# OK, I am going to give Safeguard a try!



## PPC

Here is the low down. I am not new to the business, I have been doing it for 4 years. When I heard Safeguard was buying BAC Field Services, where most of my current work is from, I decided to fill out a vendor application even though I have heard all the horror stories. Well I got the call and I am going to be given Safeguard P&P work in the zones I asked for. My question is primarily for current Safeguard vendors. Is P&P better than REO and what should I expect? Am I going to make good money with them? Do YOU make good money with them? How long does it take to upload work orders? Do they give multiple vendors work orders in the same zones? Am I making a bid mistake or is this a great opportunity? Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## JFMURFY

PPC said:


> Here is the low down. I am not new to the business, I have been doing it for 4 years. When I heard Safeguard was buying BAC Field Services, where most of my current work is from, I decided to fill out a vendor application even though I have heard all the horror stories. Well I got the call and I am going to be given Safeguard P&P work in the zones I asked for. My question is primarily for current Safeguard vendors. Is P&P better than REO and what should I expect? Am I going to make good money with them? Do YOU make good money with them? How long does it take to upload work orders? Do they give multiple vendors work orders in the same zones? Am I making a bid mistake or is this a great opportunity? Any info would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


P&P is generally "reoccuring" and "maintenance" for which from my dealings with them 2 years ago was pitence pay. More time spent inputting to their lengthy online PCR. REO generally bid work, if they don't have standardized pricing.
I let'em go two years ago as they were more trouble than it was worth administratively.


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## GTX63

Good money is a relative term and different for everyone. Some people need $100 a day to feed their families and are willing to work 18 hours to make it. Bad hourly but it makes ends meet.
We made good money with Safeguard when we took any and everything they sent, but spent obscene amounts of office time chasing missing and shorted money.
Grass cuts take maybe 10 minutes to upload.
Initial service orders a lot longer.
HPIRs were ridiculous.
They will put as many vendors in an area until they feel comfortable they can dictate a "take it or leave it" agenda.
Depending on your mindset and your business ability, you can do ok.


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## thanohano44

PPC said:


> Here is the low down. I am not new to the business, I have been doing it for 4 years. When I heard Safeguard was buying BAC Field Services, where most of my current work is from, I decided to fill out a vendor application even though I have heard all the horror stories. Well I got the call and I am going to be given Safeguard P&P work in the zones I asked for. My question is primarily for current Safeguard vendors. Is P&P better than REO and what should I expect? Am I going to make good money with them? Do YOU make good money with them? How long does it take to upload work orders? Do they give multiple vendors work orders in the same zones? Am I making a bid mistake or is this a great opportunity? Any info would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


I've found that you can make more in their P&P side than their REO side as long as you're paid. I really wouldn't wade in those waters if I were you unless you're an established GC.


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## PPC

OK, I am an established GC. I have been around the block many times with P&P. I figure as long as they pay, I should be OK. I have no problem waiting 60-90 days. That seems to be the norm now and I am used it. As for uploading I heard of a company in Sacramento that is doing Safeguard and AMS processing for $2 an order. I plan on calling them and getting them on board because I hate being on the computer every waking hour.

Any more advise? How do the big Safeguard vendors survive? Do you have staff that uploads work orders or do you outsource?


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## FearlessTeapot

We worked for them around 10 years ago. The website was horrible, the pay was low, and the expectations were very high. We stopped working for them back then and moved on.

Recently, we started working for them again, doing REO stuff. Again, the pay was too low, the expectations too high, and the website seems even worse than before. There were over 200 questions on one of their PCRs I filled out for an initial services maid order. Also, the layout is terrible. You have to upload all of your photos on the first page, then hit next and wait 1-3 minutes for the next to load. Answer the questions, then 'assign' pictures. Forget to upload an air freshener pic? Back to page 1 and the waits associated with switching between pages. 

Also, they ask questions that are not relevant. A recent example would be a PCR that required Fireplace information. The home didn't have one, but that wasn't an option on the form. We had to describe this nonexistant fireplace by clicking radio buttons indicating the condition of various parts of it, until we got to the end of that section where we typed in, "there is no fireplace here.' Really amateur website. 

They require a 100% immaculate home on an initial maid service order, and literally send an inspector to every house you do while in your probationary period. If the whole house does not pass their 'white glove test,' they send you back. Not a big deal, except that you will lose money doing this. The pay is not enough to justify the manpower you will need to get this done.

In addition, it's tough to get a question answered over there. When you call in and ask for someone, you get transferred. I have literally not once gotten the person I asked for when speaking to an operator first. The majority of the time, you don't even get someone in the same department. I actually got someone in billing once while trying to ask a question about a maid service. They can take a message and have someone call you back, but that takes hours.

Their preservation side may be better, I don't know. I could not justify working their REO side anymore, though. We quit them again after only a couple of months - we were just losing money and not getting any preservation/bids back to make up for it.


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## GTX63

What teapot discribes regarding the Vendor Web is spot on. Safeguard was the first company to cut our invoice because we did not wipe down the furnace, water heater, and basement window sills.


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## Splinterpicker

Best of luick. Say goodbye to your hair. They were the bottom of the botom feeders and from what the local reo vendor for them tells me they have gotten worse. Keep Spot on records and a BIG pair of BOXING GLOVES handy for when they start to spar with ya It will happen :thumbsup:


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## PPC

I said goodbye to my hair years ago, so that will not be a problem :thumbup:


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## Backwell

What companies do you guys use? What are your favorite companies? Locals? Other regionals?


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## BPWY

Backwell said:


> What companies do you guys use? What are your favorite companies? Locals? Other regionals?






For the most part my experience has been they all suck....... to some extent.
Its just how willing are you to put up with them.



