# Sticky  HUD HPIR And Backfeeding, Word from Osha.



## mtmtnman

Okay folks, For all of you who have lost work because you refused to backfeed electric to a house and ALSO for you folks that are performing this, You need to read this document from OSHA. Send it to your coordinators and pass it around to all the contractors you know. If you continue this practice after reading this you must have some deep pockets!!! Here is a direct link as it was too big to upload to this site. 

https://www.facebook.com/download/1423400831248385/REO Electrical Inspections monograph final.pdf

Their is also a public FB group for discussion here.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/278481852328203/


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## Wannabe

Your the man!


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## Bigtrucker

*Contractors protecting contractors*

Thanks for the info 
Wish more contractors had a back bone


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## Zuse

Thanks for doing some research for us buddy..this is a great post.


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## mtmtnman

Its just got old with 20 somethings in cubicles pushing me around . They act like they know it all when they really don't.


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## Bigtrucker

It's time for us to push back 
Don't you think
Contractors protecting contractors
Foreclosurepedia.org
He brought buczek ponziprize 
To there knees in less then 100 hours


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## Irnhrse5

If OSHA is aware of the problem, then why do they continue to allow it? If they wanted to put a stop to it, they could grab up the evidence, and cite everyone that backfed a house, and every company that has allowed a house to be backfed.


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## mtmtnman

Irnhrse5 said:


> If OSHA is aware of this problem, why on earth haven't they raided the HUD preservation offices and forced HUD to stop this practice yet?




HUD is NOT requiring this. They are requiring "alternative means" but not saying what those means are. Alternative means can be a VISUAL inspection. The Nationals came up with the backfeeding crap.....


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## Irnhrse5

mtmtnman said:


> HUD is NOT requiring this. They are requiring "alternative means" but not saying what those means are. Alternative means can be a VISUAL inspection. The Nationals came up with the backfeeding crap.....


I caught my mistake and edited my post. (I jumped the gun on that first post!)
The nationals keep records of all the back feeding that has taken place, as well as the companies who did it. Why not conduct an investigation, and cite the nationals for EVERY single one? It's 70,000 a property because it was a willful act. OSHA is pretty damn powerful.


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## mtmtnman

Irnhrse5 said:


> I caught my mistake and edited my post. (I jumped the gun on that first post!)
> The nationals keep records of all the back feeding that has taken place, as well as the companies who did it. Why not conduct an investigation, and cite the nationals for EVERY single one? It's 70,000 a property because it was a willful act. OSHA is pretty damn powerful.



Pretty easy to go to the hudhomestore.com and you can find plenty of contractors incriminating themselves. Just click a property, Go to Addendums and click Property Condition Report and you will find things like this.... *http://tinyurl.com/ncgf6lv*


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## mtmtnman

Here's a good one.....

*http://tinyurl.com/ng383hm*


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## mtmtnman

Of course their are already certain people trying to discredit Mr Grzywacz and myself on this..............


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## Gypsos

I just say no to stupid things. 

For example I got one now that wants the exact size for each screen enclosure opening. I said it doesn't matter, it is $40 per opening. He said his boss wants it before he approves it. I said if his boss wants to say the cost is different for different sizes that is fine as long as his total is at least $320 for eight openings.


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## PropPresPro

mtmtnman said:


> Of course their are already certain people trying to discredit Mr Grzywacz and myself on this..............



I hope that whoever it is isn't stupid enough to have a video of himself backfeeding a house posted on YouTube, when he starts to butt heads with OSHA on this one. :whistling2:


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## Jovashut

*Just want to know*

I just want to know where they found the photo of the or took pictures of the machine formed cord. This is not homemade as they say in the article, this is made on an assembly line and should be not even available to the general public.


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## GTX63

I believe the Chinese make a very fine product that is used primarily in third world countries. Ebay may be the best avenue for the new to this biz sub to create his own mushroom cloud.


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## mtmtnman

Jovashut said:


> I just want to know where they found the photo of the or took pictures of the machine formed cord. This is not homemade as they say in the article, this is made on an assembly line and should be not even available to the general public.



Photoshop..............


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## BPWY

PropPresPro said:


> I hope that whoever it is isn't stupid enough to have a video of himself backfeeding a house posted on YouTube, when he starts to butt heads with OSHA on this one. :whistling2:





This one?


https://www.youtube.com/v/-xgoXrhrpcM?version=3


Talk about being a hypocrite.


