# Safeguard taking over AMS work here.....



## mtmtnman

Since the Hitler moderator banned me for 3 months over yonder for calling him out about enforcing NOT discussing pricing because it's an "UNWRITTEN" rule i cannot post in the AMS thread there. Here is my take on it. I CANNOT make any money with Safeguard on Fannie properties. Most of my properties are rural and 75% are cash for keys with NO DEBRIS. 

#1. I pay out on average $150 for cleaning to my cleaning people and Safeguard pays 120 after discount. LOSS!!

#2. $64 Net for an acre up to 12"????? ROTFLMAO!! LOSS!!

#3. $144 Net for an acre up to 36"????? Friggen NUTS!!!!

#4 $28 Net for up to a 75' driveway up to 12" deep snow??? Doesn't pay to leave my driveway! 

I much prefer a flat rate. At least i'm not going backwards! I would need 12 Cu Yds of debris MINIMUM in EVERY house with Safeguard to compare to the flat rate i had negotiated with AMS. Granted i was higher than what you guys in Michigan are being quoted but we are in a MUCH harder to cover state. There is also MUCH MORE COMPUTER TIME! Figure 30-45 minutes MINIMUM for every Safeguard initial upload and at least 10 minutes for a routine. AMS takes 5-10 minutes tops for an initial and less than 5 for a routine. Next the expense of E&O which AMS does not require, $3,0000 per year for me. Finally the zones are all screwed up. The Safeguard zone i am in is over 100 miles top to bottom and 80 miles across. I could potentially drive 100 miles round trip for 1 routine!! All around i don't know how anyone makes any money on Safeguard REO's............


If you Michigan guys are getting what i have heard:
$325 for 35cuyd or less
$95 for janitorial
$80 up to one acre cut. (BTW, if the grass is tall, AMS WILL negotiate) 

You will need more than 9 cu yds in every home to be better with Safeguard.


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## hammerhead

Wow for those prices I would go back to being a stay home dad.


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## GTX63

Safeguard is very proud of their prices.


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## GTX63

mtmtnman said:


> Since the Hitler moderator banned me for 3 months over yonder for calling him out about enforcing NOT discussing pricing because it's an "UNWRITTEN" rule i cannot post in the AMS thread there.


So they threw you in the hole huh? Cool Hand Luke. My money says you can down the 50 hard boiled eggs in an hour.


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## BPWY

I've done one or 10 Fannie's for SG.


12 yrds ONLY of debris, whats that???????????????????????


25 to 40 in every one is common. Make a few bux there, but then the initial clean is a killer.
Because none of the houses were even remotely live in condition. 
I've had ones that after 16 man hrs of cleaning might have been clean enough for merry maids to come in and spend 2 or 3 days getting it move in clean.


Winter/spring of 2011 I had enough Fannie work from SG that it allowed me to cash money around $12,000 in lawn equipment.
Some new, some used.


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## SwiftRes

On the REO side with SG it's about using the allowables. AMS said they have $100 to approve on the spot, everything else needs bid. SG typically has a lot of pre-approved items so you don't have to go back to the property a half dozen times.


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## mtmtnman

SwiftRes said:


> On the REO side with SG it's about using the allowables. AMS said they have $100 to approve on the spot, everything else needs bid. SG typically has a lot of pre-approved items so you don't have to go back to the property a half dozen times.



AMS has $500 in allowables. I would say 75-80% of the Fannie work i had was houses less than 10 years old in very good condition. Had 5 in July and only 1 had more than a bag of garbage. It had 5 cu. yds...............


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## SwiftRes

Hmm. They told me $100 total and then anything over that need bid. I almost never see low CYD houses. 20-40 is very common.


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## mtmtnman

SwiftRes said:


> Hmm. They told me $100 total and then anything over that need bid. I almost never see low CYD houses. 20-40 is very common.



Most here that are not cash for keys are conveyance condition when i get them.

