# Safeguard



## HollandPPC

This is going to be a fun one but here it goes. 

Safeguard contacted me today about doing preservation work. We have been doing lawns/snow for quite some time and this has been going very well. Even got a higher rate then most of what I hear. 

Here is the issue though. They want me to add E&O for them. I do carry E&O for other companies and they send tons of work to make up for it. Called my insurance agent and when I said "safeguard properties" he laughed and said I did not want to know the additional cost for adding them. 

Told their SG vendor recruiter I would like to see price list first. I was told that I had to show them E&O first. Something sounds fishy to me here. 

Does anyone have this magic price list and be willing to discuss or help me with in PM?

Thanks to everyone in advance for the help and to everyone who is going to talk smack, piss off in advance.


----------



## Guest

Good Evening,

SG contacted me (via email) about 2 months ago to do some work for them. When I replied they said they didn't need my help. Fast forward about a month ago, same deal. 

I wish I knew what was going on as I would like to increase my volume.


----------



## HollandPPC

72opp said:


> Good Evening,
> 
> SG contacted me (via email) about 2 months ago to do some work for them. When I replied they said they didn't need my help. Fast forward about a month ago, same deal.
> 
> I wish I knew what was going on as I would like to increase my volume.


Did you read my post because you answered nothing I asked?


----------



## BPWY

I did some one time vendor stuff for them last year on distance properties and made out quite well.
I hear that much of that depends on who your vendor manager is also your area and how desperate they are to get these properties covered.

At times and for certain items like a dry wint I was making full HUD plus a $100 to $150 trip charge.
Put 3 of them together or more add lock changes and the route began to look profitable.


----------



## mtmtnman

HollandPPC said:


> Did you read my post because you answered nothing I asked?



Holland, I think what he was telling you in a round about way is be careful.......


----------



## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> Did you read my post because you answered nothing I asked?


Well. 

I am pretty sure I answered in a fashion that revealed more information about the doings and practices of Safeguard.

You sure are a testy [email protected]


----------



## GTX63

HollandPPC said:


> This is going to be a fun one but here it goes.
> 
> Safeguard contacted me today .
> 
> Told their SG vendor recruiter I would like to see price list first. I was told that I had to show them E&O first. Something sounds fishy to me here.
> 
> Does anyone have this magic price list and be willing to discuss or help me with in PM?


You said it, they contacted you first, then refused information until they had your insurance. LOL. A standard price list is meaningless. It depends on your vendor scorecard, how many vendors they have in your area, bla bla, more words...
They kicked back an invoice as a no pay once because we did an FSM inspection and our updater didn't put a zip code next to the address. I decided that was enough and notified them we were done with them. The manager for our area and her boss as well as the guy who originally recruited us 5 years earlier got on the phone with me all at once. We got our discount reduced and a couple rate increases to stay while they located another vendor. Supposedly they are still looking for that other vendor.

By the way, I told them we were no longer carrying their York Jersey required E&O scam insurance and if they did not want our GL they would have to use someone else. That was last year and they still send over orders.


----------



## HollandPPC

72opp said:


> Well.
> 
> I am pretty sure I answered in a fashion that revealed more information about the doings and practices of Safeguard.
> 
> You sure are a testy [email protected]


I do apologize for being a testy B. This damn industry can make you so bitter in a heartbeat. I guess I did not read into it enough.


----------



## BPWY

HollandPPC said:


> This damn industry can make you so bitter in a heartbeat.






You are correct about that. 

This is why I continue to tell every one to diversify.

There isn't a one of these service companies that has the smallest shred of loyalty.
You never know when one morning you'll get up and your biggest and "best" client will have emailed you over night telling you that its been real and its been fun but it aint no more.


Look around in your area and try to come up with some thing to start working towards. Even if its a side line business to P&P so that if this fickle industry does decide to let you go at least you've got some thing that is producing some dollars.
You never know, it may work into a full time business with P&P being a sideline or quitting it completely, like I plan to do no later than 4/1/12.


----------



## GTX63

I have yet to have been "let go" by any of these companies. They just don't send you work anymore, which can be even worse for some of the contractors on here who do rely on them for their sole support. They go day to day never knowing when the next order will come in. They have to keep telling their crews to sit and they'll get them some work as soon as they can. Yep, get into as many side businesses as you can and you may be suprised when one or two of them turn into bigger money makers than the turkeys you depend on now.


----------



## Guest

I'm not sure what your insurance agent was trying to tell you. You should not have to pay any extra just to add another company to your E & O insurance policy. My E & O as well as everyone else I work with is based on the "gross yearly sales" and has absolutely nothing to do with the specific companies we are working for. I have been with the same company for 5 years but there is another company that I recently learned about. You should ask your agent to clarify his statement because from what you said, if he was my agent he would have some explaining to do. Please let me know what he says. Thx.


