# AMS - Michigan



## FFS (Oct 19, 2013)

Anyone else get the Fannie Mae email that AMS will no longer be assigning work for the state of Michigan. It's now going to be GTJ.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

FFS said:


> Anyone else get the Fannie Mae email that AMS will no longer be assigning work for the state of Michigan. It's now going to be GTJ.


The more they lose the better. Now lets hope these other Jack Legs loose it as well. Fannie Mae needs to raise their pricing and lower their QC. Hopefully if enough people quit working for them this will happen.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> The more they lose the better. Now lets hope these other Jack Legs loose it as well. Fannie Mae needs to raise their pricing and lower their QC. Hopefully if enough people quit working for them this will happen.



Keep dreaming. There's more hacks than qualified contractors. FNMA has no reason to raise prices as the nationals are driving the prices down. The contractors/hacks bear all the burden and carry the insurance. The nationals and FNMA have no worries. That's all on those actually doing the work.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> Keep dreaming. There's more hacks than qualified contractors. FNMA has no reason to raise prices as the nationals are driving the prices down. The contractors/hacks bear all the burden and carry the insurance. The nationals and FNMA have no worries. That's all on those actually doing the work.



I couldn't agree more. All the points you make are the issues we need to change.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

I heard today that the FNMA national floor covering outfit for all rehabs was told by FNMA that the new contract was going to be lower than the previous one. Supposedly they said "No, we are raising prices". FNMA said fine, we'll just throw at back at the SAMS vendors.

Just wonderful. Reminds me of the old Life cereal commercials. Give it to Mikey, he likes it.....:icon_rolleyes::no:


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Did AMS lose the contract or did they*

farm out the whole state to GTJ?


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

Someone else from MI correct me or fill in the blanks but:

Wasn't it the summer of 2012 that Safeguard lost/gave up the Fannie contract at least in MI - that was the same time they aquired BOA.

During that same time period, GTJ was also doing Fannie homes in this area, out of Kalamazoo I believe - used to see them a few times a week at least.

I remember being at an AMS meeting for HUD and one of the speakers told us we should be prepared to operate in single digit margins (this guy used to own his own preservation company but sold out and went to AMS) - he must have had some insight on bids being tossed at Fannie because....

AMS took over Fannie here in MI, lawns that we used to do for Safeguard went untouched for 4-6 weeks, instead of cutting the whole thing they cut perimeters or minimal. AMS kept coming at us with obscenely low pricing for the former quality level and work that Safeguard was doing - while we didn't do any type of preservation for Fannie/Safeguard, thru the lawns we were paid decent and seeing the work completed it seemed above average in our area.

AMS was wanting **** and spam spotless for 705 minus 20% - lawn, clean, debris to 35cy and a wint. Needless to say, in our area they couldn't keep contractors and set up their own shop in Grand Rapids with all new shinny equipment to service the account. I seen them all over the place.

I haven't seen a GTJ truck in a few years, they are a nationwide company I do believe with some pretty strict rules or the way they run things.

I just have to wonder what went down with Safeguard and Fannie - Safeguard makes a cut off of every dollar billed, so was it really in their interest to pay low and expect so much?? I know they could just keep more but they paid us pretty well on the lawns, a lot of freedom with bush triming, weed spraying, different lawn sizes paid more money etc..... The houses were pretty spot on too, not really any BS stuff like single bolt boardings and handrails falling off......

Wouldn't break my heart to see AMS suffer, may even have to drive up to their shop and see what's for sale...


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## FFS (Oct 19, 2013)

UPDATE - Here is the communication from Fannie:

Fannie Mae Listing Agent:

The following information is for Listing Agents with properties in MI only.

On August 1, Fannie Mae is adding two additional national Field Services companies: Sentinel Field Services and GTJ. They will join AMS, Cyprexx and Safeguard in performing all Field Services work at properties across the country. Because of the addition of these two new vendors, it is necessary to realign several states.

Over the course of the next several weeks, you may notice some of your assigned properties will show the reassignment of the Field Services company from AMS to GTJ, one of the new national Field Services companies.

Starting August 1, 2014, GTJ will replace AMS as the Field Services company for all new inventory assignments in your state. AMS will remain as the Field Services company on all existing inventory where field services tasks have already started. For properties that are currently Occupied or in a status where there has been no field services work performed, GTJ will be assigned. This transition should be seamless and will require no action from you. Please note, GTJ may actively reach out to you during this transition. 

Additional details and instructions from Fannie Mae will be communicated very soon, including all contact information for GTJ. If you have any questions regarding this change, please contact your Sales Representative.

Regards,
Vendor Operations


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## HollandPPC (Sep 22, 2012)

Chuck,

GTJ does freddie in MI. Their in house guys do the WNTZ and bigger stuff like rehabs. They sub the trash and clean outs to "contractors".

In regards to GTG doing all the FNMA initials in MI it is not going to happen. Not to long ago contractors had their panties in a bunch that MCS was going to take away all of the AMS initials. However this never happened as will be the case with GTJ. Its funny how one contractor hears from a guy who knows someone who knows someone and the rumors and speculation start to fly. I find it humorous people getting worked up over the scraps that once was an industry.


