# Thank You to the P&amp;P Business



## Guest

This is the Anti Anti Post on the P&P Business. Not all has been bad!

P&P business enabled our business to:

Pay cash for new Ford F250 4x4 trucks
Pay cash for new building 44x64 2 story tall
Pay for all the educational requirments to travel the country attending schools for a "secondary business" that has grown into our Primary Business
Pay cash for all our remediation equipment
Pay cash for all our general contracting equipment
Pay cash for 9 trailers (dump trailers and landscaping trailers)
Pay cash for skidsteer and skidsteer trailer
Pay cash for numerous trips
Pay cash for 36' new 5th wheel for our "mobile office"

This is not to brag since this is able to be done/accomplished by anyone in this business. It takes savvy, it takes determination, it takes risk taking, it takes working 24/7 and the best negotiation skills that the contractor can muster!

Discounts? All are negotiable! FAS 10%, MCS 15%, Safeguard 12%. There are things that P&P Contractors can learn. 

I have helped many P&P contractors to accomplish the same success and I KNOW it can be done. 

Is it harder today? YES
Is the pay being quoted to the contractors less? YES

It still can be done! Might take longer. 

I quit the P&P business with ALL Nationals/Regionals effective 11/1/11 due to a number of reasons and I am busier now than ever before. No discounts, No timetables and NO chargebacks.

I now work *WITH* the Preservation business and not *FOR* the preservation business. Big difference. 

Like any business the only thing of true value is *YOU*. 

GOOD DAY!

p.s. thank you Paradox for making us think of the possibilities. Youth make us old timers have to sit back and contemplate. For that I say Thanks:thumbsup:


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## Craigslist Hack

FremontREO said:


> This is the Anti Anti Post on the P&P Business. Not all has been bad!
> 
> P&P business enabled our business to:
> 
> Pay cash for new Ford F250 4x4 trucks
> Pay cash for new building 44x64 2 story tall
> Pay for all the educational requirments to travel the country attending schools for a "secondary business" that has grown into our Primary Business
> Pay cash for all our remediation equipment
> Pay cash for all our general contracting equipment
> Pay cash for 9 trailers (dump trailers and landscaping trailers)
> Pay cash for skidsteer and skidsteer trailer
> Pay cash for numerous trips
> Pay cash for 36' new 5th wheel for our "mobile office"
> 
> This is not to brag since this is able to be done/accomplished by anyone in this business. It takes savvy, it takes determination, it takes risk taking, it takes working 24/7 and the best negotiation skills that the contractor can muster!
> 
> Discounts? All are negotiable! FAS 10%, MCS 15%, Safeguard 12%. There are things that P&P Contractors can learn.
> 
> I have helped many P&P contractors to accomplish the same success and I KNOW it can be done.
> 
> Is it harder today? YES
> Is the pay being quoted to the contractors less? YES
> 
> It still can be done! Might take longer.
> 
> I quit the P&P business with ALL Nationals/Regionals effective 11/1/11 due to a number of reasons and I am busier now than ever before. No discounts, No timetables and NO chargebacks.
> 
> I now work *WITH* the Preservation business and not *FOR* the preservation business. Big difference.
> 
> Like any business the only thing of true value is *YOU*.
> 
> GOOD DAY!
> 
> p.s. thank you Paradox for making us think of the possibilities. Youth make us old timers have to sit back and contemplate. For that I say Thanks:thumbsup:


Great Post man! This is the kind of stuff I want to know. How to do it? What works what doesn't? Positive stuff not whining and complaining.


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## GTX63

We use the same business practices. We are cash only. No debt.
It take determination and very hard work. When you can do this in business you free yourself from the dependency on every crumb a client gives you. You quit paying to work for your customers.
This is not something you can start and finish in 30 days, it becomes a lifestyle, but if you stick with it and push thru the hard times you will not regret it.
We started out with two people, one truck and a borrowed trailer.
All our equipment, land, real estate, etc is now fully paid for free and clear. It's no fun having a entry level cubicle rat from some national tell you how to do a job, when you will do it and how little you will be paid, or else. It is however, refreshing to have the ability to say "No" to a National and not worry if they will never send you work again.


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## mtmtnman

GTX63 said:


> We use the same business practices. We are cash only. No debt.
> It take determination and very hard work. When you can do this in business you free yourself from the dependency on every crumb a client gives you. You quit paying to work for your customers.
> This is not something you can start and finish in 30 days, it becomes a lifestyle, but if you stick with it and push thru the hard times you will not regret it.
> We started out with two people, one truck and a borrowed trailer.
> All our equipment, land, real estate, etc is now fully paid for free and clear. It's no fun having a entry level cubicle rat from some national tell you how to do a job, when you will do it and how little you will be paid, or else. It is however, refreshing to have the ability to say "No" to a National and not worry if they will never send you work again.


Yeah, No is a GREAT word isn't it! I'm in the same boat but for different reasons. I almost went broke in in the mid 2000's I started listening to Dave Ramseyand have been cash ever since. Just under 4 years in P&P has bought me:

5 trailers
Commercial truck mount carpet extractor
Portable extractor
2 gas powered air compressors
2 Commercial zero turns
Billy Goat brush mower
4x4 4 wheeler for plowing small accounts
Fisher Vee plow for large accounts
New to me 1 ton truck
30 HP compact tractor,loader, tiller and mower
and numerous other small tools and equipment.


While it has been a good ride it could have been a lot better if the rates where not run down so low by people willing to work for nearly nothing..............


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## Guest

And on a side note: Dave Ramsey should be a required course for high school students.


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## mtmtnman

Paradox said:


> And on a side note: Dave Ramsey should be a required course for high school students.



Damn straight. College too but the credit card companies would go ballistic about that.......


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## Guest

Paradox said:


> And on a side note: Dave Ramsey should be a required course for high school students.



AGREED! Found Dave Ramsey back in 2003 and it changed our life!


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## david

so im taking all of you took this dave ramsey class and got rich???


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## Guest

d+jhomeservices said:


> so im taking all of you took this dave ramsey class and got rich???


"Rich" is a very subjective term. The class essentially teaches you about the evils of credit, how to live within your means, the benefits of paying with cash, and how to build wealth no matter your income.

The solution to the current economic situation is to elect Dave Ramsey as "U.S. Money Czar." All new budgets/spending proposals have to have his stamp in order to be passed.


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## david

paradox i think most normal people know using credit is not good,but some really have no choice in life if they survive,not saying his classes are not good or are'nt beneficial,just average person should know this.some will never live within their means no matter what,1 reason is they think they cant lose their job,ive seen it time after time then they have no clue what to do.


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## mtmtnman

Here's my opinion (mirrors Dave in many ways) I was a fan of Dave Ramsey BEFORE i got into P&P but when i started doing property inspections for banks 4 years ago i became a true believer. While doing inspections i would pull up in front of nice homes. Out front would sit a late model pickup, new sport utility, Camper, Boat, 4 wheelers, a couple of snowmobiles, satellite TV, Big screen through the window Etc. One of the spouses would loose their job and BAM! Can't afford the house payment! You know damn well they didn't PAY for the vehicles and toys, they had notes on them. I would venture to guess 1/2 of the foreclosures are caused by people having to much crap and NO savings. 

