# Insurance???



## Guest

I am getting into p&p and was wondering what is the best insurance company out there? Some of the nationals want you to have E&O, some dont. Some even want you to buy from there insurance company list, that is bs. So i guess the question is what insurance company do you use, how are they, and with or without E&O. Do my subs need the same insurance as me?

Thanks
Tara


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## Guest

That was a sound Intro there. I'll be happy to answer any insurance questions after your intro is completed.


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## Splinterpicker

Do subs need to have insurance??? Really seriously??? You are new. Do you own a house and if sued do you want to keep it?? First Insurance is like fall protection you don't want to have it or use it ! But if you need it you want the RIGHT kind in place. A KNOWLEDGEABLE contractor insurance agent will be able to answer ALL your questions. If you don't have GL contractor insurance be sitting down. Ever since 911 the insurance industry has been REALLY harsh on new contractors and even ones in business that have never had a claim. If you have good credit own a house and such you will not need to supply the lube. Bankruptcy and other red flags are going to kill you in premiums. 
SUBS need to give you a certificate naming you as a additional insured. PERIOD and be insured at the same limits as you.

E&O this is a BS scam from the nationals but they require it. Keep in mind your best tool is a external hard drive to back everything up on, approvals for removing personal property, photos and such. In my state the property owner has 5 YES 5 years after being out of their property to file legal proceedings. LET the national approve the personal property to be removed. If they say yes remove because they don't see any personals they assume liability. We don't make enough to be hung out to dry by them. AND YES THEY WILL HANG YOU !! Their lawyers don't advise you they just will look out for their client. I hope you are starting to get the point. after being involved in 2 suits I let the nationals in TEXAS take ALL the liability on personals. You'd look at some things and think "really you consider that personals" I was told if it was EVER PURCHASED it is personal property !!


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## Guest

Nice post Splinter!

ALL contractors in P&P are so naive! The liability windows are being squeezed shut on all the Service Companies and the dodo runs downhill. 

Its not necessarily the "fault" of the P&P contractor but the lack of knowledge and this lack of knowledge WILL kill business.....It is imperative that the contractor KNOW insurance laws/policy...how many do? Very dang little and the banks/service companies prey on this.

Example: 
Carpets are now generally considered personal property by most insurance companies. So, you removed carpet because it is wet, ripped, stinky etc etc, you just removed personal property. 

Vinyl Siding on the side of the house has some holes in it from throwing a rock or weedeating while grasscutting...guess what? The mow crew gets an insurance claim to replace the entire side or the entire house worth of vinyl siding..... OR the prior ex homeowner has HO37 policy language and you get a chargeback for the siding...YOU better know how to fight this...

IF the P&P contractor does not realize there are teams of PROFESSIONALS being hired to go and find this damage so the bank/service companies can chargeback or file insurance claims on the contractor then you better go dig a hole and bury your business 6' deep.


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## Splinterpicker

If ignorence is BLISS I'm one unhappy repoman


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## Guest

splinterpicker said:


> If ignorence is BLISS I'm one unhappy repoman


:clap::clap::laughing::laughing::thumbsup:


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## Guest

splinterpicker said:


> Do subs need to have insurance??? Really seriously??? You are new. Do you own a house and if sued do you want to keep it?? First Insurance is like fall protection you don't want to have it or use it ! But if you need it you want the RIGHT kind in place. A KNOWLEDGEABLE contractor insurance agent will be able to answer ALL your questions. If you don't have GL contractor insurance be sitting down. Ever since 911 the insurance industry has been REALLY harsh on new contractors and even ones in business that have never had a claim. If you have good credit own a house and such you will not need to supply the lube. Bankruptcy and other red flags are going to kill you in premiums.
> SUBS need to give you a certificate naming you as a additional insured. PERIOD and be insured at the same limits as you.
> 
> E&O this is a BS scam from the nationals but they require it. Keep in mind your best tool is a external hard drive to back everything up on, approvals for removing personal property, photos and such. In my state the property owner has 5 YES 5 years after being out of their property to file legal proceedings. LET the national approve the personal property to be removed. If they say yes remove because they don't see any personals they assume liability. We don't make enough to be hung out to dry by them. AND YES THEY WILL HANG YOU !! Their lawyers don't advise you they just will look out for their client. I hope you are starting to get the point. after being involved in 2 suits I let the nationals in TEXAS take ALL the liability on personals. You'd look at some things and think "really you consider that personals" I was told if it was EVER PURCHASED it is personal property !!


