# AFAS what a joke



## Splinterpicker

I get a call from a realtor who has been waiting a ***** age for AFAS to do a wint and with the sudden drop in temps his asset manager said go ahead and have a contractor do it. I get to the place and low and behold AFAS has done it 1 day after he had last been at t eh property. I begin to look and the property is NOT done right. (1) DRAINED water heater breaker NOT taped or turned OFF ! (2) master well house breaker not taped or shut off. So when the power is turned on ( this week by AFAS) these idiots would have flooded the house ! MInd you that I used to be an AFAS monkey and did enjoy the ride many many years when it was profitable ! I call the realtor and he says to do what I can and submit a bill. I did not blow the system just dumped antifreeze down the traps and taped the breakers and inspected ! 

Thoughts Does AFAS still require the following ??

(1) pictures of the water heater ( which was drained) breaker turned off and taped 
(2) Pictures of the well tank or street water meter with the latter zip tied ??
(3) There are MANY other parts of this job that are sub standard or not done but that would just give away which botched job it is of theirs !

Sure seems like this one got pushed through without QC knowing what the hell they are looking at !

NOW the asset manager and AFAS are having a go around and afas is denying the wint was done wrong. I'd say if I was the asset manager, assuming they cant see the pictures on AFAS's website, you have 20 minutes to Email me ALL the pictures of this wint or you WILL reimburse us for the entire initial svc! Afas is so hypercritical if they need something from a vendor it is NOW but if they have to prove a point they just deny it and don't care. I'm GLAD I parted ways with these IDIOTS


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## Mason0127

*Afas*

Sooo what your saying is don't send them back all the paperwork for sign on back to them? Are they really that bad to work for as a vendor?do they pay?


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## Splinterpicker

depends on what you want your hair or making a heavy investment in sun tan lotion for your bald head in a few years ? It depends on your situation. If you really want to get trained hard then as I did network with all the realtors and do work for them alone Yes go to work for AFAS. Im just trying to say here that they have really botched this one up and wont accept the FACT that is was NOT done correctly.


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## JMarsden92

*Afas*

They require:
Water heater showing hose connected for draining
Water main shut off and zip tied
Air compressor hooked up to water system
Air compressor hooked up to boiler system
Photo of compressor
Photo of hoses from compressor to systems
Photos showing antifreeze being applied
Photos showing toilets emptied before antifreeze
Photos showing wrap and sign applied to toilet
Photos showing signs on sinks, etc.
Photos showing breakers taped off

AFAS is not bad to work for. Some people are just bitter that they are the last decent company, but the first to require all of the new regulations... E&O, and such. I am with them @ 15 months, and I enjoy working with them.


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## Donkey17

AFAS is by far not one of the last decent companies to work for.. They are one of the crappiest to work for.. They rank up there with Safescrew, MCS, Cyprexx to name a few..I'm telling them to go pound sand as we speak


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## BPWY

Splinterpicker said:


> depends on what you want your hair or making a heavy investment in sun tan lotion for your bald head in a few years ? It depends on your situation. If you really want to get trained hard then as I did network with all the realtors and do work for them alone Yes go to work for AFAS. Im just trying to say here that they have really botched this one up and wont accept the FACT that is was NOT done correctly.





Donkey17 said:


> AFAS is by far not one of the last decent companies to work for.. They are one of the crappiest to work for.. They rank up there with Safescrew, MCS, Cyprexx to name a few..I'm telling them to go pound sand as we speak






Lets be real and serious for a second. 
Are there *ANY* decent, reliable nationals to work for any more?
Nearly all regionals I could ask the same question about.

I'm talking about companies that are fair to their contractors, pay in a decent amount of time, 30 days or less and don't unreasonably back charge.........

I couldn't find any that fit those standards...... I quit P&P 2 or 3 years ago.


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## Donkey17

BPWY.. What are you doing now and I have one national that I deal with that pays before 30 days and is easy to work with.. but the catch is they don't have a lot of work


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## BPWY

Donkey17 said:


> BPWY.. What are you doing now and I have one national that I deal with that pays before 30 days and is easy to work with.. but the catch is they don't have a lot of work






Lawn care and snow removal.


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## Craigslist Hack

BPWY said:


> Lets be real and serious for a second.
> Are there *ANY* decent, reliable nationals to work for any more?
> Nearly all regionals I could ask the same question about.
> 
> I'm talking about companies that are fair to their contractors, pay in a decent amount of time, 30 days or less and don't unreasonably back charge.........
> 
> I couldn't find any that fit those standards...... I quit P&P 2 or 3 years ago.


The answer is no. They all work for the same clients and have to play by the same rules. The whole thing is imploding in slow motion.


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## Craigslist Hack

JMarsden92 said:


> They require:
> Water heater showing hose connected for draining
> Water main shut off and zip tied
> Air compressor hooked up to water system
> Air compressor hooked up to boiler system
> Photo of compressor
> Photo of hoses from compressor to systems
> Photos showing antifreeze being applied
> Photos showing toilets emptied before antifreeze
> Photos showing wrap and sign applied to toilet
> Photos showing signs on sinks, etc.
> Photos showing breakers taped off
> 
> AFAS is not bad to work for. Some people are just bitter that they are the last decent company, but the first to require all of the new regulations... E&O, and such. I am with them @ 15 months, and I enjoy working with them.


If you can work for AFAS and stay happy good for you. They are TERRIBLE absolutely TERRIBLE Ican't imagine why anyone would tolerate their crap. The pay is low, the QC expectations are ridiculous, and they make up the charge backs as they go. I knew a great company that worked for them. They are out of business today because they couldn't get paid.


