# Asons



## GPPNJ

Anyone have any info on ASONS?


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## david

*Hi*

do a search plenty of info on them


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## AaronMcKeehan

They were paying as the work was done. IE you get paid the same day you submit a grass cut.


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## GGC

There pricing is pretty bad, but they do pay quickly.


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## madxtreme01

I was contacted to do work for them, also saw the pricing was a little low, but being paid immediately was really nice. Then I found out that for a simple $25 grass cut they required 12, YES 12!!!! angles, 5 or 6 during shots including a pic of the person doing the work showing everything but a face (means you need a 2 man crew or a tripod with remote), all interior rooms and do a condition report while there. I'm all for reporting crap in hopes of getting additional work but how do you take 12 angles of a 5k sq lot? 1 acre lot, fine, but 12 angles? are they nuts? and it had to be in a certain sequence, standing at specific spots on the property. It was nuts. I told them before I even left the house that I will not be doing any work with them.


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## PPPrincessNOT

address... 4 corners 2 during on the mower 2 weed eating 4 afters
that's 12...Pretty much standard for any Nat or regional


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## madxtreme01

PPPrincessNOT said:


> address... 4 corners 2 during on the mower 2 weed eating 4 afters
> that's 12...Pretty much standard for any Nat or regional



No, you misunderstood....They wanted 12 angles like a clock. 1 at 1'oclock, another at 2'oclock etc. So it would be 12 before, 12 after, and 5-6 during. So your average grass cut after interiors and damages would be 150 pics


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## PPPrincessNOT

We've done work for Asons for years... Never has that been a requirement... 
New?


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## madxtreme01

PPPrincessNOT said:


> We've done work for Asons for years... Never has that been a requirement...
> New?


Not sure, maybe it's a regional thing, but I called them to question the requirements and were told I was reading it correctly. Too bad, I would have loved to do work for them being that they pay immediately.


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## hammerhead

heck i never took that many pictures on the rehabs i did for them


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## PPPrincessNOT

madxtreme01 said:


> Not sure, maybe it's a regional thing, but I called them to question the requirements and were told I was reading it correctly. Too bad, I would have loved to do work for them being that they pay immediately.


 
What state are you in?


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## madxtreme01

New Jersey


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## PPPrincessNOT

Huh... Interesting... I didn't think they were farther east then PA and that's a new state for them. I went thru all my new "rules" for them and even the odd ball ones don't have that requirement..
But they aren't my bread and butter.. We only pull about 10k a week from them....
Ill have to ask my contact there and see if maybe you got a confused cubical monkey noob or if they are gonna start changing the requirements..

M


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## david

*Hi*

i have the updated version of guidelines from asons , unless new jersey is different then other states the only thing that changed was now they want everything done with an edger not a weedeater only 4 photos front back and sides before and afters


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## PPPrincessNOT

david said:


> i have the updated version of guidelines from asons , unless new jersey is different then other states the only thing that changed was now they want everything done with an edger not a weedeater only 4 photos front back and sides before and afters


 
Yeah that's the same thing I read in mine. Im guessing a miscommunication somewhere...
Surprised to find they are in NJ everything Ive seen says no farther then PA


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## safeguard dropout

Yep, I've been told by a couple good cube monks (there are a few decent ones) that when they get someone cheatin they go on a chit list and the photos get more eyeballs and more pics are requested from the contractor....things like street signs and 12 angles....he did day he was skipping trimming.....then again Asons isn't even in NJ....huh....more questions than answers here.


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## ctquietcorner

I know Asons is in both CT and MA as my husband has been doing work for them for over 2 years.

In the beginning we had to do the different angles of the house and such, but because my husband takes panoramic photos he was told he did not have to take so many photos.

He takes the photos of his hand on the mower, weed whacker, and leaf blower 4 of each and of course the before and after photos of the lawns. There has never been a problem. 

As a matter of fact he has been asked several times in the last few weeks if he would go out of his territory to do initials as the vendors they did have just didn't do the work correctly. He took a few and got extra mileage for them, but the others were 2 hours one way so he declined.


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## madxtreme01

I think I'm going to give them a call and verify again. I would have really like to work for them. Their fees were a little low, but to not wait for a paycheck really helps keep you afloat. Most of my guys would probably work for 1/2 if they could get paid at the end of the week.


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## PPPrincessNOT

madxtreme01 said:


> I think I'm going to give them a call and verify again. I would have really like to work for them. Their fees were a little low, but to not wait for a paycheck really helps keep you afloat. Most of my guys would probably work for 1/2 if they could get paid at the end of the week.


 No offence but if you need daily pay to keep afloat... theres something wrong..
My guys get paid every week. I don't make them wait for me to get paid. I hired them to do a job.. They do it they get paid. Its my responsibility to see that they get paid and I deal with the headaches (which are few and far between thank goodness):wink:


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## madxtreme01

PPPrincessNOT said:


> No offence but if you need daily pay to keep afloat... theres something wrong..
> My guys get paid every week. I don't make them wait for me to get paid. I hired them to do a job.. They do it they get paid. Its my responsibility to see that they get paid and I deal with the headaches (which are few and far between thank goodness):wink:



I pay my guys bi-weekly but only on what I get paid, hence if I don't get paid on a job, neither do they. I have tried it your way and have lost too much money for jobs that were not completed correctly and now the contractor is long gone. I explain that once I receive a check for a specific order, that means that the order has been approved by the client. Until it meets their stringent qc, they don't get paid. By keep afloat, I mean I have some contractors that no matter if they get a check for $5 or $50,000, they always seem to be broke and start complaining about the work they did 18 days ago that they haven't gotten paid on yet. Payday comes, they sit quietly, about 3-4 days before the next cycle they want to know which orders are paid and if this one is included and that one. It gets frustrating so to be able to tell them that everything that was done by this company will be paid every cycle would help get the guys off my back. Since I changed the rules, I rarely have an issue getting paid bc the crews pay closer attention to what they are doing to ensure proper payment.


