# Negative Feedback regarding posting Here



## Craigslist Hack

We have had negative feedback from a few clients for posting here. It was almost PRESSURE to keep my thoughts to my self. 

We cannot name names at this point but they were surprisingly large nationals. I still need those clients but do feel it is unfair of them to ask me not to communicate with other contractors.

Has anyone else ever had this type of feedback?


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## SwiftRes

I haven't, but a couple here have changed names I know to be more anonymous.


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## hammerhead

Last I knew we still had free speech in this country


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## Valley

Talk to Admin and see if he can change nic here, then change some of your info in the profile.

Most times With this forum script VBulletin , you can change the nic in the Admin panel and it will convert all your post to your new nic.


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## Sicoupe06

I don't see why we still can't use nick names lol work around the system.


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## GTX63

Doberman Properties said:


> We have had negative feedback from a few clients for posting here. It was almost PRESSURE to keep my thoughts to my self. I still need those clients but do feel it is unfair of them to ask me not to communicate with other contractors.
> 
> Has anyone else ever had this type of feedback?


Can you quote the verbiage they used?


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## david

*hi*

What are they afraid of, the truth:thumbup:


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## PropPresPro

Doberman Properties said:


> We have had negative feedback from a few clients for posting here. It was almost PRESSURE to keep my thoughts to my self.
> 
> We cannot name names at this point but they were surprisingly large nationals. I still need those clients but do feel it is unfair of them to ask me not to communicate with other contractors.
> 
> Has anyone else ever had this type of feedback?


 
Did you actually hear this from more than one client?


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## JW34

I can see why (most Nat'ls) wouldn't want you to share truthful opinions. If they can keep the carrot dangling just a little while longer for those who haven't figured out how cut-throat the preservation business has become they can still sucker a few into doing things like $7 inspections, $40 winterizations etc. You know, things your Mother would tell you to be ashamed of yourself for..


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## BPWY

Doberman Properties said:


> We have had negative feedback from a few clients for posting here. It was almost PRESSURE to keep my thoughts to my self.
> 
> We cannot name names at this point but they were surprisingly large nationals. I still need those clients but do feel it is unfair of them to ask me not to communicate with other contractors.
> 
> Has anyone else ever had this type of feedback?





To answer your question, YES. 

Not me personally but a close friend. And like was already mentioned several folks have changed their site handles because of such things.

If you want to change your name to some thing anonymous PM Juan M. 
Hes one of the admins and will handle that for you without further ado.


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## BRADSConst

Doberman Properties said:


> We have had negative feedback from a few clients for posting here. It was almost PRESSURE to keep my thoughts to my self.
> 
> We cannot name names at this point but they were surprisingly large nationals. I still need those clients but do feel it is unfair of them to ask me not to communicate with other contractors.
> 
> Has anyone else ever had this type of feedback?


Yes, I have personally been told that all my posts were being read. I don't work for that regional anymore and even when I did, I didn't say anything that wasn't true.

DISCLAIMER: I am to the point where I don't need any nationals or regionals anymore.


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## BPWY

BRADSConst said:


> DISCLAIMER: I am to the point where I don't need any nationals or regionals anymore.





Aint it a good feeling?


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Can you quote the verbiage they used?


First of all both conversations were with managers not my day to day contacts, and both took place by phone call not email. It was interesting how both calls came in the same day.

In the first conversation I was told *"Your web postings sound like a guy that doesn't like what he is doing. That kind of thing could be interpreted in many ways. If I were a small company I would keep my opinions and issues to myself so that one day I might become a big company."*

The second conversation with a different national was softer in tone. *"We see you are active online with Preservation Communities. Please keep in mind that everything on the internet lasts forever and can be seen by any one. When you signed up with our company you signed a confidentiality agreement. We can't ask you not to put things on the internet but we do ask that you honor all of our written agreements that you signed" *

I never knew this was a community? I thought it was a message board?

Obviously I need to change our name. I don't want my opinion affecting others at this company. There are others here that could be affected by my opinions.