----------



## HollandPPC

MakeItEz2GetPd said:


> I'm not sure what your insurance agent was trying to tell you. You should not have to pay any extra just to add another company to your E & O insurance policy. My E & O as well as everyone else I work with is based on the "gross yearly sales" and has absolutely nothing to do with the specific companies we are working for. I have been with the same company for 5 years but there is another company that I recently learned about. You should ask your agent to clarify his statement because from what you said, if he was my agent he would have some explaining to do. Please let me know what he says. Thx.


Thanks will let you know.


----------



## Guest

MakeItEz2GetPd said:


> I'm not sure what your insurance agent was trying to tell you. You should not have to pay any extra just to add another company to your E & O insurance policy. My E & O as well as everyone else I work with is based on the "gross yearly sales" and has absolutely nothing to do with the specific companies we are working for. I have been with the same company for 5 years but there is another company that I recently learned about. You should ask your agent to clarify his statement because from what you said, if he was my agent he would have some explaining to do. Please let me know what he says. Thx.


All Insurance Companies reserve the right to not only charge for adding an Additional Insured to any policy since underwriting requirments can and do happen but can cancel or non-renew a policy if the additional insured to the policy is a bad risk. 

All P&P Service Companies are bad risks IMO. As more of the Insurance Companies get a better underwriting grasp on the P&P business less companies will be willing to allow the additional insured rider.


----------



## mtmtnman

Doing a few REO's for screwguard up here for a friend of mine. Charged back a trip charge as we didn't show a pic of a tape measure on a lawn like this. Can't figure out why they are worried about lawns in Montana this time of year anyhow. Haven't had any new growth in 2 months..............


----------



## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> Doing a few REO's for screwguard up here for a friend of mine. Charged back a trip charge as we didn't show a pic of a tape measure on a lawn like this. Can't figure out why they are worried about lawns in Montana this time of year anyhow. Haven't had any new growth in 2 months..............


Hey just tell them that your not going back because it will cost us more money then what the deduct is for the miss photo. Then just go out to any yard anywhere make it be your yard and take a pic of a yard stick in the grass then send it to them.


----------



## thanohano44

RamRod23 said:


> Hey just tell them that your not going back because it will cost us more money then what the deduct is for the miss photo. Then just go out to any yard anywhere make it be your yard and take a pic of a yard stick in the grass then send it to them.


Falsifying photos is dishonest.


----------



## Guest

I know a contractor who done this.... Just so happened that the City demolished the home and the contractor got a chargedback for the cost of the home since they never informed tbe service company of the house being demoed the month before nor the required damage report. I know his lawyer was fighting it but meanwhile he is out of business and broke.


----------



## mtmtnman

thanohano44 said:


> Falsifying photos is dishonest.


So is charging back for no tape measure photo when it's obvious that it is winter time and there is no grass growing. Kinda like you getting charged back for not cutting 4' tall grass in a foot of snow eh Fremont???:laughing:


----------



## HollandPPC

RamRod23 said:


> Hey just tell them that your not going back because it will cost us more money then what the deduct is for the miss photo. Then just go out to any yard anywhere make it be your yard and take a pic of a yard stick in the grass then send it to them.


I may have done that a few times. Lol.


----------



## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> Falsifying photos is dishonest.





mtmtnman said:


> So is charging back for no tape measure photo when it's obvious that it is winter time and there is no grass growing. Kinda like you getting charged back for not cutting 4' tall grass in a foot of snow eh Fremont???:laughing:








Exactly.

Down right refusing to pay for services rendered is fraudulent.

Dont' stop these vultures tho.


----------



## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> So is charging back for no tape measure photo when it's obvious that it is winter time and there is no grass growing. Kinda like you getting charged back for not cutting 4' tall grass in a foot of snow eh Fremont???:laughing:


Personal integrity is all vato. Lol


----------



## Cooper2001

Just received an email from Safeguard about a webinar tomorrow to go over the new cubic yard documentation and procedures going forward...this should be interesting to see how the contractor is going to get screwed again..


----------



## RichR

Cooper2001 said:


> Just received an email from Safeguard about a webinar tomorrow to go over the new cubic yard documentation and procedures going forward...this should be interesting to see how the contractor is going to get screwed again..


Yep. Heard you will be using a Chaulkboard writing down cyd amount in each room, taking a photo of it and they will be paying on the load size. Oh and that Refrigerator is no longer 2 cyds because the secret is out, they know you can pack at least a cyd of clothes inside. :laughing:
From my understanding this is only for the REO guys not for the P&P side.


----------



## HollandPPC

RichR said:


> Yep. Heard you will be using a Chaulkboard writing down cyd amount in each room, taking a photo of it and they will be paying on the load size. Oh and that Refrigerator is no longer 2 cyds because the secret is out, they know you can pack at least a cyd of clothes inside. :laughing:
> From my understanding this is only for the REO guys not for the P&P side.


They are always thinking of a new way to rape contractors.


----------



## GTX63

They require you to be present at this meeting "or else!". Nice to get a 24 hour notice when your already loading up the first half of the week to clear the books before the holiday begins.


----------



## HollandPPC

GTX63 said:


> They require you to be present at this meeting "or else!". Nice to get a 24 hour notice when your already loading up the first half of the week to clear the books before the holiday begins.


