# Grass Cut Competetive Pricing?



## Guest

G'day. I have been working with a national, and they are having their second year (my first) of a pricing competition among contractors to secure the bulk of the grass cuts in their areas. How low will they go?? Is the national going to invoice their client by HUD specs, take their 20% and pocket the rest? Or will they too, offer their clients a wide ranging price scale on a national level saying $60 in Orlando, $40 in Oshkosh and only $30 in Oakland. LOL, I doubt it. They also stated the bids must be less than HUD pricing (of course). I did not want to participate, but I will; going $1 less than HUD pricing. If the lowballers go broke when gas hits $5, then I might get some grass cuts and be paid what we should be getting paid.


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## Guest

Signing up to see how low you can drop your prices?? Am I reading that right?

If so, why not separate yourself from the pack and go right to zero? Be the first one there. 

Good Luck
Dave


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## Guest

HUD sets the prices for initial grass cuts and re-cuts. If we as contractors are to be paid $85 for a grass cut, and the national takes their 20%, all is as it is supposed to be. If I were working on a 20% comission basis, I would like to charge the most I can for a service. I *doubt* the national company is going to offer their clients reduced rates for the grass cuts! They will probably invoice them the set HUD price. Then they will pay the grass cut contractor their approved bid price AND get their 20% as well. I told them to be like me, the little guy...get more clients, take your 20% and your profits will rise. If this continues in our industry, we will be competing with people who will cut grass for $15 and provide $15 worth of work. I have seen it and I'm sure others have too. In the long run, the national will lose due to the diluted pools of sub-par contractors.


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## Guest

Are you talking about getting the contracts to mow foreclosed homes?
I'm not familiar with dealing with HUD.

I try to mow only for people who CAN afford to keep and maintain their homes.
It's a unique concept, I know, but it's working for me.


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## Guest

LOL. Yes this is for vacant and forclosed properties. I provide all property preservation services. I am a preservation vendor with this national and asked about becoming a grass cut vendor as well. They said "how low can you go?" in an industry with set pricing. Has anyone else experienced this?


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## Guest

I don't mow lawns and I think I'm still confused about what you're saying. I did at one time take care of vacant properties for the VA. In that case I simply billed them direct and they paid me, eventually. It was a good opportunity because I got to mow it once and figure out how long it took, bill them based on my hourly rate and that set the cost for additional cuts on the same property.

I also don't understand how these bidding companies are sprouting up after the $300 screwdriver deal. We are bidding on flagstands for the Army. We exceeded their limit that doesn't require approval and now have to bid through an agency that will tack on a commission and another fee and submit it for us. This is taxpayer money in action.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Guest

Very familiar with who you are talking about. The bid is for your price *after discount*. Make sure you check HUD Mortgagee Letter 2010-18 for the current pricing schedule, the days of $85 for an initial cut are over unless you want to mow an entire block. You really have to look at what you need to have, to make a profit after your overhead, to see if it is even worth it.


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## Guest

Thanks people!


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## Guest

Wow! Those prices are outa there! $30 per site, to trim shrubs?


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## Guest

Are you saying that price is high or low? The company we get the work from takes a 20% commission on that 30. So I can cut a lawn and trim shrubs (1X per season) and pocket about $75. In reality, its not a bad gig. But they have been lowering their prices a bit.


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## Guest

I usually get $75 for initial cut. $125 for oversized lawns. Then $45 for re-cuts.

I bid on extras like trimming shrubs and usually get it if I keep it under $200


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## Guest

I'm finding this thread to be fascinating. Do you guys really go flat fee for everything? Using the HUD example, you mow a lawn and charge $68. Does it matter if there is nothing to mow around or 6 trees and and a swing set? On the level or sloped? I've heard around here that the lawn business is a cutthroat business. Maybe this is why. I'm having trouble figuring how any entity or person can just say lawn cutting pays $68 and that's it.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Guest

SimonOhio said:


> Are you saying that price is high or low? The company we get the work from takes a 20% commission on that 30. So I can cut a lawn and trim shrubs (1X per season) and pocket about $75. In reality, its not a bad gig. But they have been lowering their prices a bit.


30 bucks, minus 30%...that's 21 bucks! You don't have to worry about me stealing your jobs.

I'm saying it's low, very low.


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## Guest

I have limited experience with Safeguard, but last year they gave vendors a choice, cut for $30 or $38 or lose your work. Landscape companies tried to take over the cuts. They got a good amount of them, but they do a bad job because no one is there to watch and they are not familiar with the photo process etc.

Cyprexx is more reasonable, but they only go so high on initials. Re-cuts are $45.


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## Guest

There are HUD pricing allowances on everything. Lawns less than 5,000 sqft pay $50 for the first cut of the season, and $40 thereafter usually every 2 weeks. 10,000-15,000 sqft pays $100 and $85. Nationals usually discount your invoice by 20%, and the contractor gets the rest. As we all know, there are many vacant properties and if there is volume, there is $$ to be made. I used to cover almost 1/4 of the state of Ohio, but re-tooled my operation and have gone with 2 nationals and 2 large subcontractor groups who are like a middle man. I have also limited myself to 7-8 counties. I used to send out 3-5 trucks a day and we did a large volume of grass cuts as well as every type of preservation bid work. So I know volume pays. So I could send a truck out to do 15 lawns that are usually 5,000-10,000 sqft and the truck would net about $780 after their discount. Not a bad day really.
As far as the low price for the hedge trimming, that is NOT for overgrown hedges/bushes. I will submit a bid for those, and I usually get them back. Towns and cities are cracking down on the appearance of these vacant homes, and the mortgage companies do not like the fines or the rates municipalities charge to fix violations.


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## BPWY

SimonOhio said:


> Towns and cities are cracking down on the appearance of these vacant homes, and the mortgage companies do not like the fines or the rates municipalities charge to fix violations.