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## PropPresPro

Doberman Properties said:


> First of all both conversations were with managers not my day to day contacts, and both took place by phone call not email. It was interesting how both calls came in the same day.
> 
> In the first conversation I was told *"Your web postings sound like a guy that doesn't like what he is doing. That kind of thing could be interpreted in many ways. If I were a small company I would keep my opinions and issues to myself so that one day I might become a big company."*
> 
> The second conversation with a different national was softer in tone. *"We see you are active online with Preservation Communities. Please keep in mind that everything on the internet lasts forever and can be seen by any one. When you signed up with our company you signed a confidentiality agreement. We can't ask you not to put things on the internet but we do ask that you honor all of our written agreements that you signed" *
> 
> I never knew this was a community? I thought it was a message board?
> 
> Obviously I need to change our name. I don't want my opinion affecting others at this company. There are others here that could be affected by my opinions.


 
When you turn on the lights, the cockroaches scurry.

All the National and Regional Order Mills that lurk here should join in in our conversations, after all, without us they would all go bankrupt. You'd think that they would WANT to maintain healthy relationships with the contractors that make them their money.

BTW, I've also had the "small company, big company" speech from a company I've dealt with.


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## Racerx

Have'nt been threatened but I have had some strange coincedences where directly after I mentioned / posted something it was brought up within 24hrs by the interested parties :whistling2:, hence the switch in username when I came over from CT...


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## BPWY

PropPresPro said:


> When you turn on the lights, the cockroaches scurry.
> 
> All the National and Regional Order Mills that lurk here should join in in our conversations, after all, without us they would all go bankrupt. You'd think that they would WANT to maintain healthy relationships with the contractors that make them their money.







They know their business model is unethical at best. 

The longer they can keep folks in the dark and make just a few more bux from the craigslist hacks the happier they are.

I am sure the fear of what the HuffPo writer is going to dig up and the fear of the IRS cracking down on mis-classified employees have got 
to have some of them wondering in the dark corners of their minds when the gravy train will come to an end. 
They've got to know that its soon and are working desperately as the clock runs down to midnight to pad their pockets just a little more.

Silencing those in the know and/or the experienced contractors will help them do just that..... they think.


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## GTX63

Everytime you mention your clients by their names, it ups the chances your post will be read by the noob doing a google search on that company.


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## Racerx

Craigslist Hack said:


> We have had negative feedback from a few clients for posting here. It was almost PRESSURE to keep my thoughts to my self.
> 
> We cannot name names at this point but they were surprisingly large nationals. I still need those clients but do feel it is unfair of them to ask me not to communicate with other contractors.
> 
> Has anyone else ever had this type of feedback?


gotta change your avatar too..LOl (the new name):thumbup:


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## Wannabe

GTX63 said:


> Everytime you mention your clients by their names, it ups the chances your post will be read by the noob doing a google search on that company.


Really?

MCS suc*s
Safeguard suc*s
Cyprexx suc*s


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## Craigslist Hack

I'm now in the witless protection program. The contractor formerly known as.


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## 68W30

Okay I saw this a while back coming on and growing I have changed my " handle " thanks BP . Modeled it after my friends Favorite Car, GTX Im 68W30 ( 442 Olds ) in the same Vein okay they can say you may be bad mouthing them , But are You ? Does there contract state that any and all legal actions have to be in a court in THEIR state ? if it does ,, dont you get the same rights , to have that same day in court in your home town ? Isnt Bullying the buzz ?hasnt it been suggested that we list and or make a Sticky of companys we would rather not work for post ? Isnt there a guild we can join to protect us collectively ? ,,,,,,,,, Im actually embarrassed that i did change my handle to get work , it kind of puts me in a basement ,,, in the dark ,, not being a GC , and not running my own company I will and have been happy to state good quality interaction when it happened and who it happened with 

Signing off 
Michael W. Biasi 
25 Coilumbia Ave 
Middletown NY 10940

BTS Property Preservatiom 

PS go pound salt safe guard and Fas 

Kudos MCS 

the siblings are butt suckers 

and I like the handle CL Hack


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## GTX63

CLHack..lol.


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## BPWY

68 don't hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel. lol


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## Craigslist Hack

If it were just me I would have left things as they were and became more vocal. This is a company however and other peoples incomes and livelihoods depend on my ability to play well with others. I enjoy a good pissing match on occasion.:whistling2:


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## Cleanupman

I AM NOT AFRAID.......

Anyone wish to back door me with information I will keep confidentiality and go after the blokes that have chosen to infringe on the first amendment....
This is the exact information I have been compiling....

This is how our company works....if you are not a lender don't talk to me ....

