# VRM now wants E&O on top of GL



## Justgettinby (Oct 27, 2014)

Really? What would I possibly need E&O for? It is ridiculous. My insurance agents were even baffled. There is simply no logical reason. They just can't keep taking money like this. I told them to forget it. I dont' get enough business and an E&O policy costs more than I get from an entire property. :vs_mad:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

The rest of us have had E&O from day one. Welcome to 15years ago bro. Next you are going to learn that people would rather type a conversation than talk. It's called text! I know what you are thinking. "it will never work" well it did! 

You are also going to be bummed you didn't buy Apple stock.


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## Justgettinby (Oct 27, 2014)

First, I don't understand your sarcasm or your tone, so maybe I am missing something 

Second, last time I looked down my shirt I wasn't your "bro".

Third, I have general liability, I work for many companies and have never been asked to have E&O and neither of my insurance agents have heard of such a thing for what kind of work I am doing. 

But hey, sure bite off my head and be rude and sarcastic, I am sure I earned in some way. Or not.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

E&O is normal and is needed in the P&P business for many many reasons but an everyday Insurance agent doesn't have the knowledge base to understand why...
Not slamming your agent it's just a business that all the errors fall on the last contractor at the home.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

If you are talking about having to buy VRM's version of E&O, then I agree. I was never a fan of company stores, but having the necessary credentials, including specific coverages, gives the client a little more confidence you aren't the typical hack with a truck bed full of beer cans who will butcher a job and then walk away.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Justgettinby said:


> First, I don't understand your sarcasm or your tone, so maybe I am missing something
> 
> Second, last time I looked down my shirt I wasn't your "bro".
> 
> ...


If you have never had to have it before it leads one to question who you were working for? Even my private clients require it in some cases. More importantly you want to have it to protect yourself. 

Call York-Jersey.


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## charge back (Dec 3, 2016)

Craigslist Hack said:


> If you have never had to have it before it leads one to question who you were working for? Even my private clients require it in some cases. More importantly you want to have it to protect yourself.
> 
> Call York-Jersey.


I agree with carrying it and wonder how one can even be in the industry with out it, but I would never buy it from one of the "approved" vendors of the nationals, if the company is "approved" it means they have no problem screwing the person paying for the policy, I found a policy locally and have to approve any claim payout, I would not have a policy without that clause


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## mtmtnman (May 1, 2012)

I typically do not do pre-sale. REO in my experience does not require E&O. I have a direct federal contract with USDA and they don't require it either. For those with the volume to be "All In P&P" it wouldn't be bad but due to low volume, preservation accounts for less than 20% of my annual sales and a preservation/e&o policy WILL NOT cover the other 80% of the work i do. So if a company won't take what i have, i move on as i am NOT buying 2 separate policies. 

Here is what is mind boggling. Say 111 Main street is in pre-foreclosure and needs a roof. Safeguard contractor is not a licensed roofer so SG asks them to get 3rd party bids. ABC roofing is the low bidder and gets the job. ABC roofing is NOT required to have E&O. Their contractors general liability is sufficient. Something stinks here and it's not the cheese in Denmark. That said, I have $25K professional liability (AKA e&o) as part of my general contractors liability package. Not sufficient for P&P though.......


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## charge back (Dec 3, 2016)

mtmtnman said:


> Here is what is mind boggling. Say 111 Main street is in pre-foreclosure and needs a roof. Safeguard contractor is not a licensed roofer so SG asks them to get 3rd party bids. ABC roofing is the low bidder and gets the job. ABC roofing is NOT required to have E&O. Their contractors general liability is sufficient. Something stinks here and it's not the cheese in Denmark. That said, I have $25K professional liability (AKA e&o) as part of my general contractors liability package. Not sufficient for P&P though.......


because if screwguard contractor buys insurance from "approved" insurance vendor SG will just approve claim against SG contractor and not even pursue the sub contractor


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## AaronMcKeehan (May 8, 2015)

Do you also have the required Workers Comp insurance?:vs_OMG:


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

York-Jersey has denied every claim we have faced. I have had to pay out of pocket to keep a client when I felt like we were in the wrong. Back in the day we had lessons to learn.


