# ug.... more crappy prices i found



## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

329 for a fully loaded trailer?? 15 yards.. my dump charges 89.00 for the 1st ton. ugh!.. and that is not what got junk charges.:vs_no_no_no:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Why do you care? Not being a smart ass I'm honestly asking why do you care?


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## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

*Why...*

Cause its idiots like this that ruin it.. most people are cheap, they want the cheaper **** thus why walmart is so large!!! someone says oh i can save 10$ but its the "same" work why not.. 
I care cause these idiots dont have DOT #'s you damn sure they are not bonded, then cause they are a "fly by night" company and they steal or do other stuff we the good guys take the brunt of the bad feed back.

You know how many jobs i have lost cause people want cheap. Or how many calls i get saying can you come back and finish, I paid the guys and they never came back..

Im not complaining i find it rude that people that use a old boat trailer and slap a sign on the side and say he we do junk removal..
Not sure if you are being an a$$ about my post or not? its kinda like Facebook you don't like my post you can ignore it?

I post stuff to keep this site going since it seems so many people are on here just for the free info and not giving any feed back. I really dont have no reason to come here no more but i enjoy reading the good info and its helped me in some areas.

So yes.. that is my reason.. just plan ole boredom and crabbiness from reading bad websites and reading horrrible reviews.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

how can anyone make any money at those rates? Illegals at $8/hr cash??? I don't see how filling a 15cy truck or trailer that takes the better part of a day with a crew of 3 is making anything let alone breaking even.


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

IMHO, anyone has the right to advertise whatever they want. That being said, if they do not dispose of the trash according to law, etc., and can cover their costs without screwing their employees- go for it. That is what makes 'merica great. I'll focus more on overdelivering to their potential customers so when they drop the ball, I am able to justify my rates. It has worked fine for me so far.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

As in every business you must compare Apples to Apples. Ex: today I did an insurance inspection with an adjuster, insurance companies preffered vendor who was $88/sq cheaper than the homeowners contractor and the homeowner present. The adjuster sat there and said "we will NOT pay more than what "our" contractor would charge to do the job---a square of shingle costs the same to install no matter who does the work"

At that point I asked this Preffered Vendor to get me his Cert of Ins which he promptly and proudly handed to me. I turned to the homeowner and pointed out his Ins Policy pays on a Claims Made basis and when or if he closes his doors you will need to personally sue the adjuster for not vetting his Preferred Vendor properly. 

Homeowner is having his contractor do the work and Ins is paying for all the invoice. 

The moral is: pricing and quality of service doesnt mean a dang thing if you can't compare exact business models.


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## JoeInPI (Dec 18, 2014)

Exactly. Well said- this is the education of a contractor that is so important, so you're not bringing a knife to a gunfight, per se. Knowing things like this, is HOW you demand- and GET higher prices.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Wannabe said:


> As in every business you must compare Apples to Apples. Ex: today I did an insurance inspection with an adjuster, insurance companies preffered vendor who was $88/sq cheaper than the homeowners contractor and the homeowner present. The adjuster sat there and said "we will NOT pay more than what "our" contractor would charge to do the job---a square of shingle costs the same to install no matter who does the work"
> 
> At that point I asked this Preffered Vendor to get me his Cert of Ins which he promptly and proudly handed to me. I turned to the homeowner and pointed out his Ins Policy pays on a Claims Made basis and when or if he closes his doors you will need to personally sue the adjuster for not vetting his Preferred Vendor properly.
> 
> ...



I can't say that is a make or break deal. The difference of insurance is less than 2k a year. If I was this contractor and that much cheaper than everyone else for whatever stupid reason that I am that cheap in the first place, I would just change the policy, pay the difference, get the job. The difference between contractor a, b, and c may be very minimal. As far as roofing is considered, if you know how to do a roof, you know how to do a roof. I don't think there is any 1 company that can do it better than another. Just 1 might do it incorrectly and another might do it correctly. I know a roofer that charges contractors $100-130sq to rip and lay a new roof + material. He has an average roof done in 4 hours with 5 guys and onto the next. He is licensed and insured properly. Difference is, he won't work with the pia homeowner, only does sub work, and demands payment upon completion same day.


