# New here need help, Safeguard grass vendor



## 87Pens (May 18, 2018)

Hi there as stared new to forums.

I am looking for some experience and insight.

I am a single crew grass vendor for Safeguard. This is my second season operational. I had one year prior working as a partner with a seasoned vendor who had been established for a while. We parted ways because I personally did not agree with his conduct but I digress.

So I got my own code and everything went pretty smooth last year. I maintained on average about 40 properties in 2 zones.

This year I have three zones and started out with 60 properties. Which I can easily handle myself. 

I feel I have had multiple complications internally with the company. Almost as if I am under a Microscope which is fine because I do my job well.

Just some background^

I have several examples to why I feel like I have been treated unfairly but the one that is my biggest concern I would like to address on here.

I recently in the last few weeks received two separate emails at separate times (1 reo orders 1 p&p) pertaining to a ‘compliance audit’. It states to be compliant you must have a 95% or greater. I have a deficiency according to them my PMP audit is 93% and my REO audit is 94%.

It states: (copy paste)

Pmp
“Good morning,
This email is to inform that we have completed an audit on your P&P Grass orders. Safeguard has a 95% 
compliance standard and your company is currently at 93%. 

Please be advised that at this time, a charge back will not be processed, rather this is a notice of what 
your potential charge back could be if your quality does not meet the required 95% at the time of the 
follow-up. You are currently completing 38 orders per month. At your current deficiency rate the 
charge back would be $34.84. You have 30 days from the date of this notice to address/correct 
all issues listed and come into full compliance.“

Reo
Good morning,
This email is to inform that we have completed an audit on your REO Grass orders. Safeguard has a 95% 
compliance standard and your company is currently at 94%. 

Please be advised that at this time, a charge back will not be processed, rather this is a notice of what 
your potential charge back could be if your quality does not meet the required 95% at the time of the 
follow-up. You are currently completing 43 orders per month. At your current deficiency rate the 
charge back would be $15.40. You have 30 days from the date of this notice to address/correct 
all issues listed and come into full compliance.

MY BIG QUESTION! What does this mean exactly??? They are pros of deceptive text imo. Or maybe i just suck at understanding.

I have a family to take care of. Does this insinuate $34.84 and $15.40 per property? 

If so how is that fair because I know everybody says they do a good job but I bust my butt and make sure everything is nice and clean. I know we all miss stuff and yeah they will point out if there are three leaves on a stairwell and mark it against you. I do my job trust me. 

I don’t feel and this is the paranoid part of me that no matter what I do I will be able to get my score up to their standards. Not because I haven’t corrected the issues but I feel it is by design.

I don’t feel and this is the paranoid part of me that no matter what I do I will be able to get my score to their standards. Not because I haven’t corrected the issues but I feel it is by design. 

Can anyone out there with past experience with these situations explain to me what I should expect. It would be greatly appreciated any accurate in sight. Thanks for your time!


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## ALong1002! (Mar 21, 2018)

Welcome to the wonderful world of P&P. I declined to work with safeguard because they tried me my first order. I was past due on an order so they said. I got a nasty email. We have tried multiple times to contact you if you don't answer you will be put on hold. UH the order is not late I just got it this morning. Anyways that's the ploys they use. I have a company the uses a score card but I have to have a 88% before you get penalized a percentage of your income for the quarter I get a bonus if I have more that 88%. Yours seems a bit harsh. But that's what these companies are doing to pay less and less. I still don't understand how they can say you didn't check in when you cannot sync the pics if you don't. Or you missed an ac pic. How is that if its in the stupid tab that says ac pic. You have to be careful of the bigger companies they are masters of finding stuff wrong with your work or reasons of delaying your pay or reasons to charge back. Get on the phone and clear this up if not your end up paying them to get work.


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## 87Pens (May 18, 2018)

Thanks much for the input. I dont see how they can backcharge $34.85 on a 93-94 percent compliant.