They said the same for their snow conference. Called rep an hour later and said no big deal.


----------



## BPWY

GTX63 said:


> They require you to be present at this meeting "or else!". Nice to get a 24 hour notice when your already loading up the first half of the week to clear the books before the holiday begins.






I'd carry on as usual.



I don't know how many of those MANDATORY meetings I've dropped every thing and attended only to find maybe a half dozen folks in the meeting.

Each and every time the particular company has acted like its no big deal and life went on.

On the occasion I had to miss one nothing negative ever happened.


I wouldn't be sweating it. You've got stuff to get done before the holidays..... carry on.


----------



## GTX63

I'm staying in the office to attend. There will be changes coming that need to be noted, but none of them will benefit us financially. Just more photo requirements, more responsibility, more techniques for breaking down debris so you can fit more in a "25 cyd trailer". We have enough work going on with locals that I don't get too excited when SG starts tapping my desk with their pointer.


----------



## GTX63

Just an example of how ridiculous this national can be, a former sub of ours does the $6 inspections for them in Missouri. His guys burn approx 250 miles per day (each) running all over trying to complete door knocks, interior inspections, etc for chicken feed while he runs a contruction company, building homes, condos and maintaining rental property. He agreed to the inspections to keep guys going when it was slow. They didn't get 85% (their minimum score) of them turned in on time last month so he is supposed to call in to his inspection coordinator twice a week for the next 90 days to explain himself and submit proposals for improving his scores. Guy is 55 years old. I don't think he'll handle rear sucking to a 22 year old cubicle rat very well or for very long. They told him they won't pay any more because that is what the market there bears. LOL.


----------



## BPWY

If your friend was to do the math he'd find out how far behind the 8 ball he already is and just tell em to step off and be done with them.


----------



## GTX63

He knows there is no gain, he was just trying to keep some wives of his subs and a few newbies busy instead of laying them off. We've done them in the past and they have approached us about doing them again but I'm not sure what "market" they are using to tell him that is what they pay. No longer worth my time, I know that. I also know that I own my own company because I can't work for anyone else, so I'm not sure why they think they can put another owner/operator on "probation." Since that is what they told him the market bears, I said they should just hire the next lackey. Personally, I think taking those prices is killing that segment for the legits.


----------



## Guest

RichR said:


> Yep. Heard you will be using a Chaulkboard writing down cyd amount in each room, taking a photo of it and they will be paying on the load size. Oh and that Refrigerator is no longer 2 cyds because the secret is out, they know you can pack at least a cyd of clothes inside. :laughing:
> From my understanding this is only for the REO guys not for the P&P side.


Anyway for them to pocket YOUR money ! what a bunch of aholes !


----------



## GTX63

From their latest webinar-Mark the demensions of your trailer or dumpster with spray paint, photo the trailer empty, quarter, half, three quarter and full, each time with a dry erase board in the photo listing the cyds. Photo every room with the dry erase board listing the cyds totals, have a photo of a running total on your dry erase board, etc, etc, etc. House has to be in every pic of your trailer or dumpster. Dressers, entertainment centers, tables, all have to be broken down before counting the cyd. Per Safeguard, you will eliminate miscounts on your debris, invoice cuts, wasted time. You will be quicker and more productive. :thumbup:


----------



## brm1109

Sorry but that is not even worth the extra time. The only reason they are doing it is to be able to say "oh you forgot the photo of the middle of the truck, so we have to charge you back". 
If they keep having contractors work for them then you wonder who is more insane.


----------



## Guest

Please tell me this is a joke


----------



## HollandPPC

Is this an early April Fools joke?


----------



## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> Is this an early April Fools joke?


Doubt it.... There's always a NEW fool willing to be molested.

I've heard people say they banked 300k - 400k in a year with these idiots. 

If that's the case, then they should be looking at the real value of what they lost, probably 600K to 800K.

They've taken the term loss leader to a hole new level.

But keep prostituting yourselves for them guys (where applicable), they have shinny new pennies that they'll put in your stockings, IF you're really, really good.

In full disclosure, I've never belittled myself and worked for them. To much bad info out there on them.


----------



## BPWY

I'm grateful for the work they gave me last winter.
It allowed me to cash money $10,000 worth of lawn equipment.
I had a great coordinator during that time.


But it sounds like I won't be doing much for them going forward.
Forcing furniture to be broken down prior to counting cubes takes away the last place that a guy was able to turn a small profit on jobs.


----------



## Guest

BPWY said:


> Forcing furniture to be broken down prior to counting cubes takes away the last place that a guy was able to turn a small profit on jobs.


How true.


----------



## Guest

BPWY said:


> I'm grateful for the work they gave me last winter.
> It allowed me to cash money $10,000 worth of lawn equipment.
> I had a great coordinator during that time.
> 
> 
> But it sounds like I won't be doing much for them going forward.
> Forcing furniture to be broken down prior to counting cubes takes away the last place that a guy was able to turn a small profit on jobs.


