# Safeguard work...



## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

I have been in this industry going on 7 years now...not saying that makes me an expert, but with the current state of the industry I feel safe calling myself "seasoned". Over the years when we have come across properties that have been serviced by Safeguard we have always been appualed at the condition of the properties. Recently Safeguard has been heavily recruiting in our area so to better understand some of the "why's" in the industry I made arrangements to go around, shadowing, if you will, a vendor [subbing] representing Safeguard and 5 Brother's for five days. I'm sure everyone knows 5B receives the majority of their work from SG ( according to the vendor of 8 years).
I have always questioned as to way every Safeguard property we have received as a transition property has plumbing damage, bad wints, filthy conditions.
Well I got my answer...
I witnessed two winterizations completed without an air compressor of any type being used, no pipes blown, no hot water heater drained. a property that is on a shared water system with no way to turn the water off to the property have winterization signs palced with one gallon of antifreeze used.
When I questioned this I was told.
"If I do not do this Safeguard will make me come back and do it"..
Ok then why not at least winterize the commodes correctly? I asked?
What do you mean?
Well you did not wash the commodes, you pushed urine and toilet paper down with a plunger and used maybe three ounces of anti freeze...
This was the response...."That is all I can afford with the fee Safeguard pays.
So I ask why don't you tell the truth and tell Safeguard that this property can not be winterized and ask for a trip fee...Because I get more for the winterzation fee...

Not sure how any of you will interpret that...for myself...
.........That is selling your integrity for a buck.......

If anything is to change throughout the industry Vendors have to start saying no to these companies forcing their hand. We ARE independent contractors and according to the IRS are not obligated to perform a service at a fee that is forced upon us.
If change is to come then vendors have to draw the line.

I do not know about any of you but I would not want our company represented in that manner.
I now know why every Safeguard property is a mess....on the wints alone
>No draining of hot water heater
>No blowing the system out
>one gallon of antifreeze instead of the required 4 gallons (3.5 for the second unit) to properly winterize the house.
>No water turned off to house at second property

I'm still dismayed at everything...

If there are any Safeguard vendors that can shed some light on this...They have a massive amount of work in this area. However, we are extremely aprehensive of this compamy due to all the horror stories and well... this incident just did not sit well with me our the lady that signs my check...
It seems to me that you have to sacriface your integrity to work for this company...
Here's what I do not understand...All I ever hear is bad. is there any good??

Thankxx


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

On my phone so can't type much, but that sounds like a cop out by a bad contractor. Sg pays 85-100 before discount.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

I have been with sg many years and we make a decent profit off the work. I honesty like them the best out of all the nationals. We do well over 6 figures a year with them and we receive very little in chargebacks. You need to be step up to work for them, at least one office person who has both field and updating knowledge.

In my area all the sg houses are done correctly and most of the other nationals work sucks, so I think it's a regional thing.

Sg can also convey houses with damages have no idea how and why they can but they do it all the time. Not sure why the contractors can't complete for the prices safeguard pays 75percent pays 100 minus your discount.

Maybe they are a sub of a sub of safeguard, when your a direct vendor of sg they require you in my area to in house qc person and send in your monthly qc checks on 25 perce of your orders.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> On my phone so can't type much, but that sounds like a cop out by a bad contractor. Sg pays 85-100 before discount.


I think so too. Sometimes they piss me off but then they send an order that makes it all worth it:thumbup: Have two right now that are mid five figures running a 40percent margin on


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm being told that you have to take the whole state...
I have made numerous attempts to discuss things with Steve Buzach but nothing. may have something to do with the fact I'm a **** disturder at times...but the only people we get here are those wanting to sub the work...the numbers are not good enough for their work to be subbed...so we wont work with anyone
Pretty tough dichotomy...


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Not sure what state your in but the facts you are saying are wrong. We only cover a 50 mile radius for them. They assign zones not states we have 7 zones in michigan


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

OK thanks...I'll have have to revisit this with the owner...How long have you been with them??