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## G 3

madxtreme01 said:


> I pay my guys bi-weekly but only on what I get paid, hence if I don't get paid on a job, neither do they. I have tried it your way and have lost too much money for jobs that were not completed correctly and now the contractor is long gone. I explain that once I receive a check for a specific order, that means that the order has been approved by the client. Until it meets their stringent qc, they don't get paid. By keep afloat, I mean I have some contractors that no matter if they get a check for $5 or $50,000, they always seem to be broke and start complaining about the work they did 18 days ago that they haven't gotten paid on yet. Payday comes, they sit quietly, about 3-4 days before the next cycle they want to know which orders are paid and if this one is included and that one. It gets frustrating so to be able to tell them that everything that was done by this company will be paid every cycle would help get the guys off my back. Since I changed the rules, I rarely have an issue getting paid bc the crews pay closer attention to what they are doing to ensure proper payment.


You need to send my your HR's name so I can pick their brains... I'd love to figure out how you did this...

I can't think of a single person who would do work, then have to wait 30-45 days for pay on that work, provided something (Which always happens) didn't go wrong. You're the business owner, they're the hires. I think there are laws regarding this, but I may be wrong... I should check into this practice...:vs_no_no_no:


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## madxtreme01

G 3 said:


> You need to send my your HR's name so I can pick their brains... I'd love to figure out how you did this...
> 
> I can't think of a single person who would do work, then have to wait 30-45 days for pay on that work, provided something (Which always happens) didn't go wrong. You're the business owner, they're the hires. I think there are laws regarding this, but I may be wrong... I should check into this practice...:vs_no_no_no:



There are no laws when you are hiring independent contractors. If it were illegal then it would be illegal for us to wait 30-45 days to get paid by our clients. I've been in business for years and never had a problem. Everyone always gets paid what they are owed. If they don't I provide proof to why they aren't and in this biz there are just some things we don't get paid for. It sucks but some work orders end up a $0 because you forgot a few pics.


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## PPPrincessNOT

I understand where youre coming from but. Theres always gonna be reason for them to try to cut an invoice. My job is to make sure they know not to miss a picture. I see the pictures Im turning in. If one missing I let them know and they get it while they are still there. If I miss it on my qc then shame on me. They did the work picture or no picture. My fight is with the client not the guys busting their hump for me. Ill pay them then Ill fight for the $$, if I lose that fight then its on me.
And Ive never lost a fight. (knock on wood)


Ive been working on bids for 2 days someone send help!! (and chocolate!!):vs_sad:


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## GTX63

madxtreme01 said:


> I pay my guys bi-weekly but only on what I get paid, hence if I don't get paid on a job, neither do they. I have tried it your way and have lost too much money for jobs that were not completed correctly and now the contractor is long gone. I explain that once I receive a check for a specific order, that means that the order has been approved by the client. Until it meets their stringent qc, they don't get paid.


Basic questions-
Are your guys working for you or for the client?
What are your inhouse QC procedures?
What language are you using in your subcontractor agreements regarding lien waivers and payment terms, or what language is in their bids/invoices?


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## madxtreme01

PPPrincessNOT said:


> I understand where youre coming from but. Theres always gonna be reason for them to try to cut an invoice. My job is to make sure they know not to miss a picture. I see the pictures Im turning in. If one missing I let them know and they get it while they are still there. If I miss it on my qc then shame on me. They did the work picture or no picture. My fight is with the client not the guys busting their hump for me. Ill pay them then Ill fight for the $$, if I lose that fight then its on me.
> And Ive never lost a fight. (knock on wood)
> 
> 
> Ive been working on bids for 2 days someone send help!! (and chocolate!!):vs_sad:



The problem with what you are saying is when we are only given 48-72hrs to do a job in the first place, unless someone is in the office to review the pictures while they are still on site, it's either a job gets done correctly the first time and it gets submitted, or your qc tells the crew to go back and it goes late, so it's a loose loose situation. I don't force my guys to use mobile apps since cameras do a much better job. Your in house qc shouldn't be catching what they are not doing correctly. If you have guys that are missing things, then they need to be retrained or replaced. The first few times are ok, but once it becomes habit your in trouble. Also if things are getting cut and you pay your guys the original price, then how do you make money. Anyone that has a subcontractor doing work for them is just like any other regional order mill. The only difference is we don't have 100 people in an office that have no clue what they are doing.


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## madxtreme01

GTX63 said:


> Basic questions-
> Are your guys working for you or for the client?
> What are your inhouse QC procedures?
> What language are you using in your subcontractor agreements regarding lien waivers and payment terms, or what language is in their bids/invoices?


My crews are working for me, however the client sets the requirements, not me, so if they aren't met, there is a chance they will not be paid. In house qc only works if the order isn't due the day you receive the results so you can send the crew back out. If the order is due that day, it's much easier to just submit it, let the crew know they need to fix it, and they may not be paid bc it wasn't done properly, but you will submit additional supporting photos after the fact.

This time of year where we are completing grass cut after grass cut. So if a crew completes 500 grass cuts in a season and misses payment on lets say 10, it's the cost of doing business, you win some, you loose some. This is not a common occurrence, but it happens. Why do you think all of these nationals and regionals force you to wait 30-60 days to get paid? That's because they are waiting to be paid. You will go broke laying out money for jobs that may not be paid for another month or 2, and I have yet to find a local or regional that pays the following week after a job is done. When that happens your an employee making $10/hr


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## PPPrincessNOT

madxtreme01 said:


> The problem with what you are saying is when we are only given 48-72hrs to do a job in the first place, unless someone is in the office to review the pictures while they are still on site, it's either a job gets done correctly the first time and it gets submitted, or your qc tells the crew to go back and it goes late, so it's a loose loose situation. I don't force my guys to use mobile apps since cameras do a much better job. Your in house qc shouldn't be catching what they are not doing correctly. If you have guys that are missing things, then they need to be retrained or replaced. The first few times are ok, but once it becomes habit your in trouble. Also if things are getting cut and you pay your guys the original price, then how do you make money. Anyone that has a subcontractor doing work for them is just like any other regional order mill. The only difference is we don't have 100 people in an office that have no clue what they are doing.