For example .......... the siblings.......... first 10 months or so were "great" not much work but no problems. Then the price of fuel started to climb and they got all too eager to send out tons of $20 trip charges for this or that, and convey condition reports month after month after month after.............. you get the picture. 
You'd report issues with the property month after month after month................... and nothing would ever get corrected. 

The whole time you are losing money on each one of these because of the cost of fuel etc. 
I finally reduced my coverage area and apparently that isn't allowed..... because as soon as I did that the honeymoon was OVER and they got to be really bad to work for.
2 months later they sent me a dear John letter.

I could go on and on with stories about all the companies I worked for. Nationals, regionals etc. Some of the most unethical and illegal activity that I ever witnessed goes on in the name of them making money and you not so much.


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## 68W30

*yup*



GTX63 said:


> Good money is a relative term and different for everyone. Some people need $100 a day to feed their families and are willing to work 18 hours to make it. Bad hourly but it makes ends meet.
> We made good money with Safeguard when we took any and everything they sent, but spent obscene amounts of office time chasing missing and shorted money.
> Grass cuts take maybe 10 minutes to upload.
> Initial service orders a lot longer.
> HPIRs were ridiculous.
> They will put as many vendors in an area until they feel comfortable they can dictate a "take it or leave it" agenda.
> Depending on your mindset and your business ability, you can do ok.



yup that summed it up we did 100 k in a year with them but dropped them as they are just to tedious to deal with


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## 68W30

As i reflect on my time with safeguard i remember an incident , i went to a prop to do initials and said woo hoo apartment building look at those lock changes and wint fees go get it boys ... we were doing our " thing" and a person showed up who claimed to work for the owner of the building ( houston we have a problem ) we ceased further work at this point but we had relocked and winted it all already FFWD the owner shows up yes indeed he had purchased some 60 days prior and then alerted 50 to ride around ( this is why you keep your printed WO on your truck seat ) we called safeguard it got cleared up i handed over the keys and turned the water back on , thankfully a dry heat sytem 


so you say no harm no foul right ??? 

no my safeguard vendor manager Jason Kulwicki (name not changed to protect the innocent ) deleted the WO from the safe guard system like it was never issued 

it took me 4 months to get my money at least i didnt get an RTV 

so if your a NYer tell jason hi from BTS me and may he get cancer of the A hole


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## Backwell

michael.biasi said:


> yup that summed it up we did 100 k in a year with them but dropped them as they are just to tedious to deal with


100k in a year is pretty impressive for a company that is talked so badly about. How often did you have to fight for your money?


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## Wannabe

SG just plain stinks! Fight for pay. Review pics and deny. Chargeback kings for a reason.


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## GTX63

Daily. Example, you may have 150 Safeguard invoices outstanding. You get a check for 45 of the invoices. They screw up a couple of the invoice numbers and short some amounts by a few bucks, or more. You can't match it up with any open invoices in Quickbooks without guessing. No one in accounting can help you or even gives a hoot because it was some low level gum popper that did the work. So, your left with accepting that the check supposed to be $11500, is only $10,980. 

Jason didn't always handle the NY area. He is just another in a long line.


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## BRADSConst

Backwell said:


> 100k in a year is pretty impressive for a company that is talked so badly about. How often did you have to fight for your money?


 
100k is not that impressive if its gross. Its also not that that impressive if its net and you have 100 guys doing the work. Its relative to the size of your company.

Lets say you're a one man show and you gross 100k. After you take out dump fees, fuel, depreciation, phone, insurance, licenses, chargebacks, nopays, etc, etc, etc. and you are left with $20k. Now you worked the average 2k hours in a year (which isn't true if you figure in all the uploading time). That comes out to $10/hr. Not impressive at all as a business owner.

What I'm saying is a revenue number in and of itself doesn't mean squat without knowing all the details that support it. Feb was my best month this year. I grossed 28k just from one regional. Not bad for a one man show with my son as an employee right? Wrong, I didn't make ch!t after, materials, fuel, and paying out my speciality subs (mason, electrician, etc).


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## Backwell

BRADSConst said:


> 100k is not that impressive if its gross. Its also not that that impressive if its net and you have 100 guys doing the work. Its relative to the size of your company.
> 
> Lets say you're a one man show and you gross 100k. After you take out dump fees, fuel, depreciation, phone, insurance, licenses, chargebacks, nopays, etc, etc, etc. and you are left with $20k. Now you worked the average 2k hours in a year (which isn't true if you figure in all the uploading time). That comes out to $10/hr. Not impressive at all as a business owner.
> 
> What I'm saying is a revenue number in and of itself doesn't mean squat without knowing all the details that support it. Feb was my best month this year. I grossed 28k just from one regional. Not bad for a one man show with my son as an employee right? Wrong, I didn't make ch!t after, materials, fuel, and paying out my speciality subs (mason, electrician, etc).


Of course but you're definitely over estimating cost and upkeep. Spending $20 a day on fuel in my truck at these prices would get me 100 miles. Let's say $20 a day, 5 days a week. $100 a week in gas. That's $5600 /yr. 

Insurance isn't too bad, licenses for what? Not everything requires licensing. Not getting paid isn't that bad either, it sucks but it's not as bad as you say. If you are getting no pays it's usually under 10% and if you're getting more than that then you're doing something wrong one way or another. Yearly dump passed here are $65 for unlimited and go up to $120. You spend $500 on all the dumps around you for yearly passes and you're still under $10k expenses per year.

Lock changes, board ups, wints, etc. Thing where you front the cash, just make sure you're bidding to profit on those. You shouldn't be counting those as expenses. You should profit from everything. Paying specialty subs is your prerogative. You're not obligated to take those types of work orders and I'm sure you're capable of learning those jobs. 

So yes, size of the company does matter in regards to the 100k, however your expenses should not increase as the size of your company increases. Expenses should decrease.


