# Has anyone taken on a regional alone



## mike2153 (Dec 11, 2012)

In a situation where invoices are being denied for one thing when i show them they pull some crap out. They decided after handing in a couple hundred lawns they are know charging 5 bucks for non time stamped which wasn't in the TOS i signed. They can go look at the properties i'm doing the work. I picked up 50+ more before this happened because a vendor was sending in fake pictures, i was told i would be paid initial services on these (i have the phone recording my phone auto says this call will be recorded. Im told to contact the state reps which are about as usefully a 3 year old that still craps there pants. 

Instead of lien (which i can't in my state unless over $500) i was going to sue for the ones they cheated me out of and over 250 cuts they cut by $5 bucks and 50+ cleans they cut by 5 bucks. It honestly isn't the money as much as screwing me. I have given them the choice add the money back in and i will sign a new tos or i am suing for each property singly. Which means about 300 lawsuits plus court cost, am i being a jerk? Or am i doing what others would do. Tear it apart if you want i take criticism very well or is it time to hit these mf'ers i mean we are only talking 1500 bucks maybe a little more but its the point. The maj judges in Pa are not friendly to things like this 

I don't know how to do a poll but your guys insight would be helpful sorry for spelling errors I'm tired working 17+ hr days and lied to day in and day out.

Whats kinda funny is Dorworth? Lawyers contacted me 2 weeks ago about said company we are know getting sent out before even initials but I'm sure they are charging the government for initials. Any help and sorry for book


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

mike2153 said:


> In a situation where invoices are being denied for one thing when i show them they pull some crap out. They decided after handing in a couple hundred lawns they are know charging 5 bucks for non time stamped which wasn't in the TOS i signed. They can go look at the properties i'm doing the work. I picked up 50+ more before this happened because a vendor was sending in fake pictures, i was told i would be paid initial services on these (i have the phone recording my phone auto says this call will be recorded. Im told to contact the state reps which are about as usefully a 3 year old that still craps there pants.
> 
> Instead of lien (which i can't in my state unless over $500) i was going to sue for the ones they cheated me out of and over 250 cuts they cut by $5 bucks and 50+ cleans they cut by 5 bucks. It honestly isn't the money as much as screwing me. I have given them the choice add the money back in and i will sign a new tos or i am suing for each property singly. Which means about 300 lawsuits plus court cost, am i being a jerk? Or am i doing what others would do. Tear it apart if you want i take criticism very well or is it time to hit these mf'ers i mean we are only talking 1500 bucks maybe a little more but its the point. The maj judges in Pa are not friendly to things like this
> 
> ...


I don't know about your state or your laws. I wouldn't do 300 lawsuits. I'd have my attorney go after the whole thing under a breach of contract lawsuit, or something like it, IF I WERE TO PROCEED DOWN THAT PATH.

What I'd most likely do is stop wasting my time on a deadbeat client and cut my losses. If finances left me no choice, I'd start jacking my bids, and bid every damn thing I could and tell them its over the allowable.

With all the chitty regionals out there, I honestly cant understand why anyone takes a chance trying to find a good one.......


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## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

*Pa District Court*



mike2153 said:


> In a situation where invoices are being denied for one thing when i show them they pull some crap out. They decided after handing in a couple hundred lawns they are know charging 5 bucks for non time stamped which wasn't in the TOS i signed. They can go look at the properties i'm doing the work. I picked up 50+ more before this happened because a vendor was sending in fake pictures, i was told i would be paid initial services on these (i have the phone recording my phone auto says this call will be recorded. Im told to contact the state reps which are about as usefully a 3 year old that still craps there pants.
> 
> Instead of lien (which i can't in my state unless over $500) i was going to sue for the ones they cheated me out of and over 250 cuts they cut by $5 bucks and 50+ cleans they cut by 5 bucks. It honestly isn't the money as much as screwing me. I have given them the choice add the money back in and i will sign a new tos or i am suing for each property singly. Which means about 300 lawsuits plus court cost, am i being a jerk? Or am i doing what others would do. Tear it apart if you want i take criticism very well or is it time to hit these mf'ers i mean we are only talking 1500 bucks maybe a little more but its the point. The maj judges in Pa are not friendly to things like this
> 
> ...