My experience in my area is that the banks DO NOT care. Not even a tiny little shred.
Property going to violation..... doesn't even phase em.

I've had repeated cases of getting a grass cut, going to the property and its 3' to 5' tall. Property is also in violation with the deadline a few days away.
Turn in a bid............ month and a half goes by. I get a w/o.
RUSH to the property immediately, cure violation per bid.
Whats the point of rushing? The deadline was a month and a week ago.
I go.... and take trip photos because the grass/weeds has been cut.


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## BPWY

garyh35 said:


> I have limited experience with Safeguard, but last year they gave vendors a choice, cut for $30 or $38 or lose your work. Landscape companies tried to take over the cuts. They got a good amount of them, but they do a bad job because no one is there to watch and they are not familiar with the photo process etc.





Thats not the price they told me for 2011.
$45 or $50 regardless of the lawn size up to one acre.


I was also supposed to get some materials emailed to me........ I got nothing. 
Who knows if the price is right or not.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Thats not the price they told me for 2011.
> $45 or $50 regardless of the lawn size up to one acre.
> 
> $50.00 for one acre? No thanks... I'm not near efficient enough to make any profit on cutting an acre for $50... Are most of you guys set up with 2-3 person crews with commercial zero turn mowers, etc? Can you cut, trim, blow off the side walks, etc, take before and after photos for $50 on an acre?...or even 1/2 acre?
> 
> It seems to me that you'd almost have to be set up like a full fledged lawn service, with a good crew, good and fast equipment, and lots of lawns to turn within relative close proximity to one another in order to turn a profit...
> 
> I'm relatively new at this, and my niche has been the larger properties with 3'-6' high weeds and grass that I mow with my skidsteer brush mower.. I can get about $600-$700 for an acre, which takes me maybe 1.5-2 hours to mow, trim with weedeater, etc. But, I'm driving 40-60 miles one way pulling 10,000 lbs....that's a lot of diesel...


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## BPWY

I don't see myself mowing even half an acre here.

In this area if its not irrigated its not growing. 
This limits the size of the maintained turf areas.
20,000 is a huge residential yard, not some thing I'm going to run into a lot of.


Over 10'' (I think thats what they said) gets bid.


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## Guest

Well I tell ya what.....
If anyone in the Mn area would like to mow approx 300 yards biweekly for $25/lawn (net) up to 10,000sf. $50 net for 10=15,000sf lawns let me know:whistling

After reading all these posts I must be overpaying and more than willing to pay the above amounts for any willing party. 

:clap::laughing:


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> Well I tell ya what.....
> If anyone in the Mn area would like to mow approx 300 yards biweekly for $25/lawn (net) up to 10,000sf. $50 net for 10=15,000sf lawns let me know:whistling
> 
> After reading all these posts I must be overpaying and more than willing to pay the above amounts for any willing party.
> 
> :clap::laughing:


lol.......

Sad part is that you'll probably have some takers. You know, they will all be rich BEFORE their 1st pay period. They usually don't think about after. You know, the cost of doing biz and such.....


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## BPWY

DreamWeaver said:


> lol.......
> 
> Sad part is that you'll probably have some takers. You know, they will all be rich BEFORE their 1st pay period. They usually don't think about after. You know, the cost of doing biz and such.....





Fremont's $15 per cut less discount new friend will probably drive from IA to MN to do them. 
He will think hes making bank.


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## Guest

I mow yards for a national company. There pay is crap but it keeps me busy for a few weeks.. They pay me 20 for first cut and 15 for recuts..now this price all depends on the height and size of the yards.. Generally if I feel im losing out I will neogiate with my coordinater or put a bid in. These prices Only include a cut and a quick weedwack. If there is any isuses on the property with yard debris or high weeds of course it would be more. I dont make that much averaging 12 to 15 yards a day. Of course all my propertys are in a 5 mile radious I have no employees and no fancy equipment so it works out for me.


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## BPWY

DylanKallday said:


> I mow yards for a national company. There pay is crap but it keeps me busy for a few weeks.. They pay me 20 for first cut and 15 for recuts..now this price all depends on the height and size of the yards.. Generally if I feel im losing out I will neogiate with my coordinater or put a bid in. These prices Only include a cut and a quick weedwack. If there is any isuses on the property with yard debris or high weeds of course it would be more. I dont make that much averaging 12 to 15 yards a day. Of course all my propertys are in a 5 mile radious I have no employees and no fancy equipment so it works out for me.





Best case scenario you are grossing $225 per day. $15x15

I have to wonder if you've really sat down and figured up your costs of operating a business.

I also wonder if you have business insurance and insured/ licensed vehicles. 


I cannot see where you are going to be staying in business for long at that rate.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Best case scenario you are grossing $225 per day. $15x15
> 
> I have to wonder if you've really sat down and figured up your costs of operating a business.
> 
> I also wonder if you have business insurance and insured/ licensed vehicles.
> 
> 
> I cannot see where you are going to be staying in business for long at that rate.


Im not greedy...tho those numbers are not right. This is just something I do on the side I diff would not make it a full time gig. Thats funny the comment about the insurence since I am state licenced and insured. Even if I didnt have insurence its not a requirment in my state. The problem with this industry is there is too many lazy contractors that feel like they are worth more or are too good to perform the work at a lower rate


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## BPWY

Damn right I'm am worth more and I am not going to work for free.

I am not in this for my health, this is a business not a hobby.