 
My system works perfectly for me. As yours works for you. I have the same 48-72 hour timeframes as you do. My jobs are done right the first time there is no need for me to retrain my guys as they were trained right the first time. BUT we are all human we make mistakes. Hence the QC ... Which isn't my "office staff..." Its ME I am the office staff 7 days a week. (which is how I like it) IF we are busy my daughter comes in and helps, But that's rare. 
As for things getting cut. They don't, knock wood, I have never had a chargeback or an invoice cut.. IMHO Its BECAUSE I qc while they are in the field. And I do make money... I do very well thank you.
I don't subcontract my work either my guys work for me. Bumps bruises and all. 
Been in construction since I was a wee lass been doing PP since well before the crash, be doing it in one form or another long after half the weekend warrior wanna be pp millionaires go belly up and move on. 

M

still working on bids why hasn't anyone sent chocolate yet?:vs_sad:


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## safeguard dropout

Here ya go.


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## GTX63

Raspberry chocolate pie..........


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## PPPrincessNOT

GTX63 said:


> Raspberry chocolate pie..........


and now Im in love:vs_OMG:


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## melmatrix

I currently do work for asons never heard of the clock thing you mention as a matter of fact there one of the best clients i work for and they pay asap i get a deposit daily from them so dont bad mouth them when your lying


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## madxtreme01

deserts look good. Yea we all run our businesses differently. I decided against the employee route as I didn't want to have the responsibility of my crews ruining my equipment and trucks. Also workers comp insurance here is redicuously expensive. Not sure how it is by you, but everything in NJ is expensive. I found it to be much easier this way, besides I do work in a large percentage of my state, I don't want to have to waste the crews time by having to meet at an office daily to pick up the equipment and orders for the day


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## PPPrincessNOT

Its insane expensive here as well... NJ is 3rd and ILL is 7th in the country. If I remember right its like a .20 difference per $100. Im not that far from Chicago so yeah its pricey But Ill gladly spend it to CMA..
My guys are in the office 1x per week thats to pick up their checks and drop off receipts. lol I have a crew that does a distance county for me and I haven't seen them in months. I talk to them every day but I don't see them. My guys have their own equipment, their preference, They know if they need something I have it or Ill get it to them. They also know if the break it they replace it, but that's never been an issue for me.
Lists are sent to the crew leader weekly and they are sent anything else when it comes up. and I always follow it up with a call.
To get back on track... As far as Ason's goes, they are the only PP Co I work for. Everyone else is a bank or investor. I just picked up a few more counties from them and I still only use them to keep everyone busy. I do very well with them and do even better with bid work for them, and the daily pay aint bad either. 
With the whole clock thing I think you were misinformed or someone misspoke. 

M


thank you for my desserts my bids are done and my tummy is happy!:angel:


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## madxtreme01

well I've been contacted by Ason's again, and the recruiter said they had no idea what I was talking about with the 12 angles, and that the person that sent me that info had no idea what they were talking about, so I'm giving them a shot again. I just really like their fast pay. Keeps business afloat and keeps all my guys happy.


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## madxtreme01

here is the form i was referring to


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## madxtreme01

see pic


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## melmatrix

Believe me I've done 1000s of Grasscut never ever did that


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## Craigslist Hack

So you will take low pay and ridiculous requirements in exchange for quick low pay? 

I'm starting to understand why the industry is in the toilet.


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## AceVentura

Craigslist Hack said:


> So you will take low pay and ridiculous requirements in exchange for quick low pay?
> 
> I'm starting to understand why the industry is in the toilet.



**********Correction to line item.

************** This industry is past being in the toilet, it has became the toilet.


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## madxtreme01

Let me reiterate what I was trying to say. I'm not willing to take low pay because it's fast, but we have been working with MCS doing grass cuts for a few years and was doing BOA before that and we were getting about 15-20% higher fees, but payment terms are horrible. To keep my guys happy, us afloat, and have additional volume, it's not enough of a cut to say it isn't worth it. Properties around here are very close together and with minimal travel time, I can still turn a decent profit and pricing is only about 10% less than what a landscaper would charge for a similar service. Yes hud rates would be great, I just haven't been able to find them, but I am able to make a $35 1/4 acre grass cut work when there are 30 of them within 15-20 miles. However 12 angles and interior pics for that same $35, I can't make work.


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## safeguard dropout

madxtreme01 said:


> I can still turn a decent profit and pricing is only about 10% less than what a landscaper would charge for a similar service.


This is what I don't get. You are doing a similar service, AND taking pictures, AND doing uploads, AND screwing with cubies, AND carrying unnecessary billions in insurance, AND buying back round checks, AND risking charge backs, AND mowing on their schedule-not yours...for what? 10% LESS than the going rate? Why?!


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## melmatrix

mad max get that 12 angle out your head it's not true and do what u need to do for your business all you guys talk this and that guess what why wait 45days to get paid as soon as you get that money you owe it all out from borrowing Turn a profit and who cares what these so called big shots say about this and that the business was this listen times have changed and so has pay if masons can pay quick so can mcs and all the other nationals who don't pay carp either


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## Ohnojim

*The "12 angle stuff is just*

your 8 parallel shots and the 4 sides of a typical detached building, these shots are really standard for me, if applicable or possible. I don't see the issue.


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## Craigslist Hack

melmatrix said:


> mad max get that 12 angle out your head it's not true and do what u need to do for your business all you guys talk this and that guess what why wait 45days to get paid as soon as you get that money you owe it all out from borrowing Turn a profit and who cares what these so called big shots say about this and that the business was this listen times have changed and so has pay if masons can pay quick so can mcs and all the other nationals who don't pay carp either



Whoa whoa whoa most of the guys responding here have all or most of their equipment paid for so don't assume anything about them. Breakdown what you are saying it's flat out ignorant. It's clear that a few of you on here haven't been in the business long and don't have a single CLUE what you are doing. You ever heard the old saying "ignorance is bliss" well it must be true because that's the only way anyone could be happy with your program. 

Do you guys even read GTX, Big Daddy, Zuse, Brads Construction, JDRM, Wannabe, That guy from Montana's posts (I'm sure there are a few vets I've overlooked). These guys aren't worried about HUD rates. They set their own pricing based on what they need. There are rare occasions where my pricing is lower than HUD. In this thread you compare yourself to a landscaper but that's not at all what we do. It's like comparing a horse and a zebra they are similar yet very different. 

