# When Did Cost Estimator Get Implemented



## Bottomfeeder (Nov 11, 2015)

Does anyone remember when HUD adopted the C/E? I am getting chargebacks on FULL BID APPROVALS from as far back as 2012 stating it does not meet C/E. 
I can't remember when it was put in effect?


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## idaho (Oct 20, 2012)

I would totally talk to lawyer on that one with a copy of the last dated contract you signed with that company before the latest date of the chargeback, any workorder that you have approval of that you were chargeback for or any email with poc approval or any email stating it will get paid on the property you were chargeback for, sometimes just the verbage they use when responding to you could void any contract you signed for that order. (no I shouldn't say that, thats for a lawyer to tell you, but I am hoping you understand the importance of all information you can bring.)

My last lawyer costed 200 per hour but within that hour he told me all I needed to know without needing him any further. But if you let this go un-answered you are in a never ending story.


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

November 14, 2011 05:56 PM Eastern Standard Time


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Is the cost estimator legal? If someone were to pursue it would this stand up in court or would it be considered price fixing/gouging.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Is the cost estimator legal? If someone were to pursue it would this stand up in court or would it be considered price fixing/gouging.


 That's a good question, but I wouldn't think that it's price fixing. HUD is using a third party, IE RepairBase. If HUD created their own cost estimator, than maybe.

I think its similar to insurance claims. Adjusters use Xactimate to determine what they are willing to pay out on losses as well. But what the hell do I know.

However, if a bid is accepted and then charged back weeks, months, years down the road for not using a cost estimator, I believe that's a totally different animal. Adjustments made after accepting a price and work completion is bull****.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*The way I look at it, if they are going to make stuff up*

after the fact, you can create your own policies that do the same. It is in bad faith of the original accepted bid. There is no judge anywhere that could rule any other way, and certainly not two if you have to take it to a higher court. 

Send them a stack of adjusted invoices for all the work you have ever done. Hell take your 1099 and add 10% to it call it a post audit discretionary secret and dangerous mission charge. 

I wouldn't stand still for it, but you know how much the client is worth to you, and that's your decision. I would be willing to burn most any bridge over that.


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm curious to know which national is doing this. 
I'm suspecting the sisters because they seem to be sinking and I see them trying to take as much money as possible in the process. 

Pricing has changed a lot on CE since 2012 and not necessarily for the better. I have been using CE since bids were getting reduced per CE but have never received anything telling me to use it. In fact I only found out it was Repair Base from requesting proof when a bid was reduced. With that said I still continued to have bids reduced despite using it and when trying to appeal, I was required to give a break down of my material costs and man hours. They wouldn't stand by CE. 
If I were you, I would go through all my jobs and look them up on the CE. Anything that comes up higher than your bid, send them a bill for the difference. After all, they are basically saying bid approvals don't matter, only the CE does. 
Use that to your advantage.


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

What was the service you preformed? It may not have even been on CE in 2012.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I'm going to the gas station this morning, I'm going*

to give them a bill for all the $4 gas I bought in 2012, my new cost estimator has gas at $1.80 today.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Some day an atty outfit is going to have the knowledge and "bravery" to do the class action suit against this industry for RICO violations and Sherman Act Anti-Trust violations. 

If I was still operating with a National and received a chargeback withholding for a CE "overcharge" then I sure as heck would be auditing every job back to 2012 to see about invoicing supplementals where appropriate. 

Brad mentioned on previous post how insurance companies require xactimate and this is true if you are into insurance repair work but there are plenty of lawsuits out there against insurance carriers for requiring using xactimate. 

There are so many similarities from insurance vs property preservation work that you could switch the job title and envision 1000's of future lawsuits. The only difference is the Ins Repair contractors are not taking it laying down.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> Some day an atty outfit is going to have the knowledge and "bravery" to do the class action suit against this industry for RICO violations and Sherman Act Anti-Trust violations.
> 
> If I was still operating with a National and received a chargeback withholding for a CE "overcharge" then I sure as heck would be auditing every job back to 2012 to see about invoicing supplementals where appropriate.
> 
> ...



This was kind of my thinking here. I think the precedent just needs to be set. The very definition of an independent contractor means I chose my pricing. They can ask me what I will do a job for etc but I have the right to set my pricing. They also have the right not to accept my pricing.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Once they opened that can of worms with me*



Wannabe said:


> If I was still operating with a National and received a chargeback withholding for a CE "overcharge" then I sure as heck would be auditing every job back to 2012 to see about invoicing supplementals where appropriate.



I would do my best to make them choke on it. 

Oh,Games! I like games. Most people don't realize their best weapon, The Truth.


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## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

Craigslist Hack said:


> This was kind of my thinking here. I think the precedent just needs to be set. The very definition of an independent contractor means I chose my pricing. They can ask me what I will do a job for etc but I have the right to set my pricing. They also have the right not to accept my pricing.



Just imagine all the members on here filing a class action suit.
We bankroll all the jobs.
We should be bankrolling action against the thief's.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Bigtrucker said:


> Just imagine all the members on here filing a class action suit.
> We bankroll all the jobs.
> We should be bankrolling action against the thief's.


Wells Fargo would be paying millions.


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## SeenIt (Jul 30, 2015)

Here's a good one. We received a "bid cut" bid approval. We kicked it back stating we were unable to complete at that price. They sent us another bid approval work order a few days later for our original pricing. We completed the work as bid. The chargeback came a month later stating we overcharged. Unbelievable.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

SeenIt said:


> We received a "bid cut" bid approval. We kicked it back stating we were unable to complete at that price. They sent us another bid approval work order a few days later for our original pricing. We completed the work as bid. The chargeback came a month later stating we overcharged.


I knew the end to this story before I read the last sentence.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> I knew the end to this story before I read the last sentence.



Yeah I've seen that particular move a few times. You have to report "conditions" have changed and rebid it. Otherwise they will hit you with a charge back. :vs_worry:


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