# GTJ Consulting



## Zuse

Anyone else get an invite to join them? Good or Bad, any info on them?

http://gtjonline.com/


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## Craigslist Hack

Let me know how this goes. I'm watching closely.


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## BRADSConst

You guys are joking right???? They got the FNMA contract from Cyprexx in Wisconsin. Not sure what they have in your states but FNMA and GTJ tells me everything I need to know.....


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## Zuse

Just got a invite, that was it. No price or volume in my area. Looks like i wont have much time to anything anyway, SL has just gone crazy on me and we cant keep up. :vs_sad:

I get these type of invites to come on board weekly, didn't pay it much attention. I thought i would put out there to see what others might have to say about them.

Yeah we don't do the whole bundle thing anyway, I relied back asking for a price list. They were obviously referred to me from another company, maybe they are getting the US bank account that left 5 sisters? 

The US bank account is still floating around out there from what I hear. 

They did ask if i could give them whole state coverage.:vs_worry:


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## Craigslist Hack

BRADSConst said:


> You guys are joking right???? They got the FNMA contract from Cyprexx in Wisconsin. Not sure what they have in your states but FNMA and GTJ tells me everything I need to know.....


I actually had never heard of these guys but all you have to say is FNMA and I'm out! I was just waiting for Zuse to go through all of the new hire packet to tell me if they are any good or not. Looks like ole Zuse was a little slow getting on this one. Not sure why he doesn't have anything going on.


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## bildough

I went through all the paperwork with them here in MI. One of the last pages was for you to sign that they could deduct full price on job if you were late or had callbacks of any kind. Needless to say I did not bother sending anything back.


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## BRADSConst

Craigslist Hack said:


> I actually had never heard of these guys but all you have to say is FNMA and I'm out! I was just waiting for Zuse to go through all of the new hire packet to tell me if they are any good or not. Looks like ole Zuse was a little slow getting on this one. Not sure why he doesn't have anything going on.


I gotta admit, I thought someone hacked Zuse' account when he was asking about GTJ. I was a little shocked myself.

Back to GTJ, they are located in Michigan. From my understanding, they got big for their britches and bid FNMA contract and got it from Cypricks. I envision this scenario playing out like Sentinel field services getting awarded a couple HUD areas. I don't see why this train wreck would be any different. Grab some popcorn and lets see how this plays out :vs_OMG:


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## Zuse

Oh you will know when someone hacks my account, just check the spelling.

If its correct.. its not me!


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## JDRM

Another thing to know, they got FNMA from AMS in MI, they have in house crews and cherry pick approvals, etc. Pricing is low also. 

SG has taken a few US Bank properties I used to service for the siblings, but we are still doing many.


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## JoeInPI

Found this in another forum:

https://www.sendspace.com/file/b6yvxs

gtj rates for Michigan if that helps


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## P&P Player

*GTJ---Bad Company!!!*

I worked as a sub for GTJ off and on for a year. I quit them three times because of non-payment. This company is having an extremely hard time paying and keeping contractors. I work with some really good clients but GTJ is the worst. I am always calling, emailing, texting to try and get payment. They have lied to me countless times. Brendan will send you an email and tell you a payment has been sent, but you won't see that check for a week or 2 and that is after calling more times to try and get a straight answer. This company is also a 60day company so when you may actually get paid it'll take 60 days. Consider yourselves warned. I don't know about you guys but I have to trust the company I work with.


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## P&P Player

*Says it all.*

https://foreclosurepedia.org/gtj-consulting-llc-fraud-or-insolvency-you-decide/#gsc.tab=0


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## In-ter-est-ing

I heard GTJ is a mess. Laying off their internal staff, salary reductions, overtime completely removed, closing down offices. Vendor nonpayment exceeding well over 90 days, I also heard Wisconsin liens were being placed on properties due to nonpayment. Any merit to this?


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## Get-er-done

I Would certainly not be surprised if this was happening. Been with them for quite awhile and now it's been over a month and no pay, as well as them being over 75 days behind. The low inventory is bad enough for us vendors, nowadays.. Does no one/ companies in this industry have any compassion anymore?


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## Craigslist Hack

In-ter-est-ing said:


> I heard GTJ is a mess. Laying off their internal staff, salary reductions, overtime completely removed, closing down offices. Vendor nonpayment exceeding well over 90 days, I also heard Wisconsin liens were being placed on properties due to nonpayment. Any merit to this?


