# Ok REALLY need some opinions BIDDING *DISCOLORATION*



## Guest

Hey ya'll, We've been doing light construction, REO, PPO work for nearly 6yrs. I had a bid request for discoloration treatment at a house...ok usually straight forward. I got there and its a new house, finished daylight basement and 4ft high around every drywalled room up to the drywall seam was pitch black. Water infiltrated somewhere and wicked up the drywall to the seam. It could be plumbing but from the research Ive done it seems like missing sump pump, heavy rains and no gutters were probable cause. 

That being said, we've done smaller areas, but so much, so thick is making me think that I should bid to have it done by certified abatement professional, just to cover the bases. 

What would you guys do?? I have considered becoming certified, anyone here suggest a school, online training, ect. Want to be able to inspect and abate correctly to ensure its done correctly.

Thanks a bunch!!


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## thanohano44

Have a certified pro. Personally, if I have any doubt or confusion as to what the cause of the problem is, I get a professional. You don't want to get nailed to the wall by these nationals!!


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## Guest

If its as bad as you say, get a pro. Everything is going to be torn out ,bagged and disposed. Theirs just to much risk for you. If you get rid of it, and it comes back your on the hook. These type of jobs run into the thousands, and tens of thousands. And you shouldn't want that liability.


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## Guest

Agreed don't take the change even if you don't make that much money its still worth not haven to put up with a big old mess!!!


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## Guest

OK heres an answer from the Certified Pro 
IICRC Certified in WRT, ASD, AMRT, FSRT, OCT and more... here is your answer:

1) Don't touch it. 

Reason is not one that you may expect.....99.9% sure you don't have liability coverage for the possible lawsuit you could incure. 99.9% of the P&P Contractors do not have Commercial Pollution Liability. 99.9% of General Liability Policies exclude Mold Coverage unless they offer an endorsement (for big $$) to add additional coverages to your base policy. But you don't have this endorsement since to be eligible you have to be certified. 

2) Determining "cause of the mold" really is hard to know until the "finished product" is removed ie...drywall, panelling etc etc and by you telling the Service Company or Bank what the cause of mold is (by guessing) you subject yourself to payment of possible erroneous insurance claim costs. Example: you say that the reason is "no sump pump" but in truth this house was built in say 1980 and no mold formed till the bank acquired the home in 2010 so why was there never a mold problem before? Perhaps a shift in the ground caused a crack in the foundation thus a water leak? Problem is for all P&P Contractors is: until you live in the home and actually SEE what is causing the water intrusion you just don't know. 

3) I strongly suggest that all contractors get training in mold with the pursuit of certification. There are many steps that has to be taken to get the certification before the mold qualifications are awarded but this can and is a very rewarding experience. YOU also will find out that YOU/US/ME/Everyone is hanging themselves out for possible litigation if you listen and follow the directions from these Service Companies. They will HANG YOU and not care since YOU are the professional. 

Many States now require (and more every month) that if you treat any moldy area of 6sf or larger that you have to be certified. Due to this fact and the Service Companies wanting to collect/subrogate back to the insurance company for reimbursement they are required to use certified contractors. This has and is putting a heck of a strain on Service Companies since the "idiots in charge" don't know that they can't collect on Insurance without the proper certifications and thus the Contractors doing any mold work will be facing chargebacks over the next couple of years. We have seen this many times already. 

Example: we bid out a mold home of approx 1100sf that came in at approx $16,000 to remediate properly (air scrubbers/containment zones/HEPA vac etc) and we lost the bid to another P&P contractor who was awarded the bid at $4200 (spray with bleach..big no no and painted the main level with kilz..another no no---)....2 months later the mold bloomed into the entire 2800sf of the home and we got the call again (bid fee of $750 approved) to bid and try to determine the cause....Cause was improper treatment. Bid to fix the improper treatment was $31,000. Guess who is paying the $31,000? 

It is a very tricky field but with proper training and proper protocols can be very rewarding. Get training from the IICRC or the IAQ. Both researchable on the web. 

Good luck


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## Guest

Wow now see that helps everyone!! Thanks


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## mtmtnman

I used to get "treat with bleach" work order at least once a week. Turned every one of them down and mysteriously they where done next time i went to the property???? Got quite a few as REO's and had to get professionals to do remediation the right way but it seems Fannie/HUD are not going back on the banks for these screwups which is unfortunate because unless they get slapped around the service co's will keep playing their games. Only about 1 home in 50 where the bank servicer screwed up before the property went REO actually get kicked back to the bank. I am virtually out of the P&P side of things and stick with the REO stuff. Lot less headaches and bids get approved, not jacked with.........