If you can't pay for it in cash, (toys, tv's, furniture etc.) do you really need it? If your struggling why not cut off the cable and read a book or newspaper? Cook at home and pack your lunch for work! Beans and rice go a LONG WAYS! For one pizza delivered i can feed a family of 4 supper for 3-4 nights! Taking a family of 4 to the movies 1 night will rent 2 movies from a redbox every Friday night for 3 months. Putting 3-400 into your old vehicle is only 1 months payment on a new rig!

Vehicle example, I own a 92 Ford Explorer. Bought it with cash in 2007 with 92,000 miles on it for $2400. I have put 1 set of tires, 1 set of plugs and wires, 1 set of brakes on the front, 1 water pump, 1 starter and resealed the valve covers. Totsl cost of around $1000. Today it has 159,000 miles on it. Now buy a new one and put 67,000 miles on it and tell me what it's worth compared to what you bought it for. I have less in my old explorer in 5 years than i would have had in 1 year of new payments. I can still sell mine for $1500 so for what i have had to put into it the old Explorer has cost me .03 cents a mile. Not to mention that i put permanent license plates on it when i bought it for $125 (one time fee on a 10+ year vehicle for life) and a new explorer would cost me $400 for plates for the 1st 4 years. Waaaay to many people in this country live Waaaay to far beyond their means. That is the biggest problem IMHO.


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## david

totally agree mtmt i drive a 94 ranger and it problaby runs as good as any new 1 on the road,almost 300,000 miles on it...we know what we all need to do,question is how many do it though


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Here's my opinion (mirrors Dave in many ways) I was a fan of Dave Ramsey BEFORE i got into P&P but when i started doing property inspections for banks 4 years ago i became a true believer. While doing inspections i would pull up in front of nice homes. Out front would sit a late model pickup, new sport utility, Camper, Boat, 4 wheelers, a couple of snowmobiles, satellite TV, Big screen through the window Etc. One of the spouses would loose their job and BAM! Can't afford the house payment! You know damn well they didn't PAY for the vehicles and toys, they had notes on them. I would venture to guess 1/2 of the foreclosures are caused by people having to much crap and NO savings.
> 
> If you can't pay for it in cash, (toys, tv's, furniture etc.) do you really need it? If your struggling why not cut off the cable and read a book or newspaper? Cook at home and pack your lunch for work! Beans and rice go a LONG WAYS! For one pizza delivered i can feed a family of 4 supper for 3-4 nights! Taking a family of 4 to the movies 1 night will rent 2 movies from a redbox every Friday night for 3 months. Putting 3-400 into your old vehicle is only 1 months payment on a new rig!
> 
> Vehicle example, I own a 92 Ford Explorer. Bought it with cash in 2007 with 92,000 miles on it for $2400. I have put 1 set of tires, 1 set of plugs and wires, 1 set of brakes on the front, 1 water pump, 1 starter and resealed the valve covers. Totsl cost of around $1000. Today it has 159,000 miles on it. Now buy a new one and put 67,000 miles on it and tell me what it's worth compared to what you bought it for. I have less in my old explorer in 5 years than i would have had in 1 year of new payments. I can still sell mine for $1500 so for what i have had to put into it the old Explorer has cost me .03 cents a mile. Not to mention that i put permanent license plates on it when i bought it for $125 (one time fee on a 10+ year vehicle for life) and a new explorer would cost me $400 for plates for the 1st 4 years. Waaaay to many people in this country live Waaaay to far beyond their means. That is the biggest problem IMHO.


Glad to see other like minded individuals on here.


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## mtmtnman

d+jhomeservices said:


> totally agree mtmt i drive a 94 ranger and it problaby runs as good as any new 1 on the road,almost 300,000 miles on it...we know what we all need to do,question is how many do it though


Sitting here watching the news right now and i see the big problem. People are too wrapped up in STUFF!!! 2 people shot at Wal-Mart getting STUFF for Christmas??? (things here in Montana where extremely quiet) WTF is wrong with people? Wonder how much debt people racked up today???? They MIGHT have got a good deal but when they get done paying the interest it won't look so rosy!!!!


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## david

i was'nt 1 of them:clap:


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## Guest

*I thank the business*

For letting me and the wife go to best buy last night and wait in line and get a nice 40 inch tv for 200 dollars,of course that was paid cash along with a nice new tablet.

The busines also let me put on a wonderful spread for all my family.The last year the landscaping business got real bad and thank god we where successful in getting in with a few nationals and they carried us for the year.I didn't want to lay off anybody and we still stayed 13 employees strong and we are looking to bring on a few more bodies for the winter season and beyond.

This business is a hard one but after reading post from the veterans,it was easy to stay on course


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## mtmtnman

MKM Landscaping said:


> For letting me and the wife go to best buy last night and wait in line and get a nice 40 inch tv for 200 dollars,of course that was paid cash along with a nice new tablet.
> 
> The busines also let me put on a wonderful spread for all my family.The last year the landscaping business got real bad and thank god we where successful in getting in with a few nationals and they carried us for the year.I didn't want to lay off anybody and we still stayed 13 employees strong and we are looking to bring on a few more bodies for the winter season and beyond.
> 
> This business is a hard one but after reading post from the veterans,it was easy to stay on course



Not to squash your TV joy but did you read the reviews on that TV? I was all set to buy one till i read up a bit. Still using a 15 yr old 26" box here...


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## Guest

That I did not,for 200 just give me a year or 2.

I might get some heat for this but I am a big time american express kinda of guy.I have recieved some great tv's from them that have never been less than perfect.The 200 dollar one was for my wifes daycare she needed a tv for her business,hang it on the wall and hope it don't fall


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> Glad to see other like minded individuals on here.






The only notes I have is the wife's car and the house.


The car will be paid for next year.



Its been painful to get here.

All of my quality used lawn care equipment along with my NEW lawn care trailer was cash money paid for in the spring..... thanks to the big Screw and the work they gave me over last winter.


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## Guest

> Discounts? All are negotiable! FAS 10%, MCS 15%, Safeguard 12%. There are things that P&P Contractors can learn.


I believe that is is able to be accomplished by being able to offer a wide territory that covers more than one state. I do not believe that just anyone can do this...


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## Craigslist Hack

I sold everything we owed on 4 years ago. Paid everything off and started saving. We bought a house at a tax sale, paid cash and are living in it. We have a couple of rentals that are also paid for. All of our vehicles and equipment are paid for. I still have to rent a tractor for some jobs and some larger tools but all in all it's really not that hard.


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## Guest

d+jhomeservices said:


> totally agree mtmt i drive a 94 ranger and it problaby runs as good as any new 1 on the road,almost 300,000 miles on it...we know what we all need to do,question is how many do it though


Must not be enough work if your driving junk :laughing::laughing:
But how much do you have in the bank


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> Sitting here watching the news right now and i see the big problem. People are too wrapped up in STUFF!!! 2 people shot at Wal-Mart getting STUFF for Christmas??? (things here in Montana where extremely quiet) WTF is wrong with people? Wonder how much debt people racked up today???? They MIGHT have got a good deal but when they get done paying the interest it won't look so rosy!!!!


