# Survey



## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

many people have sent me their concerns about their concerns of saying things or commenting on subject matter in open forums...
Here is a survey that will allow one to remain anonymous....
this is part one of tow parts. The second part will be generated fro the survey question...
Survey is 10 questions...

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GR8YQ5B

Thanks.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

very interesting results rolling in...will put some numbers up in a couple days....


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## MNanny (May 23, 2013)

I took the survey and can't wait for the results...


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

*re*

I don't understand how people think that independent contractors can organize. Can someone please explain how that would work? Because I'll be honest if everyone formed a union I would simply not join it and then offer to do work for slightly cheaper and never pay any union dues.


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

LOL
Union for P&P work?????
WOW
You people do realize that you are INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS!!????
If you don't like what you are being paid or how a client is treating you then DON'T DO THE WORK
It's not rocket science.
And people need to realize that this industry is not all about working for national, regional, safeguard, fas, ams, etc....
I HATE hearing all of the crying and bad mouthing on this forum about this industry because your only experience is with these types of companies.
Try working DIRECT, you will see that this is a VERY profitable business!
Oh, and before you start saying that there is no direct work in your area you are WRONG!!
There is direct work EVERYWHERE, maybe someone else is already doing it but it's there!


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

bigdaddy said:


> LOL
> Union for P&P work?????
> WOW
> You people do realize that you are INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS!!????
> ...



You make money?


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

Valley said:


> You make money?


Your in PA, wanna find out?
Lets meet up. You bring your tax and bank statements and I'll bring mine.
What kind of wager you wanna make??


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

bigdaddy said:


> Your in PA, wanna find out?
> Lets meet up. You bring your tax and bank statements and I'll bring mine.
> What kind of wager you wanna make??



Sorry if i insulted you, that was all in fun. Are you trying to threaten me?


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

well you changed your original post, before it had a :lol:
so i took that as you think its funny and i don't make money
how the hell did i threaten you?


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

bigdaddy said:


> well you changed your original post, before it had a :lol:
> so i took that as you think its funny and i don't make money
> how the hell did i threaten you?



I changed it because it was to be a thumbs up. not the other. And i didnt say you threatened me. I ask if you were trying to. Either way i dont really give care


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## Freddie (Jun 13, 2012)

Children please....


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

Freddie said:


> Children please....



:lol:


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## GaReops (Aug 7, 2012)

How does anyone make all this "money" and have time to post so much? :whistling2:


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

HAHA.......:thumbsup:


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

GaReops said:


> How does anyone make all this "money" and have time to post so much? :whistling2:


OMG, 8 post in 4 months, how ever do I find time to make money with all of the posting????


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## GaReops (Aug 7, 2012)

You would think with all this "money making" you would be a little calmer. You are awful quick to jump the gun. Lets compare bank accounts?.. Who says this. Teach me the ways Donald Trump of P&P! :thumbup:


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

Wasn't there supposed to be something about a survey or something here. . .fftopic:

Let's get back to the topic at hand. . .:gunsmilie:


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

independent contractors in a union?

I'm informing everyone that the National Laborers Union has been pursuing that P&P work that involves Government backed loans be processed through the Laborers union. 

The question is: WILL YOU join the union to work on 90%+ of the properties? 

A very very good friend is a very very high up Laborers Union National Rep and this has been in the works for appx a year. Its coming is what he said at the 4th of July parade. To qualify this guy was my brothers best man 20yrs ago. He knows.....

To me I dont care. I dropped out of all National work 11-1-11 & only remain working for realtors and Bank 203 loans.


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

Wannabe said:


> independent contractors in a union?
> 
> I'm informing everyone that the National Laborers Union has been pursuing that P&P work that involves Government backed loans be processed through the Laborers union.
> 
> ...



As far as i am concerned the union call take a long jump off a mountain side. I am from a Steele town. The union killed this city. And also hurt a lot of good hard working people in the process. The jobs went to other States where they could get dirt cheap labor without the cost. Where was the union when peoples extended unemployment benefits ran out. Knocking on the saying we dont have any work for you,but your dues need payed.