lol,Thanks I know they need insurance just not sure if they needed e&o like I do, like my brother who has a landscaping company or my sister who has a maid service. Thanks for the advice. I have been here reading all about the nationals trying to screw the contractor. That's why I am asking about insurance comp. I have heard some insurance companies will actually have your back some will not. I plan on saving everything and everything talked about on the phone will be in a email for confirmation. As for my intro. What is the matter with it? Short and sweat. What are you looking for in it?

Thanks
Tara


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## Guest

sound p said:


> lol,Thanks I know they need insurance just not sure if they needed e&o like I do, like my brother who has a landscaping company or my sister who has a maid service. Thanks for the advice. I have been here reading all about the nationals trying to screw the contractor. That's why I am asking about insurance comp. I have heard some insurance companies will actually have your back some will not. I plan on saving everything and everything talked about on the phone will be in a email for confirmation. As for my intro. What is the matter with it? Short and sweat. What are you looking for in it?
> 
> Thanks
> Tara


Yep its short and sweet...like its not there at all :whistling

On the main page is an introductions page where you tell us about yourself, where you are located and stuff like that. :thumbsup:


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## BamaPPC

Oh man, the stories we could tell. All of us. I have a claim from a homeowner open right now. It's a BS claim, filed becuase the HO is mad that we entered his house.

House is presale, no appreciable personals were visible from outside. We're there on a lock & GC. We enter the rear door, and immediately find things like, deer heads on the wall, clothes hanging in a closet, a few small furniture items, and boxed personals in the garage.

I tell the crew to replace the lock on the rear door and let's back off. I report the property as occupied. Two weeks go by, I get an email saying we damaged the rear door, broke a door off it's hinges, and damaged an attic ladder. My response...what no diamonds missing? No Van Gosh's? We, of course, did not cause any damage to this property, and the claim is possibly worth a few hundred dollars. I don't think the HO is going to press the issue. But, it is a mark on our record.

Point is, you need to know what you are allowed to do, when to back off, know what the pitfalls are, and have insurance and a lawyer (your own lawyer). If anything looks even a little funky, it's better to back off making $100 on the property, than having it costing you $1000's. But, once you enter the property, PHOTOS PHOTOS PHOTOS.

Oh, I have so many stories I could tell about the things that have happened to us over the past 5 years. But, knock on wood, to date - no claims have been paid (I've had two filed in 5 years with over 4000 properties visited) Because I stress to everyone - don't be afraid to back off and PHOTOS PHOTOS PHOTOS. And we always follow the work order instructions concerning removal of anything from a property.

And to your question about an insurance company...I'd say, do your own research. Look them up, use the BBB, once you get a short list, then ask about experiences from the forum on the individual companies.


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## Guest

Wow talk about some rude people. The intro, I for one have not given one yet and sorry for that but it seems she wrote one, and that's more then i can say for all the people that just read the forum and don't sign up, and people like me who plan on writing one soon. She said she was getting into P&P, so do you think she is new??? Why answer a question she didn't ask. The information you gave her was great but for the comments, they are just rude. Just don't post if you have nothing to say. I thought the forum was here to help other contractors. And Fremont she did write where she is from , should she write her bra size and stuff like that. This isnt AA or NA. If you want to know someone personally you dont go to a intro, you have a conversation with them, its call intro, not discription of your live. Tara Email me and I will let you know what I have found out. Not everyone is rude here just ignore the ones that are. Give her a break. Where is you intro fremont. Sorry if this sounds rude. 