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Around 7 years


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

I see the same thing around here. SG has been recruiting for over a year in my area and cannot get any vendors. They call or e-mail me at least once a month. The Zone i live in is roughly 20,000 sq miles. It is not profitable to drive 100 miles for a wint and this is why they get half azzed work from their only vendor here who has been with them for 14 years. I do one time vendor stuff for them that the regular guy can't complete such as bush hogging and clearing 4' deep snow i nthe winter for HUGE $$$$$. No uploads though. Just e-mail photos and an invoice in!! 

My friend covers a zone south of here with a little higher volume and is getting trip fees to come into this zone and take care of properties that where half azzed by the local vendor. On the REO side the brokers are raising hell but it falls on deaf ears. Things are not being completed properly, properties are being winterized the day of closing Ect. There is no interaction between SG, its contractors and the brokers. My friends wife wants to give up the whole deal as updating to SG is a 16 hour a day job. Just an initial secure done properly takes around an hour to update and then the system has constant glitches and she'll loose 3-5 orders a week and have to do them all over again even though she saves every 10 minutes. I for one can't believe the company is still in business................


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> I have been in this industry going on 7 years now...not saying that makes me an expert, but with the current state of the industry I feel safe calling myself "seasoned". Over the years when we have come across properties that have been serviced by Safeguard we have always been appualed at the condition of the properties. Recently Safeguard has been heavily recruiting in our area so to better understand some of the "why's" in the industry I made arrangements to go around, shadowing, if you will, a vendor [subbing] representing Safeguard and 5 Brother's for five days. I'm sure everyone knows 5B receives the majority of their work from SG ( according to the vendor of 8 years).
> I have always questioned as to way every Safeguard property we have received as a transition property has plumbing damage, bad wints, filthy conditions.
> Well I got my answer...
> I witnessed two winterizations completed without an air compressor of any type being used, no pipes blown, no hot water heater drained. a property that is on a shared water system with no way to turn the water off to the property have winterization signs palced with one gallon of antifreeze used.
> ...


Safeguard used to be great to work for. I would have to agree that most of the work that I've seen done by their vendors or subs or vendors in Utah, Nevada, Hawaii and Arizona have been piss poor. 

I do not believe that clown who says that's what SG expects. That makes no sense at all. SG expects the world am always have. 

My question is, is it worth it to really try saving this proverbial industry? I've been in this industry a while. There are good days and bad days. As I am sure every industry has those 

If we have no control over what we earn, how much work we want, and when we get paid....is it really out business? Even now, I have a few clients that I enjoy working for. If I don't like them, I drop them. It's that simple. 

They always end up calling me back and at that point at the prices i demand. Had they been upfront and honest from the start in ALL of their dealings with me, I'd be happy to do a few favors and take a few for the team. When the requests to do more favors exceed the profitable jobs....that's a sign to move on. Or change your bid process and profit margins. 

I have a meeting in Las Vegas on the 19th and won't make it up to Reno. I head out to AZ right after my meeting.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Adding to my thoughts on the original post. 4 gallons of antifreeze per house????? A 3 bedroom 2 bath with laundry room and kitchen can be done with a gallon or two. After flushing, use a suction gun to pull the remaining water out of the back tank. Do the same thing for the bowl. Being there is virtually nothing in the back tank, just a splash will make it pink and satisfy the QC people. A quart in each toilet bowl is very sufficient. A pint in each bathtub/shower and a couple of cups in each drain. In all the years of doing this I have never had an issue on POP & REO both. Even the vacation homes I do year after year for private clients are done the same way.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> Adding to my thoughts on the original post. 4 gallons of antifreeze per house????? A 3 bedroom 2 bath with laundry room and kitchen can be done with a gallon or two. After flushing, use a suction gun to pull the remaining water out of the back tank. Do the same thing for the bowl. Being there is virtually nothing in the back tank, just a splash will make it pink and satisfy the QC people. A quart in each toilet bowl is very sufficient. A pint in each bathtub/shower and a couple of cups in each drain. In all the years of doing this I have never had an issue on POP & REO both. Even the vacation homes I do year after year for private clients are done the same way.


 
4 gallons is what the specs call for...
one gallon FLUSHED through the system...the procedure you describe leaves water in the rim...
and two cups per trap...

