# insurance fraud???



## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

How many times have you did a damage report and then the Nat wants a police report so they can file a claim. 
You know dam well that they are not going to use this money to replace the items missing or do the repairs.

How do they get away with it?


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

I 100% disagree with your statement. I'm an insurance contractor and I do high 6 figures of insurance repairs on the insurance claims the banks make. They do all the repairss per the adjuster scopes

I have seen a few where they took the money and ran but it was because the house needed to demoed.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*That alone would not costitute fraud*

They are insured for the loss, not the repair. Happens a lot in auto claims too. You get your damage covered, but decide to not fix it, this is not fraud.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> I 100% disagree with your statement. I'm an insurance contractor and I do high 6 figures of insurance repairs on the insurance claims the banks make. They do all the repairss per the adjuster scopes
> 
> I have seen a few where they took the money and ran but it was because the house needed to demoed.


I don't think you are quite understanding what he means. We get these a few times a month and there is fraud going on for sure. They will get say $3,000 to replace a missing A/C unit, then try to get us to do it for $1,500.00.

CORELOGIC is huge on these.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Simple answer don't so the work. I do a ton and very high volume and I have never been asked to do an insurance scope for 50% discount. Standard with nationals and I work for a bunhc of them is 10% discount and then bill recoverable and receive the funds after work is inspected by insurance.

Are a licensed contrator?

I do roughly 5 ac unit a week and by law and build codes in my state material is more than $1500


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> Simple answer don't so the work. I do a ton and very high volume and I have never been asked to do an insurance scope for 50% discount. Standard with nationals and I work for a bunhc of them is 10% discount and then bill recoverable and receive the funds after work is inspected by insurance.
> 
> Are a licensed contrator?
> 
> I do roughly 5 ac unit a week and by law and build codes in my state material is more than $1500


Yes i am licensed but I have never changed an A/C unit and never will. I have an HVAC guy that does that stuff for me. I turn down Insurance work for both the nationals and the public almost every time. We only do the good ones and those are few and far between. I am getting 375-425 a square for roofing right now and i have never gotten that from an insurance company. We just sold a siding job for $600.00 a square and it's nothing more than fanfold and double 4.5. I'm not interested in a national or an insurance company setting my pricing. When I get to price it how I think it should be or on that rare occasion when the insurance pays more than the open market would we do the work.

We are seeing our volume pick up in construction for some reason? Probably just where we are focusing. I did 4 rekeys today that paid $600.00 and only used 10 locks. I wish I could just do rekeys! LOL i don't need crews or materials and when the properties are busted out...NOT MY PROBLEM!!! Some schmuck will be along to trash it out, winterize, sales clean, board up, change light bulbs, and install handrails for $400.00.:thumbsup:


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I don't think you are quite understanding what he means. We get these a few times a month and *there is fraud going on for sure. They will get say $3,000 to replace a missing A/C unit, then try to get us to do it for $1,500.00.*
> 
> CORELOGIC is huge on these.


Please explain to me why you think what is in bold and underlined, can be construed as "fraud" :blink:

This is no different than you filing a claim on your HOI and using cheaper materials...Are you going to return the funds not spent on the repair? :icon_wink:

No, this is not "fraud", it is called doing business. :whistling2:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Please explain to me why you think what is in bold and underlined, can be construed as "fraud" :blink:
> 
> This is no different than you filing a claim on your HOI and using cheaper materials...Are you going to return the funds not spent on the repair? :icon_wink:
> 
> No, this is not "fraud", it is called doing business. :whistling2:


So you don't consider it fraud when you work for Corelogic on a 25% discount but they take more than half? Your company must be doing better than ours if you can afford to lose money like that. How about the properties where the mortgager has taken the sinks and water heater etc and I have to meet the police and file an insurance claim. We all know including the police that no actual theft took place. 

Is that just doing business to? 

Come spend a day in the St. Louis area and you will see this in property after property. We waste our time meeting third parties filling out reports and bidding item after item only to be told we can't charge that of the bank is not going to do that. About the 4th time you measure out baseboards, missing wiring, switch covers, and missing vents only to either not get the work or get it for peanuts and not perform it you will understand.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Please explain to me why you think what is in bold and underlined, can be construed as "fraud" :blink:
> 
> This is no different than you filing a claim on your HOI and using cheaper materials...Are you going to return the funds not spent on the repair? :icon_wink:
> 
> No, this is not "fraud", it is called doing business. :whistling2:


Just so we are clear I have never filed an insurance claim and outside of major major damage wouldn't. If I did what you suggest by using cheaper materials and profiting from the insurance company would the law look at that as fraud?

