# I need a good laugh...



## Cocky Rocky (Jul 10, 2013)

So I've been reading a lot of negative comments about "cost calculators" here recently. Anybody have a link or able to post something here that isn't proprietary or get ya in trouble over? I haven't done PP in awhile, and I'm definitely NOT thinking of getting back into it, I'm just very curious how much services are paying vs. what I made a few years ago after being run through a "cost calculator". Honestly, it sounds like a scam to me to low ball everything that is ran through it. That, and I could use a good laugh.


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

*re*

We had a gutter job over the winter. We originally bid it at like $250 and really were not making any money at that. They sent it back approved for $110 and said that is what their computer said the job was worth. My partner got pissed and sent them back an invoice for what the parts would cost $130, and they still stuck with $110


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

nurumkin said:


> We had a gutter job over the winter. We originally bid it at like $250 and really were not making any money at that. They sent it back approved for $110 and said that is what their computer said the job was worth. My partner got pissed and sent them back an invoice for what the parts would cost $130, and they still stuck with $110


I ran in to same thing with covering a pool (2`s and mesh,ect)! I bid $1200 they came back with $900 plus there discount! I said no thanks after paying everything including your discount I would be making $29! I asked them to resign as it was not my bid anymore! They did then three weeks later came back with my price approved! I guess they couldn`t find anyone else willing to work for nothing!


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## nurumkin (Sep 28, 2012)

STARBABY said:


> I ran in to same thing with covering a pool (2`s and mesh,ect)! I bid $1200 they came back with $900 plus there discount! I said no thanks after paying everything including your discount I would be making $29! I asked them to resign as it was not my bid anymore! They did then three weeks later came back with my price approved! I guess they couldn`t find anyone else willing to work for nothing!


We tried to blow them off, but they just kept coming back over and over with the same bid. Finally after like the 4th time my partner just did it when he was in the area to get them to leave us alone.


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## Cocky Rocky (Jul 10, 2013)

I did a trash out on a property which also had a pool. They said they needed a bid to cover the pool also because the original sub way underbid it and bailed. Since I borrowed my dads truck and my brother-in-law's trailer to trash out, I wasn't about to do the borrowing thing again so I declined the job. They kept pestering me, said they couldn't find anyone else to do it so I agreed to submit a bid. So I called a pool company who wanted to do a complete restoration since the pool was trashed, and they refused to "just cover it to HUD specs". Since the pro's said it was trashed and the liner was lifting, I submitted a bid to remove the pool. The bid was like $12K for an excavation co. to drain it, dig it up and dispose of it (I would've also netted like $2K off it, he he...) After we went rounds about that for awhile, I realized they wanted to JUST COVER THE POOL AND NOTHING MORE. So I called a GC to take a look and give me a price. I gave him all the specs from HUD as to how it needed to be done. So he takes time out of his day to drive to the property, get measurements, price materials etc etc.It takes the GC a few days to do all this and in the meantime the "order mill" (reg? nat? I donno... doesn't really matter) pesters me to no end calling, email, call some more to the point I told them "I declined this job from the get go and you pestered me until I accepted it. Now your pestering me endlessly, wasting my time, and you know I am waiting on a bid from a GC. GC operate in the real world, not in your fantasy land of things magically get done just because you dropped the ball or went with a low bid. Lack of planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on MY part! When I hear from the GC with a bid you'll be the first to know!" Was I rude? Yes. Was I frank? Yes. Did it feel reeeeeeeeally good to put a harsh dose of reality on these ? Hell, yes! So the "supervisor" calls me back a few hours later to tell me the job was cancelled and stop all work immediately. Basically, I'm off the job. Hey, no sweat off my . I wasn't looking forward to calling the GC back to tell him "forget it, the job was cancelled" but I did, and I also offered up the companies phone number, just in case he was jacked he could call them himself and vent. But he was cool about it and said "these things happen" sorta attitude, because I told him exactly what was going on to begin with. And by the way, I haven't heard back from that order mill since then. Go figure...


