# Huge roof misunderstanding issues



## REPAIRPRO30 (Feb 24, 2017)

Well I want it to point this one out there for everyone, because I have a feeling something is not right when roof replacements come out. A typical roof replacement (tile,shingle, flat) can cost between depending on measurements 10 - 30 k. here is the issue we are been forced to run the entire decking on CE, then the roofers they never replace all decking, because it makes sense they will only replace what's rotten up to 100 sf or so. the hardest part and the point of all this is. if you only replace 5 sheets of decking by the time you run your CE, You will no have enough to cover for the cost of the replacement. Then nationals want you to run the entire thing, then to cut you when everything is completed and inspection is pass. because you did not replace all decking. I have spoken to many roofers and replacement of all decking is an option but it will cost a lot more than a regular replacement were only up to 5 sheets are included. So this means Cost estimator is not a useful tool to run roof replacements because by only running 5 sheets even with the rest of components you will not have enough to complete the repair, unless you run the entire roof decking replace only what's is rotten and get paid for the entire bid the way you originally submitted.

I want opinions here. 

thank you .


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

REPAIRPRO30 said:


> Well I want it to point this one out there for everyone, because I have a feeling something is not right when roof replacements come out. A typical roof replacement (tile,shingle, flat) can cost between depending on measurements 10 - 30 k. here is the issue we are been forced to run the entire decking on CE, then the roofers they never replace all decking, because it makes sense they will only replace what's rotten up to 100 sf or so. the hardest part and the point of all this is. if you only replace 5 sheets of decking by the time you run your CE, You will no have enough to cover for the cost of the replacement. Then nationals want you to run the entire thing, then to cut you when everything is completed and inspection is pass. because you did not replace all decking. I have spoken to many roofers and replacement of all decking is an option but it will cost a lot more than a regular replacement were only up to 5 sheets are included. So this means Cost estimator is not a useful tool to run roof replacements because by only running 5 sheets even with the rest of components you will not have enough to complete the repair, unless you run the entire roof decking replace only what's is rotten and get paid for the entire bid the way you originally submitted.
> 
> I want opinions here.
> 
> thank you .


When required to use a CE, I edit the pricing to work for my area. Never use a CE blindly.


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## REPAIRPRO30 (Feb 24, 2017)

PropPresPro said:


> When required to use a CE, I edit the pricing to work for my area. Never use a CE blindly.


But then you are "overbidding" bumping your price will only mean for then to cut you to whatever they ran on their side. I need a solution for decking replacement, how would you get away from running all decking and not replacing it completely?. Preservation should not get involved in any big repairs at all. they just don't have the knowledge of how it really works out there.


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## WestCOREO (Dec 3, 2014)

On bank owned properties, I have bypassed CE by submitting a bid for a bid from a 3rd party contractor at cost of bid +10%. Doesn't get you the roofing job directly, but you can negotiate with the 3rd party contractor for a percentage that they would add in to their bid. Personally, I have never had a bank beat me up on pricing on a bid from a 3rd party contractor. 

You could also try submitting a bid from another, more detailed estimator like Xactimate but a subscription to that is $1600+/year, and it doesn't necessarily mean the bank will agree to Xactimate pricing. 

In my area roofers will charge around $75 per sheet after first 5 sheets which are included with roof replacement. My opinion is if you want to get paid to do roofing, go after roofing jobs that are not on bank owned properties.


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## REPAIRPRO30 (Feb 24, 2017)

T


WestCOREO said:


> On bank owned properties, I have bypassed CE by submitting a bid for a bid from a 3rd party contractor at cost of bid +10%. Doesn't get you the roofing job directly, but you can negotiate with the 3rd party contractor for a percentage that they would add in to their bid. Personally, I have never had a bank beat me up on pricing on a bid from a 3rd party contractor.
> 
> You could also try submitting a bid from another, more detailed estimator like Xactimate but a subscription to that is $1600+/year, and it doesn't necessarily mean the bank will agree to Xactimate pricing.
> 
> In my area roofers will charge around $75 per sheet after first 5 sheets which are included with roof replacement. My opinion is if you want to get paid to do roofing, go after roofing jobs that are not on bank owned properties.


Totally agreed. What I did was sent them the invoice from my roof guy. You know what they told me they client doesn't care, they will only pay for what was replaced. I told them tell the client my roof guy doesn't care either. he will place a lien on the property if we haven't solve the issue by next week. Is sad but you are right we will stop completing repairs on preservation, you will only get cut all the time since they don't understand and don't care how things are run on the street not on the computer or CE.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

REPAIRPRO30 said:


> T
> they told me they client doesn't care, they will only pay for what was replaced.


OK, I've read this thread like 10 times and I'm still not understanding what the big stink is. Believe me, I hate the CE. Repair Base was written by the people that pay the bills, if that tells you anything.

What I'm not understanding though is why you seam to be complaining that the bank won't pay for what they're not getting. Repair Base is actually pretty fair with sheathing, I think 2.60 sq ft.... Obviously you get screwed more the less you do, as is the case with any CE as they don't account for mobility, but 5 sheets should profit you ~300ish or a bit more. 