I am not going to run it like its a hobby. Its unfortunate that the real business folks have hobby guys depressing the rates so badly.
Its unlikely that I'll accept grass cut rates under $50 paid to me this year. With the price of fuel etc I simply can't. 5 miles from my house isn't going to cut it for me and hundreds of other contractors. 
By short changing yourself on the rates it also hurts the rest of us that have to operate in a bigger area. The nationals now think that the rate you work for is the rate that should be used across the USA.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Damn right I'm am worth more and I am not going to work for free.
> 
> I am not in this for my health, this is a business not a hobby.
> 
> I am not going to run it like its a hobby. Its unfortunate that the real business folks have hobby guys depressing the rates so badly.
> Its unlikely that I'll accept grass cut rates under $50 paid to me this year. With the price of fuel etc I simply can't. 5 miles from my house isn't going to cut it for me and hundreds of other contractors.
> By short changing yourself on the rates it also hurts the rest of us that have to operate in a bigger area. The nationals now think that the rate you work for is the rate that should be used across the USA.


I agree with you there is a lot of nationals getting rich not offering anything more then a hasseling referal service. But at the same time as long as im working within my 5 miles and im spending small amounts on supplies and gas its really not that bad for me. I can always find ways to bill more at the property most of the time. Exp lockchanges. Large lot sizes.


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## BPWY

DylanKallday said:


> I agree with you there is a lot of nationals getting rich not offering anything more then a hasseling referal service. But at the same time as long as im working within my 5 miles and im spending small amounts on supplies and gas its really not that bad for me. I can always find ways to bill more at the property most of the time. Exp lockchanges. Large lot sizes.






I find it strange that the things that are approved for bids vary so much area to area.

Around here I couldn't get a larger lot approved to save my life.
Thaw outs, 99.9% of the time the banks just let it go. 
Flooded....... who gives a damn. 
Debris and/or weed height going into big money violation......... did some one say some thing?
Broken doors flappin in the wind for months........ whats that?
Roof leaks......... who gives a damn. etc etc etc etc etc

The level of _absolute do not care_ that I see on the properties I service will blow your mind.


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## Guest

I couldnt agree more. These properties are deteriating and the banks could careless. Ive taken pic of pic of the same properties with the same damages. I guess there waiting for the violation codes before they jump on them. Hell I went to a property the other day that had a blue fema tarp on it from 6 years ago.


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## BPWY

6 yrs????????? wow



Around here even a code violation that costs hundreds or even thousands of bux doesn't motivate them.


Parts of CO have some of the toughest code violations where a simple grass height violation can cost the property owner thousands of bux by the time its done. And yet a $300 grass cut bid will go unheeded for a month or two.
I can't tell you how many times that I'd get a grass cut w/o. I'd go and the grass/weeds are 4' to 6' tall.
The property is already posted in violation with maybe a week to the deadline. I'd take photos and provide a bid. I'd hear nothing for a month or two.
Then I'd get a w/o that states "24 hr rush, property under violation cut immediately".
I go to the property and of course its already been done by the city's favorite contractor.
Resulting in a $1000 fine, $1000 surcharge plus the contractor that cut it charges what ever he wishes and that fee is doubled going to the property owner for the handling surcharge. 
A simple grass cut could easily turn into a $3000 violation fee. When had the bank cared even a tiny little bit they could have gotten it done for $300. 
By the time discounts came off I might have gotten $165 for my drive time, couple hrs to mow it and drive time home.


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## Guest

There not as strict down here in FL. Of course it seemed alot cleaner in Denver I guess it all depends on the city codes. That is a area im not real familar with. I have run into a few yards were a crew was waiting at the property to cut. They usally are hired by the real estate company. They usally make a phone call snap a few photos and leave tho when I pull up. My guess is the realtor prob tells them to let the preservationist handle it. Sometime I get sent out to cut these small condo properties that are a no growth but still collect the billing. Better than the losy trip charge. This is just my way of returning the favor to the thiefs.


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## Guest

Dylan, 
I feel sorry for you. 
You say you are licensed? Well in Floriday there is no way you have a State License and charge those ridiculous low prices. If you would like to know how to become licensed and be a proper contractor than follow the steps below:

1
To obtain a general contractors license in Florida, you must be at least 18 years old. If you are not yet 18, you will not be able to obtain your license until you are.
2
Check to make sure that you have all required experience/education. Florida allows applicants to have 4 years of education, 4 years of experience (as long as part of it was as a foreman) or a combination of the two. As long as you have a combined 4 years of education and experience with at least one year of experience as a foreman, you should meet the experience & education requirements.
3
Prepare your application. You can get an application from the State of Florida website.
4
Request a credit report from any of the 3 major credit reporting agencies. This must be submitted with your application, so order it in advance.
5
If you are qualifying for the exam based on experience, provide prior employers with the experience portion of your application paperwork. They will need to fill out your experience and then have the document signed and notarized.
6
Obtain any special documentation that you may need. For example, if you have ever filed bankruptcy or had a judgement filed against you, you will need to produce paperwork showing those judgements have been released.
7
Fill out the financial portion of the application accurately and completely. If you are stating that you have cash on your application, you will need to provide a bank verification network.
8
Contact Pearson VUE to be fingerprinted. The State of Florida performs a background check on all those who wish to be licensed as a general contractor. Make sure you do with within 6 months of taking your test and applying for your license.
9
Prepare for your test and set up a time to take it. Professional Testing administers tests for the state of Florida. Consider buying study material or signing up for an online general contractor test preparation course to prepare for the test.
10
Go to the testing location at the designated time and place. You will have to pay a testing fee of $135. Make sure that you bring your application packet and all supporting documentation with you. Bring identification and your admittance pass. Read all instructions that were provided to you when you applied to test and make sure you have everything you need.
11
Pass the test! After you pass the test, you will have to wait for your application to be approved.
12
When you application is approved, before getting licensed, you will have to show proof of worker's compensation and general liability insurance.
13
Pay the licensing fee, which varies depending on the year in which you receive your license.