If you or your "guys" need money that quickly and are willing to work for ridiculous wages to get it you need to reevaluate. There is plenty of money in your market and all you have to do is get it. 

We can afford to wait for our money because we charge enough for our services. Two years ago I started buying properties to keep the guys busy during slow time. We haven't finished any of them because we don't have slow time. I charge whatever I need to charge on jobs and I get it or I stay home. I haven't spent a day at home in several years. You guys are cutting your own throats by keeping these companies in business.


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## GTX63

I had a broker email me twice last week to bid roof repairs on an old duplex.
It isn't a big job but I'm busy, guys are busy, couldn't get over to the house. He finally calls me yesterday and says the bank is really anxious and asks if I can do the work for 2K provided I get it done before Christmas. No bid, no scope of work, he'll send over the approval. The guy at the bank is familiar with our history on their stuff in another state and just wants it done. It is likely a $300-$500 repair my cost. Ok.

Then counter that with ie "GodLovesYou LLC" preservation company that pays $1.20 per ft for a roof repair (before discount) that must be chalked, photographed like a crime scene and included with 12 other bids. In order to cover gas, lottery tickets and McDonalds, the poor slob has to stage repairs and hope QC accepts the work after the fact.

It is like beating a dead horse;This isn't about what you are worth to the first client or what you are worth to the 2nd client; it is about how you value your own worth.


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## madxtreme01

All of you so called veterans have so much work that you can turn down work all day long. I get it, you can get away with charging whatever you want...blah blah blah. I'm not as lucky as you all are with your bragging about getting above hud rates. It's not about how much you can get per job, it's about being profitable at the end of the day. I can make most of the nationals numbers work, do the job correctly and move on. It's the $25 solder on a cap for a leaking pipe that doesn't work. I don't want to drive 40 min to a property to cap 2 lines and head home. Grass cuts are the exception where I can turn a decent profit because I have to right equipment to get it done fast. I run 2 trucks during grass cut season. 1 has a 61" scag cheetah rider and a 36" wright stander and the other truck has a 52" scag cheetah rider and a 36" scag v-ride. We can do a minimum of 4 properties per hour with a 2 man crew and we do really well. I would love to charge $80/cut, but I don't know if I would ever get half the volume I get now to even out the revenue I currently collect.


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## GTX63

Why isnt it about how much you make per job?


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## PropPresPro

melmatrix said:


> . . . listen times have changed and so has pay if masons can pay quick so can mcs and all the other nationals who don't pay carp either


I once did a job for a guy who paid partially with trout. . .wasn't masonry though. . .


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## PropPresPro

Craigslist Hack said:


> . . .That guy from Montana's posts . . .


:vs_peek: 

Snowing up here right now


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## safeguard dropout

madxtreme01 said:


> All of you so called veterans have so much work that you can turn down work all day long. I get it, you can get away with charging whatever you want...blah blah blah. I'm not as lucky as you all are with your bragging about getting above hud rates. It's not about how much you can get per job, it's about being profitable at the end of the day.


Look, I like yard work too. I have since I was a kid. I work for nationals because I can still get 20-25% MORE out of them than private markets here. I do a couple private homes for doctors that are friends, other than that, it's all nationals. When the nationals work gets too watered down, and it will, I'll go get more private work.

You have stated that you are working for 10% LESS than the going private market rate in Jersey, and you are wanting more volume of that? New Jersey is ranked #1 in population density, so there is literally tons of work right out your front door. Why do you insist on working for nationals for less money?! 

Oh, and it most certainly IS about how much you get per job! :vs_worry:


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## BRADSConst

madxtreme01 said:


> All of you so called veterans have so much work that you can turn down work all day long. I get it, you can get away with charging whatever you want...blah blah blah. I'm not as lucky as you all are with your bragging about getting above hud rates.


I'm going to speak on behalf of all the vets here that "brag". Luck has nothing to do with it. Let me say it again, Luck has nothing to do with it.

Hard work has everything to do with it. We don't sit around and answer Craigslist ads. We create relationships. We advertise. We deliver. We determine what our time is worth. The list goes on and on.

I don't actively look for work. Work comes and finds me. Was it always that way, No it wasn't. YOU need to make it happen for YOU. Craigslist is not the place by the way.



madxtreme01 said:


> It's not about how much you can get per job, it's about being profitable at the end of the day.


I beg to differ. If I can end my day at 9am with a one homerun job, why would I take 6 more mediocre jobs to fill out the rest of the day? Actually, I'd fill in the rest of the day with homeruns.



madxtreme01 said:


> I would love to charge $80/cut, but I don't know if I would ever get half the volume I get now to even out the revenue I currently collect.


I don't get this. I'd rather do 2 $80 dollar cuts instead of 4 $40 cuts. It's less work, less wear and tear on myself, my guys, my equipment, etc. Plus it frees up time for other activities, family time, different types of projects. Also, have you really tried raising your rates? I've found that I was able and did increase my rates. What changed for me was my customer base and what work I perform. BUT I was able to raise my rates. You won't know how this will affect you until you try.

It's really about mindset. The regionals and nationals sell this crap called volume. I don't give two chits. I'm not Walmart and have no desire to be. Think about that for a second. Do you really have scale and resources to be Walmart? Cause if you did, your competition would be Safeguard and MCS. You wouldn't be taking work from them.

Once upon a time, I did grass recuts for $25. Now the mowers are parked. People won't pay what I charge but I don't care. My business has evolved and so has my customer base. Yours would too.


