# Mold



## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

Ok I know we have discussed this many times but the stupidity never ceases to amaze me.
Can someone tell me ( I know about the bleach and Kilz) but please explain how a contractor can give a bid to bleach clean and kilz mold on a ceiling from a roof leak.
Can they explain how this will help when, what about the studs behind the drywall. If the ceiling leaked, doesn't it just make sense that the area above will be affected.


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## Click1764 (Oct 5, 2012)

can you just tell them that bleach doesn't kill mold and killz doesn't do anything at all put just paint over it


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## npm (Nov 14, 2012)

If it's from a roof leak the affected area's need removed. Only treatment would be for the sheathing and studs. drywall insulation would need to be removed. If mold is visible on interior ceiling imagine how bad it is on the other side. I bet they want it bid at less then $3.00 per sq ft too.


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

brm1109 said:


> Ok I know we have discussed this many times but the stupidity never ceases to amaze me.
> Can someone tell me ( I know about the bleach and Kilz) but please explain how a contractor can give a bid to bleach clean and kilz mold on a ceiling from a roof leak.
> Can they explain how this will help when, what about the studs behind the drywall. If the ceiling leaked, doesn't it just make sense that the area above will be affected.


If the ceiling leaked, doesn't it just make sense that the area above will be affected ????? 
It makes too much sence but the banks and servicers don't care because when it is not fixed right it wont be their neck in the noose !! But the whole discoloration ... mold or whatever you want to call it arena is changing with the disclosure that the realtors have to sign soooooooo if you send them an E mail with the fact that there is a mold issue at the property and it is not disclosed and it sells and comes back perhaps on you and you have the Email to show it was reported but not disclosed ..... !!


BAck up back up to an external hard drive


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## Click1764 (Oct 5, 2012)

you should check with your local regs to see if you can even call it mold.. sometimes for legal reasons you just being a contractor and not being certified in mold remediation means you cant even use that word in your paper work legally


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

For all the book learning and certifications Agency's and Cert Companies profess ... The practical solution is to stop what is causing mold, discoloration...what ever the word of the month is. 

Once the source has been stopped, you isolate the area of issue and then pending on the price a client wants to pay... you go after the mold be complete removal or chemical treatment. Finally you make the area non-conducive for it to grow by advising the client that it is their responsibilty to maintain the area to inhibit re-occurence.

The reality of it is that those with the green believe "kilz and bleach" do the trick. If that's what they want to pay for then give it to'em. If they want "certified" you give them a price for "certified" cleaning. The ong an short of it is that it's all in the numbers...ya want a Yugo or ya want a Cadillac .


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> The reality of it is that those with the green believe "kilz and bleach" do the trick. If that's what they want to pay for then give it to'em. If they want "certified" you give them a price for "certified" cleaning. The ong an short of it is that it's all in the numbers...ya want a Yugo or ya want a Cadillac .


Sorry, but I'm not buying "if that's what they want give it to them." I'm a state licensed contractor and I do primanily exterior renovation. The two things major "I want items are"

1. "I'm paying you to do the work and I don't want to pay extra to follow lead safe RRP rules"

2. "I want my roof done cheap. I know there are two layers but can you just install a 3rd one over the top to save money"

So your logic is I should violate laws & building codes exposing myself and business to the liabilty that comes with it, just because that's what they want to pay? :blink: 

For me, its not about a Yugo or a Cadillac. It's about doing the right thing. Do I land every job? No. Do I want the jobs that aren't done correctly? No. The Craigslist handymen can have them. No offense to any CL handymen here.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Click1764 said:


> you should check with your local regs to see if you can even call it mold.. sometimes for legal reasons you just being a contractor and not being certified in mold remediation means you cant even use that word in your paper work legally


Anyone can "legally" call it mold...the powers to be just don't want you to because it triggers a bunch of hazmat issues and disclosure issues that will effect the sale of the home....If mold call it ,old and write it up properly so you doan't get youself in a jam...
Umless of course you prefer the green,black and white fuzzy stuff that stronly resembles sporadic fungi


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> The reality of it is that those with the green believe "kilz and bleach" do the trick. If that's what they want to pay for then give it to'em.


When it comes to mold remediation, what the client wants doesn't always matter. Plenty have thought they made quick and easy money on bleach and kilz only to get pulled back into the fray by their short hairs when the property fails an air test.Could be weeks, could be months, could be years.