[email protected]


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## Guest

George,
LOL maybe you need to learn the decorum of the forum? Just click on the name of the poster and you can see my introduction...or better yet read back 1100+ posts and look for the 1 that is on the introduction page.

Till you post your own introduction I personally (like many others) consider you a troll... sorry I don't "mean to be rude".... 

Really George? Really?


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## GTX63

sound p said:


> I have heard some insurance companies will actually have your back some will not. Thanks
> Tara


No company has your back. No one. Someone working at one may seem nice and you think they might work there forever and help you out, but that's wishful thinking.


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## GTX63

George7380 said:


> Wow talk about some rude people.
> 
> [email protected]


I try to think I am polite and as helpful as can be to everyone. That said, I have no problem with the known jouneymen on this forumand how they handle rookie questions. If your concerned about hurt feelings and snarky replies, you really havent been in the Preservation world for very long.


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## BamaPPC

GTX63 said:


> If your concerned about hurt feelings and snarky replies, you really havent been in the Preservation world for very long.


Man speaks the truth. You gotta have tough skin to work in the P&P field. From rude contacts at the Nationals to angry homeowners there are people you have to deal with that don't give a rats patooti about your feelings.


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## Guest

sound p said:


> I am getting into p&p and was wondering what is the best insurance company out there? Some of the nationals want you to have E&O, some dont. Some even want you to buy from there insurance company list, that is bs. So i guess the question is what insurance company do you use, how are they, and with or without E&O. Do my subs need the same insurance as me?
> 
> Thanks
> Tara


Better stick to using one of these four insurance companies if you plan or already have any national accounts:

http://www.york-jersey.com/
http://www.insurance-tek.com/
http://www.leonardinsurance.com/
http://www.brunswickcompanies.com/

We had until April 2013 to comply with this. Yes, it's extortion in my book. Did I comply? Yep. Either do it or you don't work. Frankly if I would have been able to get out of this biz BEFORE I had to comply, I certainly would have. Didn't work that way tho. So before you go and spend $$ on an insurance premium that is cheaper, better look into these instead -- chances are you will have to switch over and it will cost you more in the long run.


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## Guest

Fremont, Upon looking back at your posts, I see no intro on your first post (9/30/09 #1153). I have very thick skin and dont care how people talk to me, but I am very respectful and treat people the way I would like to be treated. I will talk to someone who hasn't introduce them self and not think of them as a "troll". I have been reading from this site for a while and love it. There will always be a couple of rude people that don't know how to talk to someone. "All p&p contractors are naive" that is like saying that only steers and queers come from Iowa. People come here to learn, not be treated like some "troll". As for the way the journeyman answer rookie questions that's fine answer them or don't but no need to be rude or hurt anybodies feeling because we are not working or talking to the nations or at a homeowners house,we are on the computer trying to teach and learn. If its about not introducing herself then ask her as if you wanted to be asked. Its common courtesy. And this troll says hello.


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## BBJP

George7380 said:


> Fremont, Upon looking back at your posts, I see no intro on your first post (9/30/09 #1153). I have very thick skin and dont care how people talk to me, but I am very respectful and treat people the way I would like to be treated. I will talk to someone who hasn't introduce them self and not think of them as a "troll". I have been reading from this site for a while and love it. There will always be a couple of rude people that don't know how to talk to someone. "All p&p contractors are naive" that is like saying that only steers and queers come from Iowa. People come here to learn, not be treated like some "troll". As for the way the journeyman answer rookie questions that's fine answer them or don't but no need to be rude or hurt anybodies feeling because we are not working or talking to the nations or at a homeowners house,we are on the computer trying to teach and learn. If its about not introducing herself then ask her as if you wanted to be asked. Its common courtesy. And this troll says hello.