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## SJPI

I worked for a company, let's say the name is A*S. I would get ridiculous chargebacks. At the end of the month I'd get my monthly invoice showing payables and chargebacks. I'd appeal to the auditors saying the work was done and tell them to look at the photos. Instead of them taking the time to review the photos, they would just reverse the chargebacks due to being overwhelmed and kinda lazy...ah the good old days.


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## JMarsden92

*Why*

Why do you troll the preservation discussions then? You are not one of us. You couldn't stick it out, or couldn't do the job right. I love hearing about this one doesn't pay... this one backcharges... this one (*^^)^. Maybe has anyone ever looked at maybe they didn't do their job right. It isn't always the company. I don't know how many people sit their and just do the office work and don't actually touch the work.



BPWY said:


> Lets be real and serious for a second.
> Are there *ANY* decent, reliable nationals to work for any more?
> Nearly all regionals I could ask the same question about.
> 
> I'm talking about companies that are fair to their contractors, pay in a decent amount of time, 30 days or less and don't unreasonably back charge.........
> 
> I couldn't find any that fit those standards...... I quit P&P 2 or 3 years ago.


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## JMarsden92

*If AFAS is.....*

Post your rates... Let's see who weighs in best...


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## GTX63

JMarsden92 said:


> Why do you troll the preservation discussions then? You are not one of us. You couldn't stick it out, or couldn't do the job right. I love hearing about this one doesn't pay... this one backcharges... this one (*^^)^. Maybe has anyone ever looked at maybe they didn't do their job right. It isn't always the company. I don't know how many people sit their and just do the office work and don't actually touch the work.


Preservation work and nationals seemed to be mixed together on here a lot, and most of the times it is by contractors who don't know the difference.
I see absolutely terrible qc work by subs every week. They don't do their jobs right. Actually, if they didn't have nationals, they wouldn't have any customers.


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## GTX63

JMarsden92 said:


> Post your rates... Let's see who weighs in best...


Are you asking for the going rates for preservation work outside of the nationals?


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## Craigslist Hack

JMarsden92 said:


> Why do you troll the preservation discussions then? You are not one of us. You couldn't stick it out, or couldn't do the job right. I love hearing about this one doesn't pay... this one backcharges... this one (*^^)^. Maybe has anyone ever looked at maybe they didn't do their job right. It isn't always the company. I don't know how many people sit their and just do the office work and don't actually touch the work.


I would agree with you that 90% of those who complain are doing so when they are the ones at fault. However the rules are set up to make a contractor fail. They want something for nothing such as cleaning sinks and toilets with winterizations. We used to charge seperate for that and still can if they are absolutely bombed out but many nationals no longer pay on a regular wint if there isn't a pic of a toilet brush in the bowl. We refuse as a company to even open a dirty fridge or rake leaves. We don't want to do those things they slow us down and don't pay crap. Nationals such as AFAS try to force you to do these things. We will gladly mow the leaves or throw away the fridge but we refuse to rake or clean. 

I am in business for myself and if I do everything on their checklist to their liking then really I am in business for them. We are subcontractors not employees. I would say with utmost confidence that if you are making good money and getting along fine with AFAS you would be killing it with a real company. If you are that talented you are wasting your time in the mickey mouse leagues when you should be playing pro. That is a compliment not a dig some guys on here get easily confused.

Myself, BWY, Big Daddy, GTX, and occasionally Zuse are proponents of running your own company doing your own work the way you want to do it. No one is trolling boards in fact most are trying to help guys keep from getting screwed.


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Are you asking for the going rates for preservation work outside of the nationals?


I just worked out at the gym with a guy who has been charging $425.00 for a pressure test.


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## PropPresPro

JMarsden92 said:


> Post your rates... Let's see who weighs in best...


 
Pay schedules are not the only factor to consider, and quite frankly are not even in my top 5 considerations when researching a potential client. I have had companies offer me more money than I currently receive from others and yet I still turned their offers down. 

For me, the decision to work for a company or not is solely based on that companies reputaion when it comes to how much control they want to have over my business operations. 
Do they require me to enter into a lopsided vendor agreement or contract that effectively takes away ALL my rights and remedies, and gives them the power to be my Judge, Jury and Executioner? Will they attempt to force me into their version of 'compliance'? Will they QC completed work and/or invoices with the intent of deciphering ways to not pay me? Will they communicate with me when there are any problems that might arise and give me the opportunity to present my side of things - or give me the opportunity to fix the problem? Do they have an A++ reputation with my peers when it comes to on-time payments? Will they stand up for me to their client when their client starts to push them around? Will they communicate with me, even if _they_ have made a mistake that needs to be immediately remedied? 

In other words, do I trust them?


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## GTX63

Craigslist Hack said:


> I just worked out at the gym with a guy who has been charging $425.00 for a pressure test.


Would he empty the mailbox and take the Crown Royal bottles off the front porch for the same money?


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Would he empty the mailbox and take the Crown Royal bottles off the front porch for the same money?


Right now the Crown Royal bottles would be frozen to the porch. I feel like he would charge extra for that.....?:yes:

I would sure like to know how busy he is and who his clients are. I typically charge $125.00 for a pressure test and repairs are bid out based on what the pressure test tells us.


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## hammerhead

Craigslist Hack said:


> Right now the Crown Royal bottles would be frozen to the porch. I feel like he would charge extra for that.....?:yes:
> 
> I would sure like to know how busy he is and who his clients are. I typically charge $125.00 for a pressure test and repairs are bid out based on what the pressure test tells us.


the 1 broker i do work for pays me $300 for pressure test and fix 3 leaks. Over 3 and i bid it.