I believe it does constitute fraud. It just happens so often people have come to accept it as a normal practice. Either way I would never do it.


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> So you don't consider it fraud when you work for Corelogic on a 25% discount but they take more than half? Your company must be doing better than ours if you can afford to lose money like that. How about the properties where the mortgager has taken the sinks and water heater etc and I have to meet the police and file an insurance claim. We all know including the police that no actual theft took place.
> 
> Is that just doing business to?
> 
> Come spend a day in the St. Louis area and you will see this in property after property. We waste our time meeting third parties filling out reports and bidding item after item only to be told we can't charge that of the bank is not going to do that. About the 4th time you measure out baseboards, missing wiring, switch covers, and missing vents only to either not get the work or get it for peanuts and not perform it you will understand.


this is exactly the scenario that I was talking about


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

hammerhead said:


> this is exactly the scenario that I was talking about


Yeah I understood that. There a few on here that are a little pro national and I'm not sure why?


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I don't think you are quite understanding what he means. We get these a few times a month and there is fraud going on for sure. They will get say $3,000 to replace a missing A/C unit, then try to get us to do it for $1,500.00.
> 
> CORELOGIC is huge on these.


That's not fraud. That's them choosing to spend less.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> That's not fraud. That's them choosing to spend less.


Contractually we are supposed to be working at a 25% discount so where does the rest of the money go?


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Contractually we are supposed to be working at a 25% discount so where does the rest of the money go?


 None of your business, that's where it goes. :whistling2:

There is zero way of me making my thoughts 'PC' so here goes: do you know anything at all about doing business Craigslist Hack? Or are you actually who your screen name suggests? :icon_cheesygrin:



> How about the properties where the mortgager has taken the sinks and water heater etc and I have to meet the police and file an insurance claim. *We all know including the police that no actual theft took place.*


Do you not do business to make money? An insurance company has a claim from a house that has been foreclosed on, but the kitchen sink, copper plumbing and AC all ripped out by the foreclosed homeowner. Bank claims theft. But you, oh wise one :notworthy: , "know" no "actual theft" took place? You truly are great! Great at not having a clue. That home was sold with a kitchen sink, AC and copper plumbing. So according to you, since the [ex-]homeowner is the thief, no theft occured? Brilliant! :thumbsup: :whistling2:

Yes, according to LAW, this constitutes and defines the word 'theft'. But you think the bank committed fraud filing an insurance claim, for which they have faithfully paid the premiums on. The insurance company sees $3000 in damage and cuts a check. The insurance company and the bank are now in agreement and everyone is happy. Insurance closes their file of the claim as paid. 

Bank is happy, they are now not out of pocket or taking as big of a loss on the property, but still desires to be out even less. So they contract you to come replace all the damage for $1500 minus 25%. You do the work (and you did a fine job too BTW! :thumbup: ), you get paid, everyone is happy, correct? No? Oh, that's right! we still have the issue of fraud looming overhead.

Fraud? No, there is no fraud going on here. And I'll tell you why. Because when you accepted the work order, what did you do? And be honest here; did you go out and make sure you spent every penny on the repair without a profit? Of course not. You did the best job possible for the least amount possible in order to increase your profit margin. And that's alright, man! This is called BUSINESS. :icon_wink:

You want to know so badly where the other $1500 went? Likely it went into paying all the people it takes to process everything from the initial report to the final conveyance. 

See? There is no fraud here at all:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud


> *Fraud*
> A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury. Fraud is commonly understood as dishonesty calculated for advantage. A person who is dishonest may be called a fraud. In the U.S. legal system, fraud is a specific offense with certain features.


Theft DID occur. The only fraud committed here is not the bank or you, it is the homeowner, who also signed a contract with the bank and ended by not paying what was agreed upon. Then STOLE the kitchen sink, copper plumbing and AC causing even more legal injury to the bank.

I hope this has been informative, and helps you to understand just what the meaning of fraud is, regardless of what your personal feelings are. This concludes this tutorial. :icon_wink:



> Contractually we are supposed to be working at a 25% discount so where does the rest of the money go?


