# POC Problems and More



## AW27 (May 5, 2013)

I'm trying to keep calm and sane here, but since I've expanded (as a sub) from being just a grass cut contractor to doing all aspects of P&P (even REO for Safeguard), I've had terrible luck with call backs, getting my debris removal counts lowered, extensions denied even though I get a 60 CYD trashout at 9 pm and due the next day on top of my 5 cuts, 2 lock changes, and bid approvals due at the same time. How does everyone do it? How do you refrain from office staff at these companies being unsympathetic and idiots?


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

AW27 said:


> I'm trying to keep calm and sane here, but since I've expanded (as a sub) from being just a grass cut contractor to doing all aspects of P&P (even REO for Safeguard), I've had terrible luck with call backs, getting my debris removal counts lowered, extensions denied even though I get a 60 CYD trashout at 9 pm and due the next day on top of my 5 cuts, 2 lock changes, and bid approvals due at the same time. How does everyone do it? How do you refrain from office staff at these companies being unsympathetic and idiots?


Welcome to the chaos. What you've listed above are only a few of the reasons many of the folks here seem bitter and are implementing exit strategies from P&P work with Nationals and Regionals.......:yes::yes:


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

AW27 said:


> I'm trying to keep calm and sane here, but since I've expanded (as a sub) from being just a grass cut contractor to doing all aspects of P&P (even REO for Safeguard), I've had terrible luck with call backs, getting my debris removal counts lowered, extensions denied even though I get a 60 CYD trashout at 9 pm and due the next day on top of my 5 cuts, 2 lock changes, and bid approvals due at the same time. How does everyone do it? How do you refrain from office staff at these companies being unsympathetic and idiots?


I feel your pain dude. Its very tough. my advice, post status updates and send emails, along with making the phone calls. Get it in writing. Don't complete work you are calling in about until you get an answer...in writing (email). When I first started, there's no telling how many times I was burned by an idiot telling me I can go ahead with the work "I'll send a POC". And the POC never shows up. Stay on the phone with them as they send you the POC. Most of the idiots seem to be the night crew (not all of the idiots are on the night crew), they are the "updaters". And these guys are P&P illiterates. They have no clue what a P&P contractor does. They have a playbook they go by. They cut invoices without reading the comments or notes. They cut bids based on...near as I can figure, nothing.

You have to stand your ground. Dig the big toe in and don't budge. They regionals and bid desk people have to be held accountable for the promises they make. If you don't get the email they promise, submit a status update stating why you're waiting. Call back the person you spoke with, leave a message if you have too. Is it more work...yeah, but I get paid.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

BamaPPC said:


> I feel your pain dude. Its very tough. my advice, post status updates and send emails, along with making the phone calls. Get it in writing. Don't complete work you are calling in about until you get an answer...in writing (email). When I first started, there's no telling how many times I was burned by an idiot telling me I can go ahead with the work "I'll send a POC". And the POC never shows up. Stay on the phone with them as they send you the POC. Most of the idiots seem to be the night crew (not all of the idiots are on the night crew), they are the "updaters". And these guys are P&P illiterates. They have no clue what a P&P contractor does. They have a playbook they go by. They cut invoices without reading the comments or notes. They cut bids based on...near as I can figure, nothing.
> 
> You have to stand your ground. Dig the big toe in and don't budge. They regionals and bid desk people have to be held accountable for the promises they make. If you don't get the email they promise, submit a status update stating why you're waiting. Call back the person you spoke with, leave a message if you have too. Is it more work...yeah, but I get paid.


Very simple rule... if it in not in writing it is a rumor. You will not get paid based upon a rumor.


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## Irnhrse5 (Apr 18, 2013)

Let me tell you a few little secrets:
1. EVERYONE gets their debris amounts reduced. Call your regional and negoiate a price. If you can't do it, tell them to reassign it. 
2. The reason you get a 60 CYD clean out due the next day is because it's a reassign. Just do it. Get it done. Don't worry about the due date, just get it done in a reasonable amount of time. 
3. Get a POC for EVERYTHING. 
4. Do NOT do ANY REO work! At all! It's not worth it!
5. If you get enough problem jobs done for them, (reassigns), they will start sending more work and easy work orders, like fence jobs and roof repairs. These two are our biggest money makers. 
6. Don't get angry with them. Just call until you find a person who is good at their job, and try to talk to them the majority of the times you call. You will make more money like this, trust me.


