# trash out



## taylo999 (Dec 10, 2015)

when doing trash outs whats the best way to calculate how many cubic yards total of trash is in the house. The way i do it is use my trailer take pic then unload it and put in dumpster to wear i get the most of my money worth then i can pack the dumpster real good after i take my pic of it in the trailer, must be a easier way of doing it so im not doing the work twice


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## RichR (Sep 22, 2012)

Please tell me your joking......


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)




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## allure9121 (Jan 26, 2014)

I am xxxuking amazed that some people make money in this business


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

allure9121 said:


> I am xxxuking amazed that some people make money in this business



Define make money?


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

unless your using the trailer to transport the debris to a dumpster on site somewhere else you are wasting your time and money. Why not just load your trailer and then dump. Who says you can't load it more than once to show cubic yards.


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## Newbie (Apr 17, 2015)

I just walk through the house counting. Proving cy yds... well, from what I've seen it doesn't matter how much is exactly there. Everyone who looks at the pictures, no matter how you measure it, will come to their own numbers from you to the bank itself.

I'm getting pretty good at it too. Better than I thought I would.

Assuming you can look at clothes tossed around the room like a tornado came through and figure out how many 3x3's are there... I've worked for several regionals now and and they always toss in a good number at the end. I modestly add in that it's +-5 yds but I worked for 1 company (that I asked about here last summer) that looked at about 20 yds of crap and told the bank it was 100. I quit within 5 minutes of my first house because my work ethics and their work ethics were wildly different.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Counting/bidding debris in place is*

the only acceptable way of getting a count, in my opinion. I'm not going to process debris just to get less money because I spent my labor to compact it. The one exception being bagged leaves or lawn debris. The only reason for a picture of loaded debris is verify you hauled it off site, not to get a count.


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## disgusted (Sep 18, 2015)

The only reason for a picture of loaded debris is verify you hauled it off site, not to get a count.[/QUOTE]

One would think truck load / trailer load pics would be just that, verification that you didn't just move the debris from one room to another for the photos. But I have on numerous occasions been forced to defend my cu.yd. billing due to the cube farm reviewer stating loaded debris photos do not justify invoice amount. P&P work seems to be a daily battle for being paid the justified amount for work completed.


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

3X3X3 or 27 cft you choose ! Belive me the cubicle chongos will let you know if you are over.Compressed or loose ? it is up to you to define how much money is to be made, I used to aLwAyS PUSH THE LIMITS. AND WAS NOT DENIED BUT 10% OF THE TIME. Sorry for the caps i am recovering from torn rotator cuff and bicep tear. So dont do them ANY favors and make some money ! Been there done that and GLAD it's in the rearview mirror !


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

taylo999 said:


> when doing trash outs whats the best way to calculate how many cubic yards total of trash is in the house. The way i do it is use my trailer take pic then unload it and put in dumpster to wear i get the most of my money worth then i can pack the dumpster real good after i take my pic of it in the trailer, must be a easier way of doing it so im not doing the work twice





RichR said:


> Please tell me your joking......





allure9121 said:


> I am xxxuking amazed that some people make money in this business


You know, I read this original post before heading to bed last night when it was only a couple of minutes old and I almost posted the exact responses of RichR and Allure9121 but I didn't want to be the mean guy picking on the newbie this time! Glad others see it the way I do and it's not just me.

I mean come on, it's hard helping people when you read stuff like this. OP, I am trying to explain this in the most polite way I can but maybe running a business is not for you? 

Seriously, if the first idea to pop into your head was to load a trailer only to take a picture, then unload everything back into a dumpster, I don't think anyone here can really help you in the long run. 
Doing work twice or inefficient is something a WORKER does, the BOSSES/OWNERS job is to identify that and come up with a solution on his own! Asking a question like this on a public forum is not boss/owner behavior. Sorry but that's the cold hard truth. 

Running a SUCCESSFUL business takes something that NOT everyone has!
You may be a GREAT worker, but being the boss takes a different mindset.