WAIT! Y'all thought I forgot something, huh? :icon_wink: I am sure Craigslist Hack is thinking, 'but what about the 25%?'. Not to worry, I can explain this as well:
The 25% is to cover their costs/overhead + profit. Again, impossible to be construed as fraud in any way, shape or form. And just for the record, 25% is pretty damn good. The general, accepted rule of thumb for a sub-contractor (you) is to take a 1/3 reduction while the prime (national) gets the full rate (which don't forget has to pay you minus the deduction). I worked for over a quarter century under that model as did all subs in the industry. 

So there you have it, everything tied up in a neat little informative package for your reading and furthering education pleasure.


> There a few on here that are a little pro national and I'm not sure why?


 No, not pro national, pro regional nor pro contractor. I am pro fairness, what's good for the goose is good for the gander which means, if it is fair for one company, its fair for everyone. If the nationals are doing something you don't like, don't work with them. 

Blame all the morons working for below minimum wage, don't blame the nats for doing business. They need work done cheaply, you need work that is profitable. Business 101 is over. :donatello:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> None of your business, that's where it goes. :whistling2:
> 
> There is zero way of me making my thoughts 'PC' so here goes: do you know anything at all about doing business Craigslist Hack? Or are you actually who your screen name suggests? :icon_cheesygrin:
> 
> ...


You made my point with your own definition! You are obviously either confused or not bright enough to understand.

lets start with the 25% this should be easy if you take your shoes of so you can count toes. $1500.00 is 50% of $3000.00 but I have a contract stating they only take 25%. So fraud plain and simple.

As for your contention that they use that money to facilitate the processing of work orders....??? REALLY??? They would not need so many people if they conducted their business with a more productive model. They could really let that person calling me 3 times a day looking for the missing pic of a hose hooked up to a water heater that is laying on it's side. Clearly all the answers are in the pictures and PCR's but they don't take the time to think.

Noe for the Insurance fraud. We recently had a property where we had to allow access so they could move out their personal property. We babysat them for 4 hrs. During that time my guy call and says they are taking appliances, and water heater. I call the bank as we were working direct on this one. They said just take pictures. So we took pics. A month later we had to back and meet the police for a report. The bank had reported some minor holes in drywall, missing quarter round, missing water heater, deck damage, etc. ALL CLEARLY NOT VANDALISM OR THEFT!!! The officer was appalled at what was going on and voiced his opinion multiple times. He has a better understanding of what constitutes fraud than you do.

These banks and Nationals are all about making money any way they can. There is nothing wrong with that. Doing so through deception is fraud. Using the insurance on a property when a tree falls on it or for storm damage is why they have insurance.

Now if you are as smart as you think you are you will know that the BANK isn't going to take a loss on the property anyway. No matter how you slice it.

I hate nationals and regionals even more I won't deny that. However I am not wearing a tin foil hat behind a key board just waiting to spew venom.

I believe in fairness and I have been in this business for a while now.

You are new here and before you start chastising people or "Teaching class" you really need to be smarter than the students. Based on your posts so far (all 14 of them) you are utterly clueless. Tha'ts ok though stick around you will get smarter or spend your days arguing with people who know more than you. Your choice.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Had a case a short time back. Our bids to replace the roof on a foreclosure were denied, as were the roof repair bids, the initial tarping bid, repair and replace gutters and fascia, etc. We tarped the roof 120 days after the initial bid. 8 months later we meet the adjuster to look at the property. Inside of the house was severe damage from water intrusion. Warped floors, mold on the walls and in the attic. Claim denied? Why? Lack of proper maint by the bank after the fact. The insurance company had copies of every piece of paper we turned in, PCRs, bids, photos, so they knew what was going on and when. The lender couldn't move the property without giving it away so they filed a claim to recoup some money. Could this have been fraud? Certainly negligence.


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

:wallbash: Damn...you are all over here. First we began discussing fraud, and now you are just venting because YOU don't like how a business is run. Sounds like this is a hobby for you? 

Yes, of course, you are again (mistakenly), correct. :whistling2:

And of course with your mentality that I only have posted 15 times on an internet chat room, absolutely makes me a moron, because I don't waste my time on pt.com. :sleep1:



> lets start with the 25% this should be easy if you take your shoes of so you can count toes. $1500.00 is 50% of $3000.00 but I have a contract stating they only take 25%. So fraud plain and simple.