Billings is where u be


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## mtmtnman

XLARGEX said:


> Billings is where u be


8 hours northwest of there...................


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## mtmtnman

XLARGEX said:


> Must not be enough work if your driving junk :laughing::laughing:
> But how much do you have in the bank



The old vehicles are more dependable than what you can buy today. I'm in the market for another 95-97 Ford Diesel. If the spigot shut off today, i could live comfortably for 6 months with my savings and most likely longer.......


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## Guest

For us we were in a very bad place financially back in 03. We bought too much house, had lines of credit, cc, and a truck pmt. No one in our family taught us about $$ as they didnt know. I lost my job and we weren't making ends meet. I had no propane in the middle of winter and the electric co came to turn my power off. Too heat our house we went dumpster diving at a local truss company for wood to burn in our woodstove.

We found Dave Ramsey and immediately knew what we had to do. It seems so simple once he laid it out. We sold everything we could. We had our envelopes. I could stretch a roasted chicken like nobody’s business! In a matter of 3yrs we paid off our debt, got our 6-9 month emergency fund ect. I found a job with a great commission structure which really helped us move along. Its amazing how when your responsible with $$ its almost like you get rewarded along the way. 

We pay cash for everything. We just swapped out our work trucks and actually bought OLDER Dodge 12V Cummins. We bought older because they are simple, reliable, Ez to work on, you can make loads of power and can get good mileage. 

Along our journey, we sold 1 house, and built 2 others. We never build up just pay down. We hope to OWN our home in the next year.

The MAIN objective of this program DISCIPLINE and responsibility! This country, and especially my era doesn’t have discipline. We deserve. I want it. I don’t want to wait for it. I want it NOW "Like a child in the cereal aisle"

So when things are slow or we have to change gears in our business, we are still OK. It drives me crazy being slow because I like to work, I like to make progress. It takes a lot of stress out of an already stressful situation.

I recommend Dave Ramsey to everyone I know. Its NOT EZ, its NOT quick. But if you dedicate yourself, work hard and are faithful with it, you will be rewarded in the end.

"stepping off my soapbox" Thank You


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## Racerx

ARpreservation said:


> For us we were in a very bad place financially back in 03. We bought too much house, had lines of credit, cc, and a truck pmt. No one in our family taught us about $$ as they didnt know. I lost my job and we weren't making ends meet. I had no propane in the middle of winter and the electric co came to turn my power off. Too heat our house we went dumpster diving at a local truss company for wood to burn in our woodstove.
> 
> We found Dave Ramsey and immediately knew what we had to do. It seems so simple once he laid it out. We sold everything we could. We had our envelopes. I could stretch a roasted chicken like nobody’s business! In a matter of 3yrs we paid off our debt, got our 6-9 month emergency fund ect. I found a job with a great commission structure which really helped us move along. Its amazing how when your responsible with $$ its almost like you get rewarded along the way.
> 
> We pay cash for everything. We just swapped out our work trucks and actually bought OLDER Dodge 12V Cummins. We bought older because they are simple, reliable, Ez to work on, you can make loads of power and can get good mileage.
> 
> Along our journey, we sold 1 house, and built 2 others. We never build up just pay down. We hope to OWN our home in the next year.
> 
> The MAIN objective of this program DISCIPLINE and responsibility! This country, and especially my era doesn’t have discipline. We deserve. I want it. I don’t want to wait for it. I want it NOW "Like a child in the cereal aisle"
> 
> So when things are slow or we have to change gears in our business, we are still OK. It drives me crazy being slow because I like to work, I like to make progress. It takes a lot of stress out of an already stressful situation.
> 
> I recommend Dave Ramsey to everyone I know. Its NOT EZ, its NOT quick. But if you dedicate yourself, work hard and are faithful with it, you will be rewarded in the end.
> 
> "stepping off my soapbox" Thank You


Big Dave fans here also....


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## mtmtnman

ARpreservation said:


> This country, and especially my era doesn’t have discipline. We deserve. I want it. I don’t want to wait for it. I want it NOW "Like a child in the cereal aisle"



What's Dave call it? Instant gratification? It's amazing what people will put on their credit cards and then pay interest on. Then you have places like Rent A Center renting to own furniture!! Just get something cheap from Craigslist and put money in a cookie jar until you can afford to pay for something in cash! Then buy something nice that will last you for 20 years!! 

Buy QUALITY with cash. My folks have been married for 41 years. Mom STILL has the original set of pots and pans she got when they got married. I bought the same brand (West Bend) 15 years ago and plan to have them just as long. I have cast iron skillets from my grandmother that are over 70 years old! 

When we went broke it was not from loads of credit card debt. We had a mortgage (convertable construction loan) and 1 car payment. Our problem is we had all of our eggs in one basket (jobs) and both worked for the same company which was a small business. I was an apprentice electrician and my wife was working for the owners wife cleaning resort properties. The couple started having marriage problems and the businesses went in the chitter. 1 week before we went 2 months default on our construction loan, the neighbor bought the house and paid off the loan. We had 40K of our own $$$$ in it plus all the blood, sweat and tears as we built it ourselves. The only thing we hired out was Well, Septic and a crew for 2 days to set the walls and trusses. Otherwise we did all the work ourselves so we actually lost a lot more than the 40K cash.


Our goal right now is to put 50% down on the house we are leasing by 2014 and have it paid off by 2018. I will NEVER pay interest on anything else again know how skewed the credit system is. 

I more funny story before i get to work. A good friend of mine was a farmer in the midwest. He sold his farm to a developer about 15 years ago for near 3 million dollars. He bought a nice piece of land, built a paid for house Etc. He still drives old pickups (kinda like Sam Walton) and pays cash for everything. About 5 years ago he was gonna spring for a new car for his wife. He has a large net worth and is in his 60's, Why not? He picks out the car and gets out the checkbook to pay for it and the young sales kid says, "Hey, This car is eligible for 0% for 36 months. Why not keep your money in the bank and take the financing?" My friend said what the hell and filled out the application. HE WAS DENIED!!!!!!!! A guy with a 3-4 million dollar net worth cannot get a car loan???? Here is how skewed the credit system is. He hadn't borrowed a dime for anything in 10 years and had virtually no credit score!! But a guy who robs Peter to pay Paul, has 4 credit cards and pays his bills every month could have gotten the loan! Who is the better risk??? The broke guy with a bunch of consumer debt or the multi-millionaire?? Here's the best part. My friend gets his checkbook out and PAYS for the car and the young sales kid asks him, "is this check good?"  The younger generation has no clue! And YES, like a poster above stated. Dave Ramseys FPU should be taught to EVERY high school senior before graduation...........


