# Ams???



## ALS9386

how is ams? do they pay??


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## Cleanupman

yes...but not enough...

Be very careful at the numbers you agree to....


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## ALS9386

ok thanks


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## brm1109

they contacted me twice. the last time they sent me a price list I responded with "please send me the real prices because these can't be right". Never heard back. lol


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## PPC

Stay away from AMS


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## Craigslist Hack

They used to be good to work for then they started some BS QC rules to get out of paying. Right now they are paying $15.00 for a sales clean refresh and $25.00 for the grass cut. Then they find 6,000 reasons not to pay you after you do the job.

Their GMAC work used to be good but then Ocwen bought the portfolio and changed the rules. STAY AWAY!!!

My rule of thumb is NEVER work for any company that wants to base your debris totals off of pictures after the fact. If you can't go in and supply a bid prior to performing the work you are going to get screwed.


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## STARBABY

Craigslist Hack said:


> They used to be good to work for then they started some BS QC rules to get out of paying. Right now they are paying $15.00 for a sales clean refresh and $25.00 for the grass cut. Then they find 6,000 reasons not to pay you after you do the job.
> 
> Their GMAC work used to be good but then Ocwen bought the portfolio and changed the rules. STAY AWAY!!!
> 
> My rule of thumb is NEVER work for any company that wants to base your debris totals off of pictures after the fact. If you can't go in and supply a bid prior to performing the work you are going to get screwed.


so true!


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## ALS9386

Thanks every one. But it's to late I took the contract. Because SG lowered there price on the inspection. What company are good to work for then??


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## Craigslist Hack

ALS9386 said:


> Thanks every one. But it's to late I took the contract. Because SG lowered there price on the inspection. What company are good to work for then??


None.


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## GTX63

Can you narrow that down any?


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## Ohnojim

*My AMS pricing is about twice that before 20% discount*



Craigslist Hack said:


> They used to be good to work for then they started some BS QC rules to get out of paying. Right now they are paying $15.00 for a sales clean refresh and $25.00 for the grass cut. Then they find 6,000 reasons not to pay you after you do the job.
> 
> Their GMAC work used to be good but then Ocwen bought the portfolio and changed the rules. STAY AWAY!!!
> 
> My rule of thumb is NEVER work for any company that wants to base your debris totals off of pictures after the fact. If you can't go in and supply a bid prior to performing the work you are going to get screwed.


They have been getting a little wacky with the QC disapprovals lately though.


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## Cleanupman

Ohnojim said:


> They have been getting a little wacky with the QC disapprovals lately though.


too wacky from what I hear...

I have a procedure that forces them to approve everything in writing prior to the start of services....


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## Craigslist Hack

Cleanupman said:


> too wacky from what I hear...
> 
> I have a procedure that forces them to approve everything in writing prior to the start of services....


I tried that and it worked briefly. Then they started approving things up front but when we turned it in they said the pics didn't justify the debris totals. They said that the trees we trimmed were only a few feet not what they approved. They even went as far as cutting a mold bid after we did the work stating that the pics didn't justify the approval.


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Can you narrow that down any?


Well they all have their issues and we know which ones are worse than others. 

can you name a company that doesn't cut bids?

How about one that doesn't require Cost Estimators?

How about one that does not require 3 hrs worth of bidding for every initial?

How about a company that doesn't charge back?

How about a National that pays in 2 weeks?

One that doesn't come up with new QC procedures every 2 to 3 months?


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## Ohnojim

*I have just come to expect about 5%*

disapprovals, and calculate it right in as an expense. I have been lucky with trash-outs, and haven't had any that exceed 35yrds, so I haven't had to bid anything in that department. All in all, when taken as a whole, I have no real problems with AMS. The numbers work for me, my overhead is low, I'm not trying to be a preservation mogul or build an empire. I'm pulling in some good steady money with them, and try not to let the little things bother me. If you obsess over a work order or two out of the couple hundred for the month, you will self destruct.


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> disapprovals, and calculate it right in as an expense. I have been lucky with trash-outs, and haven't had any that exceed 35yrds, so I haven't had to bid anything in that department. All in all, when taken as a whole, I have no real problems with AMS. The numbers work for me, my overhead is low, I'm not trying to be a preservation mogul or build an empire. I'm pulling in some good steady money with them, and try not to let the little things bother me. If you obsess over a work order or two out of the couple hundred for the month, you will self destruct.


