# Background checks



## thanohano44

What's the real reason for them? What would prompt these companies to require them from us?


----------



## Craigslist Hack

thanohano44 said:


> What's the real reason for them? What would prompt these companies to require them from us?


Banks do not want the Media claiming they sent felons into mortgagers homes. That's all it is. It's that simple.


----------



## Cleanupman

IMHO...
This is to save face from all the fall out....
They want the people financing the industry to pass a BC but yet the people in the middle are ok????
Look at how many times that the mathis guy and his buddy lambert have been allowed in the last three years to acquire a contract from a national to sub their work....
It is nothing more than to allow the NAMC's to say "well we did a BC on them, they must have hid something"

again....this is not generating from the clients...the lenders we work directly with have not once even hinted at this....not once....
I might add...we...our company...entered into working relationships based on our company's reputation for being able to deliver a quality product. Not because of the backgrounds of our employees.
Here's the rub on this issue....
If one of these companies tell you that you can not have a job because of an ex-felon status with yourself or one of your employees...discrimination issues apply and they can be sued.....


----------



## GTX63

Yes ^^^


----------



## Craigslist Hack

Wells Fargo has pushed for background checks and I am sure Bank of America has as well.


----------



## GTX63

Neither has asked us for our rap sheets yet and we have completed some deep pocket orders for them.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> Neither has asked us for our rap sheets yet and we have completed some deep pocket orders for them.


The Wells Fargo initiative was outlined at NAMFS and it came directly from Wells. I am not sure who you are working through or for but I assure you both Wells and BOA have been pushing for this.


----------



## Cleanupman

We do WF here also and have nothing directly from them....
Here the Brokers are in charge of whom does the work.....


----------



## Craigslist Hack

Cleanupman said:


> We do WF here also and have nothing directly from them....
> Here the Brokers are in charge of whom does the work.....


I hear what you are saying as far as your personal experience. What I am saying is they not only stood up at NAMFS and asked for this they are putting pressure on the nationals they use to institute the policy.

Again I ask for one good reason background checks are a bad thing? 

I feel this policy will help eliminate some of the trashy people we have in this industry. I also feel that if these lenders are going to add more qualifications to us we should be compensated for it. If they are going to require a background check they should pay for it.


----------



## Out of the darknes

Craigslist Hack said:


> I hear what you are saying as far as your personal experience. What I am saying is they not only stood up at NAMFS and asked for this they are putting pressure on the nationals they use to institute the policy.
> 
> Again I ask for one good reason background checks are a bad thing?
> 
> I feel this policy will help eliminate some of the trashy people we have in this industry. I also feel that if these lenders are going to add more qualifications to us we should be compensated for it. If they are going to require a background check they should pay for it.


I personally have no problems with a background check (BGC). The ones who fear the background check (on the company or it's employees) have reasons for the concerns. It may be they feel it blurs the IC -vs- Employee lines, but as I have seen stated here before many times a non PPI contract comes with the same requirements. I personally subscribe to the we all should send a current BGC with all Contractor Applications. Show them we have nothing to hide. Pay the contractor's whom pass more for services!

As for mandating that we use a the carrier they choose and pay them for the BGC in advance, before any work comes well I strongly disagree. If my company and it's employees have passed the Federal Governments BGC then why should it have to pay ABC company for repeating the check annually? The multiple BGC and associated hits on credit scores are an issue that needs addressed. The BGC itself in my opinion does not. This is my personal view and in no way is meant to represent the NPPG policy nor future plans for BGC policies.


----------



## Cleanupman

Craigslist Hack said:


> I hear what you are saying as far as your personal experience. What I am saying is they not only stood up at NAMFS and asked for this they are putting pressure on the nationals they use to institute the policy.
> 
> Again I ask for one good reason background checks are a bad thing?
> 
> I feel this policy will help eliminate some of the trashy people we have in this industry. I also feel that if these lenders are going to add more qualifications to us we should be compensated for it. If they are going to require a background check they should pay for it.


Not here....WF deals directly with the Brokers...I assist one of the GC's that works here with some of the PP work...
The Brokers hire the Contractor. 
The will not hire "handyman" or a "Property Preservation" company you have to actively hold a General Contractors License. 
That is the direction I see that industry going.....


----------



## Craigslist Hack

Cleanupman said:


> Not here....WF deals directly with the Brokers...I assist one of the GC's that works here with some of the PP work...
> The Brokers hire the Contractor.
> The will not hire "handyman" or a "Property Preservation" company you have to actively hold a General Contractors License.
> That is the direction I see that industry going.....


I hope the industry does go this direction. I work Wells Fargo here very day through LPS, NFR, and we were doing it through AIM. I work for brokers as well but haven't been getting any Wells work through brokers.

I also do not see how Pre Foreclosure will ever work through a broker? We prefer pre foreclosure over REO, and post conveyance.


----------



## bigdaddy

Craigslist Hack said:


> I hope the industry does go this direction. I work Wells Fargo here very day through LPS, NFR, and we were doing it through AIM. I work for brokers as well but haven't been getting any Wells work through brokers.
> 
> I also do not see how Pre Foreclosure will ever work through a broker? We prefer pre foreclosure over REO, and post conveyance.