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> What's Dave call it? Instant gratification? It's amazing what people will put on their credit cards and then pay interest on. Then you have places like Rent A Center renting to own furniture!! Just get something cheap from Craigslist and put money in a cookie jar until you can afford to pay for something in cash! Then buy something nice that will last you for 20 years!!
> 
> Buy QUALITY with cash. My folks have been married for 41 years. Mom STILL has the original set of pots and pans she got when they got married. I bought the same brand (West Bend) 15 years ago and plan to have them just as long. I have cast iron skillets from my grandmother that are over 70 years old!
> 
> When we went broke it was not from loads of credit card debt. We had a mortgage (convertable construction loan) and 1 car payment. Our problem is we had all of our eggs in one basket (jobs) and both worked for the same company which was a small business. I was an apprentice electrician and my wife was working for the owners wife cleaning resort properties. The couple started having marriage problems and the businesses went in the chitter. 1 week before we went 2 months default on our construction loan, the neighbor bought the house and paid off the loan. We had 40K of our own $$$$ in it plus all the blood, sweat and tears as we built it ourselves. The only thing we hired out was Well, Septic and a crew for 2 days to set the walls and trusses. Otherwise we did all the work ourselves so we actually lost a lot more than the 40K cash.
> 
> Our goal right now is to put 50% down on the house we are leasing by 2014 and have it paid off by 2018. I will NEVER pay interest on anything else again know how skewed the credit system is.
> 
> I more funny story before i get to work. A good friend of mine was a farmer in the midwest. He sold his farm to a developer about 15 years ago for near 3 million dollars. He bought a nice piece of land, built a paid for house Etc. He still drives old pickups (kinda like Sam Walton) and pays cash for everything. About 5 years ago he was gonna spring for a new car for his wife. He has a large net worth and is in his 60's, Why not? He picks out the car and gets out the checkbook to pay for it and the young sales kid says, "Hey, This car is eligible for 0% for 36 months. Why not keep your money in the bank and take the financing?" My friend said what the hell and filled out the application. HE WAS DENIED!!!!!!!! A guy with a 3-4 million dollar net worth cannot get a car loan???? Here is how skewed the credit system is. He hadn't borrowed a dime for anything in 10 years and had virtually no credit score!! But a guy who robs Peter to pay Paul, has 4 credit cards and pays his bills every month could have gotten the loan! Who is the better risk??? The broke guy with a bunch of consumer debt or the multi-millionaire?? Here's the best part. My friend gets his checkbook out and PAYS for the car and the young sales kid asks him, "is this check good?"  The younger generation has no clue! And YES, like a poster above stated. Dave Ramseys FPU should be taught to EVERY high school senior before graduation...........


This country is built on debt and using debt as a tool. When I worked for the banks, I used my credit cards to pay all of my expenses and paid it off before interest was charged. I use the credit card to gain points for united airlines so. I would earn enough per year for 2 round trip tickets back to Hawaii. I had a $30k credit line. Never paid a penny of interest for 6 years. 

I never used more than $8k on it. Shortly after leaving the company and my 15 month severance expired, it dropped from an employee credit card to a regular platinum card. Soon there after they cut my limit down to $10k. Then I got a offer that I'm so familiar with. Transfer your balances over to your Citicard at 0%APR for 12 months and no balance transfer fee. My LoC went back up to $30k as I paid $30k off my mortgage with a balcon check. (earned no points)Paid it off before the 12 months and my LoC was still at $30k. Bought a lot of tools and supplies for the business with it and paid it off within the month with our first set of receivables. Started running everything through our business accounts and credit cards. I now only use that card when there is a 0% balance transfer APR offer. Haven't had one in a year. I'm so surprised they haven't sent an offer like that in Q4.


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## mtmtnman

thanohano44 said:


> This country is built on debt and using debt as a tool. When I worked for the banks, I used my credit cards to pay all of my expenses and paid it off before interest was charged. I use the credit card to gain points for united airlines so. I would earn enough per year for 2 round trip tickets back to Hawaii. I had a $30k credit line. Never paid a penny of interest for 6 years.
> 
> I never used more than $8k on it. Shortly after leaving the company and my 15 month severance expired, it dropped from an employee credit card to a regular platinum card. Soon there after they cut my limit down to $10k. Then I got a offer that I'm so familiar with. Transfer your balances over to your Citicard at 0%APR for 12 months and no balance transfer fee. My LoC went back up to $30k as I paid $30k off my mortgage with a balcon check. (earned no points)Paid it off before the 12 months and my LoC was still at $30k. Bought a lot of tools and supplies for the business with it and paid it off within the month with our first set of receivables. Started running everything through our business accounts and credit cards. I now only use that card when there is a 0% balance transfer APR offer. Haven't had one in a year. I'm so surprised they haven't sent an offer like that in Q4.



Credit is the reason things cost so much here. Ever wonder why a can of cola is $1.25 at a gas station? Transaction fees and discount fees. My dads resort pays over $30,000 a year in transaction fees and discount fees from accepting credit cards. He offers a cash discount that many take but the CC companies have lobbied hard and made it illegal to require a minimum purchase for credit cards thus someone can buy a $1 pack of gum on a CC that would normally cost 75 cents cash. It pisses me off to no end when someone hands a clerk a CC to pay for a dollar item. It's so much quicker to pull a damn dollar out of your pocket and hand it to the clerk!! Doesn't ANYONE carry green anymore? As far as airline miles, your paying for that in a round about way as anyone accepting CC's has had to increase prices to cover the transaction fees which are used for rewards so never think that airline miles, and other discounts/ cash back are free. You ARE paying for it. IMHO the credit card industry is EVIL!!


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Credit is the reason things cost so much here. Ever wonder why a can of cola is $1.25 at a gas station? Transaction fees and discount fees. My dads resort pays over $30,000 a year in transaction fees and discount fees from accepting credit cards. He offers a cash discount that many take but the CC companies have lobbied hard and made it illegal to require a minimum purchase for credit cards thus someone can buy a $1 pack of gum on a CC that would normally cost 75 cents cash. It pisses me off to no end when someone hands a clerk a CC to pay for a dollar item. It's so much quicker to pull a damn dollar out of your pocket and hand it to the clerk!! Doesn't ANYONE carry green anymore? As far as airline miles, your paying for that in a round about way as anyone accepting CC's has had to increase prices to cover the transaction fees which are used for rewards so never think that airline miles, and other discounts/ cash back are free. You ARE paying for it. IMHO the credit card industry is EVIL!!


Credit cards work for me. I like to track every single penny I spend. It's a tool I use to simplify my book keeping records and the reward points I earn works for me. 

The only time I carry cash is if I spot a great deal online for 2nd hand equipment. I take credit card payments from my customers too. They prefer it. When info cash jobs, that money I set aside for emergencies or a rainy day. 

For me, the convenience makes up for the costs I spend. Knowing what I project to earn in fee's just helps me raise my prices when needed. I have customers to who ask me of they can get a lower price of they pay me in cash. I say as long as that cash is in my hand in 3 minutes and I can verify its real.


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## mtmtnman

thanohano44 said:


> Credit cards work for me. I like to track every single penny I spend. It's a tool I use to simplify my book keeping records and the reward points I earn works for me.
> 
> The only time I carry cash is if I spot a great deal online for 2nd hand equipment. I take credit card payments from my customers too. They prefer it. When info cash jobs, that money I set aside for emergencies or a rainy day.
> 
> For me, the convenience makes up for the costs I spend. Knowing what I project to earn in fee's just helps me raise my prices when needed. I have customers to who ask me of they can get a lower price of they pay me in cash. I say as long as that cash is in my hand in 3 minutes and I can verify its real.