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## browneyedgirl (May 17, 2013)

AW27 said:


> I'm trying to keep calm and sane here, but since I've expanded (as a sub) from being just a grass cut contractor to doing all aspects of P&P (even REO for Safeguard), I've had terrible luck with call backs, getting my debris removal counts lowered, extensions denied even though I get a 60 CYD trashout at 9 pm and due the next day on top of my 5 cuts, 2 lock changes, and bid approvals due at the same time. How does everyone do it? How do you refrain from office staff at these companies being unsympathetic and idiots?


On work orders that you get and are due the next day you need to call or e-mail them and let them know when you will complete the wo cause bug bug bug them they should at least give you 24 to 48 hours to complete Get you a dry erase board to justify debri. picture the debri in each room and then write each item down and debri count take a picture yeah it is a lot more work but it justifies the debri count. And you work from day light til dark pound the pavement No vacation time No holidays welcome to our world


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

Irnhrse5 said:


> Let me tell you a few little secrets:
> 6. Don't get angry with them. Just call until you find a person who is good at their job, and try to talk to them the majority of the times you call. You will make more money like this, trust me.


Best advice I ever got, Don't get mad - get paid! The old saying about "sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you." Well, it's always better to be the *bear* in those situations. If they get you because you make a mistake or didn't cross the T just right or some other silly thing, swallow it, (as long as it's not going to bankrupt you)but don't forget what they owe you. Invoices are cut, locks are installed that you shouldn't have (you didn't read the entire work order), all kinds of stuff happens. $20 buck here, $50 bucks there. it's not going to kill you. BUT, it's still money they owe you. find a fence repair, fallen tree removal, building demo...and remember what they owe you.

In fact, I'm kinda ahead of what they owe me right now. But I'm sure they'll catch up. LOL


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## AW27 (May 5, 2013)

Thank you for the great advice! I actually have a situation right now where I'm being forced to go back to a property and prime and paint a section of wall that has permanent marker all over it at my cost, even though I took plenty of photos of it and attached my bid in Property Pres Wizard. Instead of arguing with them over this, I'm just going to do it and get it over with (I have plenty of paint from my trashouts, believe me!) It's due tomorrow, yet I have other things that actually pay due as well. I'm obviously going to do the paying jobs first and try my damnedest to get the no charge call back done, but it probably wont be done until after 10 pm.

And yes, since I've started taking on more jobs I've realized that 8 am until 9 pm is a normal workday, weekends don't exist, and I don't have time to work on my vehicles or set up appointments. I'm making decent money, but I can't spend it (and most of it goes for operating expenses. Phew!)


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

AW27 said:


> Thank you for the great advice! I actually have a situation right now where I'm being forced to go back to a property and prime and paint a section of wall that has permanent marker all over it at my cost, even though I took plenty of photos of it and attached my bid in Property Pres Wizard. Instead of arguing with them over this, I'm just going to do it and get it over with


I dont understand. You bid it but they are making it a no cost WO? That would fly like a lead balloon. Push back and dont let them use you.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

I do not start anything, with very very few exceptions, until I have the work order with the total price for the job on it. 

I make it clear this is the price. If they wanted to cut CY they should have done it when we were negotiating the price. 

Another trick is to learn how to load a trailer for max CY. Remember they are paying for you to haul air. 

Any time a customer demands pics justifying CY count I maximize my CY. 

Dressers have drawers removed and emptied. All of this goes in the bottom upside down. 

Tree limbs and plant cuttings fall where they may. They add lots of bulk. 

Trash cans to be disposed of go in the trailer empty. 

Flower pots, buckets, plastic totes, etc. - upside down and empty. 

Loose stuff goes in trash bags and gets tossed on top. 

