# Issues with FAS QC-



## Guest (Mar 29, 2012)

Hi !!! I am new to posting on this forum, but have followed posts for quite a while. I run a company out of CA, we are FAS vendors and we recently completed a trash out. Initially I bid the job around 225cyds and proceeded. Well, like 2 days into the job I realize that we were well over that due to the weight. So I have the work order updated at 400 cyds and explain that I didn't have it precounted because I had no clue the weights. Now QC comes back at 208 cyds and on the second request 225. We removed 49,000 pounds of debris and provided dump receipts. Does anyone have any clue what aspects I should use to fight this QC? It took me 4 days in the pouring down rain to turn this property around which may turn into a waste of time  thanks soooo much!


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

If you bid it then it is what it is. Calculating debris is like measuring drywall; do it twice and cut it once. I doubt your going to get any further with them on your totals.


----------



## Guest (Mar 29, 2012)

E&C said:


> Hi !!! I am new to posting on this forum, but have followed posts for quite a while. I run a company out of CA, we are FAS vendors and we recently completed a trash out. Initially I bid the job around 225cyds and proceeded. Well, like 2 days into the job I realize that we were well over that due to the weight. So I have the work order updated at 400 cyds and explain that I didn't have it precounted because I had no clue the weights. Now QC comes back at 208 cyds and on the second request 225. We removed 49,000 pounds of debris and provided dump receipts. Does anyone have any clue what aspects I should use to fight this QC? It took me 4 days in the pouring down rain to turn this property around which may turn into a waste of time  thanks soooo much!



Please note that my response is not an attack - it's candid reality:

1) *"I didn't have it precounted because I had no clue the weights."* Anyone who has worked in this industry for any length of time has learned expensive lessons on-the-fly - consider this experience the cost of your education

2) *"Initially I bid the job around 225cyds and proceeded."* You bid 225 cubic yards and they approved it; in theory, they may have chosen your bid over another vendor who bid higher; you don't get "re-do's" like when you were a kid

3) *"It took me 4 days in the pouring down rain to turn this property around which may turn into a waste of time"* - You may have incorrectly assumed that empathy is part of their business model - it is not - the pouring down rain and your time are completely irrelevant


A rep from a national company once told me something after I complained about "fairness" and it stuck with me: she said something to the effect "this is how it is, if you don't like it then you need to make a 'business decision.'" I learned that a "business decision" is a decision that A) excludes emotion, B) may be uncomfortable, and C) can be the most liberating type of decision.

E&C, you may not have control over what happened in the past but you do have control over what happens next. Take the emotion out of this experience (I know, that can be really hard), figure out where the breakdown was, and put the policies and procedures in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.


----------



## Guest (Mar 29, 2012)

That just seemed quite condescending. Maybe I need to be specific the company sends a job and due date. Visually there is 225 cyds. Weight is 49,000 lbs. I was just seeing if anyone had an experience having almost 25 tons approved based on weight or dump receipts. I never "bid" the job I just input my count at completion. Trust me I have been doing this for 6 years, and have had several large losses which is why I provide All dump weights on my large jobs. Thanks for your input.


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Approval for weight based loads is almost non existent anymore. Companies like FAS and Safeguard, etc will tell you they pay the same rate for a trailer load of feathers as they do a trailer load of bricks. The number and quality of your photos are the strongest tool you have to confirm 400 cyds over 225.


----------



## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

MFSOracle said:


> Please note that my response is not an attack - it's candid reality:
> 
> 1) "I didn't have it precounted because I had no clue the weights." Anyone who has worked in this industry for any length of time has learned expensive lessons on-the-fly - consider this experience the cost of your education
> 
> ...


The best advice I've heard in awhile. We have also learned a lot of tough lessons in the early days.


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Approval for weight based loads is almost non existent anymore. Companies like FAS and Safeguard, etc will tell you they pay the same rate for a trailer load of feathers as they do a trailer load of bricks. The number and quality of your photos are the strongest tool you have to confirm 400 cyds over 225.







Almost.



REO clean ups are a lot tougher because they'll give you verbal approval and then in the QC process take it all away.

BUT..... I had one REO last year that had a dump truck load of blocks on it. They wanted to go by the cube and I told them no way. We were getting a dump truck with a loader to haul them off. The price is $800. They kept going on and on about it, I kept telling them that the price is $800. Not $799 or less.

Took them about two weeks, I'm assuming trying to find some one else, and they approved the bid for $800. 

Some times you have to hold your ground with them. Working in remote areas where they don't have access to 10 different contractors to bid shop can work to your advantage.


----------



## Guest (Mar 29, 2012)

What does E&C stand for?


----------



## Guest (Mar 29, 2012)

E&C said:


> Hi !!! I am new to posting on this forum, but have followed posts for quite a while. I run a company out of CA, we are FAS vendors and we recently completed a trash out. Initially I bid the job around 225cyds and proceeded. Well, like 2 days into the job I realize that we were well over that due to the weight. So I have the work order updated at 400 cyds and explain that I didn't have it precounted because I had no clue the weights. Now QC comes back at 208 cyds and on the second request 225. We removed 49,000 pounds of debris and provided dump receipts. Does anyone have any clue what aspects I should use to fight this QC? It took me 4 days in the pouring down rain to turn this property around which may turn into a waste of time  thanks soooo much!



I do feel your pain as do most people in here,but with FAS always bid way higher because they will cut you down all the time.

On my bids when it comes to concrete,wood,shingles and anything heavy I always charge extra for weight,like somebody said if they don't like your bid they don't have to take it.