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## FFS (Oct 19, 2013)

The above letter came from a Fannie Listing Agent fyi


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## HollandPPC (Sep 22, 2012)

Your only 3 posts have been in this thread. No introduction no nothing so your credidiblity only goes so far. But hey prove me wrong. Its all fighting for scraps at the bottom of the barrel anyways. 




FFS said:


> The above letter came from a Fannie Listing Agent fyi


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*You guys crack me up. It may be scraps to you*

but the 8-12 G's I can pull in every month, working 4 days a week, with no employees, and little overhead is not scraps from my perspective. No sales, no ads, no billing, a very easy little business right on my phone. Sure, if you are stupid enough to try and do this on a large scale, with a pile of employees, and an office staff it is scraps. I clean up those guys messes all the time. In my experience it is those guys with an outdated bloated model that can't cut it in today's market reality, and leave properties a mess because they can't afford to take 15 extra minutes here and there. If you "invested" 50 thousand in mowers and a truck and pay someone else to run them, you will fail, you will be bitter, you will call the guy who can out bid,out work and out last you a hack and whatever else makes you feel better about your sinking ship. The guy who can travel light, is going to win every time in this market. The guy pulling two 20K mowers around in town to cut 1/4 acre lots is a moron and deserves to fail. I will take any job I want from that guy, either on price or quality. I will fight over those scraps.


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

Ohnojim - you are in business partially thanks to the guys that used to do 50k a week, and a thousand lawns per cycle. Those guys, the ones that used to employee a staff that handled all the "big" jobs that the little guys couldn't do in 24hrs, they are the ones that "just handled it" for whomever back in the day. If the banks and management companies relied solely on the little guy, there'd still be piles of trash neck deep at these places.

I'm not bitter, I know other former business owners, they aren't bitter, some got out sooner than others. Most of us survived the storm and moved on to other things.

Whatever you are doing a month, it fits and you are happy, great, more power to you but have an exit strategy.

Way too many people, myself most of all, deposit "big" checks and think they are on top of the world - then you find out all your deductibles are gone, payroll taxes, the workers comp audit etc.... the really big bills start filtering in and you start realizing what it really costs to work - that's a bad day.

Again, you're doing great, no worries, soldier on dude, protect your share of the pie and eat as much as you can handle but sooner or later the pie will be gone for you too just like it is for us with employees.


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

Holland PPC, you coming to get these locks and cleaning BS stuff or am I taking it to Black River? I hate looking at it.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I understand and things change, I did a lot of high end metal roofing for years.*



Framer1901 said:


> Ohnojim - you are in business partially thanks to the guys that used to do 50k a week, and a thousand lawns per cycle. Those guys, the ones that used to employee a staff that handled all the "big" jobs that the little guys couldn't do in 24hrs, they are the ones that "just handled it" for whomever back in the day. If the banks and management companies relied solely on the little guy, there'd still be piles of trash neck deep at these places.
> 
> I'm not bitter, I know other former business owners, they aren't bitter, some got out sooner than others. Most of us survived the storm and moved on to other things.
> 
> ...


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

I see it completely opposite, the guys driving around with push mowers in their cars, pulling up to one acre or more properties. The unlicensed / inexperienced guy hacking in / making worse some sort of thing. There are and will always be hacks both big and small.

This is America dude, we can have two different opinions and still drink at the same bar.

Do whatever you to the best of you abilities and then some, how can anyone ever fault you.

I'm only here to read the gossip and maybe help someone within this business or help them plan an exit. 

The AMS thing peaks my interest due to things we did in the past relating to that contract and the players involved. I think there is a lot of speculation on the part of contractors as to what is really wanted as it relates to differing tasks - from what I seen - Safeguard vs AMS in the Fannie Mae stuff - two entirely different products were being produced back when I was involved, maybe not today, but certainly for the first 6-9 months.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I see those guys too, and I guess they are worse*



Framer1901 said:


> I see it completely opposite, the guys driving around with push mowers in their cars, pulling up to one acre or more properties. The unlicensed / inexperienced guy hacking in / making worse some sort of thing. There are and will always be hacks both big and small.
> 
> This is America dude, we can have two different opinions and still drink at the same bar.
> 
> ...



when taken individually. I'm somewhere in between, which is a good place to be in my area. I just got a little cranky, still OK in America, kinda. 
Just got real news from a real source today, AMS has basically lost 7 states of FNMA to SG and Cyprex and one other big player. My state PA being among them. I like AMS and have had minimal issues with them, no more than expected from any larger organization but above all, pay was always there, and no chargebacks ever. I would work with them again on another contract. Of course, I was generally on time and did all my call backs. 
Glad I don't have 50,000 in lawn mowers and trailers to feed, with 200+ cuts a month going away.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

So what States did AMS Lose?


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Didn't ask.*



Wannabe said:


> So what States did AMS Lose?



You would think that question would have come up, but I guess I was a little surprised. You always know it's coming but you never think it's today.


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