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## RServant

BPWY said:


> This one?
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/v/-xgoXrhrpcM?version=3
> 
> 
> Talk about being a hypocrite.


Hmm, it appears it's mysteriously vanished. Maybe that whole "I will find you and bring the full weight down" threat did the trick.

Edit: Meh, musta been the browser I was using. My apologies.


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## BPWY

It would be wise to take it down. Other wise there would be a need to narc out yourself and thats always embarrassing to say the least.



> Make no mistake whatsoever, if I find out a Contractor is performing these Back Feeds, I will find you. I will create an ISTAR Database File on you. I will bring the full force and effect of the weight of Foreclosurepedia down upon you and destroy your ability to continue to place communities in a clear and present danger.


http://foreclosurepedia.org/osha-the-reason-why-hud-3-8-may-come-to-a-crashing-halt/


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## mtmtnman

The big question is where does this go from here. Is anyone getting feedback from clients? Anyone have any solutions?


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## chelle33

This is the way they want you to word it they even give you a sheet to go by and use there wording. *Ex. Electrical was tested with a 220V Generator and was found functional*


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## PropPresPro

chelle33 said:


> This is the way they want you to word it they even give you a sheet to go by and use there wording. *Ex. Electrical was tested with a 220V Generator and was found functional*


 
What company is requiring this?
Do they actually require you to backfeed with the generator, or do they just say to test appliances?


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## Cleanupman

Regardless off who is requiring what...

Here in Nevada the Contractors board and per NRS..the law...electrical contractors are required to perform this service.

This goes back to something I have been saying for five years now...CHECK your local State contracting laws and state laws...The carry precedence over anything these f***ed up clients want you to do...

Not to be an ass...but until everyone starts protecting their butts and standing their ground on issues like this the madness will continue...
I have checked with our agencies...2 year prison sentence and a 10k fine per offense...$75 from PK is worth that????

People gotta start working smarter...


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## BPWY

BPWY said:


> This one?
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/v/-xgoXrhrpcM?version=3
> 
> 
> Talk about being a hypocrite.





BPWY said:


> It would be wise to take it down. Other wise there would be a need to narc out yourself and thats always embarrassing to say the least.
> 
> 
> 
> http://foreclosurepedia.org/osha-the-reason-why-hud-3-8-may-come-to-a-crashing-halt/












So when your extremely delicate ego is dealt such a major blow by the 2 sentences I posted here, this is the over the top bullying and character defamation that one resorts to. 

http://foreclosurepedia.org/paul-brickman-why-people-in-wyoming-are-the-problem-not-the-solution/

If the writer were half as smart as what he thinks he is he would know that not all info on the net is reliable. But I digress. 

Lets address all of the false hoods.

1. No sane person thinks that what I posted could be called "stone throwing" and a "tirade". What was directed at me is clearly those two things. Pot and kettle much?

2. Calling me a sexual predator is just pure evil. Having just passed two rigorous background checks since the first of the year because of the customers I have I'll let that one stand for itself.

3. Calling me a hack and a craigslist hack is completely laughable. I don't even advertise on CL or get work from CL. So explain how my company is a CL hack?
More character defamation.
My company has been a member of the Greater Cheyenne Chamber of Commerce for a handful of years and is BBB accredited. Explain again how this is a hack business.

4. Time in business, completely wrong. 2011 is the year my very small business incorporated. But was not the start date of my business. Many many businesses start as a sole proprietor and as they grow and get more exposure eventually incorporate.

5. Taxes, again more lies. Taxes paid late as some times happens to all businesses is not what hes insunuating. "it is his inability to pay his taxes"
This is the sole item in the tirade that could even be slightly close to true. 
Once again, he that is without sin can cast the first stone.

6. He thinks I do P&P now days. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Haven't done P&P in well over a year.

7. Again more lies speaking of work photos....


> show multiple OSHA, Wyoming Department of Transportation and municipal violations. Whether one wants to talk about the proper use of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) or the tying down and tarping of debris when in transit; how about those license tags


There are no OSHA violations, there are no WYDOT violations or municipal or PPE or transporting or license tag violations. These are the sad and pathetic false claims of a very small ego and a very very thin skin that can't handle even the slightest criticism. 

8. And then the very last lie, that is easily disprovable. Claims that my FB business page has only 8 likes. LMFAO, try 6 times that many. 
Check the link, its right there.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brickman-Property-Services-LLC/268149293217845

So if he so blatantly lied about number 8 every thing else posted is also of serious dubious truth.


