# Question About Initial



## ReckStar (Jul 29, 2015)

Hi Everyone,

This is an awesome forum & I'm glad I found it. My question here is about an initial gc that I accepted for a property that has an area of about 1 acre, a 1 acre perimeter grass cut is the assignment. There is about 245921 SQ FT of property. In that area there is about 24000 of 6 inches of grass that needs to be cut, they want to pay me about $250. I went to the property and its a mess, I realized I won't be able to handle it for the allowable.... $250 to me is ridiculous. I would have to haul of the clippings as well. My question is; IS this the normal in the P&P field? 

What I am going to do is submit a bid for the initial because I will make zero dollars if I attempt this. Am I wrong for not accepting the $250, the grass is matted across the property and it seems impossible unless I hired a professional landscaping company to handle the cut and $250 won't do it I am afraid. You may be able to tell I know nothing about P&P but I had to start somewhere....


Thanks for your help.


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

hell i used to have reoccurring cuts that were taller than that.mow it high the first time then run over it again to mulch up the clippings. 1 acre done in an hour and move on. But $250 is not enough. more like $350- $400.

Wait till you get the 4-6 ft tall crap


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

Don't forget your discount! Depending on who you're working for they likely have a 25% discount they will put in their pocket. You'll need to bid $500 to get 375 in your wallet.


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

ReckStar said:


> I went to the property and its a mess, I realized I won't be able to handle it for the allowable.... $250 to me is ridiculous. I would have to haul of the clippings as well. My question is; IS this the normal in the P&P field?


To answer your question here- yes. Especially at the ground floor. I'm surprised they offered $250 to be honest...


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## Bowhunter (Jul 20, 2015)

Surprised.... Hell I'm shocked and it's an actual initial not a bid approval. Take solace in the fact that they seem to not be complete greedy heartless bastards. Ask for $200 more, put gator blades on your equipment and do a thorough check for hidden debris before you wrap a drive shaft around something really fun. ;-) good luck.


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## cover2 (Apr 3, 2013)

GATOR BLADES!! The best tool for befuddling cube monkeys.&#55357;&#56840;


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

Oh yes- I loooove my Gator Blades! "Where did the clippings go?" I love that...


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## Bowhunter (Jul 20, 2015)

Yep.. The absolute best! I could and have mowed concrete with em and they stay sharp and true. Best thing since the wheel those things are! Lmao


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Or the 8 ft stuff an a steep hill*



hammerhead said:


> hell i used to have reoccurring cuts that were taller than that.mow it high the first time then run over it again to mulch up the clippings. 1 acre done in an hour and move on. But $250 is not enough. more like $350- $400.
> 
> Wait till you get the 4-6 ft tall crap


And don't laugh at my old toro, it's perfect for that kinda stuff, and a great tool for all around recurring stuff up to about a half acre or so, and I have a lifetime supply of them. If you hit something with it, it just knocks the deck off the brackets, 5 minutes you're back to abusing it. Hey look, I found a house under there!


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

What did your "before" pictures look like? :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Ha Ha just givin ya chit.


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## IPS (May 24, 2015)

*What did you end up doing?*

$250 is not that bad... As long as you do are not driving far to the property. It is a perimeter cut usually is 15 feet away from the main dwelling and 7 around out buildings. I would have that knocked out in 15 minutes with 6" grass. 6" is short in this field! If you are wanting to get into the GC side of P&P you will be confronted with TALL GRASS more often than not. You must have equipment that is not able to handle the job? What do you own? 
I usually mow grass that is 3-4 ft tall.:thumbup: We have two mowers one is a JD Z930M and we set the deck height at 5.5 and go! then a follow up and 3" to finish it off. Definitely get the mulch on demand feature and keep your blades sharp. I never have to rake clippings! The other is a 48" walkbehind and it does a lot of the finish work. Most companies want 2" and i'll tell you what... if you set your deck to 2" kiss you blades good bye in a day. Vermont ground is uneven and rocky!:lol:


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## ReckStar (Jul 29, 2015)

*Lesson Learned*

Hi All,

Thanks for your support, I rebid and of course was denied, what I am going to do is invest in some equipment. My idea is to buy beat up ride on what needs repair on the and go from there. For now I am taking on trash outs and smaller initials and recuts. Not a bad business if you own the equipment. I am taking this on as a side business as an addition to my inspection work. This is what brought me into PP, inspecting and seeing work done and saying to myself " I wish I could be the person who winterizes and preserves, well I am here now and its going to be a rough start. I'll be back!