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## Cocky Rocky (Jul 10, 2013)

nurumkin said:


> We had a gutter job over the winter. We originally bid it at like $250 and really were not making any money at that. They sent it back approved for $110 and said that is what their computer said the job was worth. My partner got pissed and sent them back an invoice for what the parts would cost $130, and they still stuck with $110


 These ers don't value our time one iota. My favorite line is "We can't pay you that much, but can't you get it when you're in the area doing something else?" Hate is a strong word, but I really do hate these ers.


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Cocky Rocky said:


> These ers don't value our time one iota. My favorite line is "We can't pay you that much, but can't you get it when you're in the area doing something else?" Hate is a strong word, but I really do hate these ers.


I get this all the time on lawns out of area! they think they will only have to pay more for first property and then less for any other! Not happen!


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

nurumkin said:


> We tried to blow them off, but they just kept coming back over and over with the same bid. Finally after like the 4th time my partner just did it when he was in the area to get them to leave us alone.


You set a precedence by doing this and now they know all they have to do is bug you into submission...
When you tell someone no stick to your guns...

I'm getting ready to put a video together on "Making Company Policy"
part of our Business 101 series...


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

I'm getting the same run around. A little advise. Treat each out of town job stand on it's own. I will be as I've learned my lesson because I didn't disconnect the feed line on the pump I won't be paid.....UNLESS I drive 178 miles to do so. YES, I shut off the circuit at the panel, YES, I zip tied the valve shut, YES, I turned off the switch and taped off at the pump...


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

I've been asked a couple times by members about this subject..."Cost calculators" If I may...what the sam dickens is a cost calculator????
Are you guys bidding...trying to come up with a guideline for fees???

The questions I've been asked it sounds like you're attempting to perform a B&E on a service but no one has responded to the messages I returned so I'm a little confused here....

What exactly are you guys calling a "Cost Calculator"???


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

garylaps said:


> I'm getting the same run around. A little advise. Treat each out of town job stand on it's own. I will be as I've learned my lesson because I didn't disconnect the feed line on the pump I won't be paid.....UNLESS I drive 178 miles to do so. YES, I shut off the circuit at the panel, YES, I zip tied the valve shut, YES, I turned off the switch and taped off at the pump...





Making each bid item stand on its own two feet will drive the low level help at the nationals NUTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And telling that if they approve multiple of the small items for one trip the price per item will go down, will also drive them absolutely NUTZ.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

I have a cost calculator I have been using for about 6 years now. I got it at Staples office supply. It is an 8 digit model SPL-230. 

It is spot on with pricing every time. :thumbsup:


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Gypsos said:


> I have a cost calculator I have been using for about 6 years now. I got it at Staples office supply. It is an 8 digit model SPL-230.
> 
> It is spot on with pricing every time. :thumbsup:


mine is a TI-30XA


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## BamaPPC (May 7, 2012)

Cleanupman said:


> I've been asked a couple times by members about this subject..."Cost calculators" If I may...what the sam dickens is a cost calculator????
> Are you guys bidding...trying to come up with a guideline for fees???
> 
> The questions I've been asked it sounds like you're attempting to perform a B&E on a service but no one has responded to the messages I returned so I'm a little confused here....
> ...


The cost calculator is software that you plug the job parameters into and it spits out a number. Job estimator would be another way to describe it.

My "cost calculator" is called a brain, used in conjunction with Casio DF-320TM with solar power back-up. The problem with most job estimating software is there's no place to add in "aggravation factor". And as we all know, aggravation factor could be up to 50% of the total job. :yes:


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

When software starts getting out into the field and doing the work then maybe software can tell me how much it should cost.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Gypsos said:


> When software starts getting out into the field and doing the work then maybe software can tell me how much it should cost.


Has software ever carried a water soaked couch with 2 recliners up out of a wet basement on a tight staircase?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Folks at Safeguard used to always say they pay the same for 100 cyds of feathers as they do for 100 cyds of rock.


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## hammerhead (Apr 26, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Folks at Safeguard used to always say they pay the same for 100 cyds of feathers as they do for 100 cyds of rock.


then why do they only want to pay $2 per bag of leaves??


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> Has software ever carried a water soaked couch with 2 recliners up out of a wet basement on a tight staircase?


