# The countdown HAS begun...



## damaton

For sorry suckers to lose their @ss trying to do their work. Remember guys this is before the 20% BS made up discount. Good Luck!!

It is extremely important to ensure that all Fannie Mae properties are free of health and safety hazards. It is our job to keep these properties safe and hazard free. Please identify any health and safety conditions at time of Initial Services and remediate immediately. If you are a Routine Contractor and notice any of these hazards please address at time of routine services. Update Vorticity EMS with photographs of completion of the remedial action. 
Health and Safety Hazards and their remedies Include, but are not limited to, the following items:
•	Ensure all broken glass is removed
•	Replace all missing switch plate and outlet covers, both inside and outside of the home
•	Cap all exposed wiring: All electrical wires that are unsecured or uncapped will be secured, and all exposed wiring shall be capped.
•	Re-secure all loose light fixtures and ceiling fans
•	Repair all broken or missing stairs. All missing or broken stairs shall be repaired or replaced, and all missing handrails shall be replaced as needed.
•	Repair all broken or missing handrails
•	Replace or repair all missing vent covers and open holes in the flooring
•	Fill in or repair all large open holes in the yard
•	Repair all trip hazards both in and out of the property. 
•	Secure all objects to the walls as appropriate, including shelves, cabinets, and drywall
•	Remove all nails, hooks, and screws from walls
•	Mitigate all minor health and safety hazards, including small areas of discoloration or mildew, rotting food in refrigerators, and other environmental hazards
•	All missing switch plate and outlet covers shall be replaced.
•	Trouble code areas with greater than 100 contiguous feet of discoloration.
•	Replace missing light bulbs (every socket in every light fixture must have light bulb installed)
•	Prevention of further moisture damage that may be caused by active roof or plumbing leaks at the property. All care should be given to any cause of moisture damage that may cause a further deterioration of the property, or to mitigate any type of damage that may be a safety or health hazard. Every effort must be made to match all roof repairs to the same or equivalent shingle that is on the roof at the time of repair. All active roof leaks must be repaired to prevent further moisture damage. Application of tarps may be utilized as a temporary measure while bids and approvals for needed repairs are pending.
•	All missing or broken covers to circuit breaker or fuse box panels shall be replaced.
•	All patios, porches, and decks shall be secured. Sufficient railings shall be installed should they be missing that would secure the area. Trip hazards shall be mitigated on all porches and decks, ensuring that there are not large open areas that would constitute a trip hazard.

All Health and Safety hazards are to be completed within 2 days of notice, and the completed work order including before and after digital photographs will be uploaded into Vorticity EMS within 1 days of completion. Please find a copy of the safety hazard checklist Fannie Mae uses at the bottom of this email. 
Safety Hazard Pricing Matrix
Service	Pricing
Tack Strip Removal	$55.00 per room
Crawlspace Door (Hasp & Lock)	$40.00 
Electrical Panel Cover	$25.00 
Handrail Installation	$7.00 per lin. ft.
Secure Handrail	$2.50 per lin. ft.
Holes - Filing w/ Dirt or Concrete	$10.00 (5 gallon)
Insect Extermination	provide pricing
Lock Change (Door Knob)	$35.00 
Outlet and Switch Covers	$1.00 each 
Pad Locks	$20.00 
Step $20.00 per step
Toilet Missing - Capping Sewer Line	$15.00 each
Vent Covers	$15.00 
Water (Standing) - Pump Out	provide pricing
Window Well Cover	$25.00 (over (2) is $10.00)
Wire Capping	$1.00 per box
Electrical or Fuse Panel Cover	$25.00 
Replace light bulbs	$1.00 per box of 4
Install Blanks in Breaker	$4.00 per blank
Gas Capping	$5.00 each 
Repair damaged hole in floor	$4.00 per sq. ft.
Secure loose ceiling fan	$15.00 each
Secure light fixtures	$15.00 each
Secure loose cabinets, cabinet doors, drawers, countertops	$15.00 each
Window locks	$15.00 each
Transition strip $4.00 per lin. ft.


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## Guest

Cool. Then don't do it! :thumbup:


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## Guest

damaton said:


> For sorry suckers to lose their @ss trying to do their work. Remember guys this is before the 20% BS made up discount. Good Luck!!
> 
> It is extremely important to ensure that all Fannie Mae properties are free of health and safety hazards. It is our job to keep these properties safe and hazard free. Please identify any health and safety conditions at time of Initial Services and remediate immediately. If you are a Routine Contractor and notice any of these hazards please address at time of routine services. Update Vorticity EMS with photographs of completion of the remedial action.
> Health and Safety Hazards and their remedies Include, but are not limited to, the following items:
> •	Ensure all broken glass is removed
> •	Replace all missing switch plate and outlet covers, both inside and outside of the home
> •	Cap all exposed wiring: All electrical wires that are unsecured or uncapped will be secured, and all exposed wiring shall be capped.
> •	Re-secure all loose light fixtures and ceiling fans
> •	Repair all broken or missing stairs. All missing or broken stairs shall be repaired or replaced, and all missing handrails shall be replaced as needed.
> •	Repair all broken or missing handrails
> •	Replace or repair all missing vent covers and open holes in the flooring
> •	Fill in or repair all large open holes in the yard
> •	Repair all trip hazards both in and out of the property.
> •	Secure all objects to the walls as appropriate, including shelves, cabinets, and drywall
> •	Remove all nails, hooks, and screws from walls
> •	Mitigate all minor health and safety hazards, including small areas of discoloration or mildew, rotting food in refrigerators, and other environmental hazards
> •	All missing switch plate and outlet covers shall be replaced.
> •	Trouble code areas with greater than 100 contiguous feet of discoloration.
> •	Replace missing light bulbs (every socket in every light fixture must have light bulb installed)
> •	Prevention of further moisture damage that may be caused by active roof or plumbing leaks at the property. All care should be given to any cause of moisture damage that may cause a further deterioration of the property, or to mitigate any type of damage that may be a safety or health hazard. Every effort must be made to match all roof repairs to the same or equivalent shingle that is on the roof at the time of repair. All active roof leaks must be repaired to prevent further moisture damage. Application of tarps may be utilized as a temporary measure while bids and approvals for needed repairs are pending.
> •	All missing or broken covers to circuit breaker or fuse box panels shall be replaced.
> •	All patios, porches, and decks shall be secured. Sufficient railings shall be installed should they be missing that would secure the area. Trip hazards shall be mitigated on all porches and decks, ensuring that there are not large open areas that would constitute a trip hazard.
> 
> All Health and Safety hazards are to be completed within 2 days of notice, and the completed work order including before and after digital photographs will be uploaded into Vorticity EMS within 1 days of completion. Please find a copy of the safety hazard checklist Fannie Mae uses at the bottom of this email.
> Safety Hazard Pricing Matrix
> Service	Pricing
> Tack Strip Removal	$55.00 per room
> Crawlspace Door (Hasp & Lock)	$40.00
> Electrical Panel Cover	$25.00
> Handrail Installation	$7.00 per lin. ft.
> Secure Handrail	$2.50 per lin. ft.
> Holes - Filing w/ Dirt or Concrete	$10.00 (5 gallon)
> Insect Extermination	provide pricing
> Lock Change (Door Knob)	$35.00
> Outlet and Switch Covers	$1.00 each
> Pad Locks	$20.00
> Step $20.00 per step
> Toilet Missing - Capping Sewer Line	$15.00 each
> Vent Covers	$15.00
> Water (Standing) - Pump Out	provide pricing
> Window Well Cover	$25.00 (over (2) is $10.00)
> Wire Capping	$1.00 per box
> Electrical or Fuse Panel Cover	$25.00
> Replace light bulbs	$1.00 per box of 4
> Install Blanks in Breaker	$4.00 per blank
> Gas Capping	$5.00 each
> Repair damaged hole in floor	$4.00 per sq. ft.
> Secure loose ceiling fan	$15.00 each
> Secure light fixtures	$15.00 each
> Secure loose cabinets, cabinet doors, drawers, countertops	$15.00 each
> Window locks	$15.00 each
> Transition strip $4.00 per lin. ft.


