# Work for Cyprexx??????



## Guest

Is anyone working with Cyprexx?
They contacted us want us to do Fannie Mae work for them. However, we are very reluctant to sign any agreements with them.
We could not add them to our insurance, and when we started looking for an insurance company that would add them our premium would increase 77%....That is not a misprint...3600 bucks more to have them on our insurance....
They pay this flat rate thing...$365 includes the following;
Sales clean
lawn, up to 1 acre
debris removal up to 20 cyds
These numbers seem so rediculouslly low...
Is anyone working for them and can you make their numbers work?
We have done Fannie Mae work before and this just seems like a joke.
we did some work for them (Cyprexx)a few years ago but they only gave us recuts and maids, so we stopped.
Would appreciate any input on them...I just do not see being able to make a profit.


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## Guest

Good Morning,

I wouldn't do any work for them at those prices even if I owned a landfill and the property was right next door to me.


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## thanohano44

Cleanupman said:


> Is anyone working with Cyprexx?
> They contacted us want us to do Fannie Mae work for them. However, we are very reluctant to sign any agreements with them.
> We could not add them to our insurance, and when we started looking for an insurance company that would add them our premium would increase 77%....That is not a misprint...3600 bucks more to have them on our insurance....
> They pay this flat rate thing...$365 includes the following;
> Sales clean
> lawn, up to 1 acre
> debris removal up to 20 cyds
> These numbers seem so rediculouslly low...
> Is anyone working for them and can you make their numbers work?
> We have done Fannie Mae work before and this just seems like a joke.
> we did some work for them (Cyprexx)a few years ago but they only gave us recuts and maids, so we stopped.
> Would appreciate any input on them...I just do not see being able to make a profit.


I declined a lot of work from them this past year. One of their hack contractors used one of my BAC properties as a dumping ground for tree clippings. Or so the neighbor says.


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## BPWY

So what is the reason that your insurance carrier won't add them???


I need to know this, because they just contacted me to do some work for them.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> So what is the reason that your insurance carrier won't add them???
> 
> I need to know this, because they just contacted me to do some work for them.


Paul, 

It's due to the huge amount of insurance claims they file and claims filed against them, safeguard, FAS etc. That's the reason for the new mortgage field services specific policy. American Family Insurance started doing this 2 years ago. They even told FAS F off on a few jobs and sent their own contractors to perform the work instead of paying out claims. 

I'll pm or email you more info.


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> I'll pm or email you more info.







Thanks........


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## mtmtnman

Cleanupman said:


> Is anyone working with Cyprexx?
> They contacted us want us to do Fannie Mae work for them. However, we are very reluctant to sign any agreements with them.
> We could not add them to our insurance, and when we started looking for an insurance company that would add them our premium would increase 77%....That is not a misprint...3600 bucks more to have them on our insurance....
> They pay this flat rate thing...$365 includes the following;
> Sales clean
> lawn, up to 1 acre
> debris removal up to 20 cyds
> These numbers seem so rediculouslly low...
> Is anyone working for them and can you make their numbers work?
> We have done Fannie Mae work before and this just seems like a joke.
> we did some work for them (Cyprexx)a few years ago but they only gave us recuts and maids, so we stopped.
> Would appreciate any input on them...I just do not see being able to make a profit.




Do 10 jobs for $100 each or 1 job for $1000. Where are you better off? I get more that there base rate on 90% of the properties i do for them. (3-4 a month) They don't have FNMA up in these parts.....


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## Guest

The contract at the numbers I psosted are specifically for FM properties with Cyprexx...no one else from Cyprexx contacted me, only a FM rep.
Our agent says this...
When something happenes and an attorney places et.al. on a legal document(which is a standard practice in law) The lawsuit legally attaches EVERY policy on the "additionally insured" so if Cyprexx(FAS) has say 7000 vendors and Cyprexx is named 'AI' 7000 times, the 1 or 2 mioolion dollar amount just got multiplied by 7000...
The reality is this...WE ARE insuring them....That's what our agent said...
Perhaps I should say that is how I understand it...now I did graduate with a minor in business law and from my preliminary research he (insurance agent) is correct....
Irregardless of the insurance issue...the numbers offered are a joke and we have said no...
I'm on an information mission just in case they come back with a counter.
The work the want us to do is a minimum &50-800 job, a far cry from 365. One could go broke real fast...


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## BPWY

Cleanup I've heard that from another source about the insurance.