Why do you prefer pre foreclosure work? I have never done it so I don't know, but I would think you would be very limited in what work you can do? I do Wells Fargo and I see the LPS stickers on the properties and the only things done are rekey and winterization (wints are NEVER done correctly by the way!)Plus the fact that you never really know what you are walking into, and I have to think the liability is much higher. Just curious to know.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

bigdaddy said:


> Why do you prefer pre foreclosure work? I have never done it so I don't know, but I would think you would be very limited in what work you can do? I do Wells Fargo and I see the LPS stickers on the properties and the only things done are rekey and winterization (wints are NEVER done correctly by the way!)Plus the fact that you never really know what you are walking into, and I have to think the liability is much higher. Just curious to know.


For us they are usually very quick in and outs, High profit margins, and little to no QC. We are very limited in what we can do like you said but it's great work for semi skilled contractors and small crews. It's not unusual for a guy to take 10 to 15 work orders and make $1000.00 a day. I get that you and your guys are probably doing much larger orders but I run several crews and if i can keep them moving on small high profit orders we can make good money with little to no overhead. If all we have to buy is fuel, RV Antifreeze, Tarps, Locks, and mower blades it beats having to invest thousands and wait to get repaid.

We do a little of everything and have for a while. I bought 2 houses last week cheap that will give the guys something to do this winter. I spend less time on the phone and returning emails on preforeclosure work than any other.


----------



## Field Audit Services LLC

To ask such questions makes me wonder why they would be asked...seems as self explainatory as it can be. :whistling2:

This is very simple and in no way "blurs" the IC/Employee line; If you want a contract with ABC, and ABC requires you to have a BGC, then you have one. If one is afraid (as ALOT are), then they use the even more lame excuse of "it ruins my credit score", when in reality, their credit score probably really can't get any worse. :thumbsup:

Better yet, they do nothing, do not get a contract, and more work goes to those who qualify, meaning those that met the requirements of ABC.

As far as "discrimination" :whistling2: goes...I just love how people claim to be champions for the movement, but then use an employee mindset to try and make their points. If one does not get a contract because they have a felony, no matter the reason for the felony, good f'n luck trying to prove it is because you are a felon (or 'ex' felon). And even if you do prove that to be the case, ABC may have a policy against employing...oh, excuse me...granting a contract, to felons. There MUST be consequences for ones actions. And anyone thinking a felon deserves the same equal rights to be 'hired' or to 'work with' ABC, has another thing coming. 

You see the state of the world as it is today, and you seriously ask a question like the opening post did? :sleep1:


----------



## Cleanupman

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> To ask such questions makes me wonder why they would be asked...seems as self explainatory as it can be. :whistling2:
> 
> This is very simple and in no way "blurs" the IC/Employee line; If you want a contract with ABC, and ABC requires you to have a BGC, then you have one. If one is afraid (as ALOT are), then they use the even more lame excuse of "it ruins my credit score", when in reality, their credit score probably really can't get any worse. :thumbsup:
> 
> Better yet, they do nothing, do not get a contract, and more work goes to those who qualify, meaning those that met the requirements of ABC.
> 
> As far as "discrimination" :whistling2: goes...I just love how people claim to be champions for the movement, but then use an employee mindset to try and make their points. If one does not get a contract because they have a felony, no matter the reason for the felony, good f'n luck trying to prove it is because you are a felon (or 'ex' felon). And even if you do prove that to be the case, ABC may have a policy against employing...oh, excuse me...granting a contract, to felons. There MUST be consequences for ones actions. And anyone thinking a felon deserves the same equal rights to be 'hired' or to 'work with' ABC, has another thing coming.
> 
> You see the state of the world as it is today, and you seriously ask a question like the opening post did? :sleep1:


Going to prison for a crime is a consequence for their action....
That said....you're going to tell us the 40% of our society that has something in their background can't work?????
get a grip...a recent FBI release stated that 1 in 25 people are arrested in this country....everyday....that is 4% of the population. there is 20% of the population in some sort of lock up or supervision whether it be parole or probation, a rehab center, house arrest, etc. so they can never work??? it's a condition of their parole or probation to have a job.
And sorry but there are current companies that are being sued for discriminating against ex-felons and not hiring them or firing them because of felony in their past....so the good fing luck thing... you bumped your head as BMW is one of the companies being sued right now...it's the law...this is why I question the procedure...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanad...und-checks-on-job-candidates-be-very-careful/

Here is a paragraph from a piece on Dollar General and BMW...
............To wit, reaction by many such folks to the announcement this past week that the EEOC is suing BMW and Dollar General (the discount store) for racial discrimination, because of their alleged misuse of criminal background checks to screen potential employees. Because these checks have a disparate impact on African Americans, due to higher rates of criminal conviction than the rates for whites, the government is suing, not to completely prevent the use of background checks, but to alter the indiscriminate manner in which these two companies, and many others, have used them..................

If they can be sued what makes you think that SGP and the rest can not be sued????