Yes, let's start (and end) with this ridiculous reasoning: I wreck my car. I can get it repaired rather inexpensively. But wait! My insurance company says no, the car is unrepairable, we will cut you a check and pick-up the car. 

So they come to get the car, hand me a check for what I think is above market value of the original loss. I start looking around, and find a BETTER car for LESS than what the insurance company payed out for the loss. The original car was only worth $1500, but the insurance paid me $3000. But the nicer car is only $2000. This leaves $1000 left over. Have I just committed fraud? Of course not.

But you seem to think otherwise in all your chat room posting expertise. :whistling2: According to you, and your ridiculous reasoning just because you don't like being shown you are incorrect, I have committed fraud. Nothing more ridiculous have I read about the subject of fraud. 

If you don't like the way someone does business then get out there and show them how it is done by you getting your own contract direct with WF for example. Don't just sit and whine that it is fraud when it is not. 

You obviously have a closed mind, and that with your posting record, you are the master of all you write. :notworthy: 

I have work to go do...Try to read up on constitutes fraud and then we can 'chat' again. But until you get some business savvy, stop spouting about things you only wish were true.

Stay safe, peace out, cowboy, I mean hack. :cowboy:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> :wallbash: Damn...you are all over here. First we began discussing fraud, and now you are just venting because YOU don't like how a business is run. Sounds like this is a hobby for you?
> 
> Yes, of course, you are again (mistakenly), correct. :whistling2:
> 
> ...


You still aren't getting it. If I have a CONTRACT that allows them to take 25% and they take 50% that's fraud. 

Pocketing money on an insurance scam is technically fraud ask an insurance agent. 

In most of these cases they are filing false police reports so that is the fraud. 

I'm working on my own contracts direct and getting out of the business but thanks for the advice. 

This is a hobby for me actually I happen to moderate two other message boards in the motocross industry and I am active in a body building forum. 

For the record I'm still making money (without committing fraud) I've just had to change my business model repeatedly in the last 24 months. 

No one wins an Internet argument so this is pointless. Good day sir


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

You are the one "not getting it". That 25% is of WHAT THEY PAY, NOT WHAT THEY WERE PAID! Really simple. Show me in the contract of yours where it states they will pay 100% what they get paid, minus 25%. You can't because that part is all in your mind filed under 'unjust'. But you do not want to see it. 

And, FTR, I haven't been arguing, I have been discussing. Have a good day.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> You are the one "not getting it". That 25% is of WHAT THEY PAY, NOT WHAT THEY WERE PAID! Really simple. Show me in the contract of yours where it states they will pay 100% what they get paid, minus 25%. You can't because that part is all in your mind filed under 'unjust'. But you do not want to see it.
> 
> And, FTR, I haven't been arguing, I have been discussing. Have a good day.


Now you are just outright wrong. They do not pay us 25% they take 25%. Look it up. 

No one is debating their right to make money. What the OP and I are saying is they are making false claims then not doing the work.

Have you ever ran an insurance loss inspection? Honest question? The reason they have us do them is to prevent home owners or mortgagers from pocketing money or committing fraud. There are hundreds of guys on this very forum that know what I'm talking about. The banks don't want us doing to them what they do.


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Do you not do business to make money? An insurance company has a claim from a house that has been foreclosed on, but the kitchen sink, copper plumbing and AC all ripped out by the foreclosed homeowner. Bank claims theft. But you, oh wise one :notworthy: , "know" no "actual theft" took place? You truly are great! Great at not having a clue. That home was sold with a kitchen sink, AC and copper plumbing. So according to you, since the [ex-]homeowner is the thief, no theft occured? Brilliant! :thumbsup: :whistling2:
> 
> Yes, according to LAW, this constitutes and defines the word 'theft'. But you think the bank committed fraud filing an insurance claim, for which they have faithfully paid the premiums on. The insurance company sees $3000 in damage and cuts a check. The insurance company and the bank are now in agreement and everyone is happy. Insurance closes their file of the claim as paid.
> 
> :donatello:


How do you define theft? I was at a property yesterday to get a police report for theft of garage door and opener. furnace and ac unit. now here is the question. 
The detached garage was recently built. was this part of the mortgage or paid for by the occupant?
The furnace and ac unit was in the East part of the house that was newly added. but the furnace and ac unit in the West side of the home was still there. Was the hvac unit on the East side part of the mortgage? 

