yeah, was the whole reason I chimed in to begin with - but for my opinion all I get is an asshole showing me his.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Well Buddalite,

Your kind response isn't worth commenting on but for what it's worth bucko....

Been owner of multiple Ins Brokerage firms
Been insurance licensed in Commercial, Residential, Surplus Lines, Crop, Hail, Bonds, Fllod, Auto, etc etc for 35 years
Licensed Independent Adjuster
Licensed Public Adjuster for commercial and residential

Oh did I say I used to write Western World Surplus policies?

Before you spout off maybe you should check your sources or better yet protect yourself properly and get an informed insurance broker. Just saying.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

buddhalite said:


> Yea, the can has been opened. But.....
> 
> Listen, for years I have been reading this forum (pre-spinoff even) and last year joined and started trying to participate.
> 
> ...


Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else here, including me. The old folks that post share their mistakes, screwups, regrets and embarrassments for the benefit of those who come in behind them. It's free advice. Hand holding and enabling however, doesn't happen here.

You are able to eat chicken that's sat on the counter for 4 days while most everyone else gets sick. Good for you but that doesn't mean the chicken is any good. There are lots of threads with helpful advice; you choose to see the other side. Anyway, share your points and experience and continue to give others a chance to learn from it. But knock the language off. Its a TOS agreement thing don't you know.


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## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

wannabe said:


> well buddalite,
> 
> your kind response isn't worth commenting on but for what it's worth bucko....
> 
> ...



" Gulp "


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## oteroproperties (Aug 10, 2012)

buddhalite said:


> Yea, the can has been opened. But.....
> 
> Listen, for years I have been reading this forum (pre-spinoff even) and last year joined and started trying to participate.
> 
> ...


I clicked the thank you button. If I could've clicked it 20 times I would have. 100% agree. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

hey wannabe, aren't you in this biz too? how do you have your hands in so many different things? Is it a failed attempt at several until you found the profitable one? or is it that you are so successful that you sit behind the computer while you have hundreds of employees that run your various businesses for you.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> hey wannabe, aren't you in this biz too? how do you have your hands in so many different things? Is it a failed attempt at several until you found the profitable one? or is it that you are so successful that you sit behind the computer while you have hundreds of employees that run your various businesses for you.


Lol. Good fortune :glasses:

For many on this forum I've had the pleasure of meeting in person and the many I've helped to be in profitable non-P&P businesses I think I'm about as humble and average as the next..

Yes I'm still in the business but on a very small scale--direct work only. In 2011 I sold my last Ins Agency and switched to being an advocate to homeowners/business owners in Insurance Claim negotiations. I own a Restoration Company that my son primarily operates-been in business 16-17 years and helped many realize their options of owning/operating profitable restoration companies. 

As far as P&P goes.....I got into P&P by accident---I wrote forced-placed Insurance policies on foreclosed homes and 1 thing led to another and through very hard work, not being greedy and paying subs 92% of invoice and only hiring the best I ended up as a Regional operating in 7 States with 365 crews direct for a Major Bank. I saw the direction this industry was heading back in 2009, it was all planned out many years ago with different industry leaders (some would blow your mind) so I weaned out of the industry model and left in 2011. I'm on the "sidelines" waiting for the business model used today to implode and then I may swoop in and play again...doubt it but never say never 

Hundreds of employees? Nope 

Im a hands-on type of guy


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## Allout (Jun 18, 2015)

Well said there is definitely money to be made. You have to be smarter than the average business guy cuz there are more companies out to get you than ever before. Take all advice with a grain of salt cuz every guy has their blood sweat and tears into making this work. A lot of good business men have been screwed in this line of work. So don't come on here thinking you will figure it all out and don't attack a senior member cuz he tried to help you out. All he said was watch your back cuz your insurance doesn't really protect you. Your ignorance can be placed on you and you only by the way. To think they will never come after you is just plain and simply stupid. Wannabe has and will continue to build profitable businesses cuz he is business smart ( get in while the gettings good). This is just is just a forum. Where open minded people post their thoughts about a subject. You have been in this industry for 10 years supposedly and come on here making stupid comments. What do you think will happen. After 10 years you should know what this industry is and what insurances have worked for you. So maybe next time comment in a better section and tell about how this worked for your business.