That's how I did it. District Court Pa. grass cut not paid 35 bucks.
Sued for late charges, and punitive damages
Awarded default judgment with punitive damages and court costs.

35 dollar grass cut turned into 240 judgment waited 30 days.
Filed writ of execution on office at Virginia dr. Fort Washington Pa.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*First thing I would do is*

send them a 10 day demand letter, stating that after the ten day period discounts will not be extended, and a 10% late fee will be applied. If you have a 20% discount this will be a 37% increase in the invoice. 

List your unpaid invoices by Magisterial District Court with the court numbers and express your intent to seek a judgement in each individual court. Also let them know you will be naming their client in the actions. 

When a company sees what the three different cost choices are, they usually just pay you.


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## cover2 (Apr 3, 2013)

I would love to know how many charge backs were issued back in the days of sending actual hard copies of pictures. Would be too much work to go back and dig through boxes of photographs for both the contractor and the regional/national. Just curious.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Cut your losses and move on. In the end you might get a little money but if you spent the same time and energy pursuing new business you would get 3 times as much money.

You have already earned the money once now you have to earn it again. It's a waste of energy. Go earn real money elsewhere.


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## G 3 (May 3, 2015)

What is your time worth? With all the work that will be needed to sue them, is it financially beneficial going to court for $1500 and wasting a few days, or can you make more money by doing other real work? I would think that for $1500, you're better off not suing. 

I would draft a letter stating that you have intentions on taking this to court, and suing them for breach of contract. Make sure you have the TOS that you signed, as well as copies of your invoices and their payment list, and include that in the package you send to them. I would also name THEIR client as a possible defendant, and make sure they get the same copy of information. See where that leads you.

In the end, if it was me, I would send the package, but drop the issue if it doesn't lead to a settlement. Just too much work going to court to fight this. That's my O.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

cover2 said:


> I would love to know how many charge backs were issued back in the days of sending actual hard copies of pictures. Would be too much work to go back and dig through boxes of photographs for both the contractor and the regional/national. Just curious.


 NONE. Never heard of a chargeback till 2007/8 +/-.


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## cover2 (Apr 3, 2013)

Wannabe said:


> NONE. Never heard of a chargeback till 2007/8 +/-.


Makes ya wonder doesn't it??


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

cover2 said:


> Makes ya wonder doesn't it??


It is interesting but you have to remember back then the industry wasn't filled with hacks trying to beat the system.


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## tiggerslandscaping (Nov 3, 2015)

Has anyone had experience with Aim Your Way?


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> It is interesting but you have to remember back then the industry wasn't filled with hacks trying to beat the system.



Yes, hacks are trying to beat the system, but who's fault is it really? When these companies are paying pennies and giving you more volume then you know what to do with, corners are going to be cut. Pay a fair wage and get decent results. I know you don't have to accept the work if you don't like the pricing, but people just starting out in this biz are looking at it very differently than you and me, and I'm sure we don't see eye to eye on some issues either. There will always be someone accepting the lower pricing and "find" a way to make it work.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

tiggerslandscaping said:


> Has anyone had experience with Aim Your Way?



I do some work with them now, they aren't terrible, but a pain. Their pricing is decent since you can call from site to get approvals and if you can't complete the work for the amount you can negotiate or just tell them no. Only crappy part is getting paid. They require an invoice on every order even though you have already been given an approval on an order. They are very specific and payment is only once a month. So payments are between 45-60 days usually. Once you get used to their dumb system and loopholes they they don't tell you when your hired, it's not so bad.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> Yes, hacks are trying to beat the system, but who's fault is it really? When these companies are paying pennies and giving you more volume then you know what to do with, corners are going to be cut. Pay a fair wage and get decent results. I know you don't have to accept the work if you don't like the pricing, but people just starting out in this biz are looking at it very differently than you and me, and I'm sure we don't see eye to eye on some issues either. There will always be someone accepting the lower pricing and "find" a way to make it work.