That is where I come up with the antifreeze amount...
Completing the service to the specs....
I didnot make the specs...I was trained by FNMA and HUD service tech 7 years ago...$$$$ way better then...but we know that

so you have 2 commodes
and 6-8 traps depending on howmany sinks are in the vanity...shower and tub..
Even if you only use 3.5 which is the case 75% of the time the fourth gallon has been opened and has to be accounted** for in the breakeven analysis...

**You do only cost factor 3 at some point.

Anyways that is where my numbers come from.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> 4 gallons is what the specs call for...
> one gallon FLUSHED through the system...the procedure you describe leaves water in the rim...
> and two cups per trap...
> 
> ...



No clue, 500+ winterizes under my belt and 20 below temperatures here but never a broken toilet. I have broken toilet apart and have never seen anywhere in the rim that could hold water. there are drainholes all the way around the rim that drain completely.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

Here's a cutaway showing how one works. Again, no way for water to stay in the rim....


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

dont forget you want to put enough in to get the " House trap " splashed well the 5 inch black iron piece in the basement we use a vampire pump ( auto motive supply ) to clear the bowl and spit it into the sink or tub and leave no water at all the back tank we use a sponge but generally speaking the 1.5 bath house uses around 2 gallons when its city water but then well systems with treatment tanks thats a whole other thing there are way to many variables between properties to have hard and fast rules like in the case of a below boiler drain hot water heating system the only way to do that is put in a drain valve at teh low point or cryotek it i can go on about this for hours how about slab on grade buildings with plumbing in the concrete


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

michael.biasi said:


> dont forget you want to put enough in to get the " House trap " splashed well the 5 inch black iron piece in the basement we use a vampire pump ( auto motive supply ) to clear the bowl and spit it into the sink or tub and leave no water at all the back tank we use a sponge but generally speaking the 1.5 bath house uses around 2 gallons when its city water but then well systems with treatment tanks thats a whole other thing there are way to many variables between properties to have hard and fast rules like in the case of a below boiler drain hot water heating system the only way to do that is put in a drain valve at teh low point or cryotek it i can go on about this for hours how about slab on grade buildings with plumbing in the concrete




House trap??don't remember ever seeing one and i excavated city sewer and water connections for many years. I'm pretty sure a trap in a mainline is illegal per NPC.........


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

michael.biasi said:


> dont forget you want to put enough in to get the " House trap " splashed well the 5 inch black iron piece in the basement we use a vampire pump ( auto motive supply ) to clear the bowl and spit it into the sink or tub and leave no water at all the back tank we use a sponge but generally speaking the 1.5 bath house uses around 2 gallons when its city water but then well systems with treatment tanks thats a whole other thing there are way to many variables between properties to have hard and fast rules like in the case of a below boiler drain hot water heating system the only way to do that is put in a drain valve at teh low point or cryotek it i can go on about this for hours how about slab on grade buildings with plumbing in the concrete



As far as boilers with in slab plumbing, i use a hydrometer to see if the Cryotek is sufficient or not. If not i bid to bring a plumber in to flush and fill. Runs around $800 and the power MUST be activated. Have had 2 approvals in 4 years. The rest either activate utilities or leave them to break..................


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

this is my house trap


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

alrighty 

issue with the pics in in NY the last stop before your main sewer leaves the house is the " house trap " its usually 5 inch black or ABS/PVC and U shaped with caps on each side


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## 68W30 (Sep 8, 2012)

As far as boilers with in slab plumbing, i use a hydrometer to see if the Cryotek is sufficient or not. If not i bid to bring a plumber in to flush and fill. Runs around $800 and the power MUST be activated. Have had 2 approvals in 4 years. The rest either activate utilities or leave them to break..................

hydrometer works, but test strips work better and quicker ( available at plumbing supply ) we have done quite a few " cryotek wints " and in the case of no power we isolate the zones out take a big mop bucket make our mix drop in the pool or pond type pump that is drill driven and let it fly till it come out the other end and switch zones never got an OKYDOKE from a national but quite few brokers like it we get about 200 per zone this actually should be over in the wint string lol


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad we only have dry wints here....