The proper application of a sawzall makes this much easier.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

hammerhead said:


> then why do they only want to pay $2 per bag of leaves??


Because they can.....


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

hammerhead said:


> then why do they only want to pay $2 per bag of leaves??


This is a real money maker. Just stop by the grocery store and pick up a couple hundred plastic grocery bags. :thumbsup:


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

nurumkin said:


> We tried to blow them off, but they just kept coming back over and over with the same bid. Finally after like the 4th time my partner just did it when he was in the area to get them to leave us alone.


Weak


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Cocky Rocky said:


> I did a trash out on a property which also had a pool. They said they needed a bid to cover the pool also because the original sub way underbid it and bailed. Since I borrowed my dads truck and my brother-in-law's trailer to trash out, I wasn't about to do the borrowing thing again so I declined the job. They kept pestering me, said they couldn't find anyone else to do it so I agreed to submit a bid. So I called a pool company who wanted to do a complete restoration since the pool was trashed, and they refused to "just cover it to HUD specs". Since the pro's said it was trashed and the liner was lifting, I submitted a bid to remove the pool. The bid was like $12K for an excavation co. to drain it, dig it up and dispose of it (I would've also netted like $2K off it, he he...) After we went rounds about that for awhile, I realized they wanted to JUST COVER THE POOL AND NOTHING MORE. So I called a GC to take a look and give me a price. I gave him all the specs from HUD as to how it needed to be done. So he takes time out of his day to drive to the property, get measurements, price materials etc etc.It takes the GC a few days to do all this and in the meantime the "order mill" (reg? nat? I donno... doesn't really matter) pesters me to no end calling, email, call some more to the point I told them "I declined this job from the get go and you pestered me until I accepted it. Now your pestering me endlessly, wasting my time, and you know I am waiting on a bid from a GC. GC operate in the real world, not in your fantasy land of things magically get done just because you dropped the ball or went with a low bid. Lack of planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on MY part! When I hear from the GC with a bid you'll be the first to know!" Was I rude? Yes. Was I frank? Yes. Did it feel reeeeeeeeally good to put a harsh dose of reality on these ? Hell, yes! So the "supervisor" calls me back a few hours later to tell me the job was cancelled and stop all work immediately. Basically, I'm off the job. Hey, no sweat off my . I wasn't looking forward to calling the GC back to tell him "forget it, the job was cancelled" but I did, and I also offered up the companies phone number, just in case he was jacked he could call them himself and vent. But he was cool about it and said "these things happen" sorta attitude, because I told him exactly what was going on to begin with. And by the way, I haven't heard back from that order mill since then. Go figure...


You did the right thing. Those companies have let the Bs guidelines run their business operation and remove common sense from them not causes them to push the envelope in regards to the employee vs IC issue. Even of they have a dead line, we deal in real time. Look at how the jerked you around because you wouldn't bend to their every whim.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Folks at Safeguard used to always say they pay the same for 100 cyds of feathers as they do for 100 cyds of rock.


You should have told them that's not true. They have to compress those feathers so youre actually moving 400 cyds of feathers for 100 cyds. You can't compress rock. That's their problem.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

> I wasn't looking forward to calling the GC back to tell him "forget it, the job was cancelled" but I did, and I also offered up the companies phone number, just in case he was jacked he could call them himself and vent. But he was cool about it and said "these things happen" sorta attitude, because I told him exactly what was going on to begin with.




And now you know why most contractors WILL NOT bid bank owned properties without a bid fee paid up front.

In the regular contracting world if you bid a job you have some expectations of getting the job as long as you are with in market pricing. Sure, some you win, some you don't.
With bank work all they are looking for is pricing on how badly the property is damaged to turn into the mortgage insurance company etc.
Expectations of getting a bid approval are slim to none.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> You should have told them that's not true. They have to compress those feathers so youre actually moving 400 cyds of feathers for 100 cyds. You can't compress rock. That's their problem.


I believe it depends on the bird. Crows for example have a denser feather than say, a sparrow. Water fowl also differ from land based. I expect if we pressure the nationals enough, they can put the variances into a pdf and 2014 pricing guidelines. Be prepared however, to justify the bird species you will be invoicing for.


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