I mean everyone hates Safegaurd But like any other company I suppose if whoever your contact is likes what you do for them its gonna pay off.... IMO


----------



## BPWY

I got this email yesterday 12/19/11. Notice the date deadline.
Nice job of keeping your contractors in the know.





> *REO Procedural Change to Photo Requirements**
> 
> Date Stamped Photos
> *Effective July 1, 2011, Safeguard will expect that all REO work orders will contain photos with accurate date stamps imprinted on the images. After July 1, 2011, orders that do not have date stamps will be subject to a billing penalty outlined below.
> 
> 
> Invoice total up to $250 = *$15 penalty  *
> Invoice total $251- $500 = *$25 penalty  *
> Invoice total $501 and up = *$50 penalty*


----------



## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> I got this email yesterday 12/19/11. Notice the date deadline.
> Nice job of keeping your contractors in the know.


Surely you cannot be held responsible due to their mix up right.


----------



## Guest

Good Morning,

I bet that they will hold contractors to this no matter whose fault it is. I am disappointed to read all of these things about SG lately as I had been attempting to get with that company due to BPWY comments.


----------



## mtmtnman

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> I bet that they will hold contractors to this no matter whose fault it is. I am disappointed to read all of these things about SG lately as I had been attempting to get with that company due to BPWY comments.



Better off with US Best. No hour long uploads, no E&O, no chargebacks, just e-mail photos, notes & bids to your co-coordinator and receive payment in 7-10 days........

NO STRESS!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Guest

Good Morning,

Don't forget that US Best requires contractors to relinquish their lien rights. I suggest that contractors read the contracts before they get $$ in their eyes.


----------



## BPWY

mtmtnman said:


> Better off with US Best. No hour long uploads, no E&O, no chargebacks, just e-mail photos, notes & bids to your co-coordinator and receive payment in 7-10 days........
> 
> NO STRESS!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:






Just hours long wait on BAC to un-F themselves and answer the phone.
Only to deny you and pay a lousy trip charge.

NO THANKS!


----------



## BPWY

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> I bet that they will hold contractors to this no matter whose fault it is. I am disappointed to read all of these things about SG lately as I had been attempting to get with that company due to BPWY comments.







If you are a very detailed oriented person give em a try.

But keep them on a very short leash and your coordinator on speed dial.


----------



## BPWY

I got this email from SG last week.




> We are in receipt of your invoice, photos and other documentation. Our review has revealed that the photos are insufficient to justify the work performed. Specifically: Your photos do not support that the property was frozen. Safeguard does not want to issue a chargeback for any reason, including insufficient photo documentation. However, Safeguard is required to submit sufficient documentation to establish that work was performed and may not get paid by its clients where the photos are insufficient. Safeguard will bill this work to its client but should they refuse to the pay the invoice due to insufficient photos, Safeguard will charge this back to you. Please, it is imperative that sufficient BEFORE and AFTER photos are taken of all work performed and these should be from the same view. Providing these photos is a required element of the work, a job is not considered completed without the before and after photos. As we stated, Safeguard wants to avoid the need to issue any chargeback. Please contact your regional coordinator if you have any questions regarding the photos required as part of a service. Thank you.







OK heres the deal, small single story house with one bath and utilities in the basement.
The only photographic evidence of frozen was the toilet bowl and tank a solid chunk of ice. And the busted shower valve.

The plumbing was updated to pex so that flexes and didn't split. Nothing else was able to be photographed because its not going to show frozen. None of the faucets had ice coming out of them etc.


So exactly how and what more photos can a guy take to cover his butt in a situation like this so that they don't cut me for thawing a frozen house?


----------



## Guest

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> Don't forget that US Best requires contractors to relinquish their lien rights. I suggest that contractors read the contracts before they get $$ in their eyes.


You know that signing that doesn't necessarily mean anything right.


----------



## Guest

Good Morning,

If signing contracts doesn't mean anything, then I see a whole mess of problems in the future for any who ever signed a contract for anything ever.




US BEST said:


> Good afternoon
> Thank you I appreciated it. I spoke with my manager and also the lawyer here at Us Best Repairs as they explain to me how the process works. As they explained to me that many states make lien waivers on construction contracts. MN State laws will “win” over any signed contract. I understand with this being said that you will no longer be able to move forward with this process and our company. I appreciate your time given.





US BEST said:


> Thank You,
> M





Minnesota Law said:


> *337.10 BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS; PROHIBITED PROVISIONS.*
> 
> *Subdivision 1.Application of laws of another state.*
> 
> Provisions contained in, or executed in connection with, a building and construction contract to be performed in Minnesota making the contract subject to the laws of another state or requiring that any litigation, arbitration, or other dispute resolution process on the contract occur in another state are void and unenforceable.
> 
> *Subd. 2.Waiver of lien or claim.*
> 
> Provisions contained in, or executed in connection with, a building and construction contract requiring a contractor, subcontractor, or material supplier to waive the right to a mechanics lien or to a claim against a payment bond before the person has been paid for the labor or materials or both that the person furnished are void and unenforceable. This provision shall not affect the validity of a waiver as to any third party who detrimentally relies upon the waiver.