I'm lucky to live in an area where checks are readily accepted. When i fuel my truck i don't have to slide the card 2X i just write a check for $150 and i have record of it. Still a few places that give you 3 cents off a gallon for cash/check. Don't tell me your the guy in front of me at the gas station swiping your card for a cup of coffee!!!!! One nice thing about a checkbook is you can write the address for the job in the memo area. Can't do that with a CC unless you screw around at the contractor desk and have them put a P/O on a long receipt but when you look at your statement it still says, Home Depot or Lowes with no further info. Writing a check my accountant only has to go through the check record and put it in Quickbooks instead of having to match up receipts to debit card transactions and entering them. I really haver no time to enter things on a nightly basis so this Saves my accountant time and me money. I saved over $75 on my last landscape trailer writing them a check VS using the card. Small business will do anything they can to save $$$. All my brokers and local customers write me a check. I can count on one hand over the last 5 years anyone that asked to use a card. Not worth the monthly fee to accept them for me and i keep my prices down. Knock on wood i have NEVER had a check bounce out of hundreds i have accepted but then again in Montana, you write a bad check and don't cover it in short order, you go to jail...........

*Montana Criminal. Check amount under $500.00=Up to $500 fine or six months in jail, or both. Check amount over $500.00=Up to $50,000 fine or 10 years in penitentiary or  both. (MCA 45-6-316.)*

*Montana civil. Service charge plus the greater of $100.00, or three times the amount of the check, but not to exceed the value of the check by more than $500.00. (MCA 27-1-717.) *


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## BPWY

I get VERY few requests to pay by CC even for lawn care.
They all give me checks and I've had very very few bounced checks from home owners.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> I get VERY few requests to pay by CC even for lawn care.
> They all give me checks and I've had very very few bounced checks from home owners.



Neither you nor i are in the big city. Hell the A&W here still takes checks! Don't have self checkout here at any store i know of either cept for Home Cheapo. Even the brand new WM Stupid Center don't have them.


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## Guest

:laughing:We know why the WM Super Center don't have self-checkout lines in MT....Really we know :laughing:


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## Guest

I never carry cash. Most of my customers finance their projects. I've done credit card transactions as high as 21k this year.

I think any company who doesn't offer these different payment options puts themselves at a disadvantage.

To the previous poster who said his relative spent 30k in fees is incorrect. His customers spent 30k in fees.


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## mtmtnman

BamBamm5144 said:


> I never carry cash. Most of my customers finance their projects. I've done credit card transactions as high as 21k this year.
> 
> I think any company who doesn't offer these different payment options puts themselves at a disadvantage.
> 
> To the previous poster who said his relative spent 30k in fees is incorrect. His customers spent 30k in fees.


Most people think nothing of how much extra it costs them to use plastic. It is added into the price. I do know that dads monthly snowbirds by a margin of 96% pay their monthly rent by check in order to get the cash discount but then again we are talking about a different generation many whome lived through the great depression. The overnight campers and store sales is where incurs all the fees. 

I honestly think if society depended less on credit cards the economy would be a while lor better right now.


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> Most people think nothing of how much extra it costs them to use plastic. It is added into the price. I do know that dads monthly snowbirds by a margin of 96% pay their monthly rent by check in order to get the cash discount but then again we are talking about a different generation many whome lived through the great depression. The overnight campers and store sales is where incurs all the fees.
> 
> I honestly think if society depended less on credit cards the economy would be a while lor better right now.


I agree with that but it isn't so much credit cards but financial responsibility.

I put anywhere from 25-40k a month on CCs' and pay it off each month. I love the free stuff I get for spending money!


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> Most people think nothing of how much extra it costs them to use plastic. It is added into the price. I do know that dads monthly snowbirds by a margin of 96% pay their monthly rent by check in order to get the cash discount but then again we are talking about a different generation many whome lived through the great depression. The overnight campers and store sales is where incurs all the fees.
> 
> I honestly think if society depended less on credit cards the economy would be a while lor better right now.


Not me, I hope everyone keeps maxing out their cc and way overextending themselves with that mortgage payment. Keeps me busy.


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## HollandPPC

BigDaddyPin said:


> Not me, I hope everyone keeps maxing out their cc and way overextending themselves with that mortgage payment. Keeps me busy.


I don't think you will have to worry about that. Sheeple will always overextend themselves.


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## Guest

With % rates as low as they are now days.......I could see it being beneficial to having debt. When you can borrow it at 3% and invest it and make 10% or more in dividends. 

Or 0%......why not use their cash instead of yours? Your money can work 24/7.....you can't!

The ones that kill me are when people refinance a home and then use the cash to pay off cars, equipment, cc, etc......then they say they are debt free and paid cash for vehicles.......when in reality, they just financed their cc's, cars, equipment, etc for 15 to 30 years


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Most people think nothing of how much extra it costs them to use plastic. It is added into the price. I do know that dads monthly snowbirds by a margin of 96% pay their monthly rent by check in order to get the cash discount but then again we are talking about a different generation many whome lived through the great depression. The overnight campers and store sales is where incurs all the fees.
> 
> I honestly think if society depended less on credit cards the economy would be a while lor better right now.


And this is why we have work. Lol. In this business anyways. I would have been shot without my credit cards on a few large jobs that I do for homeowners. 

When the new home construction was booming here in AZ, I wouldn't do any job that was less than $25k. Never had a problem. The credit cards ensured the materials we purchased and delivered on time hence ensuring the work was completed as agreed. When we take CC payments, the money is in my account within 24 hours. With checks, 2-3 days. Not all banks follow check 21. Credit is by far the bet option for me.


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## mtmtnman

RandyB1986 said:


> With % rates as low as they are now days.......I could see it being beneficial to having debt. When you can borrow it at 3% and invest it and make 10% or more in dividends.
> 
> Or 0%......why not use their cash instead of yours? Your money can work 24/7.....you can't!
> 
> The ones that kill me are when people refinance a home and then use the cash to pay off cars, equipment, cc, etc......then they say they are debt free and paid cash for vehicles.......when in reality, they just financed their cc's, cars, equipment, etc for 15 to 30 years



0%, It's a stupid idea, First off, if you buy the item with cash, You'll get a deal that is better than the $80 that you'll save. Plus, if you play with snakes, you'll get bitten. If they record your payment wrong and it's late, they'll backcharge you through the entire term of the deal at about 24 to 38% interest. You'll spend the next year and a half cleaning up this mess. I personally don't have the desire or energy to play the "same as cash" game. When I pay cash, I don't have to think about it again. It's done. I don't have to wonder if my monthly payment was recorded properly by some bozo in the finance office. Some folks enjoy the challenges of the finance game or just feel like they are being smarter than everyone else and taking advantage of using someone else's money. I need to remind you that they wouldn't make those sweet offers if they weren't pretty sure that they were going to get something out of it. Call me naive if you will, but also call me debt free. I sleep VERY well every night knowing i owe NOBODY a dime!! :clap::clap:


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## mtmtnman

Darn it! Finally found it!! This explains credit cards to the core.