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## madxtreme01

there is a big difference between cutting a manicured lawn and a preservation lawn. I can cut a preservation lawn in 1/2 the time and that includes trimming and blowing. Customers are very picky about how it looks and the lines facing this way and being cut in a different direction than last week and pulling weeds from the beds, no weed killer. Preservation is a different story. The only thing the client cares about is preventing a violation. So everything gets knocked down to nothing and then on to the next one. No homeowners coming outside to shoot the breeze. Also maybe because of the population density in NJ is why I am willing to accept slightly less than the landscaper average, heck some places it is much higher. I have a few friends in the landscaping business and they tell me that they have customers that got quoted $45/acre. I wouldn't even take my mower off the trailer for that unless I had the entire block and they all paid in full up front for the entire season. I understand that price per job matters, but not every job can be a home run. Not including travel, what does it actually cost to cut a lawn that takes 20 min with 1 helper? Figure 1 gallon of gas $2, a $12/hr helper costs $2.40, and your time is the companies profit. So at the end of the day each grass cut costs $4.40 plus travel. Around here most of my cuts are within 2-3 miles of each other, so you are talking about another 1/2 gallon of fuel $1, 10 min of a $12/hr helper which is $1.20. This equates to each cut costing $6.60 including labor. I'll cut a 20 min lawn for $40-45 all day long. 


Most days we can cut anywhere between 20-30 with only working from 8-5. With that being said I will low ball the price of the cut to $35. If I use the calculations above it will cost me $108/day in labor and lets say 75 miles of driving is $14 at $2/gallon and my truck getting 12 miles per gallon, and 10 gallons of fuel in the mowers, trimmers, and blowers is another $20. The entire days cost is $142 and we earned $875. I'd say that's a decent day.

Now I know everyone is going to get on my case about insurances, and wear and tear. Let me tell you how I look at it. These costs are fixed. So if I don't go to work that day, I am still responsible for those expenses. However if the $125/acre cuts aren't available to keep me and my crews busy, some work is better than no work. So at least my expenses are getting paid, my helper is happy for having work, and the company still makes a profit of $733 for the day. I have figured out that in order to break even for the year with insurance on my vehicles, business insurance, and licensing, it costs about $5k a year. There is the argument of wear and tear and maintenance on the vehicles and equipment, but again these are fixed costs and the only way these costs go down is if the crew stays home and then I am at a loss.


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## madxtreme01

Will I one day be saying the same things as you? Maybe, but you missed my point about the $80 cuts, what I meant was I would never turn down an $80 cut, but there isn't enough of them for me and my business right now, so I won't turn down the $40 cuts because they are still profitable. I also never said I look for work on craigslist. I actively search for work and if it is profitable, I take what I can get. I don't have people knocking down my doors looking for me to have work done. I have tried to get better quality work and every year I get closer and closer to to achieving that goal, however the nationals have the volume to keep us busy and that is what we rely on. The private investor, realtor, broker, or private customer work does come in, but I don't have enough of it to get rid of the nationals completely.



BRADSConst said:


> I'm going to speak on behalf of all the vets here that "brag". Luck has nothing to do with it. Let me say it again, Luck has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Hard work has everything to do with it. We don't sit around and answer Craigslist ads. We create relationships. We advertise. We deliver. We determine what our time is worth. The list goes on and on.
> 
> I don't actively look for work. Work comes and finds me. Was it always that way, No it wasn't. YOU need to make it happen for YOU. Craigslist is not the place by the way.
> 
> 
> 
> I beg to differ. If I can end my day at 9am with a one homerun job, why would I take 6 more mediocre jobs to fill out the rest of the day? Actually, I'd fill in the rest of the day with homeruns.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get this. I'd rather do 2 $80 dollar cuts instead of 4 $40 cuts. It's less work, less wear and tear on myself, my guys, my equipment, etc. Plus it frees up time for other activities, family time, different types of projects. Also, have you really tried raising your rates? I've found that I was able and did increase my rates. What changed for me was my customer base and what work I perform. BUT I was able to raise my rates. You won't know how this will affect you until you try.
> 
> It's really about mindset. The regionals and nationals sell this crap called volume. I don't give two chits. I'm not Walmart and have no desire to be. Think about that for a second. Do you really have scale and resources to be Walmart? Cause if you did, your competition would be Safeguard and MCS. You wouldn't be taking work from them.
> 
> Once upon a time, I did grass recuts for $25. Now the mowers are parked. People won't pay what I charge but I don't care. My business has evolved and so has my customer base. Yours would too.


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## melmatrix

You so called vets talk down on us like we're beneath you guys hey I will work for a 40$ recut oh by the way since you guys are so successful why don't you guys sub some work my way and become regionals and pay daily double on your area and make more cash oh wait you can't some of you guys aren't very friendly or informative it's like you bash us for trying to make a living well yeah I'm only going on my 3rd season but I bust my butt everyday I have the same love and passion if not more then you guys maybe one day we can get in you guys level but always remember you wasn't always on top


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## BRADSConst

melmatrix said:


> You so called vets talk down on us like we're beneath you guys hey I will work for a 40$ recut oh by the way since you guys are so successful why don't you guys sub some work my way and become regionals and pay daily double on your area and make more cash oh wait you can't some of you guys aren't very friendly or informative it's like you bash us for trying to make a living well yeah I'm only going on my 3rd season but I bust my butt everyday I have the same love and passion if not more then you guys maybe one day we can get in you guys level but always remember you wasn't always on top


 You got to be kidding me. You must have difficulty in comprehension (this is me talking down on you). Almost every single vet on here does nothing but try to help people. Talking down, you gotta be kidding me. We try to steer and guide. However, we're not going to do it for you.

Some of the Vets do sub work. Some are regionals or were regionals. I sub work. Difference is my subs bid to me and then I add what I need/want/think I can get. I have no desire to sub tons of work at crap prices to get crap results. Sorry, a regional is not where I'm at nor want to be. 

No one is trying to bash. Again, read and comprehend what is being said. Just because you don't like what you are being told doesn't mean any of us are bashing. Hell, In my last post I specifically said I did $25/recuts once upon a time. So yeah, I remember I wasn't always at the top and realize I'm still nowhere near the top. 

Furthermore, I bust my ass everyday too. I work in the field with my guys and doing bidding, invoicing, marketing at night and weekends. Difference is I bust my ass for myself, my family, my business, my subs and yes, my employees too. I don't bust my ass for any regionals or nationals at their rates. Pay my rates or find someone else. I don't care.....