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## P3+

Expenses _*DECREASE *_as the size of your business increases? Dude, I want to talk to your economics professor and get some of what he is on. Just sayin, you should do real well working in this biz. Go fight the good fight.


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## BPWY

Backwell said:


> Of course but you're definitely over estimating cost and upkeep. Spending $20 a day on fuel in my truck at these prices would get me 100 miles. Let's say $20 a day, 5 days a week. $100 a week in gas. That's $5600 /yr.





You must be working a highly populated area.

300 miles a day is NOTHING in rural areas. Many days more than 300 miles.


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## P3+

What I wouldn't give to have a truck that ONLY burned a Jackson a day.


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## wmhlc

Spme expenses do decrease. Example the more you pay in workers comp, the rate goes down, so your cost per 100 in payroll drops. Overhead numbers should go down per employee because you are spreading you costs over more man hrs, thus reduces your overhead per hr. Your insurance bill per 1000 goes down becasue rates are based on volume. You may pay more overall but the cost per 1000 in net sales goes down.


Your half rate you may pay more in expenses but your cost per expenses goes down because your spreading the costs over more man hrs.

If you hire just straight labor and your don't have to buy anymore equipment your should a decrease of around 15% per man hr by adding each additional employee.

I just added 1 new employee this year, my overall expenses when up 13% not including payroll. But my cost per hr drop 15% because my overhead expenses went down. 

My math and books shows for every employee I add it adds roughly 90k in sales and 18k in profit. Thats all expenses are paid and all bs is taken care of.

These are just my numbers and its an example.



P3+ said:


> Expenses _*DECREASE *_as the size of your business increases? Dude, I want to talk to your economics professor and get some of what he is on. Just sayin, you should do real well working in this biz. Go fight the good fight.


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## BRADSConst

Backwell said:


> Of course but you're definitely over estimating cost and upkeep. Spending $20 a day on fuel in my truck at these prices would get me 100 miles. Let's say $20 a day, 5 days a week. $100 a week in gas. That's $5600 /yr.
> 
> Insurance isn't too bad, licenses for what? Not everything requires licensing. Not getting paid isn't that bad either, it sucks but it's not as bad as you say. If you are getting no pays it's usually under 10% and if you're getting more than that then you're doing something wrong one way or another. Yearly dump passed here are $65 for unlimited and go up to $120. You spend $500 on all the dumps around you for yearly passes and you're still under $10k expenses per year.
> 
> Lock changes, board ups, wints, etc. Thing where you front the cash, just make sure you're bidding to profit on those. You shouldn't be counting those as expenses. You should profit from everything. Paying specialty subs is your prerogative. *You're not obligated to take those types of work orders and I'm sure you're capable of learning those jobs. *
> 
> So yes, size of the company does matter in regards to the 100k, *however your expenses should not increase as the size of your company increases. Expenses should decrease*.


After your post above. I'm not sure that I (or anybody else here) can help you. One of the biggest expenses I didn't specifically call out is taxes. Don't forget you pay both sides of the FICA and Medicare tax!

You are obviously in free-for-all area. Good luck learning to be a licensed, electrician, plumber or HVAC guy. When you you "learn" those trades, you will learn that you shouldn't and can't work for the prices that nats and regionals want to pay.

I won't get caught in my area pretending to be something I'm not so I can lose my GC license.

By the way, since when does SG allow you to bid a lock change or board up??

Best of luck to you. You're gonna need it. In a different thread you talked about being cash strapped and trading an ATV for a trailer until your check comes in. That is not a good place to be in in this line of work.:no::no:


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## Backwell

P3+ said:


> Expenses _*DECREASE *_as the size of your business increases? Dude, I want to talk to your economics professor and get some of what he is on. Just sayin, you should do real well working in this biz. Go fight the good fight.


Per team. If you're spending 10k a year with one team, 2 teams would be around 17k. Etc.


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## Backwell

BRADSConst said:


> After your post above. I'm not sure that I (or anybody else here) can help you. One of the biggest expenses I didn't specifically call out is taxes. Don't forget you pay both sides of the FICA and Medicare tax!
> 
> You are obviously in free-for-all area. Good luck learning to be a licensed, electrician, plumber or HVAC guy. When you you "learn" those trades, you will learn that you shouldn't and can't work for the prices that nats and regionals want to pay.
> 
> I won't get caught in my area pretending to be something I'm not so I can lose my GC license.
> 
> By the way, since when does SG allow you to bid a lock change or board up??
> 
> Best of luck to you. You're gonna need it. In a different thread you talked about being cash strapped and trading an ATV for a trailer until your check comes in. That is not a good place to be in in this line of work.:no::no:


I've been a contractor for years before this. I have the ability to bid on just about every single thing I do with Safeguard, maybe it's because of my location? The fact is, if you're margins are lower than 20% then you're doing something wrong. Not trying to be rude

The reason I'm cash strapped is because there just is no work right now. Safeguard and other companies have tons of work. So if I'm making money, 20% margin or not I'm going to do it.


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## P3+

Backwell said:


> Per team. If you're spending 10k a year with one team, 2 teams would be around 17k. Etc.


Keep in mind that although some general clerical/ins/wc may fall by marginal percentages. Your need supplies, equipment, safety training, all will increase. Often times these expenses are overlooked (and yes most can be depreciated), and that initial up front cost to properly equip each crew has to be phased in accordingly.


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## wmhlc

Thats all overhead stuff you mentioned and if you are running a business like it suppose to run those costs per man hr go down. You also have to remember your sales are going to increase by at least between 2-4x as much as you pay the employee so you should be running a profit on each employee.

Your overhead per employee is the highest between 3-15 employees after that point your cost per employee goes down becasue you can spread the overhead over more labor hrs.





P3+ said:


> Keep in mind that although some general clerical/ins/wc may fall by marginal percentages. Your need supplies, equipment, safety training, all will increase. Often times these expenses are overlooked (and yes most can be depreciated), and that initial up front cost to properly equip each crew has to be phased in accordingly.