On a side note, Safeguard is taking a 25% discount on REO so my grass pricing above is wrong. They also have have hired one contractor (AKA a regional) to cover all the grass re-cuts in one of the hardest to cover states in the country. The regional will then take another 20-25% leaving peanuts left. ($39- $42 for an acre???????????) QC is going to have a hayday with Safeguard and the brokers will not put up with it. Personally i give them less than 3 months to fall apart here. Hell is Sentinel is having a hard time getting people to cut 1/4 acre for $25 how in the hell is Safeguard going to get someone to cut an acre for $14 more???

Brokers also want to be kept in the loop and Safeguard is NOTORIOUS for doing there thing and not telling anyone. For example, All boilers here ARE NOT TO BE WINTERIZED per the brokers, Heat is to be left on. Nice blinds and curtain rods are to stay. Paint that is in good condition is to stay for touch ups if the home has recently been painted, Building materials are to be left if they match what is in the house IE: trim and ceramic tile. All of this makes repairs easier. I have had more than one nice house that took me 2-3 trips to Sherwin Williams to match paint because another contractor has tossed out leftover matching paint. FNMA has told the brokers they have the final say and i work VERY close with the brokers to get these homes sold.


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## Craigslist Hack

We do a decent volume with AMS and a few other nationals. These prices you guys are quoting are insane.

My worst paying client is paying $45.00 for a routine cut and $125.00 for initials. I think some people out there need to learn to say no.


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## homeline

really dobbie $125.00 for an intial g.c shoot me that contact the scrubs out here only pay $40.00 im in cali i wont be stepping on your toes also i see alot of guys paying a % to work whats that all about ? why do you have to pay a % to work ?


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## GTX63

They charge a percentage to work because they can.


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## Craigslist Hack

homeline said:


> really dobbie $125.00 for an intial g.c shoot me that contact the scrubs out here only pay $40.00 im in cali i wont be stepping on your toes also i see alot of guys paying a % to work whats that all about ? why do you have to pay a % to work ?


The clients pay based on what the banks pay and the more properties a bank has the less the pay. 

You should read the HUD guidelines and determine what the grass cuts you do pay. Once you have an understanding of what the bank is paying and you know what you are getting figure out who is getting the rest and why.

We work every day towards climbing the ladder so that we are not doing grass cuts for $30.00. It all starts with the banks.


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## Buster9121

*Mtmtnman 100% right*

I work in the new York area (Brooklyn ,Bronx,queens) and they want to pay 20 dollars per cut at the end of the day I would owe them money 
Gas tolls insurance labor tools supplies etc..... Who comes up with these prices and who the HELL is doing them and making money?


I called national asset protection agency the other day to see if they were looking for vendors and they said we would send an application. When I opened the price list they offered I almost had a heartache 

They said to remove debris they were offering 12.50 cubic yard LMAO. A 20 yard dumpster here alone is 700-800 

Sorry about the ranting but I am frustrated 

We all need to stick together and tell these idiots find someone else


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## Craigslist Hack

Buster9121 said:


> I work in the new York area (Brooklyn ,Bronx,queens) and they want to pay 20 dollars per cut at the end of the day I would owe them money
> Gas tolls insurance labor tools supplies etc..... Who comes up with these prices and who the HELL is doing them and making money?
> 
> 
> I called national asset protection agency the other day to see if they were looking for vendors and they said we would send an application. When I opened the price list they offered I almost had a heartache
> 
> They said to remove debris they were offering 12.50 cubic yard LMAO. A 20 yard dumpster here alone is 700-800
> 
> Sorry about the ranting but I am frustrated
> 
> We all need to stick together and tell these idiots find someone else


You are right about banding together for sure.

We NEVER use a dumpster for a trash out. They just slow us down.


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## BPWY

In some situations they are the best thing.

Most of the time they are too costly.