George,

You sound like an inexperienced FNG. You're acting like a troll. Fremont is someone who knows the ins and outs of insurance and PnP. He has more experience in this profession than most on this forum. 

From my perspective, your skin is too thin for this thankless business and it will swallow you whole. For what it's worth, jump right in and touch base with us here in 90 days. Tell your clients that they're rude and didn't train you enough. Tell them you know better.


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## Guest

The funny thing is:.... I have no where been rude. That is not me. To say that All P&P contractors are naive? MY BAD is should have said 99%. 

I also clarified my point...as I stated its not the contractors fault. Its the industries fault and the "we will get you mentality"...you will learn. Hopefully with little cases and not big ones. 

As far as introductions....YEP mine was back in 2009. This forum was a lot lot stricter then as far as intro's go. 

Go and dig your diamonds now


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## Guest

Then call me Jotunn....I think you have a little mud on your nose. Tara emailed me before, my wife spoke to her about things she needed to know from what we have learned and our friends. They both said that you guys were acting like she was a idiot not worthy of your time. She was very turned off by it and probably won't write on the forum, just watch like a troll. Why get hassled at home? I sure FremontREO knows alot. Just what he said had nothing to do with Tara asked, he just went off in a rant that should go somewhere else. If he knows the answer to her question then why not answer it?


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## BBJP

George7380 said:


> Then call me Jotunn....I think you have a little mud on your nose. Tara emailed me before, my wife spoke to her about things she needed to know from what we have learned and our friends. They both said that you guys were acting like she was a idiot not worthy of your time. She was very turned off by it and probably won't write on the forum, just watch like a troll. Why get hassled at home? I sure FremontREO knows alot. Just what he said had nothing to do with Tara asked, he just went off in a rant that should go somewhere else. If he knows the answer to her question then why not answer it?


Mud on my nose? Lol, you will find a d--k in your mouth and up your a-- from these nationals with your current attitude. Go on mister know it all. Jump in the game. Don't say I/we didn't warn you. Be the next FNG to get it good. Lol, my 9 years of experience have taught me nothing.


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## Dirtywhiteboy

BBJP said:


> Mud on my nose? Lol, you will find a d--k in your mouth and up your a-- from these nationals with your current attitude. Go on mister know it all. Jump in the game. Don't say I/we didn't warn you. Be the next FNG to get it good. Lol, my 9 years of experience have taught me nothing.


OUCH


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## Guest

It's important to write an intro for many reasons. Forum members need to understand your background, state, experience, etc. and what you'll be doing precisely, such as REO or P&P, initials or recurring, bid work or the whole nine yards, in order to give an intelligent response. 

I got into the business knowing absolutely nothing about the way it operated. The only reason I haven't lost my butt is because of a great support network that extends from my family to extremely helpful members like Fremont, and my belief that God has been watching out for me and protected me from some (not all) hard lessons and led me through others.

I thought Fremont was a jerk the first time I posted on this forum (for evidence refer to post #2 of mine). He's helped me tremendously since then and I honestly haven't been able to give much in return, aside from maybe letting him in on what's hip and groovy in this day and age. 

Sound p:
What we need to know is what do you yourself know. The insurance requirement is not easily explained (nor comprehended because it appears to blatantly violate logic and ethics at times). 

You'll need E&O from a short list of preselected companies just to play ball. But you'll also need CGL, along with WC if you plan on having employees (W-2 or not). You can't go the easy way out and 1099 your "subs" if they are really employees. I personally went ahead and got bonded in order to help diversify (trashout-like jobs for investors, residents, etc).


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## Guest

sound p said:


> I am getting into p&p and was wondering what is the best insurance company out there? Some of the nationals want you to have E&O, some dont. Some even want you to buy from there insurance company list, that is bs. So i guess the question is what insurance company do you use, how are they, and with or without E&O. Do my subs need the same insurance as me?
> 
> Thanks
> Tara


Tara,

Some companies tell you who to buy from because they have a specific policy that other companies won't write. They are still competitive.