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

michael.biasi said:


> alrighty
> 
> issue with the pics in in NY the last stop before your main sewer leaves the house is the " house trap " its usually 5 inch black or ABS/PVC and U shaped with caps on each side




Gotta be a NYC thing. PER NPC they are illegal from what my home inspector says. Never saw one out here. I have dug out a lot of clay tile drainline and replaced with PVC though............


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

They in Iowa too but located abt 2-3' from street main line. Plumber told us it was common in the houses built prior to 1940's that still had original sewer runs. It was "fairly" clear on his jetter camera as he explained


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

LOL.... I see you're all over-thinking this...SG an their regionals are a sh*t outfit in the lead for driving prices down industry wide, they push paper an photo's. If they could outsource the work to China an pay Chinese wages they would.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> LOL.... I see you're all over-thinking this...SG an their regionals are a sh*t outfit in the lead for driving prices down industry wide, they push paper an photo's. If they could outsource the work to China an pay Chinese wages they would.


 Boy Howdy...


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> LOL.... I see you're all over-thinking this...SG an their regionals are a sh*t outfit in the lead for driving prices down industry wide, they push paper an photo's. If they could outsource the work to China an pay Chinese wages they would.


Preach it BRO The fat cats (1%) get fatter while we are holding the liability and make them more $


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

As far as the thread starter asking if he has to sacrifice his integrity...no...maybe a little ego, and back-bone. If you want to work for Safeguard, you do what they ask. You can negotiate some, but for the most part, they act like they don't need you if you start showing some backbone and refusing work due to low pricing.

I do hundreds of dry wints a year for them. we use an air compressor. we use more then 3 ounces of anti freeze per bathroom. We aren't making tons of profit, but the paychecks come in and go out on a regular basis. The bills are paid, without too much juggling.

However, of late, I'm really getting frustrated. The other contractors in my zone are crap. I end up having to fix all their mistakes. I see what they get away with, and it makes me mad that they can (get away with it). But the worst problem is, there's no one to pass off those non-profit jobs too. SG wants me to handle all the work. I know, sounds like a good thing. It isn't. When they reduce our bids, They use pressure to make me complete the work. (there's that lack of back bone reason). If you stand up and say no. Here comes the "Well, we'll just have to get us another vendor. The money is just too good. I've tried talking to management, can't get any sympathy. it's, "Well that's just the way it is." I've added three employees in the last two month to keep up with the work load. If I quit working for SG, where do I go. The horror stories are just as bad with everyone else.

I'm not a licensed Gen contractor. I'm a trash hauling, grass cutting, handy man type outfit. We don't do major repairs. I am licensed, but not for renovations and such. So leaving this industry isn't really an option. I've tried getting in with the local real estate guys, they're all doing their own work. No local banks, all national banks who use national P&P companies.

sigh...I've realized I'm rabbling about my problems. Been a long day.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> As far as the thread starter asking if he has to sacrifice his integrity...no...maybe a little ego, and back-bone. If you want to work for Safeguard, you do what they ask. You can negotiate some, but for the most part, they act like they don't need you if you start showing some backbone and refusing work due to low pricing.
> 
> I do hundreds of dry wints a year for them. we use an air compressor. we use more then 3 ounces of anti freeze per bathroom. We aren't making tons of profit, but the paychecks come in and go out on a regular basis. The bills are paid, without too much juggling.
> 
> ...


Time to develop an exit strategy.


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

Good news is, my wife is a RN. She likes travel nursing, and the pay is way up there for a good travel nurse.

I may fold my tent, pack my bag and go with her. I'm sure i can find something to do part time in whatever town we arrive in.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> Good news is, my wife is a RN. She likes travel nursing, and the pay is way up there for a good travel nurse.
> 
> I may fold my tent, pack my bag and go with her. I'm sure i can find something to do part time in whatever town we arrive in.





My sis in law is an RN as well.


They are considering ND or AK.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Bama, you can do any damn thing in this country that you want to. Opportunity may not be knocking but if you look around you may see it passing by.


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