# PP Pros, the mods need some input here.



## rselectric1 (Apr 12, 2012)

In trying to keep CT clean from blatant advertisers, we get lots of one time posters starting threads such as this one:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f57/subcontractors-needed-106701/

This exact issue has been up for discussion in the staff section on and off for quite awhile-especially since PP has it's own section now, but we need some input from you.

If these types of posts help you make connections...and money, we are all for it. However, since the are no PP guys as mods, we'd like a bit of input.

Half the time we just trash them, depending on which mods are on duty and active, but others we leave.

Thoughts from the PP pros?

Thanks!


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

I personally wouldn't mind some groundrules for companies advertising for help. Mainly those 1x posters that are trolling for help (ers). P&P right now is like walking through muddy waters....nothing is clear and this forum is great to share experiences both good and bad. 

My recommendations: 

1) If they are posters with less than +/- 30 postings then they must disclose their pay schedule or discount rate. If not then pay for an ad. 

2) Payment terms

Thats all from the cheering section


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

FremontREO said:


> I personally wouldn't mind some groundrules for companies advertising for help. Mainly those 1x posters that are trolling for help (ers). P&P right now is like walking through muddy waters....nothing is clear and this forum is great to share experiences both good and bad.
> 
> My recommendations:
> 
> ...


I would change that a bit to say they MUST disclose their pay schedule, discount if they have one and their Full Company Name, Address, Contact # and Point of Contact.

This info is always mysteriously left out. 

If they choose not to do this then they should have to pay and should still have to provide the Full Company Name, Address, Contact # and Point of Contact.

As I said in another post, hard working people rely on input from this forum to make potentially life changing decisions and their is always another hack that wants to try to take advantage of those that are unsuspecting.

This tool (This Forum) is used by many in varying degrees. 

That's why you see some of us more seasoned folk try to call out the B.S.'rs and throw up the Red Flags (Would be great to have one of those in the smiley icon section.) when we see something that just doesn't sound right.

Hope this helps.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

FremontREO said:


> I personally wouldn't mind some groundrules for companies advertising for help. Mainly those 1x posters that are trolling for help (ers). P&P right now is like walking through muddy waters....nothing is clear and this forum is great to share experiences both good and bad.
> 
> My recommendations:
> 
> ...


I agree 100% Fremont. There is too many scam companies looking for folks down on their luck and want to pay them nothing once signed up. Make them post their price matrix. To Rselectric although pricing as a general rule is frowned upon here, P&P work is different. Pricing for most things are written in stone and we cannot change them, therefore if a given company has to list their prices we know how much of a cut their keeping and whether or not its worth it for us. Otherwise we go through their application process and all the bull that goes with it before we find out what the prices are and in most instances we find that it wasn't worth it.


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## APlusPPGroup (Apr 14, 2012)

What I would like to see is the "Help Wanted" section in the Property Preservation area, when it relates to property preservation, instead of the location it's in now.

There are times when I have a need to fill orders immediately and would like to have my posts seen.

In the past, when I've posted for help needed in the PP section, the posts were moved. So I stopped posting for help and there are times when I really need to get my open orders covered when vendors they were issued to flake on me.

Linda


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> In trying to keep CT clean from blatant advertisers, we get lots of one time posters starting threads such as this one:
> 
> http://www.contractortalk.com/f57/subcontractors-needed-106701/
> 
> ...


rselectric1,


That post,



"We are a property preservation company which services bank owned/Large Asset Managers foreclosed properties. We are in need of Independent Contractors and their crews who have experience with the Property Preservation and REO industry and their requirements. 

You must be able to provide the following services/skills: 
Board-ups of doors, windows, etc 
Debris Removal/ Trash Outs 
Home cleaning 
Initial and re-occurring: Lawn Maintenance/Grass cutting/Snow removal 
Lock Changing 
Lock outs/Evictions 
Winterizations- domestic, baseboard, well systems 
Required Items: 
Digital camera to upload photos of all work completed. 
Computer knowledge so you can upload your information to us: Bids, invoices, etc 
$1M General Liability insurance minimum, 
Ability to pass a criminal background check 

Must have own non subcontracted crew, equipment and vehicles. This is a 1099 Position.