I'm wondering how in the hell the insurance underwriters are tolerating this.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Cleanup I've heard that from another source about the insurance.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering how in the hell the insurance underwriters are tolerating this.


They have stopped!!! Our company WILL insure us, however they WILL NOT add anyone as 'AI' or allow them to be the certificate holder.
We went to have Cyprexx added as 'AI' and our agent said no...
When we started looking into insurance we found to get a policy that would put them on our preimum would rise 77%...not a misprint 77%!!!!!
When I got back to them they jst stammered and hemmed and hawed...Had a meeting with my administrative people with the owner on the line and we are not going to get on board with them...


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## Guest

Good Morning,

According to my insurance man, adding a company as a certificate holder doesn't insure the CH. All it means is that if there is a change to the policy, all the CH are informed of the change.


That is my understanding. Is this correct?


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## Guest

Right now this may company specific...
For years American Family has handled all of our insurance needs.
This is something new in the industry. However, once one starts something it is not long before they all fall into line. There is a difference between a "Certificate Holder"
and additionally insured. The later insuring the company being added and holding the certificate. If a company is only the CH then that just proves you have insurance and are insured to do the work they send you.
If someone sues them they can not attach your policy...that changes when they are listed as additionall insured.
At leats that is my understanding


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## Guest

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> According to my insurance man, adding a company as a certificate holder doesn't insure the CH. All it means is that if there is a change to the policy, all the CH are informed of the change.
> 
> 
> That is my understanding. Is this correct?


Your insurance man is correct for "certificate holder" BUT when the companies require you to put the Service Company as the Certificate Holder AND as an Additional Insured than the Service Company has as much "right" to your insurance policy as you do. Only difference is they are not the ones paying the premiums. Thus, You are providing insurance coverage for the Service Company. 

Where the Insurance Industry is racing to catch up on this Property Preservation is that they have not been underwriting the RISK fully..ie the Service Company. Once the underwriters have determined that the Service Companies are willie nillie submitting claims against YOUR policy they will not allow the Additional Insured Endorsement to your policy without a hefty premium. 

NOTE: that is the reason I have always posted that YOU most definately DO NOT WANT to purchase your General Liability or E&O Insurnace Policies from your "regular" insurance agent since they DO NOT offer the policies that pertain to the P&P Business. It will haunt you down the road. After 28 years as an Insurance Agency owner I will not write MY OWN policy---I'm dumb but not an idiot:laughing:

We have had the PLEASURE of Service Companies filing a claim on MY policy without ME/INSURED/PREMIUM PAYER having any SAY SO!!!! Not a damn thing you can do about it except to get your checkbook out and pay the deductible THEN pay the higher premiums on the Renewal for the claims loss ratios. 

We have raised the deductible to $5000 per occurence and are fighting another willie nillie claim currently. We told the lawyers that we "do not have the $5000 deductible to pay and if you want to pay out the settlement that is not justified AT ALL then you will be the one absorbing the $5000---not I" So far this has stopped them in their tracks but I suspect they stopped till they can find $5000 in chargebacks from the Service Company so they can pay their BUDDIES THE LAWYERS. JMO


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## Guest

Good Afternoon,

I have assumed that Service Companies will attempt to lay claims against my insurance. I figured this out after an unfortunate experience when I first started. Since then I have refused to add any Service Company that I associate with as an Additional Insured. I make this very clear to companies that "I will not insure your company under any circumstances. I will provide proof of my own insurance at your request and add you as a certificate holder but I will not insure your company." Most Service Companies I have informed of this policy understand and do not have a problem but there have been one or two that will no longer return phone calls or emails. It is my understanding that these Companies are not work my time.


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## Guest

I did a few jobs for them over the past few years. I'd get the job about 1 out of 4 bids, i always just did winterizing and thaws and could name my price and theyd take it or not. I just sent them my ins certificates, well my agent did. My ins never went up as they are just a certificate holder, not actually on your insurance


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## thanohano44

FremontREO said:


> Your insurance man is correct for "certificate holder" BUT when the companies require you to put the Service Company as the Certificate Holder AND as an Additional Insured than the Service Company has as much "right" to your insurance policy as you do. Only difference is they are not the ones paying the premiums. Thus, You are providing insurance coverage for the Service Company.
> 
> Where the Insurance Industry is racing to catch up on this Property Preservation is that they have not been underwriting the RISK fully..ie the Service Company. Once the underwriters have determined that the Service Companies are willie nillie submitting claims against YOUR policy they will not allow the Additional Insured Endorsement to your policy without a hefty premium.
> 
> NOTE: that is the reason I have always posted that YOU most definately DO NOT WANT to purchase your General Liability or E&O Insurnace Policies from your "regular" insurance agent since they DO NOT offer the policies that pertain to the P&P Business. It will haunt you down the road. After 28 years as an Insurance Agency owner I will not write MY OWN policy---I'm dumb but not an idiot:laughing:
> 
> We have had the PLEASURE of Service Companies filing a claim on MY policy without ME/INSURED/PREMIUM PAYER having any SAY SO!!!! Not a damn thing you can do about it except to get your checkbook out and pay the deductible THEN pay the higher premiums on the Renewal for the claims loss ratios.
> 
> We have raised the deductible to $5000 per occurence and are fighting another willie nillie claim currently. We told the lawyers that we "do not have the $5000 deductible to pay and if you want to pay out the settlement that is not justified AT ALL then you will be the one absorbing the $5000---not I" So far this has stopped them in their tracks but I suspect they stopped till they can find $5000 in chargebacks from the Service Company so they can pay their BUDDIES THE LAWYERS. JMO


Unbelievable. I had to drop American Family after 5 years because of this nonsense. The good thing is I have OREP. I just wish USAA would do business insurance and GL with E&O. I'd save a lot more and I know they would tell these service companies to F--k off and sew them for bs claims. 

Had a car accident that wasn't my fault that Progressive was disputing who was the responsible party, when common sense tells you as well as the police report that their insured was at fault. How can I be at fault when their insured ran a red light and t boned my truck? They refused to pay. USAA told me don't worry about it, just pay the deductible and we will pursue them and reimburse you or your policy for your $500 deductible. Within 3 days I had a refund and a new Sierra. 

It's a good thing we have this CT forum to discuss and "complain" about our good and bad experiences in this field. So we know how about to better protect ourselves as well as how to handle some situations.


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## Guest

Thats what and how subrogation works. They (Progressive) would't want to pay your claim to you since they are admitting liability for any possible liability/personal injury claims.


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## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> Unbelievable. I had to drop American Family after 5 years because of this nonsense. The good thing is I have OREP. I just wish USAA would do business insurance and GL with E&O. I'd save a lot more and I know they would tell these service companies to F--k off and sew them for bs claims.
> 
> Had a car accident that wasn't my fault that Progressive was disputing who was the responsible party, when common sense tells you as well as the police report that their insured was at fault. How can I be at fault when their insured ran a red light and t boned my truck? They refused to pay. USAA told me don't worry about it, just pay the deductible and we will pursue them and reimburse you or your policy for your $500 deductible. Within 3 days I had a refund and a new Sierra.
> 
> It's a good thing we have this CT forum to discuss and "complain" about our good and bad experiences in this field. So we know how about to better protect ourselves as well as how to handle some situations.


Progessive settled with your insurance company so quickly because they know they were in violation of the law. When liability is clearly determined, they have to do the right thing. 

They know that, USAA new that, and that's why they settled real quickly once your insurance co. got involved. They would have been torn apart in court.


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## Guest

We are doing work for them currently and would like to know if anyone else on this forum can share some light on how to make any money with them?


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## Guest

Bid everything HIGH and the ones you do get will offset all the ones you wasted time on. Hopefully you get enough approvals that eventually you will see profit..


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## Guest

the flat rate is a joke.
We do quite a bit for them. I bid everything and have never had one turned down.
I honestly like working for them. Nice, friendly coordinators...always pay on time, never charged back.
Just make sure you bid high, cause the always ask if you can do it for *** less. I always drop the price about 5 percent and they are happy.


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## Guest

barefootlc said:


> the flat rate is a joke.
> We do quite a bit for them. I bid everything and have never had one turned down.
> I honestly like working for them. Nice, friendly coordinators...always pay on time, never charged back.
> Just make sure you bid high, cause the always ask if you can do it for *** less. I always drop the price about 5 percent and they are happy.


At this time their numbers are just too low to agree to. That is what they want us to do...agree...so I have to say no as I know I can not bring work orders in on time and under the numbers...Let's be real a 20 CYD TO with a one acre yard is worth at least $800 and they are requiring us to do it at $365???? no way can we make that work...
We are in a unique position in that we have a few realtor that keep us with work...Whe these nationals come calling we are able to say no...meet our pricing...after all this is OUR coverage area...
While I do understand the bid process...I can not agree to do something that I know will lose revenue for our company....Especially since our operating costs will rise just to have them insured...
However thank you as this is information I can tuck in my pocket and use down the road....aladayllcpropertypreservation.com


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## Guest

barefootlc said:


> the flat rate is a joke.
> We do quite a bit for them. I bid everything and have never had one turned down.
> I honestly like working for them. Nice, friendly coordinators...always pay on time, never charged back.
> Just make sure you bid high, cause the always ask if you can do it for *** less. I always drop the price about 5 percent and they are happy.


