# The Regional I'm working for say's they can't pay



## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

Hey guys I need some of your sage advice on how to proceed here. I have worked for A company for a few months now and was scheduled (according to their set pay schedule) to recieve payment for some work we completed in Nov. This morning I received this email in response to an inquiry about why I haven't been paid. 

I researched your orders and see that you have two orders that were invoiced during this period of time that were not paid to you:Both of these have not been paid by the client yet and that is why you have not been paid on these. Our system is set up in such a way that we cannot payout on work orders until we have been paid. Unfortunately these things happen with our clients from time to time, which in turn puts our vendors in a "bad" spot - which we understand and try to rectify ASAP. We have put in a call and email to the client to find out what the delay has been with these two orders and once we hear back from them we will advise you on payment.

As soon as we hear back from them we will issue you a payment - but we just need to ensure that this job passed their Quality Control (which I am sure it did).

We understand how frustrating this can be and I assure you we are doing all in our power to correct this for you as soon as possible. As soon as they confirm that they received payment on these jobs, we will issue a payment to you. 

Please help


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Your contract is not with their client...It is with them...

Send a letter of demand and CC the client on it...
There are a few posts on this subject in the NPPG Daily Update thread.

But you will need to start the paper trail ASAP...


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

The old "You'll get paid when I get paid" story. My response to the customer has always been that it is a "You" problem, and I am not a finance company.Check your contract and see if there is any language regarding defaults by the primary client. As stated, get your notices/letters of intent written up and blow up everyones email box. They are unable to track accounts to confirm they are paid unless someone calls in? they are unable to pay vendors outside of the work order? They have no idea if the property has been Qcd? Oy...


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

That is what gets me annoyed with some of these companies.
First I hope that you get your money but remember you have to read the contract, never accept a contract that states "paid when paid".
I would contact them and tell them that according to your policies, if payment is not received you have to lien the property. Don't worry about them telling you they will not give anymore work, in all honesty if you have to fight for your money it is not worth working for them.
Next, tell them that in addition to the lien, you will be contacting the client directly.


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## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

*Thank you all for responding.*

This was the "resolution" email.

The client has stated that this order is being processed on the 1/15 check next tuesday. I have asked accounting to cut you a check once we receive payment from client. This will most likely be the end of next week. I will keep you informed of the process.

I like the idea of starting a paper trail. Should I really CC the actual client? these people owe me >$10,000 (<-- which was an ignorant newbie mistake I have had someone on this forum tell me to treat these guys like I'm giving them a line of credit. Don't over extend until you know they will pay. Too bad I was already done by the time I heard this.)I don't really want to piss them off unless it comes to that. Ya know that ole adage " you get more fly's with honey than vinegar". I have a Lawyer on retainer, but I'm concerned if I send him after my money they'll just stonewall me in court for as long as they can. I'd much rather just get paid. Right now! I'm not sure if its the case or not, but it seems my Field Op mgr Is trying to work with the client to get me paid. I read my contract and nowhere in it does it say "pay when paid" They have a set Schedule laid out in a individual file naming all the pay cycles and check cut dates. I had to sign this and send it back to them. Do you guy's really think telling them "whether or not you got paid has nothing to do with me" actually persuade them to pay me? Surely there is a better (more professional) way of wording that. "My contract states that I should get paid for X on X date and that is legally binding you have 7 days to resolve this issue yada yada whatever it needs to say..." What leverage do I have and what is the law. Do I mention my lawyer yet? What actual steps does it take to resolve this issue (I'm about to go read the sticky on the PPG as soon as I post this.)just so were clear. I am going to send out a letter of intent to state I need to collect on an overdue invoice CC the field manager accounting and the GM and also my lawyer (CLIENT?). Should I wait and see if the issue will resolve itself. I'm not concerned about not getting more work because like you said. Its not worth having to fight for my money. However if there is an easier more tactful way to just convince them to pay me I'd rather just get paid than make them pay. Ya know. P.S. I'm done with this company. Is there any hope for finding a company that runs a proper BUSINESS when it come to PP. Pays Fair, Reasonably able to work with us(vendors), No hassle in pay. I've heard go strait to the mortgage broker who is handling the foreclosure. How do I find these people?


