# Hud Guidlines & Work



## H & S Services LLC (Dec 17, 2012)

Hello everyone. I was wondering where I could fine most of the hud guidlines. Also work has been really clow for me right now. Is it just the holidays or am I alone. I am in Tn. And on more thing, What other companies besides 5 bros and MCS Contract out preservation work. I have been in this fild around a year and I would like to grow " The right way " So hopefully I can be sucessful in this field.

Thanks guys


----------



## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

H & S Services LLC said:


> . . .I was wondering where I could fine most of the hud guidlines. Also work has been really clow for me right now.


I will be watching this thread. I too would like to fine HUD :whistling2:


----------



## ADP LLC (May 15, 2012)

A little "clow" with the spelling too huh?


----------



## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=DOC_14634.pdf


----------



## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

TN you say???? where abouts???


----------



## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

H & S Services LLC said:


> Hello everyone. I was wondering where I could fine most of the hud guidlines. Also work has been really clow for me right now. Is it just the holidays or am I alone. I am in Tn. And on more thing, What other companies besides 5 bros and MCS Contract out preservation work. I have been in this fild around a year and I would like to grow " The right way " So hopefully I can be sucessful in this field.
> 
> Thanks guys


What fild is this you speak of?


----------



## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

*Howdy from Memphis.*

Not slow over here. Our company just recently started doing remodel to rents. Since they previously only employed winterizers and lock changers, I'm slammed. Not cool with the way they are doing business though. I recently bid a job at 8000 for interior paint and carpet change (2000sqft) which is already less than what I know the work is worth (lots of railing ,crown, chair, vaulted ceiling, smoke damage through out). the guy comes back with if you can go 6 we got it. I say tell em 7 and I'll start tomorrow. A week later he calls back we got it im sending it over to you now. I assume 7.(We had a long conversation about why I couldn't take 6) We get the W.O. and we have initial sales clean (bid at $55!!! their pricing guide says $75) 4cyd debris (more like 7) and the instructions say to use flat satin and semi paint, paint all ceilings and stainblock 200 ft of water damage (guess the person who initially bid this job before me cant tell the difference between smoke and water ) and must use 25oz FHA carpet with new 6lb pad. But wait here's more-So not only did they add some extra task I didn't agree to... After starting on the work, for two days I ask for a net to contractor breakdown. When I finally get it $5600!! The carpet was 3300 and they alotted 3000!! WTF. Welcome to property pres. I guess.:glare: Anyway is there anything I can do about this. Or is it just the nature of the work. Also the garage is all kinds of busted up and the texture is falling off the ceiling. My WO says "paint interior" the garage isn't interior right:icon_wink:


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> Anyway is there anything I can do about this. Or is it just the nature of the work.


You can say no you are not doing it. Unless I purposefully bid it high to begin with knowing that they were going to cut it, I wouldn't take the cut from $8k to $5600. 

They probably took your original $8k bid, tacked $2k on for them, and are now trying to come talk you back down to raise their margin.

Slightly confused, why did you start on the work before you had any sort of price?

RULE #1 in this industry(or any) - Don't do any work without a price in writing.


----------



## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

*To clarify....*

I assumed.... We had a conversation about what I needed and what I was going to do. I assumed this counted as an agreement.


----------



## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

I guess I just feel like in any other situation that wouldn't be acceptable. Think if you took your car to the shop to get some new tires and when you went to pick it up the mechanic was like " I decided you needed 
a new starter and a water pump so I just put them on you owe me an extra $300"


----------



## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> I assumed


 
You've been in the industry how long????


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

They butchered your bid down, then came back with a verbal counter and later told you it was approved. You started work without anything in writing and knocked it out in 2 day and make 2k. What margin did you figure on carpet and paint to being with?


----------



## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> You can say no you are not doing it. Unless I purposefully bid it high to begin with knowing that they were going to cut it, I wouldn't take the cut from $8k to $5600.
> 
> They probably took your original $8k bid, tacked $2k on for them, and are now trying to come talk you back down to raise their margin.
> 
> ...


