# Occupied I think not



## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

So we went to do an initial on a property a few days ago and did the usual knocking on the door, ring door bell to see if anyone comes to the door nothing. 
So we proceeded to do the lock change, pcr, ect. When outside we heard what sounded like running water, of course the huge ice patch right outside of the garage kind of was a dead giveaway that there was water coming from somewhere.
Found a busted baseboard with water running out of it (the electric was on). So we turned the water off to prevent any further damage. The toilets were frozen solid and there was maybe 30 yards of debris mostly bags of trash and empty boxes. 

He gets approval to thaw property to winterize best as possible and when he goes back to the property today (5 days later) there is a NO Tresspassing sign and a note that states property is occupied. 

I find it funny that who ever put that note and sign really thinks the bank is going to believe someone is living in a frozen home. The house had no recent evidence of any activity unless you count mouse droppings. Even the windows were frosted up with ice.


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## MKM Landscaping (Sep 27, 2012)

In New Hampshire no trespassing signs mean nothing unless they are hand written on the signs, just saying either which way there is nothing easy in this field


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Now who are we to judge how people live?


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

A property is not abandoned if the owner can document they drove by a looked at it a minimum of 1x per month...

We learned that on a very earily similar story as yours to the tune of $15,000. I would go back and PUL all or any signage that has your OR your service companies name so its difficult (not impossible) tp find you and make a trespassing charge on ya. Nothing like a Sheriff knocking on your door at 5:30 to serve ya!


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

ctquietcorner said:


> I find it funny that who ever put that note and sign really thinks the bank is going to believe someone is living in a frozen home. The house had no recent evidence of any activity unless you count mouse droppings. Even the windows were frosted up with ice.


 
Had a shack in the country one of my crews secured during a sub zero day; broken pipes and 4' of frozen water in the cellar. County sheriff called us 6 weeks later and said the owner wanted to file a police report, claiming we stole a box of VHS pornos from his basement. They were still there of course, just frozen below the surface.
Joking aside, don't count on the national or the bank yukking it up with their hand on your shoulder. You will be the first one hung out to dry if there is any pushback from the owner or the authorities. We too have had our fair share of legal issues over supposedly empty properties.


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Now who are we to judge how people live?


 
I really don't care how anyone lives, but if this property is supposedly occupied and this person might have kids (a few pieces of childrens clothes were observed) living there then that is an issue and I will call DYF on them for child endangerment. We have had 5 degree days with windchills up to -20 and if someone is living in a frozen house I don't want to go there again and find a dead body or two or more.


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

Have to update you all. 
Apparently the person who put the handwritten no tresspassing note on the door is NOT the owner of the property, but a girlfriend who feels she has rights to the property. The real owner passed away over a year ago and the house is owned by the bank as of 3/2013. The town records also show that owner is indeed the bank. We have received a work order to meet a sheriff at the property for a physical eviction if she is in fact living there. Which I personally don't think she is as the note had a Massachusetts phone number and the property is in Connecticut. We will see tomorrow.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Every state and even every county is different, however, we had seen instances where the home owner will have someone such as a girlfriend, cousin, etc, set up as an occupant. There are sheriffs who will refuse an eviction because the unknown adult(s) are not listed on the paperwork signed by the judge. On more than one occassion we have had to notify a National's legal team to reorder an eviction and include "all occupants" to the judgement.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Exactly right GTX! We found out that these States really have no "set in stone" laws pertaining to the definition of occupied or abandoned. There is our "understanding" of what the word means THEN there is the legal definition which is determined by how each atty or judge interprets. 

A broker yesterday was complaining over a personal property eviction since the sheriff determined propery unoccupied and still had tons of valuable contents while 3 weeks ago another sheriff LOST a lawsuit over $500 worth of quilting patches that was left behind by prior owner... No rhyme or reason to the game.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Our policy is if there is even a hint of occupancy we bail. One work order is not worth the headache or cost something like this could bring. It's better to be safe than sorry.:yawn:


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## dac1204 (Feb 16, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Every state and even every county is different, however, we had seen instances where the home owner will have someone such as a girlfriend, cousin, etc, set up as an occupant. There are sheriffs who will refuse an eviction because the unknown adult(s) are not listed on the paperwork signed by the judge. On more than one occassion we have had to notify a National's legal team to reorder an eviction and include "all occupants" to the judgement.