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## Splinterpicker

WHOA WHOA WHOA Let me rein in the horses here. I worked for FAS and my vendor contractor # was in the 1200 range. SO with that said I was with them till last year when I decided their direction was not a good fit to my business model... Making a profit and not getting run through the mill. SOOOOOOOO Madson when you have been with them for over 10 years let me know. I want to re focus this thread back on track ! I was just flabbergasted by the LACK of QC follow up on this asset. That's ALL NO more NO LESS. YES we have all seen ****ty work but this took the cake... A property clearly in the country and not fed by a municipal source ??? For the love of the all mighty LOOK FOR A WELL.


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## Craigslist Hack

hammerhead said:


> the 1 broker i do work for pays me $300 for pressure test and fix 3 leaks. Over 3 and i bid it.


Guess who just raised their price?:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I would never have dreamed I wasn't charging enough for any service. All I ever hear is that we are the highest bid they received. I explained I don't want volume just homeruns.


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## BRADSConst

Craigslist Hack said:


> I explained I don't want volume just homeruns.


 Amen to that!:thumbsup:


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## BRADSConst

JMarsden92 said:


> Why do you troll the preservation discussions then? You are not one of us. You couldn't stick it out, or couldn't do the job right.


Get real. BPWY is a Moderator and was one since this was spun off ContractorTalk. I guess I'm also a "troll" then as I haven't done a P&P work order for a Regional in over two years and a National in over a year. For what it's worth, I still rehab for FNMA, Freddie and will do roofs for PAS. I love to talk to all the P&P guys that stop by and are glad they don't have to do the refresh as it pays chit.

You would do much better for yourself, family, employees, etc. if you listened to the "Trolls" and Vets. They have figured out what their value is and are willing to find clients, including brokers, private customers, commercial customers and even a national or two that WILL pay what these guys and gals are worth.

I just turned down working for a company subbing P&P work. Pay for dry wintz was $200 a pop. Trashouts were per MY bid, no $/CYD bull crap. Why you ask? Because it was a requirement to add them as additionally insured on my policy. Screw that. A certificate holder wasn't good enough for them. Would you do the same???


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## hammerhead

Craigslist Hack said:


> Guess who just raised their price?:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> I would never have dreamed I wasn't charging enough for any service. All I ever hear is that we are the highest bid they received. I explained I don't want volume just homeruns.


I have you and a couple others to thank because unlike some others on here I listened. PP wasnt too bad as it got me in the door with the Realtors.


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## hammerhead

BRADSConst said:


> Get real. BPWY is a Moderator and was one since this was spun off ContractorTalk. I guess I'm also a "troll" then as I haven't done a P&P work order for a Regional in over two years and a National in over a year. For what it's worth,* I still rehab for FNMA, Freddie *and will do roofs for PAS. I love to talk to all the P&P guys that stop by and are glad they don't have to do the refresh as it pays chit.
> 
> You would do much better for yourself, family, employees, etc. if you listened to the "Trolls" and Vets. They have figured out what their value is and are willing to find clients, including brokers, private customers, commercial customers and even a national or two that WILL pay what these guys and gals are worth.
> 
> I just turned down working for a company subbing P&P work. Pay for dry wintz was $200 a pop. Trashouts were per MY bid, no $/CYD bull crap. Why you ask? Because it was a requirement to add them as additionally insured on my policy. Screw that. A certificate holder wasn't good enough for them. Would you do the same???


This is the nitch that i have been doing for a yr now. Nice to only take a few before and a few after pics and NO PCR. They have me go to a property and see if i can do it for so ans so amount of $$$. I say yes or no and no questions asked if i turn it down. Also as you said no additional insured and NO DAM E&O crap.:thumbup:


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## BRADSConst

hammerhead said:


> This is the nitch that i have been doing for a yr now. Nice to only take a few before and a few after pics and NO PCR. They have me go to a property and see if i can do it for so ans so amount of $$$. I say yes or no and no questions asked if i turn it down. Also as you said no additional insured and NO DAM E&O crap.:thumbup:


 Yep. I get an address, lock box code, scope of work and a dollar amount. I can take it or leave it. While the rates aren't private customer, they are better than P&P.

I don't even take before pics. Usually no during either, unless I need to prove I'm resheathing a roof, tearing off multiple layers, etc. All my pictures are after's and broker sign off. No PCR, only paperwork I submit is my invoice. All I need is GL and a copy of my contractors license. :thumbsup:

I do have an exit strategy for this as well though. Private party work has recovered very nicely around here. I'm stretched too thin, something has to give and it's going to be these rehabs.


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## Wannabe

Brad a troll? LOL  

Cheesehead yes hahaha


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## Splinterpicker

hammerhead said:


> I have you and a couple others to thank because unlike some others on here I listened. PP wasnt too bad as it got me in the door with the Realtors.


You have Learned well young padajuan ! That's all I do anymore to supplement my 5 to 3 job ! Realtotrs pay within a week and don't require ( tho I do offer them ) photos! NO BS and if the bank does not pay them for my services I get paid anyway ! That's a sweet deal !


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## BPWY

JMarsden92 said:


> Why do you troll the preservation discussions then? You are not one of us. You couldn't stick it out, or couldn't do the job right. I love hearing about this one doesn't pay... this one backcharges... this one (*^^)^. Maybe has anyone ever looked at maybe they didn't do their job right. It isn't always the company. I don't know how many people sit their and just do the office work and don't actually touch the work.





Just so you know, you sound exactly like a company plant. 
My company's decision to exit P&P had nothing to do with not being able to hang, nothing to do with not doing my job right and I most certainly did not sit in the office and shuffle paperwork and make more money than the guy actually doing the work. 

But hey, nice try at psychoanalysing me, my company and why I'm on PT.
Care to try again?