Color me shocked! Next you are going to tell me PK Management is struggling as well!:wink


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## JoeInPI

Apparently there was a conference call last week and all of the vendors were told that they have laid off 25% of their staff, closed their GTJ West office, staff took pay cuts and they are now deducting 10% from rates as a discount. (as a start) They also declined to provide an audio recording of this conference call unlike all of their other calls, presumably so that it wouldn't get out.

The end is near, because they said "stick it out, it'll get better!" That's like a school saying "we are 100% behind Coach Xxxxxxxx" who then gets fired 5 days later. If you're a GTJ'er, get out now, while you can.


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## GTJ CONsulting

I was there. All true. Crap company fails again.


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## Get-er-done

Man, now I am worried if I'm even going to get paid.. Ugh, I don't need this he'll from an over glorified company that spends out of there budget!! Is anyone else continuing work after the last meet over the phone, or is everyone waiting for a check first?


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## ClearBoard

I do not see us moving forward with GTJ. I joined in on the conference call. I can respect a company or anyone for that matter owning up to mistakes and failures and trying to correct that, but GTJ covered up their mess with lie after lie after lie for years on end. That's what burned my a**. Then the whole time saying "we are a solid company, we don't lie". But they were lying. So how can you ever trust a company that has lied to so many people.? I don't like being lied to. If they would've just been upfront I would've respected them a heck of a lot more and I could've cut my losses then. But that was their motive, to cover up the fact that they are failing in order to keep contractors onboard. They advised that they havent been profitable since 2013. There's been years I haven't been profitable and the number 1 cause was overspending. I was at fault...I mean you have a company that is 75 days late in paying their contractors which are their #1 source of revenue, knowing damn well they already collected the check for the work you've done...makes me mildly nauseous. What if we did that to our employees? How long you think they would stay around? I pay mine weekly and they probably wouldn't be happy if I hadn't paid them for 3 months! Sad deal is they've got a good contract that a guy can make some decent money on if he works it right, but how long will FNMA stay knowing of the issues they are facing? Liens, contractors calling FNMA complaining, late orders because they are losing contractors, sub-par work because all the good contractors already cut out on them...Hey I don't wish bad on anyone because I know it happens but we all face consequences for our own actions, but I sure they heck don't want to reap the consequences of another companies actions. Time will tell I guess...


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## safeguard dropout

I think I heard a long time ago that companies like GTJ, Safecrap, NFR, ect, were required to put down a retainer fee with FNMA to finalize a contract. If my memory serves me correct, which it seldom does, I want to say it was around a million dollars per state?.....for situations like these when a company fails and vendors don't get paid. I have no idea how to get at that money or if it's even a possibility. Fortunately never found myself in that situation. Anyone?


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## charge back

safeguard dropout said:


> I think I heard a long time ago that companies like GTJ, Safecrap, NFR, ect, were required to put down a retainer fee with FNMA to finalize a contract. If my memory serves me correct, which it seldom does, I want to say it was around a million dollars per state?.....for situations like these when a company fails and vendors don't get paid. I have no idea how to get at that money or if it's even a possibility. Fortunately never found myself in that situation. Anyone?


retainer or bond? either way I would assume a properly filed lien will get the fund taped


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## GTJInsulting

ClearBoard said:


> I do not see us moving forward with GTJ. I joined in on the conference call. I can respect a company or anyone for that matter owning up to mistakes and failures and trying to correct that, but GTJ covered up their mess with lie after lie after lie for years on end. That's what burned my a**. Then the whole time saying "we are a solid company, we don't lie". But they were lying. So how can you ever trust a company that has lied to so many people.? I don't like being lied to. If they would've just been upfront I would've respected them a heck of a lot more and I could've cut my losses then. But that was their motive, to cover up the fact that they are failing in order to keep contractors onboard. They advised that they havent been profitable since 2013. There's been years I haven't been profitable and the number 1 cause was overspending. I was at fault...I mean you have a company that is 75 days late in paying their contractors which are their #1 source of revenue, knowing damn well they already collected the check for the work you've done...makes me mildly nauseous. What if we did that to our employees? How long you think they would stay around? I pay mine weekly and they probably wouldn't be happy if I hadn't paid them for 3 months! Sad deal is they've got a good contract that a guy can make some decent money on if he works it right, but how long will FNMA stay knowing of the issues they are facing? Liens, contractors calling FNMA complaining, late orders because they are losing contractors, sub-par work because all the good contractors already cut out on them...Hey I don't wish bad on anyone because I know it happens but we all face consequences for our own actions, but I sure they heck don't want to reap the consequences of another companies actions. Time will tell I guess...