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## P3+

Keep in mind we are talking to someone who cannot afford to buy a trailer and has to trade one of his toys for it. I'm simply pointing out a few things that are often times overlooked by the new comers.

4 years ago I ran 17 employees, 6 trucks, misc. trailers, and other misc. equipment. I can say that was a fiasco and not in the least enjoyable. Cutting down to bare bones has made life tolerable. It never ceased to amaze me at all the little hidden costs that are often overlooked.


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## Backwell

It sounds like you're trying to make your job appear harder than it is so you feel more satisfaction than you need to doing it. Nothing wrong with new people coming in, a lot of people tend to talk bad about the industry and complain perhaps in hopes it will scare others away but honestly it just looks like you can't do the job without complaining and makes you seem like a teenager.

I don't want to argue or hurt any feelings but my financial situation doesn't dictate my knowledge of how to run a business in general. I have a 4 yr degree in business management! I appreciate input especially in regards to my questions but some people should know that it's not completely impossible to get paid. 

I know a ton of people that are making a lot of money from this type of work. It's good work, typically consistent. There are costs but usually they are profitable as long as you're smart enough, pick the right jobs, and don't over-extend yourself. I also understand the overheard with insurance, taxes, supplies, etc but I don't think they are taking your profits down 80%.


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## Splinterpicker

P3+ said:


> Keep in mind we are talking to someone who cannot afford to buy a trailer and has to trade one of his toys for it. I'm simply pointing out a few things that are often times overlooked by the new comers.
> 
> 4 years ago I ran 17 employees, 6 trucks, misc. trailers, and other misc. equipment. I can say that was a fiasco and not in the least enjoyable. Cutting down to bare bones has made life tolerable. It never ceased to amaze me at all the little hidden costs that are often overlooked.


Preach it BROTHER Its just like getting married


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## P3+

Don't misinterpret my negativity as trying to dissuade you or anyone else from jumping in the game. That is a YOU decision, not a me/we decision. I don't think the vendor pool is diluted enough, we need more upstarts in this racket. 
Just make damn certain you go into it with clear eyes, and a willingness to set aside your morals/principals. This industry has rapidly grown immune to both of those characteristics. Be prepared to fight tooth and nail for monies owed, and absolutely don't get tied to just one source of income. Loyalty is nonexistent regardless of your status or ability to perform the work to "above industry standards". 

I wish you luck. Save up while the earnings are plentiful, as their is and always will be peaks and valleys. 

As to your comment earlier about knowing a lot of people making a ton of money in this industry...spend some time with them before you jump in guns blazing. It will save you many headaches. Trust me on this, I did not have a mentor when I breached into this industry and it would have prevented me from burning some resourceful bridges along the way. 




Backwell said:


> It sounds like you're trying to make your job appear harder than it is so you feel more satisfaction than you need to doing it. Nothing wrong with new people coming in, a lot of people tend to talk bad about the industry and complain perhaps in hopes it will scare others away but honestly it just looks like you can't do the job without complaining and makes you seem like a teenager.
> 
> I don't want to argue or hurt any feelings but my financial situation doesn't dictate my knowledge of how to run a business in general. I have a 4 yr degree in business management! I appreciate input especially in regards to my questions but some people should know that it's not completely impossible to get paid.
> 
> I know a ton of people that are making a lot of money from this type of work. It's good work, typically consistent. There are costs but usually they are profitable as long as you're smart enough, pick the right jobs, and don't over-extend yourself. I also understand the overheard with insurance, taxes, supplies, etc but I don't think they are taking your profits down 80%.


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## Backwell

P3+ said:


> Don't misinterpret my negativity as trying to dissuade you or anyone else from jumping in the game. That is a YOU decision, not a me/we decision. I don't think the vendor pool is diluted enough, we need more upstarts in this racket.
> Just make damn certain you go into it with clear eyes, and a willingness to set aside your morals/principals. This industry has rapidly grown immune to both of those characteristics. Be prepared to fight tooth and nail for monies owed, and absolutely don't get tied to just one source of income. Loyalty is nonexistent regardless of your status or ability to perform the work to "above industry standards".
> 
> I wish you luck. Save up while the earnings are plentiful, as their is and always will be peaks and valleys.
> 
> As to your comment earlier about knowing a lot of people making a ton of money in this industry...spend some time with them before you jump in guns blazing. It will save you many headaches. Trust me on this, I did not have a mentor when I breached into this industry and it would have prevented me from burning some resourceful bridges along the way.


I agree that loyalty is gone and haven't expected it for a long time. Everything is about profiting. The reason I was so shocked coming here and hearing all the negativity about SG is because my friend in the ATL area who does close to $1,000,000.00 in revenue yearly rarely has any issues with payment.

They are very hard workers though, he has a crew of 4 and they live out of hotels and cover the entire state. I have only heard positive about them. He started with a rusted truck and no money to where he is now in under 5 years and I thought that was an excellent story. So you can see where my shock came from. I do understand that it's not going to happen to everyone but SG can't be as bad as it's made out to be.


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## BPWY

Backwell said:


> I do understand that it's not going to happen to everyone but SG can't be as bad as it's made out to be.




Don't take our word for it, go to www.ripoffreport.com and punch in SG. 

You'll continue to be shocked!




Besides at their recruitment seminars they have to have a couple successful folks to point to so that they can reel in FNGs.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> Don't take our word for it, go to www.ripoffreport.com and punch in SG.
> 
> You'll continue to be shocked!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides at their recruitment seminars they have to have a couple successful folks to point to so that they can reel in FNGs.


What?? You mean to tell me these FNG's who are ready to make it big in P&P don't know better than us seasoned vets?