The other problem I see is your client! I assume they require you to PROVE how much you actually removed? I seem to remember reading here about some half-wit regional policy that requires you to actually label your trailer with 1/4 1/2 3/4 full lines or something like that? Here's an idea, 

DON'T WORK FOR CLIENTS WITH RIDICULOUS POLICY'S THAT ARE ONLY IN PLACE TO STEAL MONEY FROM YOU! 

If they accept your bid for X amount of debris then you get paid for X amount, end of story! Stop allowing whoever it is you are working for to cut your invoices after the job is done!

I have never, ever, in 10 years working direct had an invoice cut or even worse, back charge me for missing a photo or any other bs excuse I hear on these boards everyday.

Find clients with better policies, even if you can't find direct work I am sure there are better clients out there. You may get less volume but you will make more money doing less work in the long run!


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## Bigtrucker (Mar 18, 2014)

taylo999 said:


> when doing trash outs whats the best way to calculate how many cubic yards total of trash is in the house. The way i do it is use my trailer take pic then unload it and put in dumpster to wear i get the most of my money worth then i can pack the dumpster real good after i take my pic of it in the trailer, must be a easier way of doing it so im not doing the work twice


30 yard container filled = 30 yards
1/2 filled = 15 yards


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

I have to say that debris removal has been a challenge for my company since day 1. I know I should just bite the bullet and get a dump permit, but I have been foolish and cheap which in turn is costing me more money. A dump permit around here costs $2k to obtain and $600/yr there after with a revolving $500 on account at each dump you plan on using. It also takes a year to be approved. I've been in business since 2010 and haven't taken the plunge yet. So aside from all that, I am unable to just go to the dump with whatever I want so my solution was to do the job twice but it saves me money in the long run. I load my trailer with whatever and it holds just under 20cy full, then I bring it to a site where I keep a 30cy dumpster and I empty it. I do a few jobs like this until it's full and I have it picked up to drop off another one. It's not the best, but I don't have any other options at the moment since if I dropped a small dumpster at every property I would be loosing money.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> I have to say that debris removal has been a challenge for my company since day 1. I know I should just bite the bullet and get a dump permit, but I have been foolish and cheap which in turn is costing me more money. A dump permit around here costs $2k to obtain and $600/yr there after with a revolving $500 on account at each dump you plan on using. It also takes a year to be approved. I've been in business since 2010 and haven't taken the plunge yet. So aside from all that, I am unable to just go to the dump with whatever I want so my solution was to do the job twice but it saves me money in the long run. I load my trailer with whatever and it holds just under 20cy full, then I bring it to a site where I keep a 30cy dumpster and I empty it. I do a few jobs like this until it's full and I have it picked up to drop off another one. It's not the best, but I don't have any other options at the moment since if I dropped a small dumpster at every property I would be loosing money.


Sounds to me like you are trying to make their pricing work instead of shooting them your price and doing what works for you.


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## G 3 (May 3, 2015)

madxtreme01 said:


> I have to say that debris removal has been a challenge for my company since day 1. I know I should just bite the bullet and get a dump permit, but I have been foolish and cheap which in turn is costing me more money. A dump permit around here costs $2k to obtain and $600/yr there after with a revolving $500 on account at each dump you plan on using. It also takes a year to be approved. I've been in business since 2010 and haven't taken the plunge yet. So aside from all that, I am unable to just go to the dump with whatever I want so my solution was to do the job twice but it saves me money in the long run. I load my trailer with whatever and it holds just under 20cy full, then I bring it to a site where I keep a 30cy dumpster and I empty it. I do a few jobs like this until it's full and I have it picked up to drop off another one. It's not the best, but I don't have any other options at the moment since if I dropped a small dumpster at every property I would be loosing money.


Your trashout prices should have the permit cost and fees built into them so this isn't an issue. If you've been doing this since 2010, and didn't put a single dime away to get the necessary permits, cover the yearly fees, and post the $500 at the dump sites, it's completely your own fault for not running your business better. If you won't fix the problem, don't b!+ch about it.