There was also a pellet burning fireplace in the new end that was gone. Was this part of the mortgage?

But they are going to claim all of it for insurance. Tell me thats not fraud. :notworthy:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

hammerhead said:


> How do you define theft? I was at a property yesterday to get a police report for theft of garage door and opener. furnace and ac unit. now here is the question.
> The detached garage was recently built. was this part of the mortgage or paid for by the occupant?
> The furnace and ac unit was in the East part of the house that was newly added. but the furnace and ac unit in the West side of the home was still there. Was the hvac unit on the East side part of the mortgage?
> 
> ...


The other scenario I see all the time is we will have a property for 2 years then a storm rolls through and damages the roof. All of a sudden the bank turns in all of the missing cabinets, missing flooring, damaged bathroom fixtures, etc that existed the entire two years prior. They claim all of that damage as if it were new and the result of an act of GOD. That is fraud.

This guy seems caught up in the fact that the Nationals and banks have a right to make money. He seems to believe that I hate them for making money. That simply isn't the case. I hate HOW they make money. The 25% sucks but I signed a contract and I intend to honor that agreement. The problem is I expect the same from them.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> The other scenario I see all the time is we will have a property for 2 years then a storm rolls through and damages the roof. All of a sudden the bank turns in all of the missing cabinets, missing flooring, damaged bathroom fixtures, etc that existed the entire two years prior. They claim all of that damage as if it were new and the result of an act of GOD. That is fraud.
> 
> This guy seems caught up in the fact that the Nationals and banks have a right to make money. He seems to believe that I hate them for making money. That simply isn't the case. I hate HOW they make money. The 25% sucks but I signed a contract and I intend to honor that agreement. The problem is I expect the same from them.


If you have proof of this, I'd turn it in. I believe Balboa and Assurant are the 2 largest CPI policy writers.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

hammerhead said:


> How do you define theft? I was at a property yesterday to get a police report for theft of garage door and opener. furnace and ac unit. now here is the question.
> The detached garage was recently built. was this part of the mortgage or paid for by the occupant?
> The furnace and ac unit was in the East part of the house that was newly added. but the furnace and ac unit in the West side of the home was still there. Was the hvac unit on the East side part of the mortgage?
> 
> ...


Usually any appliance affixed to the property at the time of an initial secure would be considered to be a part of the home if I'm not mistaken. Or if the home had those items as part of the initial funding. But I'm not well versed on CPI. Wannabe is. Might be good to ask him.


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Usually any appliance affixed to the property at the time of an initial secure would be considered to be a part of the home if I'm not mistaken. Or if the home had those items as part of the initial funding. But I'm not well versed on CPI. Wannabe is. Might be good to ask him.


thats the tricky part. when we built our house we did not include any appliances furnace/ac or water heater in the mortgage. we bought them out of pocket from friends in the various industries and they installed the mechanicals for me. I was not going to pay interest for 30 yrs on things that go bad in 15.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> If you have proof of this, I'd turn it in. I believe Balboa and Assurant are the 2 largest CPI policy writers.


I have proof, addresses, date stamped pics, etc. It happens EVERYDAY at least in our area.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Anything put on or in the property as a fixture is considered permanent and part of the property. That would include outbuildings, sheds on foundations, ceiling fans, and yes, even hvac systems.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Usually any appliance affixed to the property at the time of an initial secure would be considered to be a part of the home if I'm not mistaken. Or if the home had those items as part of the initial funding. But I'm not well versed on CPI. Wannabe is. Might be good to ask him.


 
Oh how I love a topic with mudslinging and hollering 


Funny that most everyone is correct... LOL


Insurance on Foreclosed homes are written on a Form 1 Basic Perils policy (usually a DP-dwelling policy form which covers lightning, fire, vandalism/malicious mischief, wind, hail, smoke). When a mortgage company turns in a claim to the CPI coverage, like Thanohano stated, its usually with Balboa or Assurant. 


The Insurance Company will send Mr Adjuster (like me) to the property to do an adjustment. In their files it will state if there was appliances included in the loan (fixtures) since that coverage would be applicable to the dwelling/property coverage or not. Some of the policies will have coverage for property contents IN CASE an item that would not be considered as part of the dwelling is missing.....