If it is not in writing it is a rumor. I do not start without the WO and my customers know the clock does not start until I recieve the WO or I will pass on the job.


----------



## H & S Services LLC (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks my my man.


----------



## H & S Services LLC (Dec 17, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> TN you say???? where abouts???


 
I am in arlington tn.

U


----------



## H & S Services LLC (Dec 17, 2012)

Trust me I know. The guys I work with value you until they get enough people to get thee most out of each crew. Then they drain us for the least amount possible. If you are a sub, you may want to get away from that A.S.A.P. These guys will suck the life out of you and make you feel like its your fault. If you are not exclusive you will continue to see this. A good quote a guy told me years ago was " IF ITS NOT ON SIGN AND ON PAPER IT WAS NEVER SPOKE OF OR SAID " I have learned to live by that. Would love to have your contact info. Maybe we could help each other!!!

Thanks


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> I guess I just feel like in any other situation that wouldn't be acceptable. Think if you took your car to the shop to get some new tires and when you went to pick it up the mechanic was like " I decided you needed
> a new starter and a water pump so I just put them on you owe me an extra $300"


No, this would be like your mechanic telling you on the phone that you need a new starter and water pump(getting WO with more stuff on it than agreed on), and you say OK without asking the price(starting the job), then being upset when your bill is $300 higher(getting paid less than you think is fair for addl reqs).


----------



## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Assume===== ASS U ME ?


----------



## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

*Thanks for the responses.*

Cleanup- I've been doing this for 2 months I have a turnkey service for apartments and it seemed like an easy transition. I've never had anyone totally disregard a conversation about pricing. Clearly the money I didn't make bought me a valuable learning experience.


----------



## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

*Margin.....*

GTX- I originally was going to have a guy do the carpet for 2500 but he went awol. I had to use a friends carpet guy who hopefully I can build a relationship with and get a little better pricing. I Considered trying to find a carpet wholesaler so I could get the materials for cheaper, and I can get a house worth of paint for $300 or so(100 10 gal flat, 125 for 7 gal semi and 75 for 7 gal ceiling white. So I should have made a little more. Thats part of the reason I got into painting because my labor is the majority of the cost. I have no clue what my operating cost are going to be on this pres deal yet. planning on doing that in January after I have a little more data. 
I didn't figure my profit on margin. I bid high (high for prop pres I really just bid what the market here will bear on a residential home that size in that part of town). I am growing as a business and haven't really put pen to paper on what my total operating cost are. Honestly I calculate in my head this will cost X I'm making Y and I just decide if its worth it based on how long the job will take.( I really didn't have enough hard data only a guesstimate since I only started operating (the turnkey service)in July) whats the formula to figure margin on this stuff (% yearly overhead+materials+labor+ 30% profit margin?) I feel like i'd be short changing myself with that formula. When I paint houses sometimes the profit margin is like 300-500% $500-1000 for materials and labor $3000 gross $2500-$2000 net profit. <--- this is why I chose painting, I didn't have much starting capital. You will notice I didn't deduct overhead because I haven't figured what the total on a subscription to QB, office IT(ms office/estimating software/electronics) insurance, gas/maintenance, and I'm really not sure yet what other expenses ill have in a year. Soooo.... To sum up I'm still learning the ropes on how to operate on my own I've always worked for someone else and the opportunity came shortly after my son was born to give it a shot... So I did.


----------



## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

AcutAbove,

I see several issues here.

1) Smoke damage. I have had the "pleasure", as a restoration contractor of doing many smoke/fire damage jobs and I honestly cannot remember ANY home being less than $12-$15.00 per S.F. Understand this is not only "painting" but it is an odor control job 1st and foremost.

2) You mentioned "water damage" but said it was smoke damage? You need to call the fire dept and find out if they "put some water on it". If so then you need to remove all the water damaged area since it WILL develop mold.

3) If this was a "smaller fire" such as a kitchen fire you need to know (Hygentist/Qualified Inspector) what type of fire. ie protein, synthetic etc etc since all is treated differently.