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## JMarsden92

*Not*

Company plant... NOT! I came into this a little over a year ago with the hopes of making some money. At this point in time I have no reason to get out of the game. I have dedicated my company to AFAS solely, and it proves to help the situation because I am willing to dedicate my company to them, and them alone. No others to make it that I can't do my work speedily. To make it to a Tier 1 within 1 year is hard. Doing it with a small little company like mine is almost impossible. I did it, and it has proved to be a worthy thing. I'm not anyones patsy, or slave. Me, and my contractors all go out to get our work done to the best of its capabilities. Nothing else. All I am saying is that too many people here are whining about pay, money, getting stiffed... Do the work right, have the right insurances, and get the right people... After that it is all downhill.


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## ctquietcorner

JMarsden92 said:


> Why do you troll the preservation discussions then? You are not one of us. You couldn't stick it out, or couldn't do the job right. I love hearing about this one doesn't pay... this one backcharges... this one (*^^)^. Maybe has anyone ever looked at maybe they didn't do their job right. It isn't always the company. I don't know how many people sit their and just do the office work and don't actually touch the work.


 
I must say it is pretty ballsie of you to accuse someone who helped start PT of being a troll. 
As for people not doing their job right, maybe some don't, but my husband was screwed over by 5 brothers and he had all the e-mails to prove they lied. Even with proof they tried their hardest to back peddle and make up more lies. He liened a couple of properties and that really pissed them off. Don't send a work order and then turn around and say well you shouldn't have done that or this when it was clearing put in the work order ot do.


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## GTX63

JMarsden92 said:


> I have dedicated my company to AFAS solely, and it proves to help the situation because I am willing to dedicate my company to them, and them alone. No others to make it that I can't do my work speedily. . After that it is all downhill.


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## BPWY

JMarsden92 said:


> Company plant... NOT! I came into this a little over a year ago with the hopes of making some money. At this point in time I have no reason to get out of the game. I have dedicated my company to AFAS solely, and it proves to help the situation because I am willing to dedicate my company to them, and them alone. No others to make it that I can't do my work speedily. To make it to a Tier 1 within 1 year is hard. Doing it with a small little company like mine is almost impossible. I did it, and it has proved to be a worthy thing. I'm not anyones patsy, or slave. Me, and my contractors all go out to get our work done to the best of its capabilities. Nothing else. All I am saying is that too many people here are whining about pay, money, getting stiffed... Do the work right, have the right insurances, and get the right people... After that it is all downhill.





With just over a year in you probably still have a very lot to learn and experience in the P&P world. 
You are thinking about how contracting SHOULD be, not how it is in the P&P world. 
You may think you are doing the right thing in dedicating yourself to one company.
I can assure you that they do not and never will feel the same about your dedication as what you do.
Another thing, putting all of your income eggs in one basket is a sure road to disaster. 
Many are the nationals and regionals that have folded almost over night for one reason or the other.

I've learned a lot of what I know both in the field and behind the scenes from guys that were in far longer than me.
And I can tell you blind loyalty to a company will not end well in this line of work.

You may be tempted to feel folks are being too hard on you, you gotta realize that some of it you brought on yourself.
Also that you are in the company of many folks that have been there and done that. 
One thing I've learned is that contractors gotta have a very thick skin around other contractors.


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## GTX63

I'm involved in truck, contracting, gun, political, rv forums. Bunch of pussycats here.


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## BRADSConst

JMarsden92 said:


> ... After that it is all downhill.


 All your eggs in one basket?:huh: You definitely got the downhill part right:blink:


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> I'm involved in truck, contracting, gun, political, rv forums. Bunch of pussycats here.


I moderate 2 motocross forums and participate here on occasion.

I have RV questions on the reg! Now I know who to ask!:whistling2:


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## Craigslist Hack

JMarsden92 said:


> Company plant... NOT! I came into this a little over a year ago with the hopes of making some money. At this point in time I have no reason to get out of the game. I have dedicated my company to AFAS solely, and it proves to help the situation because I am willing to dedicate my company to them, and them alone. No others to make it that I can't do my work speedily. To make it to a Tier 1 within 1 year is hard. Doing it with a small little company like mine is almost impossible. I did it, and it has proved to be a worthy thing. I'm not anyones patsy, or slave. Me, and my contractors all go out to get our work done to the best of its capabilities. Nothing else. All I am saying is that too many people here are whining about pay, money, getting stiffed... Do the work right, have the right insurances, and get the right people... After that it is all downhill.



Let me share a cautionary tale with you: 

A couple of years back AMS contacted me to clean up a job another contractor had been fired over. This moron they hired had dropped a tree on a pole barn and when I arrived at the property his Ford Excursion was sunk to the frame in the yard ruts everywhere. I heard all the stuff about AMS you are hearing about AFAS but this job was so easy and the money they were offering was really good. I thought even if I get burned I get plenty of firewood out of the deal. So we ran out the job and they paid us like they said they would. As a matter of fact we ran out hundreds of jobs eventually working for them in 3 states and Savannah, GA area also. Then my coordinator left. Rules soon began to change. Work that once required just a bid and pictures now required a complete breakout or they wanted you to do it and BATF. Soon contractors started getting fed up with the nonsense and we started cutting back territory with them. Then they hired yet another new coordinator and we were back to good. Only this time I was smarter. Everytime they asked us to expand we politely declined because we knew THEY were not stable. They just lost their contract for the GMAC work (that was the ONLY contract we serviced) and I no longer have that extra 15-30k per month I had my troubles with them along the way. Their management and rules were constantly in flux. Nothing like guys on this board have had but by paying attention to what other contractors were saying I realized quickly what AMS was capable of. I feel like we were lucky that we never got severely burned.

Up until about 3 years of doing this you feel like you are just printing money. I don't care if you are the best contractor to ever swing a hammer eventually you will get bit hard on a chargeback or some other no pay. You have to be ready for it and you can never think it won't happen to me. Working for ONLY one company makes your company parasitic to theirs. What if they lose their contract?


