# Cost Estimator?



## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Most nationals now require a cost estimator to support your bid. I do primarily P&P work, so we are sent on bids that seem to never be approved. Pretty much every order requires a bid and on average we complete 15k orders a year. RepairBase was approved as the hud cost estimator and if a bid went in on every order it would cost me $15k to give estimates only. I just can't seem to justify that cost. I would rather provide my bids my way and hope that 20% comes back in return. There has got to be a more affordable way of estimating work. Some jobs only require lets say 200lf of trimming bushes. The client will not approve my bid without a CE included. Just to bid that $10 per bid seems excessive. Any ideas?


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

My bids get cut when using the cost estimator but if I don't they get cut per cost estimator. It's whatever suites them so it seems pointless at this point to use it.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

The CE is part of the industry these days. 

I truly believe it is price fixing and should be illegal.:vs_boom:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Excluding all the details, Acme Roofing quotes a 10/12 pitched shingle roof @ 12k. They have the license, insurance, boom trucks, scaffolding and required equipment to do the job.

Pablo's Landscaping & Roofing quotes the same job @ 7k. He has ladders, a compressor, nail guns, tarps to lay in the yard and catch the debris and can work weekends and holidays when the city inspector is off the clock.

The CE quotes the job @ $10,350.
The first guy can't afford it.
The second guy doesn't deserve it.
Yes, it is price fixing and stunts talent, expertise and the free market.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> Excluding all the details, Acme Roofing quotes a 10/12 pitched shingle roof @ 12k. They have the license, insurance, boom trucks, scaffolding and required equipment to do the job.
> 
> Pablo's Landscaping & Roofing quotes the same job @ 7k. He has ladders, a compressor, nail guns, tarps to lay in the yard and catch the debris and can work weekends and holidays when the city inspector is off the clock.
> 
> ...



I just did a roof, I don't remember the pitch, but I have found a professional roofer that will do the roof if materials are supplied as well as a dumpster for $60/sq. I did a roof that paid me $7k for $4k. Not bad for not lifting a finger other than to file the permit and make a phone call.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> I just did a roof, I don't remember the pitch, but I have found a professional roofer that will do the roof if materials are supplied as well as a dumpster for $60/sq. I did a roof that paid me $7k for $4k. Not bad for not lifting a finger other than to file the permit and make a phone call.


I'm not sure where you are located but I'd question $60/SQ and 'professional roofer' in the same sentence. That's not happening around here unless its cut throat new construction with actual volume. The fictitious P&P "make it on volume" doesn't count.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

BRADSConst said:


> I'm not sure where you are located but I'd question $60/SQ and 'professional roofer' in the same sentence. That's not happening around here unless its cut throat new construction with actual volume. The fictitious P&P "make it on volume" doesn't count.


They did a great job, I watched the whole thing. Passed Inspection. Took 5 guys 4 hours to do it. They were animals. They did 3 roofs that day. They are a "wholesale" roofer. I got prices from roofing companies of $75/sq. So they weren't far off, just more efficient. They don't work with the public so it's much easier on them. They don't have any overhead because they don't buy materials, and payment is due before they leave the property.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

$60/sq? Come on now... Who pays the work comp, general liability, permits, dump fees and is responsible for leaks? 

Someone (not sure who) got snookered


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Wannabe said:


> $60/sq? Come on now... Who pays the work comp, general liability, permits, dump fees and is responsible for leaks?
> 
> Someone (not sure who) got snookered



They are insured for themselves, my insurance acts as an umbrella policy, or if something happens down the road. I am responsible for permit and dump fees


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

A funny abt roofers


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> $60/sq? Come on now... Who pays the work comp, general liability, permits, dump fees and is responsible for leaks?
> 
> Someone (not sure who) got snookered


Here the going rate is $50.00 per square to lay it down and $35.00 per square to remove a layer. I think they get $10.00 more if there are 2 layers to remove.

We pay $125.00 a square to get Metal shingles laid down. 

We pay $45.00 per square for pole barn metal roofing (D-rib)


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Here the going rate is $50.00 per square to lay it down and $35.00 per square to remove a layer. I think they get $10.00 more if there are 2 layers to remove.
> 
> We pay $125.00 a square to get Metal shingles laid down.
> 
> We pay $45.00 per square for pole barn metal roofing (D-rib)



I did forget to mention, and forgot about this part as well, that I had my guys rip the roof, and the roofers came in and just laid a new roof for that price. I think he is $75-80 if he has to do both rip and replace


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Here the going rate is $50.00 per square to lay it down and $35.00 per square to remove a layer. I think they get $10.00 more if there are 2 layers to remove.
> 
> We pay $125.00 a square to get Metal shingles laid down.
> 
> We pay $45.00 per square for pole barn metal roofing (D-rib)


$35 to remove one layer is about right. The rest aren't worth getting out of bed for. 

I'm sure there guys around here doing those rates. Thankfully I'm not one of them.


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## PPPrincessNOT (Nov 11, 2013)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Here the going rate is $50.00 per square to lay it down and $35.00 per square to remove a layer. I think they get $10.00 more if there are 2 layers to remove.
> 
> 
> Hubster was originally a roofer, since he was 14 lugging bundles up for the guys, so quite some time now. He looked at that price and shook his head and said "ya get what ya pay for" May look really pretty but.. is it really quality work ?
> ...


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

PPPrincessNOT said:


> Craigslist Hack said:
> 
> 
> > Here the going rate is $50.00 per square to lay it down and $35.00 per square to remove a layer. I think they get $10.00 more if there are 2 layers to remove.
> ...


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Normally I would agree. A 4/12 or 6/12 ranch is an easy job (if your not doing it . ) I just did a mold job courtesy of the roofers insurance where the pipe boot leaked. 

Hire the best so YOU can rest. Maybe in your area it's a cheaper labor rate than the Midwest here. The "Southern" crews that work the Midwest hail storms charge $85/sq for install only. They normally have a Claims Made policy and they cancel their policies every 14 or 30 days so you can't collect from their policies. 

It's quite the industry


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

I've been running roofing, siding, and window crews on jobs for years. A monkey can roof it's not skilled labor. I will pay a guy more if he is good on a brake and can bend metal or has a skill. Just nailing shingles is not a skilled position. 

I have been to GAF factory for training, and Atlas, as well as Decra, and a few other manufacturers. I know what to look for on a job and I don't pay out on a job until I have been to the job and inspected the roof. That saying "You get what you pay for" has never made sense to me. I'm not paying until I get what I want. I don't get a poor quality job because if there is something I don't like I make them fix it before they get paid.:biggrin:


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I've been running roofing, siding, and window crews on jobs for years. A monkey can roof it's not skilled labor. I will pay a guy more if he is good on a brake and can bend metal or has a skill. Just nailing shingles is not a skilled position.
> 
> I have been to GAF factory for training, and Atlas, as well as Decra, and a few other manufacturers. I know what to look for on a job and I don't pay out on a job until I have been to the job and inspected the roof. That saying "You get what you pay for" has never made sense to me. I'm not paying until I get what I want. I don't get a poor quality job because if there is something I don't like I make them fix it before they get paid.:biggrin:



Couldn't agree with you more. Roofing is expensive because of the risk involved, not because of the skill involved. Same thing with tree companies. I know how to do roofs, I am just afraid of heights, so unless it's a single story house with almost no pitch, or I'm doing it from a boom lift, I'll stay on the ground and pay someone else.


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