# Will Banks ever approve a 40Acre Debris Removal?



## Zoly (Feb 2, 2013)

I have a few 40cy / 70 cy bids but just looked up a property I did a bid on and it is not the 3 acres I bid on but actually 40 acres of rural dumping lands. Probably 200cubes. Would they ever approve that? The house isn't worth anything imo but the land is.


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## ontimepres (Jan 4, 2013)

I have seen bid approvals for 250+ CYDs .... I have a love-hate relationship with rural properties


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Zoly said:


> I have a few 40cy / 70 cy bids but just looked up a property I did a bid on and it is not the 3 acres I bid on but actually 40 acres of rural dumping lands. Probably 200cubes. Would they ever approve that? The house isn't worth anything imo but the land is.


Cover your azz on that. It is my personal experience that the larger the CYD becomes, the more likely there is for invoice adjustments. When you're over 200 CYD, what's a 20 CYD adjustment right? :sad: I told an ex client that I'd never do a trashout over 60 CYD because I couldn't afford a 40 CYD invoice adjustment 60 days down the road.

The one rural property I had like that, I had an excavation company give me a bid. I took their bid, NO CYD listed, just complete job and marked up and turned it in. Went round and round "we need a CYD amount". I said bullchit, turn it into HUD as an over allowable and get it approved. I would have lost my azz because I new damn well they were going to dock the invoice long after I paid my excavator. I did end up turning in a lien waiver and a receipt showing paid in full but i whited out the amount that I paid. :thumbsup:


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## Freddie (Jun 13, 2012)

I personally did a 350 yarder 2 weeks before my wedding in 2010. Never got docked a dime and knock it out with a skid steer with a grapple bucket. It was quite fun for the first day.... But by the 2nd I was whooped


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I would not do anything for a national over 50 cyds without preapproval in writing. We were getting the recount nonsense 3-4 years ago when the industry was still in high gear. Rural trashouts almost are always loaded with tires, paint, plenty of hazards. Local jobs, never a problem.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

I get bids from a local demolition company for jobs like that. They roll in a crew with skid steers, front end loaders, dump trucks, whatever they need. They have it all and they are used to dealing with large volumes of debris on short time tables. 

I add my percentage on top and some to cover what I know they will try and cut me before we agree on a price and that is my bid. No CY count, just a price.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

I did a 400 yarder a year ago on 1 acres. Bid it through the national and gave the same bid to the broker as Fannie wanted 2 bids. Got the approval through the broker.....


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## warranpiece (Jun 15, 2012)

I Agree with BRAD and MTMTman. The two things to do are get a solid approval in writing, and maintain contact with the broker. Offer them a bid. That has worked for us as well. The brokers don't (or rarely) tack on more for themslves, so your bid through them is already going to be 20%- 30% lower from the perspective of the client.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

When in doubt...ALWAYS get it in writing....


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> When in doubt...ALWAYS get it in writing....


 Hey Clean-I'll go ya one better, GET IT IN WRITING. PERIOD!


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> I did a 400 yarder a year ago on 1 acres. Bid it through the national and gave the same bid to the broker as Fannie wanted 2 bids. Got the approval through the broker.....


I bet you had to take less pictures, didn't get a chargeback and probably got paid faster too........


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Zoly said:


> I have a few 40cy / 70 cy bids but just looked up a property I did a bid on and it is not the 3 acres I bid on but actually 40 acres of rural dumping lands. Probably 200cubes. Would they ever approve that? The house isn't worth anything imo but the land is.







200 cubes?? Is that all?????



If its spread out across the acreage I'd do like the other guys are saying and bid it as a clean up, forget cubes. 
I'd base my bid on approx $50 per cube. Depending on the type of debris you may need to adjust +/- from there.