I have other business that i run and own. So i could care less about some scumbag union wanting to their hands in on this work. They dont care about the people. Like everyone else its all about the money for them also.And how much they can get from you in the process.

In the end they gets theirs and you wont get yours.

And besides, i dont see how being a business owner you could join the union.

That would be like say that the presidents of the banks couldld join also


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Valley said:


> As far as i am concerned the union call take a long jump off a mountain side. I am from a Steele town. The union killed this city. And also hurt a lot of good hard working people in the process. The jobs went to other States where they could get dirt cheap labor without the cost. Where was the union when peoples extended unemployment benefits ran out. Knocking on the saying we dont have any work for you,but your dues need payed.
> 
> I have other business that i run and own. So i could care less about some scumbag union wanting to their hands in on this work. They dont care about the people. Like everyone else its all about the money for them also.And how much they can get from you in the process.
> 
> ...


Isn't working for the nats and regionals like working for the union? They regulate pricing. Promise you all kinds of work that you don't need to go prospecting for and they take a cut??? Etc etc WTF


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## Valley (Mar 12, 2013)

thanohano44 said:


> Isn't working for the nats and regionals like working for the union? They regulate pricing. Promise you all kinds of work that you don't need to go prospecting for and they take a cut??? Etc etc WTF


Exactly.Its just another entity dipping in your pocket


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## ADP LLC (May 15, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Isn't working for the nats and regionals like working for the union? They regulate pricing. Promise you all kinds of work that you don't need to go prospecting for and they take a cut??? Etc etc WTF


The consumer ALWAYS regulates your pricing no matter what market you are in. And I sure as hell am not going to regulate MY pricing based on what the rest of you all are charging (UNION). That's for the consumer to decide. The freedom here is that we all can pick what consumer gets our work and we don't ever have to settle for low "rates" if we don't want to. 

COMPETITION is EVERYTHING Don't be afraid of it.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

ADP LLC said:


> The consumer ALWAYS regulates your pricing no matter what market you are in. And I sure as hell am not going to regulate MY pricing based on what the rest of you all are charging (UNION). That's for the consumer to decide. The freedom here is that we all can pick what consumer gets our work and we don't ever have to settle for low "rates" if we don't want to.
> 
> COMPETITION is EVERYTHING Don't be afraid of it.


Consumer regulates????
Can you pay 99 cents for a gallon of milk
1,25 for a gallon of gas??
1.00 for the locks you have to buy????
POPPYCOCK.
This is the only industry the "Client" dictates what they will pay....
Tell tha gal at See's candy you only have a nickle for the chocolate....or the guy at the fish store you can only pay 2 cents each for the feeders...I certainly hope you've gotten the idea because I can do this until there is no more room to post on this site....

As for the results to this survay.
I have submitted an article for publication it is currently being reviewed and edited.
I will have a follow up and will post the results once the article has been published....
Thanks to all that participated and here hoping more of you will join in on the next survey....
I will be doing several more of these in an effort to formulate a strategy for up coming negotiations to issues in the industry...
Pass the word...As to the question about being afraid to speak on fear of reprisal...60-40


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> Consumer regulates????
> Can you pay 99 cents for a gallon of milk
> 1,25 for a gallon of gas??
> 1.00 for the locks you have to buy????
> ...



Don't you think that the 1,159 members of this site deserve to see the results of the survey you posted here before you "publish" them elsewhere? Seems like common courtesy.
Makes me wonder what your agenda might be? I don't think I'll participate in any future surveys that you post on this site.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

In a true, unregulated, free market, a product is worth just what it sells for. The US economy is not a true free market.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> In a true, unregulated, free market, a product is worth just what it sells for. The US economy is not a true free market.


So True...


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

PropPresPro said:


> Don't you think that the 1,159 members of this site deserve to see the results of the survey you posted here before you "publish" them elsewhere? Seems like common courtesy.
> Makes me wonder what your agenda might be? I don't think I'll participate in any future surveys that you post on this site.