4) Gotta get the "smoke behind those walls". The painting/encapsulating is fine for appearances BUT who is responsible when the weather warms up and the soot smell comes back? Guarantee it will be you. 

5) Carpets are a big bread winner. Bid on the estimating software and stick to it. Be sure to bid the carpet seperate from the carpet pad.

6) If you are not familiar with the restoration business...on your next water/smoke/mold job have a qualified contractor provide you the estimates and PAY HIM/HER for the estimate. I can safely say you lost 50-80% of what you should have bid AND still retained 100% of the same liability. 

7) Remember....most of the Preservation Techs you talk to on the phone at the Service Companies are idiots BUT there ARE divisions that have some very BRIGHT people....Example is the Insurance Claim/Subrogation Dept...They will hire adjusters to go to YOUR property and do a proper adjustment and collect the amount available from the Insurance Company. It is YOUR job to GET as much of that $$ as possible since YOU are the Contractor.

8) Be sure to have your Pollution Liability Policy in force....covers those mold issues that may come or those lead issues that may come OR those asbestos issues you run into. 

Good luck, keep your chin up. Just don't go broke with your learning curve.


----------



## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> I assumed.... We had a conversation about what I needed and what I was going to do. I assumed this counted as an agreement.


ALWAYS IN WRITING---DO NOTHING VIA VERBAL AGREEMENT...Bizness 101


----------



## ACutAbove (Dec 8, 2012)

*Thanks*

Wannabe, Thanks man I really appreciate the input. That type of insight is the reason I joined this forum. I'm not sure what the source of the smoke was but just based on my past experiences It looked more like cigarette smoke (yellowish brown and in some places it was "running") in most of the house and some darker smoke in the living room in the general area of the fire place. I think maybe the flue might not be completely clear or these people didn't really know how to use a fire place. I could be wrong on that so your advice will definitely be put to good use the next time I see something like this. When you say stick to the estimating software, I use Craftsman costbooks currently but I only have a free trial until i see if its what I need.(they seem to line up with what I know you can get in this region on somethings but on others they are real high). I'll try and post what they said for the carpet install seems like I remember them missing the mark on it. what is the going rate(in your area and where is your area) seems like >15< pyd is what I kept hearing from my subs. Can I get more than that from fha allowables? What estimating software do you use?


----------



## BigP (Dec 27, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> Cleanup- I've been doing this for 2 months I have a turnkey service for apartments and it seemed like an easy transition. I've never had anyone totally disregard a conversation about pricing. Clearly the money I didn't make bought me a valuable learning experience.



And hopefully a valuable lesson learned and applied to future decisions, lest you be forced to repeat it and pay additional "Dummy Tax". 

I would bet most of us have been there, done that, and got the t-shirt at one time or another in one form or another. 

Just don't insist on collecting the t-shirts. Charge what you are worth and stick to your guns. 

There is more in this industry than cut-rate "Nationals", but man get everything in written contract. Pain in the behind it is, but will save you in the long run.


----------



## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

ACutAbove said:


> Wannabe, Thanks man I really appreciate the input. That type of insight is the reason I joined this forum. I'm not sure what the source of the smoke was but just based on my past experiences It looked more like cigarette smoke (yellowish brown and in some places it was "running") in most of the house and some darker smoke in the living room in the general area of the fire place. I think maybe the flue might not be completely clear or these people didn't really know how to use a fire place. I could be wrong on that so your advice will definitely be put to good use the next time I see something like this. When you say stick to the estimating software, I use Craftsman costbooks currently but I only have a free trial until i see if its what I need.(they seem to line up with what I know you can get in this region on somethings but on others they are real high). I'll try and post what they said for the carpet install seems like I remember them missing the mark on it. what is the going rate(in your area and where is your area) seems like >15< pyd is what I kept hearing from my subs. Can I get more than that from fha allowables? What estimating software do you use?


We use Xactimate but Simsol seems a good 1 also. Standard Grade carpet we get $27.66/yd and $5.55/yd for pad. This is the standard grade. Normally we bid everything at "High Grade" since it is a little better carpet and "shows better".


----------

