# 5 Bros: Bid approved for Reduced Amount! (Yea! Hoo Ray!)



## Natasha (Aug 15, 2013)

I can laugh now, but this happened to us this past year. I saw a little issue when I drove up to a nicer home. It was a HUD home with a brick front, lots of room, nice basement, etc. But it had a column of bricks falling down. Literally in the process of falling over... Literally hanging by a wire... So I tried to bid to do the repairs. I called around some brick masons... found some who admitted that $1500 would be justifiable even for such a small job, and so I bid it well north of $2k.

I got it approved! Yeah for me. Even found a guy who would do it pretty cheap around this time. But when I had looked around to categorize this type of damage, I had selected "siding" repair (nothing else fit into their stupid computer system). Well, there must be some kind of square foot price guidelines for "siding"... and the adjusted price was... less than 10% of what I bid. Yea!! So I told them no, no way, you better try again, no.

As far as I know, some really clueless sub may have done it for peanuts. All I know, is not me. While I can believe someone else got the bid and they were all up in arms about mine, there is no way a professional mason did it for the price they approved it for. I hope it stays fixed.... I hope he doesn't get a call back no charge order.

By the way, when I tell them that they can't lower my bids, they claim that it is their client (HUD, FHA, etc) that does it. Yeah, ok.


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## MNP&P (Nov 26, 2012)

Sounds like something a structural engineer should look at. Be careful with damages like this and how you report them to your clients. Something that appears as a little cosmetic issue could be indication of major structural/foundation issues. I know of one contractor who is out many thousands for overlooking "structural damages" on an initial visit.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

Natasha said:


> I can laugh now, but this happened to us this past year. I saw a little issue when I drove up to a nicer home. It was a HUD home with a brick front, lots of room, nice basement, etc. But it had a column of bricks falling down. Literally in the process of falling over... Literally hanging by a wire... So I tried to bid to do the repairs. I called around some brick masons... found some who admitted that $1500 would be justifiable even for such a small job, and so I bid it well north of $2k.
> 
> I got it approved! Yeah for me. Even found a guy who would do it pretty cheap around this time. But when I had looked around to categorize this type of damage, I had selected "siding" repair (nothing else fit into their stupid computer system). Well, there must be some kind of square foot price guidelines for "siding"... and the adjusted price was... less than 10% of what I bid. Yea!! So I told them no, no way, you better try again, no.
> 
> ...


I said it once again that HUD can lower pricing, they have data base of the bids related to the property with information on what was provided in each bid, name of the person who submitted and status of the bid. They will more likely deny bid if it's higher than their pricing (which makes no sense whats so ever). this is why the bid should be descriptive. The procedure after HUD adjustment is for regional go to bank and have bank cover the difference or ask for approval if HUD denies or send appeal to HUD whichever works the best. We had been through this many times and it's a joke. Regionals don't want to do it and they will try to push it on you especially if it's between city and HUD where you have to be middle man between the two and tell each party what the other party thinks should be the right way. We had some bids partially denied by HUD that were related to violations and we had been asked to have city sign off on the repairs. We were like WHAT? :bangin:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Have you ever received an actual HUD letterhead document stating this?


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Have you ever received an actual HUD letterhead document stating this?


I have only on violations doing major repairs. Had one doing a Siding asbestos abatement because Hud said siding can't contain asbestos.

I have had maybe 20 but they always send it before the bid has been approved. The regional s cutting your bid after it's approved is them looking for ways to increase profits


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

http://foreclosurepedia.org/foreclosurepedia-podcast-180-discuss-five-brothers-sealed-complants/


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> I have only on violations doing major repairs. Had one doing a Siding asbestos abatement because Hud said siding can't contain asbestos.
> 
> I have had maybe 20 but they always send it before the bid has been approved. The regional s cutting your bid after it's approved is them looking for ways to increase profits


 No, HUD didn't cut the bid. Your client adjusted/negotiated with HUD and they changed your bid. Your client pulled out "HUD adjusted the bid" crap and sent it back.

I do agree with "cut your bid" is another way they use to increase profits.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

JDRM said:


> http://foreclosurepedia.org/foreclosurepedia-podcast-180-discuss-five-brothers-sealed-complants/


I have first hand knowledge of some of those practices. One example I'm sure others here have experienced is being asked by 5B for a second "true" bid on a project you submitted the first bid on. Trying to manipulate bids and masking them under their own letterhead was at the very least unethical.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I asked if anyone had ever received a letter from HUD with verbage dictating a bid adjustment, knowing that no one has, because it has never happened as the Nationals describe it.


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

About a year ago I bid approx 55 cyd on a job. They came back and said "hud" cut it to 35, I told them to let "huds" people do it then.... A week later "hud" accepted my initial bid. :whistling2:


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

That's not what my letter said. I will dig thru my past emails and see if I can find them. It was on hud letterhead asking for additional information on violations. It had nothing on it about reducing bids it was more of an 
Inquiry looking for about measurements and additional documents to support. I got them all the time doing violations.