I did have one back in April that the cost of the 30 yrd was reasonable. 
With 110 yrds of debris having to load it all on a trailer and then run to the dump and unload, come 
back and reload etc etc etc............ would have taken a lot longer than 3 dumpsters and one load 
of scrap steel for recycle.


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## Craigslist Hack

BPWY said:


> In some situations they are the best thing.
> 
> Most of the time they are too costly.
> 
> 
> I did have one back in April that the cost of the 30 yrd was reasonable.
> With 110 yrds of debris having to load it all on a trailer and then run to the dump and unload, come
> back and reload etc etc etc............ would have taken a lot longer than 3 dumpsters and one load
> of scrap steel for recycle.


I never separate out scrap. I know I should it just seems like it takes SOO much time for such little profit. I have always felt like we would make more just going to the next job faster.

Dumpsters around here are expensive but the real problem is waiting for the company to come empty them and all of the coordination involved. I normally just double up my crews and use multiple dump trailers. Sometimes the dump fees can be as much as a dumpster would have been but the time I save offsets it. I am sure every area is different though.


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## oteroproperties

Doberman Properties said:


> I never separate out scrap. I know I should it just seems like it takes SOO much time for such little profit. I have always felt like we would make more just going to the next job faster.
> 
> Dumpsters around here are expensive but the real problem is waiting for the company to come empty them and all of the coordination involved. I normally just double up my crews and use multiple dump trailers. Sometimes the dump fees can be as much as a dumpster would have been but the time I save offsets it. I am sure every area is different though.


We dont use dump trailers at all. course most of our work is presale so we dont take much debris. did a stint in reo when NFR got AHMSI (Homeward) safeguard does the reo for them now but i still get presale stuff. anyway while i was doing reo i was using a dumpster company and i was paying $325 flat for a 20yd, $375 for a 30yd. after doing the math i decided that it just didnt make sense to lug a dump trailer around in place of my equipment trailer. besides we could have the dumpster dropped in 24hrs and pulled same day so it was easiler to do more jobs if we could use our equipment trailers to complete jobs and the dump company to handle debris. 

one day recently a 4 man crew (including myself) with one truck and trailer did 2 reo's (about 30yrds each) and 5 initial secures (presale) without putting a single bit of debris on my trailer (if you seen my trailer you'd know why i appreciate that). if i had a dump trailer it would have involved too many trips and crews to get the same amount of work done. by the time you factor fuel for at another truck to make dump runs and pay for the guys, plus the other work that might not have gotten done it was well worth it. i've repeated that model about 10 times in my brief reo stint and it worked nicely. however, screw reo, i hated it and will not be doing it ever again.


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## mtmtnman

oteroproperties said:


> however, screw reo, i hated it and will not be doing it ever again.



I feel the same about presale work. To much risk involved. I have NEVER run itno a digruntled homeowner on an REO but ran into plenty on presale. REO is cakewalk and no where near the amount of paperwork.........


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## oteroproperties

mtmtnman said:


> I feel the same about presale work. To much risk involved. I have NEVER run itno a digruntled homeowner on an REO but ran into plenty on presale. REO is cakewalk and no where near the amount of paperwork.........


I started 10 years ago doing pre sale so its all ive ever done Been sued once. It sucks but seems to be part of the business. I don't like all the detail Involved in Reo.


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## mtmtnman

oteroproperties said:


> I started 10 years ago doing pre sale so its all ive ever done Been sued once. It sucks but seems to be part of the business. I don't like all the detail Involved in Reo.



I believe there is a hell of a lot more detail in Presale work. Once it goes REO a realtor is involved and you only have to do what they feel is necessary. No bidding everything under the sun to see what will stick like in presale work.


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## PropPresPro

mtmtnman said:


> I feel the same about presale work. To much risk involved. I have NEVER run itno a digruntled homeowner on an REO but ran into plenty on presale. REO is cakewalk and no where near the amount of paperwork.........


Are you trying to tell me that NOBODY comes out to greet you half way up their driveway with a 1911 in their hand? Where's the fun in that?!?