We have a need for contractors in:
Ohio – Cleveland, Akron, Cincinnati, Columbus

Please contact me direct @ 909-204-6601"




is a perfect example of what we are talking about.

Few posts, No company name, No contact name, No address, they do have a contact number, no email address, no pricing matrix or discount listed.

The overwhelming majority of the things that are required to be done by potential subs are fixed fee things, thus their pricing matrix should be posted.

These companies want potential subs to go thru ALL the paperwork, insurance requirements, etc... before ever letting them know what they would be making for the posted services. There's a reason for it and this is what you guys are hopefully going to address.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

RSelectric I agree with what DreamWeaver has been saying. 
Make em post up or shut up.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

DreamWeaver said:


> These companies want potential subs to go thru ALL the paperwork, insurance requirements, etc... before ever letting them know what they would be making for the posted services. There's a reason for it and this is what you guys are hopefully going to address.








My feeling is they do this in an attempt to gain access to more company's "additional insured" endorsement and there by enable them to commit more fraudulent claims against the contractors they've already banged over and over and over.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

a1propertyclean said:


> What I would like to see is the "Help Wanted" section in the Property Preservation area, when it relates to property preservation, instead of the location it's in now.
> 
> There are times when I have a need to fill orders immediately and would like to have my posts seen.
> 
> ...


I'm with Linda. Create a help wanted section and then make it a requirement to post their prices, process and requirements so that the contractors can make a decision before applying for the work. Perhaps add a rating section for those companies looking to advertise work where other contractors can help others out. And give the companies a chance to respond to disputes and bad reviews. So that we hear both sides of the story. 

I really enjoy the CT forum. I have learned so much from the shared good and bad experiences of the other contractors. The wealth of knowledge shared here is priceless!! Happy Halloween everyone!!


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

Good Morning,

I am, by far, a junior member with minimal experience with this forum. I, like many, have found this forum very useful for both the wisdom that is provided by more experienced users and for business options provided by various users.

This is a list of items that I can think off that may help the Property Preservation sub-forum (this list is by no means my own thoughts but what I have gleaned from others posting in this thread):


Elevate a willing poster in the Property Preservation sub-forum to Moderator status. This can be accomplished by a vote or by declaration by current Moderators. This Moderator for the Property Preservation sub-Forum would be responsible for individuals that create 'help wanted' threads.
Create a sub-forum for "help wanted" that would be moderated by the Property Preservation Moderator.
Create a guide for individuals looking for help where they have to post details so that contractors can make better decisions about where to work with these companies or not.

However, there are some issues that I see right away with these suggestions.

1. Whoever is declared or voted in as a Moderator for the Property Preservation sub-Forum would need to be someone who has a good deal of experience in this field. Also, they would need to be someone who has time to actually Moderate the sub-Forum on a semi-regular status. I know that some people are fairly busy and others are on a cyclic pattern of busy/slow. Therefore, who ever takes the position would need to be able to consistently provide (for lack of a better word) service to the forum. This necessity would be, in my eyes, difficult for one individual to take. I can think of a few people I would like to have the Moderator position for the Property Preservation sub-Forum but I do not know if they would be able to moderate at the level I think this sub-Forum would require.

Which leads to the idea that there should be multiple individuals to Moderate the Property Preservation sub-Forum. The problem with this is that I do not believe that having multiple individuals is the most efficient way to go about moderating this sub-Forum. I think of Roman Co-Counsels and the problems dual or multi leadership. I also do not know what this forum's policy on making individuals Moderators or if the current board owner(s) want to elevate someone to be a Moderator of a sub-Forum.