With what they pay I can't afford to give up another 5%. The debris pay is a joke. I pay my guys better than AMS pays me then AMS deducts and i end up paying to put handrails or smokes in some other persons house. 

Yeah I get a little spun out over that. I can go broke on the couch slower.:furious:


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## Ohnojim

*If I were still running a real business with employees.*



Craigslist Hack said:


> With what they pay I can't afford to give up another 5%. The debris pay is a joke. I pay my guys better than AMS pays me then AMS deducts and i end up paying to put handrails or smokes in some other persons house.
> 
> Yeah I get a little spun out over that. I can go broke on the couch slower.:furious:


It wouldn't work. But, as a one man show. I do OK. So far today I'm only about $200 in the hole.


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## ALS9386

How long was it until you got ur first check?


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## Craigslist Hack

ALS9386 said:


> How long was it until you got ur first check?


They pay around the 20th of each month. So it may take a while to find out you got screwed. They don't tell you. You have to read your invoice statement.


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## Cleanupman

Craigslist Hack said:


> They pay around the 20th of each month. So it may take a while to find out you got screwed. They don't tell you. You have to read your invoice statement.


As in go over it with a fine tooth comb....


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## Craigslist Hack

Cleanupman said:


> As in go over it with a fine tooth comb....


and if you find mistakes that they own up to they won't correct that until next pay period. EVEN if you find the mistake prior to approving the invoice. 

I have an invoice with them right now that I refuse to approve and they keep emailing me everyday looking for an approval.


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## LawnMowerMan

Craigslist Hack said:


> and if you find mistakes that they own up to they won't correct that until next pay period. EVEN if you find the mistake prior to approving the invoice.
> 
> I have an invoice with them right now that I refuse to approve and they keep emailing me everyday looking for an approval.


Some of you must have different auditors then us... We use Quick Books for each closed out WO regardless of the client, AMS invoice comes in and we print off our's and compair to theirs. 

List any issues and have a corrected invoice with in 24hrs :thumbsup:

What pisses me off is when they drop your tier score and it's the initial contractor or reps fault, as you had no control over what other vendors do or don't do and what WO are assigned from the state reps. 

Any invoice/QC issues that go unresolved in 24hrs and Mitch gets a phone call. Guessing he has me in his caller ID, as he answers knowing it is me :thumbup:.


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## LawnMowerMan

Craigslist Hack said:


> Right now they are paying $15.00 for a sales clean refresh and $25.00 for the grass cut.


*Somebody LET themselves get hosed there!* Unless your area is saturated by meth heads with a push mower strapped on top of a Caviler, who can afford general liability.... You done $#[email protected] up agreeing to those prices.


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## Cleanupman

You should be able to have everything resolved prior to approving...
we do


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## Craigslist Hack

LawnMowerMan said:


> *Somebody LET themselves get hosed there!* Unless your area is saturated by meth heads with a push mower strapped on top of a Caviler, who can afford general liability.... You done $#[email protected] up agreeing to those prices.


We never agreed to that nor do we work on that contract. We are closing out the last couple of GMAC properties we have with them and then we are done.


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## LawnMowerMan

Craigslist Hack said:


> We never agreed to that nor do we work on that contract. We are closing out the last couple of GMAC properties we have with them and then we are done.


When dealing with AMS you have to let them know; YOU are in charge and they are just cubicle monkeys that you have to feed a little! 

The reps will move on or be fired before you!


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## Craigslist Hack

LawnMowerMan said:


> When dealing with AMS you have to let them know; YOU are in charge and they are just cubicle monkeys that you have to feed a little!
> 
> The reps will move on or be fired before you!


I have been through so many reps in the last 3 years it would blow your mind. We have also been through their gaining and losing contracts. The only reps we liked always get promoted or moved to tougher states. Our state is easy for them and there isn't that much action.

Last year it started slowing down and hasn't really picked up since. They are subbing VA work through VRM and that is why the pricing matrix is so far off.


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## LawnMowerMan

Craigslist Hack said:


> I have been through so many reps in the last 3 years it would blow your mind. We have also been through their gaining and losing contracts. The only reps we liked always get promoted or moved to tougher states. Our state is easy for them and there isn't that much action.
> 
> Last year it started slowing down and hasn't really picked up since. They are subbing VA work through VRM and that is why the pricing matrix is so far off.