Good luck with the exams and paying for the Work Comp, paying the commercial general liability, paying the fuel, paying for your equipment, paying for your truck, paying for the depreciation on your equipment and paying for the repairs.

They are stricter in Florida than most other States. Ignorance is bliss. You ought to see all the freakin hoops we are jumping through for our Florida Mold License and we are grandfathered in......:whistling

OH I'm sure your "pulling our chains" so we have to laugh :laughing:
Jokes on us:thumbsup:


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## Guest

lol Dont feel sorry for me bro. Like I said before the lawns are something I do on the side. I never said I wanted to obtain a general contrators license. Im simply registered in the small business database under a limited liabilty company. I dont plan on specializing in general cotracting as I already have a HVAC certification with the epa. Im also certified to work with fire surpression systems. At any rate I will do what I have to do to keep a positve earnings. I also run a high volume ebay store thats been open since 2004. If you think for one second that im worried about losing accounts your wrong.


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## Guest

I see your from Iowa..Have you been to Keokuk before? Nice riverside community.


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## Guest

OH NO an HVAC guy.... They are all nuts and have a great time:clap:

Yep been to Keokuk 100's of times. Up and down the river hwy to Ft Madison or South to Quincy, IL. 

Been stuck in a boat in the "locks" on the Mississippi there too....but that wasn't fun! Army Corp was just a little pis**d...


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> OH NO an HVAC guy.... They are all nuts and have a great time:clap:
> 
> Yep been to Keokuk 100's of times. Up and down the river hwy to Ft Madison or South to Quincy, IL.
> 
> Been stuck in a boat in the "locks" on the Mississippi there too....but that wasn't fun! Army Corp was just a little pis**d...


I use to visit my grandparents across the river in Hamilton many years ago. Lots of good summers up there. Sure beats the humid weather down here. Quincy. Nauvoo Ft madison I miss all those fun little towns.


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> OH NO an HVAC guy.... They are all nuts and have a great time:clap:
> 
> Yep been to Keokuk 100's of times. Up and down the river hwy to Ft Madison or South to Quincy, IL.
> 
> Been stuck in a boat in the "locks" on the Mississippi there too....but that wasn't fun! Army Corp was just a little pis**d...


I use to visit my grandparents across the river in Hamilton many years ago. Lots of good summers up there. Sure beats the humid weather down here. Quincy. Nauvoo Ft madison I miss all those fun little towns. That hydroeletric plant is really cool looking. I can remember taking a tour of the plant one year. They have underwater tunnels running to the old locks pretty neat stuff.


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## Guest

DylanKallday said:


> I use to visit my grandparents across the river in Hamilton many years ago. Lots of good summers up there. Sure beats the humid weather down here. Quincy. Nauvoo Ft madison I miss all those fun little towns. That hydroeletric plant is really cool looking. I can remember taking a tour of the plant one year. They have underwater tunnels running to the old locks pretty neat stuff.


Seen it but never been inside or anything. I had this stupid ( I thought at the time it would be neat/cool) thought to try a trip down the river in a 26' cruiser to St Louis or maybe beyond....Not growing up on the river you learn real fast that a landlocked lake boater knows absolutely NOTHING about boating on the Big Muddy!:whistling I had an office in Quincy and one of the subs had a lot of "experience" on the river so he was going to give some "lessons". NOPE nothing turned out right except we did not sink and we did not drown...everything else went WRONG. Never again except in the dreams.

If you haven't been back to this area since the floods the last 10 years you wouldn't recognize it. West Burlington rebuilt and most of the smaller towns rebuilt. Kinda neat but sad at the same time.


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> Seen it but never been inside or anything. I had this stupid ( I thought at the time it would be neat/cool) thought to try a trip down the river in a 26' cruiser to St Louis or maybe beyond....Not growing up on the river you learn real fast that a landlocked lake boater knows absolutely NOTHING about boating on the Big Muddy!:whistling I had an office in Quincy and one of the subs had a lot of "experience" on the river so he was going to give some "lessons". NOPE nothing turned out right except we did not sink and we did not drown...everything else went WRONG. Never again except in the dreams.
> 
> If you haven't been back to this area since the floods the last 10 years you wouldn't recognize it. West Burlington rebuilt and most of the smaller towns rebuilt. Kinda neat but sad at the same time.


Are you refering to the flood of 93? I remember seeing a newspaper with a town 10ft under water. LOL about your story. It reminds me of the boat my dad bought up there and got it stuck in the unseasonably dry river at the time. All I remember was mud shooting out the back of the boat. Your right you almost need a river guide to navigate up or down that river. Now I hear people are getting fish slapped in the face. What the hell is going on?


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## Guest

DylanKallday said:


> Are you refering to the flood of 93? I remember seeing a newspaper with a town 10ft under water. LOL about your story. It reminds me of the boat my dad bought up there and got it stuck in the unseasonably dry river at the time. All I remember was mud shooting out the back of the boat. Your right you almost need a river guide to navigate up or down that river. Now I hear people are getting fish slapped in the face. What the hell is going on?


'93 was a doozie and several since then. 
I haven't heard about the fish slapping but they have been battling a carp (Chinese carp I think) that jump out of the water from the engine vibrations but I think that is more in Illinois River/Ohio River. I know its a big concern.

