# Coverups



## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Found this today on a mold job we are correcting for a large Gov Agency. P&P company did their little paint and cover job. Neighbor came over and informed us 320,000ga of water went through this home (verified with City Water Dept) and showed us where the breaks "were located". Couldn't tell since new drywall was installed over the breaks and the prior "contractor" put popcorn texture on the ceilings and the walls in an attempt to cover the problem up... Did a great job of covering it! 

Unfortunately all the broken pipes were capped off (not fixed) and drywalled over :whistling2:

Pic is of 1 of the capping jobs and some of the "missed" black stuff....


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Yikes.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Nothing to see here:whistling2:.......Move on......

Can you say chargeback or EO hit :yes::yes::yes:


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

The nationals don't care. In fact they encourage coverups.....


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*hi*

i once was told as long as your getting paid dont worry if you think its right or wrong,just do it.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I recall some 400k+ homes in the Chicago area that had sat so long unattended that there were holes in roofs and fuzzy mold from basement to 2nd floor ceiling fans, and yet neighbors would jump on anyone who pulled into the drive to find out if and when the property would be going up for sale. I just talked yesterday to a broker who has a listing about 40 miles south of St Louis in a gated community. The property just had 63K worth of mold remediation completed in late November, and he can't even get anyone to drive by. The house is stigmatized, and personally, if I was writing a check for a half million house to put my kids in, and knowing some of the shoddy work that is being done, I wouldn't want anything to do with it either.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

There are still crews going into mold jobs with no suits, no respirators, no air handlers or hepa vacs, etc. Just bristle brooms, bleach and a drywall knife. And there are still companies contracting that kind of work.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> The nationals don't care. In fact they encourage coverups.....



It's supposed to be preventive maintenance.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> There are still crews going into mold jobs with no suits, no respirators, no air handlers or hepa vacs, etc. Just bristle brooms, bleach and a drywall knife. And there are still companies contracting that kind of work.



Exactly. That's our competition.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

mtmtnman said:


> The nationals don't care. In fact they encourage coverups.....


A new 1st for me :thumbsup:

The Gov Agency has turned a claim into the Ins carrier for the P&P Company that completed the work. I get to meet them Friday a.m. 

This is going to be fun :thumbup:

MTMTNMAN: YOU know this company real real good...BPWY does too


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> A new 1st for me :thumbsup:
> 
> The Gov Agency has turned a claim into the Ins carrier for the P&P Company that completed the work. I get to meet them Friday a.m.
> 
> ...


Keep us all posted on this. :drink: I'm always interested in your sage advice. 

FOR YOU NEWBIES HERE, someone is going to take a first class screwing on this. Next time you get a "bleach and kilz" work order, remember this thread.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> A new 1st for me :thumbsup:
> 
> The Gov Agency has turned a claim into the Ins carrier for the P&P Company that completed the work. I get to meet them Friday a.m.
> 
> ...




Hmmm, is that why you called tonight?

Sorry I missed the call, will call you tomorrow.


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## Zuse (Nov 17, 2012)

Stop with all the suspense... tell us the name.


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## Molly77 (Feb 10, 2014)

So, who are you saying is responsible? The company that probably gave an order to do the work ( cover up/prevention..) or the contractor who did it?


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Molly77 said:


> So, who are you saying is responsible? The company that probably gave an order to do the work ( cover up/prevention..) or the contractor who did it?



The contractor who did the work is responsible.


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## Molly77 (Feb 10, 2014)

thanohano44 said:


> The contractor who did the work is responsible.


Ok...please don't flame me...or be rude. I just want to have a conversation..
This particular case seems extreme, but why is it the contractors fault. If the contractor sent in photos and documented all the damage, possibly gave bids to fix it correctly...and the company gave the orders to only treat with bleach and kilz to prevent further mold....why is the contractor held liable? If' they were only following orders ....they are the ones making the decisions on what and how they want things done. I'm sure we have all been at many many jobs or we have thought to ourselves.. Hey if I was going to buy this house I would want it done this way.... But we don't always get paid to do things the best' way. Let's face it... They want to do as little as possible, we are getting paid to do the bare minimum. At THEIR discretion.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Hi Molly,

This type of work is not extreme. It is more common than you think.

I didn't read that the contractor documented any damage; all that is known here is that broken plumbing and mold are covered up.

The contractor is held liable because 
They completed the work
They should know better
Last person is "it"

This isn't a matter of doing things the best way, rather the correct way.
I know this may also sound extreme, but just following orders didn't work for those guards at auschwitz either. If they didn't realize they were covering up busted pipes then they had no business on site, and if they did know, then they willing participated in negligent and deceitful practices. 
This is what the additional insured certificate does for the national. It allows them to get paid for this job while the guy that did it gets sued.

What should have happened was an all inclusive bid submitted. When the national told them "No, just bleach and kilz for $2 linear ft" they should have declined. In many cases like this, the contractor just shrugs his shoulders and figures if he doesn't do it, someone else will.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Unfortunately Molly, GTX is correct.

This is a prime example of "Just doing what I was told" will place the blame on the company/contractor that did the work. 

There is currently an insurance thread going on. Wannabe was discussing "claims made" versus and "occurrence" policy. He was also talking about trailing coverage. As GTX pointed out, "additionally insured" can come into play. When a company like SG gives you 3 places to buy your insurance from, why do you think that is? To cover you? Wrong answer, it is because they know those policies are what they need to cover themselves.