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## mtmtnman

PropPresPro said:


> Are you trying to tell me that NOBODY comes out to greet you half way up their driveway with a 1911 in their hand? Where's the fun in that?!?


LOL!! I don't miss coming out of a crawlspace doing a wint and finding a guy standing there asking WTF...............


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## BPWY

Doberman Properties said:


> I never separate out scrap. I know I should it just seems like it takes SOO much time for such little profit. I have always felt like we would make more just going to the next job faster.
> 
> Dumpsters around here are expensive but the real problem is waiting for the company to come empty them and all of the coordination involved. I normally just double up my crews and use multiple dump trailers. Sometimes the dump fees can be as much as a dumpster would have been but the time I save offsets it. I am sure every area is different though.






Some disposal facilities are more progressive than others.


The one I referenced for that job DID NOT allow metal in with the trash.

Any of the municipal facilities that I go to all have signs saying you are supposed to recycle.


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## Freddie

Doberman Properties said:


> I never separate out scrap. I know I should it just seems like it takes SOO much time for such little profit. I have always felt like we would make more just going to the next job faster.
> 
> Dumpsters around here are expensive but the real problem is waiting for the company to come empty them and all of the coordination involved. I normally just double up my crews and use multiple dump trailers. Sometimes the dump fees can be as much as a dumpster would have been but the time I save offsets it. I am sure every area is different though.


i used to think the same way, i would have a metal man come and pick up my scrap at the job site and i just figured it was saving me time and effort but in reality i was losing a lot of money.

so now at my storage yard i have 1 dedicated scrap metal trailer and its park behind my main trailer so when i get back for the day i just toss the small pieces of scrap in the trailer and it adds up quickly usually about $400-500 per load (not including copper)


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## oteroproperties

Freddie said:


> i used to think the same way, i would have a metal man come and pick up my scrap at the job site and i just figured it was saving me time and effort but in reality i was losing a lot of money.
> 
> so now at my storage yard i have 1 dedicated scrap metal trailer and its park behind my main trailer so when i get back for the day i just toss the small pieces of scrap in the trailer and it adds up quickly usually about $400-500 per load (not including copper)


I used to let my brother take it but now I do the same thing. A dedicated bid. Offsets a lot of cost. Company picnic is what we've been using it for. You get a full write off for that!!


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## Buster9121

Lol we make more scrapping then they pay is for the job


Wow now that's pathetic


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## Craigslist Hack

There is some interesting stuff in this thread. Thanks for the different opinions.

We can't make the dumpster thing work in this market but our dump fees rarely run over $120.00. So I would have to make 3 trips to offset the cost of one dumpster and we haul our mowers in the dump trailer so we don't need two trailers.

We have been selling some of the stuff we trash out on ebay or Craigslist and saving that money to give Christmas Bonuses. I should probably start doing that with scrap as well.


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## mtmtnman

*Screwguard uploads.......*

Damn i'm so glad i don't have to futz with Screwguard. The one contractor i know who works for them told me it took 1hr 20 min to upload 140 BEFORE photos for a 150 yd trash out. Probably took at least that long to take the photos with the stupid poster board requirements. Now she'll have the "action" shots including empty trailer, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full photos with "trailer clearly marked" as well as just as many after photos to upload not to mention a buttload of forms to fill out. After this comes the risk of chargeback. All the hours behind the computer screen are NOT worth it IMHO...... AMS might have paid a little less on one this big but i would have made it up on the ones with no debris. I also NEVER got charged back from them and the upload would have been 10 minutes max. It will be interesting at the end of the month what their averages will end up being between AMS and Screwguard. They have had quite a few with just a handful of debris already that payed peanuts so i think it will be nearly a wash.....


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## GTX63

Your right on brother!


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## Freddie

So am I getting this right, you have to take a picture with a poster board next to the debris to show its actually a cubic yard for the same cost as before?