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## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

*Update*

Well I couldn't find the description of how to start the process for collections in the sticky. HOWEVER and I'm sure Cleanup will be glad to hear : ). I got a hit on google to some wonderful gentleman in the Prop. Pres industry who posted a youtube video to his FB page. Alladay Prop Pres and organic herbs and chile's :thumbsup: on the 29th about what needs to be in the letter of demand. Thanks buddy. : ) I actually have a business admin. assoc. degree. Even though I know they are clearly in breach of contract. I guess what I wanted to know is experientialy what is the best way to handle and get the situation resolved. I guess the only concern I still have is am I jumping the gun by not waiting to see if the issue works itself out? Threatening lien and sending a letter of demand to the company 1 day after my check was supposed to be cut seems brash. Maybe I'm just too young and naive. I'm waiting to hear back from my lawyer, he has been in court all day. He's a personal friend of mine so he'll call me sometime this weekend if he doesn't today. Seriously though Thank all of y'all who responded:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy: its people like you guys that make this forum what it ought to be : )


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

I would give them until the 15th and inquire as to the status again. Specifically I would ask when the check was going to be mailed to me. I would play nice for a time, perhaps 3 weeks, since getting paid a few weeks late is alot better than fighting for it. 

Once I got my money would I stop working for them until we got we few things straight about when I got paid in relation to when they got paid.


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## REO2Rentals (Sep 18, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> This was the "resolution" email.
> 
> The client has stated that this order is being processed on the 1/15 check next tuesday. I have asked accounting to cut you a check once we receive payment from client. This will most likely be the end of next week. I will keep you informed of the process.
> 
> I like the idea of starting a paper trail. Should I really CC the actual client? these people owe me >$10,000 (<-- which was an ignorant newbie mistake I have had someone on this forum tell me to treat these guys like I'm giving them a line of credit. Don't over extend until you know they will pay. Too bad I was already done by the time I heard this.)I don't really want to piss them off unless it comes to that. Ya know that ole adage " you get more fly's with honey than vinegar". I have a Lawyer on retainer, but I'm concerned if I send him after my money they'll just stonewall me in court for as long as they can. I'd much rather just get paid. Right now! I'm not sure if its the case or not, but it seems my Field Op mgr Is trying to work with the client to get me paid. I read my contract and nowhere in it does it say "pay when paid" They have a set Schedule laid out in a individual file naming all the pay cycles and check cut dates. I had to sign this and send it back to them. Do you guy's really think telling them "whether or not you got paid has nothing to do with me" actually persuade them to pay me? Surely there is a better (more professional) way of wording that. "My contract states that I should get paid for X on X date and that is legally binding you have 7 days to resolve this issue yada yada whatever it needs to say..." What leverage do I have and what is the law. Do I mention my lawyer yet? What actual steps does it take to resolve this issue (I'm about to go read the sticky on the PPG as soon as I post this.)just so were clear. I am going to send out a letter of intent to state I need to collect on an overdue invoice CC the field manager accounting and the GM and also my lawyer (CLIENT?). Should I wait and see if the issue will resolve itself. I'm not concerned about not getting more work because like you said. Its not worth having to fight for my money. However if there is an easier more tactful way to just convince them to pay me I'd rather just get paid than make them pay. Ya know. P.S. I'm done with this company. Is there any hope for finding a company that runs a proper BUSINESS when it come to PP. Pays Fair, Reasonably able to work with us(vendors), No hassle in pay. I've heard go strait to the mortgage broker who is handling the foreclosure. How do I find these people?



Please name this SCUM BAG!