Anyway back to your post from BPWY the reason why the guys/gals get upset on the low GC Charge is just like this: I live 2.5 hours from Keokuk but they "MAKE" us drive there to mow and if the bank/national thinks the going rate is $15 per cut then they will tell us we all have to drive this distance for the "going rate" which the lowballers are charging. I know I can say "no" but then the work dries up. What you should be doing is charge the "going rate" (HUD rates) and put the extra $$$ in your pocket. :thumbup:


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> '93 was a doozie and several since then.
> I haven't heard about the fish slapping but they have been battling a carp (Chinese carp I think) that jump out of the water from the engine vibrations but I think that is more in Illinois River/Ohio River. I know its a big concern.
> 
> Anyway back to your post from BPWY the reason why the guys/gals get upset on the low GC Charge is just like this: I live 2.5 hours from Keokuk but they "MAKE" us drive there to mow and if the bank/national thinks the going rate is $15 per cut then they will tell us we all have to drive this distance for the "going rate" which the lowballers are charging. I know I can say "no" but then the work dries up. What you should be doing is charge the "going rate" (HUD rates) and put the extra $$$ in your pocket. :thumbup:


I really never looked at it that way. That is crazy to drive that far to mow yards. Of course I use to services hood exhaust system as far south as key west. BUT I was well taken care of for my time and travel. I clearly signed up for this national with a understanding that I would not be traveling outside of my 5 mile range. Tho they have there own set prices. I rarely stay within there pricelist standards. In this town it is not unsual to run in to 3 or 4 other lawn service trucks on any given day. Bottom line is this is a cut throat industry. That goes for alot of work in most parts of the us. The nationals are after the American dream just like you and me. How much of a differnce am I making paying taxes as apposed to the undocumented alien working at the next yard over? Probably none.


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## BPWY

Dylan think about this.


The county I live in is almost 2800 sq miles. Population of 90,000.


What is the population in the 5 mile circle you operate in?

I've got 20 miles to town. Sure its my choice to live outside of town. I wouldn't have it any other way.
But even the lawn services that live right in town are putting on a lot of miles per day too.
By accepting their screw the contractor pricing not only are you leaving a lot of profit on the table but it makes life harder for all the guys like me that live in the lower population states.

I put almost 40,000 miles on my pickup in 2010.


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## Guest

Just caught up on the thread, I won't even pull a starter cord on a mower for $15.00. Even with 2 people min wage, fuel, ins, and maintenance, I just paid them to let me mow their grass. I don't care how many yards you do in a day your losing. I hate hearing the crap about cash flow, you can't stay in business long that way. Its tough to break even, even if you can get the full HUD rate at $40 for a recut. 
If I had to do cuts for $15 I'm going to go fishing for Steelhead instead, at least I going to put some food on the table and feel good about it. GMO


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## Guest

DylanKallday said:


> I agree with you there is a lot of nationals getting rich not offering anything more then a hasseling referal service. But at the same time as long as im working within my 5 miles and im spending small amounts on supplies and gas its really not that bad for me. I can always find ways to bill more at the property most of the time. Exp lockchanges. Large lot sizes.


 
If you're happy eating the crumbs, you'll never taste the cake.

We're not trying to beat up on you, but this is the exact problem with this industry. 

Your postings speak volumes.


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## Guest

I may be interested in MN work


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## REO Pro

*Safeguard crunch*

we've been doing GC's for Safeguard for 3 years now. This year they cut their pay 30% or more. I won't bother to repeat their "reasoning." We all know it's just corporate greed. We would love to find alternatives - banks, brokers, asset management co's - but everyone we call says Safeguard and FAS have a lock on the contracts and they can't give us anything but crumbs. Safeguard has "negotiated" different rates in different states for each individual vendor which makes it hard to know if you're getting screwed a little or a lot. For example, Colorado is down to $27 for one vendor, but another in the same area is only getting $25. (Last year it was $35) Other states it's $30. Anyone want to compare notes?


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## BPWY

They told me they'd give me $50 no matter the size.



Guess how many they gave me..................... 0.0


I did end up getting two pre-foreclosure cuts out of them at HUD rate.


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## Guest

GCpro said:


> we've been doing GC's for Safeguard for 3 years now. This year they cut their pay 30% or more. I won't bother to repeat their "reasoning." We all know it's just corporate greed. We would love to find alternatives - banks, brokers, asset management co's - but everyone we call says Safeguard and FAS have a lock on the contracts and they can't give us anything but crumbs. Safeguard has "negotiated" different rates in different states for each individual vendor which makes it hard to know if you're getting screwed a little or a lot. For example, Colorado is down to $27 for one vendor, but another in the same area is only getting $25. (Last year it was $35) Other states it's $30. Anyone want to compare notes?


Around $28.00 in North Carolina.


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## Guest

I get, pre-discount, $75 per cut upto 15,000 for two clients, pay my subs $20 to $40 depending on if it's metro Denver or not.

It costs me about $4/yd for processing. Another $4/yd for overhead.

So grass is pretty good for me.

Cyprexx, Safeguard and some others, it's a loser deal. For Safeguard, you can make some good money on the P&P side so it might be worth it if your a volume company.

Also, to the orginal thread starter, you stated that companies are paying less than HUD pricing, taking a discount and keeping the rest. That's not true.

These companies are in competition with each other and are dropping their prices left and right to get more business. It might seem like they are gouging you, and they might, but it's probably not the case. They are just trying to stay competitive and profitable.


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## BPWY

I wonder how long it'll take for these dumb flucks to realize they are getting what they are paying for?



Does this grass look properly cut to ya'll????


Its a Fannie REO property.


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## BPWY

When BPWY mows a lawn it looks like this. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Guest

SimonOhio said:


> $60 in Orlando, $40 in Oshkosh and only $30 in Oakland.


Orlando, FL, ZIPskinny says $26 K median income
Oshkosh, WI $36K
Oakland, CA $33K
Their pricing method makes no sense to me. They give more in an area with lower median income.

Nationwide median income might be $45K.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> I wonder how long it'll take for these dumb flucks to realize they are getting what they are paying for?
> 
> Does this grass look properly cut to ya'll????
> 
> Its a Fannie REO property.


Paul, 

Do you bid to overseed/resod FM properties? That was a huge money maker for us in AZ till FAS lost that contract.


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> Paul,
> 
> Do you bid to overseed/resod FM properties? That was a huge money maker for us in AZ till FAS lost that contract.






