# Failed De-winterizations



## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

What is your company's policy on failed De-winterizations. In most cases I have been able to get paid in full on them, or close. Honestly the pressure test and troubleshooting is 90% of the de-wint in my opinion, but that can be difficult to explain to a 20 something office worker. I'm getting a little push back on one today. I guess I will just make it clear in the future, that the price is the same pass or fail. Any thoughts, or unique solutions.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Just as in a winterization...doesn't matter if the pressure test fails or passes the service is still completed


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Just did a $26,000 remediation/restoration job for a P&P Contractor who dewinterized a home and 3 days later piping busted and flooded home  Love ya guys doing dewints. To bad they weren't licensed plumbers since he is paying it out of pocket cause his General Liability wouldn't pay for work they weren't licensed for. 

Got another 1 just today where the Service Provider had their P&P contractor install a sump pump (musta forgot to hook up the pipe after putting it in the hole) and their Insurance Adjuster asked where the permits were? UHHHH They didn't pull 1 since they weren't licensed Plumbers? 

Gotta love it


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

Wannabe said:


> Just did a $26,000 remediation/restoration job for a P&P Contractor who dewinterized a home and 3 days later piping busted and flooded home  Love ya guys doing dewints. To bad they weren't licensed plumbers since he is paying it out of pocket cause his General Liability wouldn't pay for work they weren't licensed for.
> 
> Got another 1 just today where the Service Provider had their P&P contractor install a sump pump (musta forgot to hook up the pipe after putting it in the hole) and their Insurance Adjuster asked where the permits were? UHHHH They didn't pull 1 since they weren't licensed Plumbers?
> 
> Gotta love it


I would like to see someone try to get me or my insurance co. to pay for damages incurred by not heating their building, I know these cases get settled, but they really have no leg to stand. You do not need a plumbing license to turn on the water. I am responsible for reasonable diligence, and a good faith effort. Choosing to not heat your property is the risk, it wouldn't take much of a lawyer to demonstrate that.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Your right! Problem is: when YOU add the Service Company ONTO your policy then they can (and will) file the claim on your policy. The adjuster comes out (I am that adjuster on occasion) and they will find a way NOT to pay the claim (Boy that is easy with all the negligence) then the claim comes back on the contractor.

Viscious business........ Your also right that you don't have to be licensed to "turn the valve on" (thats only the valve) BUT when you dewintz a property you are acting as a plumber certifying the integrity of the domestic water system (that requires a licensed plumber) to have insurance coverage for the completed operations you performed...... just saying 

Some States may not license plumbers but where we work they do.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

Good then they can sue me when the insurance company doesn't pay, It'll be fun. I certify nothing except system held x pressure for x minutes, and the main is turned back off and tagged with dated pressure test results and zip tied when I leave. You don't leave water systems unattended after they have been dry and in at freezing temps. Turning off the heat creates the risk.


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## ontimepres (Jan 4, 2013)

Who's is out there doing dewints without ALL of the utilities on? Every dewint order I've seen includes setting the thermostat to 55 degrees.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

yep its stupid to dewinterize and zip tie all the valves and set the heat to 55 then they (in their infinite wisdom) not pay the power bill and BAM the place freezes and floods.... You lose everytime. You "may" win in court BUT you lose paying out all the lawyer fee's and court costs... I know...been there done that.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

Here in PA, that case would never make it past the District Magistrate. And as a contractor of near thirty years, I know not to take a lawyer to one of those. Utility records are easy to get, a picture of the red tag on the meter base would seal that deal. Anyone with $24 can sue you. I'm really more interested in getting paid pass or fail. The only thing I do that is stupid, where winterizations are concerned, is I sometimes de-winterize other contractors winterizations, even the guys who I know screw them up, because I've cleaned up the cast iron shards. It still kinda boggles my mind to see how far cast iron radiator pieces can fly.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

If you have the photos the regional requires and the information regarding the issues, then there should be no problem, that is if the regional is reputable.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

"if the regional is reputable."

Is that like jumbo shrimp or military intelligence?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yes, it is.


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

If you're there to de-wint, and the plumbing doesn't pass the pressure test. The water stays off. Period. I still want to be paid for the de-wint. But, as most of us, I'm not a plumber. Don't want to be. I follow the guidelines and instructions provided by the company wanting the wint or de-wint. And I have the photos to support.

Most of our properties fail the pressure test anyways. Our water utility is quick to pull a meter. And it's a $500 fine to tamper with anything in the water meter box. And yes that includes installing any kind of plug or cap.
So we do the best we can blowing the lines when the system won't hold pressure.

As a side note, fortunately, we are on the Gulf coast. It never freezes down here.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> If you have the photos the regional requires and the information regarding the issues, then there should be no problem, that is if the regional is reputable.


Well, this is a national, and they got me on it, this time. I won't happen again. On the other hand in the mean time they sent me some really nice bid approvals, so it is what it is. I have come to expect about 3% of my work to be disapproved either through my own mistakes or e.g. wrong pictures, wrong this or that, outright thievery. I try to add in 5% or so whenever I can to "pre-adjust" the "adjustments".


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> I have come to expect about 3% of my work to be disapproved either through my own mistakes or e.g. wrong pictures, wrong this or that, outright thievery. I try to add in 5% or so whenever I can to "pre-adjust" the "adjustments".


And that's sad. That you, and the rest of us, have come to expect to be cheated.


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