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## PPPrincessNOT (Nov 11, 2013)

ummmm I just got sent this....

I sent back an email that just said LMMFAO:vs_whistle:

 ​* Price List 
* Recuts - $20.00 
Routine Sales Cleans - $18.50 
Initial Services Bundle (Debris Removal, Initial Sales Clean, Initial Lawn, Safety Hazards) - $200.00 - $500.00 
Trip Charge - $10.00 
Boarding – $20.00 - $40.00 
Pool Boarding/Cover – $500.00 - $900.00 
***All other services are on a per bid basis.


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## ezdayman (Jan 7, 2014)

*true*

anyone is allowed to advertise.. doesn't mean they should lol.. I don't care what people charge, but where i live there is cheap and then people that like cheap. 
Hell even the bid i did for kirklands to demo for there new store i had everything down and just to stay busy i was going cheap and the lady said i was the 2nd highest. she said the 1st bid was about 3k less. So you are going to demo a 5000sq ft retail shop for ruffly 4200$? lease my bid i had plumbers coming in to cap the main lines, and to make sure boiler was left in tack. I don't get these people. after cost, rental, dumpster fees he had to walk away with IDK 500-800 for a 9 day job. I had it down as a 4 day job since it was time crunched.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> As far as roofing is considered, if you know how to do a roof, you know how to do a roof. I don't think there is any 1 company that can do it better than another. Just 1 might do it incorrectly and another might do it correctly.


Being an exterior contractor that does quite a few roofs, I'd beg to differ. Installing the shingles is the easy part. Flashings, chimneys, valleys are the hard part. Leaving the homeowners yard cleaner than when you arrive isn't exactly rocket science, but many "roofers" don't. Electric mast through the roof, don't worry many people reuse the old boot. I have my electrician come and replace it. My roofs are better because I care. I'm not bringing 5 guys just to bang it out and on to the next. 

Case in point, I went back last Friday to reinstall a basketball hoop. Homeowner wanted up it as the grandkids use it when they come over. We took it down two weeks prior when replacing the roof. He asked if he could have a little time to wire brush and repaint it. No problem. I charge accordingly and will go the extra mile because of it. He has already referred me to a friend. His friend wants all the aluminum gutter guards removed, repainted and reinstalled when his roof gets replaced. He heard about my "extra mile" with the basketball hoop. That job was sold before he even received the quote.

No offense, but you have a reoccurring theme about needing volume, willing to put up with crap and undervaluing your worth (or telling people what they charge isn't worth it). There is a quote that goes something like "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right". GTX, Wannabe, CL Hack and others point out repeatedly that there is better money out there. After, I started listening to what is said here, they are absolutely right. You need to learn how to sell, what to sell and who to sell it to. I don't go on Craigslist to search for work. I don't use Facebook groups for work either. The people advertising there aren't my customers and never will be.....Just some food for thougt


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

BRADSConst said:


> Being an exterior contractor that does quite a few roofs, I'd beg to differ. Installing the shingles is the easy part. Flashings, chimneys, valleys are the hard part. Leaving the homeowners yard cleaner than when you arrive isn't exactly rocket science, but many "roofers" don't. Electric mast through the roof, don't worry many people reuse the old boot. I have my electrician come and replace it. My roofs are better because I care. I'm not bringing 5 guys just to bang it out and on to the next.
> 
> Case in point, I went back last Friday to reinstall a basketball hoop. Homeowner wanted up it as the grandkids use it when they come over. We took it down two weeks prior when replacing the roof. He asked if he could have a little time to wire brush and repaint it. No problem. I charge accordingly and will go the extra mile because of it. He has already referred me to a friend. His friend wants all the aluminum gutter guards removed, repainted and reinstalled when his roof gets replaced. He heard about my "extra mile" with the basketball hoop. That job was sold before he even received the quote.
> 
> No offense, but you have a reoccurring theme about needing volume, willing to put up with crap and undervaluing your worth (or telling people what they charge isn't worth it). There is a quote that goes something like "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right". GTX, Wannabe, CL Hack and others point out repeatedly that there is better money out there. After, I started listening to what is said here, they are absolutely right. You need to learn how to sell, what to sell and who to sell it to. I don't go on Craigslist to search for work. I don't use Facebook groups for work either. The people advertising there aren't my customers and never will be.....Just some food for thougt