Can you i ask what you make of the chargeback? Meaning the $34.84 is that applied to how many properties i updated? Or is that a single fee? The verbage is terrible at defining


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## charge back (Dec 3, 2016)

87Pens said:


> Can anyone out there with past experience with these situations explain to me what I should expect. It would be greatly appreciated any accurate in sight. Thanks for your time!



Expect more of the same, they make the rules so they can decide which ones you need to be penalized for 

why not market to homeowners in your area, you can make more $, with less hassle


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

I might have some experience in this department. :smile

A couple things you should know...

Safeguard inspectors find themselves in a heap of hell if they fail to find something wrong with your work.

You are NOT under a microscope. You are a contractor with a code. They advertise for contractors on places like Craiglist and have "recruiters" make big promises that will never be kept. The vast majority of these recruiters have not walked a single day in property preservation. They are told what to promise and for all they know, they are telling the truth. Bottom line is, they actually have a backlog of contractors just waiting to get screwed by them. What I'm trying to say is, they don't care if you get pissed and walk, the next sucker is a phone cal away. Let me tell you what they did to me...

I signed with Safeguard when they got a big contract in my area. I had a signed contract for $50 per grass cut. I was the same as you. One man band and I did things right and made them look damn good. 1st year was pretty good, grossed well over 6 figures. The following spring they started picking on me. Why? they were short on contractors when I started. They needed me. By the following grass season, they had plenty of suckers lined up. 

They sent me an email saying lower your price to 35 or we reassign all your work. I told'em about this cool place they should go to where the sun doesn't shine. They fired me. I received about 100 work order cancellation emails in the next half an hour. End of story, right? Nope.

It took them 3 weeks to get the next sucker going in my place. When they saw his "before" yard pics they charged me up to $200 per yard because they were very long with "excessive neglect". I had just finished a round of cuts the DAY BEFORE I GOT FIRED!! You think the new guy saw a dime of the money Safe$hit stole from me?!! No way. Heck, he was prolly cuttin for $25-30. All said, I think they got about $2500 from me...and I feel lucky compared to dozens of guys who have been taken for tens and even hundreds of thousands.

Bottom line...piece of advice...

Do NOT bend over backwards for them, or you WILL bend over forward for them.


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## 87Pens (May 18, 2018)

Yeah that is some ‘experience’ and im sorry to hear you went through that. You know i figured get a grass code. Low risk just get my props/routes do a good honest job. Never cheated anyone. Thats my thing how do i slip out clean. I fear backlash like you claimed.


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## 87Pens (May 18, 2018)

Also by all means i miss something point it out. Im not perfect i could miss some edging. Sooo much to cover in some yards. My thing is the pics that fail to send through cause their servers down and it lowers your score. Or parts of the job you bid and they hold it against you for needing done in photos but you bid for extreme overgrowth...


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## charge back (Dec 3, 2016)

87Pens said:


> Yeah that is some ‘experience’ and im sorry to hear you went through that. You know i figured get a grass code. Low risk just get my props/routes do a good honest job. Never cheated anyone. Thats my thing how do i slip out clean. I fear backlash like you claimed.


don't let the fear keep you there, 

it is harder to sign up homeowners mid season, but not impossible, start picking up local customers and drop codes as you have enough replacement revenue from real customers


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## Safeguard is #1 (Dec 18, 2015)

Ok let me set your mind at ease.
First this email is in regards to a photo audit. So for example in general property condition tab they want for full sides of the house. If you’re not doing that you will lose points. So to clarify you can still submit the order with only one photo in this tab without triggering an error.

Also it is based on photo quality and job quality. For example if the after edging hard surfaces photos shows the driveway not edged this will also affect your score. You can’t stress out over these things. The inspectors will also note if there are no shrub, vine, or tree bids and these things are causing damage “touching” the home. That will also knock your score. You honestly should have like pdf attachments showing what they scored you on.

The charge backs listed would be the totals it is not per property but per audit. So even if you continued to fail this audit you would not be out of business. To set your mind at further ease they audited me and I got like an 88% didn’t do anything different and the follow up audit I scored a 98%. I guess those death threats I sent the inspectors worked... 