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## dac1204 (Feb 16, 2013)

I have done a couple of huge removals. When they are over 70
Cyds or when they are scattered I bid by the job and not the cyd.
I had one that was about 75 cyds interior and exterior and i bid it for 
$2900 and got it back. At the time I had 6 guys working for me but i only 2 big trailers so I rented a 24' uhaul and loaded all of the non nasty stuff up 
And still took 8 trailer loads with it. We got it done in just under two days.
I did another one with 70 cyds but all big stuff mostly and alot of nasty stuff in the back yard but it wasnt scattered just piled up. I had 5 guys but my wife had 
Watched my two nieces for a month during the summer so my brother owed me.
Him and his wife came so that made it seven people and we got it done in one day with a 7 x 14, 6 x 16 and and 6 x 12 uhaul trailer. I charged $2500 on that 
One and walked away with $1500 after labor, dump, and fuel fees.


I did one that was about 60 cyds but was all trash out sode and was 
Scattered so i rented a bob cat and two dump trailers and went to town.
I only had me and another guy on that one. Took us 3 days but i cut and 
Removed three fallen trees, a maid service, and seeded the front yard. 
I charged $4800 for that job and walked away with $3300 after everything.

There was about 3500 tires at the same house and all of them in a ravine. 
I bid $21000 and had a guy that would take them (for recycling) if I could 
Getthem there about 1 hour away. It would have taken us weeks to get 
Those tires out because they were all dumped down there with no wAy to 
Get to them except rig up a pulley and 300' of wire and winch them out. 



I am glad i didnt get that bid. It was an reo and they tried selling it
As is for $10000 it had five acres but the house was a goner. Ill dig 
Up the pictures qnd post some if i can find them. It was wild seeing 
That many tires.


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## Zoly (Feb 2, 2013)

I guess I am lucky with the dump guys here. I paid $155 and get unlimited dumping. No questions asked. Just no metal and no construction debris that you can't carry by hand in one trip. How come 75 cyds took you 8 uhaul trips? They're like 24' by 4ft min. Worse case you could get about 45Cyds in the back right? The last story is like this how. House is absolutely horrible but the 40 acres isn't bad just littered.


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## dac1204 (Feb 16, 2013)

I founf them here are a few of the ones I took. As you can see they go way down and about even across.


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## dac1204 (Feb 16, 2013)

Zoly said:


> I guess I am lucky with the dump guys here. I paid $155 and get unlimited dumping. No questions asked. Just no metal and no construction debris that you can't carry by hand in one trip. How come 75 cyds took you 8 uhaul trips? They're like 24' by 4ft min. Worse case you could get about 45Cyds in the back right? The last story is like this how. House is absolutely horrible but the 40 acres isn't bad just littered.


 
we put all of the big stuff in the uhaul and then had to bag up the trash outside. If you bring the uhaul back dirty they charge you an arm and a leg. You do not actually get that many cyds in the back because I do not compress anything. We stack it the best as possible and go on. We used 108 husky contractor bags for the garbage in the back yard. We only used the uhaul one day and then my trailers the other day.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

On those tires.................... brother you are looking at a night mare unless you bid that right!!!!!


I would bid that crazy high and make them give you 50% down. Other wise no deal!!!!!!
A job like this could put you out of business if done wrong!

What you do upon winning the bid is rent a semi van trailer, load it up and haul it to the middle of nowhere and abandon it. lol, just kidding

Bid it high and hope you get it.


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## dac1204 (Feb 16, 2013)

BPWY said:


> On those tires.................... brother you are looking at a night mare unless you bid that right!!!!!
> 
> 
> I would bid that crazy high and make them give you 50% down. Other wise no deal!!!!!!
> ...


 
That property was over a year ago and no one got the bid. The HOA liened the property so they couldnt sell it. To this day it still sits there vacant. The HOA called the EPA and got them involved. Do not know what happened after that but apparently nothing because they are still there.


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## Zoly (Feb 2, 2013)

Here is a sample of the 40 Acre lot we're dealing with. I'll spare you the 40 pictures of garbage everywhere.


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## dac1204 (Feb 16, 2013)

yeah I could never do that or any job like that by the cube. That is not something that you can just go in and pick up, put it on a trailer and go. Those jobs are strictly bid as clean ups and by the job only.


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## ThorntonServicesDFW (Nov 12, 2012)

Hello all i need some help as well...Would you discount a property do to have too many cubic yards of debris? Im bidding on a property 10 acers 1,650 cubic yard of waste throughout property...This bid is gonna be way high if i bid at my normal rate per cubic yard..Should I discount it due to the job being so big or just turn the bid in and see what happends....The property has a 8,000 sq ft house and 2,500 sq ft shop...The Interior debris is only 83 cubic yards, and the rest is spread over the acerage..What should i do?