I know the pain, we are on our 3rd "set" of reps since April :sleep1:

Personally I think the latest batch is just some fake personalites from the artificial intelligence they call Vorticity :whistling2:

Wake up this morning and they now have installed some new Cyberdyne errr... I mean Vorticity software that is more in tune with a tablet or smart phone. And issues to boot, as it shows all my routines due on 12-31-2013 and no spread sheet printouts either 

Good times!


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## Ohnojim

*Well, you should be happy you can log in.*

I can't. This is gonna be a great week. I think I'll just do a few of my own jobs, until they get the bugs worked out.


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## Cleanupman

Ohnojim said:


> I can't. This is gonna be a great week. I think I'll just do a few of my own jobs, until they get the bugs worked out.


That is interesting....


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## Ohnojim

*Not really that interesting. They probably reset my*



Cleanupman said:


> That is interesting....



password back to the system generated one. Just like when the rolled out Vorticity.


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## Ohnojim

*Oh, well got logged in now.*

guess I'll have to do my routines.


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## LawnMowerMan

Ohnojim said:


> guess I'll have to do my routines.



Lucky you... I have no "upload" buttons :thumbup:


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## Ohnojim

*I have upload buyyons for my work orders,*

but not for routines. I think that issue is system wide.


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## LawnMowerMan

Ohnojim said:


> but not for routines. I think that issue is system wide.



As do we.... 24-48hrs before due. All routines show due 12/31/2013 :whistling2: 

On the good side is our Sept invoice was correct and "accepted" :thumbup:

I blame good old Bill and Windows 8 :furious:


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## Craigslist Hack

I don't do routines anymore and it's going so well I'm thinking about telling all of our clients that we quit.


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## Ohnojim

*I have a good area. Small lawns close together,*

rural pricing. It's nothing for me to do 20 a day by myself. I can do without the initials, and really only do them to keep the clients happy.


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## Cleanupman

The numbers they wanted us to do routines at made me puke...then I laughed at them...

I don't know how anyone makes the numbers they want us...$16 a maid and 20 lawn....
You would have to have all 20 properties on the same block to make those numbers work....


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> rural pricing. It's nothing for me to do 20 a day by myself. I can do without the initials, and really only do them to keep the clients happy.


That's 20 chances at a return, 20 possibilities of not getting paid, then a couple of hours uploading and labeling pics. 

I'm doing a 20 cyd trash out today for a bank. $1,000.00 no sales clean

Winterization $150.00

Initial grass cut on 15,000 sqft lot $235.00

This job will take maybe 4hrs? I zip the pics and shoot them to the bank and the check comes 3 days later. I want more of this and Zero national work.


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## Ohnojim

*I don't have call back issue of any consequence, my pricing is twice or*

better of what I see posted here. The initial service numbers you posted are in line with what I am getting on VA jobs in my area, in fact I'm getting more for the wints. I do private work too, and yes it pays better. But, my business model is different than yours. I KEEP ALL THE MONEY. Do I bust my ass?you betcha. But, the hassle and expense of having employees, and the responsibility is far more of a pain than a call back or an occasional disapproval, at least for me. I just did a $1600 trash-out with sales clean, all by my lonesome, except my girlfriend drove the truck to the dump, and cleaned out the cabinets, I hate that job. I like my AMS routine landscapes and value them as a customer, obviously your experience has been different. Every model has it's issue, pitfalls and upside. I pull in serious, steady cash from AMS every month. Private work while profitable can be feast or famine. They compliment each other, in my opinion. I don't want to lose either.


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> better of what I see posted here. The initial service numbers you posted are in line with what I am getting on VA jobs in my area, in fact I'm getting more for the wints. I do private work too, and yes it pays better. But, my business model is different than yours. I KEEP ALL THE MONEY. Do I bust my ass?you betcha. But, the hassle and expense of having employees, and the responsibility is far more of a pain than a call back or an occasional disapproval, at least for me. I just did a $1600 trash-out with sales clean, all by my lonesome, except my girlfriend drove the truck to the dump, and cleaned out the cabinets, I hate that job. I like my AMS routine landscapes and value them as a customer, obviously your experience has been different. Every model has it's issue, pitfalls and upside. I pull in serious, steady cash from AMS every month. Private work while profitable can be feast or famine. They compliment each other, in my opinion. I don't want to lose either.