The results will not be publish...an article based on the results...
I have a contract....
I'm just waiting for the formalities....once those are out of the way...
This is a new frontier for me so I'm treading very carefully until I see how things will work....But they should be up later today....
If I'm cleared to put the results out prior to the articles being published I certainly will do so....That is one of the questions I did submit when I sent things in for review...


11:43am PST...I have been asked to hold off on posting the results until we can formulate the next set of survey questions based on the comments of the esay question...that was Question #9...if you could implement one change/policy....as soon as we get that done I will post all the results for everyone to see....


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> The results will not be publish...an article based on the results...
> I have a contract....
> I'm just waiting for the formalities....once those are out of the way...
> This is a new frontier for me so I'm treading very carefully until I see how things will work....But they should be up later today....
> ...



Bull


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

*Survey Results...and commentary...Mindset of the Industry*

Mindset of the Industry

For the past couple of years I have been attempting to make the Boots on the Ground Contractor (BOTG) of the Property Preservation Industry (PPI) understand they need to join forces together for a common good. Their common good. What I have found is that is much easier said than done!!!








One of the biggest fears many contractors have is voicing their opinions or doing something in a manner that the National Preservation Order Mills (NPOM) or Regional Order Mills (ROM), in essence their clients, will hear or find out. Small things like joining an organization perceived to be a threat to the monopolized industry or making statements in public forums. When I ask fellow Contractors about this I constantly hear the “Fear Factor” so I decided to set up some surveys in an anonymous format so members of the PPI could provide some input without fear of reprisal. The pie chart is a graphic illustration of how long the participants of the survey have been involved in the PPI. 
What is literally amazing is that 82.2% of the participants feel that organization of the BOTG would benefit them. When pressed a little more specifically and asked; Do you thing the industry would benefit from being unionized only 48% said yes, with 49.3% stating they would join a union if the PPI had one. This came from 88.9% of the participants claiming to be BOTG. Now keep in mind that one of the organizations out there, The National Property Preservation Guild, (NPPG) an organization that claims to be Contractors for Contractors, defines a BOTG Contractor as a contractor that goes out in the field and actually completes services. Interesting that while an overwhelming amount of participants agree that organizing the BOTG would help the industry that only a little over half would join a Union. Perhaps the name Union has a bad connotation and ring to it? Especially when asked; Do you feel that if you belonged to an organization that stood up for Contractors it would affect on your workloads…58.1% said no. On the other hand when asked; Do you feel voicing your opinion about the industry in public would bring adverse results to your business, 56.8% said yes.
While only 75% of the participants responded to the question…If you had the opportunity to implement one policy to improve the PPI what would it be…the overwhelming answers were actually twofold, 1. Standardize the pay scale and 2. Rid the industry of the ROM and companies “subbing” the work. (Something I have been saying for the past three years). While there were a few other suggestions…Get rid of SGP, have a Non Profit Organization go to bat for the Contractors, the main topic was the afore mentioned. 
When asked; Do you feel there is an organization in the PPI that truly represents the best interests of the BOTG Contractors…42.7% said no, 37.3% said they don’t know of any organizations representing the BOTG. 80% of the participants feel that there is no adequate representation or know of none.
Currently there are two main organizations out there National Association of Mortgage Field Services or NAMFS and the NPPG. One, NAMFS, claims to represent ALL party’s best interests in the PPI and the later, NPPG, claiming to represent the Contractors. So why haven’t these organizations taken a position on these issues in the industry? Why haven’t they used their resources to conduct surveys and come up with solutions to the convoluted mess called the PPI???? The word gutless comes to mind. However, in the interest of being fair let’s actually examine something here. 
The majority of the contractors would eliminate the groups of business that are “subbing” out the work. This creates a very serious dichotomy for both of these organizations. There is absolutely no way they can take a stand against this part of the industry. To do so would be utter insanity to take a position against companies “subbing” work as a business model. You see this would be business suicide for many of the Board of Directors of these organizations. If you look at the members that comprise the Board of Directors you’ll see that their business models are that of ROM, or “subbing” on a smaller scale, what has been identified as Otherwise Unauthorized Order Mills. So the reality throughout the PPI is there is no organization that truly represents the best interests of the Boots on the Ground Contractors. 
Where to look for this type of organization or how to develop the solution to this…I have no answer at this time. Except to say that BOTG Contractors need to stop back stabbing each other and start organizing on a local level. The small PPI companies need to start looking to each other as assets and not enemies to each other. The small BOTG guys and gals need to start meeting with each other once a month…hold conference calls with each other once a week…They need to start communicating with each other and quit allowing the NPOM, ROM, and OUOM to stop pitting them against each other with the thought of grandiose streams of fortunes rolling in because they will provide large streams of volume to make that $40 winterization work.
This is part one of a series that I will be writing on this subject. I will place another survey based on the answers to the survey question that was in the survey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GR8YQ5B). I hope more of you will participate in these surveys. This survey had 75 participants. In addition I have placed surveys to gather information from members of the Real Estate Industry in order to help understand their position on the state of the PPI. Stay tuned as this could become very interesting. 
Thanks for tuning in today…have a good week everybody and let’s be safe out there!