I agree with you fully and I want to point out a few things in addition to this: 

A. If they were given the FNMA contract from AMS, how are they insolvent? FNMA would make them prove the opposite or wouldn't entrust them with the work for this reason. This would never be since 2013

B. Detroit Land Bank makes you include your financial records yet, they have gotten the Detroit Land Bank contract for 5 years.

C. A conference call is held to clear up some of the reasons why they are having issues paying us. No fault is placed on the accounting department they have no record of whether or not they have paid us because their "banking software and their accounting software do not communicate with one another" There are 175 of us in the call, how long would it take to log into your bank and see whether or not your checks have cleared? This is elementary **** and the software they use is QuickBooks, likely the same software the majority of us use. Why is this department still being run by one person? Is there **** there that can't be entrusted to anyone else?

Every single one of us should ask for a QB report.

The conference call : We are sorry we are bull****, we are PENALIZING YOU. What company would have the nerve to make us attend a conference call (to explain to us that they are doing the best they can to recover) ----->asking for patience and support while kicking us in the balls with a 10% "vendor discount" (WHY IS THIS A LINE ITEM INSTEAD OF INTERNAL PRICING CHANGES? is it tax fraud?)

D. Why did they cherry pick every single one of our initials ---- taking all of the easier jobs that made the harder tasks worth doing? Gutter extensions gone, debris minimized, lock changes, smoke detectors anything that was easy gone

I was told that recently that a vendor had taken somewhere in the range of 300 cubic yds of debris (Wisconsin). FNMA asked for the invoice from the vendor who did the work and Blake refused to give it to them. Are they lying about the work that has been submitted? Are they amplifying the amount of debris or services? I never understood why they would not give that invoice to FNMA. I myself have seen an instance where the debris that I reported back was doubled. They sent me a link to the wrong thing and I got to see what I reported compared to what they told the client. I saved this in case I ever need it. 

They have money, they have a big building worth plenty of money, I was there a few weeks ago to pick up my check. I think I saw boats parked in the back. They have 20 people with executive titles that are not necessary to do administrative work. We are not a team we are replaceable as they are trying desperately to hire new vendors so they don't have to pay us.

The person who commended this behavior in the conference call is an idiot.


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## GTJInsulting

FNMA probably won't talk to you, they didn't hire you. Liens or a collection agency probably best bet. Time to get our lawyers ready?


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## ClearBoard

And it's official...gtj has lost the fnma contract in indiana. As i stated before...it was only a matter of time. Now i don't wish to boast about anyone or any companies misfortunes because just as sure as i do that i know the same misfortune can come upon me. But i'm not sure where they came to the conclusion that they could keep putting off paying contractors. I mean it takes a lot of out-of-pocket for a company to do all these fnma properties. They have allowables that add up quick when you start buying materials for them. And when gtj was 60-90 days out on paying contractors by that time we are in deep with our own money. Not many guys want to take on fnma reo work or are even able to make it work @ net30 let alone net90! I myself didn't mind it and was profitable at it once we got a system in place. Gtj claimed that they lost indiana because of ongoing exterior maintenance issues...i call b.s. Maybe that's what they were told, but i believe it's the first dominoe to fall...which states next? Michigan? Wisconsin? Time will tell. One thing a regional or national never wants on their hands is a group of p***ed off contractors. Don't play with our money, it's how we feed our families!


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## Wannabe

I pray for you GTJ contractors. If you need a lawyer that sued HUD for me several years ago---AND GOT US FULLY PAID--just let me know.


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## disgusted

[QUOTE=And it's official...gtj has lost the fnma contract in indiana. 

Anyone know whom now or is going too have the fnma contract in Indiana ?


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## Pissedoffftj

They are frauds pure and simple. Biggest Ponzi scheme of a supposed family owned business I've ever seen. Yea family owned for them means use our money to feed their families steak and lobster while ours go hungry. What they have done to vendors and still have not take responsibility for their actions proves they have learned nothing. They didn't deserve the FNMA contract and if they think exterior services is what cost them to lose it their blind. Not paying your vendors cost you the contract, constant lies, hiring new vendors to continue your Ponzi scheme cost you the contract. I pray us vendors gets paid. Time to hire and attorney and file liens on everything. Crooks.