_*Myth:* Aren't there positive uses of a credit card? Like rebates and airline miles?
*Truth:* Responsible use of a credit card does not exist. Credit card debt is a major problem in America.

There is no positive side to credit card use. *You will spend more if you use credit cards.* Even by paying the bills on time, you are not beating the system! But most families don't pay on time. The average family today carries $8,000 in credit card debt according to the American Bankers' Association.

*Now let's talk about the rebates. If you were using a credit card at 5%, you would have had to have spent $80,000 to get $4,000 rebates on new cars that lost $6,000 of value when you drove them off the lot. That is not a good deal!*
*Cash vs. Credit Cards*

*When you pay cash, you can "feel" the money leaving you. This is not true with credit cards. Flipping a credit card up on a counter registers nothing emotionally. A study of credit card use at McDonald’s found that people spent 47% more when using credit instead of cash. This is money you could have saved!*

If you "have to" use plastic, I suggest a debit card. I use them for travel and the occasional convenience of ordering something over the Internet or phone. Other than that, I use cash.
*
Personal finance is 80% behavior. You need to cut out habits that make you spend more.* You do not build wealth with credit cards. Use common sense. *When you play with a multi-billion dollar industry and you think you're going to win at their game, you are naive. You cannot beat the credit card companies.*_

Source...............


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Darn it! Finally found it!! This explains credit cards to the core.
> 
> Myth: Aren't there positive uses of a credit card? Like rebates and airline miles?
> Truth: Responsible use of a credit card does not exist. Credit card debt is a major problem in America.
> 
> There is no positive side to credit card use. You will spend more if you use credit cards. Even by paying the bills on time, you are not beating the system! But most families don't pay on time. The average family today carries $8,000 in credit card debt according to the American Bankers' Association.
> 
> Now let's talk about the rebates. If you were using a credit card at 5%, you would have had to have spent $80,000 to get $4,000 rebates on new cars that lost $6,000 of value when you drove them off the lot. That is not a good deal!
> Cash vs. Credit Cards
> 
> When you pay cash, you can "feel" the money leaving you. This is not true with credit cards. Flipping a credit card up on a counter registers nothing emotionally. A study of credit card use at McDonald’s found that people spent 47% more when using credit instead of cash. This is money you could have saved!
> 
> If you "have to" use plastic, I suggest a debit card. I use them for travel and the occasional convenience of ordering something over the Internet or phone. Other than that, I use cash.
> 
> Personal finance is 80% behavior. You need to cut out habits that make you spend more. You do not build wealth with credit cards. Use common sense. When you play with a multi-billion dollar industry and you think you're going to win at their game, you are naive. You cannot beat the credit card companies.
> 
> Source...............


Liberal propaganda. Lol. 

To each his own. We play with snakes daily doing pNp work daily. If you don't understand the pnp game you will get hurt. Same with the credit card game. 

10 years working for the largest bank in the world in underwriting, collections and loss mitigation, you tend to learn things. 

Buying what you need with credit cards and paying it off before you're assessed interest is the same as paying with cash, except I get free tickets to Hawaii. Which I don't get paying with cash. 

It's like guns. If you're trained to operate a firearm properly, you realize you control what it does. Same with credit use. 

Balance transfers, same as cash checks, late fees, over the limit fee's and different revolving lines of credit do not scare me. I know how a credit card works. 

If I have a 0% apr on balance transfers and a 8.9% on purchases and 24.9% on cash advances what do I do?

Use this card for only balance transfers. Do not use it for purchases. Why? Because when payments are applied, it goes to the balance transfer total balance first and the purchase balance will continue to accrue interest. Etc. 

Credit cards buy me 72 hrs to 25 days worth of time or money. I haven't paid interest on a card in 6 years. 

The feed associated with using cards are a calculated risk. Just like everyday life. Just like pp and reo work. 

We operate in different markets with different levels of competition. Here where it is so cut throat and nationals have over 1000 prospective vendors waiting in the wings. Same for local homeowner work. What do I do to separate myself from the rest? We over deliver what we promise. We finish the job when we say we will. We do the jobs others can't due to lack of resources. 

I agree with a lot of what Dave Ramsey says. I agree a lot with Robert Kiyosaki. I agree a lot with Donald Trump. I agree with a lot of what you say as well.


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## BPWY

RandyB1986 said:


> With % rates as low as they are now days.......I could see it being beneficial to having debt. When you can borrow it at 3% and invest it and make 10% or more in dividends.
> 
> Or 0%......why not use their cash instead of yours? Your money can work 24/7.....you can't!







When you factor in the RISK of having debt it is NEVER beneficial!


Sure it may be mathematically smart to use your CC as a line of credit. Or get that new work pickup with 0% interest.


But what if you have a heart attack? A broken leg or all too common the economy goes south and you loose your work before you get all this once mathematically smart debt paid off.
Then where are you gonna be? Up **** creek without a paddle is where.


Debt is dumb when the RISK factor is factored in.


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## Guest

I guess it all depends on how responsible you are with money.

Let's say my materials for a job cost 5k. I put that on credit at my supplier. Then I get paid for the job. I then pay that 5k off with my CC. Then I wait until it goes through and then pay it off out of my bank account.

I've spent around 180k this year on materials and didn't start doing the CC thing until two months ago like an idiot.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> When you factor in the RISK of having debt it is NEVER beneficial!
> 
> 
> Sure it may be mathematically smart to use your CC as a line of credit. Or get that new work pickup with 0% interest.
> 
> 
> But what if you have a heart attack? A broken leg or all too common the economy goes south and you loose your work before you get all this once mathematically smart debt paid off.
> Then where are you gonna be? Up **** creek without a paddle is where.
> 
> 
> Debt is dumb when the RISK factor is factored in.



EXACTLY!!!!!! **** happens. I go to bed every night knowing i owe nobody a dime. I know a good friend who was playing this game for years and it worked great! Fast forward to 2009, His business slowed down and he only had 3 months emergency fund in place as he had spent the rest due to health issues with his child. To top it off one of his clients screwed him on a 40K parts order. He was revolving 12-15K a month through Visa And Mastercard and NEVER carried over a balance. His debt is over 25K now with his interest rates at 28% due to being late on payments and still no decent work. *Folks you HAVE to think about the risk!!* Like BPWY says, WHAT IF your injured? Where is your $$$ going to come from? If you owe nobody, nobody can take anything away form you! I guess i am overly conservative but i SURE AS HELL am not liberal. The Credit game may work fine for many, many years but eventually, if you play with enough snakes YOU WILL GET BITTEN!


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## thanohano44

BamBamm5144 said:


> I guess it all depends on how responsible you are with money.
> 
> Let's say my materials for a job cost 5k. I put that on credit at my supplier. Then I get paid for the job. I then pay that 5k off with my CC. Then I wait until it goes through and then pay it off out of my bank account.
> 
> I've spent around 180k this year on materials and didn't start doing the CC thing until two months ago like an idiot.


This is exactly what I do. I don't use the card if I don't have the money to pay it. 