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## Justgettinby (Oct 27, 2014)

Aaron McKeehan, I do not have worker's comp. I am exempt. Two people own the company and we are the only people doing the work. 

So you guys have E&O AND general liability?

No they are not forcing me to buy it from their company of choice.

I am spending about $1800 per year on general liability. E&O basically duplicates that coverage. 

As far as who I have or do work for? VRM, but quit 18 months ago and was just coming back. Single Source, Safeguard for about one day before I ran the other way, Cyprexx and one other one that I can't remember b/c I quit over their technology platform nightmare.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Justgettinby said:


> Aaron McKeehan, I do not have worker's comp. I am exempt. Two people own the company and we are the only people doing the work.
> 
> So you guys have E&O AND general liability?
> 
> ...


We have had E&O since we ran our very first work order. I also have insurance on the equipment in case a generator or tools get stolen. 

The thing I don't have is the ability to match the other guys price.


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## charge back (Dec 3, 2016)

Craigslist Hack said:


> York-Jersey has denied every claim we have faced. I have had to pay out of pocket to keep a client when I felt like we were in the wrong. Back in the day we had lessons to learn.


was this for a national after they were one of the "approved" insurance vendors? 

why did they deny claim? my experience (limited) has been ins co always seem a little too quick to pay claim


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## Justgettinby (Oct 27, 2014)

Does VRM increase the invoices and get more money from VA and USDA or do they bill exactly what they get charged? Not for the flat fee stuff, but rather the additional items that get bid. I am comparing it to Single Souce, which adds 25% to what we bill.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

charge back said:


> was this for a national after they were one of the "approved" insurance vendors?
> 
> why did they deny claim? my experience (limited) has been ins co always seem a little too quick to pay claim


I can only speak from my one experience. We had a contractor in the field perform a winterization. The pics provided were fairly sub par and we pushed it through trying to get the order updated by the due date. Three years later we get a Charge back notification for $10,000.00 in plumbing damages. I investigated the claim. I called the city to see what permits had been pulled, called the local plumbing inspectors, etc. I basically received no proof any such work had ever been done and the plumbing help pressure 3 years prior when we did the Wint. What happened to the property after that is a mystery. Anyway I refused and refuse until they settled for a lowly sum. That sum was less than the cost of a newspaper add to get private customers calling so i just paid it and wrote the entire thing off as the cost of doing business. 

What I still don't understand to this day is why there is not a third party arbitrator for these kind of disputes. I actually received an email that stated "after an internal revue we have determined that our claim is valid" I sent them a response that read "after our own internal revue we have determined that we are not liable" it went back and forth like that for a bit.


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## charge back (Dec 3, 2016)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I I actually received an email that stated "after an internal revue we have determined that our claim is valid" I sent them a response that read "after our own internal revue we have determined that we are not liable" it went back and forth like that for a bit.


I like those emails too, 

Big Bad National - our company policy is X and you must comply

Little ol me - does that we can drop workers comp because we are now employees of BBN? 

BBN - our company policy does not change your status as a sub contractor

LOM - our company policy prevents us from following other companies policies 

BBN - we can no longer send you work if you do not comply

LOM - Okay

2 hours later

BBN - we need someone too do Y

LOM - we are not in compliance with policy X, we can not take on project Y

BBN - we can make an exception 

LOM :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

and to the claim, how many people were on site in 3 years after you left? and the current way the "approved" insurance vendor set up is, when the company made the determination that the claim was valid they would have submitted to your insurance for payment, you would have found out about it when your rates went up at renewal, how that is legal and/or anyone agrees to it is beyond me.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

charge back said:


> I like those emails too,
> 
> Big Bad National - our company policy is X and you must comply
> 
> ...


That particular situation never made it to my insurance. I've had 2 others over the years they hit my insurance for. I was copied on all emails and my insurance denied both claims. Johnny Rumbaugh at York-Jersey is a pretty sensible guy. You can call him up and talk about your options. He's very experienced and knowledgeable in dealing with these clients and situations. I'm pleased with my York-Jersey experience.


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