If I know there is rotten sheathing, I will bid replacement on the entire thing. If I bid 10 sheets and only replace 5, I don't expect them to pay for 10. A bid approval is simply a green light to replace up to 10 sheets. What am I not understanding?


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## REPAIRPRO30 (Feb 24, 2017)

safeguard dropout said:


> OK, I've read this thread like 10 times and I'm still not understanding what the big stink is. Believe me, I hate the CE. Repair Base was written by the people that pay the bills, if that tells you anything.
> 
> What I'm not understanding though is why you seam to be complaining that the bank won't pay for what they're not getting. Repair Base is actually pretty fair with sheathing, I think 2.60 sq ft.... Obviously you get screwed more the less you do, as is the case with any CE as they don't account for mobility, but 5 sheets should profit you ~300ish or a bit more.
> 
> If I know there is rotten sheathing, I will bid replacement on the entire thing. If I bid 10 sheets and only replace 5, I don't expect them to pay for 10. A bid approval is simply a green light to replace up to 10 sheets. What am I not understanding?


Good morning and thank you for the comment. I was already waiting for someone to post something like this, yes I am aware and I even told the national I did not replace all decking for sure, but here is the issue nobody is getting. If I'm the roof guy I will charge you lets say $450.00 per SQ up to 5 rotten sheets. Now when you begging breaking it down on CE by line item if you don't include all decking then you will be short on the SQ and you wont be able to make the $450 mark per SQ. Roof guys don't care how you break it down the price out there is per SQ up to 5 sheets any additional sheet is $75.00 per. Running a CE will not take you to the actual cost of a roof replacement if the entire decking is not ran. My roofer charged me $12,000 fair price when the national removed most of the decking I will be getting paid $9,800 it means I will have to come out with out of pocket money. Understand now?


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

Sounds to me like you need to get with your roofer and say hey, this is how I get paid, and this is what I can offer you. If the numbers don't work, shake hands and walk away. Then go look for roofing jobs that are profitable. 

If the banks are hung up on the CE, let them hang. :hang:


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## TripleG (Apr 17, 2015)

> if you don't include all decking then you will be short on the SQ and you wont be able to make the $450 mark per SQ.


OK. I see your problem now. Your thinking that if the cost of the job exceeds your initial bid price that you will be compensated. You won't.

Safeguard just said what we were are all thinking. 



> If I know there is rotten sheathing, I will bid replacement on the entire thing.


*

If you have a hint that there might be more damage than what you believe can be seen in a picture you need to bid the entire roof to cover your ass. We always get screwed. *

This applies to every job we bid for. Always bid for more than what is there in case it's more. We also need to add an extra %30-%40 to make up for the % they take off the top. You know what your National probably did? They paid you what your original bid was and then invoiced the entire thing themselves on their end, because they already know how the system works.


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## REPAIRPRO30 (Feb 24, 2017)

TripleG said:


> OK. I see your problem now. Your thinking that if the cost of the job exceeds your initial bid price that you will be compensated. You won't.
> 
> Safeguard just said what we were are all thinking.
> 
> ...


Wait a minute, you are not getting it. We always bid for the entire decking replacement since you have no idea how many sheets you will replace. But at the end when you invoice, they will only pay you for the 3-5 sheets you replaced. re-adjusting you big on decking big time. Here is when the problem comes because then you wont have enough to pay your roofer. Roofers don't have to adjust to anyone, they have their pricing, they don't care about not bank. here the roof is 14 k you don't like it find another roof guy, then all roof guys are about the same. Also preservation doesn't have stages for payments. We are basically financing at 0% interest for up to 90 days 14 k. that's freaking crazy. At least on the repairs department they will give you some money to begin with. The point is repairs on preservation the biggest mistake you could make. you will think you are making money until you realized the type of financing you are subject to.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Do you have the option of inputting individual line items into your estimating software? 

Example: ## square shingle removal, ## + plus waste factor shingle replace, detach/reset gutters per LF, ## SF tar Paper/felt, ##LF starter strip, ##lf ridge cap, # of roof vents removed & replaced, SF of ice/water shield (doubled if soffit width is greater than 12"), ## valley metals, ## step flashing, LF drip edge, permit costs, markup, etc etc

If you can input the appropriate line items your $450/sq will increase AND the cubicle monkeys will be more likely to approve.


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## REPAIRPRO30 (Feb 24, 2017)

Wannabe said:


> Do you have the option of inputting individual line items into your estimating software?
> 
> Example: ## square shingle removal, ## + plus waste factor shingle replace, detach/reset gutters per LF, ## SF tar Paper/felt, ##LF starter strip, ##lf ridge cap, # of roof vents removed & replaced, SF of ice/water shield (doubled if soffit width is greater than 12"), ## valley metals, ## step flashing, LF drip edge, permit costs, markup, etc etc
> 
> If you can input the appropriate line items your $450/sq will increase AND the cubicle monkeys will be more likely to approve.


here is the thing this is not for Safeguard, believe safeguard will approved me anything with no problem on xact. this is one of those nationals lacking from lots of experience, but is all good we will place liens this week.

thanks to everyone for the comments.


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