We will run them out of mich.:thumbsup:


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## Guest

Most of the stuff I see there is almost materials cost. I guess they expect you to work for free. How nice.


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## BPWY

Leo G said:


> Most of the stuff I see there is almost materials cost. I guess they expect you to work for free. How nice.








Welcome to what the world of P&P has become.
The only one making money is the national, rest assured.

Sure Fannie may put some pressure on the national to tighten up but they in turn put the 
screws to the contractors and take their pricing way below market pricing and way below even
break even pricing. 


If the economy had picked back up like president no nothing told us it was gonna and claimed it did
then these nationals wouldn't have a ready supply of out of work "contractors" with which they'd
bamboozle with their under the basement pricing pie in the sky promises. But as long as the job
market remains soft or looses jobs there will be plenty of guys that work for their rates in order to 
at least make beer money.


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## Gypsos

I only do routine maintenance and once the prices got to this level I told them I would not be doing them any longer. 

I got a call from a supervisor who wanted to know why and I explained that I was not going to jump on a grenade every time I went to a new property and fix a bunch of issues at below my cost that should have been corrected before I was assigned the property. 

I told them I would document them and report them, but it was up to them to figure out how they get fixed. I offered to bid on the work, but told them that I would quit doing that if the bids never got approved. 

They decided that I could document and report and they would get someone else to fix them.


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## Guest

What I don't understand is you know this. You know you can't make money on this. You know that they aren't going to pay you a fair value for your labor, yet you continue in this field and complain about it.

Take you skills and do something else. Something that is respected and pays you what you are worth. At some point in time these PP manager companies are going to have to realize that they people who they can attract aren't worth the pittance they are offering.

Why stick it out and get the shaft?


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## Guest

REOSPECIALAGENT said:


> We will run them out of mich.:thumbsup:


That's our plan. They got pretty big shoes to fill here. Michigan is a different animal imo


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## BPWY

Leo G said:


> What I don't understand is you know this. You know you can't make money on this. You know that they aren't going to pay you a fair value for your labor, yet you continue in this field and complain about it.
> 
> Take you skills and do something else. Something that is respected and pays you what you are worth. At some point in time these PP manager companies are going to have to realize that they people who they can attract aren't worth the pittance they are offering.
> 
> Why stick it out and get the shaft?






I have. I've got a damn good thing going with local lawn care.
My company landed three of the top five largest apartment complexes in town. The losers last year make it so easy for my company to look good.
We maybe able to nail down three year contacts this fall they are so happy with us.

Along with other local work.

Only problem is that the winters are really long and snow is uncertain.
When it does snow we make good money.


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## SwiftRes

I am guessing this is not national pricing as I get more than this from nationals. this is a regional copying and pasting a nationals price list and putting lower pricing in. Any one of us could do the same thing. I don't think a regional cutting pricing to make their middle man cut is a representation of the industry.

Edit: doing this from my phone. Now notice this is ams. crazy.


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## Guest

damaton said:


> For sorry suckers to lose their @ss trying to do their work. Remember guys this is before the 20% BS made up discount. Good Luck!!
> 
> It is extremely important to ensure that all Fannie Mae properties are free of health and safety hazards. It is our job to keep these properties safe and hazard free. Please identify any health and safety conditions at time of Initial Services and remediate immediately. If you are a Routine Contractor and notice any of these hazards please address at time of routine services. Update Vorticity EMS with photographs of completion of the remedial action.
> Health and Safety Hazards and their remedies Include, but are not limited to, the following items:
> •	Ensure all broken glass is removed
> •	Replace all missing switch plate and outlet covers, both inside and outside of the home
> •	Cap all exposed wiring: All electrical wires that are unsecured or uncapped will be secured, and all exposed wiring shall be capped.
> •	Re-secure all loose light fixtures and ceiling fans
> •	Repair all broken or missing stairs. All missing or broken stairs shall be repaired or replaced, and all missing handrails shall be replaced as needed.
> •	Repair all broken or missing handrails
> •	Replace or repair all missing vent covers and open holes in the flooring
> •	Fill in or repair all large open holes in the yard
> •	Repair all trip hazards both in and out of the property.
> •	Secure all objects to the walls as appropriate, including shelves, cabinets, and drywall
> •	Remove all nails, hooks, and screws from walls
> •	Mitigate all minor health and safety hazards, including small areas of discoloration or mildew, rotting food in refrigerators, and other environmental hazards
> •	All missing switch plate and outlet covers shall be replaced.
> •	Trouble code areas with greater than 100 contiguous feet of discoloration.
> •	Replace missing light bulbs (every socket in every light fixture must have light bulb installed)
> •	Prevention of further moisture damage that may be caused by active roof or plumbing leaks at the property. All care should be given to any cause of moisture damage that may cause a further deterioration of the property, or to mitigate any type of damage that may be a safety or health hazard. Every effort must be made to match all roof repairs to the same or equivalent shingle that is on the roof at the time of repair. All active roof leaks must be repaired to prevent further moisture damage. Application of tarps may be utilized as a temporary measure while bids and approvals for needed repairs are pending.
> •	All missing or broken covers to circuit breaker or fuse box panels shall be replaced.
> •	All patios, porches, and decks shall be secured. Sufficient railings shall be installed should they be missing that would secure the area. Trip hazards shall be mitigated on all porches and decks, ensuring that there are not large open areas that would constitute a trip hazard.
> 
> All Health and Safety hazards are to be completed within 2 days of notice, and the completed work order including before and after digital photographs will be uploaded into Vorticity EMS within 1 days of completion. Please find a copy of the safety hazard checklist Fannie Mae uses at the bottom of this email.
> Safety Hazard Pricing Matrix
> Service	Pricing
> Tack Strip Removal	$55.00 per room
> Crawlspace Door (Hasp & Lock)	$40.00
> Electrical Panel Cover	$25.00
> Handrail Installation	$7.00 per lin. ft.
> Secure Handrail	$2.50 per lin. ft.
> Holes - Filing w/ Dirt or Concrete	$10.00 (5 gallon)
> Insect Extermination	provide pricing
> Lock Change (Door Knob)	$35.00
> Outlet and Switch Covers	$1.00 each
> Pad Locks	$20.00
> Step $20.00 per step
> Toilet Missing - Capping Sewer Line	$15.00 each
> Vent Covers	$15.00
> Water (Standing) - Pump Out	provide pricing
> Window Well Cover	$25.00 (over (2) is $10.00)
> Wire Capping	$1.00 per box
> Electrical or Fuse Panel Cover	$25.00
> Replace light bulbs	$1.00 per box of 4
> Install Blanks in Breaker	$4.00 per blank
> Gas Capping	$5.00 each
> Repair damaged hole in floor	$4.00 per sq. ft.
> Secure loose ceiling fan	$15.00 each
> Secure light fixtures	$15.00 each
> Secure loose cabinets, cabinet doors, drawers, countertops	$15.00 each
> Window locks	$15.00 each
> Transition strip $4.00 per lin. ft.


you got to provide material for this too? So someone can call you out and say we need a 10 foot handrail build out of pressure treated lumber and you got to provide all the lumber, nails or screws and build it for 70 bucks?


