# How I got out of P&P



## Wannabe

This may be more appropriate in the Off Topic but anyone can follow My path:

The writing was on the wall what the P&P was becoming back in 2009. Here is what I did.

We always did a substantial amount of structural drying on foreclosed homes SO we decided to go get our certifications from the IICRC. www.iicrc.com Once you get your certifications you are eligible to do Insurance Mitigation work. You take the classes to gain your WRT (water restoration tech) & your ASD (applied structural drying) certifications. 

Once you earn your certifications you can sign up with Code Blue (www.codeblue.com), Home Advisors (www.homeadvisor.com) and Contractor Connection (Google this one). Code Blue handles claims for Am Fam and a handful of other companies, Contractor Connection handles Allstate,Usaa and others and Home Advisors (used to be Service Magic) handles private party work.

The WRT Class is 3 days long and approx $600. The ASD Class is 2 days long. 

You will need to invest or rent some basic equipment. This will cost you approximately the same as a nicely equipped lawn mower BUT will generate you 50x more income than your lawn mower. 

This basic equipment package generated us over $200k gross and we expanded to 51 dehumidifier and 300+ airmovers with $600k gross yearly income. Www.damageclean.com is our company. 

YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!!!

AGAIN: another service YOU are asked to do in the P&P business is mold remediation. Go get your certifications and be paid what you are worth! You will need that WRT certification from the IICRC since it's a prerequisite to obtaining tour AMRT (Antimicrobial remediation tech). There are many ways to get business!!! I would tell you some secrets but I see Heartland is in Florida and we are opening a 2nd location in Fl in the next 30-60 days so....can't give all my secrets away 

In the month of Apr we did over $80k in mold work on foreclosed homes and June will be more than Apr. YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!!

AGAIN: another service you are asked to perform are inspections. Go get your Home Insectors license and get paid what you WORTH!! Yes I'm a home inspector also BUT don't have much time to fish this pond. We do charge $350-400 per inspection. There are a lot of companies BEGGING for licensed inspectors and easily earn $100,000 per year without having to find a lead.

I came from an Insurance background. Since we remodel/construct/fix homes I am an advocate for homeowners with Ins Claims. Www.heartlandpublicadjusting.com (see Heartland your name made me want to give you ideas/options). There are tons of companies out there that will train anyone to learn the business. You would find out that your life and career experience is important. There is a forum member who asked my advice and got licensed and burning up the State of Ohio with work. It's gratifying to help people who got the shaft from the Ins Co!!!

When I walked from the P&P business (11-1-11) we were doing 2,000,000 yearly gross (net stunk since we paid our subs 88% of gross) minus our employees and overhead. We never looked back since we had FAITH in our abilities.. Have faith in what you can do!!! Take baby steps away from the insanity and your bank acct will grow and you will keep your sanity.

Hope this helps.

My rambling is over


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## GTX63

Great story ^^^^^.
We have always majored in rehabs, rentals, flips and basic general contracting 101. REO/Preservation was never our main feature, although we did huge numbers with a lot of them. We started as favors for brokers who couldn't get decent crews, who then referred us to their clients. Like a bad romance, we kept getting pulled in deeper and deeper. It got to the point where we had to hire staff to do nothing but manage the follow ups and silly bs from nationals. Instead of taking the weekend off, I was in front of the laptop dealing with ridiculous chargebacks and call backs. I started looking at our P&Ls and realized I was doing 300k with XYZ Preservation and netting 30k + nonesense, and 100K building porches and decks and netting 60k+ referrals. 

Wannabe the writing has been on the wall for so long it is beginning to fade. Maybe that is why so many still don't understand the Preservation scam.


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## Wannabe

Gtx,

You are so right. The business has faded past the point of no return. You like me got involved by pure accident. I began in the late 80's writing force placed insurance on foreclosed homes and got sucked in to inspections then lock changes then into full P&P work. Back in those days we were getting paid very handsomely and was happy to do it. Look where the industry has went---$395 trashouts and in the '90s we were getting a "flat" $1500+ for 20-30cyds. Then add on the other services. 

I just shake my head at today's nonsense.


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## bigdaddy

Great job wannabe!
Its about time I heard something positive on this site:thumbup:
Do yourself a favor and contact Wells Fargo and get on their repair team. They will only hire you if you do mold and you will get TONS of work! (As long as you do good work! You will be graded on every job by the agent) You will need to do everything else but you can sub it out if you need to. We do almost everything in-house but the only 3 things I sub out are carpets, roof, and mold, I was going to get certified but to be honest, I make enough off of everything else that I can afford to sub it out. To give you an idea of the work, I paid my mold sub $438K last year! We did over $2M in total work and your margins will be allot higher then the 12% you were making in P&M.


