# Winterization Equipment & Tips



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm using a general title to help with future searches. If you do any preservation work at all, this time of year should see your inbox filling with winterization orders. For the newbs and the folks wanting a little guidance, I'm looking for the experienced crews to input some information about what they are using, ie, compressors, time saving tips, photo technique, helps, etc.
Lot of PP people new to this biz need a little more guidance than just what the regional gives them. I'm not starting this thread for contractors with no experience to jump in and get their feet wet. Spend time with a journeyman first. Anything from blowing out radiators, draining wet heat systems, minimum cfms needed, etc. Lets see where this goes and maybe some people can use it for reference down the road.


----------



## MKT (May 7, 2014)

Put a rock on it :thumbsup:


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Use this-


instead of this-


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

We are coming across a lot of properties this fall, as we do every year, that have been previously winterized by national/regional subs and have partially filled water tanks, residual water left in lines, etc.

I just left a property that had been signed off by a competitor during the summer of 13. He is a decent enough guy who uses hobby equipment. He thinks that if all the national is going to pay is $70, then he isn't upgrading his tools. The supply lines to the 2nd floor bath ruptured across a 20' horizontal run over the dining room. The home inspector was there watching water rain from the textured plaster ceiling. We handled the repairs and billed the going rate thru the seller's agent. This guy could have bought some really top end equipment for what he is about to pay for the damages to this property. A walmart compressor with out sufficient cfms to quickly pressurize the water heater/system and blow lines means the sub is wasting time and risking a big payback.
Check your compressor specs and make sure yours is up to the task. If you are billing what you are worth, they will pay for themselves in a day.


----------



## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

I can't see how anyone can use a compressor with less than 7.5 cfm at 90#. The only thing we use is a heavy duty wheelbarrow type gas compressor. We have an extra 10 gal. remote pressure tank if the hot water heater is gone. We have all kinds of adapters with "shark bite" type end to garden hose adapter (3/4", 1/2" ect.) and a hand full of shark bite end caps to plug lines to attempt to pressurize local lines that are missing faucets or fixtures. 
Wet wints are the ones that are the hard jobs and they take an experience boilermaker. I will only attempt to drain a VERY simple system and won't do anything that has in-floor heat, those I bid to have a 3rd party professional. Too much can go wrong and these systems are expensive. Same with radiators if it's a steam system it's not that bad if it's pumped water it take forever to drain as it's gravity that get the water out. Better know what your doing.


----------



## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

This is why I say "you better know what your doing" 
http://www.preservationtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3916


----------



## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

*my wint eqt*

I have a 100 ftself winding hose reel, bought a system to run from my motor to my air compressor kinda like a generator but runs off my fuse box in my truck .. I do use plug ins when i can, but having the self winding reel helps. i can blow a house out in 15-mins or so i just tug it and let it reel up while i grab all my otherstuff... only thing i have to carry in is a hose and the air attachments


----------



## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Make sure you have plenty of air.*

Be sure and do a stand alone test and print your own stickers with a good disclaimer, also include this disclaimer or definition of the object and







limits of the winterization procedure on any report, or checklist or at least in the comment section. I stole mine from LPS stickers. One thing we often loose sight of is: The cause of freeze damage is not heating the building, it is not the winterization.


----------



## MNP&P (Nov 26, 2012)

Remove aerators and close toilet valves prior to pressurizing the system. Also remove shower heads, cap and pressure test. Cap and pressure test frost free outdoor hose spigots. I see many freeze damaged frost free spigots, usually due to improper installation or leaving the hose connected over winter.


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

MNP&P said:


> I see many freeze damaged frost free spigots, usually due to improper installation or leaving the hose connected over winter.


 Wonder how many guys are driving away from a property and only then realize they never opened the outside faucet?
Also make sure to check garages and outbuildings. We have had several that run supply lines from the house to the garage for wet sinks, toilets, etc.


----------



## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Also, make sure it is it is legal for you to perform winterizations in your area. 

In Florida the way the law reads if you do any work to a property that requires you to connect anything (i.e. pressure gauges, air compressor, etc.) to the water system then you must be a state licensed plumbing contractor. 

If you do not believe me than ask your insurance agent if you CGL or E&O insurance would cover repairs if you are found at fault for damage due to a faulty winterization. 

If he says yes get it in writing so you can sue his E&O insurance when the claim is denied by your insurance.