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## BRADSConst

madxtreme01 said:


> Will I one day be saying the same things as you? Maybe, but you missed my point about the $80 cuts, what I meant was I would never turn down an $80 cut, but there isn't enough of them for me and my business right now, so I won't turn down the $40 cuts because they are still profitable. I also never said I look for work on craigslist. I actively search for work and if it is profitable, I take what I can get. I don't have people knocking down my doors looking for me to have work done. I have tried to get better quality work and every year I get closer and closer to to achieving that goal, however the nationals have the volume to keep us busy and that is what we rely on. The private investor, realtor, broker, or private customer work does come in, but I don't have enough of it to get rid of the nationals completely.


 I didn't miss your point. You can make a $40 cut profitable, that's great. My point is there are $80 cuts, or $50 cube trashouts, or $700/SQ roofs, or whatever you are looking for. It takes work, and relationships to get them to come to you.

The issue is was trying to explain, and probably poorly is, is the opportunity cost. There is only so much work that can be accomplished with the amount of resources a business has. There is also only a finite amount of time in any given day. My point is don't lose sight of working on the business instead of in the business. When I was doing $25 recuts, I had no time left over to work on the business because I was so focused on working in the business. It was at that stage in my business evolution that I believed that the Vets on here were crazy and I couldn't get those rates.

I have never been offered or did a $350 wint. However, I've been offered $250 wints. I know that the elusive Jack-a-lope exists!

You admit that realtor, investor and private work comes in. Foster that. Work on that. Make that happen. Then you'll be the crabby vet on here trying to explain to others that it is possible for them too. Good Luck


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## NCnewbie

Some of the vets here do sub work and sub it to other users on this site. I will personally vouch for that. I know that several others do it as well. That vet has been the best thing to happen to my business. Through their mentoring I've learned more than I ever would of on my own. I listened to them on every detail from what work truck and mower to buy to how to pull a shingle up. Not that I didn't know that stuff, the point is listening and valuing what someone is taking their time to teach.


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## safeguard dropout

madxtreme01 said:


> All of you so called veterans have so much work that you can turn down work all day long. I get it, you can get away with charging whatever you want...blah blah blah. I'm not as lucky as you all are


I'm certainly not a veteran, but I'm a whole lot more educated than I was 6 months ago, thanks mostly to the veterans on this forum. Still learning just how crooked this racket is. 

My only point is this; you are selling yourself short a $35 recut, whether it's PP or private work....but...to each his own and I wish you better "luck" in the future.


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## melmatrix

I'm not saying that this site is not helpful cause it is I'm not the one to not open my ears and listen my thing is there's different levels in this business and we all have goals mines is to be successful in what I do I'm just working on my level until I grow


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## Craigslist Hack

melmatrix said:


> I'm not saying that this site is not helpful cause it is I'm not the one to not open my ears and listen my thing is there's different levels in this business and we all have goals mines is to be successful in what I do I'm just working on my level until I grow


Actually I think we all empathize with you in this regard. Most of us were in a similar place at one time or another. 

What we learned though was if we would have mad the change sooner we would have had far less headaches and lost a lot less money. We could also have spent more time with our families.


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## GTX63

Most of my stories posted are meant to be educational, motivational or humorous.
I don't get a rush beating on anyone. My goal as a business owner is to have as much freedom as possible with as little regulation as possible, either from government or otherwise. This is the only site in the industry that I am aware of that continually tries to educate and steer contractors away from the claws of the carpet bagging parasites that continue to break laws and bankrupt the little guy.
Private clients give you what? Word of mouth, references, and sometimes even a tip. When was the last time a national did any of those?
We gained many new customers by simply watching us mow a foreclosed property, so I would disagree that the standards are much different.
I also have yet to have a homeowner call me and tell me they haven't cut their yard in 2 1/2 years and want it 9th hole ready in 48 hours.
How new members perceive the stories is up to them. You can learn from my mistakes, for free, or you can go make your own version of my stories, on your dime.
It is going to take some self evaluation.

I'll repeat a very good quote- "Some people are contractors and others are employees, they just don't know it yet."


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## ANSprop

I am looking to get in with asons anyone have a number I might call I am in south NJ, Philadelphia Area?


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## Craigslist Hack

ANSprop said:


> I am looking to get in with asons anyone have a number I might call I am in south NJ, Philadelphia Area?



So you also want low pay ridiculous requirements stupid charge backs and a million phone calls a day?

I'm selling a "get Rich slow" program. If you send me $300.00 a week I will personally mentor you and write a very specific "success" program for you and your company. Our focus will be "how to make money on 15.00 grass cuts!"

The name of my program is "the Craigslist System" it's an industry specific success manual that will teach you all the tricks or "hacks" as we like to call them that will make you profitable. 

I can't give you examples here but when you sign up for the program all the secrets can be yours.


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## safeguard dropout

Craigslist Hack said:


> I can't give you examples here but when you sign up for the program all the secrets can be yours.


I want in but you failed to leave a contact number. Is this a scam?


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## madxtreme01

I know you are trying to help people in a sarcastic and twisted way, but not all nationals are crap and not everyone has had a bad experience with the same nationals. Yes private work is better, but I have had a lot of success with different nationals over the years and if someone could make a companies numbers work, then why turn down work that someone would otherwise not have.


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## K&L preservation

If you can turn a profit and are happy with it then more power to you. But I think when you accept low pay and or getting paid next day is what keeps the prices where they are. Its become like a rat infestation where there is one person accepting less then half of the going rate there are 10 more just like them. And hey when I was 23 and first started out I thought I was making a killing doing $25 grass cuts and $18 a cyd lmao. Til the first check came. I went back 3 yrs later and figured everything up, I paid them 35k in one yr. Now most my work is private, and I do have 2 nationals. Jist never accept and roll over. If they say 35, you say 45. Its your business after all.


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## BRADSConst

madxtreme01 said:


> but not all nationals are crap and not everyone has had a bad experience with the same nationals. Yes private work is better, but I have had a lot of success with different nationals over the years and if someone could make a companies numbers work, then why turn down work that someone would otherwise not have.


Yes, they are. However crap is a relative term. Servicelink might be less crappy than Safeguard. However, each has its own crap. The amount of pictures, the turn times, the pay terms, chargebacks, coverage area, the list goes on. 