It may mean an extra trip to the dump, but it also means extra $$ in your pocket. 

Fortunately for me the people I deal with now just want it gone. Once we agree on a price we can crush or jamb it as tight as we want. 

The price is the price and is not subject to change without notice.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

AW27, can you list any reasons since you have expanded that cause you to continue as you are?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

AW27 said:


> I'm trying to keep calm and sane here, but since I've expanded (as a sub) from being just a grass cut contractor to doing all aspects of P&P (even REO for Safeguard), I've had terrible luck with call backs, getting my debris removal counts lowered, extensions denied even though I get a 60 CYD trashout at 9 pm and due the next day on top of my 5 cuts, 2 lock changes, and bid approvals due at the same time. How does everyone do it? How do you refrain from office staff at these companies being unsympathetic and idiots?


Easy solution. DO NOT EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WORK FOR SAFEGAURD!!!!

Safegaurd, FAS, Cyprexx, AMS, 5 Brothers, and the list goes on


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

If you want it to stop, get rid of SG!


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## ontimepres (Jan 4, 2013)

Guys, he's not working for Safeguard if he's submitting his bids via PPW. Maybe the first problem is you're working as a sub for a SG vendor? 



AW27 said:


> Thank you for the great advice! I actually have a situation right now where I'm being forced to go back to a property and prime and paint a section of wall that has permanent marker all over it at my cost, even though I took plenty of photos of it and attached my bid in Property Pres Wizard. Instead of arguing with them over this, I'm just going to do it and get it over with (I have plenty of paint from my trashouts, believe me!) It's due tomorrow, yet I have other things that actually pay due as well. I'm obviously going to do the paying jobs first and try my damnedest to get the no charge call back done, but it probably wont be done until after 10 pm.
> 
> And yes, since I've started taking on more jobs I've realized that 8 am until 9 pm is a normal workday, weekends don't exist, and I don't have time to work on my vehicles or set up appointments. I'm making decent money, but I can't spend it (and most of it goes for operating expenses. Phew!)


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

AW27 said:


> Thank you for the great advice! I actually have a situation right now where I'm being forced to go back to a property and prime and paint a section of wall that has permanent marker all over it at my cost, even though I took plenty of photos of it and attached my bid in Property Pres Wizard. Instead of arguing with them over this, I'm just going to do it and get it over with (I have plenty of paint from my trashouts, believe me!) It's due tomorrow, yet I have other things that actually pay due as well. I'm obviously going to do the paying jobs first and try my damnedest to get the no charge call back done, but it probably wont be done until after 10 pm.
> 
> And yes, since I've started taking on more jobs I've realized that 8 am until 9 pm is a normal workday, weekends don't exist, and I don't have time to work on my vehicles or set up appointments. I'm making decent money, but I can't spend it (and most of it goes for operating expenses. Phew!)


I hope you see this before you go out but heres a time saver before painting SPRAY some bombcan primer ruddy red or it can even be grey or the white over the stained area !! It dries reallyfast and blocks it out for good NO bleed through and such have done this on crayon and magic marker Works like a charm !!


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## AW27 (May 5, 2013)

Who is the one actually not giving the extensions, approvals etc? Is it the nationals making executive decisions and speaking for the banks without actually asking, or are they actually forwarding requests to them? A lot of the time it's an instant answer, but wouldn't the deed holder want me to do the work right rather than sloppy, even if it takes an extra day?


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

AW27 said:


> Who is the one actually not giving the extensions, approvals etc? Is it the nationals making executive decisions and speaking for the banks without actually asking, or are they actually forwarding requests to them? A lot of the time it's an instant answer, but wouldn't the deed holder want me to do the work right rather than sloppy, even if it takes an extra day?



Whats the name of the Company you are talking about ?


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

@AW27...
do you know;
break Even Point?
Break Even Analysis?
How to use a cash flow to determine profit and loss???

If you answer no to any of those you need to take a deep breath and back the jeep up as you will be broke before you know it and whomever is subbing you work will move to the next guy that will foot the bill to complete services....
email me at [email protected] if you'd like more information...


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