I’ll tell you what all the new photo requirements they just added without even a memo really rubbed me the wrong way. I think a lot of people will be falling off and failing to provide the ridiculous amount of new photos. I mean it was a lot before but I went from 28 average photos for a recut to almost 50. The updates became a much more drawn out bore.

Most important thing to remember is safeguard isn’t your friend they’ll cut your throat and bleed you dry. Make as much money off them as you can but don’t let them scare you. You’re not their employee and they aren’t holding a gun to your head. Hope this helps.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

Safeguard is #1 said:


> Ok let me set your mind at ease.
> First this email is in regards to a photo audit. So for example in general property condition tab they want for full sides of the house. If you’re not doing that you will lose points. So to clarify you can still submit the order with only one photo in this tab without triggering an error.
> 
> Also it is based on photo quality and job quality. For example if the after edging hard surfaces photos shows the driveway not edged this will also affect your score. You can’t stress out over these things. The inspectors will also note if there are no shrub, vine, or tree bids and these things are causing damage “touching” the home. That will also knock your score. You honestly should have like pdf attachments showing what they scored you on.
> ...


Dude! 50 photos for a grass cut?! What do you think they are doing with 50 grass cut pics?! I'll tell you...
They are billing the client for inspection services you just did for free!!

My mind is not at ease!!

By the way, welcome to the forum. We love to hear from Safeguard guys around here. :smile


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## Safeguard is #1 (Dec 18, 2015)

Oh I know. They are telling the banks “oh if you sign with us we provide free exterior inspections on all recuts!!”. Or as you suggested they could be double billing. Trust me I know what’s going on. I fortunately have been able to maintain my grass price to where I am happy but I am not blind to the shady practices of safeguard. I have been doing grass only with them for over 10 years as supplemental income and can say that they can’t get much worse then they are now. They even encourage contractors to lower their prices to get more work now. They send out lists of zip codes and the lowest price so you can undercut the other guys. Amazing what people will work for.


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## WestCOREO (Dec 3, 2014)

Former longtime Safeguard vendor here. We finally had to walk away from working with Safeguard due to multiple reasons:

1.) They have made it basically impossible to dispute a cut invoice.

2.) Their forever increasing photo requirements are out of control. 

3.) The vendor account managers rarely respond, and when they do, they have no power to help you or they don't answer your question.

4.) They are starting to require multiple videos to be uploaded on every visit.

5.) They recently sent out a memo that they are going to begin requiring multiple panoramic photos on every visit.

6.) They have a completely unnecessary and redundant checklist to fill out on every visit.

7.) Their proprietary mobile and desktop software constantly freezes or doesn't it work correctly, even with top of the line phones and computers. 

8.) They constantly cut invoices without notifying you. You always have to keep an eagle eye on checks so you can dispute these phantom cuts within their "time frame for disputes".

9.) If you are missing one photo, they won't pay you for the entire job and you can't dispute it.

10.) The price list hasn't increased at all in close to 10 years. Many items pricing have been reduced.

11.) Every few weeks, they roll out a new policy or photo requirement that only increases the administrative cost of doing the job.

We made a pretty good living working with them and other preservation companies for quite a few years. It just wasn't realistic for us to do business with them anymore. Good luck, if you think you are up for the punishment.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

WestCOREO said:


> Former longtime Safeguard vendor here. We finally had to walk away from working with Safeguard due to multiple reasons:
> 
> 1.) They have made it basically impossible to dispute a cut invoice.
> 
> ...


Whoa! Number #4! We heard a while back this was coming. Video required??!! On what? Details please. :smile


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## WestCOREO (Dec 3, 2014)

safeguard dropout said:


> Whoa! Number #4! We heard a while back this was coming. Video required??!! On what? Details please. :smile



From Safeguard:

The following questions require video labels in Photo Direct, which were made mandatory on March 19:

-- Is there a basement at the property?
-- Are there visible breaks in the plumbing system?
-- Is there an interior attic/decking?
-- Did pressure check pass?
-- Are any floors structurally weak or spongy on departure?
Please note that videos will be required for completion of a downloaded order on the Photo Direct application. Users will need to supply all videos triggered by script responses to move the order over to the transmit queue. 

