# New



## NAPP2015 (Dec 30, 2014)

Hey everybody I am new to the property preservation business. I am currently employed with a job working 2nd shift with about 36hrs a week. How long should I keep my full time job before trusting my entire income on property preservation? And how long should I expect until my company can grow into a full time job?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)




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## NAPP2015 (Dec 30, 2014)

Any other suggestions?


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Honest? 

Take the jump! There are tons of success stories and a couple of "bad" stories too....

My motto: if you keep doing what you have always done then you will only get what you have always got.

But remember: currently you are able to pay your bills and when you decide to full time P&P you might not be able to.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

NAPP2015 said:


> Any other suggestions?


The three people including myself that have replied to your post do NOT do preservation work for Nationals or Regionals. That in an of itself should tell you something.....:thumbsup:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> Honest?
> 
> Take the jump! There are tons of success stories and a couple of "bad" stories too....
> 
> ...


:sad: That's not being very nice to the Newbie who doesn't get your sarcasm. :lol::lol:


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## NAPP2015 (Dec 30, 2014)

BRADSConst said:


> :sad: That's not being very nice to the Newbie who doesn't get your sarcasm. :lol::lol:


If property preservation is not the best route; what would be a better route to take? What does you and your company specialize in?


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

not to be mean but use the search function. There are plenty of posts covering this very subject. Just remember that every day in this business prices go down from the previous day. If you follow the advise of this forum (as i did) you will be a lot happier.

Good luck and choose wisely


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## NewYork (Mar 22, 2014)

*p&p*

if your new to the business you probably don't have any employees this business to get going off the ground if self employed you will need to give yourself 6-9 months before a steady stream of checks come in during day 45-60 to the 180 day period because of work orders seasonality and you being new you will get checks but its based on the limited orders you will get based on what I wrote earlier that's also if you align yourself with a good company and if the pay cycle is what they said otherwise it delays everything 
based that its january plan thru september for steady checks .

also not sure where you are but zip codes play a huge part as well based on the work load.:thumbup::thumbsup:GOOD LUCK WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED


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## NAPP2015 (Dec 30, 2014)

NewYork said:


> if your new to the business you probably don't have any employees this business to get going off the ground if self employed you will need to give yourself 6-9 months before a steady stream of checks come in during day 45-60 to the 180 day period because of work orders seasonality and you being new you will get checks but its based on the limited orders you will get based on what I wrote earlier that's also if you align yourself with a good company and if the pay cycle is what they said otherwise it delays everything
> based that its january plan thru september for steady checks .
> 
> also not sure where you are but zip codes play a huge part as well based on the work load.:thumbup::thumbsup:GOOD LUCK WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED


Thanks for the reply it was very helpful. Yes, starting out I plan to be self employed. " 45 -60 to the 180 day period" can you elaborate more on this? Is this the time frame it takes to receive checks from your work order? I am located in North Alabama 35601


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## NAPP2015 (Dec 30, 2014)

I am located in north Alabama 35601 zip code


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## NAPP2015 (Dec 30, 2014)

hammerhead said:


> not to be mean but use the search function. There are plenty of posts covering this very subject. Just remember that every day in this business prices go down from the previous day. If you follow the advise of this forum (as i did) you will be a lot happier.
> 
> Good luck and choose wisely


Hey thank you for the reply. Im new to the site also, but I will definitely start using the search function. Thanks


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I'm not as negative as most here about P&P*

I will however tell you this. If you have not been in the contracting business before. This is no industry in which to start. You should try doing some other contracting first. They will eat you alive if you don't have the negotiating skills, the judgment to immediately recognize a bad deal or the confidence to just say no. I have had a great time and made some good money, even some really easy money,while others doing exactly the same thing, in exactly the same areas have lost their a$&, but I have decades of experience to draw on. If you don't, find something else.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Napp2015,

I apologize for my comments since Brad may be right that you missed the sarcasm. 

I really hope this thread is only to fire everyone up  one of the old timers BPWY always says if you want to make a million dollars in the P&P business start with 2 million. 

The train left the station many years ago and there is no opportunity to make a business profitable in the P&P field. Take your skills to the private sector where YOU control your destiny. 

Good luck


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Property Preservation when working for a national or regional is a loser.
For every one poster that comes on and explains how they are making a mint, there are nine more asking how they can get company X to pay them what they are owed.
As was mentioned, look at the post counts of the members in threads directing newbs to get local and private clients. 
Look at the post counts for those who come on here with payment/back charge issues.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Property Preservation when working for a national or regional is a loser.