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## ReckStar (Jul 29, 2015)

hammerhead said:


> hell i used to have reoccurring cuts that were taller than that.mow it high the first time then run over it again to mulch up the clippings. 1 acre done in an hour and move on. But $250 is not enough. more like $350- $400.
> 
> Wait till you get the 4-6 ft tall crap




What do you mean mulch up the clippings? sorry I am a total noob but I have to start somewhere, I searched up grass clipping mulcher and got this

Thanks


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

mow over them a couple times to cut (mulch) them up into little pieces. much faster than bagging.

MTMTNMAN had a great pic of a job he did if you can find it


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## ReckStar (Jul 29, 2015)

*More efficient to use Gator Blades On*

The Second - Third pass?


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## NCnewbie (Aug 6, 2014)

Some initials might take 4 passes or more. Faster to just keep riding over it and blow the clippings around until they don't show in your pictures.


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

Get good at taking pictures. Angles and shade are your friend. :biggrin:

I swear- I would put an experienced P&P vendor against any professional photographer. Ansel Adams couldn't get the results I do with a $70 point 'n shoot...


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## Newbie (Apr 17, 2015)

I recently cut a 1/2 acre with 5' tall grass, 8' tall weeds with my Ariens tractor. The cheapest one Home depot had to offer with gator blades on it. 1 pass at 2 speed with the bagger. Had to empty it a bunch of times, and go over certain spots once or twice, but only did 1 pass for the most part and was fine.

Some yards are so bad that I went and got myself an attachment with the brush cutter on it. This tool has saved me countless hours and aggravation.


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## Cartersconstruction (Jul 16, 2015)

Welcome, 
You will find a lot of good information here, good people and even catch some laughs. I had some knowledge in the Rehab part but have basically learnt everything I know now form these forums.

Most of my initials are never under 2-3 ft. some are more which i can't do anything with because I'm also new and don't have that type of equipment. Don't laugh, I just have a 20 HP cub cadet riding mower. It does well. Hopefully can upgrade before next GC season. We never pick up clippings, we always just run them over till they are spread out or blown around where there not all piled up. Bids that are already approved for x amount I've only been able to get upped once. That was due to the bid being approved 3 weeks before and the contractor it was assigned to quit. So by time it was sent to me it was three weeks later and grass was about 1' taller.

We cut one a few weeks ago, It was 2' with spots close to the home in front of the shrubs about 3, 5’. It was a BAF i called from site because i don't like the BAF jobs because you really have no idea what you will be paid. He ensured me they would take care of me, said Just do a good job and when you think you have enough photos take 100 more. 

We also cut all the shrubs down below the windows and off the house. Really didn't spend much time on them. About 15 shrubs were trimmed. And cut two low hanging thee limbs. About 3 inches around. I was hoping to get about $350-400 for this job. We we're there about 3.5 hours. Ended up getting $535

This was my first "big" GC job. And I'm pretty proud of it since I didn't come from a landscaping background. So thought I would share. Good Luck and don't get discouraged. It's a fact that most of the places will screw you every chance they get. But there are good people to work with and a few good companies as well.


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

Nice work, Cartersconstruction... This is why I sometimes like this industry  I am one of those people that really enjoys making someplace that looks like crap, look really good...


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

I don't mind doing cuts like that, but it really depends on what type of equipment you use. I have commercial machines, so it laughs at stuff like this, but since the back of the house is wooded it makes the job cake. Just keep running your mower in the same direction towards the woods. 1 trip down facing the woods to get the majority of the crap and come on the same pass facing the other way to cleanup what wasn't cut in the first pass. By the time your at the end the lawn will look decent. Been doing it this way for years, and I have never taken clippings with me.