So I have nothing to lose....you may send information to [email protected]


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## SkilledS2000

I also didn't use my CT name, since I have my company logo and business name as my SN. 

I found it funny I received 2 emails asking me to sign the Vendor Acknowledgement Form and I will not do any such thing. It's a shame that I'm done with them. 

I'm glad fellow contractors are starting to stand up to these hack companies.


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## 68W30

> I'm glad fellow contractors are starting to stand up to these hack companies.


thank the cleanupman :notworthy:

he got it rolling ,, i just kick a sweet spot when its apparent


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## PropPresPro

Wannabe said:


> Really?
> 
> MCS suc*s
> Safeguard suc*s
> Cyprexx suc*s


Nice, but your list seems to be incomplete.


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## Freddie

PropPresPro said:


> Nice, but your list seems to be incomplete.


Who also sucks:

Ams
South pacific inspections 
Cvms
Scvms
Higgins and lovitt


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## Cleanupman

Freddie said:


> Who also sucks:
> 
> Ams
> South pacific inspections
> Cvms
> Scvms
> Higgins and lovitt


This list can go on forever.......and ever...................and
and ever...................................................................


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## BPWY

For sure.


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## Dnmceo17

*dont be scared!!!*

 It's FREEDOM of Speach!!
Im not changing a thing!!! I wish a MUG would !!!! who do they think they are its bad engough they dont pay us what we are worth but then you gonna tell me to not talk about the truth or they can come after me!!!!! Who told you this Say the company !!!! Child Please!!!!

Lets all stick together on this and dont punk out:yes:!!!! they can't fight us all!!!

I'm Just saying!!:whistling2:
Dnm out of Philly and to all the company's "TRY ME!!!"


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## Splinterpicker

Wannabe said:


> Really?
> 
> MCS suc*s
> Safeguard suc*s
> Cyprexx suc*s


 you Forgot FAS IS a MInger


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## Craigslist Hack

Dnmceo17 said:


> It's FREEDOM of Speach!!
> Im not changing a thing!!! I wish a MUG would !!!! who do they think they are its bad engough they dont pay us what we are worth but then you gonna tell me to not talk about the truth or they can come after me!!!!! Who told you this Say the company !!!! Child Please!!!!
> 
> Lets all stick together on this and dont punk out:yes:!!!! they can't fight us all!!!
> 
> I'm Just saying!!:whistling2:
> Dnm out of Philly and to all the company's "TRY ME!!!"


That was my initial reaction as well. Then I spoke with my team and realized that my anger would hurt others. Our office girl NEEDS this job our field crews NEED their paychecks, I NEED these Nationals at the moment. We are focusing more than ever on other types of work but currently this is still our main source of stability. We actually make more money doing other work but our preservation work is the most consistent.


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## Cleanupman

Craigslist Hack said:


> That was my initial reaction as well. Then I spoke with my team and realized that my anger would hurt others. Our office girl NEEDS this job our field crews NEED their paychecks, I NEED these Nationals at the moment. We are focusing more than ever on other types of work but currently this is still our main source of stability. We actually make more money doing other work but our preservation work is the most consistent.


all the more reason you should have a look at what the NPPG is doing...they are positioning themselves for the upcoming changes in this industry and could use quality members.
Something that every respectable Contractor should consider...They have actually received contact from the secretary of HUD office so their voice is being heard oin a positive way....

Just sayin...


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## Craigslist Hack

Cleanupman said:


> all the more reason you should have a look at what the NPPG is doing...they are positioning themselves for the upcoming changes in this industry and could use quality members.
> Something that every respectable Contractor should consider...They have actually received contact from the secretary of HUD office so their voice is being heard oin a positive way....
> 
> Just sayin...


Might not be a bad idea. I am open to anything at this point.


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## Driftweed

Ok I never post here... But:

You run a contracting company that is VERY EASY to cinvert to the non bank field. and it literally pays more. even the slummiest of slumlords pays more than these guys with LESS HASSLE! 

So you got employees, go make freakin sales. To sit around and be bullied proves 1 things Laziness. A lack of motivation or preparation on your part as a business owner to do right by your empliyees and strive for more work to keep them busy. If any client bullies you, & you let it happen, then you are admitting to your employees that they are in a dead end job with no chance if growth.

Fire them all and minimize the suffering.

