# I give up..



## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

I know this story isnt about the evil s/g or 4 broz etc.. i had a bid to remove a warehouse of junk. 6200 sqft. removal of all the racks, prob 300 yrds and prob 11 tons of metal.. scraps of metal, 13 alum bins 600lbs plus.. i bid a little under cause i would make a killing with the scrap along so i didnt under bid myself to look stupid.. I listed everything with a time and break down.. The owner of the build sent me a email with some guys bid " on a plain sheet of paper" it said remove all junk miss spelling, no letter head, no explation what was to be done with the 90 gallons of chemicals, Or other hazards.. his bid was 2600.00 he under bid me by ohhhh 75% i was 2nd in line for cheapest bid. I cant do this no more.. time it takes to get work, build up people and then some yahooo comes in and low balls every profit.:sad: ill post photos in a few.


----------



## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

The bestest business is when you've earned the trust to be the only bidder but so many industries don't allow that.

In landscaping business, someone tells me that we got this new job, the first thing thru my head is "what did we miss on the bid and how we will make it work........"


----------



## JenkinsHB (Apr 11, 2012)

Winning bid took into account the resale value of the racks? There must have been something there worth more than scrap.


----------



## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*Hi*

even time he sells aluminum and scrap and pays dump fee,is he really going to profit a lot? i know dumping chemicals and paint where im at they charge 1.00 a pound luckily i give the paint away on craigslist for people to paint barns and sheds,i just dont guarantee its all good,saves me a big bill.


----------



## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

ezdayman said:


> I know this story isnt about the evil s/g or 4 broz etc.. i had a bid to remove a warehouse of junk. 6200 sqft. removal of all the racks, prob 300 yrds and prob 11 tons of metal.. scraps of metal, 13 alum bins 600lbs plus.. i bid a little under cause i would make a killing with the scrap along so i didnt under bid myself to look stupid.. I listed everything with a time and break down.. The owner of the build sent me a email with some guys bid " on a plain sheet of paper" it said remove all junk miss spelling, no letter head, no explation what was to be done with the 90 gallons of chemicals, Or other hazards.. his bid was 2600.00 he under bid me by ohhhh 75% i was 2nd in line for cheapest bid. I cant do this no more.. time it takes to get work, build up people and then some yahooo comes in and low balls every profit.:sad: ill post photos in a few.


That's an easy one--you respond like this: "Sir, I appreciate your confidence in allowing our company to bid our services. We took the time to talk with the EPA, OSHA AND THE DNR concerning the hazardous waste which comprised a huge portion of our estimate. We did this to protect your liability since the owner is responsible for the fines of any improper disposal so we supplied the address of your shi* pile of hazards to avoid any future possible litigation. Once again this was done to protect you and us too. Thank You for your consideration and we would be happy to assist on any future projects! 

P.s. You can thank us later "


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

From time to time we get calls from a homeowner who has a vacant property (the parents died, they bought a fixer upper, an empty nester getting rid of junk, etc) and they want a quote for hauling away "a few things". 
First I explain that we charge a minimum fee based on showing up and what the landfill base cost is. Bedding, solvents, paints, oil, hazards are all additional cost.
"Oh my, $400 just to empty out the garage. I was thinking maybe $75. Can't you use some of these things for yourself? I'm sure those televisions would be good if they had remotes. Maybe you could sell some of them. No?" I guess I'll just go with the foreign gentleman that can do it for the $100."
The answer is that rather than giving up, market yourself to better customers.
Charge for a better service and deliver, and the clients who are a tier or two above the CraigsListers will use you. A guy that budgets $2500 for a 10k job was never going to be your customer no matter what you said.


----------



## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

*Story of my life....*

This is why I got fed up with my other business, doing site work. We would constantly get under bid, beat up on pricing, etc. Your number is good on this and this, but high on this, etc. We have to make money! I couldnt do it anymore, wasting lots of time on bidding jobs only to get beat up on my bid.  And there is always a good ole boy around, they show our numbers to him and he always under bids.


----------



## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> The answer is that rather than giving up, market yourself to better customers.
> Charge for a better service and deliver, and the clients who are a tier or two above the CraigsListers will use you. A guy that budgets $2500 for a 10k job was never going to be your customer no matter what you said.


Very sage advice right there :thumbsup:

I have made a quite a few changes this year regarding these thoughts.

1) Free Estimates are only in writing if my gut feeling says to do so. Otherwise I'll give you a verbal ballpark.