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## GTX63

Folks with campers are a pretty tame lot. Biggest debate issues are smokey fires and leaving your outside lights on all night.
Other than the age old big three pizzing contests, the 4x4 crowd plays pretty well together.
Politics, guns and contracting in about that order for intensity. They'll talk about your mother and sociopaths will trace your IP and show up at your door over a post. I'll throw on that list some video software/editing sites I'm on. Younger professionals get pretty bad at times there as well.
That is why when someone here gets their boxers in a twist because we don't get excited over 15 cyd trashouts, I know they haven't been on many forums.


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## GTX63

Craigslist Hack said:


> I have RV questions on the reg! Now I know who to ask!:whistling2:


Pop ups, hybrids, Fivers, Class As, Bs, Cs, etc. That's me. It is the only way to see the USA.


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Folks with campers are a pretty tame lot. Biggest debate issues are smokey fires and leaving your outside lights on all night.
> Other than the age old big three pizzing contests, the 4x4 crowd plays pretty well together.
> Politics, guns and contracting in about that order for intensity. They'll talk about your mother and sociopaths will trace your IP and show up at your door over a post. I'll throw on that list some video software/editing sites I'm on. Younger professionals get pretty bad at times there as well.
> That is why when someone here gets their boxers in a twist because we don't get excited over 15 cyd trashouts, I know they haven't been on many forums.



We had a guy couple years ago spewing racist hate rederick. One guy got tired of his threats and traced his IP. Sent the guy flowers as if he were a Girl Friend on the side. The guy had shared some info that he recently took a trip and the flowers included a card thanking him for the trip! 

Pretty classic stuff we had laughs for days!


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Pop ups, hybrids, Fivers, Class As, Bs, Cs, etc. That's me. It is the only way to see the USA.


I have a 5th wheel with a couple of pop outs that I bought to take to bike rallies. I figure if we use it more this year than we did last year I will probably upgrade to a toy hauler, or an RV. We love all things motorcycle and having your own place to go when at the track or at Harley Rallies has been awesome.


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## cover2

JMarsden92 said:


> Company plant... NOT! I came into this a little over a year ago with the hopes of making some money. At this point in time I have no reason to get out of the game. I have dedicated my company to AFAS solely, and it proves to help the situation because I am willing to dedicate my company to them, and them alone. No others to make it that I can't do my work speedily. To make it to a Tier 1 within 1 year is hard. Doing it with a small little company like mine is almost impossible. I did it, and it has proved to be a worthy thing. I'm not anyones patsy, or slave. Me, and my contractors all go out to get our work done to the best of its capabilities. Nothing else. All I am saying is that too many people here are whining about pay, money, getting stiffed... Do the work right, have the right insurances, and get the right people... After that it is all downhill.


Got it this is cherrysacs isn't it? This is déjà vu the delusional ranting of a newbie that is convinced he is more knowledgable and has more business acumen than all of us. You are right, all your eggs in one basket is definitely downhill. The reason we whined about pay, money, getting stiffed is not something that happened overnight it has happened over the course of years. Your time will come and the light bulb will go on in your head with the thought "now I see what they meant" until then.........hey good luck you will need it! From.......a troll


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## newreo

cover2 said:


> Got it this is cherrysacs isn't it? This is déjà vu the delusional ranting of a newbie that is convinced he is more knowledgable and has more business acumen than all of us. You are right, all your eggs in one basket is definitely downhill. The reason we whined about pay, money, getting stiffed is not something that happened overnight it has happened over the course of years. Your time will come and the light bulb will go on in your head with the thought "now I see what they meant" until then.........hey good luck you will need it! From.......a troll


AFAS is our client as well, pricing is joke. Got one rehab job approved within last year for 600.00. They offered us P&P, I said thanks but no thanks.
P&P went down the hill for sure. SG wants roofs repaired for 2 for SF. Who da hack will agree to move ladder for 4.00 to patch a small hole. This was our exit from that line. AFAS didn't go far from that either... Can you install register for 8.00????? It seems that I was paying SG before we left to work for them. Our zone wasn't covered for a while after we left and it's a big city here, so got to wonder why noone wants to work for these guys when we have thousands of the contractors


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## Craigslist Hack

newreo said:


> AFAS is our client as well, pricing is joke. Got one rehab job approved within last year for 600.00. They offered us P&P, I said thanks but no thanks.
> P&P went down the hill for sure. SG wants roofs repaired for 2 for SF. Who da hack will agree to move ladder for 4.00 to patch a small hole. This was our exit from that line. AFAS didn't go far from that either... Can you install register for 8.00????? It seems that I was paying SG before we left to work for them. Our zone wasn't covered for a while after we left and it's a big city here, so got to wonder why noone wants to work for these guys when we have thousands of the contractors


Back in the day when I was around 30 and had a pretty decent construction company going we had a rule. We wouldn't even look at work that paid under $2,000.00. It's hard to tell whether I was missing out on some easy money of if I was smarter then?


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## Ohnojim

*There is money to be made by the thousands*



Craigslist Hack said:


> Back in the day when I was around 30 and had a pretty decent construction company going we had a rule. We wouldn't even look at work that paid under $2,000.00. It's hard to tell whether I was missing out on some easy money of if I was smarter then?


and there is money to be made $20 at a time. I know a guy who made a very good living on gumballs. $.01 at a time. Some of the best money I have made considering everything, was AMS routine grass cuts. Yes, they only paid $38.10 after discount, but I have a lot that took longer to get the stuff out than to do the work. When you do them every 7 and as early as 5 days on good efficient routes, it adds up and there is not much to do at that interval. I just started doing some AFAS stuff, we'll se how it goes. The $180 Chimney cap seems like a winner along with some other stuff. Some of the pricing is good, some not so much. Pruvan seems a bit dated and clumsy, but it is what it is.