The pricing is usually around .01% of sales for a combined liability and e&o. So if your going gross 300k, your policy might be around 3k. If you under-estimate, they ask for more after your year end audit. Likewise, you can get a refund too.

Do you need e&o and liability? Depends on the client. My suggestion is get a cheapo handyman policy for $600 per year so you can say you have insurance, and a big company will tell you to upgrade to another better policy if you need it. No reason to get it if you dont have a national contract.

For subs, yes, they need the above policy. They will bitch so offer to withhold $50 ($600) per month and pay it for them.


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## reoguys

What about E&O ... we've never had it but we're rethinking that one. Does everyone in this business have E&O? Who's a good carrier?


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## Guest

reoguys said:


> What about E&O ... we've never had it but we're rethinking that one. Does everyone in this business have E&O? Who's a good carrier?


Someone posted on the previous page the three or four companies "preferred" by nationals. York Jersey is one of the more popular ones. 

Research the reality involved with having E&O with a pre-selected company. Talk with your insurance agent about this situation, and their take on it. 

I'll also give you some good advice that an old fart from this forum gave me one time. Set up your business as an LLC. Have multiple LLC's if you do a decent amount of work outside of P&P (like residential/commercial lawn care). When the nationals file a claim on your E&O (and they will), you can open up a new LLC since your revised premiums would explode with a claim on E&O.

I didn't articulate it as well as the old forum troll would, but hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to get across.


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## Guest

foothillsco said:


> My suggestion is get a cheapo handyman policy for $600 per year so you can say you have insurance, and a big company will tell you to upgrade to another better policy if you need it. No reason to get it if you dont have a national contract.


I respectfully disagree with this comment. If the insurer discovers that you gave misleading information in order to get a cheaper premium (i.e. declaring your business operation as "handyman" vs. "property preservation") then you will likely have a claim denied; or worse, you will get your policy cancelled and your name will be blackballed and you will find it very difficult to get another insurance policy in the future.


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## Guest

reoguys said:


> What about E&O ... we've never had it but we're rethinking that one. Does everyone in this business have E&O? Who's a good carrier?


E&O insurance is also known as Professional Liability insurance and it provides you with coverage for claims made against you because of professional advice or consulting services; the Error part being wrong advice you might give and the Omissions part being not giving or forgetting to give full advice. You won't be able to get this insurance unless you are a professional in your field; for example, a doctor giving medical advice or an architect giving architectural advice. A barber won't be able to get lawyer's E&O insurance even if they give you off-the-cuff legal advice while cutting your hair, because they don't have the credentials; they didn't pass the bar and they don't have a university diploma hanging on the wall. 

There is confusion regarding whether E&O insurance is required in Property Preservation or not. To be quite honest, I don't really see the need for it, but perhaps someone here can enlighten me as to a more detailed job description and if there are special professional credentials that are required for certain aspects of the job.

If you are being asked for E&O insurance on certain jobs, you need to look at what the job is and what the professional exposure is. If you are only doing clean up work but the job is actually asbestos abatement, then you need to have the correct environmental abatement credentials in order to carry out that part of the job. If you are going to sub that part of the job out to a professional abatement contractor, then that sub provides the E&O cover. You only need to be added as an Additional Insured on the insurance certificate they provide you.


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## Guest

Astrix.

OK here goes 

The P&P world is different in the world of contracting. The P&P contractor is 1/3 contractor, 1/3 inspector and 1/3 clerical. 

The reason why the E&O is required by most national service companies is best given in an example:

Contractor goes to the property to complete a lockchange. While at property the contractor is required to notify the service company of any damages visible. The contractor was only hired to "change locks" and does a so/so job of inspection of home and misses some mold on the floor joists seen from the basement floor. This mold grows from the bank/service company not restoring electric so the dehumidifier runs to keep the moisture down and the next contractor that enters the home DOES notice the mold....

