# s/g's million dollar car ins policy



## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

Has anyone else got asked for this.. Why do they need a million dollars.. what is the reason? 

i have 4 crew trucks 2vans and 2 refresh cars so ill be paying almost an extra grand every month.. S/G said you cant have an umbrella and needs to be all incase of accidents.. what accidents.. what is my truck going to do that my genral cant pay for... :thumbsup:


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## K&L preservation (Oct 28, 2013)

ezdayman said:


> Has anyone else got asked for this.. Why do they need a million dollars.. what is the reason?
> 
> i have 4 crew trucks 2vans and 2 refresh cars so ill be paying almost an extra grand every month.. S/G said you cant have an umbrella and needs to be all incase of accidents.. what accidents.. what is my truck going to do that my genral cant pay for... :thumbsup:




drop them, spend the time in the phone book calling realtors, or rental management companies, when you see a for sale sign call the number and ask if they need a contractor, if you can market your business right you can sell snow to a Inuit..:thumbup: but on the other hand they want quality work but with that comes quality pay and more profit.. stay thirsty my friends!!:yes:


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

To cover the possible "lost/fallen" items off your debris trailer or truck and kills someone or forbid multiple persons..... Yes it does unfortunately happen


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I fail to see any scenario where SG would be exposed to any liability*



Wannabe said:


> To cover the possible "lost/fallen" items off your debris trailer or truck and kills someone or forbid multiple persons..... Yes it does unfortunately happen


from something falling off my truck. It is far more likely a way to steer vendors to one of their agents.
Legally, making that assertion is analog to me driving to the landfill with roofing debris from one of my private clients and expecting the homeowner to pay if something goes wrong. I know lawyers can try to twist things, but that's a stretch.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

We added it for one car only. It didn't cost any extra. Now we don't do any P&P work for them any longer. Also we only worked with people on sub basis, otherwise we would be broke. We didn't provide any vehicles for any crews. If you have employees, you have to cover them with WC which is another story


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> from something falling off my truck. It is far more likely a way to steer vendors to one of their agents.
> Legally, making that assertion is analog to me driving to the landfill with roofing debris from one of my private clients and expecting the homeowner to pay if something goes wrong. I know lawyers can try to twist things, but that's a stretch.


Boy are you wrong. I won't say here on a forum open to ALL eyes but..... Not only are you liable but possibly criminally too. 5 yrs in the pokey is NOT kidding around. No it was not me BUT a sub.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> Boy are you wrong. I won't say here on a forum open to ALL eyes but..... Not only are you liable but possibly criminally too. 5 yrs in the pokey is NOT kidding around. No it was not me BUT a sub.


I have said it before. If DOT would start enforcing people have proper equipment, it would help a lot of the problems we have with these companies. Fining guys pull large trailers with to small of trucks or cars. I know around here dot pulls you over hauling trash you can tell them your cleaning out your garage or barn, you will only get away with it for only so long. I know there not pulling over all the people in are area, see to many unsafe loads . seen a contractor pull into dump pulling a 16' trailer loaded as high as the cab of his truck. Was pulling it with a newer Nissan Frontier, load was pushes his truck when he tried to stop. They only had 1/2 the load tarped down. I sure this is one of the go to guys that will do a trash out for a third of what I`ll do it for. If DOT catches him he will be looking at $1500 to $2500 fine. this would help keep the low ballers out of the game!


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I did not say that I would not be liable*



Wannabe said:


> Boy are you wrong. I won't say here on a forum open to ALL eyes but..... Not only are you liable but possibly criminally too. 5 yrs in the pokey is NOT kidding around. No it was not me BUT a sub.


I said, I could not imagine a scenario where the client would be. Of course the owner/operator of the vehicle is liable. It is a stretch to say the client would be liable with all the protection afforded them in their contractor agreement.


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

Ohnojim said:


> I said, I could not imagine a scenario where the client would be. Of course the owner/operator of the vehicle is liable. It is a stretch to say the client would be liable with all the protection afforded them in their contractor agreement.


Oh yes...the client can be liable as well. If the owner doesn't have any money, they go to the next guy. Seen it happen in my previous profession. This is yet another reason homeowners are incouraged to ask about being insured AND the limits, just to cover their own asses. :thumbsup:

Edit; As far as the idea of "all the protection afforded them in their contractor agreement" it doesn't hold water as most any contract. Contracts are more of a feel good thing than an all or nothing deal.