Who's fault is it really? The guy on the job cutting corners. These companies only lower the prices to what they can get it done for. If no one did a wint for less than 250 that would be the wint price. As for the volume? If you get paid right you don't need crazy volume.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Who's fault is it really? The guy on the job cutting corners. These companies only lower the prices to what they can get it done for. If no one did a wint for less than 250 that would be the wint price. As for the volume? If you get paid right you don't need crazy volume.



I agree, but what I need to make a living is different from what you need and some newbie that has made nothing other than unemployment for the past 6 months needs. These numbers are all different. It also matters what part of the country you live. I don't think the price for a wint should be the same in lets say Charlotte NC as Long Island NY. Cost of living is significantly less and the pricing across the board isn't very different for different parts of the country. The average home in Long Island is about $600k while the same size home in Charlotte is $200k. A wint in Charlotte should only pay $100 if Long Island is getting $250, at least on the scale of cost of living. 

I'm not looking for every job to be a home run, but I am looking to make a profit on EVERY job I complete. There is no reason why there should be loosers to make up for the winners. If I can't make a profit to make it worth doing the job, I don't want to complete the job. Volume doesn't make up for loosing money on ANY job.


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## NickT (Nov 2, 2015)

madxtreme01 said:


> I agree, but what I need to make a living is different from what you need and some newbie that has made nothing other than unemployment for the past 6 months needs. These numbers are all different. It also matters what part of the country you live. I don't think the price for a wint should be the same in lets say Charlotte NC as Long Island NY. Cost of living is significantly less and the pricing across the board isn't very different for different parts of the country. The average home in Long Island is about $600k while the same size home in Charlotte is $200k. A wint in Charlotte should only pay $100 if Long Island is getting $250, at least on the scale of cost of living.
> 
> I'm not looking for every job to be a home run, but I am looking to make a profit on EVERY job I complete. There is no reason why there should be loosers to make up for the winners. If I can't make a profit to make it worth doing the job, I don't want to complete the job. Volume doesn't make up for loosing money on ANY job.


Extremely good point. The cost of living should absolutely affect the pay scale, it does for every other line of work! In a perfect world, every order would always be profitable, but that will never happen, because there is always going to be someone willing to take a hit on an order for the "promise" of additional volume/areas. From my experience the nationals go right past "what have you done for me lately" and just straight up don't even note anything good, only negative comments in vendors files. Once again, this is only from my experience prior, with a larger national, so please take it as such.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

madxtreme01 said:


> The average home in Long Island is about $600k while the same size home in Charlotte is $200k. A wint in Charlotte should only pay $100 if Long Island is getting $250, at least on the scale of cost of living.


With this line of thinking minimum wage on Long Island would be $35 hr and your New Jersey $3 inspection would pay about 75 cents here in the Midwest. Mr. Hack is correct, what ever the lowest someone is willing to do it for, that will be the price.

In ANY business, one key to success is setting yourself apart from the rest. Do something different. Do something better. Mr Hack has explained in detail his great success with windows by not selling cheap. Lots of good advice in those threads. Don't be just like the rest, fighting for a bigger piece of the pie. Go make a bigger pie.


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## AceVentura (Sep 6, 2015)

*NJ Supply < Demand*



safeguard dropout said:


> With this line of thinking minimum wage on Long Island would be $35 hr and your New Jersey $3 inspection would pay about 75 cents here in the Midwest. Mr. Hack is correct, what ever the lowest someone is willing to do it for, that will be the price.
> 
> In ANY business, one key to success is setting yourself apart from the rest. Do something different. Do something better. Mr Hack has explained in detail his great success with windows by not selling cheap. Lots of good advice in those threads. Don't be just like the rest, fighting for a bigger piece of the pie. Go make a bigger pie.