Barefoot, the minute they asked you to lower your bid, they turned down your original bid. 

You lower every bid approval by about 5%?

You may be leaving $$$$$ on the table for them. 

I don't care what business you're in, you should never have every bid approved. That happens for 2 reasons. One, you are priced to low to begin with OR two, they know they can drive you down based on past history. 

Trust me, NO should definately be a part of your business venacular. It absolutely is in theirs.

Just some thoughts / observations for what they're worth.


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## Guest

*Wine and dine???*

We did several orders for them a couple of months ago and they were all profitable because there was never over 3 cyds of debris present. When FNM takes these properties over it is a stipulation to the original servicer that there is not any debris (or very little). 
Our problem has been they move a property manager to a different area and BOOM no more work orders. Do I have to hire someone to call them each and every day to beg for work??? Or does anybody know who we can buy lunch for over there? :whistling


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## Gypsos

I have been working for them for about a year now. Right now all I do is grass cuts and monthly cleans. Occasionally I do a window boardup, cap wires, replace bulbs or take care of some other problem. Never had a problem with payment for these. 

However, cleanouts and initials are a different story. We would get a bid price approved, do the work and then the coordinator would reissue the work order with a lower price because, "she simply did not see that much work done in the pictures." We did eight jobs and then told her we did not want to work for her anymore.

Since then we have become a favored vendor by other coordinators for maintenance cuts and cleans and when we have been approached to do cleanouts I have made it clear that the price is not negotiable. It is either yes or no until we have done a few cleanouts and have been paid in full for them. 

So far it has all worked out well and we get a check once a month for the maintenance.


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## HollandPPC

Gypsos said:


> I have been working for them for about a year now. Right now all I do is grass cuts and monthly cleans. Occasionally I do a window boardup, cap wires, replace bulbs or take care of some other problem. Never had a problem with payment for these.
> 
> However, cleanouts and initials are a different story. We would get a bid price approved, do the work and then the coordinator would reissue the work order with a lower price because, "she simply did not see that much work done in the pictures." We did eight jobs and then told her we did not want to work for her anymore.
> 
> Since then we have become a favored vendor by other coordinators for maintenance cuts and cleans and when we have been approached to do cleanouts I have made it clear that the price is not negotiable. It is either yes or no until we have done a few cleanouts and have been paid in full for them.
> 
> So far it has all worked out well and we get a check once a month for the maintenance.


Best advice is make sure you get your JCR before you start any work.


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## Gypsos

I already had the JCR. She would issue a new one and got snotty when I called her out on it. So I told her I would not work for her any more and if any of my outstanding jobs suddenly got a new JCR issued I would place a lein on the house for the originally agreed upon amount.


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## HollandPPC

Gypsos said:


> I already had the JCR. She would issue a new one and got snotty when I called her out on it. So I told her I would not work for her any more and if any of my outstanding jobs suddenly got a new JCR issued I would place a lein on the house for the originally agreed upon amount.


Yeah I have never had that happen. I would tell your coordinator to get bent. They rotate coordinators so much I would not worry much. I can think of several coordinators I have told off, did not effect my work load to much.


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## Guest

happyturkeyday:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## Guest

Some of you guys need new insurance agents, because they are telling you bull.

The additional insured endoesrment has changed a lot since 1985, and what they are telling you is bull. And if they are charging you anything for a additional insured endorsment then it is time to find a new company if who you are endorsing is insured themselves.

Read the link below from the Associated General Contractors of America and do a web search for "contractor additional insured".

http://www.agc.org/galleries/conrm/White%20Paper%20-%20Finalriskmanagement.pdf


I posted about this a year or so ago for the misinformed. And read your own policy, does it not say if you hire subs that they must provide you with this type of endorsement. I haven't seen one yet that does not say this, at least on the west coast.