If people - regional scumbag don't have cash flow at least quarter millions to float..........please whomever you are get the [email protected] OUT - DON'T CLOGGED SEWER PIPE!


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Of course you should wait and see if "things work themselves out". By then your lien rights will have expired and the teeth will have fallen out of any leverage that you had. Name the company so others may learn from your experience and possibly save someone from a business nose dive.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

REO2Rentals said:


> Please name this SCUM BAG!
> 
> If people - regional scumbag don't have cash flow at least quarter millions to float..........please whomever you are get the [email protected] OUT - DON'T CLOGGED SEWER PIPE!


What's odd is when I was ASKED to cover multiple states, I was told I needed a $2mill LOC to qualify to float work to pay my subs before they would release that much work to us. I don't have a 2 mill or even 1 mill LOC to loan out money. We had a $100 LOC up until 2009 then when my former employer did their restructuring and selling off of assets my LOC was closed due to non use. We usually paid it off before payments were due. No big deal I thought. Then the regional program ran rampant. FTW


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

*re*

ok random rant here. In one thread I hear people saying that if a regional is taking more then 15% they are robbing you but in another thread I hear that it is their responsibility to pay you even if they do not get paid for the job you did. If I were a regional I sure as hell wouldn't take the risk of having to eat jobs for a measly 15%. If you expect me to take all the risk then its going to cost you. Now if your already splitting profits with this regional and they are sticking you with all of the chargebacks then that is lame.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> This was the "resolution" email.
> 
> The client has stated that this order is being processed on the 1/15 check next tuesday. I have asked accounting to cut you a check once we receive payment from client. This will most likely be the end of next week. I will keep you informed of the process.
> 
> I like the idea of starting a paper trail. Should I really CC the actual client? these people owe me >$10,000 (<-- which was an ignorant newbie mistake I have had someone on this forum tell me to treat these guys like I'm giving them a line of credit. Don't over extend until you know they will pay. Too bad I was already done by the time I heard this.)I don't really want to piss them off unless it comes to that. Ya know that ole adage " you get more fly's with honey than vinegar". I have a Lawyer on retainer, but I'm concerned if I send him after my money they'll just stonewall me in court for as long as they can. I'd much rather just get paid. Right now! I'm not sure if its the case or not, but it seems my Field Op mgr Is trying to work with the client to get me paid. I read my contract and nowhere in it does it say "pay when paid" They have a set Schedule laid out in a individual file naming all the pay cycles and check cut dates. I had to sign this and send it back to them. Do you guy's really think telling them "whether or not you got paid has nothing to do with me" actually persuade them to pay me? Surely there is a better (more professional) way of wording that. "My contract states that I should get paid for X on X date and that is legally binding you have 7 days to resolve this issue yada yada whatever it needs to say..." What leverage do I have and what is the law. Do I mention my lawyer yet? What actual steps does it take to resolve this issue (I'm about to go read the sticky on the PPG as soon as I post this.)just so were clear. I am going to send out a letter of intent to state I need to collect on an overdue invoice CC the field manager accounting and the GM and also my lawyer (CLIENT?). Should I wait and see if the issue will resolve itself. I'm not concerned about not getting more work because like you said. Its not worth having to fight for my money. However if there is an easier more tactful way to just convince them to pay me I'd rather just get paid than make them pay. Ya know. P.S. I'm done with this company. Is there any hope for finding a company that runs a proper BUSINESS when it come to PP. Pays Fair, Reasonably able to work with us(vendors), No hassle in pay. I've heard go strait to the mortgage broker who is handling the foreclosure. How do I find these people?


Me personally would craft an email stating somthing like "both my attorney and I have reviewed your contract. Nowhere does it state that I will be paid when 'you are paid'. As a matter of fact, your are in breach of your own contract stating payment terms of X by X date. I am requesting on your next run of checks, you resolve this issue and bring your company back inline with the terms set forth within your own contract."

