# Five Brothers



## STARBABY

Anyone seeing any work from Wells Fargo account yet? I was hopping to see an increase of work due to this new account,but seen any work yet!


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## Trey9007

A few weeks ago I inquired about WF orders. Was told they were only getting 2 states initially, and that I would here more once they knew something more. I think the 2 states were WI & MI.


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## JDRM

Yes, I am getting some in MI. :thumbsup:


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## UnitedFieldInspections

Nothing here in NY,NY,CT,CA


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## JDRM

They only got Mi & Wi.


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## PropPresPro

WF WO's from CL are still pouring in heavily here. . .new & reoccurring


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## thanohano44

Yes I am. I love me some FiveBros work orders.


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## JDRM

thanohano44 said:


> Yes I am. I love me some FiveBros work orders.


Ur getting WF in HI Troy?


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## Craigslist Hack

They sent me a deduction notification today. I replied back that they settled up with me a month ago so they will have to deduct some other poor sap. 

What a bunch of crooks! They think they can charge you back for reassigning an order. That's nutts guys.


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## BPWY

Craigslist Hack said:


> They sent me a deduction notification today. I replied back that they settled up with me a month ago so they will have to deduct some other poor sap.
> 
> What a bunch of crooks! They think they can charge you back for reassigning an order. That's nutts guys.





The only time SG tried that on me was the same thing. I had 0.0 outstanding balance with them. 
They tried to hit me for $900.

I told them they needed to try scamming some one else because they were so inept at scamming me they were failing badly. 

Eventually my vendor manager found out about it and put a stop to it. 
She begged me to do more jobs for her. I did, they never tried it again.


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## GTX63

Lol, we got an email from Safeguard a few weeks ago for some backcharge from 2010. They were sorry it had come to this but I had left them no choice. We havent done business with them for years. I asked them where I should send the check but haven't yet recieved their reply.


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## GTX63

That story brought back a memory of a former competitor whom we were always on good terms with. They had winterized a 6 unit apartment building for those yohos, and another contractor dewinterized the place without heat, in January. I was told they received an order to re-winterize on a friday evening, after 6, but didn't send anyone out until the following day. By that time the pipes and several water heaters were damaged. This poor guy wrote them a check for $4300 to cover damages, _just so he would continue to recieve work from them!!!_


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## ctquietcorner

I know in Eastern CT we just got 7 previous Five Brothers properties and all of the wints that were "just done" at the beginning of November are all frozen. Who ever did the wints were just idiots. The toilets that are supposed to have the RV antifreeze are frozen solid hmm wonder how that happened. 
So we bid $500 each property to thaw, rewint best as possible, and bid damages. Would love for the client to go after Five Brothers since they screwed my husband out of money that we are still fighting for.


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## PropPresPro

ctquietcorner said:


> . . .So we bid $500 each property to thaw, rewint best as possible, and bid damages.



Do you cover Montana? 
At that price, I can afford to pay travel charges too!:whistling2:


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## ctquietcorner

PropPresPro said:


> Do you cover Montana?
> At that price, I can afford to pay travel charges too!:whistling2:


No just Northeast CT and 7 towns in MA. We just got three back for the bid approval. 
He always makes money on unthawing the properties. Most of the properties are 1000sq ranches so they take no time to thaw with his trash can heaters. Usually 3 hours total to thaw, pcr, and wint it. While the property is thawing he gets all the wint stuff ready to go and takes all the pcr pictures and documents all issues with the property. By the time he is done with that the toilets are thawed and he starts with them. He has a really great system down.


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## BRADSConst

ctquietcorner said:


> No just Northeast CT and 7 towns in MA. We just got three back for the bid approval.
> He always makes money on unthawing the properties. Most of the properties are 1000sq ranches so they take no time to thaw with his trash can heaters. Usually 3 hours total to thaw, pcr, and wint it. While the property is thawing he gets all the wint stuff ready to go and takes all the pcr pictures and documents all issues with the property. By the time he is done with that the toilets are thawed and he starts with them. He has a really great system down.


 Please don't take this the wrong way, but the bidding part of your system is broken. You should be around double that just for the thawing then add in the wint and other work.

Spend the money and get a Repairbase, XactPRM or some other estimating software. It will pay for itself on the first thaw.

Even if you are making good money at that price, your client is making a killing off your hard work. Don't leave the money on the table.