As for why turn down the work, did you read my post on opportunity cost? Did you think about and contemplate what I was trying to say? I'm sure even you turn down work. Some crappy national, I dunno, say Cyprexx or VRM, offers a flat rate deal. Can you make the absolute numbers work? Maybe. Is the opportunity cost worth it? Hell no.

I'm positive that I could make a $25 recut work. I could do it and make a few bucks. But why? I could take that same labor and equipment and make more money elsewhere.

Here is an example for me personally. I used to do FNMA roofs. I was getting $195-$225 square for tear off and replacement. I could still be doing them and making a few hundred bucks a day. 

However, now my roofing rates start around $325/SQ and go up from there. I recently did a one layer ranch @$368/SQ. The work is exactly the same. Same tools, same materials, same employees. What changed was my customer base. Now I make 1 to 2 grand a day, before Uncle Sam.

I'm getting older, I know I have a finite amount of time to make my egg so I can hit my retirement goals. The most important thing for my business is time. Other than myself, it is also the only thing that I can not replace. So, opportunity cost is always on my mind.


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## ANSprop

I am not new to the business. Signing up is just what it is. If the prices or jobs are not cost effective to turn a profit.. I walk away.


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## madxtreme01

I think we all want to make the most amount of money possible, and that doesn't mean by having the most volume. A few quality jobs per week will definitely replace the dozens of crappy ones, but if there is enough time why not do both? I am young, I am only 34 and I have 2 children. I also live in one of the most expensive states in the us, so if I can turn a profit that is enough to make my time worth it, I will not turn down the work. You're right, the flat rates never work, but a $25 recut absolutely will, during the summer I never turn down grass cuts unless it's an acre for that same $25, or an hour outside of my service area. My crews are willing to travel to anywhere within reasonable distance if the job pays the correct amount that makes everyone happy.


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## MNP&P

madxtreme01 said:


> A few quality jobs per week will definitely replace the dozens of crappy ones, but if there is enough time why not do both?


Why not take the time spent running around doing dozens of crappy jobs to find a few more quality jobs? Or spend some time with your kids? Or go fishing?

I am 34 as well, but have come to understand the value of my time. I know what my services are worth and I charge accordingly. If a client does not want to pay my rates, I don't do the work. The way I see it If the numbers wont work for me there will always be some hack out the that thinks they are making bank at $25/cut/plow/HPIR/cyd/etc.... to willingly take the work.


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## safeguard dropout

madxtreme01 said:


> .....why not do both? ......



Because as simply as it can possibly be said for spending time on $25 grass cuts....

"it's a dime holding up a dollar"


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## madxtreme01

There is a lot more than just $25 per recut that goes into knowing if it is profitable or not. I don't have any companies that are offering anything that low, but if it was 5000sq ft lots all within a 10 mile radius and there was hundreds of them, then I can definitely make it work. I know volume doesn't always make low numbers worth it, but when you factor in that in that small of an area and that small of a property, you can easily complete 6 per hour. I'll work for $150/hr all day long.


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## MNP&P

Personally never had a problem with Asons. They pay well on mileage and usually approve OTA pricing from site over the phone.

I can't say I have had any amount of volume with them though, mostly one time grass knockdowns and a couple of lock-changes a year.

I can imagine if one were doing rehabs or a lot of high dollar work orders the fast pay could be beneficial.


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## Craigslist Hack

madxtreme01 said:


> There is a lot more than just $25 per recut that goes into knowing if it is profitable or not. I don't have any companies that are offering anything that low, but if it was 5000sq ft lots all within a 10 mile radius and there was hundreds of them, then I can definitely make it work. I know volume doesn't always make low numbers worth it, but when you factor in that in that small of an area and that small of a property, you can easily complete 6 per hour. I'll work for $150/hr all day long.


I never want to complete 6 grass cuts an hour!


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## MNP&P

Craigslist Hack said:


> I never want to complete 6 grass cuts an hour!


I am with you there, I would rather complete the $300 recut in that hour!!


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## PropPresPro

MNP&P said:


> I am with you there, I would rather complete the $300 recut in that hour!!


Or better yet, the $1500+ recut, shrub & tree trim!


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## madxtreme01

I'll take all 3 and smile all day long. I have 3 crews during the grass cut season so depending on their ability and equipment, I can spread the work out very easily so we are all happy.


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## Bigtrucker

madxtreme01 said:


> There is a lot more than just $25 per recut that goes into knowing if it is profitable or not. I don't have any companies that are offering anything that low, but if it was 5000sq ft lots all within a 10 mile radius and there was hundreds of them, then I can definitely make it work. I know volume doesn't always make low numbers worth it, but when you factor in that in that small of an area and that small of a property, you can easily complete 6 per hour. I'll work for $150/hr all day long.



6 cuts per hour = 48 a day 8 hour shift if you work through lunch lets say 51 cuts a day
Will you work Philly area


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## madxtreme01

Bigtrucker said:


> 6 cuts per hour = 48 a day 8 hour shift if you work through lunch lets say 51 cuts a day
> Will you work Philly area


Philly is too far from me, but based on my experience in the inner city, anywhere where row homes exist where you have to go through the house to get to the lawn, is not profitable. It's also a waste of time, and a liability issue. All of a sudden you get a call from your supplier and they inform you that some personals are missing or there is damage to the house that you were in the house, you should know or you should have seen it and reported it. It's a mess waiting to happen. I'll do 1/4 acre lots all day long though. Fences, no fences, doesn't matter. We run 36" stand on machines that blow through those small properties.


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## G 3

I'm STILL trying to figure out how you manage to get 6 cuts an hour...:vs_worry:


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## Craigslist Hack

G 3 said:


> I'm STILL trying to figure out how you manage to get 6 cuts an hour...:vs_worry:


I'm more of a slow ride take it easy kind of guy!


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## GTX63

There are reasons I keep this guy on a 1099.


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## safeguard dropout

Awesome video GTX. Can't stop LMAO! "My beer's gonna get HOT man!!!"