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## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

Allout said:


> Well said there is definitely money to be made. You have to be smarter than the average business guy cuz there are more companies out to get you than ever before. Take all advice with a grain of salt cuz every guy has their blood sweat and tears into making this work. A lot of good business men have been screwed in this line of work. So don't come on here thinking you will figure it all out and don't attack a senior member cuz he tried to help you out. All he said was watch your back cuz your insurance doesn't really protect you. Your ignorance can be placed on you and you only by the way. To think they will never come after you is just plain and simply stupid. Wannabe has and will continue to build profitable businesses cuz he is business smart ( get in while the gettings good). This is just is just a forum. Where open minded people post their thoughts about a subject. You have been in this industry for 10 years supposedly and come on here making stupid comments. What do you think will happen. After 10 years you should know what this industry is and what insurances have worked for you. So maybe next time comment in a better section and tell about how this worked for your business.



I would thank that 100 times if I could


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

Wannabe said:


> For many on this forum I've had the pleasure of meeting in person and the many I've helped to be in profitable non-P&P businesses I think I'm about as humble and average as the next..


I knew it!!! He's just a greedy arrogant incompetent lazy *%#!!!*&!

Seriously, how cool is it for us to get answers and tips FOR FREE from that much experience and credentials. Thanks Wannabe. Some people act like they are paying a premium to use this forum. :vs_worry:

Back to the original topic...

How are these "preferred" insurance providers and policies making money on policies they know there is a higher percentage chance of a claim, possibly quite large, say in a mold cover up case or something. The underwriters have to know the crooked tactics of the nationals, they have to know they're going to pay out sooner than later. What piece of the money trail am I missing?


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

safeguard dropout said:


> I knew it!!! He's just a greedy arrogant incompetent lazy *%#!!!*&!
> 
> Seriously, how cool is it for us to get answers and tips FOR FREE from that much experience and credentials. Thanks Wannabe. Some people act like they are paying a premium to use this forum. :vs_worry:
> 
> ...



I'm curious if it is legal to only have approved insurance agents. Not insurance companies. These preferred insurance companies that these nationals are requiring us to use are only brokers, the policy is written through them for the same insurance companies and same policies my local broker could write. I understand having certain coverages, even the fine print stuff, but to tell us we have to use this company is crazy. Also how convenient the policy costs over 2x as much as my local broker could write the same policy. Someone is getting paid!!


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*One of my insurance agents that would not write*



madxtreme01 said:


> I'm curious if it is legal to only have approved insurance agents. Not insurance companies. These preferred insurance companies that these nationals are requiring us to use are only brokers, the policy is written through them for the same insurance companies and same policies my local broker could write. I understand having certain coverages, even the fine print stuff, but to tell us we have to use this company is crazy. Also how convenient the policy costs over 2x as much as my local broker could write the same policy. Someone is getting paid!!


an E&O policy for me, told me it is quite illegal to require a particular company.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Ohnojim said:


> an E&O policy for me, told me it is quite illegal to require a particular company.




I have always has E&O and GL as a combined policy, but I wanted to get grass cuts for MCS last year since they pay pretty well. I am currently doing them as a sub for someone and wanted additional volume. I had a policy that costed just under $1k/yr for revenue listed as 50k and no subs (not really truthful, but I don't want to overpay for insurance either) and then called Insurancetek which was one of their approved vendors, insurance for the same coverage cost $2300 for the year. In the end I received less than $100 from MCS and they told me there wasn't a need in my area, I told them to screw off as I already lost $1300 on their BS after their recruiter told me they did have work for me, and that will be the last time I switch insurance for hopes of getting work. So although it might be illegal for them to have approved only carriers, who's going to stand up to them and win? If you do stand up win or loose, you won't get the work, so either you cave, or look elsewhere.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I took a different route*

when I signed up for companies, I told them I would get E&O after I did some work for them and decided it was worth it. I dropped the first two companies, and kept the third and then got E&O. I also drug that out to the very end. If they really need you, they will bend the rules for you.


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