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## findfrank (Oct 9, 2012)

*Stupid is as Stupid does*

How about Purchasing a Dehumidifier and being told to plug it into the wall socket , Take a Picture and we'll pay you.
Well how about the electric is shut off 
just plug it in and you'll get paid 
OK whatever


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> Sorry, but I'm not buying "if that's what they want give it to them." I'm a state licensed contractor and I do primanily exterior renovation. The two things major "I want items are"
> 
> 1. "I'm paying you to do the work and I don't want to pay extra to follow lead safe RRP rules"
> 
> ...




1st I made no mention of doing illegal practices, The right thing is of course the Cadillac; however when provided a Spec. Book (i.e. a WO that says to Bleach an Kilz) from a client that says this is how we want...that is generally the way the Project gets bid..with all appropriate caveats an disclaimers.

With 25 years in the commercial construction industry and the necessary Haz-Woper, ACM & RRP certs I know right thing is. I too won't take a job that skirts Local Codes or State guidelines, but I will bid a job for what a Client requests an make them fully aware with what the standard guidelines are and insert the necessary verbiage to protect ourselves.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Had this argument in Cyprexx training class a couple of months back. 

She showed a picture of what was obviously mold, bad mold, and called it discoloration. I raised my hand and asked, "Discoloration means mold?"

She turned on me and said we never ever say the "M" word. I said, "Why?" 

She said because we are not qualified to identify it as mold. 

I said I am because when I was a commercial Project Manager I went to training held by Skanska construction on the identification of mold in hospitals and how to properly set up isolation areas with negative pressure ventillation and air filtration sytems as well as an overview of the diffrent types of PPE required to remediate it. 

So if I call it discoloration I am opening myself to liability becuase I have had training on how to recognize it and to not point it out would open myself to liability becasue I did not disclose it to my customer, you. And what you choose to do with the informtion I provide is none of my concern, but I will always report mold as mold. 

Both her and the Fannie May rep gave me the stink eye, but they could not come up with and arguement for that one and changed to subject.


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

Gypsos said:


> Had this argument in Cyprexx training class a couple of months back.
> 
> She showed a picture of what was obviously mold, bad mold, and called it discoloration. I raised my hand and asked, "Discoloration means mold?"
> 
> ...


GREAT JOB HOLD your ground as I do and they will have to come around to REALITY.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

He ist ein troublemaker zat vun....


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

Right or wrong, IMHO there is a different between a little mold in the corner of a basement block wall due to seepage, and an entire bedroom covered in mold from a roof leak, or a basement with 4' of mold due to standing water from an inoperable sump pump.


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

findfrank said:


> How about Purchasing a Dehumidifier and being told to plug it into the wall socket , Take a Picture and we'll pay you.
> Well how about the electric is shut off
> just plug it in and you'll get paid
> OK whatever


i do ten a year like that makes me laff my asz off right down to the drain line etc etc


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

68W30 said:


> i do ten a year like that makes me laff my asz off right down to the drain line etc etc


I did 7 or 8 this year. A week later, got a trip charge work order on every single one of them to return to the  property and turn it on because "they" finally got around to having the power restored.

After the first one, I smartened up and took a picture of the main breaker shut off. That would suffice to the PoCo so I wouldn't have to sit and wait for up to 4 hours for the reconnect. Otherwise, around here at least, you have to be present for the PoCo to reconnect.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> Right or wrong, IMHO there is a different between a little mold in the corner of a basement block wall due to seepage, and an entire bedroom covered in mold from a roof leak, or a basement with 4' of mold due to standing water from an inoperable sump pump.


I agree, however, what happens if there are broken windows or the HVAC is on and the spores have been blown throughout the house? Just because its not visible, doesn't mean its not there.

My biggest b!tch is the bleach. I had a small patch from a leaky ice maker line that was dripping. I bid a biocide and had it kicked back to me saying the work order specifys bleach. Bunch of retards! Everything else I bid to have a restoration co evaluate. Then you get the "you can't bid to obtain a bid" email.......


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

I just bid a mold removale in a bath. I bid $120.00 as it was within the tub and figured that this would be a stand alone bid and I'm not doing a reservice without a min. charge. They came back that " above industry standard pricing".....How about $50.00. AH, well NO. I ain't going back 35 miles after they apply thier "discount"


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

All houses have mold... it's a matter of degree. There's the black crap, green stuff, clear crystallized things that grow in attic in the absence of moisture. 
Like everything...things get blown out of proportion, and people don't use common sense anymore... like Gypso states above...for people to call it "discoloration" is like they used say...she's half pregnant.


