# Plumbing In Wisconsin



## MKT (May 7, 2014)

All the hack work is getting out of control. I have basically been forced back into mid Wisconsin regions and already do not enjoy what I am seeing.

I recently came across repairs made to a main sewer line in house.Seeing how the work was done is a major concern & shows how RECKLESS people are becoming so that they can get a quick and maximized profit with no concern other than " turning a profit". Your right no one can compete with your practices -your prices are the lowest - but they are so far out of anything that is reasonable that no one in their right minds would take on the risk to perform work in such a manner.

Now I am glad that the situation was not out of control yet - As in I did not blow myself up. What comes from sewer lines - " Methane Gas" - :thumbsup:

Is it safe to assume that rubber couplings are acceptable forms of materials for main sewer lines? NO!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry you are not making repairs with a $3 coupling, this is illogical, ill advised, dangerous, & shows the utmost incompetence in what you are doing.

Now had you got Shielded couplings maybe you could get away with it. But instead of $3 you would have to spend $110. So by doing this you are showing me that my life or other people's or even your own life holds the value of $107.00

Here is a link to a shielded coupling

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...ete-to-ci-or-plastic-coup/p-134593-c-9369.htm


Additional Info On Wisconsin Laws for those who think it's a free for all - 

The myth that building permits are not required in Wisconsin. 

Building permits are not required in the State of Wisconsin for those who are "Owner Occupants of the Dwelling". In this situation you do not need dwelling contractor certifications. For all houses that are not owner occupied / and work is not being completed by the owner, Building Permits Are Required.

Plumbing does not fall under a " Dwelling Contractor Certification" or a Dwelling Contractor Qualifier" in Wisconsin. Plumber's have their own credential requirements. A link to those requirements is below.

http://www.contractors-license.org/wi/Wisconsin.html#wi4

I thought before we all start running around playing " MASTER PLUMBER " it would be good to have some kind of understanding of the situation.


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## JenkinsHB (Apr 11, 2012)

Where are you now? I might need to send you some orders.


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## MKT (May 7, 2014)

JenkinsHB said:


> Where are you now? I might need to send you some orders.



Still in Dresser on MN / WI border. Going to get deeper into Wisconsin soon because not working twin cities anymore. I have made it to Chippewa / Eau Claire Counties so far.

Tough switch now I have to fight the sun Morning & Night.


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

MKT said:


> All the hack work is getting out of control. I have basically been forced back into mid Wisconsin regions and already do not enjoy what I am seeing.
> 
> I recently came across repairs made to a main sewer line in house.Seeing how the work was done is a major concern & shows how RECKLESS people are becoming so that they can get a quick and maximized profit with no concern other than " turning a profit". Your right no one can compete with your practices -your prices are the lowest - but they are so far out of anything that is reasonable that no one in their right minds would take on the risk to perform work in such a manner.
> 
> ...


What residential property has a 10" in-house sewer line?????
I would like to see photos on this BS story!
Largest around here is 4" and a Fernco cost $8 NOT $110
And this $8 coupling conforms to the requirement of ASTM C1460

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Fernco-3...pling-Cast-Iron-to-Plastic-Steel-or-Cast-Iron


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## JenkinsHB (Apr 11, 2012)

Superior and Webster. Call me tomorrow.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

That might be news but generals don't want to do p&p I don't know what you trying to prove? Do you think builders work for sg in wi or any plumbers for that matter? They get what they pay for period. If you work for these prices good for you, I know few people that left area for many reasons that were more than qualified. So you take their place or being forced, you know why? no one wants it


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## JenkinsHB (Apr 11, 2012)

bigdaddy said:


> What residential property has a 10" in-house sewer line?????
> I would like to see photos on this BS story!
> Largest around here is 4" and a Fernco cost $8 NOT $110
> And this $8 coupling conforms to the requirement of ASTM C1460
> ...



Chill ... he just looked up the wrong part.


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## JenkinsHB (Apr 11, 2012)

newreo said:


> That might be news but generals don't want to do p&p I don't know what you trying to prove? Do you think builders work for sg in wi or any plumbers for that matter? They get what they pay for period. If you work for these prices good for you, I know few people that left area for many reasons that were more than qualified. So you take their place or being forced, you know why? no one wants it



I hire plumbers, electricians, excavators, and HVAC contractors in WI and MN. Safeguard is the majority of my business. Not sure where you are going with this.

Dan


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## Racerx (Aug 29, 2012)

MKT said:


> All the hack work is getting out of control. I have basically been forced back into mid Wisconsin regions and already do not enjoy what I am seeing.
> 
> I recently came across repairs made to a main sewer line in house.Seeing how the work was done is a major concern & shows how RECKLESS people are becoming so that they can get a quick and maximized profit with no concern other than " turning a profit". Your right no one can compete with your practices -your prices are the lowest - but they are so far out of anything that is reasonable that no one in their right minds would take on the risk to perform work in such a manner.
> 
> ...