The video labels will be available within the script similar to required photo labels. This will make supplying videos very easy and intuitive to help save you time while out at the property! 

After transmission, videos will flow directly into Vendor Web under the appropriate label and will display a play icon to quickly identify the difference between a photo label and a video label.


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## Maryjanebehave (Oct 7, 2017)

Hi there! Welcome! I have started replacing much of my lawn care with locals by going directly to the rental property management companies and realty companies 'round these parts, and it has been great. I do half the mows for twice the money, and that is peachy with me.
These guys here have had some great advice for me, and I would listen closely were I in your shoes.
Best and warmest regards!
MJ


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## Picture Pusher (Oct 13, 2017)

As someone who sits on the computer side of the Safeguard world (I'm an updater), your email is probably referring to lack of photos. If you only have grass cut orders then you have it easy for now. If you are updating your own orders ensure you take each and every required photo for the order. The grass cut work completed has recently changed and requires a couple more extra than previously.
Grass cuts need very few photos for Gen prop conditions, but there are still a couple required.
It's ridiculous your compliance must be so high. Unsure if the charge back is per property, doubt it though if your doing recuts at $50 plus the discount... That would mean you owe 😕
Good luck!


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## shsr (Jan 30, 2013)

Hey 87-

My company had S. G. as a client for 10 years. My advice to you is to review the hundreds of ways that they have screwed, and in many cases destroyed businesses in the archives of this forum. Then, tell them you have a family emergency and need to go on hold for 30 days. Get whatever they owe you if possible during that 30 day period, then, terminate your agreement with them. It will be the best decision you ever make.

It's not the fact that they will royally screw you at some point -- which is bad. It is the headaches that you will endure until they do (which they will), not the least of which is dealing with their ridiculous photo and upload requirements and incompetent and disingenuous vendor managers or whatever they call them this week.


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## Topgun (May 26, 2018)

Dude, coming from someone who has worked for Safeguard for over 10 years, I will
be the first one to tell you to get away from them as fast as possible. I know
saying that, after being with this company for 10 years, sounds silly; but, on
the otherhand, i'm trying to keep you from getting stuck in a rut. There is only
2 things Safeguard is good at. Volume and weekly paychecks. Safeguard is easily
the worse company in the country to work for. One of the reasons you stated is
one of the many. Safeguard has an entire team devoted to chargebacks. If they
paid their vendors more, chargebacks would not be as big a necessity. But they
are the lowest paying firm in the entire field. This is the reason why they get
the volume. You would be better off working for 10 different companies, each
giving you a few properties a piece, than you would getting volume from Safeguard.
Get away from them now or you will look back 5 years from now and wish you had.
Now i'm in a different part of the business, so unfortunately for me, there is
no one else out there with the volume I need to make the income I need. All of
our situations are different. Hopefully, you don't need to make 6 figures a year
to survive. I could go on forever, but i'll leave this in agreement with one of
the other posters--lawn maintenance is an easy business to get. There are many
different ways to get the work. From what I know Safeguard pays for lawn
maintenance, and you are only doing 40 properties a month, you don't need but
around 15 people in your neighborhood to pay you $75 to equal that. Put some
flyers out in your neighborhood or message boards, just leave a foot print.
Good luck in your endeavor! Safeguard will not get better from this point,
only get worse. If you want to stay in this business, here is an up-to-date
list of all the field service companies in the country...
Forum ? Field Inspection Companies ? Vendors.Press


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## pres88 (Aug 3, 2017)

Hello,

I am very experienced in dealing with potential backcharges with SG. In this case you are not being backcharged anything at the moment, but if you keep on getting low scores on audits then yes they can backcharge you a % of the total work you've done based on small samplings of orders. I cannot promise you that your outcome will be the same as mine, but I can clear a few things up.