The original contractor ends up paying the entire cost of a remediation project for missing this mold on the initial damage report. The service companies KNOW that NO CGL policy will pay since the original contractor was not hired for Mold SO.....the next policy they can subrogate to is the E&O since the contractor Omitted the fact there was mold. 

NOW where I have the problem with the E&O claims (for that matter the CGL claims) is that these claims are being submitted for reimbursment up to 5 years after the fact from the Service Companies. 

As an insurance broker and an insurance agent I think this is total B.S. In real world contracting a homeowner may not be happy with someones job BUT they normally tell the contractor who has the right to make it good or hire someone to fix the part that is wrong OR it goes to court. Not in the P&P world---they hire someone else, never tell the original contractor and then turn a claim in on the Insurance Policy. No arbitration opportunities NOR is there an opportunity for the Contractors Insurance Policy to inspect/adjust the damages since they were already fixed. 

Example today: I went to a home to adjust for mold in the basement for a Service Company (hired by a national) since the Real Estate Agent reported mold (it had mushrooms up 4' high on the walls) so I completed an assessment/adjustment. NOW this adjustment is going to go back against the contractor that completed a mold treatment on 2/12/12. Poor chap is going to be charged $36,000 for the cost of remediation and the rebuild. Wonder what actually happened in this home from February till June? Don't know BUT maybe it wasn't this bad back in February? Doesn't matter though...his name is attached to it now. 

Welcome to the world of P&P folks.


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## Guest

Astrix said:


> I respectfully disagree with this comment. If the insurer discovers that you gave misleading information in order to get a cheaper premium (i.e. declaring your business operation as "handyman" vs. "property preservation") then you will likely have a claim denied; or worse, you will get your policy cancelled and your name will be blackballed and you will find it very difficult to get another insurance policy in the future.


Now I get to add to Astrix's correct comments 

Foothills said to buy a cheap handymans policy instead of a P&P commercial general liablity. 

Let me add this:

1) A normal insurance policy has Rights of Settlement Clauses that allow the insurance company to dictate how a loss will be covered...ie..repaired, replaced or denied for example BUT a P&P policy specifically written for the Preservation Contractor WAIVES this clause. This means that if that nasty 2nd bidder contractor makes a repair (with approval obviously from service company) to a property that you should have done then a P&P commercial General Liability policy would pay VS an everyday CGL won't due to the insurance company would enact the ROS clause.

2) ISO recently combined the Fraud and Misrepresentation clause's. This means NOW if you make a misrepresentation on an insurance application or loss you have now committed a fraud. This is a game changer on the simple "white lie" on insurance policies that can carry serious consequences.


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## Guest

Hi FremontREO,

My apologies for the delay in responding. To be honest, I don't usually visit this section of CT and had forgotten this thread.

Thank you for explaining the various hats that Property Preservation contractors wear. It makes sense to me now that E&O insurance is required; not for the 1/3 construction contracting work, but for the 1/3 inspection work. An error or omission can be made in the inspection report, i.e. should have discovered and reported mould, but missed it. The expectation is that the P&P inspector has the extra professional expertise required to detect mould, over and above any other regular Joe's knowledge of mould.

I read your comments regarding the claims practice of service companies with disappointment. I have no comments to add to that other than to respectfully suggest that this is a problem within your industry and not a fault of insurers. 

Insurers can only step in once a claim is reported. If a plaintiff service company waits till one day before the statute of limitations expires, plus doesn't give the defendant a chance to resolve the situation but instead goes directly to their insurers; well, the insurance companies have no control over that. 

I am sure there are no easy answers but the first question that comes to my mind is why is there no Mediation/Arbitration Clause in the contracts that P&P workers have with these service companies whereby they are contractually given the opportunity to rectify a potential claim first?