This is 100% correct ,as a licensed General Contractor in Wisconsin I *Am not able to pull plumbing and electrical permits ,*These are completly specialized trades that require a completly different series of credentialing.....


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## JenkinsHB (Apr 11, 2012)

wow. didn't realize there were so many WI contractors on here.


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## MKT (May 7, 2014)

newreo said:


> That might be news but generals don't want to do p&p I don't know what you trying to prove? Do you think builders work for sg in wi or any plumbers for that matter? They get what they pay for period. If you work for these prices good for you, I know few people that left area for many reasons that were more than qualified. So you take their place or being forced, you know why? no one wants it



For clarification purposes

I'm not trying to prove anything, I usually don't say much about what I see unless it causes concern for the health and safety of the surrounding community, other contractors, or myself.

Not a safeguard situation.

A smarter approach to the situation would have been capping off the main sewer line.

The reason this has been brought up is I would like to see some changes to the practices in areas that I am in. Strictly on my concern for the safety of those who will be put in harms way. Hey the right people could read this and find it a reason to make the change.

I am aware of why I am in the area this is my situation, by force technically is not the situation, but for my circumstances based on my decisions that's how I have been looking at it. What I accept for pay is strictly my information not here to brag about lawnmowers & trailers.

As far as general's & plumbers. People really need to think for themselves - who stands to pick up the liability for not pulling permits? Have you never hired out a plumber or other trade?


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## Racerx (Aug 29, 2012)

MKT said:


> For clarification purposes
> 
> I'm not trying to prove anything, I usually don't say much about what I see unless it causes concern for the health and safety of the surrounding community, other contractors, or myself.
> 
> ...


Don't do it.....plain and simple...not directed at anyone in particular but everyone just the same,take a second pull back from the keyboard and take stock of your surroundings,look around at your, kids ,wife- husband,house , truck ...etc.would you give that up for some cubical monkey that won't squeeze out an extra 25.00 for a permit???....pffft ..NEXT!!!..Now serving #32!!!:yawn:


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Racerx said:


> This is 100% correct ,as a licensed General Contractor in Wisconsin I *Am not able to pull plumbing and electrical permits ,*These are completly specialized trades that require a completly different series of credentialing.....


Racer,

Have you tried to pull permits on behalf of your plumber or electrician? I have and continue to do it. I have copies of my plumbers and electricians certification cards on file. I turn in copies when I pull the general permits. However, I can't call for the inspections. They must call for those so the building inspector knows they completed the work under the permit.

You can not pull the permit and do the work though.

Although what do I know, I have a good relationship with the building inspection department around here so maybe they are bending the rules for me.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

MKT said:


> The myth that building permits are not required in Wisconsin.
> 
> Building permits are not required in the State of Wisconsin for those who are "Owner Occupants of the Dwelling". In this situation you do not need dwelling contractor certifications. For all houses that are not owner occupied / and work is not being completed by the owner, Building Permits Are Required.


This is not totally correct. "Owner Occupants of the dwelling" *can* pull permits and must do so. Try building a deck, house, addition, kitchen remodel, etc. without one. However, the "Owner Occupant" is not required to have a dwelling contractor certification.

The "occupant" is a key term as well. Landlords can not pull permits on their rentals. They must either possess the dwelling contractor certifications, or they must hire a licensed contractor. Year's ago I learned this lesson the hard way on one of my rentals :yes:


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

I've pulled permits for years on Trades but like Brad said I can't order finals. New twist here that was informed of but haven't tried out yet: Government backed loans supposedly you don't need to pull permits nor do you need to pay State Sales tax on. I did call my State Tax Dept and they verified no State Tax on Government homes BUT haven't needed to pull any permits yet.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

MKT said:


> All the hack work is getting out of control. I have basically been forced back into mid Wisconsin regions and already do not enjoy what I am seeing.
> 
> I recently came across repairs made to a main sewer line in house.Seeing how the work was done is a major concern & shows how RECKLESS people are becoming so that they can get a quick and maximized profit with no concern other than " turning a profit". Your right no one can compete with your practices -your prices are the lowest - but they are so far out of anything that is reasonable that no one in their right minds would take on the risk to perform work in such a manner.
> 
> ...