You are absolutely correct, however you are referring to customers that actually care about the product they receive where customer service goes a long way. I'm not saying you are better or worse at what you do, but just because you might "care" and charge more than others, it doesn't mean you do the job any differently. 5 guys on a roof banging it out in a few hours doesn't mean they don't care. It means they have an efficient way of doing business that works for them. What works for some might not work for others. Better money out there should be relevant to the property preservation industry only. There is tons of money to be made and yes some companies are willing to pay higher than others, but if you can only get that higher number once in a while, you still need to hang onto that other work to keep you busy. I'd do grass cuts only through the spring, summer, and fall if they were a $85 ea. With a 2-3 man crew I can do a minimum of 15 the right way per day and still have time with the family. Volume doesn't excuse low pay, but if you are only getting 1 job at such amazing numbers, it doesn't exactly put food on the table, it's just nice to work at over $100/hr.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

I don't think you're grasping what GTX, Wannabe, Mr Hack and Brad have all been trying to tell you. I think I can sum it up in a quick sentence.

If this industry is too watered down and you're only competing for table scraps, then ditch the nationals and regionals and get out in the private market and sell yourself some real meat.

Yes?


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Agreed but isn't this forum for property preservation professionals not general contracting. They have another forum that is for that. I choose not to work on people's homes because I just don't want to deal with it. I like that the houses are vacant, we can work on our schedules not the homeowners.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

safeguard dropout said:


> I don't think you're grasping what GTX, Wannabe, Mr Hack and Brad have all been trying to tell you. I think I can sum it up in a quick sentence.
> 
> If this industry is too watered down and you're only competing for table scraps, then ditch the nationals and regionals and get out in the private market and sell yourself some real meat.
> 
> Yes?


That's mostly correct. I would clarify by saying that "this industry" does not equal nationals and regionals. There are other profitable ways to make money doing preservation type activities. 1800 got junk isn't catering to regionals, yet they are hauling crap out of peoples houses. I've heard, haven't experienced myself yet, that insurance companies can pay big bucks to get a house tarped after a disaster. I personally know there's great money in tree removal after a storm. Ask a house inspector what they charge versus what SG pays for an inspection. 

This "industry" isn't really an "industry". Far as I'm concerned, its a red-headed step child of many different industries thrown together (home inspectors, landscapers, contractors, etc). It kills me the people that bend over backwards picking pennies from regionals and nationals and yet walk away from dollars all while telling those that ARE DOING IT, that it cant' be done and its not worth what they charge.....


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

When I think of property preservation of think of working on preforclosure and two properties. If that is on the local realtor level all the way to the national level it is still the same. Yes we are required go be Jacks of all trades but it's not all bad and like I said, I choose not to use my gc lic to work on people's properties. I still think the nationals and regional take too big of a cut giving the contractors very little doing the job


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*You can tell my roofing and siding work from across*



BRADSConst said:


> Being an exterior contractor that does quite a few roofs, I'd beg to differ. Installing the shingles is the easy part. Flashings, chimneys, valleys are the hard part. Leaving the homeowners yard cleaner than when you arrive isn't exactly rocket science, but many "roofers" don't. Electric mast through the roof, don't worry many people reuse the old boot. I have my electrician come and replace it. My roofs are better because I care. I'm not bringing 5 guys just to bang it out and on to the next.
> 
> Case in point, I went back last Friday to reinstall a basketball hoop. Homeowner wanted up it as the grandkids use it when they come over. We took it down two weeks prior when replacing the roof. He asked if he could have a little time to wire brush and repaint it. No problem. I charge accordingly and will go the extra mile because of it. He has already referred me to a friend. His friend wants all the aluminum gutter guards removed, repainted and reinstalled when his roof gets replaced. He heard about my "extra mile" with the basketball hoop. That job was sold before he even received the quote.
> 
> No offense, but you have a reoccurring theme about needing volume, willing to put up with crap and undervaluing your worth (or telling people what they charge isn't worth it). There is a quote that goes something like "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right". GTX, Wannabe, CL Hack and others point out repeatedly that there is better money out there. After, I started listening to what is said here, they are absolutely right. You need to learn how to sell, what to sell and who to sell it to. I don't go on Craigslist to search for work. I don't use Facebook groups for work either. The people advertising there aren't my customers and never will be.....Just some food for thougt


the street or down the block,nice flat properly installed metal work,nice straight starts ridges,mitered channels,perfectly fitting drip edge,etc. Caulking, we don't need no stimkin' caulking.I don't do many these days,but there is a waiting list. Five laborers won't be "knocking it out" like that.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

madxtreme01 said:


> I still think the nationals and regional take too big of a cut giving the contractors very little doing the job


They only take if you give it.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> Agreed but isn't this forum for property preservation professionals not general contracting.


Really, without bias because of your personal experience, what is the difference?
McDonald's makes hamburgers but they aren't the definition of a hamburger.
Are you a contractor who does preservation work or a contractor who just works for preservation companies? That is where the real difference is; you just have to let it sink in for a bit.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> When I think of property preservation of think of working on preforclosure and two properties. If that is on the local realtor level all the way to the national level it is still the same. Yes we are required go be Jacks of all trades but it's not all bad and like I said, I choose not to use my gc lic to work on people's properties. I still think the nationals and regional take too big of a cut giving the contractors very little doing the job


I guess my definition varies from yours. I'm more interested in preserving properties than property preservation. A tree falls on your roof and I'll be there tomorrow to remove it and tarp it. I'll also charge accordingly. I will preserve your property whether its foreclosed, vacant, a summer home or actively lived in. It doesn't matter to me, as long as the job fits MY company needs.

We do agree that Nats and regionals, in most cases, take too big of a piece of the pie. Where we differ is I don't accept it and choose to do something about it. If you can trashout a foreclosed home, you can trashout a house to settle an estate. If you can wint a foreclosed home, you can wint a vacation home. If you can mow lawns on a foreclosure, you can mow lawns for the city, township, cemetery, etc. It's time to start thinking outside the box.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

BRADSConst said:


> I guess my definition varies from yours. I'm more interested in preserving properties than property preservation. A tree falls on your roof and I'll be there tomorrow to remove it and tarp it. I'll also charge accordingly. I will preserve your property whether its foreclosed, vacant, a summer home or actively lived in. It doesn't matter to me, as long as the job fits MY company needs.
> 
> We do agree that Nats and regionals, in most cases, take too big of a piece of the pie. Where we differ is I don't accept it and choose to do something about it. If you can trashout a foreclosed home, you can trashout a house to settle an estate. If you can wint a foreclosed home, you can wint a vacation home. If you can mow lawns on a foreclosure, you can mow lawns for the city, township, cemetery, etc. It's time to start thinking outside the box.


I think we all need to state what this site is intended for. I'm not saying that doing contracting work is different than property preservation or landscaping depending on the scope of work, but what I seem to be missing is that whatever you choose to use as a stream for revenue is great, I just thought this site was geared towards the property preservation industry meaning preserving foreclosed homes. As far as doing work for estates, homeowners, vacation homes etc they are great ways to make money. 

I guess where I am going with this is, has everyone here gotten away from the preservation industry (nationals, regionals, local, broker direct) for work and gone back to contracting?


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> Really, without bias because of your personal experience, what is the difference?
> McDonald's makes hamburgers but they aren't the definition of a hamburger.
> Are you a contractor who does preservation work or a contractor who just works for preservation companies? That is where the real difference is; you just have to let it sink in for a bit.



I don't think there is a real difference, however as a contractor that only does bank work out of choice, I am looking for information relevant to the preservation industry. Replacing a roof for some lady on her home doesn't really fit into what this site was originated for. At least to me.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> I think we all need to state what this site is intended for.


Here is a little bit of history as you've been here about 6 months. This site was originally a subforum of our sister site ContractorTalk. PreservationTalk was spun off mainly due to posters violating the rules of CT. CT does not allow discussions of "What should I charge" or "How much is this worth." Those types of discussions account for a large amount of the content here. I guess is was easier to spin off PT instead of moderating tons of threads and posts on CT.

As for this site, it is intended for sharing information to members here. That doesn't mean everything is valuable to everyone. 