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## LaCaSa

bigdaddy said:


> Great job wannabe!
> Its about time I heard something positive on this site:thumbup:
> Do yourself a favor and contact Wells Fargo and get on their repair team. They will only hire you if you do mold and you will get TONS of work! You will need to do everything else but you can sub it out if you need to. We do almost everything in-house but the only 3 things I sub out are carpets, roof, and mold, I was going to get certified but to be honest, I make enough off of everything else that I can afford to sub it out. To give you an idea of the work, I paid my mold sub $438K last year! We did over $2M in total work.


Are you with the brokers directly? If you dont mind me asking.


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## All Island Handy

hey , so I just got my mold remediation specialist cert (MRS) after seeing WANNABE"s post and living in WA state I figured it looked like a good way to get out of p&p we have lots of mold here and I am flat SICK of p&p. I was wanting to see if anybody has any good or bad stories ( leads or warnings ) about companies to work with in this field?


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## BRADSConst

All Island Handy said:


> hey , so I just got my mold remediation specialist cert (MRS) after seeing WANNABE"s post and living in WA state I figured it looked like a good way to get out of p&p we have lots of mold here and I am flat SICK of p&p. I was wanting to see if anybody has any good or bad stories ( leads or warnings ) about companies to work with in this field?


Send Wannabe a PM. 

As far as what I've been told, don't know this first hand, if you are certified you can get on a FNMA approved vendor list without having to be a SAMS vendor. Then you can start reaping the rewards from the chargebacks on the P&P vendors.....:clap::clap:


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## All Island Handy

BRADSConst said:


> Send Wannabe a PM.
> 
> As far as what I've been told, don't know this first hand, if you are certified you can get on a FNMA approved vendor list without having to be a SAMS vendor. Then you can start reaping the rewards from the chargebacks on the P&P vendors.....:clap::clap:


PM sent !!!! man that would be great, I am looking into that now thanks for the info


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## Wannabe

Congrats All Island Handy! 

If you send the PM I will get you a number to call to get on the FNMA Direct vendor list. There are a couple providers but you will need the WRT & AMRT Certifications. The MRS is a new thing and not to familiar with. Was the test hard? I thought about taking it to see how it compares to the week long AMRT Course so the techs can take for a certification without the $1000 course fee plus motels/travel expenses.


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## All Island Handy

well the course took me about a week, learned a whole lot about how wrong these nationals are asking people to just bleach and kilz, I passed the test the first time, it was pretty damn hard but I did a quick run thru of the whole course right befor I took it, the test tuched on the structural drying enough to complete the remediation, but not real in depth. I am going to start there structural drying course on Monday, even if not required it couldn't hurt to add to the certifications we hold. WANNABE thanks for all the help and info.


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## GTX63

All Island Handy said:


> learned a whole lot about how wrong these nationals are asking people to just bleach and kilz,


That thing he just said^^^^^


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## Irnhrse5

What mold remediation course do you suggest taking? I've seen prices range from $39.95 to $499. Both are 40 hours courses. What is the industry standard?


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## BRADSConst

Irnhrse5 said:


> What mold remediation course do you suggest taking? I've seen prices range from $39.95 to $499. Both are 40 hours courses. What is the industry standard?


The standard used by insurance companies is S520. IICRC is the accreditation that most look for.


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## All Island Handy

so does anyone know if it is possible to work direct for say WF or JPMC with the mold and water damage certifications or if this would go thrue the nationals too?


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## BRADSConst

All Island Handy said:


> so does anyone know if it is possible to work direct for say WF or JPMC with the mold and water damage certifications or if this would go thrue the nationals too?


 WF does there rehab through PAS. I'd guess you'd have to go through them. I have no idea on JPMC.


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## All Island Handy

BRADSConst said:


> WF does there rehab through PAS. I'd guess you'd have to go through them. I have no idea on JPMC.


thanks BRADS im looking into PAS but cant seem to find anything on JPMC.....well one hurdle at a time I guess.:thumbup:


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## TLC Homes

BRADSConst said:


> Send Wannabe a PM.
> 
> As far as what I've been told, don't know this first hand, if you are certified you can get on a FNMA approved vendor list without having to be a SAMS vendor. Then you can start reaping the rewards from the chargebacks on the P&P vendors.....:clap::clap:


Do you have any more info on FEMA? I've got my mold certs, lead paint, and asbestos but cannot seem to get any work in those areas.


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## Wannabe

If you have mold certs work should come fairly easily......