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> I have. I've got a damn good thing going with local lawn care.
> My company landed three of the top five largest apartment complexes in town. The losers last year make it so easy for my company to look good.
> We maybe able to nail down three year contacts this fall they are so happy with us.
> 
> Along with other local work.
> 
> Only problem is that the winters are really long and snow is uncertain.
> When it does snow we make good money.


That is the silver linging to working with reo. It is so difficult that it makes you stronger and so much more competitive than others.


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## BPWY

SwiftRes said:


> I am guessing this is not national pricing as I get more than this from nationals. this is a regional copying and pasting a nationals price list and putting lower pricing in. Any one of us could do the same thing. I don't think a regional cutting pricing to make their middle man cut is a representation of the industry.
> 
> Edit: doing this from my phone. Now notice this is ams. crazy.






Oh yeah, that is representative of working for nationals on Fannie properties.


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## Gypsos

SwiftRes said:


> I am guessing this is not national pricing as I get more than this from nationals. this is a regional copying and pasting a nationals price list and putting lower pricing in. Any one of us could do the same thing. I don't think a regional cutting pricing to make their middle man cut is a representation of the industry.
> 
> Edit: doing this from my phone. Now notice this is ams. crazy.


Actually is better than what Cyprexx is paying right now.


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## GTX63

bluebird5 said:


> you got to provide material for this too? So someone can call you out and say we need a 10 foot handrail build out of pressure treated lumber and you got to provide all the lumber, nails or screws and build it for 70 bucks?


That is before they take their discount.


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## Guest

GTX63 said:


> That is before they take their discount.


seems rediculous to let someone tell you what they will pay you to do the work. I don't go out to a bid and ask the customer what they will give me to do the work. I tell them what i charge and they can take it or leave it.


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## Guest

bluebird5 said:


> seems rediculous to let someone tell you what they will pay you to do the work. I don't go out to a bid and ask the customer what they will give me to do the work. I tell them what i charge and they can take it or leave it.


I think it got that way gradually. Kind of like going down a slippery slope.


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## Guest

bluebird5 said:


> you got to provide material for this too? So someone can call you out and say we need a 10 foot handrail build out of pressure treated lumber and you got to provide all the lumber, nails or screws and build it for 70 bucks?


Actually. That number is before their 20% discount. So the end price including all materials and labor is 5.60lf. You cannot even buy handrail for that for the most part. Welcome to our hell.


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## Guest

You can't fix stupid.


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## Guest

5.60 a linear foot? **** AMS only pays 2.25 a lf and I thought that was good. I only paid $2 for a 8 ft piece of 2x4.


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## Guest

Think the main point in all of this bs prices is that when I started about 8 years ago we charged $10 a ft and we had no discount. I remember when lawn where all around 65 and up with no discount.

We didn't have the volume back then but I made a lot more profit with very little work


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## Tom Stuble

then i'm glad it changed:thumbsup:


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## david

*hi*

if contractors would stop doing work things would change,i only do jobs that are profitable,if they see you'll work for nearly nothing,rest assured prices will keep going down


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## Guest

Are you guys replacing deck railing for $7lf? the list states HANDRAIL not GUARDRAIL. There is a difference in the codes and you should be clear on that. a HANDRAIL is a round (or square, or profile shaped) graspable handrail to assist in using stairs, a handrail is ONLY on stairs, and NEVER on flat areas of a deck or home. Whereas a GUARDRAIL is for FALL prevention. Make sure they fully understand there is a difference and charge accordingly.


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## Guest

They don't do anything to code, its more of a guardrail than anything. The nationals are above code or so they think. They have no idea what needs to be completed they don't install spindles or anything. By code all handrail need a return on them and by code in michigan a 2x4 doesn't pass because you can't grab it, it needs to be smaller.

I'm fine with the pay for installing the handrail, but it just doesn't make sense to do hr of paperwork plus damage reports to send in you $35 repair. Plus sometimes you may have hr of travel time. You don't make a dime on that stuff.

I no longer do the small stuff and routines we only complete insurance, high risk, and repairs. you can still make a little profit on that, but not like it was a couple years ago.


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## Guest

I once had a yelling match with somebody at ams about code, and he keep telling me that fredde mac doesn't care about code violations because they can't fine themselves. I just kept telling him fred mac doesn't issue code violations the local government does, he said I was wrong and they would never issue a fine to themselves. Fast forward 2 months later the house gets slam with code violations, and the city orders to demo it. It was nice getting the 15k order to demo the house, I love it when they mess up because its a win for me.


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## Gypsos

On the rare ocassion I do some sort of repair, I explain to them in great detail the materials to be used and what is being installed and how. 

I usually quote the applicable building codes in my quote. This makes it harder for them to argue. 

They also know that to argue with me means they will be hiring someone else.


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## GTX63

d+jhomeservices said:


> if contractors would stop doing work things would change,i only do jobs that are profitable,if they see you'll work for nearly nothing,rest assured prices will keep going down


Many times, moreso lately, it isn't contractors as we know them that are doing these jobs.


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## Guest

So did everybody get the email, another price change.


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## HollandPPC

wmhlc said:


> So did everybody get the email, another price change.


I did. Holy crap what a joke. $75.0 WNTz before 20% discount.


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## RKRM

We must have been making to much money before this is what the a$$ clowns sent me


Initial Winterization - Due 24 hours
(Contact AMS for Wet/Steam system add’ pricing)$70.00

Landscaping Initial – Due 72 hours (Up to 1 Acre)$85.00

Initial Trash-Out (up to 35 cubic yards) – Due 72 hours
(20.00 a cubic yard over 35 yards)$290.00

Cleaning Initial / Fine Clean – Due 72 hours
(Goal of Broker Score higher than 3.5 average)$110.00

Total Initial Service Fee $555.00

Routine Cleaning – Every 25 Days / as needed $19.00
Routine Lawn / Snow - Every xx Days / seasonal
(AMS will distribute Schedule Monthly – listed Price per visit)$30.00


I HOPE THEY HAVE NO ONE ON GAME DAY


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## Guest

What state are those prices from? I'm in grand rapids michigan and we are at $640 for everything inital. Still can't make money. They added $5 to the routine clean for a total of $20 bucks. Have no idea how you can make a profit at that price. Routine lawn went down to 30 that's really pushing it.


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## HollandPPC

RKRM said:


> We must have been making to much money before this is what the a$$ clowns sent me
> 
> Initial Winterization - Due 24 hours
> (Contact AMS for Wet/Steam system add’ pricing)$70.00
> 
> Landscaping Initial – Due 72 hours (Up to 1 Acre)$85.00
> 
> Initial Trash-Out (up to 35 cubic yards) – Due 72 hours
> (20.00 a cubic yard over 35 yards)$290.00
> 
> Cleaning Initial / Fine Clean – Due 72 hours
> (Goal of Broker Score higher than 3.5 average)$110.00
> 
> Total Initial Service Fee $555.00
> 
> Routine Cleaning – Every 25 Days / as needed $19.00
> Routine Lawn / Snow - Every xx Days / seasonal
> (AMS will distribute Schedule Monthly – listed Price per visit)$30.00
> 
> I HOPE THEY HAVE NO ONE ON GAME DAY


I am referencing MI.