 
Just adding 2 more cents.

In New Jersey a $3 inspection defies the simple law of economics = Supply & Demand

http://www.housingwire.com/articles...d-answers-on-states-zombie-foreclosure-crisis


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> I agree, but what I need to make a living is different from what you need and some newbie that has made nothing other than unemployment for the past 6 months needs. These numbers are all different. It also matters what part of the country you live. I don't think the price for a wint should be the same in lets say Charlotte NC as Long Island NY. Cost of living is significantly less and the pricing across the board isn't very different for different parts of the country. The average home in Long Island is about $600k while the same size home in Charlotte is $200k. A wint in Charlotte should only pay $100 if Long Island is getting $250, at least on the scale of cost of living.
> 
> I'm not looking for every job to be a home run, but I am looking to make a profit on EVERY job I complete. There is no reason why there should be loosers to make up for the winners. If I can't make a profit to make it worth doing the job, I don't want to complete the job. Volume doesn't make up for loosing money on ANY job.


I'm not doing this to make a living. I can make a living much much easier. I am doing this not to get by but to get ahead. We almost never lose money on a job and if we do it's usually our fault through missing something on a bid or some such omission. 

I don't care what you charge or what some guy on unemployment charges or what your cost of living is versus mine. I don't work at a factory no one sets my wage I do. You should re-read your post and ask yourself if you are an employer or an employee? 

I don't want volume if I did I would be in 20-30 states it's not that hard you just call up MCS and say make us active in Utah. DONE! Guys act like they are really good at this because some desperate national gives them work orders in Ankle Scratch Arkansas. It only takes a phone call you don't ever even have to show results. I know a guy who is active in 13 states and he has had 5 different "money men" come in and cash flow his can't fail business. Each investor bails and loses their nest egg in the process. 

It's this low margin high volume mentality that ruins the pricing, the quality of work in the field, and availability of qualified contractors.

The nationals do not care one bit about quality. They only care about coverage and turn around. If you do the best work in the world and I cover 5 states they will prioritize my company over yours. All these guys that claim their work speaks for itself are in the wrong business. If they want to excel in P&P they need to say "we cover more territory and we turn them around faster than anyone" BOOM they automatically rise to the top of every Nationals priority list. 

You can drywall over painters tape all day! You can put cardboard over a hole in a roof then throw shingles over it and no one will care. As long as it looks good in pictures you are good to go.


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I'm not doing this to make a living. I can make a living much much easier. I am doing this not to get by but to get ahead. We almost never lose money on a job and if we do it's usually our fault through missing something on a bid or some such omission.
> 
> I don't care what you charge or what some guy on unemployment charges or what your cost of living is versus mine. I don't work at a factory no one sets my wage I do. You should re-read your post and ask yourself if you are an employer or an employee?
> 
> ...


Cardboard does kinda resemble Plywood..from a distance that is!!!


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I'm not doing this to make a living. I can make a living much much easier. I am doing this not to get by but to get ahead. We almost never lose money on a job and if we do it's usually our fault through missing something on a bid or some such omission.
> 
> I don't care what you charge or what some guy on unemployment charges or what your cost of living is versus mine. I don't work at a factory no one sets my wage I do. You should re-read your post and ask yourself if you are an employer or an employee?
> 
> ...