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> Craigslist Hack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Back in the day when I was around 30 and had a pretty decent construction company going we had a rule. We wouldn't even look at work that paid under $2,000.00. It's hard to tell whether I was missing out on some easy money of if I was smarter then?
> 
> 
> 
> and there is money to be made $20 at a time. I know a guy who made a very good living on gumballs. $.01 at a time. Some of the best money I have made considering everything, was AMS routine grass cuts. Yes, they only paid $38.10 after discount, but I have a lot that took longer to get the stuff out than to do the work. When you do them every 7 and as early as 5 days on good efficient routes, it adds up and there is not much to do at that interval. I just started doing some AFAS stuff, we'll se how it goes. The $180 Chimney cap seems like a winner along with some other stuff. Some of the pricing is good, some not so much. Pruvan seems a bit dated and clumsy, but it is what it is.
Click to expand...

Best of luck to you! If that is your business model and what you want to do go for it! 

I like big hits and hate routines. That's just our business model. I hate all the emailing pics and garbage for $38.10. Our area sucks for routes though. Where you live it must be more geographically profitable. 

I just signed up with a mortgage company out of Tennessee and they sent us a couple jobs already. I may have to do the routines to keep the good work but I'm trying to get out of the routines business. We were able to get some good money out of a basement pump out and tarping a roof and a pool. They don't have any pic requirements and 2 guys can make $2,855.00 in about 3hrs. 

I have had grass cut days where I make 1100-1500 per day pretty regularly but I had to work my butt off and go from dark to dark. Wear my equipment out and myself. It's good money but if I can make better money going to 1 property those are the jobs I want. I can't always get them but right now that is where our focus is.


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## Ohnojim

*The bulk of my properties were within 15 miles or so*



Craigslist Hack said:


> Best of luck to you! If that is your business model and what you want to do go for it!
> 
> I like big hits and hate routines. That's just our business model. I hate all the emailing pics and garbage for $38.10. Our area sucks for routes though. Where you live it must be more geographically profitable.
> 
> I just signed up with a mortgage company out of Tennessee and they sent us a couple jobs already. I may have to do the routines to keep the good work but I'm trying to get out of the routines business. We were able to get some good money out of a basement pump out and tarping a roof and a pool. They don't have any pic requirements and 2 guys can make $2,855.00 in about 3hrs.
> 
> I have had grass cut days where I make 1100-1500 per day pretty regularly but I had to work my butt off and go from dark to dark. Wear my equipment out and myself. It's good money but if I can make better money going to 1 property those are the jobs I want. I can't always get them but right now that is where our focus is.


 and the further ones were just extensions from them in each direction. The Vorticity app was pretty easy and I had good systems in place to make it very easy. The interval was key to it, when they allow you to do them every 5 days, there is not much work at the property, in fact it was often difficult to show before and after differences. I do bigger private projects also, at certain times of year, but the $6-8,000 profit from easy grass cuts every month was easy dependable cash flow, and not near as hard on my old body as say, roofing or framing or demo, or concrete, etc. It was not a problem for me to do 20 or more of these on most routes by myself, along with odds and ends, smokes,maids,sumps,etc. I had 50+ properties down to three days a week this season, with very minimal expenses. You could not do it with employees. It did burn me out around September it was on my nerves. 
Large jobs have their own set of problems, I've lost sleep and money with them too. Honestly I'm on the fence about continuing in the PPR/REO world at all, but I'm going to play around a little and see what might work. I'm already loosing my ass on FAS stuff, even if I get paid 100%, and we know that won't happen, not saying anything bad about FAS, I'm sure I made a lot of beginner errors on the PPR stuff, plus whatever their QC spits back, If I break even I'll be happy extremely for the first month. Three grand in a couple hours sounds good, where do I sign?
AMS called me for a year on and off, when I ran the numbers it looked like a loosing proposition, and all the nasty stuff around the internet about them, scared the hell out of me, but it turned out to be a pretty good profitable experience. Never a charge back, never a late pay.
The same can be said for FAS, so I will give it a shot and see what happens for myself, I know it's gambling, I just don't play with what I can't afford to loose. When I see their lowest grass cut at $60 for most clients, I can't help but plug in those numbers (50% more at a minimum from what I was getting) into my old model and like the way it adds up.


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> and the further ones were just extensions from them in each direction. The Vorticity app was pretty easy and I had good systems in place to make it very easy. The interval was key to it, when they allow you to do them every 5 days, there is not much work at the property, in fact it was often difficult to show before and after differences. I do bigger private projects also, at certain times of year, but the $6-8,000 profit from easy grass cuts every month was easy dependable cash flow, and not near as hard on my old body as say, roofing or framing or demo, or concrete, etc. It was not a problem for me to do 20 or more of these on most routes by myself, along with odds and ends, smokes,maids,sumps,etc. I had 50+ properties down to three days a week this season, with very minimal expenses. You could not do it with employees. It did burn me out around September it was on my nerves.
> Large jobs have their own set of problems, I've lost sleep and money with them too. Honestly I'm on the fence about continuing in the PPR/REO world at all, but I'm going to play around a little and see what might work. I'm already loosing my ass on FAS stuff, even if I get paid 100%, and we know that won't happen, not saying anything bad about FAS, I'm sure I made a lot of beginner errors on the PPR stuff, plus whatever their QC spits back, If I break even I'll be happy extremely for the first month. Three grand in a couple hours sounds good, where do I sign?
> AMS called me for a year on and off, when I ran the numbers it looked like a loosing proposition, and all the nasty stuff around the internet about them, scared the hell out of me, but it turned out to be a pretty good profitable experience. Never a charge back, never a late pay.
> The same can be said for FAS, so I will give it a shot and see what happens for myself, I know it's gambling, I just don't play with what I can't afford to loose. When I see their lowest grass cut at $60 for most clients, I can't help but plug in those numbers (50% more at a minimum from what I was getting) into my old model and like the way it adds up.