The email sent to you should have an attachment or two detailing the issues they found. This audit preformed sounds like a 'SQA' audit as in one done remotely looking at photos (they have been offshoring their actual photo QC from what i can tell so it can be sloppy at times). I would review what photos you submitted and try and understand what error you made (find an error even if there wasn't one). Call/email them and be unconfrontational and ask questions. If they were incorrect you can point it out, but pose it as a question and be nice. I've noticed that they will hesitate to backcharge a vendor who demonstrates (s)he understands the problem and is willing to try and improve.

Hope that helps.


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

pres88 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am very experienced in dealing with potential backcharges with SG. In this case you are not being backcharged anything at the moment, but if you keep on getting low scores on audits then yes they can backcharge you a % of the total work you've done based on small samplings of orders. I cannot promise you that your outcome will be the same as mine, but I can clear a few things up.
> 
> ...



Wow. I like the "fake a family emergency" option way better than this!


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## shsr (Jan 30, 2013)

The best advice is RUN Forest RUN.

This is the tough part -- You probably cannot just start a residential lawn maintenance business with a couple of 21" decks (I guess it depends where you are located). The successful companies I know run a 48, 36, trimmer and blower. 4 man crew, about 5 minutes a cut. Less than 2 minutes between properties. In CO, they charge <30 per cut for 1/3 acre or less. You need a good book to make it work and if you sometimes forget to edge, mowing may not be the best business for your company.

To the extent that you are a 1-2 man crew, irrigation may be a better bet. It's hard work but it pays well and at least where I'm at, there is a shortage of qualified pros. Not hard to learn either IMHO.


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## ScrewGuard (Sep 3, 2018)

Safeguard is horrible and they are thieves. Sylvester Johnson is the leader of the pack and will be held accountable.


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## ScrewGuard (Sep 3, 2018)

*Runnnnnnn*

Runaway from ScrewGuard. 
Matthew Pilasky & Sylvester Johnson are to blame , they are the leaders and approve all back charges and deny all disputes. They just hire VAMS so they do not get their mouths dirty. They are all dirt bags.


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## emlinfitz (Feb 22, 2017)

Funny you mentioned it was an inspection.
I have been sent on some wild goose chases.
Rude ass messages: Go back and secure front door we had a report front door is not secured.
I'm thinking someone broke in!! Got there and front door is perfect with lock box all doors secured??
However, I had to take pictures of every room including appliances and missing ones too. confirm electric is on, breaker is on for sump pump, sump pump is working and many more.
You think it was an inspection for FREE: LOL


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## Bear (Nov 13, 2018)

*Watch Out Charge Back.*

*
*
*
*Can anyone out there with past experience with these situations explain to me what I should expect. It would be greatly appreciated any accurate in sight. Thanks for your time!*​
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You're expected to know massive amounts of information in short order, otherwise, you're held liable - and your posting is proof! 

Your (*CODE*) is also Vendor ID (*equals*) = Your profile. It's a digital number specific to YOU! 

Your Code organizes and and tracks "Your file - You" among 500 other profiles just like yours. 

Your file has every property you visited, every work order number and all DUE DATES too!

Assume (without proof) all of the work orders you have completed, submitted and invoiced under this (CODE) total $100.00

*based on the (copy paste) emails...
*
*PMP*
It seems you have 30 days to correct whatever is incomplete according to them, and if you do not, the amount is to be
subtracted from your overall account. 

Example:

$100 - $34.84 = $65.16 paid! 
$100 earned (minus charge-back) $34.84 = *$65.16 total* - *REO *too. 

Pretty Stiff after taking 25% off the top - Think your "flat fee"- think again. 

*This problem is microscopic* compared to what you're really faced with which is not
having the specific information you need but you're correct, *Scorecards are not always 
accurate and you are held liable (your expense). *

Do your clients change the due date the same time you let them know when you can complete the work? 

You can only do so much in a day- it seems logical to let your clients know when you can and will
complete the work order.

Your clients responsible to manage their workflow and threatening emails as such only prove 
nationals (and regionals) do not spend resources where they need to be.

It's poor management​


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