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## mille63

*4 years Apprenticeship in Florida*

I had a class instructor tell me that Florida now requires mold remediators to have years of experience. Newbies have to have a state-certified mold-remediator sign off on all their work for four years, then they can themselves be state certified.


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## BlakeFLAgator

I was interested in starting home inspections but I'm not completely sure how exactly you are saying to do that Wannabe. No leads would be great but would I be doing work for the same companies we currently complete p&p for? Please help


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## cfp

Wannabe said:


> This may be more appropriate in the Off Topic but anyone can follow My path:
> 
> The writing was on the wall what the P&P was becoming back in 2009. Here is what I did.
> 
> We always did a substantial amount of structural drying on foreclosed homes SO we decided to go get our certifications from the IICRC. www.iicrc.com Once you get your certifications you are eligible to do Insurance Mitigation work. You take the classes to gain your WRT (water restoration tech) & your ASD (applied structural drying) certifications.
> 
> Once you earn your certifications you can sign up with Code Blue (www.codeblue.com), Home Advisors (www.homeadvisor.com) and Contractor Connection (Google this one). Code Blue handles claims for Am Fam and a handful of other companies, Contractor Connection handles Allstate,Usaa and others and Home Advisors (used to be Service Magic) handles private party work.
> 
> The WRT Class is 3 days long and approx $600. The ASD Class is 2 days long.
> 
> You will need to invest or rent some basic equipment. This will cost you approximately the same as a nicely equipped lawn mower BUT will generate you 50x more income than your lawn mower.
> 
> This basic equipment package generated us over $200k gross and we expanded to 51 dehumidifier and 300+ airmovers with $600k gross yearly income. Www.damageclean.com is our company.
> 
> YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!!!
> 
> AGAIN: another service YOU are asked to do in the P&P business is mold remediation. Go get your certifications and be paid what you are worth! You will need that WRT certification from the IICRC since it's a prerequisite to obtaining tour AMRT (Antimicrobial remediation tech). There are many ways to get business!!! I would tell you some secrets but I see Heartland is in Florida and we are opening a 2nd location in Fl in the next 30-60 days so....can't give all my secrets away
> 
> In the month of Apr we did over $80k in mold work on foreclosed homes and June will be more than Apr. YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!!
> 
> AGAIN: another service you are asked to perform are inspections. Go get your Home Insectors license and get paid what you WORTH!! Yes I'm a home inspector also BUT don't have much time to fish this pond. We do charge $350-400 per inspection. There are a lot of companies BEGGING for licensed inspectors and easily earn $100,000 per year without having to find a lead.
> 
> I came from an Insurance background. Since we remodel/construct/fix homes I am an advocate for homeowners with Ins Claims. Www.heartlandpublicadjusting.com (see Heartland your name made me want to give you ideas/options). There are tons of companies out there that will train anyone to learn the business. You would find out that your life and career experience is important. There is a forum member who asked my advice and got licensed and burning up the State of Ohio with work. It's gratifying to help people who got the shaft from the Ins Co!!!
> 
> When I walked from the P&P business (11-1-11) we were doing 2,000,000 yearly gross (net stunk since we paid our subs 88% of gross) minus our employees and overhead. We never looked back since we had FAITH in our abilities.. Have faith in what you can do!!! Take baby steps away from the insanity and your bank acct will grow and you will keep your sanity.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> My rambling is over


Are you able to run the business legally with just you being certified or do all of your employees have to obtain their own certs?


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## GTX63

It may vary from state to state but I believe one person on site has to be certified.


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## cfp

GTX63 said:


> It may vary from state to state but I believe one person on site has to be certified.


That's what I'm hoping. I believe I'm a very good trainer and would be able to teach my helpers what needs to get done and how. At $400 plus room board and meals to have them get their certs would be a little difficult.


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## Wannabe

Yep. Only the Supervisor needs certified. All our crew guys are certified but 1 though.


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## NYC Property preserver

*NYC Jammer*

Just want to say that I am new to this site and I am in PP going on two years now. It is really not working for me at all. The price that the big companies are paying just cant cut it. I am looking at other opportunities. Anybody could suggest where I could look for good income areas now? What about Wells Fargo and how do I contact them? :whistling2:

I also got screwed royally by a Syracuse based property preservation company that is refusing to pay me for work that they literally confirmed that I did and approved the measly pittance that were offering. To all Stay away from that company. I now have to sue to get paid. :sad:


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## Wannabe

In the contracting world it's called COB (cost of business). No excuse though.