Now here is where I'm going to crawl up on my high horse and pat myself on the back. I've been here for just over 3 years. In that time I've been asked to be a moderator. I've made almost 1000 posts and for those posts I've received over 1000 "Thanks". While what I post may not suit your needs, you are free to ignore them. There has to be some people here who find what I share valuable, even if its not how to make a $5 inspection profitable. Steps down off high horse and stops self accolades.....

I would also like to point out the most viewed thread. Wannabe's thread titled "How I got out of P&P" has over 362,000 views. That is the most viewed thread with relatively few posts, around 30. That tells me something......


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Not going to lie, P&P sucks, but for someone who started out as an inspector and then formed a property preservation company and went from there, it scares me to become a contractor. I am more than capable of performing the work, I am licensed and insured, I own all the equipment, and I have the staff that could perform the work. I just haven't pulled the trigger yet to move forward towards that. I guess it's my inexperience in the field that holds me back. Like I said I know how to do the work, I am familiar with building codes, but there is a very big difference between doing P&P work and being a gc. So the information I am looking for on this site is more relevant to the P&P & REO industry. I have gotten defensive when people on here comment stating I've gotten this much to do this and when you ask who it's for, your told it's not a national, it's some guy down the road that needed something done.


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## AceVentura (Sep 6, 2015)

madxtreme01 said:


> Not going to lie, P&P sucks, but for someone who started out as an inspector and then formed a property preservation company and went from there, it scares me to become a contractor. I am more than capable of performing the work, I am licensed and insured, I own all the equipment, and I have the staff that could perform the work. I just haven't pulled the trigger yet to move forward towards that. I guess it's my inexperience in the field that holds me back. Like I said I know how to do the work, I am familiar with building codes, but there is a very big difference between doing P&P work and being a gc. So the information I am looking for on this site is more relevant to the P&P & REO industry. I have gotten defensive when people on here comment stating I've gotten this much to do this and when you ask who it's for, your told it's not a national, it's some guy down the road that needed something done.



no actual difference between contracting & p&p just a state of mind.

The state of mind that is different is that people think they do not need to abide by laws in p&p.

When OSHA catches ya worken on a roof without the right equiptment thats when maybe you will realize there is no difference besides the fact that a lot of the p&p folk fail to abide to the laws.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Madextreme,

Thank you for the honesty and your sincerity. I think a vast majority of "contractors" on this forum did start in the P&P field and evolved into full scale contracting services out of necessity. Nothing wrong with being worried and a little scared  I'm sure everyone on here that does private party work can relate....I know I can.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

AceVentura said:


> no actual difference between contracting & p&p just a state of mind.
> 
> The state of mind that is different is that people think they do not need to abide by laws in p&p.
> 
> When OSHA catches ya worken on a roof without the right equiptment thats when maybe you will realize there is no difference besides the fact that a lot of the p&p folk fail to abide to the laws.



Agreed, same goes for mold abatement, but that is the nationals trying to cut corners by putting a bandaid on the problem. I refuse to do the "painting" over the mold solution. However your information on OSHA is a little misleading. The roof part although it might be unsafe to be up there without proper protection, OSHA only covers my employees, not myself or subcontractors. So in reality we are all subcontractors and very few people in this industry have employees, so the only person that would be covered would be the helper for the day if exposed to an unsafe working condition.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Be sure to read those OSHA rules and who actually gets fined. You sub to a roofing company and their helpers are over 6' off ground fall protection is required. The GC ends up with a nice little letter or those helpers BETTER RUN FAST or as my case don't have more than 1 extension cord unless they are zip tied or taped together since it's a trip hazard.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Wannabe said:


> Be sure to read those OSHA rules and who actually gets fined. You sub to a roofing company and their helpers are over 6' off ground fall protection is required. The GC ends up with a nice little letter or those helpers BETTER RUN FAST or as my case don't have more than 1 extension cord unless they are zip tied or taped together since it's a trip hazard.



Wouldn't the roofing company be fined if they are a legit company? Why would the gc be responsible?


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> Wouldn't the roofing company be fined if they are a legit company? Why would the gc be responsible?


GC can be fined and held responsible if he/she knows the sub is violating OSHA regs. If you aren't onsite its a little tougher to prove. You show up to check on the job and you are liable.


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