Don't get me wrong, there are certain crimes that will eliminate employment such as a child molester getting a job at a day care or the auto theif selling cars etc...
But for company ABC to BC our employees while placing a known felon in play that has been caught steeling and embezzling with out them having to answer to a BC because they will be "Subbing" the work to you????
POPPYCOCK....

And sorry but the "I have nothing to hide" statement and thought process...employee mindset...
You hire a company based on their performance record and how said company conducts business....how they complete services, provide products, their quality of service and the products they produce.
Do you require a background check on the plumber you call to your house? or how about the guy coming to fix the broken window? Perhaps you're anal enough to require the guy at the car wash that is going to detail your car provide a BC, or how about the bag boy at the grocery store that will be walking your wife and daughter to the car? Maybe you wish to check the catering company for your daughters wedding???? or the band for your child's 16th birthday party.

Plain and simple...BC's are being pushed on the BOTG...the people financing the industry because of the idiotic hiring practices the Nationals have done to drive pricing down, it is to save face over their mistakes not ours.
Will it get rid if the riff-raff???? Doesn't look like it as every time you turn around there is another company not paying the BOTG.....seems like a lot of NAMFS members fall into this category...

Here is the rub....you can only go back 7 years...if this was the case in the PPI then so be it...but it's not. like many of the contracts there is no definition as to when/what/where etc. in addition, why is this being farmed out? why is there a $40 charge for something that is $5, why is there no procedure for securing the personal information of your employees? furthermore....why do the forms all say "employee" on them????? Every BC form I have reviewed from every NAMC or ROM has the word "employee" on them.....
So yes it is an "Employee" thing and Employee Mindset....that you have nothing to hide....and it discriminatory....


----------



## Field Audit Services LLC

:yawn:

Please don't tippy-toe and BS the fine members of this group with your inability to accept what was written, instead of trying to turn it around. I specifically said FELON...Murderers, Child Molestors etc...Doing time in prision is only PART of the consequences. Thinking otherwise is purely delusional on your part. 

1 in 5 may be arrested, but 1 in 5 IS NOT arrested for a felony. When people get lucky and are released and fail to notify the proper authorities that they are/have moved, THAT is another crime, indicative of the mindset of the felon to NOT change their ways, but rather try to 'mask' themselves and attempting to have others believe they are something they are not. 

And the ones offering the contract can do what they want. If it is a felon that runs the company, that said felon can hire all the felons they want to. But don't expect business' to be knocking on their door offering work. Get over it. A child molester (your example) has no rights where contact with the public is possible, being the face of their client, if in fact they actually get a contract. Using your example, this business SPECIFICALLY should ban ANY child molester felon as it is not known if interaction will happen or not.

Anybody can be sued for anything. Let me know how these lawsuits you are using as an example (which by the way is for RACIAL DISCRIMINATION and NOT because they don't want felons. Please read what you post before attempting to make another lame point that has nothing to do with the reason for BGC in THIS industry :sleep1: ) works out for you and your cause.

You are giving lame excuses to justify a felons actions and your position on the matter. :yes:

EDIT-By the way...you are being VERY vocal AGAINST these BGC...What are YOU wanting to hide? And as a side note, last I heard, a felony is forever. There is no statute of limitations on a BGC. The search company can go back as far as they want to. What world do you live in? Not the real one, that is obvious.

EDIT #2-And my company gets contracts because of my ethics and abilities as well as past performance. My company is a package deal; as an example: just because you do good work doesn't mean squat if YOU are a thief/child molestor/whatever felon. Why? Because your past performance has shown that you are of a criminal mindset, regardless of the company performance. Please advise of all felons in charge of the nationals/regionals and your PROOF they did not have a BGC. Untill you can backup what you claim, you are just another wanna-be on the internet spouting like he has 1st hand knowledge of something.


----------



## thanohano44

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> :yawn:
> 
> Please don't tippy-toe and BS the fine members of this group with your inability to accept what was written, instead of trying to turn it around. I specifically said FELON...Murderers, Child Molestors etc...Doing time in prision is only PART of the consequences. Thinking otherwise is purely delusional on your part.
> 
> 1 in 5 may be arrested, but 1 in 5 IS NOT arrested for a felony. When people get lucky and are released and fail to notify the proper authorities that they are/have moved, THAT is another crime, indicative of the mindset of the felon to NOT change their ways, but rather try to 'mask' themselves and attempting to have others believe they are something they are not.
> 
> And the ones offering the contract can do what they want. If it is a felon that runs the company, that said felon can hire all the felons they want to. But don't expect business' to be knocking on their door offering work. Get over it. A child molester (your example) has no rights where contact with the public is possible, being the face of their client, if in fact they actually get a contract. Using your example, this business SPECIFICALLY should ban ANY child molester felon as it is not known if interaction will happen or not.
> 
> Anybody can be sued for anything. Let me know how these lawsuits you are using as an example (which by the way is for RACIAL DISCRIMINATION and NOT because they don't want felons. Please read what you post before attempting to make another lame point that has nothing to do with the reason for BGC in THIS industry :sleep1: ) works out for you and your cause.
> 
> You are giving lame excuses to justify a felons actions and your position on the matter. :yes:
> 
> EDIT-By the way...you are being VERY vocal AGAINST these BGC...What are YOU wanting to hide? And as a side note, last I heard, a felony is forever. There is no statute of limitations on a BGC. The search company can go back as far as they want to. What world do you live in? Not the real one, that is obvious.
> 
> EDIT #2-And my company gets contracts because of my ethics and abilities as well as past performance. My company is a package deal; as an example: just because you do good work doesn't mean squat if YOU are a thief/child molestor/whatever felon. Why? Because your past performance has shown that you are of a criminal mindset, regardless of the company performance. Please advise of all felons in charge of the nationals/regionals and your PROOF they did not have a BGC. Untill you can backup what you claim, you are just another wanna-be on the internet spouting like he has 1st hand knowledge of something.