Exactly! :thumbsup: Property preservation in and of its self can be profitable. HOWEVER, not through regionals or nationals. Work with realtors, apartment complexes, possibly investors (they're sometime cheap), etc. Another words, PRIVATE customers that you find and you set the prices for. :thumbsup:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

We aren't selling seminars at the Holiday Inn and charging you for books and tapes. Everyone that comes to this site just needs to use the search option and when asking for advice, look to the left below the poster's avatar at the join date and the post count. This is all free.

Nationals-
Pay rates are 50% or less than the going market rate.
Additional discounts for simply giving you work.
10% or more held back for QC, chargebacks, whatever they choose.
45-60 days before payment or longer, many times after lien rights have expired.
Requirements such as insurance specific to the client far and above the norm.
Required training, conference calls, financial audits and reports.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Was a full time P&P contractor for five years. Full time = 100+ hours per week.

Got tired of being at the beck and call of my customers 24/7 for everything from house secures to trash removal to evictions to lawn cuts. 

Finally cut the strings a few months ago and went back in to construction management. I only work 60 hours per week, drive a company truck, use company gas, and am done when I go home. I make almost as much as I did working for myself without the stress and headaches. 

Now I get to be the neighbor calling the banks and complaining every time the P&P contractor does not mow the lawn next door correctly. :thumbsup: 

If there is any other profession you can work in that will pay your bills I say do that.


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

The veterans have all diversified, you do not want to put all your eggs in the P&P basket. The industry is too unstable, clients come and go, etc. I had to relocate years ago due to loosing a client, now I do well with a few nats. Stay away from safeguard whatever you do! You will be out of business in a yr if you get in bed with them. The good ole days are gone, but there is still money out there. Like the others said, try realtors. You will be expected to do lawn maintenance, so its a good idea to drum up homeowners to work for. We lost 2 clients over the past 6 yrs, and each provided us 65% of our workload. I cannot stress enough to not put all your eggs in the basket, you could wake up one day with no work, and it could be completely out of your control.

And my personal top 3 nats are LPS, 5 bros, and NFR. Everyone has different experiences with different companies. I know I will get beat up on the 5 bros one by guys here,maybe even the others, but we make it work, and they have Wells Fargo at the moment where im at. Good luck! :thumbsup:


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## RI preservstion (Mar 21, 2013)

i got a question for all the guys bashing the preservation industry, if you cant make money and you guys are out of the business why do u spend countless hours on her talking about preservation work on every single thread?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Guess you don't read much. I'm not out of the preservation industry. I just don't work for third party carpet baggers.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Would you believe we have more time? When most of your work is Private Party you tend to make more money with less time involved. Work smarter not harder. 

I do a few lock changes a week in my spare time for realtors that net an extra $1000 a week for MAYBE 3 hours time. Beach money 

Oh yeah I did do 3 evictions in November. We got $45/hr per man (4 man minimum) from realtor, paid by bank.. 4 hr minimum PLUS travel time and $.52/mile. Didn't pay enough but it was a favor since SG would have done it and the Realtor did not want them..


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

RI preservstion said:


> i got a question for all the guys bashing the preservation industry, if you cant make money and you guys are out of the business why do u spend countless hours on her talking about preservation work on every single thread?


I don't have a problem with the work of "preservation". My problem lies in the companies (nationals and regionals) that try to control and monopolize it. 

I too am not out. I do profitable work. I still rehab foreclosures. My friends are here. Not sure what else I can tell you about why I post here.

I guess I could ask a similar question...Why do guys who got screwed by Safeguard come here and bitch? After all, they have been warned numerous times by those of us that, according to your words "cant make money".

If you don't like the advice provided by those of us that "can't make money", feel free to ignore everyone of my posts, as well as countless others. Your loss........:icon_rolleyes:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

NAPP2015 said:


> If property preservation is not the best route; what would be a better route to take? What does you and your company specialize in?


 I'd like to think that my company is specializing in making more money for less effort. As for what that is and how I'm going about it, I need to dial back what I share on that. Came to find out recently that one of my competitors has been hanging around here following my big mouth :wallbash:.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

RI preservstion said:


> i got a question for all the guys bashing the preservation industry, if you cant make money and you guys are out of the business why do u spend countless hours on her talking about preservation work on every single thread?


If we can stop people from working for the NATS and the regionals the business would be a great one to be in. Some of us want to help guys get their due from Nats and Regionals to put the squeeze on those companies. 

I would love to see every contractor on this board go to their local city and state regulatory commissions and lay out exactly what is going on and how.

I just talked to a contractor that said he expanded into another state last week. I said are you licensed there? He said "nah, we just drive over there and knock'em out!" 

I would like to see change, major change revolutionary like change.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*i personally am thankful they do/did*



RI preservstion said:


> i got a question for all the guys bashing the preservation industry, if you cant make money and you guys are out of the business why do u spend countless hours on her talking about preservation work on every single thread?



