# What would you do?



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

Pre-Sale initial secure for a national. Utilities off, all blinds shut. Drill out back lock, personals are present. TV, couch, wooden furniture, etc. Nothing of high value, but personals nonetheless. Homeowner isn't living at property, unclear when they were there last. I put a new knob on back door, left and reported as occupied.

National is requesting that I put the drilled out knob back on since it's occupied, even if it will leave it occupied. I am saying I won't do that, as that will leave home unsecure.


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

Now they are saying that nobody living there means vacant, regardless of items.


----------



## reoguys (May 25, 2012)

Sounds like the siblings here. Because it is a pre-sale and NOT REO I would probably do as instructed making sure everything is in writing. One reason we quit working for the siblings.


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yeah, try to get that same rep on the phone after a claim is filed against you.
Your better off leaving the property secure with a contact sticker for them to call rather than an open door for anyone to go thru, especially since your client knows you were the last one there.


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

That is correct. Do *nothing* that has not been communicated nor approved in writing beforehand.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2012)

Is there some sort of contingency for "personals" being present at the property, in the agreement you signed with the company? I don't know anything about PP, but it would just seem logical to have something like that in the agreement I'd think.

Just wondering....


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Yeah, try to get that same rep on the phone after a claim is filed against you.
> Your better off leaving the property secure with a contact sticker for them to call rather than an open door for anyone to go thru, especially since your client knows you were the last one there.


Exactly what I was thinking.... what if a claim that something is now "missing" is on its way (even though I'm sure you touched nothing) now that they know someone has been in there and the company knows it was the OP? :whistling


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

Sorry writing from phone so being brief,

Not the siblings
No personals limit on work order. 
Company said stuff doesn't matter, only people living there.
I won't leave unsecured, but will finish work order as only things left are mow, signs, damages.
I tried to get straight answer while I was there but couldn't, was just told to submit order


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

CompleteW&D said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.... what if a claim that something is now "missing" is on its way (even though I'm sure you touched nothing) now that they know someone has been in there and the company knows it was the OP? :whistling


Yeah, if I left unsecure, and someone else went in and took something, I would be liable (rightly so).

Always a risk of this happening, utilities were off, only trash outside, but blinds were drawn so couldn't see in.


----------



## reoguys (May 25, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Yeah, try to get that same rep on the phone after a claim is filed against you.
> Your better off leaving the property secure with a contact sticker for them to call rather than an open door for anyone to go thru, especially since your client knows you were the last one there.


Agree!


----------



## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm going to just throw a couple of hypotheticals out-

*Couple has split up. One has moved their belongings out, the other is still working on it.
*Guy is on active duty overseas. Girlfriend who was supposed to be handling his affairs has ran off with his cousin and left him without a clue.
*Mortgager is in the hospital long term and has no family other than the creeps that came in and took what they wanted before you arrived.
*Mortgager has died and the estate has yet to be settled. Kids never knew grandpa still had a mortgage since the payment book is buried under a stack of newspapers in the living room along with three months of mail.
*Property is a second home to a old couple who are retired and living out of state. Notices have been sent to the vacant unit rather than their primary address. 

Actually the above are all true. And once someone comes back and sees the door, the notice, the interior...they'll call your client, who will call your insurance carrier and you are on the hook my friend.

Personal Property Evictions and a good camera are old friends.


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

To be clear, we are not trashing out. This is a pre sale so a personal property eviction is not an option here as the bank doesn't own the property, homeowner does. We are only here to address emergency preservation issues (which there are none here).

We do a lot of these for other companies, several per week, but 99% of the time you can tell if personals are present before entering. And when they are, typically you are asked not to proceed.


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> Now they are saying that nobody living there means vacant, regardless of items.







Report it as "no signs of recent occupancy, with personals."


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Report it as "no signs of recent occupancy, with personals."


Unfortunately not an option on their checkboxes. This is the same company as my other post today.


----------



## Guest (Jul 13, 2012)

reoguys said:


> Sounds like the siblings here. Because it is a pre-sale and NOT REO I would probably do as instructed making sure everything is in writing. One reason we quit working for the siblings.


It does sound like the Brothers. Need to keep in mind that most of there coorantors are new and not have a clue what they are doing!