Edit; Not to mention there isn't a clause that states the client can't be sued if you kill someone with debris falling off your trailer/truck (just an ex...) and it doesn't matter if it did. Tell that to the family of the deceased and let me know how that goes for ya.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I understand that losses that occur on the subject property*

can be sometimes under limited circumstances be claimed against the homeowner, I understand that the Agent,Bank or Broker,Investor etc. can also assume some liability. However I do not see a scenario where the main contractor would be liable for something falling off the truck of one of his subs on a public roadway. I will try to find a case that proves me wrong, your example of the property owner being responsible for those he allows on the property,or in some states even trespassers. is not at all an example of the case in point.


Note: we are not talking about transportation/cargo/heavy hauling type contracts. That is also something else.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

I PM'ed you a case.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

*5 brothers Winterization orders*

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I didn't get a PM from you.*



Wannabe said:


> I PM'ed you a case.


I would be interested to see it. I have come up with a plausible legal scenario. The judge would have to rule that the main contractor broke enough of the rules of the contractor relationship that the contractor was acting as an agent or employee. But, please re-send. 
I get a lot of spam on that E-mail and may have missed or deleted it.


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

In 2003 my contractor had Pella window fall off a trailer, it wasn't tied down. Vary windy day, wind picked the the window up in the air about 12 high, about a 80 pound full frame double glass window. The window hit a old beat up 240z on the highway at 65 miles an hour. Completely totaled the 240z. the contractor had work orders from my office with my company name on them. The contractor was force to tell the cop who he was contracting for, I never send the orginial work order out always send the contractor/employees with my remade orders with my company name on them.

I settled out of court with the lady, i was lucky is all i can say. luckily it was stopped before it made it to National at the time. Plus the fact she was vary nice about the accident. I did tell her , the car was a junker and she agreed. She did get a new car out the deal and was happy, needless to say i ended up with a totaled 240z in back yard. I did sell parts off it and got some of my monies back. It does happen and lawyers can force the issue all the way the company your contracting from regardless what policy or agreement you sign. 

I don't work for ScrewGuard but the Nationals i do work for reguire it. And i pass it on to the contractors as a must have policy. It for their protection more so than than mine.

Support the this site and click on the add once and awhile.:thumbsup:


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I didn't even see the ads.*

Keep in mind, you can be sued or settle for anything. You stepped up supported your contractor, and did the right thing. That however does not amount to liability. You know and I know who was liable. If you hire employees and have them on the books as subs, it is also a good way to stop the questions from being asked. Those waters can get a bit murky sometimes. The work orders in the "contractor's" truck were no business of the cop.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> Keep in mind, you can be sued or settle for anything. You stepped up supported your contractor, and did the right thing. That however does not amount to liability. You know and I know who was liable. If you hire employees and have them on the books as subs, it is also a good way to stop the questions from being asked. Those waters can get a bit murky sometimes. The work orders in the "contractor's" truck were no business of the cop.



The lawyers and judges are the professionals who are paid to interpret the laws. Not us.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Yeah, it's no big deal.*



thanohano44 said:


> The lawyers and judges are the professionals who are paid to interpret the laws. Not us.


I probably should have stated it differently. Let's just sat that Safeguard's exposure is extremely limited in that respect. Is there some exception out there somewhere, probably. With their "approved brokers, and their one sided policies, not to mention the glaringly obvious conflict of interest. I told them, " No thanks, I wasn't born yesterday". And go ahead, guess what the guy said to me...... No seriously, guess what he said...................


He said " Well, could you go ahead and complete the training, get a quote on our insurance, and pay for the BC. I laughed and said "Sure". Then when you don't do it, after they failed to listen, they actually send you somewhat rude E-mails.

I wonder how rude they get when they're into you for 5 figures?


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

OK Starbaby.....
OHNOJIM, it was a P.M. on this forum to you. I will tell the Short Short Version here on this forum. Many here know what happened and the hel* everyone went through.

Sub was pulling a trailer with Personals for disposal (he choose to keep many items for himself). While pulling the trailer he lost a piece of furniture never noticed. 16 yr old kid was driving and overcorrected the Parents SUV and rolled the vehicle into the ditch between the traffic lanes. Very Rural part of the country. The sub saw the accident in the rear view mirror and pulled over and dialed 911. Was the 2nd caller to report the accident. Being that traffic was pulling over to assist and he had a truck and trailer he continued on home (3 hours away). 
1 parent was killed, 2nd parent was paralyzed 
The parent that was killed was world renown in their career. 
Sub was convicted to 5 yrs prison and served every day of his 5 yrs and disappeared. 
Every Company down the line (Including the National) paid out policy limits on their liability policy. 

It can happen and it did happen. I can only say it ruined many lives and no matter how much insurance you have it is never enough. If something serious happens everyone will be sued and not much you can do about it but let your E&O policy and your CGL policy defend you. 