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## Craigslist Hack

disgusted said:


> And it's official...gtj has lost the fnma contract in indiana.
> Anyone know whom now or is going too have the fnma contract in Indiana ?[/quote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You sir may I have another? FNMA was so bad you just want more?
Click to expand...


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## ItsFalloutIRL

> asking for patience and support while kicking us in the balls with a 10% "vendor discount" (WHY IS THIS A LINE ITEM INSTEAD OF INTERNAL PRICING CHANGES? is it tax fraud?)


Hi all. Found this forum trying to find answers about the way the "honest, family-owned folks" over at GTJ are making us do these invoices. Does anyone know what they could be doing here? Instead of reducing their prices by 10%, they are making us invoice at regular price and then add a second line item for a negative value and having us call it a "Vendor Discount".

I am not tax attorney and it will be another 90 days before GTJ sends me a check so I can go pay one to ask what I am getting myself liable for, but maybe one of you know what kind of loop hole this is?


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## safeguard dropout

ItsFalloutIRL said:


> I am not tax attorney and it will be another 90 days before GTJ sends me a check so I can go pay one to ask what I am getting myself liable for, but maybe one of you know what kind of loop hole this is?


Some goofy invoicing method is the least of your worries. GTJ staying open for another 90 days would be tops on my list. Have you read this thread?


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## ItsFalloutIRL

safeguard dropout said:


> Some goofy invoicing method is the least of your worries. GTJ staying open for another 90 days would be tops on my list.


It isn't some goofy invoicing method. Knowing GTJ, it is most likely some kind of fraud on their end but I fear that it may result in some kind of tax burden on my end, hence the question. In any regard, I had to pick up my check in person this week because, of course, the new vendor payment schedule did not result in anything that was promised. Blake was there happily [golf] putting away, laughing and no surprise, there is another brand new boat in the back. The Johnson's aren't going anywhere in 90 days. They'll just keep finding ways to pass their projected loss of revenue on to us vendors and most recently, their employees, too.


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## Getridofgtj

Anyone been paid faster since their big meeting claiming to make adjustments and change how they do things I still have payments not paid since May 1. They have no idea what they are doing. Getting tired off all their promises and sob stories. Has anyone ever tried calling their clients to turn up the heat on them. There has to be someone who knows someone at oakland county or the detroit landbank who can get them to speed it up. I can't believe anyone who work for them unless like me have no other choice but to get strung along month after month. I fall for it every time.


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## Getridofgtj

Sorry I meant payments that were due net 30 on May 1st so really 90+


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## ItsFalloutIRL

Check in July covered work done March. We have been at 120 plus days all year and they've not made any progress catching up. The check is never issued on that payment schedule or when Brendan says it has been but you can show up and get it in person after he sends his email.

I am friends with a former vendor that put liens on properties and fnma forced them to get it settled quickly. Oct did not give a **** and let it sit. They have a few contacts down there that all went to high school together.


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## ClearBoard

It's been the same game ever since they set up the new "pay system". These people that run GTJ are LIARS through and through. You can't trust a syllable that comes out of their mouth. We are going to file liens on properites if we aren't paid this week for work done 60+ days ago. I've never held such contempt for a company in my career in P&P...If they would actually practice what they preach it wouldn't be so bad but they are not capable of it.


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## ClearBoard

Getridofgtj said:


> Anyone been paid faster since their big meeting claiming to make adjustments and change how they do things I still have payments not paid since May 1. They have no idea what they are doing. Getting tired off all their promises and sob stories. Has anyone ever tried calling their clients to turn up the heat on them. There has to be someone who knows someone at oakland county or the detroit landbank who can get them to speed it up. I can't believe anyone who work for thttp://www.preservationtalk.com/images/PreservationTalk/icons/post_face_cool.pnghem unless like me have no other choice but to get strung along month after month. I fall for it every time.


