# LPS fiasco lawyers are getting involved



## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Signed up with LPS went and got a new office, hired 3 new processors and brought my brother in from the field, began recruiting contractors. 

Basically I invested thousands made long term commitments in order better serve my client.

Our agreement was a certain discount, no penalties for 90 days, a 30 order cap in Illinois, Indiana, and Kentucky to get us started. The very day that we completed online vendor training they started sending orders that night. Monday the following week we had over 200 orders and they began calling looking for results. The orders just kept coming until at 400 in Illinois, 50 in Indiana, and around 60 in Kentucky I called and asked for a reprieve. We tried cutting back our coverage area to lighten the load. They said we were "backpedaling" I reminded them of our ORIGINAL agreement of a 30 order cap. The situation has since deteriorated to a point where we are on HOLD in all 3 states. They are ignoring the agreement we made and demanding we get 60 orders turned in by Monday.

They are sending emails stating that I do not communicate positively? I just don't tell them what they want to hear and I constantly remind them of the agreement we made. I have told them repeatedly that the 125 orders remaining are their problem not ours. We did not ask for them therefore I will not take responsibility for poor performance.

I have contacted an attorney that specializes in this type of law. My brother is an attorney and good enough for some things but to take on a giant like this I want a specialist.

I am hearing that they breached the agreement and that they could owe us for our startup costs since they didn't hold up their end of the deal.


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

Was the 30 order cap in writing?


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## kninegirl (Jun 29, 2012)

I was wondering if your agreement was in writing as well..


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Any promises, agreements, or discussions made over the phone to any National never existed. Never happened.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Was it p&p work only?????????? 

Do you want to continue working for them?????

I have never had a national/regional send back the signed contract. They always have you sign it and they never return it for a reason.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

My brother is an attorney and we we document everything. All agreements are in writing and we basically have in house council.

This situation just spiraled out of control so fast it's crazy.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Did you agree to 30 per state or 30 total for all states. I'm no regional or anything even close to that but when I did a lot of p&p work my 3 crews did 30 orders per day no problem. I would think a company with coverage over state lines could handle at least 200 orders per day.

How many crews do you have that complete orders for you daily???


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

I do 30 a day in one city! Lawn cuts anyway.....


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

wmhlc said:


> Did you agree to 30 per state or 30 total for all states. I'm no regional or anything even close to that but when I did a lot of p&p work my 3 crews did 30 orders per day no problem. I would think a company with coverage over state lines could handle at least 200 orders per day.
> 
> How many crews do you have that complete orders for you daily???



We have several crews and an office full of processors. It's harder to get the work out and uploaded then it is to get it done in the field most days. Here lately it's been both.

Doing grass cuts and stuff like that is a chore when dealing with the geography of Southern Illinois.

We probably can handle close to 200 orders a day if given a chance to work our way up to that point. We can't handle just having 400 orders dumped on us. The other thing is we don't WANT to handle it because that wasn't our agreement. We agreed to 30 orders per state with a ramp up as we maintained compliance.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Sorry for your dillema. Been there done that. Opened new office in S.C. and day 1 got 375 work orders that were up to 6 months past due-- you can imagine how tall the weeds were (hellava way to learn what bamboo can do). Expanded into Midwest and within 30 days received 1100 winterizes in 4 States. 

If you want to retain your business just keep on trucking as fast as you can and upload as you go. Yes your going to have damages that you will eat the cost on & yes you will have chargebacks but you keep on keeping on and hope/pray that you dont go broke in the process.


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

What the point of guys wanting to be regionals???

I had 7 crews at one point and we billed out over 2million in sales, I really cut back and now I have 3 crews and my profit is almost double.


We now only work for 1 national and locals. My guys work at least 40hrs a week and they love it because I even pay them more than I did in the past.

Im new to game going on my 11th year so maybe I just not understand or have the drive to have the biggest stick on the playground.

So what's the reason for being a regional????????


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

In the "older days" it was so much different than todays environment. Personnaly I wouldn't even dream of starting those type of expansions today. There just isn't enough profit anylonger. I was at a contractors get-together the other day and the subject of P&O came up...the majority opinion was to have an avg 40% profit. I don't think that is possible on 90% of the P&P jobs anylonger.


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

40% is VERY GOOD no matter what business you are in in this economy. Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to accomplish.


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## JFMURFY (Sep 16, 2012)

Doberman Properties said:


> My brother is an attorney and we we document everything. All agreements are in writing and we basically have in house council.
> 
> This situation just spiraled out of control so fast it's crazy.


 
Problem is your dealing with "Clerks" who read the blue laminated cards given to them. They know nothing of the "Contract" you executed with LPS. I would suggest sending an email to Lee Kennedy & Hugh Harris explaining the situation. 
I would think that if they never executed the same contact and returned a signed copy to you...does a contract exist?
Escalate the situation into the upper management level. The "clerks" are just doing their time until 5pm.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

JFMURFY said:


> Problem is your dealing with "Clerks" who read the blue laminated cards given to them. They know nothing of the "Contract" you executed with LPS. I would suggest sending an email to Lee Kennedy & Hugh Harris explaining the situation.
> I would think that if they never executed the same contact and returned a signed copy to you...does a contract exist?
> Escalate the situation into the upper management level. The "clerks" are just doing their time until 5pm.