Interesting. I'm sure MFS firms don't want felons having access to vacant homes? Why might you ask? They can pop all of the copper, appliances and even take up residence. Like we all have seen over and over again. Heck, some have been known to commit crimes in these homes. You're giving them the opportunity to continue fostering the criminal mindset and activities. Nobody owes them a thing. It sucks for them but they should have thought of that before they did their evil deed.


----------



## GTX63

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> :yawn:
> 
> Please don't tippy-toe and BS the fine members of this group with your inability to accept what was written, instead of trying to turn it around. I specifically said FELON...Murderers, Child Molestors etc...Doing time in prision is only PART of the consequences. Thinking otherwise is purely delusional on your part.


FELON-like this guy?

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...on-fhp-trooper-wood-storks#.UmRcD_EEcUg.email


----------



## Field Audit Services LLC

A never ending source of amazement (and entertainment) with me, is that people either don't read what was written, don't understand what was written, or both. And while that, in and of itself is of not worthy of speacial-ness, the simple fact that these same people are in business for themselves. Scary the thought that no one actually reads, much less understands their contract. They just sign on the dotted line and pitch a bitch after the fact because they didn't read and/or didn't comprehend the document they were presented with. :sad:

Again, I _specifically_ said "FELON...Murderers, Child Molestors etc...". I wonder how anyone can construe this to include a simple BS charge of releasing mylar balloons, that any para-legal can have quickly dismissed, and also, a HUGE DIFFERENCE in simply being charged with a felony, and being found guilty of a felony. So again, another lame analogy to try and further the 'I have something to hide and am protesting BGC', *OR* the 'I am on the bandwagon because I don't know what I'm doing so if I protest I will be one of 'the cool ones' then'.

Please, for you and your livlihoods sake, seek out _COMPETENT_ legal advice before you listen to the likes of those that want followers to make them feel important. Or they themselves are hiding something and trying to rally up a crowd of followers to help 'cloak' them...and their past. :icon_wink:


----------



## GTX63

If you'll stop listening to the sound of your voice long enough you may learn something here. Regardless of your novella on the world according to FAS, there is no differentiation in felonies when it comes to the BC. The example was made to point out that not everyone painted with a felony has committed irreversible crimes against society, whether at 17 or 71. Rather than making troll like posts against cleanupman, try to flex a cranial nerve and make a point without the personals.


----------



## Field Audit Services LLC

Again with the not understanding what was written, and resorting to name calling to make themselves feel loud and proud. :thumbsup:

Do you have anything useful to add to the conversation or are you going to keep attempting to attack me? Just curious is all.


----------



## PropPresPro

Kids, kids, kids, it's Sunday evening, R E L A X, let it go, it doesn't matter. 

:gunsmilie::gunsmilie::gunsmilie:


----------



## Cleanupman

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Again with the not understanding what was written, and resorting to name calling to make themselves feel loud and proud. :thumbsup:
> 
> Do you have anything useful to add to the conversation or are you going to keep attempting to attack me? Just curious is all.


You seem to be the new kid on the block...
Love the fact you wish to sling accusations around about hiding etc with your blank profile....
Perhaps you should step out from behind the curtain...
Perhaps before you attempt to quote the law you should know it and understand it.
A company con only go back seven years....yes 7 years not forever.....
7 years as that is what it takes to declare you dead if you disappear.....
Also you have no clue at the innuendos and under lying accusations your making....it is one thing to see something on paper but another thing to actually have the facts of case law....