I haven't.


I want one of these puppies. I think I could make a nice income reseeding for far cheaper than new sod for my local customers.
Only down side..... the buy in is $6000. OUCH   
I don't think I'll be buying one today.


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## mtmtnman

thanohano44 said:


> Paul,
> 
> Do you bid to overseed/resod FM properties? That was a huge money maker for us in AZ till FAS lost that contract.



Your chitting me right? FNMA paying to Reseed/Sod?? My average FNMA here is on the market less than 45 days from when i receive it. Many have accepted offers in 10-15 days. Wouldn't see a noticeable difference in that time. We had this offered early in the spring upon brokers approval.

_The Spring Cleanup package includes:



1. Mulch (dark, up to 2 cubic yards)
2. Weed barrier (all front beds)
3. Decorative flowers (annuals) in front viewing areas.
4. Additional neat pruning of shrubs and trees.
5. Weed removal and spraying.
6. Complete interior refresh.

*Price: $250.00 / property less 20% discount_


This was per broker approval and none of my brokers where interested.

#1. Everything here has to be watered every few days or it croaks.
#2. we have very few shrubs or beds.
#3. the properties sell to quick for it to make a difference.
#4. That's a lot of work and expense for $200 bucks!!!


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## BPWY

Some thing aint adding up.




IF your real estate market is so damn hot then WHY are there so many repos????????

A hot real estate market does not happen in a vacuum.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> Some thing aint adding up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IF your real estate market is so damn hot then WHY are there so many repos????????
> 
> A hot real estate market does not happen in a vacuum.



They are going back to the bank for 30-40% more than what FNMA ends up selling them for. In other words they are NOW priced right. Repo's are the only thing selling right now. People that are in their homes to deep and trying to sell can't get them sold and are loosing them. 0% down was the norm here for many years during the boom. Stupid move IMHO to NOT put any $$$ down on a home. No cushion if you have a downturn in the economy and you need to bail. Just had one home last week close and i did the initial services 4/15.........


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Your chitting me right? FNMA paying to Reseed/Sod?? My average FNMA here is on the market less than 45 days from when i receive it. Many have accepted offers in 10-15 days. Wouldn't see a noticeable difference in that time. We had this offered early in the spring upon brokers approval.
> 
> The Spring Cleanup package includes:
> 
> 1. Mulch (dark, up to 2 cubic yards)
> 2. Weed barrier (all front beds)
> 3. Decorative flowers (annuals) in front viewing areas.
> 4. Additional neat pruning of shrubs and trees.
> 5. Weed removal and spraying.
> 6. Complete interior refresh.
> 
> *Price: $250.00 / property less 20% discount
> 
> This was per broker approval and none of my brokers where interested.
> 
> #1. Everything here has to be watered every few days or it croaks.
> #2. we have very few shrubs or beds.
> #3. the properties sell to quick for it to make a difference.
> #4. That's a lot of work and expense for $200 bucks!!!


This was from 2004-2008 that it was great for us. We were doing almost 90% of our work as REO's. At .39 per sf for overseeding it was great. We charged separately for shrub trims, pruning and thinning out trees etc. To resod or install sod we made out with 54% of our pricing as profit after expenses, which ain't great but for REO work and volume was great!

Aerations during pre spring kept us busy during Jan-march. as well as pre emergent and post emergent applications. Most of the lawns in AZ, NV and S Utah are xeriscaped. Treating the soil and keeping it weed free to protect them from HOA fines were nice. These days, I'm getting about 38% those bids back where as it was around a 90% approval within 14 days of submitting bids. 

By far the best money that we made on REO work was the property maintenance


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> Your chitting me right? FNMA paying to Reseed/Sod?? My average FNMA here is on the market less than 45 days from when i receive it. Many have accepted offers in 10-15 days. Wouldn't see a noticeable difference in that time. We had this offered early in the spring upon brokers approval.
> 
> The Spring Cleanup package includes:
> 
> 1. Mulch (dark, up to 2 cubic yards)
> 2. Weed barrier (all front beds)
> 3. Decorative flowers (annuals) in front viewing areas.
> 4. Additional neat pruning of shrubs and trees.
> 5. Weed removal and spraying.
> 6. Complete interior refresh.
> 
> *Price: $250.00 / property less 20% discount
> 
> This was per broker approval and none of my brokers where interested.
> 
> #1. Everything here has to be watered every few days or it croaks.
> #2. we have very few shrubs or beds.
> #3. the properties sell to quick for it to make a difference.
> #4. That's a lot of work and expense for $200 bucks!!!


We've also had Fannie Mae properties sit for over 2 years. There is one that we've maintained since 2007 that's still sitting.


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## BPWY

mtmtnman said:


> They are going back to the bank for 30-40% more than what FNMA ends up selling them for. In other words they are NOW priced right. Repo's are the only thing selling right now. People that are in their homes to deep and trying to sell can't get them sold and are loosing them. 0% down was the norm here for many years during the boom. Stupid move IMHO to NOT put any $$$ down on a home. No cushion if you have a downturn in the economy and you need to bail. Just had one home last week close and i did the initial services 4/15.........







Further proof that mortgage companies are idiots.


They'd be wise to allow a short sale on the front end than go thru the expense of a foreclosure.


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## Guest

As a vendor in NH I get 75 first cut, 45 recut. 50 mi radius is a killer.

Not hud or FM just mobile homes.


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## HollandPPC

jobu said:


> As a vendor in NH I get 75 first cut, 45 recut. 50 mi radius is a killer.
> 
> Not hud or FM just mobile homes.


Sounds like good money to me compared to what I am getting.


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## Guest

Anybody wanna share some info with me?

