# What is wrong in this industry?



## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Perhaps this thread should be in the "off topic" ? Looking back and finding paystubs from 30 years ago brought back some nostalgia and low feelings.

Here goes:

I have been very fortunate to own several different businesses and worked at some good jobs and look at the pay that was earned and compare to today.

*1981*: Worked at a warehouse job part-time while in college. PT wage was $13.42/hour. Today that same warehouse, for the #5 largest Grocery store chain, is paying $10.25/hour for FULL-time. A wage decrease of nearly 25%. Costs to own home/auto/food/insurance has all increased nearly 100%.

*1983:* Owned an insurance brokerage office. In 1983 till the mid 90's we would get 20% commission on an auto or a homeowners policy on the 1st years premium. By 2005 the commissions had dropped to 5% on auto policies and 3-5% on a homeowners policy. An earnings decrease of nearly 75% less while costs continued to escalate. Sold in Nov 2011 due to this very reason. Only way to recoup this loss of commissions was to "sell more" ie....volume.

*1996: *Started doing P&P work (totally by accident) while doing insurance inspections on Force Placed Insurance Policies and writing Homeowners policies for different banks in an attempt to earn more "volume" due to the commissions had started sliding downhill. By 1998 I found myself doing the full scope of Preservation work and really enjoyed the pay and the industry.

First Preston paid $1500 flat fee on up to 25cyds debris (first company with a flat fee that I know of). Lawn service $250 up to 10". $150 maid service. Hazards separate bid.

Cyprexx was $40cyd + lawn + maid service + any hazards. They topped out at $1500 +/- then we had to bid to complete.

Safeguard was $40cyd + lawn/maid service + hazards. No limit.

MCS was $50cyd + Lawn/maid service + hazards. No limit.

These prices were the day's when you actually made a profit! We had offices in 4 States (MN, IA, SC & NE) and provided exceptional service. The crews could take 2 vacations a year--well deserved vacations for the 60 hr weeks they would put in. Yearly Christmas party for each State that we could actually afford. 

*2011:* Formed an Adjusting business. So far so good and having a great time fighting the insurance companies on behalf of the homeowner/businessowner.

The reason for this post is twofold: I keep hearing and hopefully contributing to this forum and consider each and everyone of you a "internet" friend. Does it seem though that everyone in the Preservation field is a dinosaur? The end is here but nobody knows what else to do? Pricing is continuing the downward spiral.. I know its got to hit bottom at some point but till then.... how much valuable time are you wasting in the wait game to see what becomes of the industry? 

I wish I had the answers... I think I know what has happened.. Corporate Greed and Government fraud. The suits know that this industry is going to change (limited profit) so why not plunder from the contractor NOW to pocket as much profit as possible before they exit the industry. 

Where I am located we are rich in history from the coal mining days... John L Lewis, the founder of the union (United Coal Miners) that fought the Coal Mining Companies, was born and raised just 8 miles from where I type. He was fed up with the injustice of the worker.... Not saying there needs to be a union but something needs to be done! Maybe the Guild might help..... Its to be seen but they will only be able to do so much without some BITE and getting without that bite will only leave them a bark. I sincerely hope, for everyone in the Preservation Field to contribute to any organization that may be able to help straighten this out.... if you want to continue anyway. 

Rant over... :innocent:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

There are a couple of groups in this business. They get the emails on Monday from their National explaining the latest price adjustments, the "new" allowables, the required training dates, and the additional work added to the initials. The first group logs onto Preservation Talk and starts a "What do I do?" thread. The second group, well you know who you are too. You can let the man make decisions for your company or you can make them yourself. Don't wait around for the latest word on the street.

ps. I was unloading trucks for UPS as Christmas help in 1981 at $11.50 per hour. The ones they kept at the end of the year went up to $18.00 per hour. How's that working out now?


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Here is something just as disturbing....

http://pro.stansberryresearch.com/1304PWAUP2YR/PPSIP579/


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> Here is something just as disturbing....
> 
> http://pro.stansberryresearch.com/1304PWAUP2YR/PPSIP579/


I got bored waiting for the punch line and quit watching. Anyone got the Cliff's notes version?