----------



## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

BPWY said:


> Report it as "no signs of recent occupancy, with personals."


Unfortunately dependent on state laws you have already committed TRESPASS. In my state the bank has NO LEGAL right to enter the property until it is in a REO status. I am in a suit over this and all along the national has been leading us to believe we ( contractors) have a legal right to enter the properties. If there are any signs posted on the interior remove them and paste them on the outside. Make it appear as though once you drilled the deadbolt you saw personals and decided to beat feet.

IS there a second door that you can use to exit the house ?? If so I recommend reinstalling the lock with the actuating mechanism disabled... install the latch in the door shut door and engage mechanism so it locks door. Install drilled lock minus mechanism tail that goes between both halfs of lock ( now anyone can assess house if installed with mechanism) . Go outside put exterior half on and duct tape it on ( to temporaliy hold it on if you are only at property) go back inside and install interior part of lock , screw it together. exit through second door and remove duct tape.

I have run into similar situations and put tape over locks to see of anyone is accessing property. If you have to post property do so from exterior. If national has a problem with that I tell them about the trespass and They back off. I have also told them in high crime areas I don't post in a real visible spot they had a fit and I replied its a calling card for vandalism.

Best of luck

Back everything up and scan the work order because they have a way of disappearing off of the nationals web sites.

invest in some bump keys. you tube it. Or if you have a good relationship with a locksmith ask them for a schlague and kwikset code of 77777 if you are lucky they will cut them for you. ( they are illegal for anyone except a lock smith)


----------



## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> Unfortunately not an option on their checkboxes. This is the same company as my other post today.


We usually call this vacant but not abandoned. And no matter what the work order states, about value of personals, be very very very careful when entering a property that has personals. If it looks like stuff they will be back after, better to have to come back with the client instructions to proceed in writing, than to end up in court facing charges of trespass, theft, property damage...and the list goes on.

Now, once you're inside, and see personals, complete the interior inspection and take good pictures. This does two things, both cover your arse. The pictures show the state of the dwelling when you were there, any pre-existing damages, and you can report any emergency conditions to your client. If there are any emergency conditions, and if they want you to go back, ask for it in writing, now you have a valid reason for being in/on the property. Mortagage agreements usually give the bank permission to correct emergency conditions to protect the property.


----------



## Guest (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm telling ya that if you walked into my house with personals in it I'D OWN YA.... Just saying.


----------



## Guest (Jul 23, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> That is correct. Do *nothing* that has not been communicated nor approved in writing beforehand.


Thats right. In fact I would take it a step further. Get it in writing, and then respond with your take of what they are telling you to do. 

For example:

Hello ____,

I have received your approval to leave the property unsecure per our description of the blah blah blah.....we will be completeing yadda yadda yadda. Please confirm before we proceed.


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

I am parting ways with this company, we didn't see eye to eye. In that same week I had a work order to "board up" on a property I'd already been to. They wanted me to board up a door that was busted up to a screened in porch that had another walkway that had no door on it. The week previous they wanted me to bust out three slightly cracked windows on a pre-sale home so I could board(YES). I had only done a total of maybe 6 preservation work orders for them, excluding grass cuts, and all but maybe one were a complete disaster in some way or another.

- Homeowner showing up on me
- Work 3x what they claimed in work order for price
- Asking me to do something bogus seeming to be grasping for work on properties already completed
- Being told pics are missing after I submit work order, such as keys in lock, when I always show before/during/after on lock changes. And they have no photo requirement list
- Then my check came shorted $500, second person says I need to send my my GL policy, even though I already sent to someone else

And no, this isn't a regional.


----------



## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Swift it sounds like you need to talk to the Huffington post reporter and out this very bad egg.


----------



## Guest (Jul 25, 2012)

Hey man I hear ya. Hi Im new and I work for a guy whos a vendor (i guess) for a few nationals. Now I don't own a company yet but I've been working with him for 6 months and here is what I would have done.


- Homeowner showing up on me (always confirm with next door first on INT!)

- Work 3x what they claimed in work order for price (Stop it I do what you do but take home HOURLY wage and I only remove 4 cy when it say 4 cy on the order but the house could still have 8 more cy... not my problem)

- Asking me to do something bogus seeming to be grasping for work on properties already completed (FREE MONEY?!)