2) I ask people what their budget is. If they don't want to share, they go to the bottom of my priority list

3) I do not advertise on Craigslist at all. I only use CL for buying or selling things. I don't hire from there (anymore) nor do I look for work from there.

4) I have a Facebook business page, but I don't troll all the groups looking for work. They aren't my customers and most likely won't be.

Recent example: I was working in a nearby town and a "potential" customer called looking for a price on a detached garage. I was in town so I stopped by to scope it out. Entire package was north of $17k. I shot him a price over the over phone. I got "geez, I was hoping this would be under $10k." After a quick laugh, I told him good luck with that. Permits, concrete, erosion control and materials were over $10k. Moral, the guy was nuts and will never be my customer. Just move on.

Another example: I got a call from a lady looking for a roof quote. She said I came "highly recommended from a Facebook group of her friends." She asked why I don't advertise there. I told her I can't compete with unemployed people, illegals, and side work jobbers. I gave her a price and got "We'll get back to you. We need more quotes". Really? WTF happened to highly recommended????

Point being, there are customers out there that WILL pay for quality, quick completion, premium materials, etc. They are just not easy to find. It is damn near impossible to find them if the first place you look is Craigslist and the second place you look is Facebook. Well, that's my experience anyway.


----------



## newreo (May 30, 2014)

BRADSConst said:


> Very sage advice right there :thumbsup:
> 
> I have made a quite a few changes this year regarding these thoughts.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything that you said. Nothing will be better than the call that we get from one woman: I am looking to paint my rooms, how much do you charge? I give her an answer and she says, well, can you paint it for 25.00? Like WTH? Can she paint it for 25.00? Another one said she was looking for remodeling estimate, we came out and she wants to change cutting board in her cabinets and fix her cabinet light along with range fan. We like really? No handymen around the area? You had to call contractor to do that? 
Can I ask what do you think works the best from advertisement stand point?


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> Point being, there are customers out there that WILL pay for quality, quick completion, premium materials, etc. They are just not easy to find. It is damn near impossible to find them if the first place you look is Craigslist and the second place you look is Facebook. Well, that's my experience anyway.






I've even tried paid FB advertising. Lucky for me I only spent $60 doing it. 
Not a single phone call from it.


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

The problem I see here from nearly every post is they are competing on price. I know you all say you do quality work but what do you think the other guy is saying? Is he telling the prospect that he's shoddy and his methods are illegal? No he is telling them I'll do just as good or better and it's half the price.

I sell 90% of the jobs I bid in construction and I usually get 2 or 3 times what the last guy quoted them. The reason why is simple. I never walk up and hand out a price. I show the features advantages and benefits I spend some time with the client and educate them on the products available for their project. 

Sold a roof yesterday the previous contractor was at $23,500. We came in at $41,935.00 for a complete removal of 2 layers, shake, and a redeck. We are putting back metal shingles. Everyone else quoted them 20-45year architectural shingles. Not one person showed them metal. Because they were scared of the price.

The very first thing I said when I introduced myself was "We are going to be the most expensive company you talk to. Let me tell you why!"


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Customers like to believe they are getting value. And personalized attention.


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Customers like to believe they are getting value. And personalized attention.


One guy can carry out an old couch as good as the next so why would I pay more for company xyz than abc is charging me? 

Most people don't care where it goes once it leaves.


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> One guy can carry out an old couch as good as the next so why would I pay more for company xyz than abc is charging me?
> 
> Most people don't care where it goes once it leaves.




My comment was in reference to the post above it. 

Not trash out work


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BPWY said:


> My comment was in reference to the post above it.
> 
> Not trash out work


No I knew where you were coming from. 

you are one of the guys that gets it.:thumbup:


----------



## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

You guys are all good guys.. I sell myself it's usually higher up people that make the choice this was threw a hedge fund group that owns tons of industrial building. Money talks, I could have done it cheaper but I don't care no more  to bad everyone didn't live near the same be cool to sit down and have some beers and all bull ****..


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

ezdayman said:


> You guys are all good guys.. I sell myself it's usually higher up people that make the choice this was threw a hedge fund group that owns tons of industrial building. Money talks, I could have done it cheaper but I don't care no more  to bad everyone didn't live near the same be cool to sit down and have some beers and all bull ****..



Hedge funds and investors ONLY see the bottom line. We looked at that as a possible exit from the national a few years ago. Today we still work for 2 nationals and ZERO hedge funds.


----------



## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> One guy can carry out an old couch as good as the next so why would I pay more for company xyz than abc is charging me?
> 
> Most people don't care where it goes once it leaves.