It also proves you are nothing more than a whiner. You want to stop lying gossip? Confront the source. First to blink loses. 

p.s. changing your name doesn't hide the original name when quoted.

This goes for any business owner,


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## BRADSConst

Driftweed said:


> Ok I never post here... But:
> 
> You run a contracting company that is VERY EASY to cinvert to the non bank field. and it literally pays more. even the slummiest of slumlords pays more than these guys with LESS HASSLE!
> 
> So you got employees, go make freakin sales. To sit around and be bullied proves 1 things Laziness. A lack of motivation or preparation on your part as a business owner to do right by your empliyees and strive for more work to keep them busy. If any client bullies you, & you let it happen, then you are admitting to your employees that they are in a dead end job with no chance if growth.
> 
> Fire them all and minimize the suffering.
> 
> It also proves you are nothing more than a whining biatch. You want to stop lying gossip? Confront the source. First to blink loses.
> 
> p.s. changing your name doesn't hide the original name when quoted.
> 
> This goes for any business owner, not just you dob... I mean craigslust hack.


If you don't post here often, and even if you did, don't come in attacking anyone calling them a "whining biatch". That is the quickest way to get asked to leave and go back to CT.


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## Craigslist Hack

Driftweed said:


> Ok I never post here... But:
> 
> You run a contracting company that is VERY EASY to cinvert to the non bank field. and it literally pays more. even the slummiest of slumlords pays more than these guys with LESS HASSLE!
> 
> So you got employees, go make freakin sales. To sit around and be bullied proves 1 things Laziness. A lack of motivation or preparation on your part as a business owner to do right by your empliyees and strive for more work to keep them busy. If any client bullies you, & you let it happen, then you are admitting to your employees that they are in a dead end job with no chance if growth.
> 
> Fire them all and minimize the suffering.
> 
> It also proves you are nothing more than a whiner. You want to stop lying gossip? Confront the source. First to blink loses.
> 
> p.s. changing your name doesn't hide the original name when quoted.
> 
> This goes for any business owner,


All input is valuable even if we do not completely agree. Thanks for your .02!:thumbup:


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## wmhlc

I 100 agree with you. If you can't make money working for regionals then quit. If you can't make money on the rates some of the nationals pay then you shouldn't be running a business. If you cant turn a profit whats the point of buying yourself a job.




Driftweed said:


> Ok I never post here... But:
> 
> You run a contracting company that is VERY EASY to cinvert to the non bank field. and it literally pays more. even the slummiest of slumlords pays more than these guys with LESS HASSLE!
> 
> So you got employees, go make freakin sales. To sit around and be bullied proves 1 things Laziness. A lack of motivation or preparation on your part as a business owner to do right by your empliyees and strive for more work to keep them busy. If any client bullies you, & you let it happen, then you are admitting to your employees that they are in a dead end job with no chance if growth.
> 
> Fire them all and minimize the suffering.
> 
> It also proves you are nothing more than a whiner. You want to stop lying gossip? Confront the source. First to blink loses.
> 
> p.s. changing your name doesn't hide the original name when quoted.
> 
> This goes for any business owner, .


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## Craigslist Hack

wmhlc said:


> I 100 agree with you. If you can't make money working for regionals then quit. If you can't make money on the rates some of the nationals pay then you shouldn't be running a business. If you cant turn a profit whats the point of buying yourself a job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Driftweed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I never post here... But:
> 
> You run a contracting company that is VERY EASY to cinvert to the non bank field. and it literally pays more. even the slummiest of slumlords pays more than these guys with LESS HASSLE!
> 
> So you got employees, go make freakin sales. To sit around and be bullied proves 1 things Laziness. A lack of motivation or preparation on your part as a business owner to do right by your empliyees and strive for more work to keep them busy. If any client bullies you, & you let it happen, then you are admitting to your employees that they are in a dead end job with no chance if growth.
> 
> Fire them all and minimize the suffering.
> 
> It also proves you are nothing more than a whiner. You want to stop lying gossip? Confront the source. First to blink loses.
> 
> p.s. changing your name doesn't hide the original name when quoted.
> 
> This goes for any business owner,.
Click to expand...


The issue is more the chargebacks and the QC garbage along with estimating software ridiculous deadlines, and the push for whole state coverage.


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## Driftweed

I'm sorry, but when I see a respected contractor from my area of the country be bullied and cave into it, something needs said. That's right, I respected you (a.k.a hack). And so did alit of lurkers here. 