Perhaps the Montana boys (PropPresPro and MTMTNMAN) would throw a few numbers out for you. They know how to bid them and not leave anything on the table.........


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## RichR

Numbers per Repair Base Bid Software. (May be different for different regions)
Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 1000 S.F. $797.51
Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 1600 S.F. $1036.79
Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 2400 S.F. $1196.39
Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 3500 S.F. $1674.95


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## ctquietcorner

BRADSConst said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but the bidding part of your system is broken. You should be around double that just for the thawing then add in the wint and other work.
> 
> Spend the money and get a Repairbase, XactPRM or some other estimating software. It will pay for itself on the first thaw.
> 
> Even if you are making good money at that price, your client is making a killing off your hard work. Don't leave the money on the table.
> 
> Perhaps the Montana boys (PropPresPro and MTMTNMAN) would throw a few numbers out for you. They know how to bid them and not leave anything on the table.........


 
Not taking it the wrong way at all. I'll look into one of those programs thanks. Curious how long others take to thaw a house? 
Most of the ones he's done are dry heat so only has to thaw the domestic water. There was one last year he did that the realtor screwed up and froze it by not keeping oil in the tank. He got $2100 for that one, but it was a wet system and a good size house.


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## BRADSConst

ctquietcorner said:


> Not taking it the wrong way at all. I'll look into one of those programs thanks. Curious how long others take to thaw a house?
> Most of the ones he's done are dry heat so only has to thaw the domestic water. There was one last year he did that the realtor screwed up and froze it by not keeping oil in the tank. He got $2100 for that one, but it was a wet system and a good size house.


I've been told by a MTMTNMAN that the best way to thaw a house is to go first thing in the morning and heat it up to about 80 deg. Throw a little salt in the toilet bowl and tank and then leave. Come back the next day and everything is all thawed out and ready for the wint. :thumbsup:

Screwing around with heat guns on frozen PVC traps is for the birds. :thumbdown:

DISCLAIMER: I've only thawed one house. I did it before I knew any better and wasted the better part of the day using torches on frozen galvanized pipes  and one way too small convection propane heater.


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## BRADSConst

RichR said:


> Numbers per Repair Base Bid Software. (May be different for different regions)
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 1000 S.F. $797.51
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 1600 S.F. $1036.79
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 2400 S.F. $1196.39
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 3500 S.F. $1674.95


These are just the thawing prices correct? Is this dry or wet system or does that not matter? 

I believe that wint and other extras (soiled toilets, etc) is above and beyond this.


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## GTX63

$750 is about what we bill for showing up. Yes, sf, # of bathrooms, etc will figure into the price. That is a bread and butter tract house, 2 guys, half a day. We do very few for regionals as I have exhausted all patience with their bid after the fact and pricing must reflect industry standards baloney. Adjusting invoices to $200 isn't an industry standard, it is the racket standard.


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## RichR

BRADSConst said:


> These are just the thawing prices correct? Is this dry or wet system or does that not matter?
> 
> I believe that wint and other extras (soiled toilets, etc) is above and beyond this.


Repair base doesn't have options for heat type or # of stories, both of which effect the thawing difficulties.
For me this would be your basic Dry heat home. 
Badly soiled(Filled) toilets and the wint itself would be extra.
Just my $.02


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## thanohano44

RichR said:


> Numbers per Repair Base Bid Software. (May be different for different regions)
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 1000 S.F. $797.51
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 1600 S.F. $1036.79
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 2400 S.F. $1196.39
> Thaw Frozen Plumbing up to - 3500 S.F. $1674.95



Thanks Rich.


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## hammerhead

speaking of thawing I just got a wo to winterize a pool today??? Think they missed the boat by a few weeks on that one.


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## Wannabe

Im missing something here.... There is no way you can thaw a frozen home in 3 hrs. Unless someone is only thawing the traps. No Way the piping can thaw in 3 hrs unless its just slush and not froze.


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## PropPresPro

Wannabe said:


> Im missing something here.... There is no way you can thaw a frozen home in 3 hrs. Unless someone is only thawing the traps. No Way the piping can thaw in 3 hrs unless its just slush and not froze.


Yep, if frozen solid (like many here are right now) it will take at least 12 hours to thaw, and that does not include the frozen WH, that could take 2 days or more to thaw. If you think you are going to thaw a frozen solid toilet quickly with direct heat, be prepared to replace the cracked toilet too, same thing with copper lines.