It saved my a lot of heartaches when I first started. It did cause me to work with a bit more caution, and that effected my bottom line somewhat negatively looking back, but at least I did not bet the whole farm.


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

> I do a few lock changes a week in my spare time for realtors that net an extra $1000 a week for MAYBE 3 hours time.


 Bull...or you have the stupidest realtors alive where you are.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

You should price what you are worth.


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Bull...or you have the stupidest realtors alive where you are.


Interesting response.

I assume you feel that way about wannabe's post because you can't possibly fatham that kind of charge for the work he listed? That doesn't mean it's bull. A lot of us 'old skoolers' have learned over the years that we will no longer take the good with the bad, or that we are no longer willing to 'lose some' in order to 'win some'. 

Although I can't say that I have made the same amounts changing locks that wannabe is posting he made, I do routinely net (yes, net) $300-500 per hour doing the same work for local banks, credit unions and realtors that national service companies pay low double digits for. No, I do not make that kind of money all the time, but it does add up to at least $1,000 per week on average, just like wannabe posted he is doing. 

This kind of money_* is*_ charged and paid for services in this industry whether you want to call BS or not.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

I do Rekeys for realtors all the time. I get $60.00 per lock so that's $120.00 per door sometimes. It can add up especially if there are sheds and outbuildings at $40.00 per padlock. I'm Not sure if I've ever made a $1,000.00 in a week from lock changes but I will tell you it's a nice addition to our regular billing. The other bonus is I bid everything while I'm there. So I get paid to bid the trash out and other services.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Bull...or you have the stupidest realtors alive where you are.


 Out of all the all the people that I have talked with on here and on the phone, which I consider friends, the only person here I have personally met and broke bread with is Wannabe. This much I can guarantee: He is not full of bull. The guy knows what he is worth and gets it :thumbsup:

I did an inspection last year for a reverse mortgage. Took me less than 45 minutes at the property. I was taking my time because the lady taking out the mortgage was there and I was trying to justify billing a $135 for an inspection. I wouldn't make a special trip for that $135 inspection, I only scheduled it when working in that town 30 minutes from my home. People here doing $3 inspections for SG will also think I'm full of chit too.


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

As I said, "or you have the stupidest realtors alive where you are." 

I don't recall anything being said that he didn't know what he was worth. I just don't believe there is that many homes, a week, each and every week, that the realtor hasn't figured they can get the same task performed for at least half, and more in line for what the job is worth, for half the annual amount of $52,000...that's all that I am saying. For you to get what you did for an inspection is very believable to me. ONE TIME! 

I'm not saying he doesn't do this weekly. I'm saying he isn't working 156 hrs making $52,000, or he sure wouldn't be here posting he is working 156 hours making $52,000. :thumbsup:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

There is an ongoing mindset that just doesn't ever seem to evolve. Maybe it is created by National preservation companies and labor ready style subs who just haven't worked for anyone other than "that place in Ohio".
It is probably part of the reason so many fall for the "Volume is King" baloney.

Realtors use contractors they can trust, and when they can find good ones, hang on to them. They use contractors that answer the phone, don't disappear from earth or are drama queens. I ran my own company long before I got that first call from Yahoos in a Suite, LLC. I have brokers I've have done business with since 1998. They don't want clowns for 1/2 price, they want to make a call and know it will be done on time and right.
If you are gaining entry to every rekey job with channel locks and a right boot, then you are good for $25 a lock. If you have the equipment and inventory and the knowledge of a locksmith then bill for it. 

If you cannot believe there are tradesmen charging two or three times the rates for work you are paid, after your client does their "qc", then sorry for you. You can either be insulted and stay where you are at, not believe it and stay where you are at, realize you can only bill for your current skill level, and stay where you are at, or wake up.

Many of the long time posters to this forum have turned into lurkers or occasional followers because they get tired of answering the same questions and arguing over whether there is another world that pays real money.

Lastly, the forum Preservation Talk split from, was populated with journeyman professionals who could not grasp the concept of people working under such a ponzi scheme that companies such as Safeguard use. They considered preservation contractors fools and suckers. We felt they deserved better than that, and an opportunity to learn how to get away from the bloodsuckers, not try to adapt to it.

A National's "Industry Standard" is not mine.


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## cover2 (Apr 3, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> There is an ongoing mindset that just doesn't ever seem to evolve. Maybe it is created by National preservation companies and labor ready style subs who just haven't worked for anyone other than "that place in Ohio".
> It is probably part of the reason so many fall for the "Volume is King" baloney.
> 
> Realtors use contractors they can trust, and when they can find good ones, hang on to them. They use contractors that answer the phone, don't disappear from earth or are drama queens. I ran my own company long before I got that first call from Yahoos in a Suite, LLC. I have brokers I've have done business with since 1998. They don't want clowns for 1/2 price, they want to make a call and know it will be done on time and right.
> ...