It's not unusual for us to drive 45minutes between properties. 20 cuts in a day is rare here, It has been done but rarely.


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## BPWY

Craigslist Hack said:


> It's not unusual for us to drive 45minutes between properties. 20 cuts in a day is rare here, It has been done but rarely.





For sure, lot of rural areas that is absolute impossibility to make 20 a day.


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## Ohnojim

*My routes averaged about 7 miles per property*

when taken as a whole, and smaller properties for the most part. I might drive 50 miles to a town with 12 or so properties, with some on the way there some on the way home. It really is all about your coverage area, your inventory, and your overhead. My formula was 10 mile or less per property on average and this truck will go there. If you don't have the volume and can't make it up on pricing, you need to find a contractor for that area. Then you pick up a couple cash customers along the way to pay the expenses, it was a beautiful thing.


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## lakeshore67

*dude stay away from afas*



Mason0127 said:


> Sooo what your saying is don't send them back all the paperwork for sign on back to them? Are they really that bad to work for as a vendor?do they pay?


they were a pain in my ass.... and they don't pay you as promised, we worked for them for about 6 mons, and left in july this year, they went to the aspen grove crap... I was not paying to have my own back ground to be cked every month and for 2 mil in liability, not to mention they are pretty ignorant, I spent more time replying to there constant emails cause they cant read notes or look at pics, nor do they awnser there phone!!!! there pay is not worth the head aches!!!!:lol:


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## JMarsden92

*I'm Not One To Pick... But...*

If anyone is looking into doing this work then you need to look at the reality of this business. Go into it, and make your own decisions. You can't take anyones word for it. Many vendors have gotten caught up in the politics of their area. If you piss in the wrong cup of coffee, then you are going to have issues with ANYONE. I am with AFAS over a year now, and I am not complaining. When you have a company that expands too much, and you have to pay processors, and other people to do what is rightfully your job, then you might not be making as much as you could. Other vendors just don't get it... The prices that are out there are NOT similar in any manner. AFAS seems to have the best prices OVERALL. There may be one or two line items that don't seem right, but what the hell. When it comes to getting your work through each and every single time then you need to make sure you are getting all your photos. If you are QC declined, then you have 24 hours to respond back, and then they will move the workorder forward from that point. Otherwise you won't get paid. AFAS is one of the industry leaders right now. If you aren't on the train with them, then I can foresee in the future you won't be working. MCS, Safeguard, Five Brothers, and others are all failing.


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## K&L preservation

JMarsden92 said:


> If anyone is looking into doing this work then you need to look at the reality of this business. Go into it, and make your own decisions. You can't take anyones word for it. Many vendors have gotten caught up in the politics of their area. If you piss in the wrong cup of coffee, then you are going to have issues with ANYONE. I am with AFAS over a year now, and I am not complaining. When you have a company that expands too much, and you have to pay processors, and other people to do what is rightfully your job, then you might not be making as much as you could. Other vendors just don't get it... The prices that are out there are NOT similar in any manner. AFAS seems to have the best prices OVERALL. There may be one or two line items that don't seem right, but what the hell. When it comes to getting your work through each and every single time then you need to make sure you are getting all your photos. If you are QC declined, then you have 24 hours to respond back, and then they will move the workorder forward from that point. Otherwise you won't get paid. AFAS is one of the industry leaders right now. If you aren't on the train with them, then I can foresee in the future you won't be working. MCS, Safeguard, Five Brothers, and others are all failing.


 
if youre doing a good job with afas and are jumping through all their pointless hoops letting them make more money off you then your making off them, it means your either being taking advantage of and they see it and you don't or your doing a good job.. why don't you go out and get paid what your worth, either working with brokers, bank direct, hedge funds, or insurance claims. wouldn't have half the hoops to jump through or the aspen grove krap to deal with. not poking fun by any means, just hate seeing someone feeding the decline of the industry and making peanut shells instead of hitting them over the wall and scoring home runs.. what do they pay for a wint, $125 max? when you can double even triple that going direct.. don't know about you but I would like to retire by the time im 65 not get out of the truck at 95 and have to grab my walker camera and take 35 mins to walk to the mailbox to snap a pic of the address for a $45 grass cut then 35 mins back to the trailer only to die because the drop gate fell on me while I was trying to get the mower off.. everyone needs to go after what their worth..


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## Craigslist Hack

JMarsden92 said:


> If anyone is looking into doing this work then you need to look at the reality of this business. Go into it, and make your own decisions. You can't take anyones word for it. Many vendors have gotten caught up in the politics of their area. If you piss in the wrong cup of coffee, then you are going to have issues with ANYONE. I am with AFAS over a year now, and I am not complaining. When you have a company that expands too much, and you have to pay processors, and other people to do what is rightfully your job, then you might not be making as much as you could. Other vendors just don't get it... The prices that are out there are NOT similar in any manner. AFAS seems to have the best prices OVERALL. There may be one or two line items that don't seem right, but what the hell. When it comes to getting your work through each and every single time then you need to make sure you are getting all your photos. If you are QC declined, then you have 24 hours to respond back, and then they will move the workorder forward from that point. Otherwise you won't get paid. AFAS is one of the industry leaders right now. If you aren't on the train with them, then I can foresee in the future you won't be working. MCS, Safeguard, Five Brothers, and others are all failing.


AFAS is one of the lowest paying, worst QC companies out there. No politics involved.