----------



## Cleanupman

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> :yawn:
> 
> Please don't tippy-toe and BS the fine members of this group with your inability to accept what was written, instead of trying to turn it around. I specifically said FELON...Murderers, Child Molestors etc...Doing time in prision is only PART of the consequences. Thinking otherwise is purely delusional on your part.
> 
> 1 in 5 may be arrested, but 1 in 5 IS NOT arrested for a felony. When people get lucky and are released and fail to notify the proper authorities that they are/have moved, THAT is another crime, indicative of the mindset of the felon to NOT change their ways, but rather try to 'mask' themselves and attempting to have others believe they are something they are not.
> 
> And the ones offering the contract can do what they want. If it is a felon that runs the company, that said felon can hire all the felons they want to. But don't expect business' to be knocking on their door offering work. Get over it. A child molester (your example) has no rights where contact with the public is possible, being the face of their client, if in fact they actually get a contract. Using your example, this business SPECIFICALLY should ban ANY child molester felon as it is not known if interaction will happen or not.
> 
> Anybody can be sued for anything. Let me know how these lawsuits you are using as an example (which by the way is for RACIAL DISCRIMINATION and NOT because they don't want felons. Please read what you post before attempting to make another lame point that has nothing to do with the reason for BGC in THIS industry :sleep1: ) works out for you and your cause.
> 
> You are giving lame excuses to justify a felons actions and your position on the matter. :yes:
> 
> EDIT-By the way...you are being VERY vocal AGAINST these BGC...What are YOU wanting to hide? And as a side note, last I heard, a felony is forever. There is no statute of limitations on a BGC. The search company can go back as far as they want to. What world do you live in? Not the real one, that is obvious.
> 
> EDIT #2-And my company gets contracts because of my ethics and abilities as well as past performance. My company is a package deal; as an example: just because you do good work doesn't mean squat if YOU are a thief/child molestor/whatever felon. Why? Because your past performance has shown that you are of a criminal mindset, regardless of the company performance. Please advise of all felons in charge of the nationals/regionals and your PROOF they did not have a BGC. Untill you can backup what you claim, you are just another wanna-be on the internet spouting like he has 1st hand knowledge of something.


What you seem to be overlooking is the fact that murderers and heinous child molesters never get out of prison...So while you're attempting to come off as an authority on criminals you happen to be conversing with someone who during their Sociology studies in college wrote his thesis entitled. 
"How to Reduce Recidivism".
The issue of companies being sued for discriminating the racial issue was the collateral affect of the BC...the people just happened to be black...them being black had nothing to do with being terminated for being an ex-felon...
And I dear person whom has a blank profile am definitely not a wanna-be....I do have firsthand knowledge...
you're the one hiding behind a blank profile...not I...in addition the fine members of this group do not hide behind blank profiles only members do....
It is obvious by your statements you know very little about contracts...
But that is why I as a consultant make a respectable living....
Thank you very Large...
Have a good day...
Now if I'm incorrect in guessing that you were directing you statements at me then I do apologize for thinking you were addressing my commentary...however, I do not retract anything....


----------



## Cleanupman

Craigslist Hack said:


> I hope the industry does go this direction. I work Wells Fargo here very day through LPS, NFR, and we were doing it through AIM. I work for brokers as well but haven't been getting any Wells work through brokers.
> 
> I also do not see how Pre Foreclosure will ever work through a broker? We prefer pre foreclosure over REO, and post conveyance.


I did not catch this earlier CLH....no pre here just post....Pre is handled by AIM.
But for the post the Brokers hire a General Contractor.
We are in the process right now of acquiring the proper licensing as a couple of the brokers want us to perform the services and rehab for them.
The $$$$ is way better and quicker to be paid than other work.
We also work directly with a local bank and another small mortgage company for manufactured homes. 
You should look into the post work if you're able as everything is approved prior to starting of services and we hear nothing negative here from the other Contractors performing services for the realtors....we cover the rural areas so we don't conflict with the metropolitan area of Reno/Sparks...currently we just assist one of the GC's and they have assisted in getting us on board in our area....now if we can get the Contractors Board to quit dragging their heals!!!!!


----------



## Field Audit Services LLC

> I do have firsthand knowledge


 Oh please, don't stop there! Continue on! How do you have firsthand knowledge of a felons rights? Or are you simply misusing the term 'first hand knowledge'?


----------



## Cleanupman

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Oh please, don't stop there! Continue on! How do you have firsthand knowledge of a felons rights? Or are you simply misusing the term 'first hand knowledge'?


I don't debate with sock puppet accounts.
You want to gain some respectability then fill out your profile and discontinue hiding behind the curtain mr. sock puppet account...


----------



## BRADSConst

PropPresPro told you guys to knock it off. Now I'm telling you to knock it off. 

If you can't follow simple instructions, you will be invited to take a vacation for a little while.


----------



## JDRM

Now go stand in the corner and think about what you just did............


----------



## thanohano44

JDRM said:


> Now go stand in the corner and think about what you just did............


Got the new email of WF requirements including background checks and badges and uniforms. Opine


----------



## Cleanupman

thanohano44 said:


> Got the new email of WF requirements including background checks and badges and uniforms. Opine


employee


----------



## Field Audit Services LLC

Holy crap! WHY ALL the mis-information? WTF? Can no one actually understand what they read? thanohano44, this is directed at YOU. 



> _¸ Wear appropriate company uniform or clothing. If none provided, wear a shirt, pants, shoes,
> and any required protective clothing or safety equipment if performing services at a property.
> Clothing will not have offensive designs, photograph or language.
> _


 Now, how can ANYONE interpret this as being an "employee"? 

And then we have this:


> _ALL of your *employees* completing work in the field (i.e. inspectors and contractors) must have
> a background check completed as outlined above._


 Apparently, the much feared & loathed BGC is for employees, NOT contractors. 