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## 68W30

Backwell said:


> 100k in a year is pretty impressive for a company that is talked so badly about. How often did you have to fight for your money?


 it should have been 130k that year and at the time we did work for them there was no such thing as a " regional company " there were less vendors and HUD allowable was somewhat adhered too. as stated earlier in the post they flood the area with vendors and now so do regionals ( at that time regionals covered seven counties or sometimes less ) and give you a " take it or leave it " they didnt have that option then, also it seemed they would pick and choose the RTV or RTS issues dependent on distance and value of invoice ,, the farther away the more likely you would get one. they once declined an invoice for a sales clean over a bottle of cleaner sitting on a counter in an "after" pic , we werent willing to travel 40 miles round trip to retake the 'after' pic so we ate the 150 ,another cool trick was after you got one RTV or RTS and fulfilled it they would send another 
true enough the whole deal to which im speaking was at or about 3g pre discount they ground it to death ex post factos so cost to me for this 3g job was at or about 14 hundred with tipping dumpsters cleaning supplies add discount @ 25% 750 + 1400 we got 2150 overhead here we get 750 net for the day sounds good but wait 150 for a bottle of cleaner left on a counter ,, so now 600 net but wait that fantastic website user friendly and full of fuzzy kittens and puppies
the time to write the bid etc BTW trip charge is deducted if bid is awarded within 30 days - 25bux 550net 

do you think because they are required to get 2 bids when it hits X dollars they only get 2 or do they get 4 or maybe 6 bids ( flooded with contractors ) 
then we go into lowest " qualified" bid so lets say bid 4 and 5 are kicked out bid 1,2,and 6 are presented my 3g bid is never seen by the "client " but awarded to vendor 4 (thats us ) even though it was never presented to the client ( we are subs dont get it wrong thats all we are, they are the contractors ) so now bank blah has 3 bids we have and we have an approved WO for 3g

lets recap they billed "client" according to number vendor 2s bid at 4 g instant 1k profit charged us 150 for the cleaner pulled back the 25 for the trip charge add in 25% percent discount charge to us 750 
so 1k+150+750 1900 to them on a 3g bid 
btw its net and usually up to 60 days before pay so if you got those dumpsters on your visa @ 19% ,,,,


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## Backwell

michael.biasi said:


> it should have been 130k that year and at the time we did work for them there was no such thing as a " regional company " there were less vendors and HUD allowable was somewhat adhered too. as stated earlier in the post they flood the area with vendors and now so do regionals ( at that time regionals covered seven counties or sometimes less ) and give you a " take it or leave it " they didnt have that option then, also it seemed they would pick and choose the RTV or RTS issues dependent on distance and value of invoice ,, the farther away the more likely you would get one. they once declined an invoice for a sales clean over a bottle of cleaner sitting on a counter in an "after" pic , we werent willing to travel 40 miles round trip to retake the 'after' pic so we ate the 150 ,another cool trick was after you got one RTV or RTS and fulfilled it they would send another
> true enough the whole deal to which im speaking was at or about 3g pre discount they ground it to death ex post factos so cost to me for this 3g job was at or about 14 hundred with tipping dumpsters cleaning supplies add discount @ 25% 750 + 1400 we got 2150 overhead here we get 750 net for the day sounds good but wait 150 for a bottle of cleaner left on a counter ,, so now 600 net but wait that fantastic website user friendly and full of fuzzy kittens and puppies
> the time to write the bid etc BTW trip charge is deducted if bid is awarded within 30 days - 25bux 550net
> 
> do you think because they are required to get 2 bids when it hits X dollars they only get 2 or do they get 4 or maybe 6 bids ( flooded with contractors )
> then we go into lowest " qualified" bid so lets say bid 4 and 5 are kicked out bid 1,2,and 6 are presented my 3g bid is never seen by the "client " but awarded to vendor 4 (thats us ) even though it was never presented to the client ( we are subs dont get it wrong thats all we are, they are the contractors ) so now bank blah has 3 bids we have and we have an approved WO for 3g
> 
> lets recap they billed "client" according to number vendor 2s bid at 4 g instant 1k profit charged us 150 for the cleaner pulled back the 25 for the trip charge add in 25% percent discount charge to us 750
> so 1k+150+750 1900 to them on a 3g bid
> btw its net and usually up to 60 days before pay so if you got those dumpsters on your visa @ 19% ,,,,


So you bid 3k for the job. You can't count their profit. 
$3.000 minus $25(trip charge), $minus 150(you messed up your pictures), $750(expected 25% discount you agreed to.) = *$2,075 profit on the job.* 

The credit card interest you can't count either. The vendors can decide whether or not to use credit cards and besides you said within 30 days the trip charge isn't counted so that 19% shouldn't have really effected you. 
You didn't drive 40 miles round trip to get $150 and you messed up the pictures. How are they to assume you brought the bottle with you? That's what the pictures are for. The discount is expected, their profit is expected. You made $2,075.00 on that job according to your data and it could've been $2225.00 but you messed up. I'm not saying Safeguard isn't a bad company. I'm saying your error caused a loss and you still profited for the job, minus your alleged $1,400 for cleaning supplies which is ridiculous. Even on a huge clean that is insane.