2. Creating a sub-forum for a sub-Forum seems a little, well, ridiculous. I would think that the owner(s) of the board wish to keep the organization tight and logical. I think if Property Preservation received it's own Moderator and it's own sub-sub-Forum would create a wish or need for other groups on the board to demand a sub-Forum for their specialties. As much as I would appreciate this sub-sub-Forum, I also cannot say with any clarity that the sub-sub-Forum would even be used. Therefore I think that this "help wanted" sub-sub-Forum would not be utilized in a fashion that we would like. I think that this "help wanted" forum would turn into a ghost town or, at best, contain a few posts from other contractors to contractors on this board for help with specific jobs. This may be of use to some of the contractors on this board but I do not see it's value to the board as a whole.

3. Creating a guideline that we all would like (like the one posted by Dreamweaver) would, in my estimation, not ever be filled out by prospective companies. I can see this for two reasons: 1) firstly because the current trend is for a national company to contract with a national company to contract with a regional company to contract with a contractor which would create very low payouts for specific work that would, quite honestly, be blasted by a majority of the board (myself included) and 2) secondly, pricing information for companies is considered confidential information and I do not believe that any company would willingly post their information on this board when they can use Craigslist.

These are just some ideas/concerns of mine that I have thought about this morning as I have read other users posts. But to be just clear (because sometimes I am not):

I like the idea of a sub-sub-Forum called "Help Wanted" in the Property Preservation sub-Forum.
I like the idea of one of the regular and experienced posters on this sub-Forum becoming a Moderator.
I like the idea of a guideline for posting for work by companies to be included in any post by companies looking for contractors/help on a specific job.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> I am, by far, a junior member with minimal experience with this forum. I, like many, have found this forum very useful for both the wisdom that is provided by more experienced users and for business options provided by various users.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's a mouthfull. Sub forum good. Pricing info is not confidential when its listed everywhere for standards. Most companies that don't tell are hoping you don't know.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

> I can think of a few people I would like to have the Moderator position for the Property Preservation sub-Forum but I do not know if they would be able to moderate at the level I think this sub-Forum would require.





Having done extensive moderating on more than one forum the last few years I don't think there is going to be the massive amount of time required that you are thinking.
I am sure that the current mods could handle the few requests that pop up for advertising or if they so choose appoint another special area mod that can help out as the need arises.

Unless I'm mistaken we don't have a lot of companies posting looking for help.
But I've been mistaken before on a rare occasion.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

Im a very experienced preservation company lookin for work in louisville, ky can perform all reo work and preservation work.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

STRIPEITRITE said:


> Im a very experienced preservation company lookin for work in louisville, ky can perform all reo work and preservation work.


Explain "very".


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Where did I miss that this was THE advertising thread?


Folks that are unable to post in the appropriate place instantly make my spammer BS radar go off.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Where did I miss that this was THE advertising thread?
> 
> Folks that are unable to post in the appropriate place instantly make my spammer BS radar go off.


Nebraska does that to people. Lol


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Nebraska does that to people. Lol






lol


Imagine this............. I get over here and no access.
No lock box any where.

And no one in the office at the service company.
No directions on the w/o for what to do now.
Looks like some body is paying me for a dead trip.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

One of the natives drove by just now at about 1/2 mph eye ball banging me like crazy.

I'm shocked that they didn't stop. That happens a lot in these 1/2 horse towns.
This one is so small it doesn't even rate as a one horse town.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

BPWY said:


> One of the natives drove by just now at about 1/2 mph eye ball banging me like crazy.
> 
> I'm shocked that they didn't stop. That happens a lot in these 1/2 horse towns.
> This one is so small it doesn't even rate as a one horse town.


Hope you're packing heat.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Its NE. VERY anti heat packing.

Instant go to jail do not pass go do not collect $200 for not having all the proper procedures.
And I'm from out of state. 1000% screwed from ever getting the OK to pack over here.

Lucky for me this aint down town twin cities or hoodville Phoenix.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Nebraska does that to people. Lol






I survived. :clap:


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2011)

Folks, as attractive as a prescribed format/content for Help Wanted posts might be, that ain't gonna happen. It's already an onerous task for mods to chase after Service Providers, Vendors and Manufacturers getting them to enroll in a group so they're properly identified. The question is a simple go/no go. :thumbsup:


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## rselectric1 (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow! Great responses. Let me tell you what I have gleaned from them and how I feel the other mods as well as the administrator may react to these ideas.