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## mtmtnman

Freddie said:


> So am I getting this right, you have to take a picture with a poster board next to the debris to show its actually a cubic yard for the same cost as before?


As far as i was told, you pile up the debris, put the poster board next to it and write the amount you think it is on the poster board. What a crock!


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## Craigslist Hack

mtmtnman said:


> As far as i was told, you pile up the debris, put the poster board next to it and write the amount you think it is on the poster board. What a crock!



What? Seriously?

Dude that is double tripl handling the debris. I am out to work for a living not play jenga with other peoples crap!


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## BPWY

Doberman Properties said:


> What? Seriously?
> 
> Dude that is double tripl handling the debris. I am out to work for a living not play jenga with other peoples crap!





Exactly, I'm not going to pile it up like that.

As a 1x vendor for them they've never required that of me.
If/when they do I'll tell them to get bent.


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## PropPresPro

mtmtnman said:


> As far as i was told, you pile up the debris, put the poster board next to it and write the amount you think it is on the poster board. What a crock!


Yep, true story.
I ran into a SG vendor today at a new FMac REO (he just finished mowing when I showed up, I thanked him & took an after pic for my weekly mow on the property!), I commented about the spray paint marks every 3' in his trailer and he confirmed that that is a SG thing along with the dry erase board noting CuYardage in each room. Said he hates SG work, they have the most hoops to jump through and as a result, charge back more than any other company he works for.
No thank you!


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## mtmtnman

PropPresPro said:


> Yep, true story.
> I ran into a SG vendor today at a new FMac REO (he just finished mowing when I showed up, I thanked him & took an after pic for my weekly mow on the property!), I commented about the spray paint marks every 3' in his trailer and he confirmed that that is a SG thing along with the dry erase board noting CuYardage in each room. Said he hates SG work, they have the most hoops to jump through and as a result, charge back more than any other company he works for.
> No thank you!



He can't be making much $$$ with the antiquated lawn equipment he has. This lawn was 14,000 Sq Ft and took my brother an hour to complete.....


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## Freddie

mtmtnman said:


> He can't be making much $$$ with the antiquated lawn equipment he has. This lawn was 14,000 Sq Ft and took my brother an hour to complete.....


wow that looks great!

nice gear man-


in the bay area there wouldn't be any need for equipt like that, i would probably get to use it once every year


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## GTX63

Freddie said:


> So am I getting this right, you have to take a picture with a poster board next to the debris to show its actually a cubic yard for the same cost as before?


Safeguard Reps have all sorts of handy tips and shortcuts for you to be profitable and successfull in the world of REO. But then, what were they before they were reps?


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## BPWY

Most likely on the prep line at McDonalds.


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## Buster9121

*Lmao*

I hear it from vendors all the time how this and that company sucks to work for but what are they doing WORKING for that same sh....ty company 
It is up to us to tell these companies sorry but go hire a monkey to do your jobs. Eventually they will open there eyes and realize they need us but untill then some guys just want to get abused

Again we should stick together


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## mtmtnman

Freddie said:


> wow that looks great!
> 
> nice gear man-
> 
> 
> in the bay area there wouldn't be any need for equipt like that, i would probably get to use it once every year



That is an average size lawn for us. I don't think i have carted the pushmower a dozen times this summer.....


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## mtmtnman

We'll i figured out how the safeguard contractor makes money. The just finished a house that was a deed in leu which i had secured 3 months ago. The was NO DEBRIS or i would not have signed off on it. Anyways they cut the overgrown lot and tossed the clippings over the fence onto a farmers hay field. They also took down $1000-$1200 of nearly new 2" wide high quality Plantation style wood mini blinds. That probably equaled 2 yards lol! Agent is PISSED! The contractor never called him to get permission to remove them. Per FNMA the broker has final say on these type of things. There was NO reason to remove them. They where hardly dirty! Funny the rest of the house is FILTHY! What a half assed job.................


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