----------



## mtmtnman

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> Don't forget that US Best requires contractors to relinquish their lien rights. I suggest that contractors read the contracts before they get $$ in their eyes.


So does everybody else..................


----------



## Guest

Good Morning,

Right. Well, I see you are not understanding what/why I am posting. I do you have an excellent day!


----------



## BPWY

72opp said:


> Originally Posted by US BEST
> Good afternoon
> Thank you I appreciated it. I spoke with my manager and also the lawyer here at Us Best Repairs as they explain to me how the process works. As they explained to me that many states make lien waivers on construction contracts. MN State laws will “win” over any signed contract. I understand with this being said that you will no longer be able to move forward with this process and our company. I appreciate your time given.







So they do no work in MN?





Why didn't they tell you that up front in stead of all of the BS to get to this point.


----------



## Guest

Good Morning,

No doubt BPWY! I was thinking of that as well which is why I didn't pursue the matter with them. 

If I felt like working with a company like that, I would have kept my mouth shut and not said anything. Maybe that is what I should do in the future.

My latest complaint is that MCS wants E&O from me. I told them "not unless I invoice $10k or get a written guarantee of $10k invoice worth of work". They told me they will get back to me after they view my current GL insurance (which I had sent over). We'll see.


----------



## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> Just hours long wait on BAC to un-F themselves and answer the phone.
> Only to deny you and pay a lousy trip charge.
> 
> NO THANKS!


I get rather nice trip charges if we don't get approvals. Between $35 and $50 depending on distance from our office. Wait time is around 15 minutes as of lately. Lock and wint is *$100 TO ME. * Screwguard would pay $112 but then i would have to spend an hour uploading the completion and making sure every photo is in the right spot. The $12 bucks i loose is well worth it compared to the frustration and time it took to do the upload. With US Best, i finish up the job, jump in the truck, Zip the file on the netbook, type notes and bids, click send and i'm done! Literally 5-10 minutes VS 45 minutes to an hour. The best thing though is payment in 7-10 days VS 45-60 days. If you look back and my hundreds of posts i RARELY praise a company but these people have treated me VERY well.........


----------



## mtmtnman

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> Right. Well, I see you are not understanding what/why I am posting. I do you have an excellent day!




Here is the point, You work for MCS right? You signed your lein rights away with them. If you work for Safeguard, you will sign your lein rights away with them, Core Logic?? Same thing there. Most EVERY national has a similar clause. Maybe US Best makes it stand out more. I don't really know. All i can say is in 3 1/2 years in this business they are the ONLY company that has not tried to screw me.............


----------



## Guest

72opp said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> If signing contracts doesn't mean anything, then I see a whole mess of problems in the future for any who ever signed a contract for anything ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You,
> M


[/QUOTE]

So your saying your state allows you(employer) to sign away my(employee) rights?


----------



## Guest

Morning,

1. I don't have employees.
2. I don't want employees.
3. Since I don't have nor want employees, I cannot sign anyone's employee's rights away.
4. Employee's do not have lien rights. Contractors, however, do have lien rights.
5. In Minnesota it is unenforceable for a contractor to waive lien rights.
6. I keep forgetting that sarcasm does not work well in a digital text environment unless blatantly stated with "/sarcasm" tags.
7. I don't contract with MCS (yet, it's a maybe).
8. If it is mutual that MCS and my company wish to do business together, I will sign the contract and not bring up the previously mentioned MN statue.
9. I base all of my judgements off of personal/professional experience. Any company (and I don't care how well they pay or how much or when or where or why or who or *anything*) that asks you, as an independent contractor, to sign away lien rights (even if it is unenforceable in your state) is cause for concern and contemplation.
10. There are two sides to anything and I am attempting to add counter point to mtmtnman comments about a company for others to add into their decision making process.
11. I believe, after being on these boards for a spell now, that some of the contractors on this board have or will face drastically different experience in dealings with companies. 
12. Because of point 11, the flowery rhetoric posted by some contractors about companies and experiences they have had with national companies will not be relevant to other contractors.


----------



## thanohano44

72opp said:


> Morning,
> 
> 1. I don't have employees.
> 2. I don't want employees.
> 3. Since I don't have nor want employees, I cannot sign anyone's employee's rights away.
> 4. Employee's do not have lien rights. Contracts, however, do have lien rights.
> 5. In Minnesota it is unenforceable for a contractor to waive lien rights.
> 6. I keep forgetting that sarcasm does not work well in a text digital environment unless blatantly stated with "/sarcasm" tags.
> 7. I don't contract with MCS (yet, it's a maybe).
> 8. If it is mutual that MCS and my company wish to do business together, I will sign the contract and not bring up the previously mentioned MN statue.
> 9. I base all of my judgements off of personal/professional experience. Any company (and I don't care how well they pay or how much or when or where or why or who or anything) that asks you, as an independent contractor, to sign away lien rights (even if it is unenforceable in your state) is cause for concern and contemplation.
> 10. There are two sides to anything and I am attempting to add counter point to mtmtnman comments about a company for others to add into their decision making process.
> 11. I believe, after being on these boards for a spell now, that some of the contractors on this board have or will face drastically different experience in dealings with companies.
> 12. Because of point 11, the flowery rhetoric posted by some contractors about companies and experiences they have had with national companies will not be relevant to other contractors.