Not only did they cover up the mold and plumbing damage, but they also "touched" it. Notice the caps that poorly soldered on the supply lines to the mixer valve. I can tell you this wasn't done by a plumber because no plumber leaves a solder joint that looks like that. So, what we have here, is someone "touched" the plumbing system and mold is now present. But I hear you say, "No the mold was there first". Fair argument, but you will lose. Remember, the bleach and Kilz got rid of the mold. Your insufficient plumbing repair must have leaked when someone tried to do a dewint causing the mold to grow back. All of that is most likely a moot point as you aren't a plumber in the first place. If memory serves, Iowa requires a licensed plumber to even do a wint. How many of us can get a plumber to come do a wint for $60? 

The deck is stacked against the P&P contractor. Each day that a new memo or requirement comes out, it only gets worse........


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

Exactly GTX, "just following orders" didn't get the Nazi minions out of hock. 
Neither will it get the P&P contractor off the hook.


Molly this is why the industry vets are so against all the fly by night newbies getting into the industry. 
Sure cutting grass and hauling out the trash isn't rocket science but so much more of the work they are asking the P&P vendor to do IS NOT a job that FNGs should be touching. 
Prime example is in this thread.

Another bad point to the industry is the clueless FNGs on how to run a business and proper business profits to sustain a business is that they've 
allowed the companies to depress the rates well below what most viable business concerns are able to operate at.
And then you have shoddy work as a result of trying to cut maximum corners in order to stay afloat just one more day.


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## ctquietcorner (Jun 29, 2013)

We won't touch a mold job if our lives depended on it. 5 brothers tried to bully us into bleach cleaning and kilz painting a 10 x10 room that had the nice black mold. 

Yes we had reported it, but we put in the PCR that mold was out of scope of work as we are mold remediators, explained the severity of the mold in question and noted that it had to be done by a professional. They didn't give two craps about it. They wanted the mold washed and painted over and if we didn't do it we would be backcharged once another contractor performed the work

I was fit to be tied and my husband said to take care of it. So I call the mortage company that was on work order and spoke with head of management about how they wanted us to "cover-up" the mold and low and behold 5 brothers ended up no longer servicing their properties.


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*Hi*

Hence why companies want you to take all the responsibility,sign crazy contracts a lot will never understand,so their not held liable like a guy said once if i told you go jump off a bridge would you do it.....you can say no or refuse work order.


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*Hi*

would this company be out of texas by any chance because i know 1 that did a lot with scrub and killz paint it method


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## Molly77 (Feb 10, 2014)

david said:


> would this company be out of texas by any chance because i know 1 that did a lot with scrub and killz paint it method


So.....you jumped off the bridge you were referring me to???:whistling2:


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

*hi*

yes molly i can admit in the beginning i was guilty,does that make your day


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## Molly77 (Feb 10, 2014)

david said:


> yes molly i can admit in the beginning i was guilty,does that make your day


It's not a matter of making my day... It's the matter of proving a point. Everyone starts somewhere, everyone makes mistakes and hopefully learns from them.
I have spent many hours combing thru old post and looking up different topics so hopefully I can learn from others. I appreciate advice, warnings, and hands on experience from others. Then it is up to me to decipher what I can heed as ' good advice..
Nobody likes to feel like they are being talked down to..
If you had said in your post..yes I use to do that too and I learned you can say no or refuse an order....instead of asking me if I would jump off a bridge.....
I probably would of taken it better.
#peoplewholiveinglasshouses


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## david (Apr 11, 2012)

my post was'nt directed to you my friend,matter of speech im sure most of us are guilty at 1 point and hopefully you do learn from us veterans in the field.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Molly I appreciate you asking honest questions--it is how everyone learns!

David, That "jump off a bridge" is a favorite saying here that us "older" fellas/gals knew no harm was meant.

To answer a question earlier: I dont know who the National is but I do know the regional. I think this regional handles 8-10 States. I shouldnt name them since there is a good possibility they watch this forum  It "may" not even be the regionals fault since they DO rely on the crews for good info....


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## Molly77 (Feb 10, 2014)

Wannabe said:


> Molly I appreciate you asking honest questions--it is how everyone learns!
> 
> David, That "jump off a bridge" is a favorite saying here that us "older" fellas/gals knew no harm was meant.
> 
> To answer a question earlier: I dont know who the National is but I do know the regional. I think this regional handles 8-10 States. I shouldnt name them since there is a good possibility they watch this forum  It "may" not even be the regionals fault since they DO rely on the crews for good info....


I wasn't that offended... Lol
I'm sure we have all heard and even used the term, I guess it was more of a throwing stones from your glass house..
And... It depends how high the bridge was, how deep the water, and how much they were going to pay me to do it!!!!:yes:


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Lol... but if you do throw rocks in that glass house I can refer a good contractor for cleaning up the mess  haha


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## Field Audit Services LLC (Mar 24, 2013)

Rocks thrown in glass houses? No problem! Use the new see thru boarding! Throw those rocks all you want now! :icon_rolleyes::thumbsup:


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

It's a regional from the dead center of the country no names mentioned. They tried to get me and many others to do coverups like this. It's one of the MANY reasons i cut ties with them. I thought they might be out of business already as SG has been taking over the P&P world and landed one of their LARGE clients........


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> A new 1st for me :thumbsup:
> 
> The Gov Agency has turned a claim into the Ins carrier for the P&P Company that completed the work. I get to meet them Friday a.m.
> 
> ...


So how'd the Friday morning meeting go???


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

It was a blast. "there was no intent to cover up" I took a putty knife and a spray bottle and scraped off the "new" popcorn and thats all it took... Hope someone tells me the results. 

Afterwards the adjuster asked if I would "look" at another property so we left and looked at 1 of the worst properties I have seen in years! Discussed scope of needed work. I'll post some pics when I download on laptop.


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