I am not dealing with clerks I am dealing with management I am not sure how "UPPER" they are.

I have the executed originals in my filing cabinet I made sure they were sent back via fed ex before I ever ran a job. Documentation is not an issue.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

The bottom line here is I am no longer interested in being a regional. Not sure I was ever sold on the idea but after they decimated our company I am sure I don't want any one working for me that I can't get eyeball to eyeball with whenever I need to.

I am going to change to a landscaping company type of model and run actual employees in multiple trucks and try work within 2 hours of the office. If LPS wants to keep us that would be ok if not then I guess I need a new client until I can get established with some local contracts.

I am burnt out. Tired of the headaches. I would seriously rather be in a truck everyday than deal with the BS I have been fighting.

They ONLY care about their agenda and I care about ours.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Doberman Properties said:


> The bottom line here is I am no longer interested in being a regional. Not sure I was ever sold on the idea but after they decimated our company I am sure I don't want any one working for me that I can't get eyeball to eyeball with whenever I need to.
> 
> I am going to change to a landscaping company type of model and run actual employees in multiple trucks and try work within 2 hours of the office. If LPS wants to keep us that would be ok if not then I guess I need a new client until I can get established with some local contracts.
> 
> ...




Another one sees the light. Best of luck.



A piece of advice on that front............... consult with a lawyer on how to work this and put it into place on every job. 
Have a way to receive payment in full when the jobs are completed in your hand before you start.
Especially on one time landscape type of jobs.

I've got jacked worse this year than any other year.


One job for a one time friend I got screwed out of $1200. Another guy $100. etc etc.
I'm not sure how to avoid this, I'll be doing some legal council myself this winter along with contracts.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Met with the Attorney today and lost two more sub contractors since Friday. They are dropping like crazy. They hate BATF trash outs and post and stores and i don't think any of them can handle the volume. 

I have no desire to replace them because I will just end up right back here. Dealing with contractors quitting and flaking out is like playing WHAK-A-MOLE!


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

Doberman Properties said:


> Met with the Attorney today and lost two more sub contractors since Friday. They are dropping like crazy. They hate BATF trash outs and post and stores and i don't think any of them can handle the volume.
> 
> I have no desire to replace them because I will just end up right back here. Dealing with contractors quitting and flaking out is like playing WHAK-A-MOLE!


Its too bad you dont cover the metro Detroit area, we do post and store's and batf trashouts frequently, as well as 80 to 100 re-cuts weekly for a local LPS contractor. Everyone is happy! :thumbsup:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

JDRM said:


> Its too bad you dont cover the metro Detroit area, we do post and store's and batf trashouts frequently, as well as 80 to 100 re-cuts weekly for a local LPS contractor. Everyone is happy! :thumbsup:


This is how it was before. I have no clue why it all fell apart but the reality is I am fed up with the nonsense. I am looking to lower my stress level.

I don't mind doing these things or paying ahead to my guys if they are local guys and I can QC their work so I know I won't face charge backs.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Referring to an earlier thread you posted about how to handle changes in your business; sometimes you really don't have to do anything. Life just kind of takes care of it for you.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Referring to an earlier thread you posted about how to handle changes in your business; sometimes you really don't have to do anything. Life just kind of takes care of it for you.



For sure the good and the bad come my way just like anyone else. I am just tired of contractors flaking out and clients calling pressuring. We were on top of everything 45 days ago and in that time it's gone down hill. The ONLY thing that changed is adding LPS.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Doberman Properties said:


> For sure the good and the bad come my way just like anyone else. I am just tired of contractors flaking out and clients calling pressuring. We were on top of everything 45 days ago and in that time it's gone down hill. The ONLY thing that changed is adding LPS.


 
Could be worse, you could have added Safeguard . If I worked for you and would told me "Congrats, I'm sending you SG work, I'd flake on you too.....:sad: 

I used to do some LPS stuff and didn't mind the BATF stuff. If the "want to be regional" wouldn't have screwed me out of money, I'd probably still be doing the work.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> Could be worse, you could have added Safeguard . If I worked for you and would told me "Congrats, I'm sending you SG work, I'd flake on you too.....:sad:
> 
> I used to do some LPS stuff and didn't mind the BATF stuff. If the "want to be regional" wouldn't have screwed me out of money, I'd probably still be doing the work.


I pay my guys and try to supply their locks and as much support as we can. There just isn't that much money to start with and when you start splitting it things go from bad to worse.

The problem I see is that the Nationals want 3 companies in every state that offer entire state coverage. There is no way to cover the entire state without a network of contractors. This inevitably leads to the problems that all regionals and mid size companies have. 

They need to divide states by regions and hire contractors in those regions. I NEVER wanted to cover more than a two hour radius from where we live. My motivation for doing what I did was that like so many others I was screwed by regionals. My thoughts were that we could become a regional and treat people right. Many times the guys flake out before they run their first order.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

I know Linda feels your pain.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

BPWY said:


> I know Linda feels your pain.


Yes Linda and I have spoke about this. She has been through much of the same stuff.


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## APlusPPGroup (Apr 14, 2012)

Yes, I have. And I still do. It's truly incredible how many flakes are out there.

Linda


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