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## melmatrix

I was wondering if nyc is the company that screwed you out of money. Is it called alliance


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## NYC Property preserver

melmatrix said:


> I was wondering if nyc is the company that screwed you out of money. Is it called alliance


Yes. That is the company. These people are so shady, lowdown and dishonest. I read about them on the internet after working for them for a few months. I decided not to do as high a volume of work for them until I saw how well they were going to pay us what is owed. In spite of the fact that they owed me thousands they were very slow in paying the first measly check. Even way after the 45 days I had to wait for that elusive first check. in about four weeks subsequent to the first check I got two more very small checks then they stopped paying completely. They then sent me a 1099 for a large amount of money which I refuted and promptly reported to the IRS. They quickly corrected it and when I asked them about the balance that they owed me they claimed that they completely paid me.

Run away from them they are despicable. I would gladly join in a class action suit against them, because I think that we have a good case against them. They are not a business, they are a racket that is preying on and hurting those of us who are really trying to make a living out here.


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## melmatrix

Yeah the owner he is a piece of **** i went to syracuse personally and got my check from the creep and they still owe me money it started as just grasscuts and they were paying me weekly honestly it was cool in the begining then they ask me to do a cleanout i did then he tried to **** me out of the debris count then he had another. One 140 cyd and tried to pay me 2400 he said i would get paid the next day so i went and did it. Had 5 guys we knocked it out in a few hrs it was full of metal so i made a few hundred there then i dont hear from him for a week so i went to the office pick my check up he pulled all my work and still owes me 1200$


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## propcleaners

NYC Property preserver said:


> Just want to say that I am new to this site and I am in PP going on two years now. It is really not working for me at all. The price that the big companies are paying just cant cut it. I am looking at other opportunities. Anybody could suggest where I could look for good income areas now? What about Wells Fargo and how do I contact them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also got screwed royally by a Syracuse based property preservation company that is refusing to pay me for work that they literally confirmed that I did and approved the measly pittance that were offering. To all Stay away from that company. I now have to sue to get paid.


We are in the same situation. The third-party company we worked through for one national did the same thing. We will be doing the same as you since they owe us $4000. That's money I can't afford to lose. I have one resource on my side, I'm a full time paralegal and work for a very established firm. I'm not going to sit by and let them keep the little bit of pay we earned. I have also figured out their system of their handing out the jobs to max their profit. They have their own crews they send in for the money making jobs. They leave just enough stuff to make it look like you will make a profit, but then they lump everything together and call it a "maid refresh" for $20. Then if one item isn't done, they send you back and keep the entire profit. They also get the contractor to write detailed bids and then use them to get the job from the national then turn around and get another sub crew to go in and do it for half of what you bid, thereby keeping 75% of the profit. They sit back and figure no one is going to catch on since the pricing sheets of all companies are confidential until they contract with you. It only takes an OCD, CYA paralegal to figure that out. What I can tell you is ALWAYS cya (cover your ass), keep really good records and even record meetings and phone calls. Plus don't delete your text messages with the so-called "office manager".


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## Preservation For A Cause

Cfp what state are you based out of? I know in ohio their is a government grant called the incumbant work force training grant. This program would basically cover the cost of training for your employee's (not subs) to get their mold certification. Their are a couple other programs out their that would help cover this cost to pm me for details


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## All Island Handy

*This really works !!!!*

I just wanna give a BIG thanks to WANNABE for his original post. we were much like the bulk of P&P contractors, stuck in the BS afraid to quit because the NATS owed us way to much $$$ and just didnt realize how brainwashed we were after years of trying to "win" a loosing battle. In the last year I got certified thrue the IICRC after completing the WRT, ASD, AND AMRT courses I started a website, and a very low budget google add campaign and within 2 months I began to see the light at the end of the tunnel, I was to the point where I was having trouble keeping up with the P&P work and the new venture yet still afraid to break away completely from the security of those weekly checks. We wound up quitting ALL p&p work this past august :biggrin: Since then we have made more $$$ than all last year combined (last year was our busiest P&P year ever) with far less stress, on our schedule, and feel way better about the work were doing. 

the P&P world is dying a slow death and unfortunately is taking the contractors and there family's down with it, I have heard so Many reports of contractors going broke due to non paying company's it make me sick !!

After reading WANNABE 'S post it inspired me to get out of P&P and do better for my family and thats exactly what I did, AND YOU CAN TOO!!!


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## carrion215

I'm hoping it's not too late to go this route, we just need different and definitely better sources of income. Thanks Wannabe for posting this info


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## sirluckey1

whats crazy is HUD use to teach you and certify you for free. I came into the business before these crummy nationals. You dealt directly with realtors or insurance agents. HUD agents would come out and tell you exactly what to do and how to do it. It was on the job training. P&P was cool when it first came out. There is little money in it now. Expert a mold and cant get paid like an expert without spending money to get taught what I already know.


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