PAGE: 1
DownloadCreate Chart1. Do feel the PPI would benefit if the Contractors were organized?

answered question	73
skipped question	2
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 82.2%	60
No 17.8%	13
DownloadCreate Chart2. How long have you been a Property Preservation Contractor?

answered question	75
skipped question	0
Response
Percent	Response
Count
1-3 Years 22.7%	17
3-5 Years 22.7%	17
5-7 years 22.7%	17
7-10 Years 17.3%	13
10-15 Years 8.0%	6
15+ years 6.7%	5
DownloadCreate Chart3. Do you have multiple clients?

answered question	75
skipped question	0
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 93.3%	70
No 6.7%	5
DownloadCreate Chart4. Do you feel voicing your opinion about the industry in public would bring adverse results to your business?
answered question	74
skipped question	1
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 56.8%	42
No 43.2%	32
DownloadCreate Chart5. Do you feel that if you belonged to an organization that stood up for the Contractors would hurt your businesses workloads?
answered question	74
skipped question	1
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 41.9%	31
No 58.1%	43
DownloadCreate Chart6. Are you a "boots one the Ground" Contractor? IE; you perform all the work or have employees complete services that are not trade specific?
answered question	75
skipped question	0
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 88.0%	66
No 12.0%	9
DownloadCreate Chart7. Do you think the industry would benefit from being Unionized?

answered question	75
skipped question	0
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 48.0%	36
No 52.0%	39
DownloadCreate Chart8. If the PPI had a Union would you join?

answered question	73
skipped question	2
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 49.3%	36
No 50.7%	37
Download9. If you had an opportunity to implement one policy to improve the Property Preservation Industry what would it be?
answered question	56
skipped question	19
Response
Count
Show Responses
56
DownloadCreate Chart10. Do you feel that there is an organization in the Property Preservation Industry that truly represents the best interests of the Boots on the Ground Contractors?
answered question	75
skipped question	0
Response
Percent	Response
Count
Yes 20.0%	15
No 42.7%	32
Don't know of any Organizations representing the Boots on the Ground Contractors. 37.3%	28