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## 68W30

btw that year was over 375k 10 guys on and off 3 trucks two mowers safe guard was the low dog on the pay end but they did manage to almost double my hours worked per week effectively dropping my gross pay from 15 bux to 9 bux an hour but it was a 90 hour week 52 weeks a year so i made it up in volume LMAO ,,, Then BOA came on the scene and due to the fact they had / have the most inventory they are able to manipulate the entire industry and further drop pricing from better paying banks . boa says to wells "we only pay x" wells says "well dang son, were going to price match " KABOOM knoblock change with deadbolt goes from 60 to 30 , no worries they cost more to buy , but wait we are going to give you 300 WO and ten pages of PCR to fill out your going to get rich


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## 68W30

Backwell said:


> So you bid 3k for the job. You can't count their profit.
> $3.000 minus $25(trip charge), $minus 150(you messed up your pictures), $750(expected 25% discount you agreed to.) = *$2,075 profit on the job.*
> 
> The credit card interest you can't count either. The vendors can decide whether or not to use credit cards and besides you said within 30 days the trip charge isn't counted so that 19% shouldn't have really effected you.
> You didn't drive 40 miles round trip to get $150 and you messed up the pictures. How are they to assume you brought the bottle with you? That's what the pictures are for. The discount is expected, their profit is expected. You made $2,075.00 on that job according to your data and it could've been $2225.00 but you messed up. I'm not saying Safeguard isn't a bad company. I'm saying your error caused a loss and you still profited for the job, minus your alleged $1,400 for cleaning supplies which is ridiculous. Even on a huge clean that is insane.


the dumpster part you missed the dumpster part


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## Backwell

michael.biasi said:


> the dumpster part you missed the dumpster part


Why are the dumpsters you rent so expensive? I had one rented for $180 upfront for the drop off and pick up then an additional $30 per ton. You paid ten times that? What companies do you work with right now?


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## BPWY

Backwell said:


> Why are the dumpsters you rent so expensive? I had one rented for $180 upfront for the drop off and pick up then an additional $30 per ton. You paid ten times that? What companies do you work with right now?






REALLY????? You think that costs and fees are the same nationwide?????


I've gotten 30 yarders for just under $400.
I've had them priced to me at $800.


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## Backwell

BPWY said:


> REALLY????? You think that costs and fees are the same nationwide?????
> 
> 
> I've gotten 30 yarders for just under $400.
> I've had them priced to me at $800.


Of course not but 1000% price increase seems a bit incredulous.


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## BPWY

Easy answer..... multiple dumpsters required for the job.


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## BRADSConst

BPWY said:


> Easy answer..... multiple dumpsters required for the job.


I give up.......FNG's who have all the answers and can't or won't listen to reason can not be helped.:sad:


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## Backwell

BPWY said:


> Easy answer..... multiple dumpsters required for the job.


That would still mean he was using 8 dumpsters per job. Also, even if he took 40 hours to clean that house and most likely only 8 max worse case then he still made around $14.50 per hour. When I was a child my dad owned a cleaning business and they did this stuff all the time but on a person to person basis and could empty and entire house splitting garbage, packing things up in boxes and putting them on the truck in a few hours. Again, I just want to state that I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just trying to lay things out for people. I haven't read anything where it showed Safeguard intentionally did something to benefit themselves by screwing over the sub. It mostly seems like all the complaints are from people who messed up a job, didn't meet Safeguards strict regulations or think they deserve more money.

Safeguard or any company is in the same position we are. They have to prove and meet these standards. They will not get paid if they do not. Secondly if they set the standard at 100% job done most contractors will do 80% maybe 90% of the job. That's expected. So they have these high standards for proof to make sure they get the job done properly the first time.


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## 68W30

first off 

"Safeguard or any company is in the same position we are. They have to prove and meet these standards. They will not get paid if they do not. Secondly if they set the standard at 100% job done most contractors will do 80% maybe 90% of the job. That's expected. So they have these high standards for proof to make sure they get the job done properly the first time. " 

if this is how you feel are you the 80 percent guy or the 90 percent guy ? 

currently we go the five 9s of service rule 0.99999 correct 


180 a dumpster ? where do they put it ? in a river ?
currently we pay 300 to 400 a pull for a 30 and outta pocket on the weight which is sitting @ 85 per ton county facility and up to 135 per ton private WMS, Royal etc 
40s have a tendency to clip over head lines in inner city settings so are hard to use or get but go for 325 400 a pull same deal on weight

hours are based on man hours IE 5 guys 8 hours = 40 dont forget travel we all get paid to look out the window 

dare we digress
i think the key thing you missed is i was charged back 150 for a bottle of cleaner on a counter , true thats a pic screwup , is it worth 150? no , did the client enjoy that discount ? i doubt it 

did you read my earlier love letter about safeguard sending us on an initial secure /wint where the building had been sold , new owner arrived , followed by the PO PO 
then safeguard deleted the WO like it never happened 
thats the one i wished that jason got kissed on the brown eye by the cancer god 

the point of my original rant/ recollection of the o so heady times of my tenure with safeguard was and still is they are a bunch of nickle and dimeing mother Fers , i do not begrudge them the money they make , so much as how they do it 
read back there is ALWAYS a charge back for big ticket WOs at least one line item is kicked back or massaged out of shape 



and in retrospect i recant my wishes for ass cancer on jason
but if he **** his pants in public id want full before during and after pics and a 9 page PCR ( pants condition report ) as well as fully qualified bids from licensed triply insured dry cleaners who names us as also insured with 2 mil in e and o ins , full documentation on absolutely everything he ate ,,,,,,,,,,,

we will need 100 pics min on this 
it pays 25.00 
itsa rush 

ya know what best of luck and godspeed 


but if you , in 90 days posted a thread " top ten reason safeguard ruined the cosmos " i wouldnt be surprised


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## Backwell

What companies would you recommend then? Who do you work with now? If not safeguard, then who? Is anyone doing the right thing?


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## BPWY

Backwell said:


> What companies would you recommend then? Who do you work with now? If not safeguard, then who? *Is anyone doing the right thing?*






If you find one I'd keep the name to yourself. Because EVERY BODY will want to work for a reasonable and honest company.


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## GTX63

Backwell said:


> What companies would you recommend then? Who do you work with now? If not safeguard, then who? Is anyone doing the right thing?


I don't recommend anyone; I just relate experiences.

Your a nex gen preservation contractor; you need to start working for these companies so the newbs behind you will have someone in the know.