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## Newbie (Apr 17, 2015)

Let's not even mention how the dumpster is 30 or 72 sq yds to begin with. :vs_worry:


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

G 3 said:


> Your trashout prices should have the permit cost and fees built into them so this isn't an issue. If you've been doing this since 2010, and didn't put a single dime away to get the necessary permits, cover the yearly fees, and post the $500 at the dump sites, it's completely your own fault for not running your business better. If you won't fix the problem, don't b!+ch about it.



Couldn't agree with you more, I was just trying to justify to some extent what the op was about. I do this, because at the current moment it's what works. However another reason I never got the permit is because I mainly did P&P for the last 5 years and with that in NJ we are not allowed to remove anything other than raw garbage until the property is about to convey. Recently I started to get into the REO side where every house is a trash out and clean to get it ready to go on the market. So now if I stick to this side, I will go ahead and get the permit, but with the way things are in NJ a dumpster is the only option in the interim. 

As far as setting my own price, dumpsters are expensive and I want to make the most profit possible, so regardless of what my price is, I'd rather pay the $100/ton to dispose of it myself vs the $525 for a 30cy with 3 tons.


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## IPS (May 24, 2015)

Where we are located we purchase a local dump permit for $20. Hand over $20 and receive the permit, that is all. We do have to pay $145 a ton to dispose though. The weight per ton if you rent a container is $110-140 a ton. But they kill you on trucking. So its a tough call when you have a trashout that is 50 miles away...


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## allure9121 (Jan 26, 2014)

IPS what part of NJ can u had over $20 and get a permit then dump?


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

allure9121 said:


> IPS what part of NJ can u had over $20 and get a permit then dump?



I don't think he/she was referring to NJ, but if they were I'd be there in a sec.


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## taylo999 (Dec 10, 2015)

i understand what your saying, but the way it works with this one company they pay a certain amount for trash out up to ex amount of cubic yards anything over that you get say 20 a cubic yard so what i do is put it in trailer take pic and then put in Dumpster so in all realty im getting 70-80 cubic yards in a 40 yard Dumpster by breaking stuff down and compacting it real good witch means it saves me on getting several Dumpster to witch ill loose money on, as far as putting in bids for trash outs ill have to look into that with the company but yes putting in a bid and getting the job ill no exactly how much im working with, but by doing it this way i walk away with sometimes a profit of 1000 or more by not bringing in more dumpsters


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

taylo999 said:


> i understand what your saying, but the way it works with this one company they pay a certain amount for trash out up to ex amount of cubic yards anything over that you get say 20 a cubic yard so what i do is put it in trailer take pic and then put in Dumpster so in all realty im getting 70-80 cubic yards in a 40 yard Dumpster by breaking stuff down and compacting it real good witch means it saves me on getting several Dumpster to witch ill loose money on, as far as putting in bids for trash outs ill have to look into that with the company but yes putting in a bid and getting the job ill no exactly how much im working with, but by doing it this way i walk away with sometimes a profit of 1000 or more by not bringing in more dumpsters


80 cyds doesn't fit in a 40cyd dumpster


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

madxtreme01 said:


> I have to say that debris removal has been a challenge for my company since day 1. I know I should just bite the bullet and get a dump permit, but I have been foolish and cheap which in turn is costing me more money. A dump permit around here costs $2k to obtain and $600/yr there after with a revolving $500 on account at each dump you plan on using. It also takes a year to be approved. I've been in business since 2010 and haven't taken the plunge yet. So aside from all that, I am unable to just go to the dump with whatever I want so my solution was to do the job twice but it saves me money in the long run. I load my trailer with whatever and it holds just under 20cy full, then I bring it to a site where I keep a 30cy dumpster and I empty it. I do a few jobs like this until it's full and I have it picked up to drop off another one. It's not the best, but I don't have any other options at the moment since if I dropped a small dumpster at every property I would be loosing money.


Just a word of advice.In NJ unless you have your DEP license, you are not by law allowed to do cleanouts. Even if you rent a dumpster. I had my A901 permit for 6 years until I got out of the business.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

brm1109 said:


> Just a word of advice.In NJ unless you have your DEP license, you are not by law allowed to do cleanouts. Even if you rent a dumpster. I had my A901 permit for 6 years until I got out of the business.