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## Guest

OK thanks for the insight!!! Fremont, I sent you a private message but not sure if it went through. Where is the best place to become certified to complete mold remediation?? So many online courses I want to ensure its legit and recognized. Thanks!


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## Guest

ARpreservation said:


> OK thanks for the insight!!! Fremont, I sent you a private message but not sure if it went through. Where is the best place to become certified to complete mold remediation?? So many online courses I want to ensure its legit and recognized. Thanks!


First thing is check your states laws regarding mold certification. That will help. Second if you can avoid it don't do it online.


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> OK heres an answer from the Certified Pro
> IICRC Certified in WRT, ASD, AMRT, FSRT, OCT and more... here is your answer:
> 
> 1) Don't touch it.
> 
> Reason is not one that you may expect.....99.9% sure you don't have liability coverage for the possible lawsuit you could incure. 99.9% of the P&P Contractors do not have Commercial Pollution Liability. 99.9% of General Liability Policies exclude Mold Coverage unless they offer an endorsement (for big $$) to add additional coverages to your base policy. But you don't have this endorsement since to be eligible you have to be certified.
> 
> 2) Determining "cause of the mold" really is hard to know until the "finished product" is removed ie...drywall, panelling etc etc and by you telling the Service Company or Bank what the cause of mold is (by guessing) you subject yourself to payment of possible erroneous insurance claim costs. Example: you say that the reason is "no sump pump" but in truth this house was built in say 1980 and no mold formed till the bank acquired the home in 2010 so why was there never a mold problem before? Perhaps a shift in the ground caused a crack in the foundation thus a water leak? Problem is for all P&P Contractors is: until you live in the home and actually SEE what is causing the water intrusion you just don't know.
> 
> 3) I strongly suggest that all contractors get training in mold with the pursuit of certification. There are many steps that has to be taken to get the certification before the mold qualifications are awarded but this can and is a very rewarding experience. YOU also will find out that YOU/US/ME/Everyone is hanging themselves out for possible litigation if you listen and follow the directions from these Service Companies. They will HANG YOU and not care since YOU are the professional.
> 
> Many States now require (and more every month) that if you treat any moldy area of 6sf or larger that you have to be certified. Due to this fact and the Service Companies wanting to collect/subrogate back to the insurance company for reimbursement they are required to use certified contractors. This has and is putting a heck of a strain on Service Companies since the "idiots in charge" don't know that they can't collect on Insurance without the proper certifications and thus the Contractors doing any mold work will be facing chargebacks over the next couple of years. We have seen this many times already.
> 
> Example: we bid out a mold home of approx 1100sf that came in at approx $16,000 to remediate properly (air scrubbers/containment zones/HEPA vac etc) and we lost the bid to another P&P contractor who was awarded the bid at $4200 (spray with bleach..big no no and painted the main level with kilz..another no no---)....2 months later the mold bloomed into the entire 2800sf of the home and we got the call again (bid fee of $750 approved) to bid and try to determine the cause....Cause was improper treatment. Bid to fix the improper treatment was $31,000. Guess who is paying the $31,000?
> 
> It is a very tricky field but with proper training and proper protocols can be very rewarding. Get training from the IICRC or the IAQ. Both researchable on the web.
> 
> Good luck


Awesome explaination ! I love the fact that these morons think bleach kills mold and painting over it with kilz is the answer !!!


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## Guest

ARpreservation said:


> OK thanks for the insight!!! Fremont, I sent you a private message but not sure if it went through. Where is the best place to become certified to complete mold remediation?? So many online courses I want to ensure its legit and recognized. Thanks!


The very first thing you need to do is to check to see what your State's requirements are. 

Then as Fremont said, IICRC or IAQ are the only truely recognized certifications that I am aware of.


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## Guest

mbobbish734 said:


> First thing is check your states laws regarding mold certification. That will help. Second if you can avoid it don't do it online.


Sorry, didn't see your post:jester: I guess great minds do think alike:whistling


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## Guest

Another thing in general, when these pinheads try to push you to do something that you don't feel comfortable doing, ask them to provide you with a Hold Harmless letter indemnifying you and your company and agreeing to pay to defend you and your company angainst any and all legal actions that could come against you or your campany regarding this property. 