Heat the house up to 80-90 degrees then shut the heaters down, get some air movers in there, open all the cabinet doors, and let the place set overnight. If it isn't thawed by morning, do it again & it will most likely be when you return.


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## GTX63

Had one yesterday. Broker was inside the house and said it sounded like a 2x4 hitting the floor. Flea Circus winterization company didn't open or drain an outside water faucet that ran from the 2nd floor inside the wall down to the walkout. He just happened to be there to take some pics and heard the pipe split open. 

Slush jobs aren't much different to me, you still have to warm the house up. You still have to go thru your procedures. Heat the structure, not just the inside air. Prep and follow up should be SOP, but you don't need a full crew on site 24/7. 

Regionals will send 24 hour rush or due by end of business today type orders; we stopped taking those. $200 before discount is for Lou Newbie falling asleep on the kitchen floor with a cig in his mouth next to a overheated salamander.


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## BPWY

Wannabe said:


> Im missing something here.... There is no way you can thaw a frozen home in 3 hrs. Unless someone is only thawing the traps. No Way the piping can thaw in 3 hrs unless its just slush and not froze.






Thats pretty much what I thought. 


And then the frozen water heater..... 2 days is generous unless you can turn it on.


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## Wannabe

A Couple pics of our setup. 24 hours running and its thawed. This is the small system. MtMtnMn has seen the type of system our large 1 is...Military surplus 500,000BTU that will heat a 3500sf home to 90 in 6 hours.


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## RichR

Wannabe said:


> A Couple pics of our setup. 24 hours running and its thawed. This is the small system. MtMtnMn has seen the type of system our large 1 is...Military surplus 500,000BTU that will heat a 3500sf home to 90 in 6 hours.


Great setup and definitely the safest way to do the job properly. Problem is there is no way @ $8k the average P&P guy can pay that off with the prices the Nats are paying. Be nice to find a used one from a guy going belly up! Tell me you don't leave that baby unattended!:blink:

Seeing some used ones on Ebay!


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## BPWY

RichR said:


> Great setup and definitely the safest way to do the job properly. Problem is there is no way @ $8k the average P&P guy can pay that off with the prices the Nats are paying. Be nice to find a used one from a guy going belly up! Tell me you don't leave that baby unattended!:blink:
> 
> Seeing some used ones on Ebay!





The reason for that is the guys that are doing it right are not doing it for $500, thaw, wint, check for damages and roll. 


3 hours to do a thaw? That person should write a book, they'll make more from that than they will working.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> The reason for that is the guys that are doing it right are not doing it for $500, thaw, wint, check for damages and roll.
> 
> 
> 3 hours to do a thaw? That person should write a book, they'll make more from that than they will working.



Don't give anyone ideas about writing another PP book.


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## Wannabe

No we dont leave unattended. We charge $.65/sf for thaw and $.10/sf for monitoring 24 hr a day. We lose $ on monitoring but most houses we chain it down and only sit with it at night. We did have a rental get stolen once when the Pipefitter delivered and hooked up before we arrived (they were 2 hrs early) & when we got there all that remained was the piping and regulator.

Other contractors here charge a CF rate of $.26-.30/cf for thaws.


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## ctquietcorner

Wannabe said:


> Im missing something here.... There is no way you can thaw a frozen home in 3 hrs. Unless someone is only thawing the traps. No Way the piping can thaw in 3 hrs unless its just slush and not froze.


It is a really good possibility that they were not frozen solid. Again there were just domestic water not the heating system as they were all electric heated and they were ranches one floor and the basement. 

The one wet system did take a long to time to thaw and that particular one did not include the winterization or anything just to thaw the property.


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## Wannabe

Im just dense I guess.. NO COMMENTS from the cheering section 

Why thaw a house if your not going to winterize it? I presume the heat was off, thus the thaw, so it will just freeze again..

Then again I would believe a Work Order to thaw and NOT winterize in this P&P business...


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## JDRM

Wannabe said:


> Im just dense I guess.. NO COMMENTS from the cheering section
> 
> Why thaw a house if your not going to winterize it? I presume the heat was off, thus the thaw, so it will just freeze again..
> 
> Then again I would believe a Work Order to thaw and NOT winterize in this P&P business...


Why install a dehumidifier with the power off???:whistling2::whistling2:

We have done it several times..