It is no wonder this industry is as screwed up as it is when you get clowns like these people, that advocate their own agenda, while at the same time blame their own inadequacies on everybody else. And on the other hand, we have the crap stirrer, being allowed to continue to 'innocently' present questions about highly controversial topics, hoping for a conflict to begin all under the guise of just getting the forum members to 'discuss' or better, to "opine".


----------



## Cleanupman

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Holy crap! WHY ALL the mis-information? WTF? Can no one actually understand what they read? thanohano44, this is directed at YOU.
> 
> Now, how can ANYONE interpret this as being an "employee"?
> 
> And then we have this:
> Apparently, the much feared & loathed BGC is for employees, NOT contractors.
> 
> It is no wonder this industry is as screwed up as it is when you get clowns like these people, that advocate their own agenda, while at the same time blame their own inadequacies on everybody else. And on the other hand, we have the crap stirrer, being allowed to continue to 'innocently' present questions about highly controversial topics, hoping for a conflict to begin all under the guise of just getting the forum members to 'discuss' or better, to "opine".


I'll say it again...come out from behind the curtain...you wish to point fingers and insinuate people do not know what they are speaking about.
At least have the guts to fill our your profile so people know whom they are dealing with...
At this time your nothing but a sock puppet account that comes on as some authority figure. Fill your profile out...

As for the WF issue...this is for Pre-forclosure not post...
As I have stated before the WF we do here is not post...
I can understand to an extent but....

YOU DO NOT GET TO TELL ME HOW TO RUN OUR COMPANY....that is what the issue is...
not whom is trying to hide something....you don't get to make demands on my company period.....

and I'll say it again....when determining the IC/Employee issue...it is not one issue but the totality of how much direction and control another exerts over you(r) company....


----------



## Craigslist Hack

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> Holy crap! WHY ALL the mis-information? WTF? Can no one actually understand what they read? thanohano44, this is directed at YOU.
> 
> Now, how can ANYONE interpret this as being an "employee"?
> 
> And then we have this:
> Apparently, the much feared & loathed BGC is for employees, NOT contractors.
> 
> It is no wonder this industry is as screwed up as it is when you get clowns like these people, that advocate their own agenda, while at the same time blame their own inadequacies on everybody else. And on the other hand, we have the crap stirrer, being allowed to continue to 'innocently' present questions about highly controversial topics, hoping for a conflict to begin all under the guise of just getting the forum members to 'discuss' or better, to "opine".


They can not dictate policies for our companies and still call us independent contractors. 

What is your point exactly?


----------



## GTX63

I think the horse is dead....


----------



## hammerhead

nevermind.


----------



## cutting grass

Nationals are crossing a line with one foot 
The other foot the one that carries the cost associated with being an employer-
Health insurance, 401k and employers part of taxes-etc... is planted with no intention of following on the ic side of the line


----------



## rrogers66

I understand I am new to the industry. However, I have had experiences in other industries. Like I said once before, many times the so-called Industry organization are vehicle by which the big boys use your "membership" whether that be money or a headcount in which to say "we the, ABC Property Preservation Forum" speak for the industry. Once they obtain the attention of their intended audience, they assert their own agenda. You can bet you ass that agenda is self preservation through regulation and restrictions.

Think of it like this. The bottom line is that YES these companies can mandate all you see posted here and more. By YES I mean you have choice, accept and be mandated or no accept and be barred from work. 

That being said, what if these companies offered/pushed these mandates in order to force the smaller guys out because of expenses? What if these companies, once they are the ones left standing, controlled the work to the point of join their ranks/franchise/etc. if you want to work?

This is about reduction in competition and control. Look these companies are already at the top. Now they have a big office complex and over head etc. They want you to as well.

I was once in an industry that lobbied that a small company could not operate out of a residence. They had to operate out of a commercial store front. DO you realize how many lawn care, pool cleaners, maid services, etc would falter if that law was passed in their respective industries?

As I see here it appears that WF may be the ones requiring the BGC. Either way you see it, the BGC is for their(the bank, the Asset Management Co.) employees, even though we/you are not a direct employee, you are a representative of the Asset management co., as are your employees, therefore you would be subject to meet the same requirements.

This is a game as i see it so far of CYOA to the extreme. It appears both sides have been shafted you by corrupt Nationals the other by shoddy vendors. Both wanting maximum protection and benefit with reduce risk and liability. No a very good combination.

Not sure the solution but needs to be a true round table arbitration to improve the industry.