Yes, I called Fannie Mae personally. And I encourage everyone who isn't being paid to call whichever client it is you completed work for through them and advise them that they aren't paying their contractors for work you KNOW they have been paid for. Trust me GTJ will not like it! They have tried to create this IMAGE of theirselves that they are this AWESOME company, a charitable company (GTJ Foundation), and a family owned company. They want by any means to try and salvage that persona. You start contacting clients to expose them for what they truly are you'll get a response. It worked for me. Also, I had a broker for Fannie Mae advise me that if I did not get paid for work done on Fannie Mae properties to contact her and she would get with Fannie Mae and get us paid. I don't play their games. I see right through their BS. And if they want to play games with me, and my money I will make them pay for it.:vs_mad:


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## Getridofgtj

I will start doing that. I have called their clients many times and I know they don't like getting called. So keep doing it. It amazes me how good they are at not answering questions or being vague and just not replying to emails. I knew this would happen. Anyone who would take the time to sit down and break down their bull crap of a plan could see they have no chance of getting caught up. We are going to wake up one morning and they will no longer have fannie Mae. They will keep the other accounts because they pay like clockwork. But you better believe they are using our money to benefit themselves somehow. As far as them losing money, like they said in their big meeting,no way are they losing money. I should have got out as soon as they got in. The arrogance around that place is unbelievable on how they do things better than previous asset companies. Another thing anytime some bigger company claims to be family owned or family oriented run away because what that means is we have a lot of family members involved who do nothing but will get taken care of way before vendors get paid.


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## GTJFraudInvestigations

Did everybody receive a low balled bull**** payment notification from GTJ? This is literally turning from a civil law case to a criminal fraud case. We gotta do something about it NOW before we can't get ****. Please email me if you are interested in teaming up with an attorney. *[email protected]*


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## Getridofgtj

Yes please don't let this be a surprise anymore. This is the way things are going to be they might get back to net 30 for a month or 2 but it will always go back up and every vendor will be like they got it together and Brandon will send out an email saying we have worked so hard to get back to net 30 blah blah blah (kind of like the one they did last year in July or maybe the year before that). But in the end they will always get theirs first. I loved how they were able to trick everyone into thinking that we are all in this together and we need to be patient and all that garbage. It is not my fault that they don't know how to run their business not my fault they have been losing money and it is always fannie Mae fault no accountability on their part. If that contract was so bad and they have lost money all 3 years why in the heck do they keep bidding on the contracts in michigan and Wisconsin. Why do they stress everyone out when fannie Mae comes into to town when it is inspection time. And bend over backwards to please them. I have called attorneys and have always explained everything to them they think it is appalling but basically nothing would be worth it. Please if someone has actually went the Lein route can you please be more specific who did you call. Where did you file how much was it. Last post said there was a real estate agent who got results what was the number they called. Help us all out and give specifics so we can get our money.


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## FSMsuperhero

I've never heard of GTJ Consulting however, I've read through all of the posts on this thread and it appears this company operates similar to a lot of FNMA contractors.

FNMA's contract seems pretty self explanatory to vendors, however what you don't see is all the vs, back end issues these nationals and other companies like GTJ Consulting have to go through to get paid from FNMA. It's a disgusting and time consuming. FNMA will find reasons not to pay, and more often than not, FNMA pays at a net 30 and net 60, especially if it's for excessive initial services. 

In addition to FNMA'S delayed payment, FNMA would often reduce the amount billed or flat out reject the expense. Because of all these headaches, most nationals, etc. stopped paying their contractors weekly, bi weekly, etc. Because they themselves were not being paid. 

The FNMA is not a profitable contact, in most regions anyways. The billing to FNMA and payments to vendors will ALWAYS be an issue for anyone working the FNMA contract.


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## Bruce Wayne

*Inside Knowledge*

I worked for GTJ Consulting for many years. You guys don't know the half of it!


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## Bruce Wayne

Getridofgtj said:


> Yes please don't let this be a surprise anymore. This is the way things are going to be they might get back to net 30 for a month or 2 but it will always go back up and every vendor will be like they got it together and Brandon will send out an email saying we have worked so hard to get back to net 30 blah blah blah (kind of like the one they did last year in July or maybe the year before that). But in the end they will always get theirs first. I loved how they were able to trick everyone into thinking that we are all in this together and we need to be patient and all that garbage. It is not my fault that they don't know how to run their business not my fault they have been losing money and it is always fannie Mae fault no accountability on their part. If that contract was so bad and they have lost money all 3 years why in the heck do they keep bidding on the contracts in michigan and Wisconsin. Why do they stress everyone out when fannie Mae comes into to town when it is inspection time. And bend over backwards to please them. I have called attorneys and have always explained everything to them they think it is appalling but basically nothing would be worth it. Please if someone has actually went the Lein route can you please be more specific who did you call. Where did you file how much was it. Last post said there was a real estate agent who got results what was the number they called. Help us all out and give specifics so we can get our money.