Troy said "let the lawyers interpret the laws"... I found the laws mean very little when emotions take over.... then its the lawyers, juries and judges that MAKE the laws.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I don't wish to pick nit, however Wannabe, you're talking about a criminal proceeding*

prefacing a civil judgement. I can't ever recall seeing a liability policy without an exclusion for criminal negligence, or criminal activity. It would be interesting to see the actual settlement,and if it stipulates no liability. However, I get your point.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

ezdayman said:


> Has anyone else got asked for this.. Why do they need a million dollars.. what is the reason?
> 
> i have 4 crew trucks 2vans and 2 refresh cars so ill be paying almost an extra grand every month.. S/G said you cant have an umbrella and needs to be all incase of accidents.. what accidents.. what is my truck going to do that my genral cant pay for... :thumbsup:



These companies have tried this with us...our insurance company emphatically stated...

If they want insurance tell them to purchase it....our insurance people will not name anyone in this industry "additionally insured" PERIOD....


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> prefacing a civil judgement. I can't ever recall seeing a liability policy without an exclusion for criminal negligence, or criminal activity. It would be interesting to see the actual settlement,and if it stipulates no liability. However, I get your point.


Actually it was an unfortunate accident.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*5 years in jail.*



Wannabe said:


> Actually it was an unfortunate accident.


Obviously the guy was charged and convicted of a crime, likely involuntary manslaughter or some sort of gross criminal negligence. It is possible to commit a crime by accident. Personally, I don't believe in crimes without proven intent, but the law says differently, in many states. But, it's like you said, the law means little when emotion gets involved. In states with unlimited punitive damages and jury awards anything can happen, I guess. Either way Safeguard can kiss my a#%. Their insurance requirements and hand picked brokers adds up to one thing. (hurray for me f#^* you) I ain't playin' that game. Actually the million dollar auto policy isn't that expensive or a big deal, I already have that, it is required for some of the gated communities I work in. Safeguard's and others policy of forcing/cutting and backcharging when you don't accept. also exposes them some liability, as it is not a legal stretch to call that policy "directing day to day activities and work flow", a clear violation of the independent Contractor definition. Perhaps that may have entered into the claim also.


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## expressreo (Jun 12, 2014)

Hold on, they want you to pay more for insurance while taking 25% of your invoice ??


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

:icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes:


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## expressreo (Jun 12, 2014)

Haha


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*It's not only that.*



expressreo said:


> Hold on, they want you to pay more for insurance while taking 25% of your invoice ??


They also are paying less to begin with, as compared to AMS. They want a bigger piece of a smaller pie.


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## expressreo (Jun 12, 2014)

I know a sub that works for them that pays more. Also is it me or does Safequard have the worse uploading process known to man ?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Not the worst, but who can say if the electric chair is worse than burning at the stake?


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> Obviously the guy was charged and convicted of a crime, likely involuntary manslaughter or some sort of gross criminal negligence. It is possible to commit a crime by accident. Personally, I don't believe in crimes without proven intent, but the law says differently, in many states. But, it's like you said, the law means little when emotion gets involved. In states with unlimited punitive damages and jury awards anything can happen, I guess. Either way Safeguard can kiss my a#%. Their insurance requirements and hand picked brokers adds up to one thing. (hurray for me f#^* you) I ain't playin' that game. Actually the million dollar auto policy isn't that expensive or a big deal, I already have that, it is required for some of the gated communities I work in. Safeguard's and others policy of forcing/cutting and backcharging when you don't accept. also exposes them some liability, as it is not a legal stretch to call that policy "directing day to day activities and work flow", a clear violation of the independent Contractor definition. Perhaps that may have entered into the claim also.


Leaving the scene of an accident. Remember he was the 2nd call to 911 and how do u turn around on a busy Interstate with a 16' trailer plus truck?


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*.Wow that's a tough one for just leaving the scene.*

I guess the judge figured there weren't quite enough lives ruined. In PA if your car was not struck or directly involved in a collision, you are not involved in the accident, even if you caused it. When I was a kid my car stalled in the middle of the road. A big Coke truck swerved to miss me and ran off an elevated roadway and flipped. No one was injured. The State police told me I was not involved in the accident. In fact in PA you are in control of your vehicle, even if something is on the road, you are in control of your vehicle, if you hit it, or propel it, it is your fault. He must have had the worlds worst lawyer.


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## Birddog (Jul 28, 2014)

I like the guy carrying more than 7 tires off the rim. You need to be a registered scrap tire hauler to do it. See how the Deq. Treats ya if they stop you.


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