Remember that I am only *one* of a dozen or more ACTIVE moderators who are free to make their own decisions on a case by case basis on the hundreds of daily posts. I will direct a thread in the staff section to this thread so further discussion can occur "behind the scenes" to arrive at a general idea where this might head.

My question was pretty simple since most mods don't know the PP business like you do. Are these spammers for the most part? or do they HELP you as regular posters on CT? The obvious question is have ANY of you ever actually contacted any of these posters to investigate, and more importantly have you made money or made valuable contacts from them. If so, most of us mods may not be so quick to trash these posts.

The current policies and rules are pretty time tested here and tend to work well. Some of the suggestions would be ideal, but remember that the moderators are volunteers and serve here on a volunteer basis, and this site will never end up as a "craigs list" type of forum. We've got our hands full with overseas spammers as well as reported posts and fights that we make every attempt to hide from view and settle between the combatants via private messages.

I will agree that PP is HOT right now, hence the dedicated section which I trust you are all enjoying now. Several moderators were instrumental in getting PP it's own section, but it took quite awhile to "get er done".

OK, here are my thoughts with some of the suggestions.

The purpose of CT is not to advertise, but to share experiences and thoughts as needed with like minded contractors, as well as get a bunch of similar eyes on any issues or problems so we can make informed decisions with our projects. (Believe me, I have made some VERY good, and lucrative contacts thanks to this forum-but those relationships take time) I understand now completely that PP has it's nuances and pricing is expected, but it completely violates the rules as they stand. I get it!:laughing:
*PP Mod.* If the PP section continues to grow at the rate it has since it was added less than a year ago, of course a new moderator who could keep an eye on particularly the PP section would be great. There are two or three in particular (obvious ones in this section) that would be perfect and I will recommend them when the time is right and so will the other mods. However I don't see the PP section being ignored by mods at all at this point.
*Separate Help Wanted Section* As far as a separate section for PP "help wanted", I can't see that happening any time soon, however I will bring it up.*
Less than 20-30 posts following rules dea*. We have our hands full just chasing around service providers, manufacturers, and vendors and forcing them to badge up. This extras work is simply not enforceable at this point, as well as polluting the terms of service agreement with even MORE rules that nobody will read anyway. So we would have to chase them down too.

We completely understand that PP contracting is a bit different than the "regular" contracting here, as evidenced by the question I posed when starting this thread.

We want to do right by you and see this section grow even more. However, at this point we as mods have to enforce the rules as they stand NOW and not convolute the terms of service page with even more rules and regulations.

At this point, we will continue to delete these types of posts as they show up, but let's keep the communication open should you see some benefit in leaving them open.

OK, it's Miller Time! :clap:


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

rselectric1 said:


> This extras work is simply not enforceable at this point, as well as polluting the terms of service agreement with even MORE rules that nobody will read anyway. So we would have to chase them down too.






Your post addressed a forum's growing pains in 3 or 4 areas.
Especially this one.


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

most when you ask for a pay schedule their done talking,figure your more about money then working,had it happen to many times...want your money for insurance and everything then discuss details,but im all for they should release all info upfront


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

Make'em disclose their fees...these sound like regional middle men to me.


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## rselectric1 (Apr 12, 2012)

For the time being, our policy will stand. We will just delete them as unsolicited advertisements.

Thanks for all your input guys and gals!


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2011)

Well darn. Can we still harass them ;-)


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes for Matt he needs to know people are not playing games with him. Being a con and a scammer is not a good look. In today's world honest people are looking for honest work and when you do the work requested you expect to be paid. No one works for free and no one deserves to be taken for a ride like he has taken people. 
He is collecting and living well and giving peanuts to the people that helped keep him where he is.... He will find out no one is playing games with him that people want there money ....that is why people start filing paperwork when necessary


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