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## NorthwestWA (Jun 25, 2016)

yeah everyone on here is about right. To Cut the acre it is about $1000- I get those approved all the time. It looks a lot higher than 6 inches though. to do the perimeter cut...well I have commercial equipment and for $250 I would do it. A SCAG 36 advantage with Gator blades would whip right through that. $250 is a bit on the low side of course. But you might bid it and may not see it again. so the question is.... are you willing to put the $250 in your pocket for a perimeter cut? or risk not seeing the bid approved? The answer invest in bigger equipment and you would not be having this conversation.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

NorthwestWA said:


> yeah everyone on here is about right. To Cut the acre it is about $1000- I get those approved all the time. It looks a lot higher than 6 inches though. to do the perimeter cut...well I have commercial equipment and for $250 I would do it. A SCAG 36 advantage with Gator blades would whip right through that. $250 is a bit on the low side of course. But you might bid it and may not see it again. so the question is.... are you willing to put the $250 in your pocket for a perimeter cut? or risk not seeing the bid approved? The answer invest in bigger equipment and you would not be having this conversation.


Bigger and better equipment doesn't mean that you wouldn't be having this conversation. The bigger and better equipment is much more expensive, so yes you need to pay for it, but you need to be able to make a profit on the job. Your overhead with these more expensive machines is higher. My main machine cost me $11,500 and I just bought another for $7700, so that job to beat up my new equipment for $250 just isn't going to happen. I look at grass cuts this way. If the allowable is up to 12" for lets say $50 for a recut and $90 for an initial, if it's overgrown, it's an initial again regardless of if the grass has been cut this season or not. So for every 6" over the 12" allowable, I add another initial cut. If that grass is 36", my bid is $450 plus the bushes and tree trimming


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## NorthwestWA (Jun 25, 2016)

madxtreme01 said:


> Bigger and better equipment doesn't mean that you wouldn't be having this conversation. The bigger and better equipment is much more expensive, so yes you need to pay for it, but you need to be able to make a profit on the job. Your overhead with these more expensive machines is higher. My main machine cost me $11,500 and I just bought another for $7700, so that job to beat up my new equipment for $250 just isn't going to happen. I look at grass cuts this way. If the allowable is up to 12" for lets say $50 for a recut and $90 for an initial, if it's overgrown, it's an initial again regardless of if the grass has been cut this season or not. So for every 6" over the 12" allowable, I add another initial cut. If that grass is 36", my bid is $450 plus the bushes and tree trimming



I don't disagree with you MadXtreme. I the context of cutting the entire thing you are correct. We re talking about a perimeter cut. Take a drive with your ZMower around the perimeter and and park it on your trailer. 5 minutes tops. $250 That is HALF of the $450 you called out for the entire thing. you are telling me you would not do that??


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

NorthwestWA said:


> We re talking about a perimeter cut. Take a drive with your ZMower around the perimeter and and park it on your trailer. 5 minutes tops.


That's not a perimeter cut.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

NorthwestWA said:


> I don't disagree with you MadXtreme. I the context of cutting the entire thing you are correct. We re talking about a perimeter cut. Take a drive with your ZMower around the perimeter and and park it on your trailer. 5 minutes tops. $250 That is HALF of the $450 you called out for the entire thing. you are telling me you would not do that??



You would be correct, except for one thing, you have a misconception of what a perimeter cut actually is. Depending on the client it could be a 15k sq ft lot from the house out and some clients are 1 acre the same from the house out.


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## daustine (Jun 6, 2016)

*who ?*



ReckStar said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thanks for your support, I rebid and of course was denied, what I am going to do is invest in some equipment. My idea is to buy beat up ride on what needs repair on the and go from there. For now I am taking on trash outs and smaller initials and recuts. Not a bad business if you own the equipment. I am taking this on as a side business as an addition to my inspection work. This is what brought me into PP, inspecting and seeing work done and saying to myself " I wish I could be the person who winterizes and preserves, well I am here now and its going to be a rough start. I'll be back!


Who do you work for?


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## reoPROS (Mar 2, 2015)

yes, cut it. I would , BUT i would cut exactly 250$ worth , not a penny less, then bid the rest. I would get all around the house really good , make a couple of passes so you can see the house then bid the remainder.this was they HAVE to pay you, or lien the property.


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