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## RKRM

Am I the only one that got these  prices are they trying to S%#t on me even more? Or did they send this to all MI contractors I am also from MI east side of the state. The funny thing is I never told them I agreed to there first pricing 3 weeks ago that they sent me and they keep sending me there garbage. At these rates they better get " there boots on the ground" ready to go who in the world is going to do this for that price. They may want to place another 50 dump truck order to GM because they are going to be busy:laughing::laughing:


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## Guest

I think they sent it to everybody. They also increased the service area to 100miles from home base. Nothing better than 2hrs of drive time for $19 bucks 1hr of work and 20mins of updating. What's that $5 bucks an hr, huge money maker.


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## BPWY

wmhlc said:


> So did everybody get the email, another price change.






But you'll make it up in quantity.


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## Guest

RKRM said:


> Am I the only one that got these  prices are they trying to S%#t on me even more? Or did they send this to all MI contractors I am also from MI east side of the state. The funny thing is I never told them I agreed to there first pricing 3 weeks ago that they sent me and they keep sending me there garbage. At these rates they better get " there boots on the ground" ready to go who in the world is going to do this for that price. They may want to place another 50 dump truck order to GM because they are going to be busy:laughing::laughing:


No. We are in the Flint area and we got the same ones. The recurring went up like $3. Wooooofkinghoooo

They will have no one reputable come wed. And the jabrones they get wont make it a month. Not with some of us doing QC inspections for FNMA:whistling


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> But you'll make it up in quantity.


This is really a good thing. There really is a limit in the race to the bottom. 
In a few months nothing will be getting done. There will be even more cheating and poorly done work with trash hidden everywhere, appliances stolen etc. a major increase in problems for these companies. They must be hemoraging cash with so many office people on payroll. They cannot react to the recent drop in volume as quickly as a small company. It will take them at least a few weeks to lay people off. 
This will accelerate the demise of these companies. Honestly no one is missing anything since there is little reo work anyway.(at least in CA and Nevada) Time to move on. 

"Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered"


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> But you'll make it up in quantity.


I guess you did not read the second page. "If you would like to provide lower pricing in lieu of increased volume please submit to....."


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## Guest

"Provide lower pricing?" 

:laughinglease tell me you were kidding? 

I dare say -they have gone completely irrevocably and comprehensively daft!


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## HollandPPC

damaton said:


> No. We are in the Flint area and we got the same ones. The recurring went up like $3. Wooooofkinghoooo
> 
> They will have no one reputable come wed. And the jabrones they get wont make it a month. Not with some of us doing QC inspections for FNMA:whistling


Same here we are doing 27 counties QC for FNMA. I feel sorry for these poor "contractors".


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## JDRM

wmhlc said:


> What state are those prices from? I'm in grand rapids michigan and we are at $640 for everything inital. Still can't make money. They added $5 to the routine clean for a total of $20 bucks. Have no idea how you can make a profit at that price. Routine lawn went down to 30 that's really pushing it.


Thats before discount, 30 lawns - 20% = $24.00 per cut, I told them no.:no: Its too bad! The sad part is people are gonna try and sub that work out!


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## JDRM

BPWY said:


> But you'll make it up in quantity.




LMAO!!! Thats what they say too! Its the VOLUME that pays. What joke!


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## Guest

JDRM said:


> Thats before discount, 30 lawns - 20% = $24.00 per cut, I told them no.:no: Its too bad! The sad part is people are gonna try and sub that work out!


 i am seeing alot of ads on craigslist for reo contractors 
i got the a pricing matrix from one of them 
i was tempted to call them and ask if they were on dope lol 
but i deleted all their pdf documents instead 
its too bad i would have loved to have been in the business when it was good 
oh well 
good luck guys


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## Guest

That seems to be the problem. There seems to be a dozen guys in this deal, each one is subbing it out to the next and skimming a little profit off the top. I imagine the top guy is paying a buttload of money for this work to get done and by the time the actual work gets done they guy actually doing it is making peanuts. So everybody but the worker is getting a good deal.


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## RKRM

So what does everyone think? Do you think they will come around and pay accordingly for the work? or do you think they will stick to there prices. If 10 of us cant do the work for that you would think those fd prices will not work for anyone??


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## GTX63

RKRM said:


> So what does everyone think? Do you think they will come around and pay accordingly for the work?


No.


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## BPWY

BPWY said:


> But you'll make it up in quantity.






I was being facetious. Repeating their BS line.


Hell if you loose money on one job doing 30 for the same price means you just lost
money on 30 jobs. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.


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## BPWY

> Originally Posted by damaton
> 
> No. We are in the Flint area and we got the same ones. The recurring went up like $3. Wooooofkinghoooo
> 
> They will have no one reputable come wed. And the jabrones they get wont make it a month. Not with some of us doing QC inspections for FNMA





HollandPPC said:


> Same here we are doing 27 counties QC for FNMA. I feel sorry for these poor "contractors".







You are only fooling yourselves if you think they'll listen to the QC inspector.
I failed and failed and failed properties when I was doing QCs thru NVMS and NMS. 
Same contractor would screw things up...... over and over and over.
They won't fire them.


----------



## Guest

BPWY said:


> You are only fooling yourselves if you think they'll listen to the QC inspector.
> I failed and failed and failed properties when I was doing QCs thru NVMS and NMS.
> Same contractor would screw things up...... over and over and over.
> They won't fire them.


First, 100% disagree. FNMA already kicked AMS out if Indiana for poor performance. I don't know who or what your inspections were for, but FNMA's 3rd party fee inspectors input is critical to the performance rating of AMS. 

I just want them out of MI. Its time for us MI contractors to tighten up, educate everyone we can about their horrible pay matrix and bad business practices and run them out of MI. We need to educate even the newest of contractor first before they make it the 30 days and quit from realizing what we already know. I've posted before that I don't know to complexity or size of most of the people on here but we have been in the industry since 2001. We have over 25 employees in 2 states. Do all work in house. Seen ups and downs. Seen nationals come and go. I'm not gonna sit on my hands and just post how bad it sucks on forums for others to get n on the pity party. There's things we can all do collectively to change things. We just have to do it. Please don't post on how there's no way and we are just wasting our time. We don't need anything right now except positive support. I hope anyone who is anyone here will tell AMS to pound sand on this project and educate others on why its not feasible to do the work for this. 

OK lol. Back to bed


----------



## HollandPPC

damaton said:


> First, 100% disagree. FNMA already kicked AMS out if Indiana for poor performance. I don't know who or what your inspections were for, but FNMA's 3rd party fee inspectors input is critical to the performance rating of AMS.
> 
> I just want them out of MI. Its time for us MI contractors to tighten up, educate everyone we can about their horrible pay matrix and bad business practices and run them out of MI. We need to educate even the newest of contractor first before they make it the 30 days and quit from realizing what we already know. I've posted before that I don't know to complexity or size of most of the people on here but we have been in the industry since 2001. We have over 25 employees in 2 states. Do all work in house. Seen ups and downs. Seen nationals come and go. I'm not gonna sit on my hands and just post how bad it sucks on forums for others to get n on the pity party. There's things we can all do collectively to change things. We just have to do it. Please don't post on how there's no way and we are just wasting our time. We don't need anything right now except positive support. I hope anyone who is anyone here will tell AMS to pound sand on this project and educate others on why its not feasible to do the work for this.
> 
> OK lol. Back to bed


You are wasting your time thinking contractors will unite and set the big bad AMS straight. You are truly living in a fantasy land if you believe that everyone will band together. On the positive side thanks for the good laugh.