In the end, he backed down. I can only hope for his employees sake it was for the short-term. 

When you cave for whatever reason, it never is good. To me it defeats the entire purpose of owning a company. You might as well get a regular job.

I stand by what I say, because I know theres more fish out there. If I was ever approached like you were I would quickly alert that customer that my other customers would appreciate the new room in my schedule. 

Go ahead and attack me. I'm smart enough that bank never exceeds more than 20% of my workload. Something I learned to do from this very forum. I'm not "all-in" like a majority of you, & thats fine with me.


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## wmhlc

The chargeback issues I can see. I have been doing this for about 7 years. I have less than 2000 tototal in chargeback. Out of that number I would say 90% where my fault.

I think its more of an issue of people letting the nationals push them around. I don't work weekends and I work for Sg and they don't have any issues with that.

Again it goes back to if your client has those demands and you can't make a profit with them what's the point of having them be a client.

I think most guys are tired of working in your business when they should be working on their business


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## wmhlc

What don't you like about the estimating software? My net profit increased by 7% when I made the switch. I love it and it helps you train employees and it sets up a system to replace yourself as the owner.

Have you used an exacimate or similar program for more than a few days


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## BPWY

BRADSConst said:


> If you don't post here often, and even if you did, don't come in attacking anyone calling them a "whining biatch". That is the quickest way to get asked to leave and go back to CT.






What he said!


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## BPWY

Driftweed said:


> I'm sorry, but when I see a respected contractor from my area of the country be bullied and cave into it, something needs said. That's right, I respected you (a.k.a hack). And so did alit of lurkers here.
> 
> In the end, he backed down. I can only hope for his employees sake it was for the short-term.
> 
> When you cave for whatever reason, it never is good. To me it defeats the entire purpose of owning a company. You might as well get a regular job.
> 
> I stand by what I say, because I know theres more fish out there. If I was ever approached like you were I would quickly alert that customer that my other customers would appreciate the new room in my schedule.
> 
> Go ahead and attack me. I'm smart enough that bank never exceeds more than 20% of my workload. Something I learned to do from this very forum. I'm not "all-in" like a majority of you, & thats fine with me.




The problem wasn't that you said any thing, it was the words used.
The words used can be construed as a personal attack and trying to start a fight.


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## GTX63

Never read the posts with the insults included, and can't make judgements on CHacks business, but I'm not a hand in hand type of guy with regard to Nationals. My position here isn't to hone your skills in the trashouts, but to help others dilute their Preservation work with private customers. Easier to cut off the hand thats twisting your nads.


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## Driftweed

Wow! Whole lot of editing going on in this thread....

Look, i've already said that my remarks were aimed at more than 1 person. If you don't believe in the right to face your accuser....

I honestly do not care if you like what I say or not, but if you ask I'll man up and say it again. 

Please, if this site is for "anonymous trolls" who want to hide for fear of consequences of what they say.... proceed to edit. Be as good as "the enemy".

But if it's about accountability in what you say, don't edit people for blatantly calling out truth. We all have opinions, sorry mine doesn't jive.

Makes me curious how many other posts have been edited to suit your agenda. grow up and get out of your bubble....


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## BRADSConst

Driftweed

I suggest you read the following

*Forum Posting Rules: *

The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on our site. These rules are in addition to what is listed in our Terms Of Service , and Advertising Rules. Please read through all of these sections before using our site and contact us if you have questions..

*Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on preservationtalk.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause you account to be banned. *
If you do not appreciate the editing, don't say it in the first place. If you posted that on ContractorTalk, if would have been edited of you would have been placed on time out for a while.


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## BPWY

Driftweed said:


> Wow! Whole lot of editing going on in this thread....
> 
> Look, i've already said that my remarks were aimed at more than 1 person. If you don't believe in the right to face your accuser....
> 
> I honestly do not care if you like what I say or not, but if you ask I'll man up and say it again.
> 
> Please, if this site is for "anonymous trolls" who want to hide for fear of consequences of what they say.... proceed to edit. Be as good as "the enemy".
> 
> But if it's about accountability in what you say, don't edit people for blatantly calling out truth. We all have opinions, sorry mine doesn't jive.
> 
> Makes me curious how many other posts have been edited to suit your agenda. grow up and get out of your bubble....