These are the actions of a butthurt child that is acting like a school yard bully and trying to make his own pathetic existence feel better about himself by tearing down other folks characters. 
I am not a loud mouth on the internet hiding in an underground bunker with my own website that makes a habit of trying to destroy other people's characters. Like some one else we all know. 


This is stands as notice to immediately cease and desist of all current and future character defamation.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> So when your extremely delicate ego is dealt such a major blow by the 2 sentences I posted here, this is the over the top bullying and character defamation that one resorts to.
> 
> http://foreclosurepedia.org/paul-brickman-why-people-in-wyoming-are-the-problem-not-the-solution/
> 
> If the writer were half as smart as what he thinks he is he would know that not all info on the net is reliable. But I digress.
> 
> Lets address all of the false hoods.
> 
> 1. No sane person thinks that what I posted could be called "stone throwing" and a "tirade". What was directed at me is clearly those two things. Pot and kettle much?
> 
> 2. Calling me a sexual predator is just pure evil. Having just passed two rigorous background checks since the first of the year because of the customers I have I'll let that one stand for itself.
> 
> 3. Calling me a hack and a craigslist hack is completely laughable. I don't even advertise on CL or get work from CL. So explain how my company is a CL hack?
> More character defamation.
> My company has been a member of the Greater Cheyenne Chamber of Commerce for a handful of years and is BBB accredited. Explain again how this is a hack business.
> 
> 4. Time in business, completely wrong. 2011 is the year my very small business incorporated. But was not the start date of my business. Many many businesses start as a sole proprietor and as they grow and get more exposure eventually incorporate.
> 
> 5. Taxes, again more lies. Taxes paid late as some times happens to all businesses is not what hes insunuating. "it is his inability to pay his taxes"
> This is the sole item in the tirade that could even be slightly close to true.
> Once again, he that is without sin can cast the first stone.
> 
> 6. He thinks I do P&P now days. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Haven't done P&P in well over a year.
> 
> 7. Again more lies speaking of work photos....
> 
> There are no OSHA violations, there are no WYDOT violations or municipal or PPE or transporting or license tag violations. These are the sad and pathetic false claims of a very small ego and a very very thin skin that can't handle even the slightest criticism.
> 
> 8. And then the very last lie, that is easily disprovable. Claims that my FB business page has only 8 likes. LMFAO, try 6 times that many.
> Check the link, its right there.
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brickman-Property-Services-LLC/268149293217845
> 
> So if he so blatantly lied about number 8 every thing else posted is also of serious dubious truth.
> 
> 
> These are the actions of a butthurt child that is acting like a school yard bully and trying to make his own pathetic existence feel better about himself by tearing down other folks characters.
> I am not a loud mouth on the internet hiding in an underground bunker with my own website that makes a habit of trying to destroy other people's characters. Like some one else we all know.
> 
> 
> This is stands as notice to immediately cease and desist of all current and future character defamation.



Does this mean I have to stop teasing you to #BrokeBackWY? Has that FB business page helped you any?


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## GTX63

You should be flattered he thinks your words carry so much weight.

I think it was Uncle Si that said "Sometimes a little bad publicity is good as long as it gets your name out there."


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## BPWY

GTX63 said:


> You should be flattered he thinks your words carry so much weight.
> 
> I think it was Uncle Si that said "Sometimes a little bad publicity is good as long as it gets your name out there."





Lol, I thought of that. And the fact that he thought little ole me was worth wasting so much of his time on is hilarious as well.


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## Wannabe

Just another of a long long list of reasons that this foreclisuremedia has ZERO credibility.


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## PPPrincessNOT

WOW...... just wow.........


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## iron moe

this ones is easy guys. go to PK management they do all the hud work. They wanted to do that crap and i told them no way in hell and have not worked for them since


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## MYMONEY1

mtmtnman said:


> The big question is where does this go from here. Is anyone getting feedback from clients? Anyone have any solutions?


 CHECK YOUR pm mtmtmtman


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## bigdaddy

I really could care less about this whole HIPR backfeeding because I don't work for nationals, however OSHA can **** OFF! They have ZERO authority over me by their own admission on their home page:
*OSHA Jurisdiction:*


Excludes self-employed, family farm workers, and government workers
You guys are always crying that you are self-employed but now you are going to ask OSHA to treat you like an employee??
Pick one or the other for christ sake!
Again, I could care less and I agree that these craigslist hacks shouldn't be doing them but as a licensed contractor I can properly backfeed all day long and there is nothing OSHA can do about it!