----------



## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> You are wasting your time thinking contractors will unite and set the big bad AMS straight. You are truly living in a fantasy land if you believe that everyone will band together. On the positive side thanks for the good laugh.


I feel for you man. Hopefully you are not struggling and will continue to thrive over there. Or maybe this is side work for you and you have something else steady you do.


----------



## BPWY

BPWY said:


> You are only fooling yourselves if you think they'll listen to the QC inspector.
> I failed and failed and failed properties when I was doing QCs thru NVMS and NMS.
> Same contractor would screw things up...... over and over and over.
> They won't fire them.





damaton said:


> First, 100% disagree. FNMA already kicked AMS out if Indiana for poor performance. I don't know who or what your inspections were for, but FNMA's 3rd party fee inspectors input is critical to the performance rating of AMS.
> 
> I just want them out of MI. Its time for us MI contractors to tighten up, educate everyone we can about their horrible pay matrix and bad business practices and run them out of MI. We need to educate even the newest of contractor first before they make it the 30 days and quit from realizing what we already know. I've posted before that I don't know to complexity or size of most of the people on here but we have been in the industry since 2001. We have over 25 employees in 2 states. Do all work in house. Seen ups and downs. Seen nationals come and go. I'm not gonna sit on my hands and just post how bad it sucks on forums for others to get n on the pity party. There's things we can all do collectively to change things. We just have to do it. Please don't post on how there's no way and we are just wasting our time. We don't need anything right now except positive support. I hope anyone who is anyone here will tell AMS to pound sand on this project and educate others on why its not feasible to do the work for this.
> 
> OK lol. Back to bed





HollandPPC said:


> You are wasting your time thinking contractors will unite and set the big bad AMS straight. You are truly living in a fantasy land if you believe that everyone will band together. On the positive side thanks for the good laugh.





Damaton you are entitled to your opinion of the QC process.
All I stated was what my experience was.

And I agree with Holland. You may get 2 or 3 or even 5 contractors in an area to band together to fight the man. But they'll manage to find some poor slug that is out of work and desperate to pay bills. All your work stoppage will be in vain.

I'd highly suggest diversifying your business and making P&P work only part of what you do. 
Other wise like so many many other folks have found out the hard way....... one day it goes away and leaves you in a terrible bind.


----------



## GTX63

We have done hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue per national in years past. But it is past. This is not a cradle to grave industry. You can be a plumber for 50 years and the business will stay the same. Drywall, framing, roofing, etc, do not change. The customer calls, you bid your price, they yay or nay, repeat. 
The REO/Preservation industry is evolving constantly; it is not a static market. You need to be looking ahead for new market opportunities right now because I can confidently predict there will be few, if any current forum members in the same business by 2015. It was a side business for us in 2003 and I made sure it never overtook us and made us a slave to their demands. 
There is no longer any way to make a profitable go at this using competent help and high quality standards.
Not meant to be negative or whiny, just realistic.


----------



## Guest

scutrman said:


> I guess you did not read the second page. "If you would like to provide lower pricing in lieu of increased volume please submit to....."


That was my favorite part as well. It gave me a serious chuckle. Some moron will do it, and FNM will continue to paint them into a corner and intimidate the nationals.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Damaton you are entitled to your opinion of the QC process.
> All I stated was what my experience was.
> 
> And I agree with Holland. You may get 2 or 3 or even 5 contractors in an area to band together to fight the man. But they'll manage to find some poor slug that is out of work and desperate to pay bills. All your work stoppage will be in vain.
> 
> I'd highly suggest diversifying your business and making P&P work only part of what you do.
> Other wise like so many many other folks have found out the hard way....... one day it goes away and leaves you in a terrible bind.


Oh it is we are like you. Been a commercial cutter for 11 years


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## HollandPPC

Got my first W/O from AMS. They told me I need to drive to their satellite office and pick up a five gallon bucket of Vaseline. The crappy part is they are back charging me $75.00 though. On the bright side there is no discount on the $75.00.


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## GTX63

Funny how chargebacks usually show up on your checks right away. The actual payments still takes 60.


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## REO2Rentals

HollandPPC said:


> Got my first W/O from AMS. They told me I need to drive to their satellite office and pick up a five gallon bucket of Vaseline. The crappy part is they are back charging me $75.00 though. On the bright side there is no discount on the $75.00.


Have you agreed to their pricing?


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## HollandPPC

MichiganREO said:


> Have you agreed to their pricing?


No I did not. They keep spamming the piss out of me with e-mail though.


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## Guest

*Ask for more, they pay..*

Just wanted to let every one know! AMS price matrix is set up to see if contractors will do it for that. (TIP) When you receive work orders that are over 5 cyds of debris, tell them you need boots on the ground to complete that property. They will call you back and offer you more money.
Accept no less than $18.00 cyds for debris. I average $900.00 per property. The more pictures = more money. Take hundreds, upsets them
because it takes 3 times longer to process. Beat them at their picture game.


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## GTX63

$18 cyd?


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## Guest

How can I help?


----------



## Guest

Yea I have done this they will pay I have gotten bobcats brush hogs etc. 
I cant move 30000 lbs of logs ,cement, shingles for 16 a cyd. I agree reo pro hold out and they will pay more


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## Guest

ditto.... $18/cyd? Insane when they receive $50.


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## GTX63

We don't even respond to companies offering that kind of rate. That is at or below cost for the majority of contractors here. Not worth the time or the risk.


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## Guest

any suggestions on grass they have want me to do about 45 cuts at 22.00 each 1/2 or more are acres and they are spread out all over the place I can make no money that way????????


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## GTX63

The best and only suggestion I have is that you charge what you need to cover your overhead costs and still show enough profit to make it worth your time and effort. If they can't pay a living wage for competent work then they are wasting your time.


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## Guest

I get $38.00 per cut. I only accept 20 per city at a time. All my cuts are within a 8 minute radius. I get $52.00 on out of route cuts.


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## thanohano44

reo-pro said:


> I get $38.00 per cut. I only accept 20 per city at a time. All my cuts are within a 8 minute radius. I get $52.00 on out of route cuts.


I get $215 per monthly routine. Insp, grass and maid from them.


----------



## Guest

What do you get per cyds on debris?


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## HollandPPC

reo-pro said:


> What do you get per cyds on debris?


$2.50 before discount.


----------



## thanohano44

reo-pro said:


> What do you get per cyds on debris?


$50 before discount.


----------



## thanohano44

reo-pro said:


> What do you get per cyds on debris?


I'm also a full time and vendor that turns their work away until I get what I want. But due to my location, I can do that. When I was doing work in Phoenix for them, not so much.


----------



## Guest

what are dump costs like in AZ?


----------



## Guest

Every body should post cdys pay for different states.


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## thanohano44

property pro said:


> what are dump costs like in AZ?


Depends on the dump and where. Minimum dump charge is $42 on avg. 

Some small landfills in the rural areas we cover it's $5 a load. 