----------



## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

There is a long-time SG contractor around my area that leaves his disclaimer stating "broken pipes" on ALL his winterizations, even if the system is fine.. Must do it to limit his liability. I just wonder how he gets away with it without bidding for the "repairs" He must state that "not a lics. plumber, or out of my scope of work" as technically you have to be a lisc. plumber in MN. to repair plumbing.


----------



## cover2 (Apr 3, 2013)

garylaps said:


> There is a long-time SG contractor around my area that leaves his disclaimer stating "broken pipes" on ALL his winterizations, even if the system is fine.. Must do it to limit his liability. I just wonder how he gets away with it without bidding for the "repairs" He must state that "not a lics. plumber, or out of my scope of work" as technically you have to be a lisc. plumber in MN. to repair plumbing.


 90% of safeguard winterizations around here do have broken pipes because they were done by safeguard to begin with!!:whistling2:


----------



## UnitedFieldInspections (Dec 20, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> We are coming across a lot of properties this fall, as we do every year, that have been previously winterized by national/regional subs and have partially filled water tanks, residual water left in lines, etc.
> 
> I just left a property that had been signed off by a competitor during the summer of 13. He is a decent enough guy who uses hobby equipment. He thinks that if all the national is going to pay is $70, then he isn't upgrading his tools. The supply lines to the 2nd floor bath ruptured across a 20' horizontal run over the dining room. The home inspector was there watching water rain from the textured plaster ceiling. We handled the repairs and billed the going rate thru the seller's agent. This guy could have bought some really top end equipment for what he is about to pay for the damages to this property. A walmart compressor with out sufficient cfms to quickly pressurize the water heater/system and blow lines means the sub is wasting time and risking a big payback.
> Check your compressor specs and make sure yours is up to the task. If you are billing what you are worth, they will pay for themselves in a day.


Almost all of the properties i winterized had the water meter disconnected and the lines and tank filed with water.Lets not forget the tanks filled with water.


----------



## MNP&P (Nov 26, 2012)

*Use personal protective gear.*

I wear eye and ear protection while winterizing as well as gloves. Keep in mind you are pressurizing a system with potential freeze damaged components. I have seen freeze damaged water heaters blow apart at the seam at 60 psi. I once had a plastic water heater drain valve shatter while opening with a channel lock sending plastic pieces and rust bits deep into my hand. Be careful and protect yourself.


----------



## Irnhrse5 (Apr 18, 2013)

*The toliet pump!*



GTX63 said:


> Use this-
> 
> 
> instead of this-


 
Everyone should carry one of those! I see contractors all the time with tiny pumps or no pumps at all. Or that. Its nasty.


----------



## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

I've looked high and low to find a good tudorial on correctly completing a infloor heat system or even a good tudorial on a simple zoned baseboard boiler system. anyone have a good link?
Also, What have you guys been doing with water softners specificly the cylinder type "culligan" style?


----------



## MNP&P (Nov 26, 2012)

*Hydronic systems.*

I know a plumber who winterizes hydronic systems by draining and refilling with glycol. He then fires up the boiler and brings the system up to temp and purges with all zones open. Then shuts the boiler down and tests the specific gravity of the glycol mixture in the boiler to verify freeze protection. The last one he did was upwards of $1100 and it was a 1200sqft in floor with two loops.


----------



## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*That's the only way to really winterize a system*



MNP&P said:


> I know a plumber who winterizes hydronic systems by draining and refilling with glycol. He then fires up the boiler and brings the system up to temp and purges with all zones open. Then shuts the boiler down and tests the specific gravity of the glycol mixture in the boiler to verify freeze protection. The last one he did was upwards of $1100 and it was a 1200sqft in floor with two loops.



Even domestic supplies. This draining and leaving the heat off, is not a winterization, it is draining, that's it. Some bean counter figured out it is a little bit cheaper to have you drain them and not heat them. And if they can stick you with the liability of their poor decision, even better,win win. I have a property or two that I winterized above and beyond the outlined procedures, that still had some minor damage, it happens, water coalesces in certain spots, and that's just the way it is. Just letting air into the system causes damage also, especially in older plumbing.


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Not uncommon during dewinterizations to have faulty toilet flush valves, rusted shut off valves, faucet seals blow, etc. Why? The rubber seals dried out, the valves rusted. Yes, in older plumbing, leaving them without pressure and dry can in many cases, cause problems as well. The obvious difference in doing them for nationals vs direct is liability.


----------