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## RServant

bigdaddy said:


> I really could care less about this whole HIPR backfeeding because I don't work for nationals, however OSHA can **** OFF! They have ZERO authority over me by their own admission on their home page:
> *OSHA Jurisdiction:*
> 
> 
> Excludes self-employed, family farm workers, and government workers
> You guys are always crying that you are self-employed but now you are going to ask OSHA to treat you like an employee??
> Pick one or the other for christ sake!
> Again, I could care less and I agree that these craigslist hacks shouldn't be doing them but as a licensed contractor I can properly backfeed all day long and there is nothing OSHA can do about it!



The obvious is that OSHA does not approve of backfeeding. You're throwing the baby out with the bath water.


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## mtmtnman

bigdaddy said:


> I really could care less about this whole HIPR backfeeding because I don't work for nationals, however OSHA can **** OFF! They have ZERO authority over me by their own admission on their home page:
> *OSHA Jurisdiction:*
> 
> 
> Excludes self-employed, family farm workers, and government workers
> You guys are always crying that you are self-employed but now you are going to ask OSHA to treat you like an employee??
> Pick one or the other for christ sake!
> Again, I could care less and I agree that these craigslist hacks shouldn't be doing them but as a licensed contractor I can properly backfeed all day long and there is nothing OSHA can do about it!



Yeah good luck with that. They may not get you but the power company can and will. In some of the Hurricane states the penalties include jail time. I'm not an attorney although as a sub contractor you agree to follow all national state and local rules and regulations and OSHA would fall under that. You scenario only works if you are the general getting paid from the owner..............


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## mtmtnman

If you own a business, and you self perform your services, the regs do not apply to you. (other than you agreeing to follow all national, state and local regs in the contract you signed) Say you have a buddy partnered with you, still the same answer as both are partial owners. Now, you get sooo busy that you have to HIRE a secretary to schedule your work......the regs now apply to *all of you* because now you have an employee, same goes for picking up a day laborer at Home Depot, even though you are going to pay him under the table he is still an employee which moves your company into a different category, oh and let that illegal get hurt and you are on the hook for his workers comp. It has, and continues to happen every day.............


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## TheGreanTeamInc

They will try to force you to do things their way, just do it the right way and in the next year at least one of you will still be around to live after the ashes.


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## GTX63

Remember, both ends of a male to male suicide cord are energized. Whether you are plugged into the wall to complete a PCR or you are backfeeding your own house during a blackout, all it takes is for someone to trip across the cord and jerk it out of the wall; you then have a live wire on the ground with exposed contacts.


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## bigdaddy

GTX63 said:


> Remember, both ends of a male to male suicide cord are energized. Whether you are plugged into the wall to complete a PCR or you are backfeeding your own house during a blackout, all it takes is for someone to trip across the cord and jerk it out of the wall; you then have a live wire on the ground with exposed contacts.


This is why I stated I could PROPERLY backfeed a house all day long. Using a suicide cord is not the PROPER WAY, in fact its plain stupid!
However if you hard wire a 10 ga cord directly to a 30 amp breaker and use an interlocking plug and pull the meter it is perfectly legal around here.
As a licensed contractor I do it all the time while doing rehabs and never once had an inspector or power company tell me I couldn't.
Again, its the difference between a licensed contractor and some hack P&P wannabee contractor. Sometimes I forgot where I am:confused1:


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## GTX63

bigdaddy said:


> However if you hard wire a 10 ga cord directly to a 30 amp breaker and use an interlocking plug and pull the meter it is perfectly legal around here.
> As a licensed contractor I do it all the time while doing rehabs and never once had an inspector or power company tell me I couldn't.


Your local utility is ok with you pulling their meters? Where would "around here" be? I've used licensed electricians from Chicago to Ky and not a single one would have pulled a meter on their own without risking serious repercussions, and it is almost always prohibited in writing.


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## BPWY

GTX63 said:


> Your local utility is ok with you pulling their meters? Where would "around here" be? I've used licensed electricians from Chicago to Ky and not a single one would have pulled a meter on their own without risking serious repercussions, and it is almost always prohibited in writing.





I have yet to see a local utility that would allow ANY tampering with their meters.

Most are posted that severe fines will occur from tampering with a meter.