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

Ok, so who wants to bid to bleach clean and Kilz this. Duh, it is a leaking ceiling with a hole in it. Maybe there is damage above it. They can't understand why I will not bid this.
This is what another guy bid to bleach and Kilz. lol


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

brm1109 said:


> Ok, so who wants to bid to bleach clean and Kilz this. Duh, it is a leaking ceiling with a hole in it. Maybe there is damage above it. They can't understand why I will not bid this.
> This is what another guy bid to bleach and Kilz. lol


you'd probablly make more money picking the mushrooms ( in the ceiling ) from the (possible) water leak and selling them them off the job 

HA


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

I just took a lookat a property that had a flat roof and yes MANY roof leaks. VEry active roof leaks. It has not had power for 3.5 years which is sad it was a once well known property in the city and hte police officer that I called to clear it was VERY familiar with it. Seems like teh Bank that had it just let it sit till now and it is going back to Fannie ( you and me) we bailed tham out. It has ben broken into fixtures stolen and one exterior wall is dang near gone. Studs are there but thats it , and the sand mix stucco. NO plywood and it is missing 4 ft on one corner and 3 ft on the intersecting one. CAll a track hoe I say. Where does the loaning bank not the insurer have the right to let it go bad demand the insurer take it back and get away with it ?? it has not started to mold on the interior of an exterior wall but it is comming I coukld hear a steady drip drip drip and it was leaking in the wall behind some cabinets. This is a liability (mold) no matter how you look at it.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

This was one of the subjects discussed on tonights webinar with Service Providers from Hawaii to Florida in attendence....It was a collective agreement that we are going to start having a webinar every week...If you didnot tune in toonight check my update thread for the link information...Good stuff...


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

I use Microsoft Notepad to copy/paste bid descriptions that re-occur. This is my bid to "treat" mold:

"Bidding to treat area of mold with bleach and/or mold control product, and paint over with white Kilz. This method of treatment does not guarantee there will be no regrowth of mold. This method of treatment should in no way be considered mold abatement, removal, or prevention. Should [National] and/or the client choose this method of mold treatment, [National] and the client assume all responsibility for any claims, of any kind, due to the presence of mold and also agree [My Company] will not be held liable for any claims that may arise due to the presence of mold." 

And if the mold is more than a small patch of surface mold, caused by humidity, and more than we, as a non-trained mold abatement contractor, can effectively handle:

"No bid to treat mold. The usual practice of treat with bleach and paint over will not suffice. Mold has grown from behind wall/ceiling
onto the surface. The proper way to handle this type of mold is to remove the affected surfaces, treat all areas affected by mold and replace the sheetrock. There is a high probability that mold is growing under the surface. This type of mold treatment is beyond our scope."

Clint Eastwood - "A man has got to know his limitations."


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> I use Microsoft Notepad to copy/paste bid descriptions that re-occur. This is my bid to "treat" mold:
> 
> "Bidding to treat area of mold with bleach and/or mold control product, and paint over with white Kilz. This method of treatment does not guarantee there will be no regrowth of mold. This method of treatment should in no way be considered mold abatement, removal, or prevention. Should [National] and/or the client choose this method of mold treatment, [National] and the client assume all responsibility for any claims, of any kind, due to the presence of mold and also agree [My Company] will not be held liable for any claims that may arise due to the presence of mold."
> 
> ...


Nice wording, but. . .

At least in Montana, a contractor is responsible for the work he does, period. The courts view any particular contractor as a professional who has the capability of realizing if/when a certain service is beyond their ability to perform. As a professional, the courts then require that company to either reject the work, or perform it & warranty it according to industry standards. The disclaimer can be 10 pages long, but if it is not legally signed by both parties, the court does not even start to recognize it. 

Learned all this the hard way in a different industry.

Also, this last summer, I cleaned and treated 3 spots of visible "discoloration" each the side of a quarter from the underside of the roof sheeting and then installed a humidistat controlled attic fan. The realtor & I discussed the "discoloration" extensively & decided that it was not mold & had nothing to do with an inadequitly ventilated attic. the realtor asked us to clean it up anyway. The house was a FMac. When the house went under contract, I get a call from the buyer asking about the extent of the mold remediation. I talked to him & explained exactly what was done, then asked him how he heard about me? He said that my companies name was plastered in the FMac paperwork as being the mold remediation company! Am I on the hook for this one. . .:yes::yes::yes:


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

PropPresPro,

Thank YOU! These guys just don't get it...that when these houses sell YOUR name is all over the documents for whatever type of service you performed. I have been very blessed with all the calls from unhappy homebuyers who thought the house was remediated by a MOLD RESTORATION


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yep, (pick any length of time) from the new homeowner to their buying agent to the selling agent, to the previous lender, to the assett management company, to the regional, to your listed insurance carrier, then finally to guess who....you. Think getting a letter from the IRS is bad, well they usually only come once a year.


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