Pics would be helpful. Fernco's are allowed here in most situations. May be a local thing for you though. I deal with VERY few codes here and virtually no inspections. It's a good idea to use a shielded no hub on Horizontal lines of course but my 20 yr master plumber says the standard fernco is allowable. It's also recommended to support each side of the joint. I lost count of how many rubber Fernco's i installed in underground hookups, The most popular was 6" clay to 4" pvc on 100 year old homes where the tree roots invaded the clay pipe. Catch it at the footing and run new 4" to the street.


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## MKT (May 7, 2014)

Going in a different direction then I anticipated.


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

MKT said:


> Going in a different direction then I anticipated but they are attached.



Yeah, the couplers would most likely pass muster here but the 1 1/2 hooking around the back side of the 4" wouldn't! Also can't figure out why the other 1 1/2 is run all the way to the floor. Should just tap into the 4" drop! Honestly the vertical one should be re-done to where it goes out the wall. Should run over away from the wall and drop through a long sweep coming from the top not the side. A close 90 El on a sewer pipe wouldn't fly here. Turds have a hard time making the turn when running horizontal. Can't tell what goes out the wall but it looks like options are limited there......


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## MKT (May 7, 2014)

mtmtnman said:


> Yeah, the couplers would most likely pass muster here but the 1 1/2 hooking around the back side of the 4" wouldn't! Also can't figure out why the other 1 1/2 is run all the way to the floor. Should just tap into the 4" drop! Honestly the vertical one should be re-done to where it goes out the wall. Should run over away from the wall and drop through a long sweep coming from the top not the side. A close 90 El on a sewer pipe wouldn't fly here. Turds have a hard time making the turn when running horizontal. Can't tell what goes out the wall but it looks like options are limited there......



Yeah whom ever plumbed it must have missed the most important class where you learn that [email protected] flows down hill & payday is on friday.

As far as the couplings I have never seen them used this way before.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*A NoHub or shielded coupling should be used*



As far as the couplings I have never seen them used this way before. QUOTE said:


> But not really a huge deal on the branch lines.


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## MKT (May 7, 2014)

Main point I was trying to get across with the thread was building permits / building codes. Basically the pictures are irrelevant.

Does this look like a system that was approved by an inspector, or installed by a plumber? It causes me issues as I have to document conditions, the more that is present the more time I have to spend working.

I highly doubt this system would pass an inspection in Wisconsin, like I said I have never seen anything of this nature in any of the state I have worked in.

But I am really not trying to get caught up in debating the actual installation. I am trying to get people to realize the simple fact of licensing / building permits / plumber certifications. They are important....

Can remit back to my first post for plumbing certification requirements in Wisconsin.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

MKT said:


> Main point I was trying to get across with the thread was building permits / building codes. Basically the pictures are irrelevant.
> 
> Does this look like a system that was approved by an inspector, or installed by a plumber? It causes me issues as I have to document conditions, the more that is present the more time I have to spend working.
> 
> ...


I am still trying to see what you trying to deliver. 
A) Most generals already know all of that 
B) they don't work in P&P industry 
C) Whoever did this work care less and more likely have no licensing therefore have nothing to lose


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## MKT (May 7, 2014)

newreo said:


> I am still trying to see what you trying to deliver.
> A) Most generals already know all of that
> B) they don't work in P&P industry
> C) Whoever did this work care less and more likely have no licensing therefore have nothing to lose


newreo, direct response's for you

A - You may know it all, but you would be shocked at how many people lack common information. Few years back I was asked by A VERY LARGE general to complete work without permits, I simply explained to them that I would not. They insisted that permits were not necessary. Needless to say I did not complete the work.

B - Technically speaking I am a general, & technically speaking you either must be a general, or a sub in P&P. Otherwise you are not meeting licensing requirements.

C - I disagree, I think they might care. I think there is a good possibility some people have been so swept up in the P&P field / routine / busywork that they have just failed to understand the full concept of what they are doing.

A big reason for this is because WI Dwelling Contractor Laws changed a few years back. I can tell you for a fact that some are under the impression that permits / licenses are not required.


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## MKT (May 7, 2014)

*Just 1 more thing to add*

It's beyond me why this would happen, but some of the Wisconi folk may not even be holding any dwelling contractor certs.

So just adding some additional info & links to help those help themselves

http://dsps.wi.gov/Licenses-Permits/Credentialing/Trades-Professions

http://dsps.wi.gov/Documents/Credentialing Forms/Trades Application Forms/Dcq.pdf

http://www.dsps.wi.gov/Documents/Credentialing Forms/Trades Application Forms/Dc.pdf

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/co...and_buildings_and_environment/320_325/320.pdf

https://app.wi.gov/licensesearch

*(20)*  "Dwelling contractor" means any person, firm or corporation engaged in the business of performing construction or erosion control work on a one- or 2- family dwelling. 
*Note:* Pursuant to s. 101.654 (1) (b), Stats., "dwelling contractor" does not include an owner of a dwelling who resides or will reside in the dwelling. 