Dang, these nationals are starting to remind me of last nights football game. They played better in the dark because we couldn't see it. Lol


----------



## Guest

72opp said:


> Morning,
> 
> 1. I don't have employees.
> 2. I don't want employees.
> 3. Since I don't have nor want employees, I cannot sign anyone's employee's rights away.
> 4. Employee's do not have lien rights. Contractors, however, do have lien rights.
> 5. In Minnesota it is unenforceable for a contractor to waive lien rights.
> 6. I keep forgetting that sarcasm does not work well in a digital text environment unless blatantly stated with "/sarcasm" tags.
> 7. I don't contract with MCS (yet, it's a maybe).
> 8. If it is mutual that MCS and my company wish to do business together, I will sign the contract and not bring up the previously mentioned MN statue.
> 9. I base all of my judgements off of personal/professional experience. Any company (and I don't care how well they pay or how much or when or where or why or who or anything) that asks you, as an independent contractor, to sign away lien rights (even if it is unenforceable in your state) is cause for concern and contemplation.
> 10. There are two sides to anything and I am attempting to add counter point to mtmtnman comments about a company for others to add into their decision making process.
> 11. I believe, after being on these boards for a spell now, that some of the contractors on this board have or will face drastically different experience in dealings with companies.
> 12. Because of point 11, the flowery rhetoric posted by some contractors about companies and experiences they have had with national companies will not be relevant to other contractors.


Your points make perfect sense,not saying you don't. Your pt #4 is incorrect here, an employee or sub or employee of a sub still have that right,we just don't tell.


----------



## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> Dang, these nationals are starting to remind me of last nights football game. They played better in the dark because we couldn't see it. Lol







Very similar to driving across NE on I-80.
At night its pretty much the same boring as in the day light.


----------



## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> Here is the point, You work for MCS right? You signed your lein rights away with them. If you work for Safeguard, you will sign your lein rights away with them, Core Logic?? Same thing there. Most EVERY national has a similar clause. Maybe US Best makes it stand out more. I don't really know. All i can say is in 3 1/2 years in this business they are the ONLY company that has not tried to screw me.............


Corelogic best to work for !


----------



## mtmtnman

XLARGEX said:


> Corelogic best to work for !


They wouldn't talk to me here as I was not willing to cover the whole state.......


----------



## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> They wouldn't talk to me here as I was not willing to cover the whole state.......


CoreLogic has more pros than cons. I would rather work for 5 Brothers.


----------



## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> CoreLogic has more pros than cons. I would rather work for 5 Brothers.


Well 90% of my work is CL and I wouldnt trade it for anything other than a winning lotto ticket :laughing:


----------



## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> They wouldn't talk to me here as I was not willing to cover the whole state.......


Its not possible by yourself I mean maybe in the smallest state in the country but not out there


----------



## thanohano44

XLARGEX said:


> Its not possible by yourself I mean maybe in the smallest state in the country but not out there


If you have employees or subs, you can cover a majority of the state. At least, that's what most regionals and nationals do. Or use Craigslist.


----------



## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> If you have employees or subs, you can cover a majority of the state. At least, that's what most regionals and nationals do. Or use Craigslist.


Craigslist LOL :laughing:


----------



## BPWY

In his state they are lucky to have newspaper delivery.

Let alone internet with Craigslist. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Guest

Are you sure you are reading the "no lien" clause correctly??

Although I don't work for nationals, I have signed plenty of them for smaller banks. The ones I sign basically say once I get paid what I invoiced for, I can't lien the property. AKA, I accept their payment as payment in full. They usually also require that I sign something saying that I paid all of my subs and no one has any reason to lien the property, if a sub is not paid then it comes out of my pocket. This is totally acceptable and used everyday in the construction field.

I doubt any contract would state you could not lien a property for non payment, is this even legal?


----------



## thanohano44

XLARGEX said:


> Craigslist LOL :laughing:


I agree. But FAS found us on Craigslist.


----------



## Guest

BigDaddyPin said:


> Are you sure you are reading the "no lien" clause correctly??
> 
> Although I don't work for nationals, I have signed plenty of them for smaller banks. The ones I sign basically say once I get paid what I invoiced for, I can't lien the property. AKA, I accept their payment as payment in full. They usually also require that I sign something saying that I paid all of my subs and no one has any reason to lien the property, if a sub is not paid then it comes out of my pocket. This is totally acceptable and used everyday in the construction field.
> 
> I doubt any contract would state you could not lien a property for non payment, is this even legal?


BigDaddy you are "kinda correct"... like "kinda pregnant"...in this business who the heck knows.... I do know that MC* is getting ready to test the MN Codes. 

If a person/company is fully paid for a service completed then issued a chargeback months later and then deduct the amount from another invoice that is illegal --MN say's this is considered fraud and the contract signed is invalid under the severability clause. I guess its like writing a check which you cash then the checkwriter cancels the check.