faster pay
7/14/2013 5:34 AMView Responses
The ability to charge interest.
7/13/2013 8:07 AMView Responses
pay structure
7/13/2013 6:26 AMView Responses
Training
7/12/2013 9:11 PMView Responses
Streamline picture requirements and get rid of discount structure.
7/12/2013 6:03 PMView Responses
no more chargebacks.....for anything
7/12/2013 3:59 PMView Responses
A NON PROFIT organization that Would have strength in numbers to help with the following issues that I know plague all preservation contractors on a daily basis? . Contractor job security . Real world training . Help with legal issues . Better buying power . Discounts on supplies . Fair and reasonable pricing guidelines . Have some say in the new guidelines, . Someone to answer your questions . Be part of a system that works . Help in growing are business I think a union would add another level of profit seekers taking money from the contractors that are already struggling to make a living doing p&p work.
7/11/2013 8:25 AMView Responses
Contractors determine the prices, not the other way around. I would also remove the phrase "Boots on the Ground"; though a lot of veterans serve in this industry, that phrase is incongruous with the actual work and is, in itself, a falsity.
7/11/2013 6:27 AMView Responses
Honesty and on time paynents
7/11/2013 5:53 AMView Responses
Standard fee structures
7/11/2013 3:26 AMView Responses
Lobby to force Nationals to have clients increase pricing with increased costs . I know many industries are Being asked to do more for less but this industry is ridiculous
7/10/2013 10:26 PMView Responses
fee standardization
7/10/2013 4:12 PMView Responses
Remove all the secrecy.
7/10/2013 3:40 PMView Responses
pay on time and pay fair prices
7/10/2013 3:37 PMView Responses
transparency from the Nationals
7/10/2013 3:04 PMView Responses
More quality checks by independent parties
7/10/2013 1:52 PMView Responses
I would implement Continuing Education or CE requirements in order to do business.
7/10/2013 12:57 AMView Responses
work payment standardization
7/10/2013 12:16 AMView Responses
Anything that helps build trust on the ground. It's difficult to always prove your work, but there are so many untrustworthy providers that I'm always stuff having to prove myself to separate myself from them. Some type of standardized system outside the banks and nationals that allows us to build a good record and history which the banks and nationals trust would be a huge benefit as we could potentially eliminate a lot of hassle with so many photos and returns to the property.
7/10/2013 9:59 AMView Responses
Standard Pricing and turn times
7/10/2013 8:29 AMView Responses
Do away with the 30 day net.Make payable within 10 days upon completion
7/10/2013 8:19 AMView Responses
No regionals
7/10/2013 7:54 AMView Responses
I honestly believe that if an investigative news source would infiltrate the industry and actually see and feel the issues, the whole industry would change. Right now its not far from being a Pyramid Scheme. I don't know if a Union is the answer either, unions tend to, as they grow, support the officers interests just like a regional or national. I believe the issue starts at HUD and the the other government agencies that are serving the large companies with congressional attachments and not the boots on the ground army. I believe a congressional investigation would shut down many of the nationals/regionals that treat contractors like employees. HUD'S bid system worked well, this cost estimator system was designed to put the small contractor out of business.
7/10/2013 7:09 AMView Responses
Price to HUD specs
7/10/2013 6:35 AMView Responses
that only licensed contractors service the properties, not craigslist hacks,then fees would go up accordingly
7/10/2013 5:52 AMView Responses
NONE. The industry flows in any wild direction. This is a free market.
7/10/2013 5:45 AMView Responses
BATF.
7/10/2013 4:54 AMView Responses
Standardized pay
7/10/2013 3:06 AMView Responses
Return the authority to the real estate agents
7/9/2013 10:28 PMView Responses
Standardization of payment terms
7/9/2013 9:20 PMView Responses
Government audits to ensure that properties have routine landscaping services completed every two weeks at minimum.
7/9/2013 8:36 PMView Responses
No Flat rate job! Only pay per. FHA,HUD,ect minus discount!
7/9/2013 7:44 PMView Responses
All vendor coordinators would have to go out into the field at least one time ( of the contractors choice for the entire length of the job) to see what is involved.
7/9/2013 6:49 PMView Responses
All contractors had to go through hud training course and everybody done things the same way to guid lines and pay scale was on more of a level playing feild
7/9/2013 6:09 PMView Responses
Banks/Nationals should have a hard limit on the amount work is cut before it's paid to the bottom level person. As in, I'm paying $100 for this winterization it's not acceptable if the person who is completing that only makes $25. Who would pay for the work knowing your money is not getting to the person working?
7/9/2013 5:48 PMView Responses
pricing structure
7/9/2013 5:18 PMView Responses
get rid of safeguard properties
7/9/2013 4:56 PMView Responses
better pay
7/9/2013 3:14 PMView Responses
Bogus chargebacks. In order for a company to implement a chargeback, they should have to get approval from contractor or take them to court...they should not be able to be judge, jury and executioner. Chargebacks should be made illegal, and any company who enforces them should be fined.
7/9/2013 2:39 PMView Responses
No bid after the fact. All work should be agreed upon before work begins.
7/9/2013 2:10 PMView Responses
Accross the board rates
7/9/2013 1:52 PMView Responses
Implement HUD pricing on all GSE loan types
7/9/2013 1:51 PMView Responses
Contractors should not have to do the work for a set allowable there bids should be honored
7/9/2013 1:33 PMView Responses
Get rid of cheap hacks
7/9/2013 1:32 PMView Responses
That the companies we work for are a bit more professional and up front about payments, work, and realize that this is hard work and we have to spend out lots of money on most work orders, however the companies do not want to pay us for our hard, dirty work that we do.
7/9/2013 12:41 AMView Responses
GET RID OF NATIONALS & REGIONALS
7/9/2013 12:19 AMView Responses
de monopolize the industry
7/9/2013 11:12 AMView Responses
Organization amongst contractors to help keep the regionals and nationals from driving down prices.
7/9/2013 10:32 AMView Responses
Third party arbitration on charebacks
7/9/2013 10:28 AMView Responses
money comeing in fast
7/9/2013 9:11 AM