Dumping paint, electronics etc costs more.


----------



## thanohano44

reo-pro said:


> Every body should post cdys pay for different states.


This is already listed by HUD.


----------



## Guest

yea it is posted by hud but there not paying that if everyone posts what there getting in each state then we will be able to figure out how much less than the national average they are paying across the board


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## thanohano44

property pro said:


> yea it is posted by hud but there not paying that if everyone posts what there getting in each state then we will be able to figure out how much less than the national average they are paying across the board


This should be state specific. You determine what you need. If they don't pay it. Don't do it.


----------



## REO2Rentals

thanohano44 said:


> Depends on the dump and where. Minimum dump charge is $42 on avg.
> 
> Some small landfills in the rural areas we cover it's $5 a load.
> 
> Dumping paint, electronics etc costs more.


Michigan is $120.00 per trailer load 6x12


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## Guest

what is ams trying to pay a yard in michigan?


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## Guest

they offered me $10 cyds. I'm getting $18.00, should be $35.00 cyds.


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## REO2Rentals

reo-pro said:


> they offered me $10 cyds. I'm getting $18.00, should be $35.00 cyds.


before disc. or after disc.


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## Guest

before, the next pig they send me to I'm holding out for min $25.00 cyds.
This bundle package is priced way to low.


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## Guest

what about hazards tires , oil etc. any one ran into thesee and been paid thru ams


----------



## thanohano44

reo-pro said:


> they offered me $10 cyds. I'm getting $18.00, should be $35.00 cyds.


change your name to REO hoe. no pro would work for that. just saying.


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## Guest

somebody will be cleaning out your house soon with that type of attitude


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## HollandPPC

thanohano44 said:


> change your name to REO hoe. no pro would work for that. just saying.


I will second that motion. This state is infested with FNGs that are completely oblivious to what running a real business is like.


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## Guest

Well that is all fine that you get 50 a yard in the middle of the desert but as we all know they are not offering that in Michigan. unfortunately there is a lot of contractors here and they are offering some of us less and were they come up with the average I believe is they called clean out guys on craigslist with no insurance, and they expect gas up front and the rest as soon as the job is complete because Michigan prices seem extremely low compared to your $50 a cyd. I mean what is a fair price Michigan 25 , 35 ,45


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## Guest

not only debris but all the way across the board winterize 
grass 
sales clean


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## HollandPPC

property pro said:


> not only debris but all the way across the board winterize
> grass
> sales clean


If the prices are too low and you cant make those rates work don't do it then. Simple enough right?


----------



## thanohano44

reo-pro said:


> somebody will be cleaning out your house soon with that type of attitude


Doubt it. I've been in this 8 years. This isn't all that I do. 

Someone will be cleaning out your house with that cheap labor you're accepting.


----------



## thanohano44

property pro said:


> Well that is all fine that you get 50 a yard in the middle of the desert but as we all know they are not offering that in Michigan. unfortunately there is a lot of contractors here and they are offering some of us less and were they come up with the average I believe is they called clean out guys on craigslist with no insurance, and they expect gas up front and the rest as soon as the job is complete because Michigan prices seem extremely low compared to your $50 a cyd. I mean what is a fair price Michigan 25 , 35 ,45


You don't work for a national or broker do you? Look up the HUD rates for your state. I know how hard this work is. You're shooting yourself in the foot and azz working for what you are. 

There is no way you can afford the insurance needed to run this business at those prices.


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## HollandPPC

View attachment 75904


I just passed reo pros work truck. That's how he can afford 18 a cube before discount.


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## Guest

At least I don't have payments, you're one of the smart one's that went out and bought new trucks etc. just to look good. huh/ lol


----------



## JDRM

I know this is off topic but I will ask anyway: 

Anyone have experience getting rid of dog/cat urine? I am dealing with a foreclosure I bought for dirt cheap, I think it is in the stick on tiles, or even sub floor. The tiles are a b*tch to remove anyway, and i would hate to remove all and still have problem if it is saturated into sub floor. Im thinking tearing out and replacing sub floor all together. Any suggestions?

Thanks


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## HollandPPC

reo-pro said:


> At least I don't have payments, you're one of the smart one's that went out and bought new trucks etc. just to look good. huh/ lol


Don't owe a penny on any equipment. I also don't work for unrealistic prices. Living the debt free way is the way to go in this industry.


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## thanohano44

property pro said:


> not only debris but all the way across the board winterize
> grass
> sales clean


You're a licensed plumber? you should be good with $400 wints. You do have a gas powered air compressor right?


----------



## Guest

:-0


----------



## thanohano44

Cruz @ ANDERCO said:


> Hey take it easy on the truck- We learned a thing or two about that last week.
> 
> One of my knuckleheads got our F450 stuck- 2011 gorgeous monster- I think it has dual zip codes- one for the cab- and one for the bed. (I love that truck)
> 
> One of the subs used a little 1985 toyota 2X4 with a 6 cyl to pull our big bad 4X4 F450 twin-turbo diesel Crew Cab out of the mud. :whistling.
> 
> Even worse- its about the same shape as the pic posted.
> 
> Yeah, he had the advantage of dry ground- an gooberlicious should not have put brandy new dually in the mud because his fat butt was too lazy to walk across the job site.  (Dude is never driving my baby again. EVER.)
> 
> Knocking ol boys' truck is just going a bit too far I think. If it works for him- that's good! More money for other stuff and not down a payment hole. (we snatch ours up at auction- cuz we're cheap too!)
> 
> Seabee motto- Use whatcha got! (and keep a tow strap handy!):thumbup:


Explain how and why you needed a 4x4 towed out of mud. I'm a Chevy guy and will lay off the ford jokes but please explain.


----------



## Guest




----------



## Guest

reo-pro said:


> somebody will be cleaning out your house soon with that type of attitude


Hey pro. Don't take it too personal here. But your friends on this board are speaking the truth to you. Vendors (maybe such as yourself), that are willing to do this work for nothing, and more often than not find "creative" ways of cuting costs, are a main reason why the banks and Fannie, can offer so little money to the nationwides, and then in turn why the nationwides will pass on that cut to you. 

It is a cycle most here have seen. You do not do your industry or anyone else any favors, by allowing yourself to be paid less than what is reasonable. History will also tell you, that is not a philosophy for longevity. It may get you through the month or the quarter, but there is an expiration date on lack of self worth.


----------



## Guest

reo-pro said:


> they offered me $10 cyds. I'm getting $18.00, should be $35.00 cyds.


How are you making money?? What is your bottom line?You must not have insurance,you are proally one man show and wow you are treading a fine line of a business structure and module


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## HollandPPC

MKM Landscaping said:


> How are you making money?? What is your bottom line?You must not have insurance,you are proally one man show and wow you are treading a fine line of a business structure and module


I put a pic of his rig on here. Did you not see?


----------



## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> I put a pic of his rig on here. Did you not see?


LOL I did but even $18.00 can not pay for PM on that truck


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## Guest

MKM Landscaping said:


> LOL I did but even $18.00 can not pay for PM on that truck


Actually my bad he proally does not know what PM because he proally has no idea what DOT is or regulation's


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## Guest

But hopefully he is making enough for a tow strap in case


----------



## Guest

It cost me a little over $7 a yrd to dispose... Not including labor, wear and tear , gas ,insurance etc. I'd laugh my ass off if someone told me $18 a yrd. I never charge less than $30 and bid everything at $45 and I'm in Michigan. Your not making anything no matter how many jobs you get at those prices.