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## HollandPPC (Sep 22, 2012)

I wonder what group I fall into. Unfortunatly the "what do I do" group often just wants a quick answer when very often the answer can be found fairly easy within the forum. There is a treasure trove of info on this board for those that really use it.


GTX63 said:


> There are a couple of groups in this business. They get the emails on Monday from their National explaining the latest price adjustments, the "new" allowables, the required training dates, and the additional work added to the initials. The first group logs onto Preservation Talk and starts a "What do I do?" thread. The second group, well you know who you are too. You can let the man make decisions for your company or you can make them yourself. Don't wait around for the latest word on the street.
> 
> ps. I was unloading trucks for UPS as Christmas help in 1981 at $11.50 per hour. The ones they kept at the end of the year went up to $18.00 per hour. How's that working out now?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

My thoughts on this industry are pretty simple.

I like the work and love not being in an office all of the time.

If I could just do the work it wouldn't be work. It's all of the other garbage that comes along with it that makes it a job.

The prices paid by the gov aren't unreasonable. The prices paid by the Nationals are insane. We have to get direct, and cut out all of the processing and office work or we have to be compensated for that work. That is the answer, there is enough money for a guy in a truck. There is not enough money to pay a guy in a truck, an office person, building, overhead, salaries, insurance, tools, and equipment.

We are all trying to stretch a laborers wage to cover a corporation. The only person that can live off of a workers wage is a worker.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> My thoughts on this industry are pretty simple.
> 
> I like the work and love not being in an office all of the time.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed. So how do we go direct?


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## browneyedgirl (May 17, 2013)

100% correct I received a check today from NFS close to 400.00 short no explanation and it will be some excuse it always is too benefit them I spend longer hours trying to get money that is owed to us than it takes to complete the work order:furious: There accounting department frustrates me


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

browneyedgirl said:


> 100% correct I received a check today from NFS close to 400.00 short no explanation and it will be some excuse it always is too benefit them I spend longer hours trying to get money that is owed to us than it takes to complete the work order:furious: There accounting department frustrates me


My pay last week from NFS's biggest National was 40.00? Not sure how that is even possible. 

You will never make a good living working for NFS. You might be able to pay your bills and even make a little profit but you have to go direct to the client.


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## browneyedgirl (May 17, 2013)

Craigslist Hack said:


> My pay last week from NFS's biggest National was 40.00? Not sure how that is even possible.
> 
> You will never make a good living working for NFS. You might be able to pay your bills and even make a little profit but you have to go direct to the client.


 Thanks but I already figured that out a long time ago just trying to get them to finish paying out what is owed So I can wash my hands of them


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

browneyedgirl said:


> Thanks but I already figured that out a long time ago just trying to get them to finish paying out what is owed So I can wash my hands of them


They are my biggest competition in Kentucky and we constantly deal with their incompetence. I am not sure if it is them or the people they hire? Probably just the system in general? 

Just today I was doing a bid in Henederson, KY and found a barn that was filled with propane tanks, tires, paint, and other hazards. It looks as if someone has been dumping there for a while.


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## browneyedgirl (May 17, 2013)

Craigslist Hack said:


> They are my biggest competition in Kentucky and we constantly deal with their incompetence. I am not sure if it is them or the people they hire? Probably just the system in general?
> 
> Just today I was doing a bid in Henederson, KY and found a barn that was filled with propane tanks, tires, paint, and other hazards. It looks as if someone has been dumping there for a while.