Also, the chargeback that is applied against a seperate invoice opens up the Lien "opportunity" not for the property you were paid for but against the invoice that is reduced.

Where the gray area is this example: 
Work completed and invoiced $2200 for a special order item. 3 months later a chargeback is issued since HUD supposedly said the charge was "not a fair amount--exact words" and the future check is reduced by $1070.00. NOW here is where the attorney said it gets real interesting.......this future check will have MULTIPLE INVOICES so to which invoice is the amount being deducted from??? Atty answer:::: ALL OF THEM. All properties will have a lien filed. 

Basically the short story is::: when paid in full you cannot lien that property..you can only lien the property (ies) that you are not paid in full on.

Whew:thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

Charge back?

That is another thing im 99% sure is made up!
I have never heard of, or been threatened with a charge back ever.

I'm sure if I ever do something that causes damage later on, or if I did the job incorrectly and someone else had to redo it then I could be sued. 

But charge back, for "not a fair amount", come on! Do you really believe that??

Charge back for missing, late, no date, etc... photos?? I don't think so either!

This is middleman, regional, national, whoever bull s#*t games to screw you out of money and fatten tier own pockets!


----------



## Guest

YEP 100% in agreement.


----------



## BPWY

FremontREO said:


> BigDaddy you are "kinda correct"... like "kinda pregnant"...in this business who the heck knows.... I do know that MC* is getting ready to test the MN Codes.







I've got a good guess on whose gonna win that round.


----------



## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> CoreLogic has more pros than cons. I would rather work for 5 Brothers.



I think AMS has corelogic in our area  Still trying to get in with 5 Bros


----------



## thanohano44

ARpreservation said:


> I think AMS has corelogic in our area  Still trying to get in with 5 Bros


???? A national doing work for a national?


----------



## BPWY

BigDaddyPin said:


> Charge back?
> 
> That is another thing im 99% sure is made up!
> I have never heard of, or been threatened with a charge back ever.
> 
> I'm sure if I ever do something that causes damage later on, or if I did the job incorrectly and someone else had to redo it then I could be sued.
> 
> But charge back, for "not a fair amount", come on! Do you really believe that??
> 
> Charge back for missing, late, no date, etc... photos?? I don't think so either!
> 
> This is middleman, regional, national, whoever bull s#*t games to screw you out of money and fatten tier own pockets!


.







I've said the same thing for a while. 
When one of these big nats issue a charge back and you ask to see proof that HUD or who ever charged them back.............. they will flat refuse to prove it.

If that doesn't look a whole lot suspicious.......... I'd like to know what does.


----------



## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> ???? A national doing work for a national?







Wouldn't be the first time. 


Lot of companies work for LPS.
I've heard that FAS and Spectrum Field services work together too.


----------



## HollandPPC

thanohano44 said:


> ???? A national doing work for a national?


I've seen hacks training hacks. Nationals teaming up to screw contractors I can see that.


----------



## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> Wouldn't be the first time.
> 
> Lot of companies work for LPS.
> I've heard that FAS and Spectrum Field services work together too.


I knew about LPS. And Safeguard both working with FAS.


----------



## Guest

ARpreservation said:


> I think AMS has corelogic in our area  Still trying to get in with 5 Bros


What area are you in ?


----------



## BPWY

Didn't the e-Christmas card they sent out today make you feel all warm and fuzzy? 
lol


----------



## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> ???? A national doing work for a national?


I did work at a CL house for one of my clients. They no longer service CL. So I tried calling all over to see who has the contract. I finally smart up and go back to the house to find an AMS posting in the window. So yeah, National doing work for a National and then Im sure AMS is subbing it out for $.50 on the $1 or less


----------



## mtmtnman

ARpreservation said:


> I did work at a CL house for one of my clients. They no longer service CL. So I tried calling all over to see who has the contract. I finally smart up and go back to the house to find an AMS posting in the window. So yeah, National doing work for a National and then Im sure AMS is subbing it out for $.50 on the $1 or less



Could have conveyed to FNMA or HUD don't you think???


----------



## Craigslist Hack

mtmtnman said:


> Could have conveyed to FNMA or HUD don't you think???


I do some work for AMS and all of it is P4C. I like it.


----------



## Guest

https://safeguard.adobeconnect.com/_a716554048/p7jwzo50flv/

The confidentiality statement contains an elementary grammatical mistake. I can't believe SG is so unprofessional. SG can't even make their lies about "reducing frustration" and increasing efficiency even halfway believable. Every party knows the truth. 

SG could gain some respect by not treating contractors like they have the same embarrassing IQ of that of the SG employees.


----------



## thanohano44

Paradox said:


> https://safeguard.adobeconnect.com/_a716554048/p7jwzo50flv/
> 
> The confidentiality statement contains an elementary grammatical mistake. I can't believe SG is so unprofessional. SG can't even make their lies about "reducing frustration" and increasing efficiency even halfway believable. Every party knows the truth.
> 
> SG could gain some respect by not treating contractors like they have the same embarrassing IQ of that of the SG employees.


