# 60 Day Plus Payouts



## tak (Dec 28, 2012)

Anyone else getting payments from clients nearly 60 days or more out? I have several jobs with NFN that are over 45 especially PTC's and Bid Approvals.

I have a few jobs with Cyprexx that are 45 days out as well.

Is it typical that these companies now stretch out payment to 45-60 or more? I feel this companies are breaching thier own contracts which states 35 days (NFN) and 30 (Cyprexx). My Cyprexx maint. check came on time though. Just seeing what everyone else thinks about this situation.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

tak said:


> Anyone else getting payments from clients nearly 60 days or more out? I have several jobs with NFN that are over 45 especially PTC's and Bid Approvals.
> 
> I have a few jobs with Cyprexx that are 45 days out as well.
> 
> Is it typical that these companies now stretch out payment to 45-60 or more? I feel this companies are breaching thier own contracts which states 35 days (NFN) and 30 (Cyprexx). My Cyprexx maint. check came on time though. Just seeing what everyone else thinks about this situation.


All I know about it is every client we have is stretching us further and further out. I doubt it's a coincidence so I am guessing it starts at the top?


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Had a few issues with a couple customers for a short time. I explained the importance of cash flow to any business and detailed how it was no less important for me than it was for them.

Then I turned down then next few jobs due to cash flow issues. All but one of them tightened up. 

The one that still has issues should be corrected soon. Seems they are tired of paying fines to code enforcement and HOAs for tall grass and I am tired of being paid three weeks late. I explained to them that correcting one problem would solve the second. 

The VP of the company flew in from the west coast to address slow pay issues yesterday and is going to personally correct them when he returns on Monday.


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## ontimepres (Jan 4, 2013)

Tak just make it part of your routine every Monday to send an aging list to their accounting department for payments past the deadline in their contract. Less confrontational than a 1 time "why are you late paying me?!" conversation and hopefully will get some results!


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## tak (Dec 28, 2012)

Ontime-

We make it a habit to call every Friday Morning to any client of ours that currently has outstanding invoices over 40 days out. Monday's might work better though


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

I believe it is from the top tiers. Even Realtors are up to 6 months out on unpaid invoices sooooo I think it is a "trend" that will only get worse.


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## proppresnyc (Aug 11, 2013)

thats right we're doing the work, we're laying out thousands of dollars, why cant we get paid on time ?


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

proppresnyc said:


> thats right we're doing the work, we're laying out thousands of dollars, why cant we get paid on time ?


Agreed! It is beyond frustrating!

BTW proppresnyc, welcome to PT. You should jump on over to the introductions section & tell us a little about yourself.


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*hi*

anything over 30 days i no longer do,i know these companies are paid within 30 days,they should be able to pay the contractors in a timely manner,if i asked my employees to wait 45-60 days they'd tell me where to go,just say no and refuse the work,the longer people do this before you know it you'll be waiting 6 months while they draw more interest on your money.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

david said:


> anything over 30 days i no longer do,i know these companies are paid within 30 days,they should be able to pay the contractors in a timely manner,if i asked my employees to wait 45-60 days they'd tell me where to go,just say no and refuse the work,the longer people do this before you know it you'll be waiting 6 months while they draw more interest on your money.


Do you know that they are being paid within 30 days? I happen to know for a fact that many are not. I don't know if they all have the same deal or what but some are not getting paid for 120+ days.

This is also why the charge backs take so long.


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## MYMONEY1 (Aug 2, 2013)

*Lol nfn*

I have invoices that are older then 120 days old with NFN. I'm about to take my invoices and computer to Jersey and get something done. I've never dropped a company , but I'm fixing to!! They are horrible . Not sure how until they crash and burn.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Do you know that they are being paid within 30 days? I happen to know for a fact that many are not. I don't know if they all have the same deal or what but some are not getting paid for 120+ days.
> 
> This is also why the charge backs take so long.


I know that Freddie invoices are sent in at the end of the month and paid with 21 days of receipt. So not quite 30 days.

However, with that being said, why is 30 days out of line? When they are taking a minimum of 20%, what are they doing for that? If you have to wait to be paid until they are paid, or wait until a "potential" chargeback clears, they should be able to work on a much smaller margin. As a GC, I pay my skilled subs upon completion and in many times front material funds up front. That is why I add 20%. If I can use their money to run my business, I can work on a much smaller margin.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> I know that Freddie invoices are sent in at the end of the month and paid with 21 days of receipt. So not quite 30 days.
> 
> However, with that being said, why is 30 days out of line? When they are taking a minimum of 20%, what are they doing for that? If you have to wait to be paid until they are paid, or wait until a "potential" chargeback clears, they should be able to work on a much smaller margin. As a GC, I pay my skilled subs upon completion and in many times front material funds up front. That is why I add 20%. If I can use their money to run my business, I can work on a much smaller margin.


I know Freddie does pay fast. They are the exception I believe? I don't think HUD, VA, or Fannie pay that quickly especially on the P&P side.

I honest;y don't know how they make money at 20%? Look at the overhead a company like Corelogic has. They have MAJOR overhead and they get charged back just like we do. They also deal with cuts for poor performance etc.

I'm not defending the nationals I hate them like everyone else does. I just don't think they are getting as rich as people think.

I couldn't live on a 20% margin. On most of our construction jobs we are at 300% or more. I prefer small projects under $20,000.00 usually with high margins. If some one under bids me they can have it. 

In P&P we take what we can get and turn down everything we can if it doesn't make sense. We still have to run losers like everyone else but the end game is to get out.:thumbup:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I honest;y don't know how they make money at 20%? Look at the overhead a company like Corelogic has.