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## BRADSConst

bigdaddy said:


> This is why I stated I could PROPERLY backfeed a house all day long. Using a suicide cord is not the PROPER WAY, in fact its plain stupid!
> However if you hard wire a 10 ga cord directly to a 30 amp breaker and use an interlocking plug and pull the meter it is perfectly legal around here.
> As a licensed contractor I do it all the time while doing rehabs and never once had an inspector or power company tell me I couldn't.
> Again, its the difference between a licensed contractor and some hack P&P wannabee contractor. Sometimes I forgot where I am:confused1:


I'm not sure where you are located but that is not legal around here. We follow NEC in Wisconsin and the only legal way to energize a property with a generator is a permanently installed transfer switch.

As for pulling a meter, not happening either. The tamper clips around here now have electronics in them. Cut the loop and break the circuit and the POCO and building inspector will be there in no time flat. My electrician told me this and my buddy who tried to upgrade his panel found out the hard way. Got a call 15 minutes after he pulled the meter asking for my license numbers and the phone number for my electrician.


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## thanohano44

BRADSConst said:


> I'm not sure where you are located but that is not legal around here. We follow NEC in Wisconsin and the only legal way to energize a property with a generator is a permanently installed transfer switch.
> 
> As for pulling a meter, not happening either. The tamper clips around here now have electronics in them. Cut the loop and break the circuit and the POCO and building inspector will be there in no time flat. My electrician told me this and my buddy who tried to upgrade his panel found out the hard way. Got a call 15 minutes after he pulled the meter asking for my license numbers and the phone number for my electrician.



Not everyone knows the IEC or law.


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## GTX63

Most meters in rural areas we service are locked with a specialized key/tool. Other than the utility and fire fighters, I know of no one who has one (legally).


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> Not everyone knows the IEC or law.





Some that do know do not care and do not follow the laws.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> Some that do know do not care and do not follow the laws.



For me. I just don't want any innocent people killed because an unqualified CL hack decides to half step the process. I'm very grateful for all you sparkys out there.


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## Prather Guy

Here is a video that some may find interesting related to generator hook up. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkbBt8hv8mQ

It's fairly basic but it may help with some of the discussion taking place. This in principal is the same thing as the "back feeding" term that is being used & is simple to do - for some of us anyway

NOTE - meant to just put in a link


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## MrOilyNails

I love that site... http://foreclosurepedia.org/


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## rbsolutions

mtmtnman said:


> Okay folks, For all of you who have lost work because you refused to backfeed electric to a house and ALSO for you folks that are performing this, You need to read this document from OSHA. Send it to your coordinators and pass it around to all the contractors you know. If you continue this practice after reading this you must have some deep pockets!!! Here is a direct link as it was too big to upload to this site.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/download/1423400831248385/REO Electrical Inspections monograph final.pdf
> 
> Their is also a public FB group for discussion here.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/278481852328203/


 first of all why would you back feed power into a home , you would be doing that from a generator .. common sense says to just take a cord off the receptacle on generator . if you are doing this not only do you need to stop you need to pack it up and leave you are a risk


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## mtmtnman

rbsolutions said:


> first of all why would you back feed power into a home , you would be doing that from a generator .. common sense says to just take a cord off the receptacle on generator . if you are doing this not only do you need to stop you need to pack it up and leave you are a risk



Nationals where/are requiring this on REO initial services to test lighting, appliances including furnaces, air conditioners, check outlets for power Ect..................


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## Miller Preservation

Thanks for the post man, great info.

As a side note, does anyone know of a good place to buy water heaters in Michigan? I find myself needing to go to Home Depot or Lowe's where I get ripped off and spend a pile of money. Thanks for any feedback.


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## blueheeler

Hey Folks, long time lurker, first time poster...
So, have to ask, has anyone else been waiting for the latest batch of HPIR work to arrive? Training, info packs, lock codes to stock up on and... nothing... just us or is there a whole lot of "hurry up and wait" lately?

I know all cards are played close to the chest here but in general, anyone else see the latest push as much ado about nothing?

Thanks in advance.


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## deputy138

*forclosurepedia*



Bigtrucker said:


> It's time for us to push back
> Don't you think
> Contractors protecting contractors
> Foreclosurepedia.org
> He brought buczek ponziprize
> To there knees in less then 100 hours


Mr. Williams is the man. If you need his help he's there with you, google his site very interesting!!!


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