You're missing the point of what I said. The discussion was on a regional which I put in a similar category as a national, only a smaller scale. So with that mentality and only that mentality the work offered by these companies should have a fair wage. The reason that the numbers are so low is that as they kept hiring more and more contractors they got more and more greedy trying to find ways to make more money. So the fees went down, and they will continue to go down until they can't find anyone to cover the territory. Then they will start to go back up. As far as not caring about what it costs to make a profit here, or what I personally need to earn a living, that all ties directly into what I said about different areas need to have a different wage for the services requested. If I picked up my family and moved to a southern state on the east coast other than southern florida, I would be living much more comfortably as compared to my cost of living here in Central NJ. The price lists from the nationals don't change, the volume usually doesn't change, the only thing that changes is my quality of life. Minimum wage is not a good example since it is not a career job. I would guarantee that a store manager for lets say Best Buy has a different salary in NJ as they do in AL


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> You're missing the point of what I said. The discussion was on a regional which I put in a similar category as a national, only a smaller scale. So with that mentality and only that mentality the work offered by these companies should have a fair wage. The reason that the numbers are so low is that as they kept hiring more and more contractors they got more and more greedy trying to find ways to make more money. So the fees went down, and they will continue to go down until they can't find anyone to cover the territory. Then they will start to go back up. As far as not caring about what it costs to make a profit here, or what I personally need to earn a living, that all ties directly into what I said about different areas need to have a different wage for the services requested. If I picked up my family and moved to a southern state on the east coast other than southern florida, I would be living much more comfortably as compared to my cost of living here in Central NJ. The price lists from the nationals don't change, the volume usually doesn't change, the only thing that changes is my quality of life. Minimum wage is not a good example since it is not a career job. I would guarantee that a store manager for lets say Best Buy has a different salary in NJ as they do in AL


No you are missing the point. It goes right past you in fact. If you want to make more charge more. It doesn't matter where you live. It's called capitalism or a free market system. You may not be able to work for a regional or a national? Who cares if it's not profitable why waste your time. 

If a regional paid more guess what would happen? A sub regional would pop up. I've seen it first hand. There are companies subbing out regional work all over the US. That's right a fourth tier after the bank, the national, the regional, the sub regional, then you have BOTG. Ask anyone that been around for a while we have all seen it. 

You have to worry about you. No need to worry about what some guy on unemployment will do a job for. Or how profitable a guy in Alabama would be doing work for what you get in Jersey. You have to get what you need to make your business work where you live. This doesn't mean changing how the Nationals pay or how many layers they add to their pay system. Don't lose sleep over how poorly your competition does their field work. Just do you being you! If you need 300.00 for a grass cut charge 300.00 and don't apologize. If some other guy can do it for less let him. 

I've said this before and I'll say it again "you aren't free until you learn to say no" you don't need all the work. Just the good work.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> No you are missing the point. It goes right past you in fact. If you want to make more charge more. It doesn't matter where you live. It's called capitalism or a free market system. You may not be able to work for a regional or a national? Who cares if it's not profitable why waste your time.
> 
> If a regional paid more guess what would happen? A sub regional would pop up. I've seen it first hand. There are companies subbing out regional work all over the US. That's right a fourth tier after the bank, the national, the regional, the sub regional, then you have BOTG. Ask anyone that been around for a while we have all seen it.
> 
> ...


If you want to make change, do what works for you, making change doesn't mean saying no to the regional or national. All it means is that they will find someone else and you loose out on the work. If you can find enough work from other sources then great, but those of us that work on foreclosures solely go through this fight daily and taking 20% off of the top of what we would normally charge to get work, then so be it as long as you are making a profit.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Craigslist Hack said:


> No you are missing the point. It goes right past you in fact. If you want to make more charge more. It doesn't matter where you live. It's called capitalism or a free market system. You may not be able to work for a regional or a national? Who cares if it's not profitable why waste your time.
> 
> If a regional paid more guess what would happen? A sub regional would pop up. I've seen it first hand. There are companies subbing out regional work all over the US. That's right a fourth tier after the bank, the national, the regional, the sub regional, then you have BOTG. Ask anyone that been around for a while we have all seen it.
> 
> ...


If you want to make change, do what works for you, making change doesn't mean saying no to the regional or national. All it means is that they will find someone else and you loose out on the work. If you can find enough work from other sources then great, but those of us that work on foreclosures solely go through this fight daily and taking 20% off of the top of what we would normally charge to get work, then so be it as long as you are making a profit.


