# Bid after the fact(well fargo)



## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

got my first adjusted invoice and knew I shouldn`t have done job like this. They are saying photos don`t justify and per cost estimator crap!

My biggest problem with the cost estimator is how do they know my costs of doing business? Are they just pulling number out of the air to put in the estimator?

All I can say is they will get a bid and approve it before any work gets done in the future!:furious::furious:


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

*re*

The cost estimator is a joke, it seems like half the time I'm thinking "there is no way I'm doing this job for xx" and the other half I'm laughing all the way to the bank.


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

I had 2 regionals that said they will not give me anymore work (blessing). The reason is I will not do BATF, I told them either give the approval in writing or I am not doing it. To many chances of having it cut.


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## bcollins (Apr 21, 2013)

Have ran into same issue , I have never done a job and batf because theres always going to be a problem. Regional I was working for used the estimator my numbers never got close to theres so after turning jobs down several times for not being enough profit they quit giving me work. I pretty much am just doing grass cuts now I don't think I will do any more clean outs or winterizations any more the money that all want to pay is way to low regaurdless if its national or regional . Hope I can totally be out of the p&p side by the end of this year , hard to believe how far things have went down hill since we started don't see how many mom and pop shops will last


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Above is a typical scenario- 
Contractor assigned the trashout made a burn pile and left that mess. Another contractor shows up for the initial mow and calls it in. He batf at 5 cyds. Invoice is cut to 1 cyd then bumped to 2cyd as good will because the contractor should have put everything inside the white container then calculated. Nevermind the backcharge nonesense. That's another thread.

Neither total is acceptable to me an here is why-
A. Most mowing contractors will have a trailer full of equipment and will not be able to transport debris of that volume. Requires a return trip to site.
B. That amount of debris won't cover landfill fees, let alone labor.

Contractor B should have a minimum fee they charge for debris, ie $350, $500, etc, to cya. If you can't make your money on it, you shouldn't be doing it. If your client won't pay it, you shouldn't do work for them.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

This has NFR written all over it!:whistling2:

My thoughts on this are that it sucks for sure. However we just let a client go that had us driving out and bidding a million times and when we finally did get the work it was for less profitable due to all of the trips. There is no good way but the BATF is a better system than visiting the property 20 times for one bid approval.

What I hate is getting to a property and not being prepared to say tow a tractor or remove a mobile home. Yesterday we removed a 2003 chevy tahoe. Nice truck but I was in Vandalia, IL and had a trailer full so I had to call a local tow company. That cost me several hundred bucks or more if the vehicle ran.

I figure we are going to lose 15-20% every year in no pays and chargebacks. I just add these to that list.


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

brm1109 said:


> I had 2 regionals that said they will not give me anymore work (blessing). The reason is I will not do BATF, I told them either give the approval in writing or I am not doing it. To many chances of having it cut.


 
I've completed BATF WO's for WF almost every day for the last 2 years and can only remember 1 payment that was reduced and it was for lack of documentation.

However, in the same time period I have had more invoices cut than I could possibly recall without searching through the books on "Estimate Approval" orders.

Based solely on actual experience, I trust being paid what I bid on a BATF for WF far more than I trust getting paid what I bid on an "Estimate Approval" order for them.

Maybe the difference is I do not work for greedy regional companies (which is all of them).


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I have no issue with Wells Fargo.

I no longer do any BATF for 99% of the nationals or regionals.

I will do them for almost all brokers I have had previous dealings with.

There is one female broker in an area we cover that calls me for rehab bids approx twice per month. We are obviously her 2nd bid as we haven't received an approval from her in over two years. It isn't that we are overpriced; I just don't do kickbacks and thus, we don't care for eachother. So, I'm working on a polite way to tell her to stop wasting my time. Hmm, that didn't seem so rude.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> I have no issue with Wells Fargo.
> 
> I no longer do any BATF for 99% of the nationals or regionals.
> 
> ...


I have a simple rule. After 10 bids with no work I have a chat with them to find out what they do not like about my bids so I can fine tune them. After 20 bids with no work I stop bidding and tell them why.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

10-20-2x per month bids wth??

5 bids and no approvals it's a $200 per bid fee refundable upon each bid approval.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

A lot depends on the customer. If I am trying to woo a new customer that has favorite contractors I will work for it. If I figure out I am being used as a bidding service I will talk with them and give them the I better get work soon or I am off to greener pastures speech. 

The circumstances drive the decision as to when I quit bidding. If I am bidding the same work to more than one customer and one of them is someone I get work from it only takes a few minutes to send the same bid to multiple people.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> 10-20-2x per month bids wth??
> 
> 5 bids and no approvals it's a $200 per bid fee refundable upon each bid approval.


We charge $75.00 for bids on the construction side now. We lose alot of work because we don't offer free estimates. Oh well I save money and time not chasing tire kickers.

Realtors we have only lost one or two jobs. Maybe our pricing needs to go up?


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*The refundable bid has always worked for me.*



Wannabe said:


> 10-20-2x per month bids wth??
> 
> 5 bids and no approvals it's a $200 per bid fee refundable upon each bid approval.


I have not had the opportunity to try it in P&P work, but I'm sure it will happen sooner or later. 

When I did a lot of roofing, I even did refundable repairs, credited towards a new roof.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> 10-20-2x per month bids wth??


LOL, we write a lot of bids, a lot, to homeowners, brokers, banks, investors, other GCs, etc. Everything from pouring a sidewalk, pruning the bushes, debris, to knocking a house down and building one back up again. I do not waste time with detailed bids for Nationals. It's a C note when I have to write according to a client's guidelines/language and on their forms. Many of my posts here are from 3-6 a.m. while I am making numbers. I think billing this woman mentioned earlierr is a pretty simple and effective response from here on out.


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## npm (Nov 14, 2012)

We usually provide free bids for majority of homeowners. If the customers demands or requests become excessive I stop and warn that I have to charge with the price refundable upon approval. 

With preservation clients if the property has excessive damages I only provide eyeball estimates stated that detailed bids can be provided with clients request of what they want addressed.


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

Well i guess im the odd man out here, because i dont charge for bids, just a basic trip charge is all i ask for.

Mainly due to the fact that i get about 75% back, for me its a volume game.


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