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## RichR

Its as if someone left the barn door open. You know like theres a Fox in the Hen house? :whistling2:
Just thinking out loud is all


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## BRADSConst

Backwell said:


> What companies would you recommend then? Who do you work with now? If not safeguard, then who? Is anyone doing the right thing?


If you think Safeguard is OK..........Give Lamco a try :whistling2:

DISCLAIMER: READ EVERYTHING YOU CAN FIND IN THIS FORUM BEFORE SIGNING UP

In all seriousness, IMHO it isn't about the companies that you, me or any of the rest of us work for. It is more about the relationships you build and the type of work you perform. Think about that last sentence and how it relates to almost every post from the likes of GTX63, BPWY, MTNMTMAN, FREMONT REO (by the way where is Fremont did he stay at CT?) and numerous others

In terms of relationships, meet and know who your brokers are. Give them courtesy calls when being sent to a property. When you wint a house that is closing tomorrow, and you will, if you talk with the broker about servicing the property, you open the door to dewint the house for that broker. Talk with neighbors. I've gotten a few private party grass cuts when mowing foreclosures. They will pay as much or more and you don't have to wait 30-60 days to get paid.

As for the type of work. DO NOT PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN THE P&P BASKET and don't put all your eggs in one clients basket. I do little P&P work anymore. I am now doing FNMA and FMAC repairs and rehab. The photos required are much less and the broker walks through the house and signs off so you get paid. No BS of photos don't justify. This is in addition to my private customers I work for. Others here work directly for brokers. Others are lawncare and landscape companies, etc.

Money can be made in P&P. It comes down to perspective and risk versus reward. I much rather spend three days roofing then 14 days straight mowing grass. My family sees me more and it is more profitable. Plus it gives me more down time to post here :clap:


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## BPWY

Thank you Brad, for the kind words and the great advice!



Fremont stayed at CT but the man behind the curtain is still here.
The name has been changed to protect the guilty.


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## 68W30

there is no good one there is no bad one ( so to speak ) our model here has changed in that we work for as many companies as we can in a tight zip code range. we dont do the 100 mile long by 100 mile wide deal and we dont limit ourselves to just one company 

i have been known to photograph posting from regionals and nationals on properties and call them tell them who i am what i do elaborate that im a local this is my " backyard", i call the brokers who leave cards and ask after REO services when on the road and i spy another contractor i stop and chat offer a work share to keep our workers working and keep us more local to our home base and them the same 
it used to be how much i made those days are over now its how cost effectively i can do the job 

with the work share i got going with two others we cover 4 to counties but never cross one anothers path and we dont follow each other leap frogging if you will

we branch out and reach out and sell our product if your doing lawns talk to the neighbor ask who does there lawn are they happy tell them your there every two weeks if they want there lawn done and it fits your circle come once a week. we have taken over entire cul de sacs this way for all intents and purposes we are SUPER handy men ( and some women ) we know at the very least the basics of every system you can encounter in a home so sell that at inhabited buildings

be ready to cut a company away from your business model if they dont serve you i have about three houses i have been too for multiple companies safeguard BE Mcaffery etc they players will cut you dont doubt it 

do not get taken advantage of try to get an RVM you can talk to and gravitate to them when you have to or have issues


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## GTX63

We're all still here.


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## BRADSConst

BPWY said:


> Thank you Brad, for the kind words and the great advice!
> 
> 
> 
> Fremont stayed at CT but the man behind the curtain is still here.
> The name has been changed to protect the guilty.


BPWY or "new" Fremont. Please PM me on how to get in touch. A while back on CT there was an offer in a thread to help take our skills to a new level. I'd love to pick you brain on mold and water remediation. I've looked for classes to take on becoming certified but I haven't found anything for WI. I also wouldn't mind knowing how you got a $2500 roof tarp job that took 4 hours:yes:


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## BPWY

I'll make sure he sees your request.


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## Backwell

BRADSConst said:


> If you think Safeguard is OK..........Give Lamco a try :whistling2:
> 
> DISCLAIMER: READ EVERYTHING YOU CAN FIND IN THIS FORUM BEFORE SIGNING UP
> 
> In all seriousness, IMHO it isn't about the companies that you, me or any of the rest of us work for. It is more about the relationships you build and the type of work you perform. Think about that last sentence and how it relates to almost every post from the likes of GTX63, BPWY, MTNMTMAN, FREMONT REO (by the way where is Fremont did he stay at CT?) and numerous others
> 
> In terms of relationships, meet and know who your brokers are. Give them courtesy calls when being sent to a property. When you wint a house that is closing tomorrow, and you will, if you talk with the broker about servicing the property, you open the door to dewint the house for that broker. Talk with neighbors. I've gotten a few private party grass cuts when mowing foreclosures. They will pay as much or more and you don't have to wait 30-60 days to get paid.
> 
> As for the type of work. DO NOT PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN THE P&P BASKET and don't put all your eggs in one clients basket. I do little P&P work anymore. I am now doing FNMA and FMAC repairs and rehab. The photos required are much less and the broker walks through the house and signs off so you get paid. No BS of photos don't justify. This is in addition to my private customers I work for. Others here work directly for brokers. Others are lawncare and landscape companies, etc.
> 
> Money can be made in P&P. It comes down to perspective and risk versus reward. I much rather spend three days roofing then 14 days straight mowing grass. My family sees me more and it is more profitable. Plus it gives me more down time to post here :clap:


This is excellent advice. I was thinking about doing almost exclusively grass cuts during that season. 20 cuts a day on normal sized lawns with a good path between properties seems doable. Just spoke to Safeguard and they send out checks weekly still so it it's just like any normal job where you get paid this week for the work you did last week, etc. 

Does anyone know of that company that had the women head, she worked I think in the midwest and she was a regular on one of these forums. Contractor talk or something? She was recruiting a lot of people and I think had an excellent business going but I lost the emails from her.