I agree with you that employees suck and the feast or famine thing is definitely the case. I am telling you though we did serious business with AMS at HUD with a 20% discount for years. That means our cheapest grass cut was $80.00 and back then we made money. These days those jobs are few and far between and the VA crap that replaced them is no good. 

I would rather use my time to develop more private business than gamble with AMS. It's not a question of if they will screw you it's only a matter of time.


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## Ohnojim

*I had some GMAC lawns last year that paid $312*

befor discount, that's the routines, god I miss them. I don't know if they lost the contract or gave them to one of their favorites. And, yes they have screwed me here and there already, it was hard to swallow,but in totality I still need them. I'm new to this racket and have a lot to learn. Right now, I'm just making hay while the sun shines, and hoping for the best. I'm getting a little too old to be climbing around on roofs, and framing or doing concrete work like I used to do, so for now, I have to bite my tongue and keep my head down. You should read some of the E-mails to AMS, that get saved to drafts and eventually deleted. I'm most definitely using my time to develop private work, and have had some success. The thing is AMS plays into that equation simply by keeping me out there making contacts in the industry. I've been there and done the employee and partner thing, it would take some serious opportunity to make me go that route again. I think we are all one bad decision away from losing our ass in the industry.


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## Used and Abused

*Been trying to find a bank or banks for my area, any leads.
I have been in this business for 4 years now in a rural part of my state.
You would think i could find one but no luck yet.

Thanks
Steve
*


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## Cleanupman

Used and Abused said:


> *Been trying to find a bank or banks for my area, any leads.
> I have been in this business for 4 years now in a rural part of my state.
> You would think i could find one but no luck yet.
> 
> Thanks
> Steve
> *


your area would be????

One of the things you may need to do is prepare a prospectus for the mortgage department at your local banks.
If you need help with one contact us...


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## Craigslist Hack

Used and Abused said:


> *Been trying to find a bank or banks for my area, any leads.
> I have been in this business for 4 years now in a rural part of my state.
> You would think i could find one but no luck yet.
> 
> Thanks
> Steve
> *


If you are going to them offering to cut grass and do clean outs you are wasting your time. There is a line a mile long of guys wanting to offer those services. You need to give them what they need not what you want. I got in with a few by doing demo work, tree removal, roofing and kitchen remodels. The Bubba's can't bank roll the big jobs and they will cut your throat on lawns and clean outs anyway.


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## Used and Abused

I do offer all those services as well with licenses to back it up, but only get to tarp roofs and do tree removal for the nationals as they don't seem to get any repair jobs, demos and the like. Let be back up some light weight plumbing.


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## Craigslist Hack

Used and Abused said:


> I do offer all those services as well with licenses to back it up, but only get to tarp roofs and do tree removal for the nationals as they don't seem to get any repair jobs, demos and the like. Let be back up some light weight plumbing.


Light weight plumbing is a nice order the margins are usually great! 

If what you are saying is that realtors aren't doing the work the Natonals are you may ha ego wait a bit. More and more work is beginning to go through realtors but certain markets are slow. In my market I would say maybe 10% comes through realtors and the nationals still handle the rest. However a few times each month we get an RFQ from an asset manager. I just had one get approved but they only took the wint? Whatever though it gets me in the door. 

Where are you located?


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## Used and Abused

Southeast Arkansas

I have been trying to get in touch with some asset managers but as of date i have not had any luck, so all i have is nationals right now (4). 
If you have any contacts that you would share or ideas on how to get in touch that would be great.
I need to either grow or get out of this, im at that stage of breaking even due to such a small amount of homes in this area.
My area brings a new meaning to one horse towns, not to say I will not travel just need some jobs to go to. I'm not afarid of hard work as i grew up and and operated my own family farm for 20 years and now this LOL.

Thanks You for your help and input.


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## ALS9386

Does AMS pay only once a month?? It weekly after the 1st 30 days?


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## Craigslist Hack

Once a month is it.


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## ALS9386

Has anyone gotten there invoice from AMS,for last month yet?


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## Ohnojim

*They have not been coming out intil the 11th or 12th lately*



ALS9386 said:


> Has anyone gotten there invoice from AMS,for last month yet?


For FNMA. VA invoices have been sent out already if you do VRM contracts.


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## ALS9386

I have not gotten my yet. They told me the 5th. Now they told me the 12th. Looks like I will be heading to pa soon lol.