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## newreo

JMarsden92 said:


> If anyone is looking into doing this work then you need to look at the reality of this business. Go into it, and make your own decisions. You can't take anyones word for it. Many vendors have gotten caught up in the politics of their area. If you piss in the wrong cup of coffee, then you are going to have issues with ANYONE. I am with AFAS over a year now, and I am not complaining. When you have a company that expands too much, and you have to pay processors, and other people to do what is rightfully your job, then you might not be making as much as you could. Other vendors just don't get it... The prices that are out there are NOT similar in any manner. AFAS seems to have the best prices OVERALL. There may be one or two line items that don't seem right, but what the hell. When it comes to getting your work through each and every single time then you need to make sure you are getting all your photos. If you are QC declined, then you have 24 hours to respond back, and then they will move the workorder forward from that point. Otherwise you won't get paid. AFAS is one of the industry leaders right now. If you aren't on the train with them, then I can foresee in the future you won't be working. MCS, Safeguard, Five Brothers, and others are all failing.


We all had been young and excited. But we had grown up and learned it hard way. :wheelchair: We even loved industry few years back


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## PropPresPro

JMarsden92 said:


> . . .AFAS seems to have the best prices OVERALL


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


> . . .AFAS is one of the industry leaders right now. . .If you aren't on the train with them, then I can foresee in the future you won't be working. . .


:lol::lol::lol:

Thanks, but I safely stepped off that particular train a few years ago when I noticed engineer was nodding off at the wheel!


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## BPWY

PropPresPro said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Thanks, but I safely stepped off that particular train a few years ago when I noticed engineer was nodding off at the wheel!




Its really not possible to reason with someone that out of touch. Someone with that extraordinary small window into the industry


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## PropPresPro

BPWY said:


> Its really not possible to reason with someone that out of touch. Someone with that extraordinary small window into the industry


I have a 14YO son currently in Drivers Education learning to drive. So far he has logged about 4.5 hours of behind the wheel time with either his instructors, mother or me riding shotgun. In that 4.5 hours he has been very successful in obeying traffic laws and not getting into any accidents, so much so that he gets a little cocky sometimes and I've had to remind him that he might want to listen to us without arguing as we all have a couple of more miles of experience than he does. He says 'you're right dad, can you explain that to me again'. 

Again, he is 14.


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## Ohnojim

*So far, I have found AFAS*

to be pretty good, I have only done about 25 orders for them. I have found them to be professional, well resourced, and helpful. Pricing is decent overall and all my invoices have been approved. I have only been with them for a short while and my checks are just starting to come in net 45, but they are on time and for the correct amount. I have also gotten some decent bids, they are starting to come in also. I know right now, I'm the new kid, and am picking up a lot of the stuff no one else wants but I'm making the best of it and looking for every dollar the last guy left behind. They have run me to the far reaches of my coverage area with little in the center, but coverage area is a double edged sword. I would like to see some better volume from them, especially with routines, but all in good time I suppose. The only issue I really have with them is PRUVAN, that is one clunky assed, redundant, outdated hunk of crap.


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> to be pretty good, I have only done about 25 orders for them. I have found them to be professional, well resourced, and helpful. Pricing is decent overall and all my invoices have been approved. I have only been with them for a short while and my checks are just starting to come in net 45, but they are on time and for the correct amount. I have also gotten some decent bids, they are starting to come in also. I know right now, I'm the new kid, and am picking up a lot of the stuff no one else wants but I'm making the best of it and looking for every dollar the last guy left behind. They have run me to the far reaches of my coverage area with little in the center, but coverage area is a double edged sword. I would like to see some better volume from them, especially with routines, but all in good time I suppose. The only issue I really have with them is PRUVAN, that is one clunky assed, redundant, outdated hunk of crap.


You lost me at routines. When I hear that I'm done.:icon_rolleyes:


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## Ohnojim

*Yes, we get it CH.*



Craigslist Hack said:


> You lost me at routines. When I hear that I'm done.:icon_rolleyes:


You like the quick shot. I like to run the rabbit around a few times. I like the refreshes. I get what I want the first time (within reason), do it right, and it's pretty much free money after that. Between a few routines, a roof repair, 2 wints, and a secure today this old boy had a $1000+ day today, and was home by 2:30. I like steady cash flow and some regular home runs. I put $35 in the tank, still have most of it, and only spent 7 bucks for some cap nails. I'm done for the week, I have my 9 1/2 hours in. :yes:

I told you I was just screwin' around this winter.


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> You like the quick shot. I like to run the rabbit around a few times. I like the refreshes. I get what I want the first time (within reason), do it right, and it's pretty much free money after that. Between a few routines, a roof repair, 2 wints, and a secure today this old boy had a $1000+ day today, and was home by 2:30. I like steady cash flow and some regular home runs. I put $35 in the tank, still have most of it, and only spent 7 bucks for some cap nails. I'm done for the week, I have my 9 1/2 hours in. :yes:
> 
> I told you I was just screwin' around this winter.


You had a great day! Nothing wrong with that. I was still out working at 2:30! And I didn't make much today. Maybe I should do some routines. Lol!

Glad to hear you like what you are doing that's really what it's all about.


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## Ohnojim

*I have found a few niches for myself.*

That's also what it's about. So far I have to go against the general consensus and give AFAS pretty good marks as far as nationals go. I can however see how it might be a tough company for some to work for, the reporting is a pain, and they will test you right away. But, I don't get too excited.


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## Craigslist Hack

Ohnojim said:


> That's also what it's about. So far I have to go against the general consensus and give AFAS pretty good marks as far as nationals go. I can however see how it might be a tough company for some to work for, the reporting is a pain, and they will test you right away. But, I don't get too excited.


A realtor we recently started getting work through called today and something smelled funny in their office. I went in and looked for it and when I couldn't find it I handed out business cards, ate some cookies, and chatted with some cute agents. It wasn't to profitable but you can't win them all. I figure I'm in good if they call when something "smells" funny.


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