"Negligence" means the failure to exercise the degree of care and judgment to protect public health and safety normally expected of an individual performing activities within the scope of a license, certification or registration category.


*When do I need to get a building permit in Wisconsin?

* 
Generally, in Wisconsin you will need to get a permit to build all new structures, remodel or renovate an existing building, and for electrical, plumbing, and mechanical work. Structures include commercial buildings, houses, sheds, decks, fences, patios, pools, and garages. In sum, you will need a permit for almost all construction projects in Wisconsin. If a permit is required, you will need to apply for and receive your permit before any work starts. Not doing so can subject you to fines and double the cost of the building permit fees.


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## AceVentura (Sep 6, 2015)

Pince Preservation in Central Wisconsin

I have seen you doing work in Wisconsin without building permits - New London Wisconsin, 

I know you were at this house in Chippewa Falls --

You ever pull building permits on anything?

Is it you who was destroying those roofs tarping them improperly?

My life has really been ****ty for well over a year now.

You sent me your price sheet, in the summer of 2014 - biggest fn joke I have ever seen.

Sick of the retaliatory **** in Wisconsin - Still ongoing, for what - **** like I wrote here... WHo da f started it against me? That's my question 

Maybe Dorpat, Maybe Pince, Maybe Homestar - No Fn Idea but im pissed.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

Maybe things are a little different in WI, or this post is specifically meant towards a certain person or company, but not every plumbing repair requires a plumbing permit. Knowing local codes is important to make sure the job is done correctly, but at the same time not every permit is actually required. When I redid my kitchen, I was told that a permit was required. I told my township that I was only replacing cabinets and that the plumbing and electrical would remain unchanged. They told me I needed to pull a permit and write like for like on it. It's a load of bs, they just wanted my money, cosmetic changes do not require permits. At least not here.


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## AceVentura (Sep 6, 2015)

madxtreme01 said:


> Maybe things are a little different in WI, or this post is specifically meant towards a certain person or company, but not every plumbing repair requires a plumbing permit. Knowing local codes is important to make sure the job is done correctly, but at the same time not every permit is actually required. When I redid my kitchen, I was told that a permit was required. I told my township that I was only replacing cabinets and that the plumbing and electrical would remain unchanged. They told me I needed to pull a permit and write like for like on it. It's a load of bs, they just wanted my money, cosmetic changes do not require permits. At least not here.


Why don't you call up the city and let them now, maybe they will help you tear the kitchen out so you can do it correctly.


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## All Island Handy (Dec 12, 2012)

MKT said:


> All the hack work is getting out of control. I have basically been forced back into mid Wisconsin regions and already do not enjoy what I am seeing.
> 
> I recently came across repairs made to a main sewer line in house.Seeing how the work was done is a major concern & shows how RECKLESS people are becoming so that they can get a quick and maximized profit with no concern other than " turning a profit". Your right no one can compete with your practices -your prices are the lowest - but they are so far out of anything that is reasonable that no one in their right minds would take on the risk to perform work in such a manner.
> 
> ...


Im not sure about WI but before i came home to WA i was living in Nashville TN where i was a licensed "MASTER PLUMBER" and regular rubber fernco's were perfectly acceptable for any repair


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## JenkinsHB (Apr 11, 2012)

AceVentura said:


> Pince Preservation in Central Wisconsin
> 
> I have seen you doing work in Wisconsin without building permits - New London Wisconsin,
> 
> ...


http://www.pinceproperty.com/

Are you saying these guys are doing the crap work? I'm a little lost on your post.


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## AceVentura (Sep 6, 2015)

JenkinsHB said:


> http://www.pinceproperty.com/
> 
> Are you saying these guys are doing the crap work? I'm a little lost on your post.


Here is what I do know.

I stopped getting paid when I was in central Wisconsin, I was reporting mortgagee neglect left and right.

A common name on the sign in sheets was pince preservation / p3

I have seen pince preservation with the p3 van installing without building permits.

I am sure there are plenty in central Wisconsin doing the crap work, the problem I have is that the crap work them among others have done, and my reporting of this information has now cost me an uncountable amount of money,

I cant determine how all these people are connected, but there are a lot of similarities...


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## sharoncynthia (Feb 24, 2020)

I have gone through the post but doesn't find the ways to do sewer pipe cleaning, is there anyone who can suggest me some ideas of doing it properly.


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## MatthewRoddick (Mar 16, 2020)

Contact plumbers charleston, they will guide you the proper ways for sewer relining. Their experienced staff will help you in doing that thing properly and professionally.


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## BaldwinCaleb (Apr 1, 2020)

Great information shared !


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