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## Guest

Rip on this! When I first started doing property preservation work 4 years ago, I was getting $52.75 per cyd. $5.75 per gal of paint, chemicals etc.
$10.00 per gallon of oil, $12.50 per tire. They just don't pay that any more. They have cut our costs to the point were I can't sub out work any more. Now it's all in house. Back to the $18.00 per cyds for removal, that was 1 job. Today we completed 3 work orders, all 3 payed $25.00 cyds, plus bobcat rental for 1 ( $850.00) The message I was trying to get across earlier was to hold out till they pay more.


----------



## brm1109

*Disposal*

Here in NJ disposal goes anywhere from $80 - $120.00 per ton. With a minimum of $65.00.
I have to pay 7-8 per tire and paints can cost up to $11.00 per gallon.
That is why I will not do any job that pays under $32.00 per CYD.
I laugh when companies call and offer $18-20.00 CYD. No thanks have some unlicensed and uninsured hack do it. This way when they get caught dumping and get fined $5k it will be one less competitor.


----------



## Guest

reo-pro said:


> Rip on this! When I first started doing property preservation work 4 years ago, I was getting $52.75 per cyd. $5.75 per gal of paint, chemicals etc.
> $10.00 per gallon of oil, $12.50 per tire. They just don't pay that any more. They have cut our costs to the point were I can't sub out work any more. Now it's all in house. Back to the $18.00 per cyds for removal, that was 1 job. Today we completed 3 work orders, all 3 payed $25.00 cyds, plus bobcat rental for 1 ( $850.00) The message I was trying to get across earlier was to hold out till they pay more.


Do you know what it cost you per cyrd to dispose? You have to know what it truly cost you before you can accept work and make a profit. That's all I'm saying. I can't make any profit at $18 and $25 is still a slap on the face. And yes there are still clients that will pay enough to really make a profit.


----------



## Guest

It costs me $50.00 per 20 cyds at the pit. I got the license, wc, lia, e&o just like the rest of you. If my pit costs were more, they would have to pay more. If I conducted business were the costs are more, I would charge more. I make more money doing the safety issues, repairs etc.
The debris is something you have to due.


----------



## thanohano44

reo-pro said:


> It costs me $50.00 per 20 cyds at the pit. I got the license, wc, lia, e&o just like the rest of you. If my pit costs were more, they would have to pay more. If I conducted business were the costs are more, I would charge more. I make more money doing the safety issues, repairs etc.
> The debris is something you have to due.


Spell check. It's do not due. I think you need to find some new "they's" or "them".


----------



## Guest

Agreed I have made more money in the safety issues and repairs over my 3 years in business than I have lugging the debris. The debris is something you have to do and I just need to get my price high enough on debris that I can make a little not let them keep me so low that I have to take money from my safety hazards and repairs to cover my backside on debris. The repairs and safety is where the moneys at everyone who is hung up on debris being there money maker must not have the skill to install simple hand rails and do routine plumbing repairs or other misc repairs that take less time and effort make 10 fold in closing I think if we just stick to our guns and demand what ever price you have to have on debris then everyone will benefit and they will pay more.


----------



## HollandPPC

thanohano44 said:


> Spell check. It's do not due. I think you need to find some new "they's" or "them".


My summary is he is FNG 32,574 on the forum and Hack 54,362 in Michigan. I just sent him his vendor ID, hopefully he got it.


----------



## BPWY

JDRM said:


> I know this is off topic but I will ask anyway:
> 
> Anyone have experience getting rid of dog/cat urine? I am dealing with a foreclosure I bought for dirt cheap, I think it is in the stick on tiles, or even sub floor. The tiles are a b*tch to remove anyway, and i would hate to remove all and still have problem if it is saturated into sub floor. Im thinking tearing out and replacing sub floor all together. Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks






Fremont has the 411 on those type of questions.
He should be along soon. 
He usually checks in once a day.


----------



## Gypsos

One of my routine lawns has a very large and very dead oak tree in it that sheds limbs and spanish moss by the truck load after every storm. 

Last week there was about 4 cy of limbs and moss. No way I am hauling that off as part of routine lawn cut so I piled it up and sent pics in asking what they want done for it. 

Coordinator got a bit pissy and said it should be part of routine visit. I said if he wasn't paying I would gladly toss it to the curb and we could see if the trash service would haul it off. 

Normally that is a big fat no, but he surprised me and said do it. I happen to know that if the realtor sees it there she will have a fit. So next week it gets piled curbside. 

Truth is I would rather do that than haul it off anyway so it is a win for me because they never want to pay decent for this type of thing.


----------



## Guest

Not spelled wrong. If you don't do the DUE-You have to give to get. Hello


----------



## Guest

I just dont understand why everyone is so hung up on debris prices Here is the perfect scenario of a job I did last week went to the property house was full of mold completed no interior services got a 20 cyd pool hole filled with dirt, got the grass cut and I was paid for a brush hog and bobcat 
job paid 2460.00 and I only paid out 550.00 to get it done using subs and there equipment Profit $1910.00 Did not move any debris. Dont even want to move it even at 50.00 a cyd there is not money like this in moving debris.


----------



## GTX63

The new folks are hung up on the debris because they either don't understand how to make money or they can't figure out that they are losing money. Sounds like some of these guys don't have the confidence to step out on their own so they pimp out to the service companies for whatever bowl of turds got left on the table. $10, $18, $25 cyds? My god people. Reminds me of the WW2 movies where the baby faced recruits coming walking past the vets on the beaches at Normandy. Not a clue.


----------



## Guest

property pro said:


> I just dont understand why everyone is so hung up on debris prices Here is the perfect scenario of a job I did last week went to the property house was full of mold completed no interior services got a 20 cyd pool hole filled with dirt, got the grass cut and I was paid for a brush hog and bobcat
> job paid 2460.00 and I only paid out 550.00 to get it done using subs and there equipment Profit $1910.00 Did not move any debris. Dont even want to move it even at 50.00 a cyd there is not money like this in moving debris.


Well first off the ones who completed the work should make the majority of the money. Hope your subs aren't on here looking.:blink: Second I can turn that $50 into a nice profit using employees. Are you a regional trying to get rich of the backs of the working men and women? There is no hang up on debris or any other service, either you bid enough to cover cost + material+ overhead+ profit or you don't. Doesn't matter what the job is.


----------



## SwiftRes

mbobbish734 said:


> Well first off the ones who completed the work should make the majority of the money. Hope your subs aren't on here looking.:blink: Second I can turn that $50 into a nice profit using employees. Are you a regional trying to get rich of the backs of the working men and women? There is no hang up on debris or any other service, either you bid enough to cover cost + material+ overhead+ profit or you don't. Doesn't matter what the job is.


Mbobbish, when your employees do the work, are they making majority of the money, since they are the ones completing the work?


----------



## Guest

SwiftRes said:


> Mbobbish, when your employees do the work, are they making majority of the money, since they are the ones completing the work?


It's a total different game with employees vs subs, you should know that. An employee gets a guaranteed check and I take the risk. Using a sub of a sub of a sub ... Who gets screwed in the end if no one pays? Since when is it standard business practice to make a 300% profit on service?