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## Guest

*Cyprexx QC Inspectors.....Will never take another work order again.*

I started taking work orders from Cyprexx about 4 years ago through one middle man and 80% of the time the properties were occupied. Today, Cyprexx is far worse than Safeguard with their QC reps. I am dealing with one property that I completed over 2 months ago (and have been paid for) where a QC inspector in California has been there 3 times and seems to find "new issues" on every visit instead of actually calling me out and doing his job the first time around. Mind you I have not received one monthly maintenance order for this property since the initial services were completed and the latest QC report clearly shows negligence caused by others entering the property. Cyprexx has trumped Safeguard in the "bitch of all bitches" category. Hell, I might even look at taking work from SG again......Cyprexx has become that incompetent! DO NOT TAKE WORK FROM CYPREXX......you'll be glad you didn't no matter how tough it might be in your zone.


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## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> Best advice is make sure you get your JCR before you start any work.


Absolutely!! We actually do quite a bit for them...and things go pretty smoothly. But, I won't do a thing without a JCR.

The coordinator thing does bug the crap out of me. We have had 3 in the last month. Our latest is a real joy to deal with.


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## Guest

barefootlc said:


> the flat rate is a joke.
> We do quite a bit for them. I bid everything and have never had one turned down.
> I honestly like working for them. Nice, friendly coordinators...always pay on time, never charged back.
> Just make sure you bid high, cause the always ask if you can do it for *** less. I always drop the price about 5 percent and they are happy.


I do the same thing with them(bidding).I like working with them more than FAS.


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## Guest

scuttlebutt has it that FAS has lost AHMI in addition to Chase and FM...
You may not have much from FAS....they also laid off 200 employees and "deactivated" 1500 vendors nationwide....:blink:


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## mtmtnman

Cleanupman said:


> scuttlebutt has it that FAS has lost AHMI in addition to Chase and FM...
> You may not have much from FAS....they also laid off 200 employees and "deactivated" 1500 vendors nationwide....:blink:



FAS is F-Ing up big time around here on BAC properties but BAC don't seem to care. There are a bunch of properties with 10-12" of snow on walks and drives. Nothing is getting plowed or shoveled. I'm considering calling the city on the ones in town and seeing if they will violate them for snow on the walks. While there is an ordinance i have never heard of anyone getting nailed but why not make FAS pay?? :laughing::laughing:


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## Guest

I'm waiting for my monthly propaganda newsletter.....
There is definitely trouble in paradise....
My source is one of the lay-offs...
a call for a violation is always good...go lay down in the snow take a photo of the "slip" and make the call!!!!!


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## BPWY

mtmtnman said:


> FAS is F-Ing up big time around here on BAC properties but BAC don't seem to care.







BAC has never cared. If they did care, they would not have the grade A screw ups called Mid A working for them.


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## Guest

The only work I have seen from FAS is Fannie mae this year! I hope there hurting really bad. Pay back for all of use they have screwed:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Guest

Has anyone herd of commercial crews whats there reputation CommercialCraws.com


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## Guest

Looks/sounds like the new kids on the block...


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## Guest

You got that right. No appreciation, no loyalty to long time vendors. They will cut your bill and then threaten to put negative information in there computer system if you complain.


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## Guest

We worked for Cyprexx for almost four years in Virginia. THey move the coordinators around and the coordinators in this area now are the worst yet. VA Managers are BFF with girlfriend of owner and they let you know that and they do what they want. They have had long time vendors leave because of the way they are treated by management. Have a hard time getting paid sometimes. I saw post about something that they did to a vendor that was disgusting. They might have crossed the line on that one and legal action might be filed.


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## Guest

They are cutting people too much now. Hard to make any money.


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## Guest

sirbrad said:


> They are cutting people too much now. Hard to make any money.


One of our business associates handles Cyprexx....
He refusses to lower his fees. He is barely breaking even right now...
He was threatened with a cut in workload...
He told them...hey you've only sent me tyhree properties this month...you're already doing that!!!!!!


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## Guest

We did work for them for four years and our company along with 5 other locals here refused any more work from them. The coordinators there are unaccountable to anybody and they treat the vendors like the trash they want removed. We got tired of it. Fanniemae is getting wind of it and they are looking into some complaints against them.


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## Guest

sirbrad said:


> We did work for them for four years and our company along with 5 other locals here refused any more work from them. The coordinators there are unaccountable to anybody and they treat the vendors like the trash they want removed. We got tired of it. Fanniemae is getting wind of it and they are looking into some complaints against them.


I have worked for them for years and most of the coorditores I get a long fine with.But then again I only talk to them by e-mail, as do with most I work for.I wouldn`t get anything done due the amount of calls. Only one I`ll answer phone for are my realtors and of course the boss(wife):laughing:.


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