There is risk in everything we do. If I get hurt, paralyzed or die, I have a policy that freezes the balance on my card for up to 2 years. I pay .32 per $100 balance on the card. If I don't carry a balance, I have no fee. My life insurance policy pays off all debt in the case of death or dismemberment. 

The risk is real for me but it is also real low. I use the card for business related expenses. Materials, office supplies, fuel, etc. these are things I always have the cash for within 3 days of making a purchase. I'll put a vehicle purchase on my credit card if one of my other credit cards has an equal credit limit with a 0% interest balcon offer without a transfer fee. That way I get the points for each dollar I spend and I pay no interest. I don't pay a fee for running the credit card directly. Fees go up each year regardless if I use credit or not. 

That term about people not having emotional ties to what they apply on their card doesn't apply to me. I don't feel, I think. (I'm not a woman....Jk ladies on the forum). That is what I think that article was posted to. 

I'm a frugal SOB. I only buy things if there is a purpose and a NEED. For example, I want to buy that brand new super duty f350. Do I have the money for it? Nope. Do I have the credit? YES. Do I want to finance it? Nope. So I do not buy. I buy things to make me money. Not lose money.


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## mtmtnman

thanohano44 said:


> This is exactly what I do. I don't use the card if I don't have the money to pay it.
> 
> There is risk in everything we do. If I get hurt, paralyzed or die, I have a policy that freezes the balance on my card for up to 2 years. I pay .32 per $100 balance on the card. If I don't carry a balance, I have no fee. My life insurance policy pays off all debt in the case of death or dismemberment.
> 
> The risk is real for me but it is also real low. I use the card for business related expenses. Materials, office supplies, fuel, etc. these are things I always have the cash for within 3 days of making a purchase. I'll put a vehicle purchase on my credit card if one of my other credit cards has an equal credit limit with a 0% interest balcon offer without a transfer fee. That way I get the points for each dollar I spend and I pay no interest. I don't pay a fee for running the credit card directly. Fees go up each year regardless if I use credit or not.
> 
> That term about people not having emotional ties to what they apply on their card doesn't apply to me. I don't feel, I think. (I'm not a woman....Jk ladies on the forum). That is what I think that article was posted to.
> 
> I'm a frugal SOB. I only buy things if there is a purpose and a NEED. For example, I want to buy that brand new super duty f350. Do I have the money for it? Nope. Do I have the credit? YES. Do I want to finance it? Nope. So I do not buy. I buy things to make me money. Not lose money.




While your plan works, your one of a slim minority or the CC companies would NOT be in business. They are FOR profit and are still making $$$$ off of the people who you buy things from. Which brings me back to my dads business. Small business is being hurt by the use of credit in more ways than one. I know extremely small businesses paying 50 cents per transaction and .0275% The best rate Dad could negotiate is .20 cents per transaction and .0185% With American Excess it was nearly double that so he don't accept American Excess. That means for every $100 he takes in, he pays the credit card company $2.05 You say pass it along which is fine but huge corporations such as Wallmart, Lowes, Home Depot Ect. have 10 cents per transaction fees and .005% so instantly they can be more competitive than a small business. Thus the reason small businesses prefer cash or check. You really would be surprised what you can negotiate with Franklins, Grants and Jacksons.............


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## mtmtnman

Oh, and your airline miles? Did you know that the the merchant pays a higher fee when you use a miles/rewards/cashback card?
Bank acts like they are doing you a favor. All they do is shaft the merchant.


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> While your plan works, your one of a slim minority or the CC companies would NOT be in business. They are FOR profit and are still making $$$$ off of the people who you buy things from. Which brings me back to my dads business. Small business is being hurt by the use of credit in more ways than one. I know extremely small businesses paying 50 cents per transaction and .0275% The best rate Dad could negotiate is .20 cents per transaction and .0185% With American Excess it was nearly double that so he don't accept American Excess. That means for every $100 he takes in, he pays the credit card company $2.05 You say pass it along which is fine but huge corporations such as Wallmart, Lowes, Home Depot Ect. have 10 cents per transaction fees and .005% so instantly they can be more competitive than a small business. Thus the reason small businesses prefer cash or check. You really would be surprised what you can negotiate with Franklins, Grants and Jacksons.............


Which is why I charge less for cash jobs and I have the home owner purchase and pick up the supplies if they want a cash job. 

If i take a Cc, my prices are higher to offset the convenience fee. I can also do EFT's if needed. 

For me, the fees are worth the convenience, and expedited deposit of my funds. For example, if I'm working a flip project, I don't have the time to wait for a check to clear to buy supplies. With the credit card I get it right then and the job is completed before the hard cash loan is due in full or before the investors first monthly installment is due. Ideally they like to sell or refi before 45-65 day period before the payment is due. I've never had an investor or home owner bat an eye. Out here, time is of the essence. Fast paced and now now now instant gratification vs delayed gratification. The name of the game is now now now. Buy quick and sell fast. 3-5 days for a check to clear is 3-5 days more than I would like to spend. Of spending an extra $30k to provide the customers with a convenience to keep them coming, that's a small price to pay IMHO. What do you gain by Paying that $30k? $800k in revenue? If you don't provide that service and the customer has to go elsewhere to pull out cash to buy a soda, they might just buy that soda at the chevron near the bank ATM they withdraw the cash. Then how much do you lose in potential sales. 

In this time in history everyone is consumed with instant gratification and convenience. Devices are created to give us more time. Cell phones, Internet, faster cars, free ways, computers with faster processing multi tasking skills, etc. the 3 to 5 day delay in receiving funds from a customer to allow them to spend elsewhere or put a stop payment (I've had happen before) perhaps people out in MT are more honest than the people are out here in Phoenix so that's not something you've had to deal with.


. I think I told you about that lady who didn't pay me in full for a landscape install. She paid the 50% downpayment with a check. It cleared so I bought the supplies and did the job. She wrote me a check for the rest upon completion. It bounced because she put a stop payment on it because she didn't have all the money. I kept getting excuses for 4 months. I placed a lien on the property. She said my irrigation work was faulty and caused the lawn and trees not to receive enough water. (bs-she changed the watering times to save money). So I went out there and inspected the work. No leaks, cracks or anything. She arrived and said she wasn't paying till I fixed it. Turned it on and showed her no problems. Coverage was great. No leaks. Drainage was on point. She then said all she had was half of what she owes me in cash. I said ok, when can you pay the rest? I see the for sale sign out front. She paid me half and asked me to rescind the lien. I said not till I'm paid in full. She agreed to pay me in 2 weeks. 2 weeks came and went. She wouldn't return my calls. She called me to say that the house is set to close but needs the liens released or she wouldn't pay. So I made a drive out to the property and had some left over trioxx from another job. Hooked my air compressor up to the lines and blew trioxx gel through the lines. Watered the lawn. In 2 days in AZ 115 degree heat and everything was crispy brown. Sale fell through. She had to pay my money and pay me again to install new sod, plants and trees. This time all on credit.


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## BPWY

lol


More than one way to collect monies owed.


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Oh, and your airline miles? Did you know that the the merchant pays a higher fee when you use a miles/rewards/cashback card?
> Bank acts like they are doing you a favor. All they do is shaft the merchant.