So say John Doe takes the appliances/furnace/hot water heater/cabinets etc etc with him on the way out of the home. If a Police Report is filed then those items may be covered under the dwelling provisions for Malicious Mischief since "everyone knows" that the former owner took those items but you "can't prove it". See that prior owner has ownership of all the items in the home up to the date of "bank takeover of the property". Not right but its the law. 


IF and ONLY IF you can prove that the prior homeowner removed the items then its considered Theft (IF its included in the mortgage contract) and can be prosecuted. Theft is a covered loss so the Insurance pays claim anyhow. The Mortgage Companies won't prosecute for a few measly thousands of dollars BUT Insurance Companies do subrogate and prosecute through the National Insurace Crime Bureau. Those Insurance Companies have more teeth 


As far as being fraud not paying the contractor ALL the insurance funds (minus the discounts)? Nope thats the competitive bidding process in all its glory 


If the Mortgage Company turns in a claim and they KNOW they will not fix the problem? Not illegal since the insurance policy has to pay the ACV portion nonetheless. 


If your estimate is done correctly and it makes a wise business decision to have the property repaired and collect the depreciation/recoverables from the Insurance Company then the repairs are normally completed. *Its business!*


There ARE thousands of $$ lost everyday to the P&P contractor for not understanding HOW to do the estimate and how to word the estimate. 

With most Insurance Repair Estimate work requests through the Nationals you can ask what Insurance Company is requesting the estimate. Once that has been derived then call the Ins. Company and ask for the name of the Adjuster handling that claim (more the 99.9% of the time it is an independent adjuster). Call him/her and ask what coverage form is applicable to that home. They will tell you. Those Adjusters don't care anymore than a P&P contractor about that home....


Once you have determined what is covered and what is not then you know how to bid it....


Estimate it with an Insurance Estimating Software Program (Xactimate or Symbility normally). If you don't know how insurance pays then get someone from a contracting or restoration company to help you estimate the loss correctly (pay them for this service) and watch your Insurance Repair Work profits go up.


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

> As far as being fraud not paying the contractor ALL the insurance funds (minus the discounts)? Nope thats the competitive bidding process in all its glory
> 
> 
> If the Mortgage Company turns in a claim and they KNOW they will not fix the problem? Not illegal since the insurance policy has to pay the ACV portion nonetheless.


Thankyou for confirming what I have been saying.


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## browneyedgirl (May 17, 2013)

Wow very interesting topic all I know for sure is something must be going on because when we do a police report in order to get the report the contractor is not allowed to get the report anymore the police stations around here specifically say that the mortgage company has to contact them and give all there information and why they need the report and that just started this year and they told me that it specifically has to do with fraud claims on insurance


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

browneyedgirl said:


> Wow very interesting topic all I know for sure is something must be going on because when we do a police report in order to get the report the contractor is not allowed to get the report anymore the police stations around here specifically say that the mortgage company has to contact them and give all there information and why they need the report and that just started this year and they told me that it specifically has to do with fraud claims on insurance


This happens in some of our coverage areas but not all. Yes we are seeing the same thing. It is because of fraud and wasting the polices time.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Its not fraud but the Police Depts don't want to make a report on unsubstanciated claims from a party that does not own the home. 

If the police report is requested after the foreclosure process is completed and the bank is the owner then the Police don't normally balk at the report.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

Very interesting banter!! Informative as well. But as for as the police report goes, it is a formality. It is the first "legal" step in getting documentation of the incident. Next it is up to the specific law enforcement agency how they proceed. You cannot just call the insurance company and say "hey the furnace is gone". All parties know where the furnace likely went. But the insurance company needs documentation to support release of funds. Much like if someone steals you bank card, charges stuff in California and the same time you were at your job in Florida. It is known you did not make the charge. But before you bank will credit your account, they need a police report.

The law enforcement agency is responsible for investigations, not the contractor or the bank or the insurance company. One reason the police have the attitude is that by their experience, they know, just as Wannabee pointed out, that even if the homeowner took the stuff it all comes down to when they took it, what was mortgaged, etc. These issues make it a civil case more than a legal one. The law enforcement officer may feel this to be a waste because he knows it will likely go no further.


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