Had an aquaintance in NC ask if we could help with some safeguard mows. 
She said she is getting 35.00 (in NC) for up to an acre and up to 12" height and bid rest. 
I have a guy who said he is willing to do them for her for 30.00. I won't be taking a cut at all. 
But, she said most lawns were 7000 to 30000....not true, 40% are over 30,000.
And she says safeguard doesn't increase pay till over an acre. My guy is to cut an acre and bid the rest.

Like I said, she is an aquaintance....but my guy is my guy you know? He works hard, has wife and 2 kids. I just want to make sure she is being upfront with him regarding the pricing. I would be upset to find she is getting increase for over .25 of acre and not giving it to him until over a full acre.


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## REO Pro

*Safeguard flat rates*

Your acquaintance is telling the truth. Safeguard pays flat rates for up to one acre. that's the only way they've done it in the 3 years we've worked with them. fyi, you're "lucky" to get $35 since that's the most they'll pay this year. Used to pay $35 across the board, but this year they came up with a crazy system that pays anywhere from $25 to $35, depending on where the contract is and whether the vendor is "preferred" or secondary.


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## Guest

Barefoot,

I think the important question should be "up till now have the lawns been maintained? " you could step into a mess! S.C. mows are fast and easy UNLESS the bamboo has grown! Never lost more blades in my life working there.


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## thanohano44

GCpro said:


> Your acquaintance is telling the truth. Safeguard pays flat rates for up to one acre. that's the only way they've done it in the 3 years we've worked with them. fyi, you're "lucky" to get $35 since that's the most they'll pay this year. Used to pay $35 across the board, but this year they came up with a crazy system that pays anywhere from $25 to $35, depending on where the contract is and whether the vendor is "preferred" or secondary.


Unbelievable!!! In guess they do it different out there. There is no way that would fly with an honest business here. Maybe the illegal aliens can work for that.


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## BamaPPC

I work for safeguard too. but I don't cut any lawns for $35. I refused. I only cut FHA lawns and I get the allowables listed in the ML2018 letter.

The CV loans are the ones they offered to me at $35. I told them I just couldn't do it. You cannot make up profits in volume. If it's a loss doing it once...it's a loss doing it 200 times.


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## Guest

BamaPPC said:


> I work for safeguard too. but I don't cut any lawns for $35. I refused. I only cut FHA lawns and I get the allowables listed in the ML2018 letter.
> 
> The CV loans are the ones they offered to me at $35. I told them I just couldn't do it. You cannot make up profits in volume. If it's a loss doing it once...it's a loss doing it 200 times.


Well said


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## david

hello
simon i dont know what national you work for but it sounds crazy to me,im paid a set amount for recuts and initial lawn depends how high weeds and stuff is but i guarantee i never do a bad one for less then 150.00,figure if they cant pay it they can try to get someone else


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## david

*hi*

i can tell ya from what ive seen safeguard and hud are the cheapest of anyone i know on their lawncare,but im sure theres plenty of companies i havnt heard of either,seems they all get cheaper every year


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## Guest

*Where does the rest fo the money go?*

Hello,

I am a P&P vendor for Safeguard and they have taken all my grass cuts which pay regular loan prices and gave them to another grass vendor that is willing toaccept the $21-$30 dollars FLAT a cut. My question is.. Where does the rest of the money that the bank/loans specifically put aside aka "allowables" go? If a FNM loan pays $105.00 for a initial cut @ 15,000 sqft and Grass Vendors only get paid $30.00 flat, where does the remaining $75.00 go?????????????????????? Does Safeguard pocket it? Does the banks know that they do? I'm just curious because it makes no sense why in all other cases and all other loans and cuts the allowables are the same and we bill the standard prices relased every year. 

Anyone have any answers??


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## Guest

We only will get the initial cuts with FHA then it goes to a grass vendor who gets $30.00 flat for a cut.... We cannot get any more cuts as we will not accept the measly rate of $21-$30.00 a recut or for 1 acre. Shame they can scam us like this whern the allowables for ALL of the loans are public and that money is set aside for the contractor. Now I am assuming Safeguard pockets the difference?


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## BamaPPC

SG will tell you they negotiated those prices to get the business from FHA/FNM/FMC. The real story...nobody but FHA and SG know for 100% sure.

But, my guess is, SG is pocketing that money and they are giving us "The Business".


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## GTX63

What he just said...


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## BPWY

BamaPPC said:


> SG will tell you they negotiated those prices to get the business from FHA/FNM/FMC. The real story...nobody but FHA and SG know for 100% sure.
> 
> But, my guess is, SG is pocketing that money and they are giving us "The Business".







Your getting "the business" alright.


The business end of the shaft.


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## Guest

BamaPPC said:


> I work for safeguard too. but I don't cut any lawns for $35. I refused. I only cut FHA lawns and I get the allowables listed in the ML2018 letter.
> 
> The CV loans are the ones they offered to me at $35. I told them I just couldn't do it. You cannot make up profits in volume. If it's a loss doing it once...it's a loss doing it 200 times.


Well said! A lose is a lose


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## Guest

d+jhomeservices said:


> i can tell ya from what ive seen safeguard and hud are the cheapest of anyone i know on their lawncare,but im sure theres plenty of companies i havnt heard of either,seems they all get cheaper every year


Yes but my equipment and maintain doesn`t so!


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## GTX63

Paying less and expecting more is the standard for the Nationals. From what we have seen this summer, for $30 the new guys are giving them what is called around here as a "Mow n Go".


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## david

*hi*

bottom line is their all cheap:whistling


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## Guest

Did a Safeguard recut for $30 today. They are getting their contract back tomorrow. Promised it would be a quick in and out cut and clean the edges. But I got to clean the last guy's edges before I could clean my own. Ended up being over 6 man hours of labor to do a recut. The grass had never been removed from the yard, so you could not mow it without first getting the old straw out. 7" of dried cut grass along the foundation and the fence line.