 

I didnt know that they didnt put this wording on every eviction notice. Every one that I have ever done has said "to all occupants" and then the owners name. I have also done some that have also stated "to all persons claiming intrest in this property"


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## westcoast Man (Jan 6, 2014)

ctquietcorner said:


> So we went to do an initial on a property a few days ago and did the usual knocking on the door, ring door bell to see if anyone comes to the door nothing.
> So we proceeded to do the lock change, pcr, ect. When outside we heard what sounded like running water, of course the huge ice patch right outside of the garage kind of was a dead giveaway that there was water coming from somewhere.
> Found a busted baseboard with water running out of it (the electric was on). So we turned the water off to prevent any further damage. The toilets were frozen solid and there was maybe 30 yards of debris mostly bags of trash and empty boxes.
> 
> ...


Regardless of what you "feel", once you been in this business long enough, you will realize that , that sign means, someone says they are living there and if you trespass you are taking responsibility that you clearly disregarded a sign that states property is occupied and there is a god chance you will be blamed for thousands of dollars in stolen property, even when the property was absolutely empty. When in doubt property is occupied and bank needs to send an approval letter stating please proceed even though property appears occupied ( Which they wont do, but takes a lot of heat off your butt ) Learned this the hard way and wont make same mistake!


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

never, NEVER, never disregard a note posted on a property saying the house is occupied. In the story you referenced, you could be sued for the water damage. And any other damages or missing items.

Been there, done that. First visit, no note, house appears vacant, all utils off, no furniture present. Second visit, note is posted saying do not enter - property occupied. Note was posted on front door. Missed it going around back to our lock change. Found it after winterization had been completed. From there, lawyers got involved.

Lesson learned.

PS - good pictures saved our butts.


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

Just so you all know the no tresspassing sign WAS NOT there the first time we went to the property. If it was we would not have done anything, but take a picture and submit it. The sign appeared a few days later when we got a different work order for the property.


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

Husband just called and the lady got arrested for tresspassing and interfering with a bank owned property's maintenace. 
She happened to show up while the sheriff and my husband were there. She stormed in demanding to know who was tresspassing in her house. When the sheriff explained he was there for an eviction and asked for her name she apparently went off on him. Stating that her boyfriend left the house to her, but there is no written proof of anything relating to her even living at the address ever.

There are some crazy people in this world.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Yep Crazy like a fox 

She is doing it just like the book says.... She will file the charges with the District Atty who may or may not execute the trespass... Then the Atty Gen will be notified of an improper eviction and then the personal lawyer will sue. Will she win? Probably won't be awarded the property but the Bank will pay her a few $1000's to make her go away and your insurance will pay a few $1000's to make her go away AND you will pay your deductible instead of countersue to make her go away....

Been there done that! Sickening eh?

PS... If I was her attorney I would take a 100 of these cases and retire within 1 year


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

We did an eviction about a month ago where the guy was offered $3500 for a CFK offer and he told them to pound sand. He was loading the U-Haul truck when the papers were served on him. 

When we arrived a couple weeks later we found a note written in marker on the door to keep out or he would shot you. (actually wrote shot, not shoot). Everybody was in agreement that the guy was not there but chances were not to be taken. So we all pull back and the deputy calls in reinforcements. 

After about six deputies arrive and they all put on vests, helmets, etc. and load up the AR-15s they surround the house and cover the locksmith. 

It took over an hour to get into house because he screwed all the doors shut from the inside and exited through the garage. The locksmith and the deputies had to break a window out in a garage door and reach in and release the garage door opener to open the door. 

Once inside the discovered the door to the kitchen from the garage was screwed shut too. So they finally get it opened and the deputies were able to clear the house. They checked for booby traps too before they gave us the all clear to perform the eviction. 

It was very interesting to watch.


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

Wannabe said:


> Yep Crazy like a fox
> 
> She is doing it just like the book says.... She will file the charges with the District Atty who may or may not execute the trespass... Then the Atty Gen will be notified of an improper eviction and then the personal lawyer will sue. Will she win? Probably won't be awarded the property but the Bank will pay her a few $1000's to make her go away and your insurance will pay a few $1000's to make her go away AND you will pay your deductible instead of countersue to make her go away....
> 
> ...


Really? Even with no proof that she ever even lived at that property and that she is living in Massachusetts and not in property in Connecticut. I don't see how that is even possible. We will see what happens, but I know my husband won't go down with out a fight.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yep, it happens more than you think. Squatters do it all of the time. Home is where you hang your hat.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Don't think he'll be doing a CFK anytime soon.


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Yep, it happens more than you think. Squatters do it all of the time. Home is where you hang your hat.


 
I do know in CT that squatters must show an uninterrupted occupany of 15 years in order to have any rights to a property. There must be solid proof that they live and maintain the property in order to become the legal owner.


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