Just an outsider's initial observation.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

rrogers66 said:


> I understand I am new to the industry. However, I have had experiences in other industries. Like I said once before, many times the so-called Industry organization are vehicle by which the big boys use your "membership" whether that be money or a headcount in which to say "we the, ABC Property Preservation Forum" speak for the industry. Once they obtain the attention of their intended audience, they assert their own agenda. You can bet you ass that agenda is self preservation through regulation and restrictions.
> 
> Think of it like this. The bottom line is that YES these companies can mandate all you see posted here and more. By YES I mean you have choice, accept and be mandated or no accept and be barred from work.
> 
> That being said, what if these companies offered/pushed these mandates in order to force the smaller guys out because of expenses? What if these companies, once they are the ones left standing, controlled the work to the point of join their ranks/franchise/etc. if you want to work?
> 
> This is about reduction in competition and control. Look these companies are already at the top. Now they have a big office complex and over head etc. They want you to as well.
> 
> I was once in an industry that lobbied that a small company could not operate out of a residence. They had to operate out of a commercial store front. DO you realize how many lawn care, pool cleaners, maid services, etc would falter if that law was passed in their respective industries?
> 
> As I see here it appears that WF may be the ones requiring the BGC. Either way you see it, the BGC is for their(the bank, the Asset Management Co.) employees, even though we/you are not a direct employee, you are a representative of the Asset management co., as are your employees, therefore you would be subject to meet the same requirements.
> 
> This is a game as i see it so far of CYOA to the extreme. It appears both sides have been shafted you by corrupt Nationals the other by shoddy vendors. Both wanting maximum protection and benefit with reduce risk and liability. No a very good combination.
> 
> Not sure the solution but needs to be a true round table arbitration to improve the industry.
> 
> Just an outsider's initial observation.


I personally don't believe they care about the little guy at all. When you begin speaking with a national in any regard they ask you almost immediately how many states you cover. That is all they care about. They want coverage without exposure. These rules are being put into place to minimize their exposure.


----------



## BRADSConst

Craigslist Hack said:


> They can not dictate policies for our companies and still call us independent contractors.





Cleanupman said:


> YOU DO NOT GET TO TELL ME HOW TO RUN OUR COMPANY....that is what the issue is...
> not whom is trying to hide something....you don't get to make demands on my company period.....
> 
> and I'll say it again....when determining the IC/Employee issue...it is not one issue but the totality of how much direction and control another exerts over you(r) company....


This is really starting to get tiring. 

People/clients/other companies/governmental agencies, etc. make demands on my company (and yours) on a daily basis. It is all part of the cost of doing business. if you do not like it, tough , find someone else to work for and quit bitching about it.

Do I like paying taxes? no. Do I like paying a self employment tax? No. It is part of the cost of doing business.

Do I like the EPA lead law? No. It is part of the cost of doing business.

Do I like the state requiring me to take a continuing education classes to keep my GC license? No. It is part of the cost of doing business.

Do I like a customer telling me that I charge to much and could do the work for cheaper because someone on Craigslist said they could beat my price by $500? No.

Do I like and support a BGC? YES! My bitch about it is twofold. 1. Do not dictate to me who I purchase the BGC from. If I'm spending my money, I will choose what company to purchase it from. 2. I will supply everyone I receive work from the same BGC. Just like I do when submitting my GC license or certificate of insurance. This is part of the cost of doing business.

Think it doesn't matter? Think again, it does. Wait until a customer asks you about removing belonging from their house. This happened to me on a PRIVATE PARTY JOB. Immediately there after I started checking those that work for me.

In the technology age we live in and open records laws, any customer can Google my name, my company, my employees, etc. and determine whether or not they will hire my company to perform services on their house. I'll be damn to lose a job over having someone work for me who shouldn't be. Would they be discriminating against my company by choosing another contractor based on what they find?

If you don't want a background check, for whatever reason, then find different clients or a different line of work. Being that a lot of these properties are federally insured, be it HUD, VA, FNMA, FMAC, USDA, etc. I'd like to see the requirements become: Show me your DUNS number and show me your SAMS number. Then a lot of people will start bitching. It will also clean out 95% or more of the people/companies in this industry.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

BRADSConst said:


> This is really starting to get tiring.
> 
> People/clients/other companies/governmental agencies, etc. make demands on my company (and yours) on a daily basis. It is all part of the cost of doing business. if you do not like it, tough , find someone else to work for and quit bitching about it.
> 
> Do I like paying taxes? no. Do I like paying a self employment tax? No. It is part of the cost of doing business.
> 
> Do I like the EPA lead law? No. It is part of the cost of doing business.
> 
> Do I like the state requiring me to take a continuing education classes to keep my GC license? No. It is part of the cost of doing business.
> 
> Do I like a customer telling me that I charge to much and could do the work for cheaper because someone on Craigslist said they could beat my price by $500? No.
> 
> Do I like and support a BGC? YES! My bitch about it is twofold. 1. Do not dictate to me who I purchase the BGC from. If I'm spending my money, I will choose what company to purchase it from. 2. I will supply everyone I receive work from the same BGC. Just like I do when submitting my GC license or certificate of insurance. This is part of the cost of doing business.
> 
> Think it doesn't matter? Think again, it does. Wait until a customer asks you about removing belonging from their house. This happened to me on a PRIVATE PARTY JOB. Immediately there after I started checking those that work for me.
> 
> In the technology age we live in and open records laws, any customer can Google my name, my company, my employees, etc. and determine whether or not they will hire my company to perform services on their house. I'll be damn to lose a job over having someone work for me who shouldn't be. Would they be discriminating against my company by choosing another contractor based on what they find?
> 
> If you don't want a background check, for whatever reason, then find different clients or a different line of work. Being that a lot of these properties are federally insured, be it HUD, VA, FNMA, FMAC, USDA, etc. I'd like to see the requirements become: Show me your DUNS number and show me your SAMS number. Then a lot of people will start bitching. It will also clean out 95% or more of the people/companies in this industry.