----------



## Guest (Mar 29, 2012)

Do the math


----------



## Guest (Mar 30, 2012)

MKM Landscaping said:


> I do feel your pain as do most people in here,but with FAS always bid way higher because they will cut you down all the time.
> 
> On my bids when it comes to concrete,wood,shingles and anything heavy I always charge extra for weight,like somebody said if they don't like your bid they don't have to take it.


I do the same with FAS ,if it 225cyd I tell them 325cyd and hope they donot cut it below 225cyd. thing is QC dept. is a pain to deal with


----------



## Guest (Mar 30, 2012)

It is for my children's names. I figure they are the main reason I need to succeed in life, soo what better option is there


----------



## Guest (Mar 31, 2012)

E&C I am not sure what you trashed out but sounds large enough. In all our travels one thing that always gets scrutinized is debris and CYD counts. Here in CT debris disposal is not fun, never mind hazards. One time estimating a job when doing the multiplication for some reason I used 25 instead of 50 per cube which was the going rate in CT @ the time-needless to say I did not get a do-over and the company was forced to eat it.

Luckily the boss is an old friend, and it is a mistake that will never happen again.


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

To me, 49,000 lbs sounds pretty well on par with 225 CYD of debris. We average about 1 ton for our 10 CYD trailer. So 225 CYD should average 45,000 lbs using that math. I am also a little confused by your original post. You said "due to weight, we knew we were over 225 CYD". How do you know you are over on volume because of the weight? So from your original post I can't tell if there actually was 400 CYD, or just 225 CYD that was heavy so you were trying to say it was 400 CYD?

Edit: Reading a post of yours a few down, you are saying that there visually is 225 CYD of debris, but in your original post you are complaining that QC is only counting 225 CYD and you are upset about it? It sounds like they are counting the correct amount of CYD, so that's a win in my book with their QC. If you wanted extra $$ for weight, increasing the count by 175 CYD was the incorrect way to go about it.


----------



## CSREO (Jun 16, 2012)

What part of CA are you in? If you are charging $40 cy, I will gladly come do it.


----------



## Guest (Apr 3, 2012)

$55 in CT


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

newenglandprop said:


> $55 in CT


you getting that from FAS($55 CYD)


----------



## david (Apr 11, 2012)

fas does not pay 55 per cu yd trust me


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

d+jhomeservices said:


> fas does not pay 55 per cu yd trust me


I have never been able to get more that $18 CYD from FAS or Cyprexx.Both were paying this tens years ago.


----------



## david (Apr 11, 2012)

i got more then that up to 19 yds but after that then deductions it averaged about 18 cu yd


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

d+jhomeservices said:


> i got more then that up to 19 yds but after that then deductions it averaged about 18 cu yd


does FAS charge the bank from regs. $50 a CYD and then pay us $18?


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> you getting that from FAS($55 CYD)


no we worked with them and accepted 25% off that, up until there started to be an auto discount taken on anything over 25CYD.

$55 is HUD schedule. My advise to anyone is look up your HUD P&P cost schedule for your state. Just google 

HUD P&P Cost Schedule for (state)


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> does FAS charge the bank from regs. $50 a CYD and then pay us $18?


It is my understanding that all Nationals bill HUD prices for the respective state which is different all over depending on location.


----------



## APlusPPGroup (Apr 14, 2012)

E&C said:


> It took me 4 days in the pouring down rain to turn this property around which may turn into a waste of time  thanks soooo much!


There's part of your problem with your loads to the dump. 

Working 4 days in pouring rain is going to double or triple your weight, though, not your volume. 

And anything that expands when soaked in water is going to increase the size of the items, as well, making you think it's more than it is.

Linda


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

Yes, we only get $18 a cyd now, over 30cyd thanks to the flat fee up til the base price they paid $28 under 20 then the discount came into play. Good News thoug we got it approved at 382 cyds although I took a $700 cut For my landscape Which they originally approved I am still happy!! Too many people are letting these asset companies in a cubicle with a h.s diploma virtually degrade the value of the work we are doing because they know we need them. Thank you all for your input!! Good luck to everyone!!


----------



## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

newenglandprop said:


> no we worked with them and accepted 25% off that, up until there started to be an auto discount taken on anything over 25CYD.
> 
> $55 is HUD schedule. My advise to anyone is look up your HUD P&P cost schedule for your state. Just google
> 
> HUD P&P Cost Schedule for (state)


Hi NewEnglandProp... Is there a new ML out... last I saw was the Mortgagee Letter 2010-18 that put debris @ $50/cy not $55


----------



## APlusPPGroup (Apr 14, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> Hi NewEnglandProp... Is there a new ML out... last I saw was the Mortgagee Letter 2010-18 that put debris @ $50/cy not $55


HUD went to "across the board" rates last year or the year before. 

Attached is the current HUD allowables rate sheet.

Linda


----------



## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

a1propertyclean said:


> HUD went to "across the board" rates last year or the year before.
> 
> Attached is the current HUD allowables rate sheet.
> 
> Linda


That's the one I have... Thanks Linda.


----------



## APlusPPGroup (Apr 14, 2012)

I figured you probably already had it but I posted it anyway for those who don't. 

Linda


----------



## Guest (Apr 6, 2012)

This is the one HUD has us using in CT, as far as I know this is current as its the one we were told to refer to-its a little diff than the other.

slight difference the one we use, but we never get full HUD unless we work direct with brokers.


----------