BPWY said:


> The problem wasn't that you said any thing, it was the words used.
> The words used can be construed as a personal attack and trying to start a fight.





Did you not read what was said?

Continuing to agitate about the matter will result getting this thread locked up to you getting a vacation from the site. 
One thing to keep in mind is that the mods work together as a team and enforce the site rules as we see fit. 

Its pretty low to say that this site is for trolls. As for being here anonymously.......... you are just as guilty as any one.
No personal info of any kind is included in your profile. Including what state you are from.

As for the comments about moderator actions on editing etc, you'd do very well to realize that no forum staff members on any site
are going to take kindly to questioning moderator style. If you feel some is mishandled then you should take that up in private or with 
one of the admins. Public comments like yours are not going to get you very far!

I'd highly recommend that you READ and COMPREHEND what Brad just posted. 
These are the site rules and none of the staff wants to just go around arbitrarily banning members but the site rules are the site rules and they WILL BE enforced.

The choice is yours.


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## Craigslist Hack

Driftweed said:


> Wow! Whole lot of editing going on in this thread....
> 
> Look, i've already said that my remarks were aimed at more than 1 person. If you don't believe in the right to face your accuser....
> 
> I honestly do not care if you like what I say or not, but if you ask I'll man up and say it again.
> 
> Please, if this site is for "anonymous trolls" who want to hide for fear of consequences of what they say.... proceed to edit. Be as good as "the enemy".
> 
> But if it's about accountability in what you say, don't edit people for blatantly calling out truth. We all have opinions, sorry mine doesn't jive.
> 
> Makes me curious how many other posts have been edited to suit your agenda. grow up and get out of your bubble....


I honestly did not take the comments as these others have. I don't even disagree with what you are trying to say. I would have said it differently but hey that's just me.

I may be backing down a little I don't really care. I have an exit strategy and we are shrinking our national volume and doing more for realtors and private individuals. Our Window and Siding business is taking off. I could probably quit all nationals for the summer but come winter I still need them. When I was younger I made quick and hasty decisions some good some bad. Now I plan my work and work my plan this lessens the mistakes.


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## Craigslist Hack

wmhlc said:


> What don't you like about the estimating software? My net profit increased by 7% when I made the switch. I love it and it helps you train employees and it sets up a system to replace yourself as the owner.
> 
> Have you used an exacimate or similar program for more than a few days


Because I don't need it! I HATE sitting in front of a computer and breaking out all materials. manhours, waste, etc to do a roof when I know I charge $350.00 a square. The same goes for siding I charge $600.00 a square, windows are $400.00 a hole without caps and $500.00 with. 

I don't feel I should have to JUSTIFY my number or my invoice. Here is my price if you don't like it get someone else to do the work. 

I used to be a sales manager/project manager in the Water Tank industry. I used about every estimating software imaginable and even made a few of my own. The difference is I was paid enough to sit and do that all day. This industry is low profit high volume with no time to sit and break out how much fuel my mower used, how much air I put in my tires, what sharpening the blades cost me for that grass cut. the wear and tear on my belts, etc. It ridiculous and creates more work but doesn't create more income.


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## BPWY

Tell them that, as an INDEPENDENT contractor my price is my price.
Deal with it.

I don't play patty cake and grab axx very well.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> Tell them that, as an INDEPENDENT contractor my price is my price.
> Deal with it.
> 
> I don't play patty cake and grab axx very well.


That's not what the wookie told me.


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## BRADSConst

Craigslist Hack said:


> When I was younger I made quick and hasty decisions some good some bad. Now I plan my work and work my plan this lessens the mistakes.


That is excellent advice!:thumbup::thumbup:


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## 68W30

Sitting back with my popcorn in lap


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## Cleanupman

One of the things many forget...perhaps because this is the ONLY biusienss experience they have had is this is the only industry where the "customer" dictates....
I have no problem with customers...When I say a price they are free to ask for a better dear for themselves, we are free to say yay or nay...
Believe it or not people respect the fact I ask 325 bucks for a 4'X8" 3 tiered plante rbed based on material an labor costs...I know I can go to 250 and still keep a respectable matgin...However, for every person that asks for a better price 5 don't...here is a version
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...6100200.115064.505919892771883&type=1&theater
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Bottom line is being able to negotiate when you are getting beat up fee wise...


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