Thanks


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Like every one else is saying bid that by the job. 

And CYA, if there is that much stuff you may easily run into hidden hazards etc. 

If you think there is 1650 cubes I'd base it on $50 +/- what you see out there. 
If you KNOW for a fact a lot of it is metal that can be recycled you can cut it down. 
Keep in mind things like that have a way of disappearing off the job site prior to your trash out. 
I wouldn't base much of a price reduction on what you might be able to recycle. 

On a job of this size bid it high to CYA on the unknowns. Like I mentioned previously a job like this bid wrong can put a company out of business.
Maybe Wannabe will come by and offer some advice on a job of this size.


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## Zoly (Feb 2, 2013)

Wow, that's a crazy job. We're almost empty on our business cash just from the huge jobs we've been doing lately. Can't wait til the checks for this month start coming in.


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## ThorntonServicesDFW (Nov 12, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Like every one else is saying bid that by the job.
> 
> And CYA, if there is that much stuff you may easily run into hidden hazards etc.
> 
> ...


Wow.....That would be $82,500 for debris removal.... @ 50 a cubic yard


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## ThorntonServicesDFW (Nov 12, 2012)

Whats the biggest job of debris removal that anybodies heard of?


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

ThorntonServicesDFW said:


> Wow.....That would be $82,500 for debris removal.... @ 50 a cubic yard






What figure did you have in mind?


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## dac1204 (Feb 16, 2013)

ThorntonServicesDFW said:


> Wow.....That would be $82,500 for debris removal.... @ 50 a cubic yard


You will never get that job back as the bank will sell as is and just
Remove the hazards. They will lower the price on the property and get someone to buy it.


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## ThorntonServicesDFW (Nov 12, 2012)

BPWY said:


> What figure did you have in mind?


Well is was thinking doing it for $35,000 total job...


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## ThorntonServicesDFW (Nov 12, 2012)

dac1204 said:


> You will never get that job back as the bank will sell as is and just
> Remove the hazards. They will lower the price on the property and get someone to buy it.


Its an investment property, It was purchased to be flipped...This company does total rehabs on all the properties they get....


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

ThorntonServicesDFW said:


> Well is was thinking doing it for $35,000 total job...





I guess I might have had more of the idea of 200 yrds in mind when I said $50 per.
I just know that you gotta make sure your A is covered in the event you find unseen hazards. If you were to run into lets say an asbestos situation I'm thinking $35k might not be enough depending on what all else is there.


With loaders and dump trucks you might be able to get things cleaned up in a timely fashion. Make sure to get 50% of the price down before you start. 

Take lots of pics for us.



If investors bought this place with so much junk you know they had to have gotten a screaming price on it.


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## ThorntonServicesDFW (Nov 12, 2012)

BPWY said:


> I guess I might have had more of the idea of 200 yrds in mind when I said $50 per.
> I just know that you gotta make sure your A is covered in the event you find unseen hazards. If you were to run into lets say an asbestos situation I'm thinking $35k might not be enough depending on what all else is there.
> 
> 
> ...


I have never asked for any money up front, but then i have never done such a big job....Is this common for companies to ask for money up front? Im estimate this job to cost around $18000 + or - a few thousand....


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> I bet you had to take less pictures, didn't get a chargeback and probably got paid faster too........



How about NO PICTURES??? Nearly a 15K job.............


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

ThorntonServicesDFW said:


> I have never asked for any money up front, but then i have never done such a big job....Is this common for companies to ask for money up front? Im estimate this job to cost around $18000 + or - a few thousand....


I wouldn't touch a P&P job for that amount without some money up front. I'd also need a flawless relationship with whomever the client is. Too much can go wrong and put your business in a world of hurt on a job that size.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

ThorntonServicesDFW said:


> Hello all i need some help as well...Would you discount a property do to have too many cubic yards of debris? Im bidding on a property 10 acers 1,650 cubic yard of waste throughout property...This bid is gonna be way high if i bid at my normal rate per cubic yard..Should I discount it due to the job being so big or just turn the bid in and see what happends....The property has a 8,000 sq ft house and 2,500 sq ft shop...The Interior debris is only 83 cubic yards, and the rest is spread over the acerage..What should i do?
> 
> Thanks



Find the broker and bid it through him. Service co. will pick a job like that apart....