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## Ohnojim

*If your case id# were all numbers starting with P*



ALS9386 said:


> I have not gotten my yet. They told me the 5th. Now they told me the 12th. Looks like I will be heading to pa soon lol.


You will have no MAAG or VRM work orders, so you will not get an invoice on the 5th. It depends on what loan you are working. If you are only doing Fannie work you will get your invoice anytime between now and the 12th. I think that's the source of your confusion. Most likely overnight on the 11th.


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## ALS9386

Ok thanks. I will be looking out for it. Running low on $


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> You will have no MAAG or VRM work orders, so you will not get an invoice on the 5th. It depends on what loan you are working. If you are only doing Fannie work you will get your invoice anytime between now and the 12th. I think that's the source of your confusion. Most likely overnight on the 11th.


Did they quit VRM?


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## Ohnojim

*The VRM orders are all farmed through MAAG now.*



Craigslist Hack said:


> Did they quit VRM?


http://www.maagllc.info/#!about

I don't know if it's good or bad. But, all of my WO's were paid in full, even my load counts weren't "adjusted". I was a bit pissed at first to find out I was subbed to another company after I had already completed a few thousand in work orders, it seems to be OK, so far.


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## ALS9386

Is that when you get yours?? The wife is stating to lose it. I have no lt had a pay check in over month.


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## ALS9386

How long after u approve the invoice does the check come ???


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## ALS9386

What the ****.... I got ****ed so hard by AMS.


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## Ohnojim

*They have been arriving on the 22nd lately.*

They had always been delivered on the 17th in the past, but lately they have not arrived until the 22nd. So, I guess anytime between there. that's with early pay, and overnight Fed Ex.


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## Ohnojim

*What happened?*



ALS9386 said:


> What the ****.... I got ****ed so hard by AMS.



How did they @#$%^ you.


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## ALS9386

I spent 3on dump fees and dumpster rental


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## ALS9386

I spent well over 3000 on dumpster and going to the dump. Then about about 300 on anti freez. About 1200 on paying people. All to get back 2500.


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## ALS9386

Half my invoice didn't get paid. I will be going to pa tomrrow morning. It only 2hr away.


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## Ohnojim

*Did you get all of your invoices.*



ALS9386 said:


> Half my invoice didn't get paid. I will be going to pa tomrrow morning. It only 2hr away.


Do you maybe have some VRM work still out, or were some orders disapproved?


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## ALS9386

All load counts we're is disapproved 10 wint didn't get paid


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## ALS9386

I don't know what is VRM???? I really don't even care if It is VRM BTM STD. I WANT MY ****ING MONEY!! Done playing nice!! Time to call a lawyer.


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## Craigslist Hack

This is exactly why the veterans advise against working for AMS and a number of other companies.

The reality is we as contractors should refuse to do work prior to approved bids. You would know what you were going to be paid for a job prior to starting it like the rest of the construction world.

We as a company no longer perform work and wait for payday to find out how much we charged. We took control of our future back!

I'm sorry you and others are in this situation. I have been there myself and it sucks. The ONLY way to prevent this kind of thing is to agree on a price and have something in writing prior to beginning work at a property.


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## ALS9386

I will start doing it now


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## Ohnojim

*AMS has actually agreed to a price up front.*



Craigslist Hack said:


> This is exactly why the veterans advise against working for AMS and a number of other companies.
> 
> The reality is we as contractors should refuse to do work prior to approved bids. You would know what you were going to be paid for a job prior to starting it like the rest of the construction world.
> 
> We as a company no longer perform work and wait for payday to find out how much we charged. We took control of our future back!
> 
> I'm sorry you and others are in this situation. I have been there myself and it sucks. The ONLY way to prevent this kind of thing is to agree on a price and have something in writing prior to beginning work at a property.


and then adjusted it down without notice on the invoice. So, getting them to agree to the price is still no guarantee. I'm generally pretty happy with AMS, but they have their moments of shear stupidity. My inventory with them is pretty large right now, and it would be difficult to quit, and get away clean. It's like working for the mob.


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## Ohnojim

*It sounds like you jumped right in with both feet.*



ALS9386 said:


> I will start doing it now


I just stuck my toe in the water, when I started for them.


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## cutting grass

What is VRM


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## Craigslist Hack

cutting grass said:


> What is VRM


The company that has the VA contract in many states. They are a national and AMS subs work from VRM. AMS is nothing more than a regional in most cases. They often sub work from other nationals.


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