While in and of itself is true, There is still liability to the owner of the property the "stuff" came from. As Wanabe said above, Throw the ABC government agency verbiage out there. Sell yourself as doing things the right way TO PROTECT YOUR CUSTOMER! Not dumping the stuff in a back alley or hiding chemicals in trash when you dump. Doing things the right way has a cost involved but the protection from liability is priceless!


----------



## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Facebook is very good for your SEO*



BPWY said:


> I've even tried paid FB advertising. Lucky for me I only spent $60 doing it.
> Not a single phone call from it.


For some reason the google crawler loves facebook and it gets you up the page,it is a necessary part of a web campaign, or at least a free Search Engine Optimization you would be foolish to pass up.


----------



## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> From time to time we get calls from a homeowner who has a vacant property (the parents died, they bought a fixer upper, an empty nester getting rid of junk, etc) and they want a quote for hauling away "a few things".
> 
> First I explain that we charge a minimum fee based on showing up and what the landfill base cost is. Bedding, solvents, paints, oil, hazards are all additional cost.
> 
> ...



Amen


----------



## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

GTX63 said:


> From time to time we get calls from a homeowner who has a vacant property (the parents died, they bought a fixer upper, an empty nester getting rid of junk, etc) and they want a quote for hauling away "a few things".
> First I explain that we charge a minimum fee based on showing up and what the landfill base cost is. Bedding, solvents, paints, oil, hazards are all additional cost.
> "Oh my, $400 just to empty out the garage. I was thinking maybe $75. Can't you use some of these things for yourself? I'm sure those televisions would be good if they had remotes. Maybe you could sell some of them. No?" I guess I'll just go with the foreign gentleman that can do it for the $100."
> The answer is that rather than giving up, market yourself to better customers.
> Charge for a better service and deliver, and the clients who are a tier or two above the CraigsListers will use you. A guy that budgets $2500 for a 10k job was never going to be your customer no matter what you said.



Love when people do this.. they act like i just came from a chairty lol... And why shouldnt you pay more.. I m the one with INS, Im the one that is legit to drive down the HWY with DOT checks my trucks are all inspected by the state every year. I also secure my loads i have all the tools to do my job..
The guy thatdid this job.. I bet has only auto ins. no business name or isnt listed with the state. Will not throw chemicals away the legit way. i might be more pricy but i dont look like a hack going down the road. I have a 1800# listed on the back of all my dumps, my business is smaller but im 100% covered my ass.. IF dot found this guy going down the highway with the chemicals the guys fines would have been $$$$$.. you can pay cheaper but if the chemicals feel off and caused damaged to a car, or burnt someone, or an items was dumped who is the lawyer going to come after? the person with the deep pockets.. the guy you hired has no INS whos going to pay.. cheap isnt always the answer.


----------



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> While in and of itself is true, There is still liability to the owner of the property the "stuff" came from. As Wanabe said above, Throw the ABC government agency verbiage out there. Sell yourself as doing things the right way TO PROTECT YOUR CUSTOMER! Not dumping the stuff in a back alley or hiding chemicals in trash when you dump. Doing things the right way has a cost involved but the protection from liability is priceless!


I agree with this 100% however the average home owner, or investor is just looking for cheap. We had a call from a realtor last week. He's from the local Keller Williams office and I do quite a bit of work for them. He has an investment property they gutted and threw everything in the yard. The city is violating them for the trash and he needs something done immediately. I gave a very aggressive break even price just because I want to embed us in that realtors office. The guy called and tried to get me to discount further and I couldn't. He actually said "these other guys are illegals I think? We would rather use your company but the bottom line is all that matters." I said we can't move on our price.

I might also add there was not one permit in the windows, nor was there a person onsite who looked like he slept indoors the night before. I have a feeling they are being paid in beer, or mad dog 20/20?


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I agree with this 100% however the average home owner, or investor is just looking for cheap. We had a call from a realtor last week. He's from the local Keller Williams office and I do quite a bit of work for them. He has an investment property they gutted and threw everything in the yard. The city is violating them for the trash and he needs something done immediately. I gave a very aggressive break even price just because I want to embed us in that realtors office. The guy called and tried to get me to discount further and I couldn't. He actually said "these other guys are illegals I think? We would rather use your company but the bottom line is all that matters." I said we can't move on our price.
> 
> I might also add there was not one permit in the windows, nor was there a person onsite who looked like he slept indoors the night before. I have a feeling they are being paid in beer, or mad dog 20/20?





I just hate when the city just happens to magically drive down the street and notice there are no permits and the job gets redflagged.


----------