Not really sure where you are getting your information from but a dep permit only allows you to dump at the dump. If you are cleaning out a property with a dumpster, the dumpster company has the permit, and you are fully legally able to load a dumpster.


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

I got my information from the DEP when I first applied for my permit that took almost 18 months to get. Because I asked "what if I just hire a dumpster, can I just do cleanouts until my permit is approved?" The answer from the investigator was "No, a contractor can hire a dumpster to remove debris that they made. But if you are cleaning out trash or debris made by someone else, then you are a garbage company and need the DEP permit.
This is one of the reasons I used to find contractors without the permits and I used to turn them into the State. I was sick and tired of needing to do everything by the book but then everyone else was just skirting the laws.


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

In case you don't believe me, this is direct from the DEP website.
Their definition of waste generated from another person is any trash left inside the house that the contractor did not create.




INFORMATION FOR COMMERICAL WASTE TRANSPORTERS – A-901 License

*Companies hauling waste generated by another person are required to obtain a license (commonly referred to as an “A-901 License”). * You must file a Disclosure Statement, obtain a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity (CPCN), and file a registration statement with NJDEP and apply for decals. 
A-901 forms and information should be downloaded from the “Unit Resources” link found below or you may contact the Division of Law’s A-901 Unit located in the Office of the Attorney General at (609) 292-6018. 
For Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity inquiries, please contact NJDEP’s Economic Regulation Unit at (609) 984-2080.


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## Southreefpp (Jan 6, 2016)

All this NJ dep talk makes me happy I moved to Florida and started property preservation and not where I grew up in Monmouth county!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

if you rent a dumpster, you are not hauling anything, the hauling company is doing the hauling. You are renting the dumpster from them to fill it. I think either you misunderstood or the person you spoke to misunderstood you. They probably thought you meant if you bring a dumpster to them. If that logic actually applied, then any business would require a permit to dump their own garbage. They would qualify for an exempt permit because they are generating their own waste. Either way NJ sucks because dumpsters are expensive and unless you are getting $75/cy, ordering that dumpster just doesn't pay. 
I currently have a 30cy at my house that cost me $525 including only 3 tons
I am hoping to be able to get the debris from 3 different houses in it to maximize profit. I billed 2 of the 3 at 30cy each and was able to recycle a lot to save space and disposal costs.


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

Not even worth my time anymore. I had the permit that I got by following the law. But hey I guess you know better than me considering like you said that you don't even have a permit.
Thats ok, just don't complain when they catch you and hit you with a $5k fine. Good luck.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

brm1109 said:


> Not even worth my time anymore. I had the permit that I got by following the law. But hey I guess you know better than me considering like you said that you don't even have a permit.
> Thats ok, just don't complain when they catch you and hit you with a $5k fine. Good luck.



the fine is for illegal dumping.... you can't dump illegally if your not the one dumping.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Madextreme,

I think that you are not taking into consideration is that you are doing the trashout "for hire" and being paid for your work. That makes you a commercial business and the trash you are disposing of was not generated by you but by others. We can all debate the "being paid"


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> Madextreme,
> 
> I think that you are not taking into consideration is that you are doing the trashout "for hire" and being paid for your work. That makes you a commercial business and the trash you are disposing of was not generated by you but by others. We can all debate the "being paid"


Thank you Wannabe, that is what I am trying to point out. He is being paid for cleaning out a property. That is why you need the DEP permit. If you own a store and rent a dumpster to throw away your trash then you don't need a permit just the garbage company. But when you are the garbage company, which what a cleanout company is considered then you need the permit.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

just got off the phone with the DEP and they state it is fully legal, the dumpster company is taking the responsibility of the waste. As long as the person removing the debris can do so legally then there is no issue. It doesn't matter who owns the garbage. The DEP only regulates what is dumped at the dump or transfer station for this circumstance.


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## brm1109 (Sep 17, 2012)

Well gee then I guess I was just stupid for going through the background checks and getting the DEP to do cleanouts. I guess the ones that skirt the permits are the smart ones. Oh by the way, the next time you are loading debris into your unlicensed vehicle and the county environmental guy stops and asks to see your DEP permit just tell him that it is ok.
End of subject.