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## Guest

I only hug trees before I cut them down 

Post your intro.

I would only bid to do a knockdown cut on overgrown lawns-- with no clipping removal so some poor contractor had a heck of a time on the recut OR another price on initial with the clippings removed. 99% of the time it was approved for knockdown only.


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## Guest

ORtreehugger said:


> Did a Safeguard recut for $30 today. They are getting their contract back tomorrow. Promised it would be a quick in and out cut and clean the edges. But I got to clean the last guy's edges before I could clean my own. Ended up being over 6 man hours of labor to do a recut. The grass had never been removed from the yard, so you could not mow it without first getting the old straw out. 7" of dried cut grass along the foundation and the fence line.


6 hours, what was this 2 acres? You need to become more adept at throwing cut grass. My motto is cut it high, and there will be something left to cut come October instead of trip charges.... and your mowers will thank you too!


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## Guest

Well, I did as I was told to do. I cut it at 2.5", I cleaned up ALL the debris which was created. That was ALL we did.


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## Guest

GCpro said:


> Your acquaintance is telling the truth. Safeguard pays flat rates for up to one acre. that's the only way they've done it in the 3 years we've worked with them. fyi, you're "lucky" to get $35 since that's the most they'll pay this year. Used to pay $35 across the board, but this year they came up with a crazy system that pays anywhere from $25 to $35, depending on where the contract is and whether the vendor is "preferred" or secondary.


They are making a TON of money then. HUD grass prices reverted to 2008 regs this year. I get sick to my stomach knowing that these companies are making 2-3 times more for a cut than the vendor. WTF? Is there anything that can be done?


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## Guest

SimonOhio said:


> They are making a TON of money then. HUD grass prices reverted to 2008 regs this year. I get sick to my stomach knowing that these companies are making 2-3 times more for a cut than the vendor. WTF? Is there anything that can be done?


Sick isn't it? AND to think there are still people that will do it :no:

G.C. Season 2010 we averaged $93.00/yd with bid approvals and the minimum $80 recut pricing. 

G.C. Season 2011 we averaged $71.00/yd with bid approvals and the lowered minimum $50 recut pricing on 10,000sf and smaller pricing.

NOW we won't touch.


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## Guest

And had the prior vendor done their job...I wouldn't be quite so angry. But their logic is off the wall. I got 2 orders on Saturday. One was a 2.5 hour drive to the southwest. The other was 8 miles to the east of our office (that was the one we did today). Then Sunday morning I got 3 orders. One was 25 miles northwest, another was 15 miles south and the third was 30 miles south. They told us 325 properties, cut every other week. I am sure come next week the orders will be heavier, but I don't care.


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## Guest

ORtreehugger said:


> Well, I did as I was told to do. I cut it at 2.5", I cleaned up ALL the debris which was created. That was ALL we did.


I believe in doing a thorough and complete job too, but when it comes to "remove all grass clippings" especially tall grass, there are ways to take strategic before photos. Any high grass I have ever cut will usually get mulched down over time and the lawns eventually look great. But I will never spend 6 hours doing anything for $30. I would not even cut an acre for $30. I do get $30 for lots up to 5,000 sqft though.....even though the 2008 regs (ML 2010-18) say there are only 2 prices for re-cuts $80 & $100 with $25 for each additional 10,000 sqft in Ohio. We.....are getting ripped off.


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## Guest

HA HA HA!! And as I was writing that last post another order came in....only a bit over 2 hours to the northwest! WTH? Are they freaking kidding?


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## Guest

ORtreehugger said:


> HA HA HA!! And as I was writing that last post another order came in....only a bit over 2 hours to the northwest! WTH? Are they freaking kidding?


They contacted me for a grass cut region. It was too big to cover and I told them I could effectively cover certain counties, they said that would not do....its all or nothing. And I'm not going to turn into a "subber". Too much headache for a small percentage of too little pay. In the end, noone makes money. I'm glad I refused because I won't cut anything for what amounts to almost a trip charge.


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> Sick isn't it? AND to think there are still people that will do it :no:
> 
> G.C. Season 2010 we averaged $93.00/yd with bid approvals and the minimum $80 recut pricing.
> 
> G.C. Season 2011 we averaged $71.00/yd with bid approvals and the lowered minimum $50 recut pricing on 10,000sf and smaller pricing.
> 
> NOW we won't touch.


When are the other "HUD Guidelines" rates going to be negotiated as well? That will be the downfall of this industry. If they can do it with grass cuts, whats to say they can't do it with all the other pricing as well? The new application questions will be "How much do you charge for a : lock change, wint, cyd debris, etc, etc...." Lowest bidder will get the most work.


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## Guest

Makes me thing of one of the funniest movie lines ever (from one of the most stupid movies ever):
<br>


You know we’re sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn’t it?

Steve Buscemi

Armageddon – Rockhound


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## Guest

Lol.. that is the truth. Treehugger you do need to post an intro on the introductions page so we know a little info on ya 

I wake up every morning with a smile and a ton of less stress after quiting ALL service companies AND put more $$ in my pocket.


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## GTX63

Simon, wouldn't make any difference now, but it is only a grass recut for us if we have been there before. We don't honor another contractor's work and we went down that road with Safeguard before. They paid up.


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## Guest

SimonOhio said:


> They contacted me for a grass cut region. It was too big to cover and I told them I could effectively cover certain counties, they said that would not do....its all or nothing. And I'm not going to turn into a "subber". Too much headache for a small percentage of too little pay. In the end, noone makes money. I'm glad I refused because I won't cut anything for what amounts to almost a trip charge.


you know you make a very good point. I get anywere fromm $25 to $35 for a trip . these clowns want to pay the same or less to bring and mower and preform a lawn cut!


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