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> ...I have a contract....
> I'm just waiting for the formalities....If I'm cleared to put the results out prior to the articles being published I certainly will do so....



You are performing research here and promising the results of that research to a third party via your contract? And if they allow you, you will provide your participants with the results of the survey? I'm liking this less & less.

Who is it that you are either benefitting or benefitting from or most likely both with my participation? Who is your contract with?


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

PropPresPro said:


> You are performing research here and promising the results of that research to a third party via your contract? And if they allow you, you will provide your participants with the results of the survey? I'm liking this less & less.
> 
> Who is it that you are either benefitting or benefitting from or most likely both with my participation? Who is your contract with?


I have a contract to write x-amount of articles for an organization that has assisted our company. the services were basically a barter agreement...whether they actually get published or not is yet to be seen but I do have to stand behind my obligation. 

That said...I wanted to wait to see how to proceed.
For the most part this information will be provided to those/organizations whom feel they can use it to assist in their negotiations...If you feel the results and information will benefit you in your negotiations you are free to use it...as that is the intent...not sure if that answers your benefit question or not...But once I have analysed and put the information out there everyone is free to use it and I hope if it will assist them in negotiating they do use it...

The next set of questions will be formulated from the written responses on question #9...

Going forward, I will be free to post results and my commentary without having to have approval...so there will only be editing time frames not the four days that was involved on this...
Basically I was cautioning on the side of error...

In addition to this site I do network on sites that have 1,000's more members than this group...You're not the only one I have had this discussion with!!!! 
hey, I hope that clears the air on this????
Let me know if there is anything else I can answer or do...


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

PropPresPro said:


> Don't you think that the 1,159 members of this site deserve to see the results of the survey you posted here before you "publish" them elsewhere? Seems like common courtesy.
> Makes me wonder what your agenda might be? I don't think I'll participate in any future surveys that you post on this site.




In response to this....we had 75 participants...so do I feel obligated to this site first??? not to be rude but no....I get 1100 participants that chime in then yes I would have some sort of obligation to make this site the priority...

Sorry but calculating for 20% of that number gone 75 participants if all were from this site would be .081%

I'm not sure why people will not participate in questions or trying to develop solutions in this industry...
I'll leave it at that


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> In response to this....we had 75 participants...so do I feel obligated to this site first??? not to be rude but no....I get 1100 participants that chime in then yes I would have some sort of obligation to make this site the priority...
> 
> Sorry but calculating for 20% of that number gone 75 participants if all were from this site would be .081%
> 
> ...


Aaron don't give up.... Even if everyone else has a different point of view.


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