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

brm1109 said:


> Well gee then I guess I was just stupid for going through the background checks and getting the DEP to do cleanouts. I guess the ones that skirt the permits are the smart ones. Oh by the way, the next time you are loading debris into your unlicensed vehicle and the county environmental guy stops and asks to see your DEP permit just tell him that it is ok.
> End of subject.


Sorry Dude, but you are wrong on this one. Everything that has to do with DEP has to do with HAULING. If you load the debris into a dumpster, the dumpster company has to comply. What are you going to do, affix the DEP sticker to your shirt just to carry the sh*t from the house to the dumpster?
Here is a link: http://www.nj.gov/dep/enforcement/advisories/2003-02.pdf

I guess if you called and asked about doing "cleanouts" they told you that you needed to have the permit because that is specifically listed on the page, but they assumed you would be the one HAULING the debris. 

HOWEVER, I do agree with what you are saying about madextreme because he has stated that he loads the stuff into his trailer and takes it home to load to a dumpster. 

Madextreme, you do need to look at the link because you could get busted that way. If you had the dumpster delivered to the house you are working on and loaded up all the debris then you would NOT need to be registered because someone else would be doing the hauling.


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

brm1109 said:


> Well gee then I guess I was just stupid for going through the background checks and getting the DEP to do cleanouts. I guess the ones that skirt the permits are the smart ones. Oh by the way, the next time you are loading debris into your unlicensed vehicle and the county environmental guy stops and asks to see your DEP permit just tell him that it is ok.
> End of subject.


It's cold out today so I am enjoying my day off inside with nothing better to do so guess what I did? 

I called the NJ DEP at 609-292-7081 and pressed 1 for registration and tried pressing 1 again for general questions but got a machine so I called again and pressed 1 for registration and then 2 and spoke with a lovely woman named Rhonda and told her I am from PA and looking to expand my coverage into NJ and wanted to do trashouts, ONLY hiring a licensed dumpster company to haul away the debris but I would be the one removing the debris from the house and loading it into the dumpster.

I asked if I need ANY kind of registration or license from the DEP, she put me on hold for a few minutes and came back and said as long as SOMEONE ELSE was doing the hauling there was absolutely no reason for me to be registered. 

She did however say that I had to make sure the person doing the hauling was registered correctly with a solid pink (for breast cancer this year) sticker and not a checkered one. The solid one is for waste generated by someone else, and the checkered one is generated by the contractor themselves (roofers, contractors, landscapers, etc...) and if they did show up and say they could haul the waste but didn't have a solid sticker I was encouraged to call and report them right away!

Feel free to call Rhonda for yourself!

CASE CLOSED.


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## madxtreme01 (Mar 5, 2015)

bigdaddy said:


> It's cold out today so I am enjoying my day off inside with nothing better to do so guess what I did?
> 
> I called the NJ DEP at 609-292-7081 and pressed 1 for registration and tried pressing 1 again for general questions but got a machine so I called again and pressed 1 for registration and then 2 and spoke with a lovely woman named Rhonda and told her I am from PA and looking to expand my coverage into NJ and wanted to do trashouts, ONLY hiring a licensed dumpster company to haul away the debris but I would be the one removing the debris from the house and loading it into the dumpster.
> 
> ...



You know I never thought about the hauling aspect of it, only the dumping aspect. I will have to call again tomorrow to find out, but then again if you are stopped, who is to say where the garbage came from and what your doing with it. As long as it is disposed of properly I doubt you would get in any type of trouble. I will let everyone know what I find out. Although the better option would be just to either get the permit or operate in a state where it isn't required. The constant warm weather of Florida is sounding better and better each day.


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## safeguard dropout (Apr 21, 2015)

madxtreme01 said:


> Although the better option would be just to either get the permit or operate in a state where it isn't required.


I look at it this way.

You can either pay for that permit on the front end or the rear end. :vs_OMG: Take your pick.


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