- Being told pics are missing after I submit work order, such as keys in lock, when I always show before/during/after on lock changes. And they have no photo requirement list (General rule take same pic with multiple angles man)

- Then my check came shorted $500, second person says I need to send my my GL policy, even though I already sent to someone else
(Sorry can't help ya kinda wish I had that problem myself)

Heh you think working for a national is bad try being at the VERY VERY bottom of the food chain and doing all the working everyone else is.


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

Hey man I hear ya. Hi Im new and I work for a guy whos a vendor (i guess) for a few nationals. Now I don't own a company yet but I've been working with him for 6 months and here is what I would have done.


- Homeowner showing up on me (always confirm with next door first on INT!)
*----Not always doable during the day, people often gone at work*

- Work 3x what they claimed in work order for price (Stop it I do what you do but take home HOURLY wage and I only remove 4 cy when it say 4 cy on the order but the house could still have 8 more cy... not my problem)
*----That's what we did*

- Asking me to do something bogus seeming to be grasping for work on properties already completed (FREE MONEY?!)
*----HUGE liability. Busting out a window on a home still owned by a homeowner so I can board it? No way. And ethically? No way. It's one thing to do something in the grey, another to do blatent fraud. Do you really want to get in trouble for defrauding FHA?*

- Being told pics are missing after I submit work order, such as keys in lock, when I always show before/during/after on lock changes. And they have no photo requirement list (General rule take same pic with multiple angles man)
*----IMHO I do not like when a bunch of pics are taken from different angles for a lock change. Three pics needed, as more just make sorting pics confusing. Old lock/no lock/new lock all from the same angle. More angles wouldn't have helped this case, as it was keys in the lock.*

- Then my check came shorted $500, second person says I need to send my my GL policy, even though I already sent to someone else
(Sorry can't help ya kinda wish I had that problem myself)


Heh you think working for a national is bad try being at the VERY VERY bottom of the food chain and doing all the working everyone else is.
*----I don't think working for a national in general is bad, I just had a bad experience(worse than usual) with this particular one. As far as the food chain, it depends on your goals. Being an employee/worker is secure, and you get paid fast. When my guys can't work for some reason, I have to, when I'm on vacation(I am now), I still have to work some. And tomorrow my work could drop off, as it can be unpredictable, and we are still stuck with vehicle payments, insurance payments(more than my vehicle payments), etc. If a homeowner decided that we took their valuables, we get sued. Higher reward usually means higher risk. Always checking my email 24/7 to make sure we stay on top of orders(some nationals send emails in the middle of the night, that's fun).*


----------



## Guest (Jul 25, 2012)

That's shady if they are telling you to bust a window period. 

As for telling if it is still vacant look at the mailbox does it have spider webs or tons of uncollected mail? Look at the drive way does it even looked driven on? Dust on the door knobs? Are you walking into spider webs in main entrance?

About the angles just three will do for those before/during/after cause the way I see it if they re ask for the photos you can supply ample.

And finally I understand what your talking about when you mention most employees. I can only imagine the anxiety you and others go through. But Res I don't know the whole depth of your company but I have a question. Whats better pay 12 hourly wage 10-12 hours a day doing 7-12 work orders or 3-5 work orders a day all pocketed by me? Cause the way you just described the pain is kinda putting me off wanting to fly solo. I go by the work order and have never been in trouble.


----------



## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

thedaiki said:


> That's shady if they are telling you to bust a window period.
> 
> As for telling if it is still vacant look at the mailbox does it have spider webs or tons of uncollected mail? Look at the drive way does it even looked driven on? Dust on the door knobs? Are you walking into spider webs in main entrance?
> 
> ...


As far as your final paragraph, what my guys, and most people in your position probably don't see is the amount of time that goes in behind the scenes on these work orders. The dozens of emails per day, the 5-45 minutes submitting each work order, invoicing, etc. Actually DOING the work is maybe only 70% of the total hours involved. 

As far as the hourly wage versus doing it on your own, that's impossible to tell, as a work order could be a $20 order or a $1000 order. But honestly most people don't like the risk of getting their own insurance, vehicles, fronting thousands and thousands of dollars waiting minimum of a month for payments, invoicing customers, dealing with all of these companies tell you that you missed this or that, etc.


----------