----------



## SwiftRes

I agree it's a different game, but anytime I've subbed out jobs, I've never had their pay based on whether or not I get paid, I don't think that's right, in most situations(their direct fault). I don't sub a significant amount, though. I am sure that his example is not what he's doing on a daily basis, but an exception. His point was that the bulk of the money is not made in debris, but doing other work, which I'd agree with. But on the topic of $/cyd here, I think there's a whole other piece that's missing, which is how strict they are on cube counts. I have had some places(lower on the pay spectrum) that pretty well has agreed with my cube counts on 100% of jobs(we all round up to CYA don't we?). I have also had the higher paying ones go through photo by photo with me on why my cube count was wrong. Honestly in the end that can make a $5/cube difference or better. 

I'm sure we've all had some 300% profit jobs. If you get a bid approval for $1k that you're too busy to handle, and decide to sub, and they bid $250, would you offer them more? Not every job is going to be exactly some target % of margin, but you will have some 80% margin jobs as well as some 20% margin jobs that will even out in the end.


----------



## Guest

SwiftRes said:


> I agree it's a different game, but anytime I've subbed out jobs, I've never had their pay based on whether or not I get paid, I don't think that's right, in most situations(their direct fault). I don't sub a significant amount, though. I am sure that his example is not what he's doing on a daily basis, but an exception. His point was that the bulk of the money is not made in debris, but doing other work, which I'd agree with. But on the topic of $/cyd here, I think there's a whole other piece that's missing, which is how strict they are on cube counts. I have had some places(lower on the pay spectrum) that pretty well has agreed with my cube counts on 100% of jobs(we all round up to CYA don't we?). I have also had the higher paying ones go through photo by photo with me on why my cube count was wrong. Honestly in the end that can make a $5/cube difference or better.
> 
> I'm sure we've all had some 300% profit jobs. If you get a bid approval for $1k that you're too busy to handle, and decide to sub, and they bid $250, would you offer them more? Not every job is going to be exactly some target % of margin, but you will have some 80% margin jobs as well as some 20% margin jobs that will even out in the end.


That is true. What I'm saying if he's trying to get 300% on everything someone is being taken advantage of. If the guy constantly underbids that's his fault. I've subbed out work before and actually told them they are under where they should be. Nothing wrong with a little honesty.


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## Guest

Just saw the local ams crew at the dump, brand new trucks stickers till on the equipment, guys all nice and clean. Said they have 18 crews in grand rapids doing trashouts and grass cuts. I bet that leaves little work for the subs and the locals


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## HollandPPC

wmhlc said:


> Just saw the local ams crew at the dump, brand new trucks stickers till on the equipment, guys all nice and clean. Said they have 18 crews in grand rapids doing trashouts and grass cuts. I bet that leaves little work for the subs and the locals


All of Kent County is going to be done in house.


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## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> All of Kent County is going to be done in house.


That's not true, they sent me 2 initals in gr today and 4 grass cuts. I'm not a vendor for them and I can't complete for those prices


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## HollandPPC

wmhlc said:


> That's not true, they sent me 2 initals in gr today and 4 grass cuts. I'm not a vendor for them and I can't complete for those prices


Your not a vendor for them but they sent you two 
initials? Let me guess you make up your own pricing for them and they say ok?


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## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> Your not a vendor for them but they sent you two
> initials? Let me guess you make up your own pricing for them and they say ok?


No I signed up with them to get pricing and now we are in the system. I just talked to them and they offered 175 for lawn 450 for debris 175 for cleaning. Talked to roberto joseph he is looking for vendors and doing the prices. If you want his phone number pm me. He has a couple in grand rapids if you want the work he sounded like they have to much work and not enough vendors


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## HollandPPC

wmhlc said:


> No I signed up with them to get pricing and now we are in the system. I just talked to them and they offered 175 for lawn 450 for debris 175 for cleaning. Talked to roberto joseph he is looking for vendors and doing the prices. If you want his phone number pm me. He has a couple in grand rapids if you want the work he sounded like they have to much work and not enough vendors


Roberto Joseph ehhh????


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## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> Roberto Joseph ehhh????


He's the manager on the project and he's in charge with setting the prices for the vendors. That's what he told me


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## Guest

HollandPPC said:


> Roberto Joseph ehhh????


Here"s what Roberto forgot to tell you! Minus discount 24% :blink::blink:


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## thanohano44

HollandPPC said:


> Roberto Joseph ehhh????


That's the name of the guy who doesn't use Vaseline.


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## HollandPPC

thanohano44 said:


> That's the name of the guy who doesn't use Vaseline.


Rough and raw huh? Pretty sad when they will not pay for vaseline anymore.


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## BPWY

Back in 08 when the price of diesel was $5 I rolled up in my semi to the fuel pump already feeling a little raw and hadn't even swiped my card.

I stop and look over at the pump........ there is a small jar of vaseline sitting on top of the pump.
I thought "how nice of the previous guy to share his stash."


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## Guest

Received first Initial from AMS! Holding out for more. These clowns are crazy.


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## HollandPPC

reo-pro said:


> Received first Initial from AMS! Holding out for more. These clowns are crazy.


I wish you the best of luck.


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## Guest

I received an intial last night they called today to make sure I was ON IT told them I never agreed to their prices but I would send them mine she said send it and we will see what we can do to get this job done. HOLD OUT THEY WILL PAY MORE>


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## RKRM

property pro said:


> I received an intial last night they called today to make sure I was ON IT told them I never agreed to their prices but I would send them mine she said send it and we will see what we can do to get this job done. HOLD OUT THEY WILL PAY MORE>


Exactly what I did... They called me and asked if we could do 2 initial lawns. I told them the same thing she seemed a little annoyed like she has heard that all day:no: Pay or get your "boots" on


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## Guest

So has anyone actually gotten any type of volume of work this first week or is there only enough to keep their crews busy ? Countdown to excuses nonsense and no work...


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> You are only fooling yourselves if you think they'll listen to the QC inspector.
> I failed and failed and failed properties when I was doing QCs thru NVMS and NMS.
> Same contractor would screw things up...... over and over and over.
> They won't fire them.


same here with A2Z, getting it cheap is that matters!


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> ditto.... $18/cyd? Insane when they receive $50.


ohh they will tell you they don`t!:laughing:


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## Guest

Gypsos said:


> One of my routine lawns has a very large and very dead oak tree in it that sheds limbs and spanish moss by the truck load after every storm.
> 
> Last week there was about 4 cy of limbs and moss. No way I am hauling that off as part of routine lawn cut so I piled it up and sent pics in asking what they want done for it.
> 
> Coordinator got a bit pissy and said it should be part of routine visit. I said if he wasn't paying I would gladly toss it to the curb and we could see if the trash service would haul it off.
> 
> Normally that is a big fat no, but he surprised me and said do it. I happen to know that if the realtor sees it there she will have a fit. So next week it gets piled curbside.
> 
> Truth is I would rather do that than haul it off anyway so it is a win for me because they never want to pay decent for this type of thing.


They want to pay cheap and think your dragging 20ft trailer behind you remove this crap for free.


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## Guest

We have done 6 ISB and picked up only 10 routines.

So far so good have not had to move 1 cubic yard of debris.

But all in all I have not seen those AMS prices that you guys have posted.We have been doing Fannie for AMS for 2 years now in massacusetts and vermont and now finally have New Hampshire.


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## Viviana1026

Hey anyone know if as a subcontractor they have to take 25% of the services do we have to give them a discount


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## Wannabe

No you don't have to but then again you won't get any work...


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