If you think that's bad , you should've seen the old FAFS contract. It contradicted even the work they were doing. This was in 2006.


----------



## Guest

FremontREO said:


> All Insurance Companies reserve the right to not only charge for adding an Additional Insured to any policy since underwriting requirments can and do happen but can cancel or non-renew a policy if the additional insured to the policy is a bad risk.
> 
> All P&P Service Companies are bad risks IMO. As more of the Insurance Companies get a better underwriting grasp on the P&P business less companies will be willing to allow the additional insured rider.


I know my Insurance agent added something to my policy for unlimited add. insured for like a few bucks but I really have not added more than 1


----------



## Guest

XLARGEX,

Sorry but I doubt that any company has a "unlimited additional insured" rider since actuarially it would be nearly impossible to gauge risk. Perhaps you are thinking unlimited Certificates of Insurance for a fee?

If the policy is Agency Billed (you get billed from the agent and not the Ins Company) than the agent can bill for extra clerical work (processing the Accord Forms) but if the policy is direct billed (directly from the Ins. Company) than the agent cannot charge extra for clerical time. 

This is the exact reason why the Service Companies are starting to require the contractors to use certain "approved" Agencies since the contractors and the neighborhood Agents do not understand the business and cannot write a policy with the correct endorsements that would allow the SERVICE COMPANIES to collect from the contractors insurance policy without the named insureds permission. MtMtNMN had a link which I agree 100% with that this requirement to use only their approved agencies would be struck down under the Free Trade Act but till then they will implement these changes on the contractors and the contractor will pay more premiums because of their actions. 

It all boils down to this: NO Service Company could ever afford to pay for an insurance policy to protect the risk involved in the P&P business so they force the 100's/1000's of contractors to provide this protection for them.


----------



## Guest

FremontREO said:


> XLARGEX,
> 
> Sorry but I doubt that any company has a "unlimited additional insured" rider since actuarially it would be nearly impossible to gauge risk. Perhaps you are thinking unlimited Certificates of Insurance for a fee?
> 
> If the policy is Agency Billed (you get billed from the agent and not the Ins Company) than the agent can bill for extra clerical work (processing the Accord Forms) but if the policy is direct billed (directly from the Ins. Company) than the agent cannot charge extra for clerical time.
> 
> This is the exact reason why the Service Companies are starting to require the contractors to use certain "approved" Agencies since the contractors and the neighborhood Agents do not understand the business and cannot write a policy with the correct endorsements that would allow the SERVICE COMPANIES to collect from the contractors insurance policy without the named insureds permission. MtMtNMN had a link which I agree 100% with that this requirement to use only their approved agencies would be struck down under the Free Trade Act but till then they will implement these changes on the contractors and the contractor will pay more premiums because of their actions.
> 
> It all boils down to this: NO Service Company could ever afford to pay for an insurance policy to protect the risk involved in the P&P business so they force the 100's/1000's of contractors to provide this protection for them.


I kinda read through what your saying and my bill comes directly from Pekin and my insurance cert says I do mortgage field services not handyman or plumber or that stuff and Im pretty certain that it covers as many ad. Insured as I need or want ! That was offered through the Insurance company according to my guy


----------



## thanohano44

XLARGEX said:


> I kinda read through what your saying and my bill comes directly from Pekin and my insurance cert says I do mortgage field services not handyman or plumber or that stuff and Im pretty certain that it covers as many ad. Insured as I need or want ! That was offered through the Insurance company according to my guy


Never trust the sales guy who is selling something to you without verifying it.


----------



## GTX63

Companies such as Safeguard will still not accept a Pekin policy. It doesn't matter what or who it has listed.


----------



## Guest

*Unlimited Additional Insured*



FremontREO said:


> XLARGEX,
> 
> Sorry but I doubt that any company has a "unlimited additional insured" rider since actuarially it would be nearly impossible to gauge risk. Perhaps you are thinking unlimited Certificates of Insurance for a fee?
> 
> If the policy is Agency Billed (you get billed from the agent and not the Ins Company) than the agent can bill for extra clerical work (processing the Accord Forms) but if the policy is direct billed (directly from the Ins. Company) than the agent cannot charge extra for clerical time.
> 
> This is the exact reason why the Service Companies are starting to require the contractors to use certain "approved" Agencies since the contractors and the neighborhood Agents do not understand the business and cannot write a policy with the correct endorsements that would allow the SERVICE COMPANIES to collect from the contractors insurance policy without the named insureds permission. MtMtNMN had a link which I agree 100% with that this requirement to use only their approved agencies would be struck down under the Free Trade Act but till then they will implement these changes on the contractors and the contractor will pay more premiums because of their actions.
> 
> It all boils down to this: NO Service Company could ever afford to pay for an insurance policy to protect the risk involved in the P&P business so they force the 100's/1000's of contractors to provide this protection for them.


There are lots of insurance companies that offer blanket additional insured endorsements. I have worked in the contractors insurance industry for several years and I represent several companies that offer unlimited additional insureds.


----------