As someone on here said, Don't get mad, Get paid. Keep a level head, stick to the facts and do not get angry, as much as you'd like to. Also, do not let this drag out. Watch your dates for when you will no longer be allowed to lien.

If you don't have a long enough track record to understand their ability to pay, DO NOT TRUST your Field Op Manager. These people are trained on "bait and switch" tactics. Remember, it is not your problem that their client hasn't paid. He/she should be working to get you paid period. You don't need to give a damn about what their client does or does not do. Trust Me...:whistling2: afterall, I was the one who made the line of credit comment:thumbup:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

nurumkin said:


> ok random rant here. In one thread I hear people saying that if a regional is taking more then 15% they are robbing you but in another thread I hear that it is their responsibility to pay you even if they do not get paid for the job you did. If I were a regional I sure as hell wouldn't take the risk of having to eat jobs for a measly 15%. If you expect me to take all the risk then its going to cost you. Now if your already splitting profits with this regional and they are sticking you with all of the chargebacks then that is lame.


Come on, do you really believe this? If I have a contract to perform services for your company and I do them per your standard and your timeline and your price sheet and your due date, I don't give a damn if your get paid or not. My contract is with you, not your client. It is your responsibility to evalute my work, pics whatever and determine if I completed it satisfactorily or not. I don't see the contract with your client nor do I know their requirements of your company. I only know what your company required of me. If you do not get paid, that is your problem for taking the risk of being a regional.

In my world of construction and remodeling, my electrician, HVAC, plumber and other subs expect to be paid per our contract. If I get stuck from a homeowner for nonpayment, you better believe my subs get paid. And yes, I work off a 15% - 20% margin on the work they complete. :thumbsup:

The mindset you mentioned above is part of the problem with this industry. People need to grow up and put their big boy pants on. "Paying when I get paid" is a lazy persons way of shedding responsibility.

Just my $0.02


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

*re*



BRADSConst said:


> Come on, do you really believe this? If I have a contract to perform services for your company and I do them per your standard and your timeline and your price sheet and your due date, I don't give a damn if your get paid or not. My contract is with you, not your client. It is your responsibility to evalute my work, pics whatever and determine if I completed it satisfactorily or not. I don't see the contract with your client nor do I know their requirements of your company. I only know what your company required of me. If you do not get paid, that is your problem for taking the risk of being a regional.
> 
> In my world of construction and remodeling, my electrician, HVAC, plumber and other subs expect to be paid per our contract. If I get stuck from a homeowner for nonpayment, you better believe my subs get paid. And yes, I work off a 15% - 20% margin on the work they complete. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Well if you listen to most of the people on the forum is sounds like they are getting stiffed on 15-20% of their jobs so as a regional it would be hard to stay in business long if you couldn't pass along some of that loss. on the flip side of it if I could eliminate charge backs and a lot of the paperwork headaches for 15-20% I probably would.


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

nurumkin said:


> Well if you listen to most of the people on the forum is sounds like they are getting stiffed on 15-20% of their jobs so as a regional it would be hard to stay in business long if you couldn't pass along some of that loss. on the flip side of it if I could eliminate charge backs and a lot of the paperwork headaches for 15-20% I probably would.


In no way are chargebacks eliminated with a regional being involved. You're telling me if a national goes to a regional, and charges them back $1500 because they failed to report mold on a property and it cost that much to remediate, they are not going to pass that along to the end contractor? 

I do agree it may reduce some paperwork, but chargebacks, no. 

But this is different, this is the regional claiming they haven't been paid yet. In reality, my guess is that SOMETIMES it's because they haven't gotten paid and SOMETIMES they have gotten paid but can't afford to pay you yet because they are so low on capital, they are waiting on the other subs jobs to pay so they can pay you. Sort of like a mini-ponzi scheme. They "hope" that eventually they will have enough $$ to pay everyone, but in reality they are not profiting enough and eventually go out of business when their ponzi runs out of $$.


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