Well now you are just being plain silly! They do just like we are told to do. They make it up on volume....:thumbup::lol::lol::lol:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I couldn't live on a 20% margin. On most of our construction jobs we are at 300% or more. I prefer small projects under $20,000.00 usually with high margins. If some one under bids me they can have it.


I'm not totally understanding your math here. I might be calculating something different than you are so please bear with me.

Using the above example, of a $20k job. Are you saying that the labor materials come in at $5k and the overhead and profit come in at 300% or 15k? That is awesome! I wouldn't be able to land a single private party job around here if I tried to pull that off.


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*hi*

based on different opinions here when said nationals get paid,how many people besides our field would wait 45-60-90 etc days to get paid,im doubting very few would,nationals will tell you anything to keep you working so they make money and pay you when their ready,believe it or not just how it is.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> I'm not totally understanding your math here. I might be calculating something different than you are so please bear with me.
> 
> Using the above example, of a $20k job. Are you saying that the labor materials come in at $5k and the overhead and profit come in at 300% or 15k? That is awesome! I wouldn't be able to land a single private party job around here if I tried to pull that off.


Just did a window job at $1,000.00 an opening had 200.00 per window in cost. Its simple math really. We aren't doing but a few a week however we make great margins on them. My competition does 3 times as many jobs for less profit and has more service exposure. 

I'm not interested in making a living. I want to make a killing. If I am going to get out of bed and go to work it better be worth it. 

I NEVER leave the house for less than 300.00 a day. That's rock bottom for me. I know guys that won't work for less than 1,000.00.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Just did a window job at $1,000.00 an opening had 200.00 per window in cost. Its simple math really. We aren't doing but a few a week however we make great margins on them. My competition does 3 times as many jobs for less profit and has more service exposure.
> 
> I'm not interested in making a living. I want to make a killing. If I am going to get out of bed and go to work it better be worth it.
> 
> I NEVER leave the house for less than 300.00 a day. That's rock bottom for me. I know guys that won't work for less than 1,000.00.


That is awesome!:thumbup: I had to quit doing windows around here. Too many companies offering "Any size installed for $189/opening." On top of that, the home owners pull out the Sunday flyer and say, "your material is only this much, no way I'm paying that."

I won't get out of bed without making a living anymore either. No $25 grass cuts for me nor will I install a window for $200 labor and material. Occasionally I get the "killing" but they are too far between so I have started looking for my next rental/flip opportunity.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> That is awesome!:thumbup: I had to quit doing windows around here. Too many companies offering "Any size installed for $189/opening." On top of that, the home owners pull out the Sunday flyer and say, "your material is only this much, no way I'm paying that."
> 
> I won't get out of bed without making a living anymore either. No $25 grass cuts for me nor will I install a window for $200 labor and material. Occasionally I get the "killing" but they are too far between so I have started looking for my next rental/flip opportunity.


We offer any size window for 169.00 just like wveryone else. We just don't sell any. The triple pane window we sell for 1,000.00 each requires a good salesman who can close. Not an estimator but a closer. It's a phenominal product but they aren't going to know that until you prove it to them. 

We do Decra metal shingles also at the same margin. Same scenario it required a good presentation and somebody who isn't afraid to ask for the order. 

If you estimate or sell the same product the same way as everyone else in the phone book you won't get any more money than they do. You shouldn't either. 

Hot have to seperate yourself from the rest. We do it with high end products and good presentations incorporating laptops and technology to keep them engaged. I use Renoworks on occasion to show them whàt their house will look like when we are done. Paint them into ownership. 

It's fun I enjoy the creativity and most of the time we love our clients and they love us.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Hack, lawn care isn't any different. 

I've got pics with me of what my work looks like, I tell folks that their yard will look the same. 

I've got some great before and after pics.

Like this property, 30 days to the day later with our care...... before and after.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> We offer any size window for 169.00 just like wveryone else. We just don't sell any. The triple pane window we sell for 1,000.00 each requires a good salesman who can close. Not an estimator but a closer. It's a phenominal product but they aren't going to know that until you prove it to them.
> 
> We do Decra metal shingles also at the same margin. Same scenario it required a good presentation and somebody who isn't afraid to ask for the order.
> 
> ...


Some good info above to think about. I've got start selling myself/Brand differently.

I had an elderly roof customer 2 years ago that wanted a repair done. Turns out I had the IPad in the truck so I took it up on the roof me. I took pictures of all the areas she couldn't see from the ground. I ended up selling a complete replacement. I should've learned more from that experience.:sad:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Hack, lawn care isn't any different.
> 
> I've got pics with me of what my work looks like, I tell folks that their yard will look the same.
> 
> ...


Looks awesome BPWY:thumbsup:. The way my yard looks, I should have you stop out and put in a sprinkler system and get mine looking like that.


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Hack, lawn care isn't any different.
> 
> I've got pics with me of what my work looks like, I tell folks that their yard will look the same.
> 
> ...


it;s amazing what a little water will do :thumbup:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> Some good info above to think about. I've got start selling myself/Brand differently.
> 
> I had an elderly roof customer 2 years ago that wanted a repair done. Turns out I had the IPad in the truck so I took it up on the roof me. I took pictures of all the areas she couldn't see from the ground. I ended up selling a complete replacement. I should've learned more from that experience.:sad:


For whatever reason technology engages the client and they HAVE to have it.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> For whatever reason technology engages the client and they HAVE to have it.


Ooohhh... shiny.. and buttons... we must has it precious...


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