 Well I can assure you we are NOT incompetent we do a great job never been to Henderson Ky We stopped doing work for them for loss of money do to negligence on there part and still trying to retrieve the money that is owed to us We had no issues with doing the work and doing it correctly it was how they invoiced to how they paid out did not add up at all


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> They are my biggest competition in Kentucky and we constantly deal with their incompetence. I am not sure if it is them or the people they hire? Probably just the system in general?
> 
> Just today I was doing a bid in Henederson, KY and found a barn that was filled with propane tanks, tires, paint, and other hazards. It looks as if someone has been dumping there for a while.


you were a ways from Louisville! I wasn`t too far from you today was in Madisonville ,KY


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

browneyedgirl said:


> Well I can assure you we are NOT incompetent we do a great job never been to Henderson Ky We stopped doing work for them for loss of money do to negligence on there part and still trying to retrieve the money that is owed to us We had no issues with doing the work and doing it correctly it was how they invoiced to how they paid out did not add up at all



Sorry I didn't mean to imply that your company or people were incompetent. I don't even know if it is NFS's fault. It seems like an impossible dream to hire as many people as they do and never meet them and not have some issues. I am not saying they are a bad company. I am saying it is a bad system that lends itelf to contractor error and outright cheating due to lack of accountability.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> you were a ways from Louisville! I wasn`t too far from you today was in Madisonville ,KY



I was in providence today and the brothers were calling with some properties in Madisonville. I told them no and they were not pleased. They also called looking for more and more questions to be answered on one and I told them to reassign it. They constantly threaten to reassign work and I say go ahead. Please do.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

They really must be burning thru their contractor lists. They literally went line by line, city by city to see how many of those plums we would take. 
"No, no...no...no....where is that one at?...no... no...no."


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## MNanny (May 23, 2013)

I wonder if many of their vendors failed or refused to do their mandatory background check. The day after it was "due or be removed from our vendor list" I started getting 4 - 5 calls a day from different people in their office doing the same thing. Lists of jobs they need done all over the state. Trip charges actually offered. Seems inspections were hardest hit.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I was in providence today and the brothers were calling with some properties in Madisonville. I told them no and they were not pleased. They also called looking for more and more questions to be answered on one and I told them to reassign it. They constantly threaten to reassign work and I say go ahead. Please do.


Yes they were burning my phone up today too! But I just did my normal I didn`t answer it! I only answer emails and make calls when it suits me! I know I missing out some new work,but if I answer my phone every time it rang I would be able to get anything done!


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

MNanny said:


> I wonder if many of their vendors failed or refused to do their mandatory background check. The day after it was "due or be removed from our vendor list" I started getting 4 - 5 calls a day from different people in their office doing the same thing. Lists of jobs they need done all over the state. Trip charges actually offered. Seems inspections were hardest hit.


Just reminded me! i still haven`t done that yet! there still sending me work!


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> Just reminded me! i still haven`t done that yet! there still sending me work!


I have never been so tempted to ignore phone calls. They are driving me crazy and they threaten to reassign if they don't hear what they want to. I say reassign them all. I am discussing putting our company on hold for a while. There is just easier work out there. I can't stand all the questions.

They seem to send me a lot of conveyance properties and they require so many bids. I have yet to visit a property that is even close to conveyance condition.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I have never been so tempted to ignore phone calls. They are driving me crazy and they threaten to reassign if they don't hear what they want to. I say reassign them all. I am discussing putting our company on hold for a while. There is just easier work out there. I can't stand all the questions.
> 
> They seem to send me a lot of conveyance properties and they require so many bids. I have yet to visit a property that is even close to conveyance condition.


tell them to talk too the hand!

were is this easier work at? I have only been seeing cheaper work lately!


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> tell them to talk too the hand!
> 
> were is this easier work at? I have only been seeing cheaper work lately!


They do pay decent but the requirements are insane. If I were to take them serious I would have to hire an office person dedicated soley to their ridiculousness. 

There are plenty of good P&P companies. I think REO is over, and post conveyance work is a waste of time. It would be good for cash flow maybe but not profit.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> They do pay decent but the requirements are insane. If I were to take them serious I would have to hire an office person dedicated soley to their ridiculousness.
> 
> There are plenty of good P&P companies. I think REO is over, and post conveyance work is a waste of time. It would be good for cash flow maybe but not profit.


been one of my problems here lately! seem to be just spinning my wheels. will get some checks in then spend it doing next big cleanout! few years ago I alway s had extra money set back!

I think it would be almost impossible to get started into this line of work today!


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