BRADSConst said:


> No, HUD didn't cut the bid. Your client adjusted/negotiated with HUD and they changed your bid. Your client pulled out "HUD adjusted the bid" crap and sent it back.
> 
> I do agree with "cut your bid" is another way they use to increase profits.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

GTX63 said:


> I asked if anyone had ever received a letter from HUD with verbage dictating a bid adjustment, knowing that no one has, because it has never happened as the Nationals describe it.


We received them multiple times


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

JDRM said:


> http://foreclosurepedia.org/foreclosurepedia-podcast-180-discuss-five-brothers-sealed-complants/



JDRM, Unfortunately the 5 Bros sheeple don't want to know the truth......


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## Natasha (Aug 15, 2013)

JDRM said:


> About a year ago I bid approx 55 cyd on a job. They came back and said "hud" cut it to 35, I told them to let "huds" people do it then.... A week later "hud" accepted my initial bid. :whistling2:


I had "HUD" cut one due to my pictures not showing all of the debris for a cleanout bid I did when I was more involved with a work order. Well, months later, I had a trashout "approved for a lower amount" and proceeded to appeal and take a few hundred more pictures. 

About two weeks later, my second bid was approved for 2 1/2 times what they approved originally, we completed a big trashout (200+ cyd) and the check from the 5 amigos came in basically record time. :thumbsup:

Now I took 500 pictures and labeled them all... but I didn't hear one peep out of the approvals (kickback) department because the place was immaculate. *Take gooder pictures if this amount of money is riding on it. *That's what I tell my people.


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

newreo said:


> We received them multiple times


Interesting. In all my time in this business HUD has never sent me _any_ letters. I have had service companies send me emails stating that HUD adjusted my estimate, but never anything from HUD.


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

I have never recieved a letter from HUD cutting any of my bids either...:whistling2:


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

JDRM said:


> I have never recieved a letter from HUD cutting any of my bids either...:whistling2:




Yeah me either.. but i do get lots orders that say HUD cut or approved.

As if HUD just sits around looking a prices... My as*


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

Zuse said:


> Yeah me either.. but i do get lots orders that say HUD cut or approved.
> 
> As if HUD just sits around looking a prices... My as*


Exactly! I give "Hud" one thing, their cut bid turnaround time is good! They usually come back within the week of initial....:shifty:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

My experience was on the Preconvey side, I never did any post convey work on HUD properties. 

I would send in copies of the city violation with the inspector's contact information on it with every bid that I submitted. I refused to perform the "HUD cut your bid" approvals. After a while, the work orders would only be curing part of the violations, at my price. The other stuff just disappeared. We did run into a crew once replacing a defective roof while we were doing the gutters (both violations).

I just replaced a roof for FNMA last month. Drove past a house a block over that still hadn't conveyed and the violations were still present. Bid those violations 2.5 years ago. I never could figure out the rhyme or reason.... 

I never did receive anything on HUD letterhead either.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

BRADSConst said:


> My experience was on the Preconvey side, I never did any post convey work on HUD properties.
> 
> I would send in copies of the city violation with the inspector's contact information on it with every bid that I submitted. I refused to perform the "HUD cut your bid" approvals. After a while, the work orders would only be curing part of the violations, at my price. The other stuff just disappeared. We did run into a crew once replacing a defective roof while we were doing the gutters (both violations).
> 
> ...


We work with properties on their way to convey and out when they return back for issues that were not addressed. This is when Banks want to convey them as they getting fined. We received few of these letters so we could send additional information back to process denied items. Funny thing happened once: we were in the process of trying to get bid justified so it would be paid by HUD, when Bank went ahead and approved our entire bid and P&P completed this work (not us). There is no reason, no logic, no explanation. I stopped questioning long time ago. I think Banks will pick up where HUD doesn't pay in some cases. Differ by bank and account manager.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

PropPresPro said:


> Interesting. In all my time in this business HUD has never sent me _any_ letters. I have had service companies send me emails stating that HUD adjusted my estimate, but never anything from HUD.


We received them from regionals, not from HUD directly. Would be funny if we did.


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

newreo said:


> We received them from regionals, not from HUD directly. Would be funny if we did.


That is because HUD dosent cut anything, it is the Nat:whistling2:


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

JDRM said:


> That is because HUD dosent cut anything, it is the Nat:whistling2:


It comes on the HUD form with all information for the property such as convey, all the bids from different companies, what denied what approved, why denied and why adjusted. Called over-allowable screening.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

newreo said:


> It comes on the HUD form with all information for the property such as convey, all the bids from different companies, what denied what approved, why denied and why adjusted. Called over-allowable screening.


I have received the actual screen shot of the over allowable screen from safeguard on a lot of properties. It's not on hud letterhead so they can change it but I believe that its what hud and the clients sees but i could be wrong. On all of the over allowable screen shots they only saw approved or denied nothing about adjustment of bids.


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