I'm going to bow out of the discussion now because I do not feel qualified to comment specifically on your industry. My clients are mainly general contractors doing ICI work. My earlier comments were added to this thread because I was concerned regarding Misrepresentation (which you confirmed), and I had the general question regarding the need for E&O (which you have answered for me - thank you.)


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## Guest

Astrix,

BINGO you hit the nail on the head concerning the P&P business...if you really want to call this a business...sorry everyone but I sometimes wonder if this is really a legitimate business when basically everything is out of our control. 

Arbitration and/or Mediation is in the contracts BUT its basically a lost cause since you have to travel to "their" site (normal though) and only use an arbitrator of "their" choice. After using this clause I have found its a stacked deck. 

In the "real world" I could request arbitration and nominate my arbitrator and the service companies company would nominate their arbitrator (you and I know this but most contractors don't) and be judged by the umpire. 

I didn't mean to imply the insurance companies are at fault here...they are not. As you stated their isn't much that can be done when the Service Companies fix the work and then months later turn the claim in...no inspections can be done then. Its a one way street basically. Others have said its "smoking mirrors". Either way I would never purchase a basic CGL policy that wasn't designed for P&P nor go without an E&O Policy.


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## BPWY

FremontREO said:


> I didn't mean to imply the insurance companies are at fault here...they are not. As you stated their isn't much that can be done when the Service Companies fix the work and then months later turn the claim in...no inspections can be done then. Its a one way street basically. Others have said its "smoking mirrors". Either way I would never purchase a basic CGL policy that wasn't designed for P&P nor go without an E&O Policy.






I'm really surprised that ins companies play ball in stacked deck, uneven field situation like this. 
After being blind sided once by these unscrupulous P&P companies I'm surprised they haven't 
changed the rules to benefit the ins companies.


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## Guest

I wrote that I was going to bow out of the discussion, but here I am back again with an additional two cents.

FremontREO will be better qualified to confirm or contest my comments, but from my experience in the insurance industry, the way I see it is like this:

I've read in these forums that there are a limited number of national service companies that rule over the P&P world. They have gone into agreements with a handful of insurers whereby the P&P workers are required to buy insurance from one of these few insurers if they want to get a contract with the service company. Therefore, in essence, you have a few service companies running a monopoly and a few insurers who are guaranteed a large number of policies. Selling more policies is a good deal for the insurers who are privy to being on a service company's short list.

The insurers don't care if they pay out on claims. They will raise their premiums accordingly to make up for increased claims pay-outs. The one who is on the losing side of this triangle is the worker. He has no choice and he is the one who has to pay the high insurance premiums.

I see it as a positive that the insurers are agreeing to pay these claims. The other alternative is that the claim is denied. Then the worker is left holding the bag with a denied claim that they themselves will then have to reimburse the service company for. It's a puppet show and it appears that the service companies are the ones pulling all the strings.


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## Guest

Maybe I can help a bit.

The Client (actual property deed holder) is concerned about lawsuits. They require the nationals to have massive liability insurance. 

The insurance is priced by risk (this is a high risk enterprise) High risk equals expensive.

So the nationals require US to carry heavy insurance- and they want to make damned sure their business does not get impacted when WE screw up.

So they make us carry things like E&O- its pretty useless for most of the PP work- though for repairs it can be applicable.)

Banks love someone else being liable, because every buyer, code enforcement agency and HOA is draining their vaults.... if they can pass that liability off- they will. And the Nationals pass it on to US- after all- we're the boots on the ground.

And now you know why some of those repair orders are vague- it absolves THEM for liability- and without written confirmation of the grey areas- its OUR FAULT in court.


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## BPWY

In other words its all about screwing the contractor over. 

Life as usual.


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## Jo wanna

this seems to be worth checking out coveradvantage.ca


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## Jo wanna

duplicate post


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