# Need some answer from the veterans



## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

I am in Florida. At present we do exterior cleaning and lawncare/landscape as well as handyman tasks. We do "PP" for a few of our customers locally. We have been looking toward doing more PP. I have been doing a lot of reading to make the best informed decision I can. In my reading I learned about the posting on the properties.

We see many vacant houses in our travels. I have noticed most of them have notices they are being services by Safeguard and other names I see you guys talking about. What troubles me is that most of these properties look to be in need of initial service based on the exterior and lawn. Many have winterization notices from last year. So to get to may question. Are these companies not providing the maintenance schedule as required or is there a shortage of PP servicers locally to handle the volume?


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

We have been in properties that have sat vacant for 4-5 years and had winterization postings from multiple companies. It isn't a matter of a shortage of contractors as you may think. The servicers do not pay living wages for the quality of work they require. There are plenty of contractors out there that can give top shelf results and put foreclosed properties in showable condition. Problem is the regional/national clients are scraping CL and using unskilled hacks. We are doing basic dry wints this year for $150; why would I risk chargebacks and take the headaches of all the photos and bids and followups for $50?
Long story short, there is no shortage of contractors. They just don't want the ones that expect to be paid.


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## Irnhrse5 (Apr 18, 2013)

Some of the properties may be sitting in the bankruptcy courts or in litigation. I know we can't enter and service a house if an owner has filed for bankruptcy. Some of the houses may be Conventional loan types as well. I've serviced some that have been empty for 5-6 years according to the neighbors.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

I see postings on many of the websites I have been to the National, as you call them, have "specific" of "immediate" need listed for Florida. I am not afraid of work. I do not plan on getting rich quick. I just want to know the facts. I hear the comments about the industry. I have been in several different industries over the years. I know how they all work. I have other work and looking to expand our business. I do not expect easy money. Are any of the posters in Florida that can give me a clear picture as to the status of industry in Florida right now?


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

SGP put on a pair of shoes that is way to big 
Then tell people to sub and pay $20 for up to acre on recuts. Not many people are willing to do this, so
We are all seeing props that are not being serviced every 
2 weeks


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> We have been in properties that have sat vacant for 4-5 years and had winterization postings from multiple companies. It isn't a matter of a shortage of contractors as you may think. The servicers do not pay living wages for the quality of work they require. There are plenty of contractors out there that can give top shelf results and put foreclosed properties in showable condition. Problem is the regional/national clients are scraping CL and using unskilled hacks. We are doing basic dry wints this year for $150; why would I risk chargebacks and take the headaches of all the photos and bids and followups for $50?
> *Long story short, there is no shortage of contractors. They just don't want the ones that expect to be paid.*





Exactly, there is no shortage of contractors. Just that most of the legit ones won't work with the risks of charge backs along with the very low pay.


Until the economy retracts more the order mills have pretty much burnt thru the supply of gullible CL hacknutz that were available.
I'm sure occasionally they still find one but over all the companies are getting desperate. 

I've gotten a lot of email recruiting in the last month from companies I wrote off long ago.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

Go Foward? or Not Go Foward?


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Go forward with caution.
It is gonna have to get better sooner rather than later
neighbors and municipalities will see to this


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

rrogers66 said:


> I see postings on many of the websites I have been to the National, as you call them, have "specific" of "immediate" need listed for Florida. I am not afraid of work. I do not plan on getting rich quick. I just want to know the facts. I hear the comments about the industry. I have been in several different industries over the years. I know how they all work. I have other work and looking to expand our business. I do not expect easy money. Are any of the posters in Florida that can give me a clear picture as to the status of industry in Florida right now?




1. immediate need.

First off these companies are not above lying...... A LOT!
Second this immediate need may just be to gather a list of vendors in an effort to help them win a contract. 
The number of stories are countless where a company was super hot to trot lining up vendors left and right, and then NOTHING...... ever.
No work orders at all.


2. getting rich, or easy money
You don't have to worry about that, not with the current state of the industry.
Prices today for many services are far below what they were just a few years ago.
Tell me what other industry out there in all your experience has had their prices go down every year while insurance, operating costs and supplies have gone up year after year????????

I don't know of one.


Please for the sake of your own sanity, and the well being of your family do not put all of your income eggs in the P&P basket.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

cutting grass said:


> Go forward with caution.
> It is gonna have to get better sooner rather than later
> neighbors and municipalities will see to this






I'm not convinced it'll be sooner.



IF you do decide to go forward make absolutely certain you diversify your income stream.

Its not at all unusual for the P&P work to be going balls out for a few months and about the time the money starts rollin in the stream gets shut off for a couple months. 
Or just barely a trickle. You gotta be able to survive those times.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

rrogers66 said:


> I am in Florida. At present we do exterior cleaning and lawncare/landscape as well as handyman tasks. We do "PP" for a few of our customers locally. We have been looking toward doing more PP.





I'd try to expand this business model and leave out the regionals and the nationals. 

I'd imagine your local customers pay in 30 or less. If you go regional/national expect 30 PLUS every time. 
Some go out to 90 plus days pay. 

And then some just don't pay.


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

BPWY said:


> 1. immediate need.
> 
> 
> Tell me what other industry out there in all your experience has had their prices go down every year while insurance, operating costs and supplies have gone up year after year????????
> ...