If I were you I would not do anymore work for them, contact an attorney ASAP and Fannie Mae directly. Don't forget GTJ makes money on everything you do! If you read the fine print in the contract they basically can get away with anything! They are in financial difficulty now, They dissolved the office they had on the west side of the state of Michigan, fired a bunch of employees, selling most of there trucks and equipment. does not sound too good to me.


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## Bruce Wayne

I don't think GTJ is going to be too quick to write you guys a check. One of the owners has a million dollar house on the lake to pay for!


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## Bruce Wayne

Try and send an email to this contact at Fannie Mae. Joy Cianci is Fannie Mae’s Senior Vice President. She oversees loss mitigation activities related to Single-Family legacy assets and real-estate owned (REO) and manages the company’s corporate facilities and security team – including its workplace strategy initiatives. [email protected]


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## PropPresPro

Bruce Wayne said:


> I worked for GTJ Consulting for many years. You guys don't know the half of it!


I have never done any work for this GTJ and don't personally know anyone who has, but I bet I could sit down & tell you their story. These companies that are driven by greed all look the same, and really aren't that hard to spot if you look objectively.


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## ItsFalloutIRL

Brandon made the announcement that he stepped down today to go work with another company and has handed the reins over to sounds of choking on acid reflux from his little brother Blake. Another Johnson down; two to go.


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## Craigslist Hack

PropPresPro said:


> I have never done any work for this GTJ and don't personally know anyone who has, but I bet I could sit down & tell you their story. These companies that are driven by greed all look the same, and really aren't that hard to spot if you look objectively.


The timeline is basically the same on them all. AMS, GTJ, NFN, whatever....


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## TopPros

GTJ is terrible as a business partner on all levels. They treat vendsor as they are doing them a favor buy working with them. They don't listen to any kind of feedback on properties from the vendor. They will do ANYTHING the ****ty agents tell them to do, and pass it off to vendors, and tell the vendor tuff **** in so many words it has to be done, because the agents get what ever they want. 


Totally disappointing they got the contract from FM.


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## TopPros

Not to mention They're among the lowest paying company's out there. For example, They pay $22.50 per cubic yard for trash outs. With knit picking the hell out of the debris. $90.00 for Initial Sales Cleans, and they'll send you back 2-3 times to kiss ass to the agents. I advise nobody to work with them because you'll be like all the rest on this forum DISAPPOINTED and FRUSTRATED!


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## ProSec

I think GTJ, are nice people that unfortunately have to work with a group of realtors that don't give a crap about anybody but themselves. I have worked with GTJ for over 1 year now, yes they pay lower on somethings, but on others they are in line with the industry. Fanni Mae has decided for what ever reason to give the realtors a say in what's going on out on the street level. Anybody that has really worked in this industry knows that the agents are the reason it can be difficult. Some don't play as a team members. It can be difficult to swallow sometimes, Not all agents are bad tho, a lot of them are more then reasonable and understanding of the situation in hand.


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## abarr8466

Hey Wannabe,
Can you give the name of that lawyer who sued HUD. I am having the same issues with NFN .
I appreciate any help.


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## Wannabe

The fella retired early this year. In fact I just found that out yesterday while finishing up end-of-year banking business.


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## rlrolfe

Years ago I use to work for safeguard properties and all the other big companies doing both inspections & preservation until the housing crunch. Back then we were able to secure jobs working directly with the banks. Today, the industry created a "Middle Man" and unless you are directly connected they expect you to work practically for free. Safeguard today will chargeback and take away earned income and at some point they forget the people who made them what they are in terms of growth. For example: An initial inspection of any given property use to pay $30.00 no matter how close it was to any other jobs. If it was out of your territory in most cases you would be able to negotiate higher pay for that inspection. Today you are lucky if you can get $5-7.00 for that same inspection because some guy in the middle is connected and you are forced to do business with him. If you cannot find a bank to work for then my advise to you would be stay clear of P&P altogether because in the end you can't make S**t working for the middle man..


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