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## tiggerslandscaping (Nov 3, 2015)

Ok so Safeguard called about snow removal..........Who the H#@% plows a driveway for 30 bucks base???????? That is such an insanely low number to start the money dance with. Obviously someone is cutting some BIG corners and screwing the pricing up for every one else. There is absolutely no way to even believe you could get any driveway plowed for 30 bucks with just the cost of insurance and gas. Than payroll, equipment maintenance/repair. Even with volume the drive time will kill you.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

tiggerslandscaping said:


> Ok so Safeguard called about snow removal..........Who the H#@% plows a driveway for 30 bucks base????????


They expect you to have work in the area and absorb it.
Each job by itself should pay for itself.
Go over to the concrete truck across the street dumping cement for a driveway and ask them if they can pour their leftovers into some forms in your backyard for cost.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> If you want to make change, do what works for you, making change doesn't mean saying no to the regional or national. All it means is that they will find someone else and you loose out on the work. If you can find enough work from other sources then great, but those of us that work on foreclosures solely go through this fight daily and taking 20% off of the top of what we would normally charge to get work, then so be it as long as you are making a profit.



So basically you are saying you want nationals and regionals to pay better because that's where you get your work? 

I want twin supermodels to share my bed with me every night. 

If you continue to get your work from nationals and regionals your headaches will only multiply. If you break away and do your own thing you can still get that work on occasion but only when you want it. 

As for losing out on work I'm losing out on a decent job right now. I bid a rehab for the bank and my competition bid the same rehab. I bid a true rehab and they bid new carpet in one bedroom fresh paint and new cabinet hardware. 

They got the job. I hope they make money. I want them to stay in business so I know who my competition is and what kind of work they do. There is enough work to go around I don't need it all.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> they will find someone else and you loose out on the work. .........those of us that work on foreclosures solely go through this fight daily ......taking 20% off of the top of what we would normally charge


I think I found your problem, other than arguing over and not LISTENING to the advice you keep getting on this forum.

Let me reiterate YOUR words again. Maybe it will start to sink in......



madxtreme01 said:


> they will find someone else and you loose out on the work. .........those of us that work on foreclosures solely go through this fight daily ......taking 20% off of the top of what we would normally charge


 Not trying to be a dick. Hell, I used to be you years ago. Just imagine if you listened to the great advice you are getting, you could be adding 20% on top of what you normally charge instead of taking it off. You also wouldn't give two chits about someone else getting the work. It is possible....


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

BRADSConst said:


> I think I found your problem, other than arguing over and not LISTENING to the advice you keep getting on this forum.
> 
> Let me reiterate YOUR words again. Maybe it will start to sink in......
> 
> ...



Unfortunately working on foreclosures for the broker or realtor isn't as easy for me as it might be for you. I've been contacting them left and right for 2 years now and have only been asked to do estimates. Which I do, but never get the job. The nationals are paying my bills until the work direct comes in. I don't want to do renovations for people. I prefer to work on vacant homes.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I'm not doing this to make a living. I can make a living much much easier. I am doing this not to get by but to get ahead. We almost never lose money on a job and if we do it's usually our fault through missing something on a bid or some such omission.
> 
> I don't care what you charge or what some guy on unemployment charges or what your cost of living is versus mine. I don't work at a factory no one sets my wage I do. You should re-read your post and ask yourself if you are an employer or an employee?
> 
> ...





Preach it brother.


I nominate this post for post of the week. Maybe even post of the month!!!!!!


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## NCnewbie (Aug 6, 2014)

Zuse said:


> Craigslist Hack said:
> 
> 
> > You can drywall over painters tape all day! You can put cardboard over a hole in a roof then throw shingles over it and no one will care. As long as it looks good in pictures you are good to go.
> ...


Somebody somewhere read this and the only thing they got out of it was a way to dramatically increase profit margins. "Man I can make the reduced bid approval roof repair work now"


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