G 3 said:


> I'm STILL trying to figure out how you manage to get 6 cuts an hour...:vs_worry:


He doesn't, maybe one all out blitz hour but not all day. Here's a a quote from 8/25 on the $25 grass cut thread. 6x8=48

"I have done 40 in a day with a 2nd guy. We pull up, he gets out and starts taking pictures. I unload the trailer and start cutting, he gets the trimmer and takes some during shots. By the time I get to my last pass with the mower he is finished cleaning up and we are on to the next one. It's more about close proximity than volume."


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## G 3

Seems he's having a small problem keeping his facts and stories straight.


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## Craigslist Hack

G 3 said:


> Seems he's having a small problem keeping his facts and stories straight.



In the past that's when a new forum member suddenly appears.


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## madxtreme01

G 3 said:


> I'm STILL trying to figure out how you manage to get 6 cuts an hour...:vs_worry:



It's not really 6 cuts an hour, it's more like 4, but I have done 6 with 2 guys. When the properties are that close together it is very possible


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## G 3

So, with your $25 grass cut, you have to pay TWO people, plus wear and tear, fuel, plus profit for the business, and all the miscellaneous items for the business (Insurance, paper, toner, stamps, etc.). And this is profitable how?


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## madxtreme01

G 3 said:


> So, with your $25 grass cut, you have to pay TWO people, plus wear and tear, fuel, plus profit for the business, and all the miscellaneous items for the business (Insurance, paper, toner, stamps, etc.). And this is profitable how?



I don't have $25 cuts, but I do take $35 cuts and yes it could be profitable. Me and a helper. As long as the properties are fairly close the 4 per hour is our goal. Some hours we don't hit it, but then other hours, we hit the 6 mark and it makes up for the hour we did 3. Drive time is the biggest killer, not actually doing the work. If you have the right equipment, any job will be faster and easier. Look back a few posts about my figuring of cost per hour to do these cuts and you will see it makes it worth it. BTW in your figuring of expenses, you mentioned stamps... You actually still mail things? I haven't bought a book of stamps yet. Last time I purchased stamps was to mail out the thank you cards after my wedding.


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## melmatrix

lol stamps now madextreme I could see how you could definitely turn a profit even if it was 25$ a cut 6 cuts and hr if it was a 12 he day that's 1800 a day pay 2 helpers say about 150$ each leaves you with 1500$ it could definitely pay everything and buy you stamps these guys are crazy but seriously your absolutely right


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## madxtreme01

melmatrix said:


> lol stamps now madextreme I could see how you could definitely turn a profit even if it was 25$ a cut 6 cuts and hr if it was a 12 he day that's 1800 a day pay 2 helpers say about 150$ each leaves you with 1500$ it could definitely pay everything and buy you stamps these guys are crazy but seriously your absolutely right



to each their own, if I had all $80 cuts and as much as I wanted, I would turn down the $25-35 cuts also, unfortunately I don't have those clients, I couldn't even get that for an acre if I did residential customers on occupied homes, the going rate here is much lower because there is too much competition. I've heard of guys getting $45/acre and I would rather do a preservation lawn for $60/acre and no one care how good of a job it is. 1 pass on an unfertilized lawn is all it takes, and trimming once every few cuts is sufficient also, especially in the middle of the summer when nothing grows.


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## G 3

madxtreme01 said:


> BTW in your figuring of expenses, you mentioned stamps... You actually still mail things? I haven't bought a book of stamps yet. Last time I purchased stamps was to mail out the thank you cards after my wedding.


The stamp thing is to bring attention to the smallest things in business that are often overlooked as expenses. I have my business expenses calculated down to the penny. There will be no surprise expenses for me at the end of the year. And, yes, I still mail things out. You don't? Christmas cards to my private clients, and price sheets that are printed on heavy parchment type paper with matching envelopes, and a couple of heavy business cards. And, yes, I still use email as well.



melmatrix said:


> lol stamps ... these guys are crazy ...


Yes, stamps... see above. You'd be surprised what a personal touch can do for your business. With your comments, I don't think you understand what a personal touch of business can do for you these days.


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## Bottomfeeder

*Be Careful of ASONS Rehabs*

Their scope of work rarely covers all items that need repaired. Especially and including Code Issues. Get everything in writing before you begin additional items as they will push for getting it done asap and drag their feet on confirming pricing and then cut. They also recover costs thru their QC inspections.


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## madxtreme01

G 3 said:


> The stamp thing is to bring attention to the smallest things in business that are often overlooked as expenses. I have my business expenses calculated down to the penny. There will be no surprise expenses for me at the end of the year. And, yes, I still mail things out. You don't? Christmas cards to my private clients, and price sheets that are printed on heavy parchment type paper with matching envelopes, and a couple of heavy business cards. And, yes, I still use email as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, stamps... see above. You'd be surprised what a personal touch can do for your business. With your comments, I don't think you understand what a personal touch of business can do for you these days.



As far as christmas cards and such like a small christmas present even, for your private broker that might be giving you tons of work, yes the personal touch is important, but for that scum national you might be getting work from, they could care less about you or the other 200 vendors that they manage, all they care about is your scorecard.


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## JoeInPI

madxtreme01 said:


> As far as christmas cards and such like a small christmas present even, for your private broker that might be giving you tons of work, yes the personal touch is important, but for that scum national you might be getting work from, they could care less about you or the other 200 vendors that they manage, all they care about is your scorecard.


Right- that's why I don't work for any "scum nationals", and instead have a bunch of great local brokers and clients that get Christmas Cards, small gifts, and personal visits to let them know that I appreciate their business. It doesn't matter if they give me "tons of work" or one order. I don't know who they will be in 6 months, but I'll be first on their list when they have work. Several have turned from one order per year to one order per week- or more.


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## MPSFIRM

They do not pay very well, but they pay QUICK. Same day, and their processing is SUPER easy.


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## melmatrix

the pricing was good but dropped there still very fair and will pay whatever they owe I like my coordinators management there very good at what they do they make you feel appreciated not like these other b.s. companies


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## Craigslist Hack

melmatrix said:


> the pricing was good but dropped there still very fair and will pay whatever they owe I like my coordinators management there very good at what they do they make you feel appreciated not like these other b.s. companies



Cash makes me feel appreciated but I guess I'm old school.:vs_cool:


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