Drywall. Before I quit I could get $10 per board to hang, $10 per board to finish and $3 per board to texture, plus the cost of materials. When I quit is was paying $14 per board to hang, finish and texture including materials. 

P&P is not the only industry that has seen prices fall dramatically.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

Unfortunately the world is this way. For too many years every layer maxed out their money not thinking about the end result "price" as you will. Then we the "sh**" hit the fan the "Corporates", your regionals, want to hold their margins. They have no problem if prices fall as long as their margin remain. That is what you are seeing in this industry as well as across the country. 

Look as a country we have automated, mechanized, computerized everything we can. Where did those "labor" savings go? Into the pockets of the corporations, not into better pay, benefits, etc. Now that they are struggling, the only solutions is cut pay cut benefits cut hours as long as we don't cut the corporate execs.

So yes the industry does not matter.


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

rrogers66 said:


> I am in Florida. At present we do exterior cleaning and lawncare/landscape as well as handyman tasks. We do "PP" for a few of our customers locally. We have been looking toward doing more PP. I have been doing a lot of reading to make the best informed decision I can. In my reading I learned about the posting on the properties.
> 
> We see many vacant houses in our travels. I have noticed most of them have notices they are being services by Safeguard and other names I see you guys talking about. What troubles me is that most of these properties look to be in need of initial service based on the exterior and lawn. Many have winterization notices from last year. So to get to may question. Are these companies not providing the maintenance schedule as required or is there a shortage of PP servicers locally to handle the volume?


To answer the original question. Most likely the winterization stickers and notices were probably put there pre-sale. I know that most of my properties that are vacant have already been rekeyed and "winterized" by LPS pre-sale, and by "winterized" I mean they stole the copper and put a sticker on the front door! They usually don't cut the grass or remove any debris. Sometimes these properties stay hung up in the courts for years like someone else has pointed out. Bottom line is just because you see a sticker or notice on the property, that does not mean it is currently being "serviced" and in bad shape because they are short on contractors, sometimes the bank just has not gotten around to doing the initial services yet.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

Thank you guys!! And Gals!!! Sorry!!! I understand a little more now. I guess we are lucky. When we are done doing work for the few local investors and agents we work for, we just drop by and pick up a check. 

I thought we could expand on this business by doing the same tasks just on a larger scale. Not say we are not but will be very cautious from the start.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

In my area 
Properties that I serviced last year for BOA
Are the same properties I have recently returned to
that should have been being serviced all season by SPG
Nope 2' to 4' grass or whatever it is 
Truthfully it stopped being grass at around 6"


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## bigdaddy (Mar 3, 2013)

rrogers66 said:


> Thank you guys!! And Gals!!! Sorry!!! I understand a little more now. I guess we are lucky. When we are done doing work for the few local investors and agents we work for, we just drop by and pick up a check.
> 
> I thought we could expand on this business by doing the same tasks just on a larger scale. Not say we are not but will be very cautious from the start.


You are doing it right! Expand your business with more agents and investors and you will reach that larger scale, with a much higher profit margin then if you took on work from a middleman.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Gypsos said:


> Drywall. Before I quit I could get $10 per board to hang, $10 per board to finish and $3 per board to texture, plus the cost of materials. When I quit is was paying $14 per board to hang, finish and texture including materials.
> 
> P&P is not the only industry that has seen prices fall dramatically.


That is true for the drywall biz, not with REO/Preservation. It was the drywall guy, his supplier and the customer. Here it is a staircase of middlemen draining every drop of blood from the turnip there is before it even gets to you. The prices dropped from the middle, not the top.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

Time for a vacation????
http://aladayllc.com/2013/10/03/pro...ctors-the-need-for-a-vacation-and-solidarity/


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

I have been reading some more posts on here for information. Question?: How many pictures are really required per property and why so many if the number 50 plus i see is true?


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## notanymore (Aug 2, 2013)

rrogers66 said:


> I have been reading some more posts on here for information. Question?: How many pictures are really required per property and why so many if the number 50 plus i see is true?


I'm not sure if there's a really good reason for having so many required photos, though I will say it's a good way for an order mill to cut your invoice when your missing x number out of y required.

Regardless, you should take as many photos as necessary to sufficiently CYA...


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

I have have a laptop with internet capabilities. I can email directly from the job so the number is not a factor other than time it takes to take pictures. My biggest concern is I am like a bull once i get started working. I see the red cloth I keep going to til i get there. I will have to set a timer or something to make myself stop long enough take "during" pictures.


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## cutting grass (Jul 14, 2013)

Different companies require different amounts of photos be taken. Some have different amounts per task being completed. The stopping for photos does suck and slow you down a bit but you get use to it. I was raised the same way- keep your head down keep quiet til the work is done, but the dang photos require me to look up every now and again.


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## rrogers66 (Sep 30, 2013)

I am definitely the Mike Mulligan type. I would have that damn basement dug before I remembered to leave a way out. So stopping to take a picture of someone installing a lock mid stream is gonna be new.


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## kevjus07 (Dec 25, 2013)

Takes me longer to admin and upload the photos than it does the crews to recut the lot!


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