Amigo, we are all in it for the profit. I don't do any work just to make me feel good. I don't know of 1 business in business to not make a profit. The merchant signed a contract agreeing to the terms of the contract and provided us with the mileage. It helps them drive more business through the doors. 

I think we all realize no bank will do any of us a favor if they're not going to profit off of offering a service. Would you change a lock out on a foreclosure without turning a profit?

We can't acquire wealth by saving ourselves there. I didn't start a business to just get by in life. I started business' to live a better life than the everyday employee. I started these business' so that I could be debt free and self sufficient and not depend on the government. We have to earn our way to our goals. When you look at what you receive each month in pay, after you pay all expenses you are left with a smaller percentage than you brought in. That won't get me to where I want to be as fast as opening my business to more people by ways of credit cards. Does this make sense? 

I truly appreciate your advice and point of view. I was raised that way. My family in the islands pay for everything in cash. I think I'd be doing myself a huge disservice by not using my talents and knowledge to accomplish all my goals. I still treat my customers fair and advise them against any bad buys or decisions when I can.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> lol
> 
> More than one way to collect monies owed.


Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Lol.


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## BPWY

Troy if you have enough self discipline to make it work the way you tell about it..... good for you.

Its pretty obvious that very few of us, myself included are not able to self discipline enough to make it work perfectly.
If that wasn't the case there wouldn't be such a high demand for PnP contractors.

I would give the proverbial left nut to have back the amount of money I spent in frivolous card charges as well as massive amounts of interest I paid during my 20s.
I'd probably been able to nearly cash money my house.
I am a much smarter man now thanks to all that emotional pain paid during the time that the house of cards collapsed. Today I grow my business cash only.
Yeah its slower in building up to a nice stable of shiny equipment but with careful purchases of used stuff I am growing. In Jan of 2011 I bought a $3000 ZTR rider and put $1200 in to it before the season started. I can say that its probably paid for itself.
2012 looks to be so much better income wise than 2011. I've got some sweet signed contracts.
I plan to make one major equipment purchase in the spring that will require a loan. But I project being able to pay it off by the end of the lawn season.
I aint looking forward to the loan but I don't have many options.


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## mtmtnman

On to another subject. Under $5 purchases with CC's. I see more and more places not accepting them or charging a .50 cent fee. While i know most merchant CC contracts stipulate you cannot do this i stand behind the merchants. Credit cards are in fact *not* legal tender, as cash is (i would argue that *using* credit rather than legal tender is a privilege, not a god-given right).

Small business people may choose to accept credit cards as a convenience to their customers, but they should still be able to make a profit on their products, and people need to realize that the street hot dog vendor will not make a profit on a sale paid for by cc, whereas the jeweler's storefront s/he stands in front of will certainly profit from a diamond ring sale by cc. the high end restaurant next door, which has cc fees built into their pricing (making everything more expensive for everyone, will also profit from cc sales. *Buying a $2 cup of coffee with a cc is not a reasonable transaction, it's abuse of the service the proprietor offers*-- the coffee proprietor should be able to charge $.50 to the customer to cover the cc fee for the small transaction, as well as discourage their use for small transactions--small cc transactions are also very inefficient in terms of a small shop's efficiency/worker time. the ice cream shop lady should be able to choose to offer the little league coach, buying treats for the team, the convenience of using a credit card, as she will make profit on $25 worth of ice cream, but she should also be able to ask me, in line behind them, to pay with cash or accept a service charge for the convenience of paying for my $2 cone with credit. These small transactions pissed me off to no end when i ran Dad's resort and i let it be known, hopefully waking some people up but most likely not seeing who Americans voted into the Whitehouse........


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## Gypsos

Hi All,

We got rid of all our credit cards years ago and are now pay as you go or do without. We currently own everything but our house. 

I have been blessed to have been in the right place at the right time a few times over the last couple of years. The first was when I lost my job and turned to PP as a way to feed the family. I had no commercial lawn equipment, but I did have determination and the phone numbers of two companies looking for vendors. If I had to push a 22" cut mower to feed the family, so be it. 

About this itme, my Dad heard one of my cousins had pawned all his commercial equipment for $450. He worked a deal to buy it all for $500 and gave it to me. So I had a trailer, a 36" walk behind Snapper, a Stihl trimmer and edger and a green machine blower that was older than dirt. After some TLC it was all running like a top.

Then I worked a deal with the owner of a very large landscaping company to build out part of his his new shop. He would provide all the materials and I provided the labor. When it was all said and done I had a Kubota ZG23 54" cut ZTR with 1228 hours on it and a blown motor. It is a matter of record now that the Kohler 23 hp engine will mow for 200 feet before the engine blows up if you do not add new oil when you change it. 

3 months, $500 and alot of horse trading later I got the Kubota running, traded up to a larger trailer and became the vendor of choice to tackle to jobs nobody else wanted. 

I had to quit PP for a few months because a friend offered me way too much money to work for him for a while. So now that job is over and I called my old customers and they are thrilled to have me back. It seems the PP guys who took over my areas have never hit a single deadline. 

I should have all my insurance certifications updated and in the proper hands next week and will be back at it full force again.


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## david

thanks for credit card 101,as i said before cc's are no good but some people have no choice if they keep going till things get better,bravo for all the ones lucky enough not to need them.


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## BPWY

d+jhomeservices said:


> thanks for credit card 101,as i said before cc's are no good but some people have no choice if they keep going till things get better,bravo for all the ones lucky enough not to need them.









Its a choice.


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## david

bp it is a choice your right,in my case i was in partnership with someone when i 1st started,had no clue what to expect quit my job to do pp,after a year he seen cost and everything he decided to split for another job leaving me owing for everything,i am happy to say i paid off most the debt but was a lot i didnt know at time to keep going comfortably.i have paid 1 card off and tore it up,currently workin on other but work has went dead lately,but out there everyday looking and writing emails,making phone calls to attain work.


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## BPWY

Good going there on climbing out of the hole.



Good luck on finding work.


These slow times is why I preach to any one that will listen that they must diversify.
DO NOT have all your eggs in one basket. ESPECIALLY in this P&P industry.


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> EXACTLY!!!!!! **** happens. I go to bed every night knowing i owe nobody a dime.


That is a nice thought......but everybody owes somebody and you always will. Think about your phone bill, your power, property taxes.....those are all debts that you will forever incur. You may think you don't owe anyone....but fact is, almost everyone owes someone. When I paid my home off the first time I thought, finally....but it still costs me $300 a month in taxes, $75 in insurance, 100 in electric, gas of a winter, water, sewer....I am sure you get the point. 

We all die and take the same nothing with us in the end. It don't matter how you get their.....be happy and enjoy life.

Cash is cool......but cash WON'T make you money now days unless you put it to work for you. Savings is useless...CD's are paying nothing......

Just remember....your money can work 24/7......you can't.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> Good going there on climbing out of the hole.
> 
> Good luck on finding work.
> 
> These slow times is why I preach to any one that will listen that they must diversify.
> DO NOT have all your eggs in one basket. ESPECIALLY in this P&P industry.


Exactly.


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