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

ThorntonServicesDFW said:


> Its an investment property, It was purchased to be flipped...This company does total rehabs on all the properties they get....


 
Thornton,

Investors are a different Cat.... We only do investor work and realtor work on foreclosed properties..period (Don't trust ANY Service Company). 

Treat your bid/estimate like any other debris removal service company would. Do NOT think in terms of Property Preservation! Forget the CYD and think more on profit/overhead vs expense and bid accordingly.

If you know that you will have disposal costs of $6,000, equipment (skidloader/backhoe) costs and the other misc expenses figured correctly (fudge at least 20-25% for unexpected) than you will only be left with your labor hours. We estimate at $47.70/hour per man x approx hours. Once this figure is found then add 20-25% for Profit/overhead for your grand total. 

Understand this: Investors are investors for a reason! They have the money and they got it being savvy. YOU as a businessman/woman has to be savvy also in order to retain a profitable business. Stick to your pricing or know what your bottom discounted pricing is. 

To have a little leverage call or google the Tax Assessors Office and find out how much was paid to purchase the property THEN guesstimate what the value of the home is in "sellable" condition. This will tell you "about" what you will get for the debris cleanup. Most Investors we do business with want a 15-25% profit if sellable in 30-45 days. Subtract THEIR profit margin in the cushion price you can charge.

FYI we have had debris cleanouts up to $60,000 a few times! Hard and very time consuming....had 1 that took 3 weeks with 12 guys. Turned a handsome profit but wouldn't do it again----could of done 10 other jobs in the same time span and had even more profit without all the headaches.

Make sure to have proper contracts signed before start of work and most definately have a downpayment--we do 33% down, 33% at 50% completion and the remaining due within 30 days of finish. No Lien Waivers until job is completed and payment in full has cleared bank. Be a licensed Contractor is normally required and any DOT/EPA/DNR Licenses where required. 

Goodluck


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## ThorntonServicesDFW (Nov 12, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> Find the broker and bid it through him. Service co. will pick a job like that apart....


I am bidding straight threw the broker...Already explained the deal with them and they have seen and we have walked the property together..They understand how much stuff there is on this property..Plus this is a major client for the broker... Im not greedy but at the same time dont wanna make less money than what could be possibly be made just cause the amount is so large..With the clean up and rehab, there gonna be spending over $100,000 or more..But all fixed up this property will or should sell around $800,000 to $900,000...God only know how much they purchased it for...pennies on the dollar....

So what would yall do? normal rate per cubic yard? or discount cause of amount of yards? 

50 yards at $50 dont look so bad....But 1500 yards at $50......Damn....lol

Just looking for opinions..


Thanks


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

I'll reiterate what Wannabe said. Take the P&P mentality on this one and throw it in the trash. Figure your Time (fair billable hour) + Materials (fees, equipment, fuel, etc.) and add at least 25%. Once you have that amount figured, divide it by your total Cube count and bid the job at that rate. Not a penny less. 
Good luck. Could turn into a good job, not one I'd pursue but for those who are more ambitious than I am I could see it being lucrative.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

ThorntonServicesDFW said:


> So what would yall do? normal rate per cubic yard? or discount cause of amount of yards?
> 
> 
> Just looking for opinions..
> ...





Re-read Wannabe's post, he knows his stuff.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

P3+ said:


> I'll reiterate what Wannabe said. Take the P&P mentality on this one and throw it in the trash. Figure your Time (fair billable hour) + Materials (fees, equipment, fuel, etc.) and add at least 25%. Once you have that amount figured, divide it by your total Cube count and bid the job at that rate. Not a penny less.
> Good luck. Could turn into a good job, not one I'd pursue but for those who are more ambitious than I am I could see it being lucrative.





I know several friends that already have equipment, loaders, dump trucks etc. 
I'd sub the job to them.


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