Was about 2-3 years ago. I think she got her start doing mostly pools. They had a brown website IIRC. Seems like if they're still around I would love to work for them again since they've done this and know the troubles.


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## Backwell

michael.biasi said:


> there is no good one there is no bad one ( so to speak ) our model here has changed in that we work for as many companies as we can in a tight zip code range. we dont do the 100 mile long by 100 mile wide deal and we dont limit ourselves to just one company
> 
> i have been known to photograph posting from regionals and nationals on properties and call them tell them who i am what i do elaborate that im a local this is my " backyard", i call the brokers who leave cards and ask after REO services when on the road and i spy another contractor i stop and chat offer a work share to keep our workers working and keep us more local to our home base and them the same
> it used to be how much i made those days are over now its how cost effectively i can do the job
> 
> with the work share i got going with two others we cover 4 to counties but never cross one anothers path and we dont follow each other leap frogging if you will
> 
> we branch out and reach out and sell our product if your doing lawns talk to the neighbor ask who does there lawn are they happy tell them your there every two weeks if they want there lawn done and it fits your circle come once a week. we have taken over entire cul de sacs this way for all intents and purposes we are SUPER handy men ( and some women ) we know at the very least the basics of every system you can encounter in a home so sell that at inhabited buildings
> 
> be ready to cut a company away from your business model if they dont serve you i have about three houses i have been too for multiple companies safeguard BE Mcaffery etc they players will cut you dont doubt it
> 
> do not get taken advantage of try to get an RVM you can talk to and gravitate to them when you have to or have issues


You just said Mccaffrey, are you located in Upstate NY? I was working for the business known as them before. The worse crooks I've ever dealt with. I had some friends working internally there too and one of the girls was telling me he would make her cry and others cry constantly while telling them to lie about pictures, etc. 

They tried to get me to redesign and recode their website to match mine at the time because I had a custom interface set up to make my subcontractors quick in accepting jobs without me emailing them, etc.


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## 68W30

You just said Mccaffrey, are you located in Upstate NY? I was working for the business known as them before. The worse crooks I've ever dealt with. I had some friends working internally there too and one of the girls was telling me he would make her cry and others cry constantly while telling them to lie about pictures, etc. 

They tried to get me to redesign and recode their website to match mine at the time because I had a custom interface set up to make my subcontractors quick in accepting jobs without me emailing them, etc.


would you mean imperial and yes they came and went like the wind 

asked me to do unsavory things etc etc 

i actually spoke with mike


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## Splinterpicker

GTX63 said:


> We're all still here.


DAD I wonderd where you went !!


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## GTX63

michael.biasi said:


> i think the key thing you missed is i was charged back 150 for a bottle of cleaner on a counter , true thats a pic screwup , is it worth 150? no , did the client enjoy that discount ? i doubt it


 

Backwell- "Safeguard or any company is in the same position we are. They have to prove and meet these standards. They will not get paid if they do not. " 

Just a FYI example for the underinformed.

My pal Louie has 15 rental houses that are sitting empty and are junk. I tell Louie that if he'll pay me 5K per house, up front, I'll get them rent ready and in marketable condition in 30 days. He cuts me a check and goes home. I figure it'll take 3k per house to do the job. I hire Manuel and Shemp to bid the work. I tell them since I'm giving them a bulk order I want a kickback. Then if they don't do the work exactly as I say (or not) I'm not paying them.

a. They don't pocket your money and then bill the client; they bid a contract, got paid, and then pocketed your money.

b. They made their money before you even showed up. Anything else they can whittle off the stick is sugar.

Not all Nationals are the same, some are worse.


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## jgibson5509

FearlessTeapot said:


> We worked for them around 10 years ago. The website was horrible, the pay was low, and the expectations were very high. We stopped working for them back then and moved on.
> 
> Recently, we started working for them again, doing REO stuff. Again, the pay was too low, the expectations too high, and the website seems even worse than before. There were over 200 questions on one of their PCRs I filled out for an initial services maid order. Also, the layout is terrible. You have to upload all of your photos on the first page, then hit next and wait 1-3 minutes for the next to load. Answer the questions, then 'assign' pictures. Forget to upload an air freshener pic? Back to page 1 and the waits associated with switching between pages.
> 
> Also, they ask questions that are not relevant. A recent example would be a PCR that required Fireplace information. The home didn't have one, but that wasn't an option on the form. We had to describe this nonexistant fireplace by clicking radio buttons indicating the condition of various parts of it, until we got to the end of that section where we typed in, "there is no fireplace here.' Really amateur website.
> 
> They require a 100% immaculate home on an initial maid service order, and literally send an inspector to every house you do while in your probationary period. If the whole house does not pass their 'white glove test,' they send you back. Not a big deal, except that you will lose money doing this. The pay is not enough to justify the manpower you will need to get this done.
> 
> In addition, it's tough to get a question answered over there. When you call in and ask for someone, you get transferred. I have literally not once gotten the person I asked for when speaking to an operator first. The majority of the time, you don't even get someone in the same department. I actually got someone in billing once while trying to ask a question about a maid service. They can take a message and have someone call you back, but that takes hours.
> 
> Their preservation side may be better, I don't know. I could not justify working their REO side anymore, though. We quit them again after only a couple of months - we were just losing money and not getting any preservation/bids back to make up for it.


Yeah, I been working for them for about 6 months now. I just can’t keep making them Money and watching my money go out the window. Everything this person said is the exact experience I’m going through. Horrible pay, basically under minimum wage. They want you to have 3 people to perform a Maid Service. Problem is you can’t pay them 3 individual’s, and make a profit. Also the many jobs basically all of the jobs you do you have to dispute. This company is a straight scam, can’t believe they’re rated as high as they are.


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