One of my biggest issues with the laws that affect me is that no one asked me first.

There is a huge difference between state and federal requirements and Five Brothers trying to penalize a company for not accepting work orders to clean bombed out toilets.


----------



## BRADSConst

Craigslist Hack said:


> One of my biggest issues with the laws that affect me is that no one asked me first.
> 
> There is a huge difference between state and federal requirements and Five Brothers trying to penalize a company for not accepting work orders to clean bombed out toilets.


I don't work for the siblings so I can't comment. What I can say is that I don't blanket accept anything. I review each order and determine if I want to complete it and if it will be profitable for me. I'm sure there are many companies that would dictate I must accept everything in my coverage zone. However, I don't have any first hand knowledge as I don't work for them.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

BRADSConst said:


> I don't work for the siblings so I can't comment. What I can say is that I don't blanket accept anything. I review each order and determine if I want to complete it and if it will be profitable for me. I'm sure there are many companies that would dictate I must accept everything in my coverage zone. However, I don't have any first hand knowledge as I don't work for them.


This is my issue as well. I believe we have the right to accept each and every order based on our desire and ability to complete it. Hence the Sub Contractor agreement. Like you I prefer to review a scope of work and make whatever decision I feel is best for my company. The thing we are seeing more and more of not just from the brothers is companies sneaking work into allowables at no additional charge, penalties for orders not accepted or reassigned, and them requiring you to perform the work while at the property and BATF using a cost estimator.

These are the reasons I am upset with the industry. Not one of my clients required these things consistently like they do today or even at all when the relationship began. It's an evolution of the industry that I am not on board with. 

I have an exit strategy and I have been interviewing with a few companies. I am considering going back to the real world.


----------



## thanohano44

Field Audit Services LLC said:


> A never ending source of amazement (and entertainment) with me, is that people either don't read what was written, don't understand what was written, or both. And while that, in and of itself is of not worthy of speacial-ness, the simple fact that these same people are in business for themselves. Scary the thought that no one actually reads, much less understands their contract. They just sign on the dotted line and pitch a bitch after the fact because they didn't read and/or didn't comprehend the document they were presented with. :sad:
> 
> Again, I _specifically_ said "FELON...Murderers, Child Molestors etc...". I wonder how anyone can construe this to include a simple BS charge of releasing mylar balloons, that any para-legal can have quickly dismissed, and also, a HUGE DIFFERENCE in simply being charged with a felony, and being found guilty of a felony. So again, another lame analogy to try and further the 'I have something to hide and am protesting BGC', *OR* the 'I am on the bandwagon because I don't know what I'm doing so if I protest I will be one of 'the cool ones' then'.
> 
> Please, for you and your livlihoods sake, seek out _COMPETENT_ legal advice before you listen to the likes of those that want followers to make them feel important. Or they themselves are hiding something and trying to rally up a crowd of followers to help 'cloak' them...and their past. :icon_wink:


Great point ******.


----------



## STARBABY

Craigslist Hack said:


> This is my issue as well. I believe we have the right to accept each and every order based on our desire and ability to complete it. Hence the Sub Contractor agreement. Like you I prefer to review a scope of work and make whatever decision I feel is best for my company. The thing we are seeing more and more of not just from the brothers is companies sneaking work into allowables at no additional charge, penalties for orders not accepted or reassigned, and them requiring you to perform the work while at the property and BATF using a cost estimator.
> 
> These are the reasons I am upset with the industry. Not one of my clients required these things consistently like they do today or even at all when the relationship began. It's an evolution of the industry that I am not on board with.
> 
> I have an exit strategy and I have been interviewing with a few companies. I am considering going back to the real world.


got a email from brothers today ,asking why I can not get a professional bid (get a HVAC unit replaced). I had asked them to reassign it. Total waste of time for me. Would to take his bid add brother`s 20% then another 25% for myself. Then wait for there email of bid being cost estimator reduced. Lasty I do not want to foot the bill until I get paid, Just not worth it!


----------



## Craigslist Hack

STARBABY said:


> got a email from brothers today ,asking why I can not get a professional bid (get a HVAC unit replaced). I had asked them to reassign it. Total waste of time for me. Would to take his bid add brother`s 20% then another 25% for myself. Then wait for there email of bid being cost estimator reduced. Lasty I do not want to foot the bill until I get paid, Just not worth it!


You get to wait 30-45 days to lose money or maybe make $100.00?

Why aren't you jumping on that one?:thumbup:


----------



## STARBABY

Craigslist Hack said:


> You get to wait 30-45 days to lose money or maybe make $100.00?
> 
> Why aren't you jumping on that one?:thumbup:


years back I use to bid roof replacements and sub off to roofers, after everything would make around a $1000. Not anymore with there cost estimators!only tarp or patch roofs now!


----------