:clap::clap::clap: By far the most informative and dead on post in a long while. Every newbie and anyone contemplating joining this circus should read this over and over again until it sinks in! Bravo!!!


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Field Audit,

GTX hit it ON THE SPOT!

It is being done. I will say I don't know how many hours I actually work a week doing lock changes since I merge this in while doing other things BUT I figure I avg 3 hours a week. We avg 4-5 houses per week (some weeks more and some weeks less). Of course we have expenses but locks are fairly cheap. 

It's not what we charge or how much we work it's all about Relationship Building. For Private Party work it's vital to build relationships with your customers. You need to be the "go to" contractor. We use lock changes as a lead source for mold jobs and client interaction. 


Today I gotta drive 3 hours 1 way to estimate a mold job for a realtor because we "get the job done". We are the "go to" contractor. Oops might not go today since a large winter snow is coming this afternoon and why risk the vehicles.


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## K&L preservation (Oct 28, 2013)

Why can't you beleive that, because you can't get it? I charge 95 just for a knob lock double that for a deadbolt and knob set.. your time, fuel, wear on truck, auto and gl insurance, materials, state and fed income tax, drive time, knowing they can call me at 3 in the morning and I answer put clothes on and walk out the door to fix leaking pipes and pump a basement out, the declining value of the dollar all factor into pricing for services rendered.. I own a buisness and will continue to stay floating.. I dont do this just to put another 20 rock in my crack pipe.. my business my prices if I don't get it oh well, turn my back and walk away. Not my loss.. agents have higher standards then safeguard or afas, and will pay for it. You know the value of the dollar compared to about 10 yrs ago is $0.61 and declining so if you charge $100 for something your lossing $39 in todays market due to inflation.. common high school economics.. so my prices inflate to fit my needs and expenses... don't understand that I'm 26 and most that are twice my age can't.. maybe its because I play cards with kenny rogers..


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> The three people including myself that have replied to your post do NOT do preservation work for Nationals or Regionals. That in an of itself should tell you something.....:thumbsup:


Heres another one.




NAPP2015 said:


> Hey everybody I am new to the property preservation business. I am currently employed with a job working 2nd shift with about 36hrs a week. How long should I keep my full time job before trusting my entire income on property preservation? And how long should I expect until my company can grow into a full time job?





Honestly I'd keep your job, even if you cut back to 20 hrs a week. 

This way your foot is still in the door for when P&P doesn't pan out. 
Don't mean to be sour grapes but right now is a time of major turmoil in the industry and low pay for the guy actually doing the work. 

What is your plan for when you only rely on P&P and suddenly the company you're in deep with quits paying and goes BK??????
Now what?


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> As I said, "or you have the stupidest realtors alive where you are."
> 
> I don't recall anything being said that he didn't know what he was worth. I just don't believe there is that many homes, a week, each and every week, that the realtor hasn't figured they can get the same task performed for at least half, and more in line for what the job is worth, for half the annual amount of $52,000...that's all that I am saying. For you to get what you did for an inspection is very believable to me. ONE TIME!
> 
> I'm not saying he doesn't do this weekly. I'm saying he isn't working 156 hrs making $52,000, or he sure wouldn't be here posting he is working 156 hours making $52,000. :thumbsup:







Feel free to believe what ever you want. 


That belief does not make it a reality. 



Wannabe is not a BSer, and he has a big heart to help those in the industry that will help themselves. 
Me personally I've spent HOURS on the phone with him discussing various aspects of business. Not just specific to P&P. 
Hes a wise man, many would do well to listen to, not being derisive and making fun


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

NAPP2015 said:


> Hey everybody I am new to the property preservation business. I am currently employed with a job working 2nd shift with about 36hrs a week. _How long should I keep my full time job before trusting my entire income on property preservation? And how long should I expect until my company can grow into a full time job?_


forever....


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## RI preservstion (Mar 21, 2013)

drive 3 hrs one way to a property? i could cover 5 states driving 3 hours, maybe this is why the industry doesnt work for some people, i dont drive longer than 20-30 min to a property


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

RI preservstion said:


> drive 3 hrs one way to a property? i could cover 5 states driving 3 hours, maybe this is why the industry doesnt work for some people, i dont drive longer than 20-30 min to a property


Lol. I could only wish! BPWY AND those Western crews have it a lot worse.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

RI preservstion said:


> drive 3 hrs one way to a property? i could cover 5 states driving 3 hours, maybe this is why the industry doesnt work for some people, i dont drive longer than 20-30 min to a property


I drive 3 hrs when it's necessary. Remember we are not talking about driving 3 hrs to do a maid refresh.:thumbup:


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