Tell them you will need it on their companies letterhead and signed by a manager.

Stops them in their tracks.

Usually the "Silence is Deafening"


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## mtmtnman

Just received in my inbox.........

September 21, 2011
Attn: Preservation Vendors
RE: Bidding mold for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac properties
**** ******** has recently received a large amount of price adjustments regarding cleaning and treating mold from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
We have been advised that the maximum allowable per square foot will be $1.00. If your bid exceeds this amount, you will be asked to lower your pricing. If you cannot lower your price, your bid will not be submitted and another contractor will be contacted to submit the required bid.
Please contact your state representative with any questions you may have.
Thank you,
**** ******** Management

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::no:


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## brm1109

Well I guess a lot of my bids will not be getting submitted.


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Just received in my inbox.........
> 
> September 21, 2011
> Attn: Preservation Vendors
> RE: Bidding mold for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac properties
> **** ******** has recently received a large amount of price adjustments regarding cleaning and treating mold from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> We have been advised that the maximum allowable per square foot will be $1.00. If your bid exceeds this amount, you will be asked to lower your pricing. If you cannot lower your price, your bid will not be submitted and another contractor will be contacted to submit the required bid.
> Please contact your state representative with any questions you may have.
> Thank you,
> **** ******** Management
> 
> :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::no:


Got this from the sisters too.


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## Guest

It seems very ridiculous to put in a bid to clean mold for $1/sqft in that it seems a waste of time.


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## Guest

72opp said:


> It seems very ridiculous to put in a bid to clean mold for $1/sqft in that it seems a waste of time.


As are most of the ridiculously priced services they request.


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## JFMURFY

AS mold never goes away from a house interior...it simples... in your quote add a disclaimers- indicate that you will abate the mold, and it is the Owners responiblity to maintain "temp and humdiity"


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## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> AS mold never goes away from a house interior...it simples... in your quote add a disclaimers- indicate that you will abate the mold, and it is the Owners responiblity to maintain "temp and humdiity"



That is not the point. Point is if you have mold on the surface of sheetrock, there is a 99% chance there is mold on the backside as well. Bleach and Kilz does nothing but these damn service companies keep pushing it!!


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## JFMURFY

I have made it a practice only to bid removal on my terms... I will not bleach any mold away as you can't do it...best practice is to remove it...bleach the studs and subconstruction...let that dry for a week or so... then apply the kilz afterwards... if the banks don't want it that way... then they can find someone who'll will do it that way an take ownership of it...


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## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> I have made it a practice only to bid removal on my terms... I will not bleach any mold away as you can't do it...best practice is to remove it...bleach the studs and subconstruction...let that dry for a week or so... then apply the kilz afterwards... if the banks don't want it that way... then they can find someone who'll will do it that way an take ownership of it...



This is not the IICRC recommended procedure and will not pass a 3rd party mold test I use only IICRC subcontractors as i am not mold certified, do not carry environmental liability insurance nor do i want to...........


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## JFMURFY

It was never indicated that the abatement procedure followed any criteria...simply a means of getting rid of the moldy drywall.


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## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> It was never indicated that the abatement procedure followed any criteria...simply a means of getting rid of the moldy drywall.



Just make sure your disclaimer says the mold is still present because it is........................


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## JFMURFY

You got that right


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## Guest

The bigger question that you need to get answered is are you required to be licensed for mold remediation by the municipality in which the dwelling is located?

CYA, because nobody else will. If it's a requirement and you're not licensed, NO disclaimer will hold water.

More and more localities are requiring some form of certification and licensing to perfom this type of work.


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## Guest

DreamWeaver said:


> The bigger question that you need to get answered is are you required to be licensed for mold remediation by the municipality in which the dwelling is located?
> 
> CYA, because nobody else will. If it's a requirement and you're not licensed, NO disclaimer will hold water.
> 
> More and more localities are requiring some form of certification and licensing to perfom this type of work.


Sorry, I didn't look and see that I already posted a similar answer earlier in the thread.

Well, at least I'm in agreement with myself. Happening less and less as I get older and older...:laughing:


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## JFMURFY

In Conn. mold is not regulated like asbestos or lead where you do need a license.


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