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## Field Audit Services LLC

JDRM said:


> Why install a dehumidifier with the power off???:whistling2::whistling2:
> 
> We have done it several times..


Came to one like that just yesterday. As if no power wasn't bad enough, to put the icing on the cake, the drain hose went into a sink with no drain, just opens to the inside of the cabinet. :blink: Of course with no power, it really doesn't matter...much...I suppose. :icon_wink:

*EDIT*: And to be fair, the property I went to was NOT a siblings property.


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## thanohano44

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Came to one like that just yesterday. As if no power wasn't bad enough, to put the icing on the cake, the drain hose went into a sink with no drain, just opens to the inside of the cabinet. :blink: Of course with no power, it really doesn't matter...much...I suppose. :icon_wink:
> 
> *EDIT*: And to be fair, the property I went to was NOT a siblings property.



Not yet anyways.


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## Craigslist Hack

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Came to one like that just yesterday. As if no power wasn't bad enough, to put the icing on the cake, the drain hose went into a sink with no drain, just opens to the inside of the cabinet. :blink: Of course with no power, it really doesn't matter...much...I suppose. :icon_wink:
> 
> *EDIT*: And to be fair, the property I went to was NOT a siblings property.


Realistically why waste the hose or time if there is no power? 

We have been pumping a property out every couple of weeks for months. The sump pumps both work all we do is drop a generator and go run a few other orders than come back and get the Genny. it's about $650.00 each trip. we have told them 20 times that the power needs turned on.

Oh well. Not my problem.


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## Gypsos

My personal favorite is a former grow house we do maintenance on. All copper has been removed. The drywall was ripped out to get at the copper. The ceiling has holes in it too. The well has had all metal removed outside the well casing. 

It has had new carpet installed and a completely new A/C system inside and out. It stills needs to be rewired from scratch and have all the drywall repaired and painted, and two boarded windows need to be replaced. 

The icing on the cake is the broker cannot even list the house because it was hollowed out underneath by the growers and the foundation has been compromised.


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## Trey9007

WOW...I just had to comment on these 'Obamaphone' comments. I didn't realize people believed that kind of BS. Here are some facts you guys should keep in mind.



> The Lifeline program originated in 1984, *during the administration of Ronald Reagan*; it was expanded in 1996, during the administration of Bill Clinton; *and its first cellular provider service (SafeLink Wireless) was launched by TracFone in 2008, during the administration of George W. Bush*. All of these milestones were passed prior to the advent of the Obama administration.


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## Gypsos

Trey9007 said:


> WOW...I just had to comment on these 'Obamaphone' comments. I didn't realize people believed that kind of BS. Here are some facts you guys should keep in mind.


I saw no such comments in this thread. And I believe any negative comments you might hear about the Life line program being called the Obamaphone is because it was used as a tool to get people to vote for him. It was billed as yet another free thing you could have if he was elected.


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## Trey9007

Gypsos said:


> I saw no such comments in this thread. And I believe any negative comments you might hear about the Life line program being called the Obamaphone is because it was used as a tool to get people to vote for him. It was billed as yet another free thing you could have if he was elected.


Hmmm....Are you sure it wasnt used as a tool to get people NOT to vote for him. It was billed, by his opposition, as yet another free thing you could have if he was elected.


I never saw any pro Obama ad saying vote for Obama, because he will get you a free phone. However, I saw many anti-Obama ads and many interviews, saying dont vote for him because he is giving away free phones. Remeber, it was an anti-Obama ad that started the term Obamaphone and made the Obamaphone lady famous. 

Bottom line is government phones were being handed out before Obama was elected. So theres really no way, good or bad, that he should get credit for it.


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## RichR

Trey9007 said:


> Hmmm....Are you sure it wasnt used as a tool to get people NOT to vote for him. It was billed, by his opposition, as yet another free thing you could have if he was elected.
> 
> 
> I never saw any pro Obama ad saying vote for Obama, because he will get you a free phone. However, I saw many anti-Obama ads and many interviews, saying dont vote for him because he is giving away free phones. Remeber, it was an anti-Obama ad that started the term Obamaphone and made the Obamaphone lady famous.
> 
> Bottom line is government phones were being handed out before Obama was elected. So theres really no way, good or bad, that he should get credit for it.


 
He still sucks A**


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## PropPresPro

Alright folks, fun's over!
:gunsmilie::gunsmilie::gunsmilie:
Let's get back on topic.


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