# Five Brothers Charge Backs



## Craigslist Hack

The Bros are trying to hit us with $1,500.00 worth of charge backs for orders I refused or didn't acknowledge. In one case they are charging us back $1300 for a single job. 

I have emailed a couple of reps there regarding this and received no response. Does anyone have a contact for payroll disputes?

I am going to turn this over to my Attorney and begin seeking legal remedies. I do need to know who to go to with the communication. 

The worst part of this type of scenario is we can't lien a property when we didn't do any work? This is insane!


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## Wannabe

Small Claims Court for that. They wont show, you get default judgement and hire your atty to collect. Your State may be different so talk to your Atty.


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## brm1109

Might want to try carol Hess


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## GTX63

The no response means they don't care about your issues and they can only lose by getting involved. They sent over a rush grass cut on a Friday afternoon, guys were already in the field and booked for the day. We looked at it Saturday morning; nearly an acre lot 54" tall and loaded with horse weeds and hidden debris. Monday morning they answer the phone and review our bid. "You should have cut it while you were there and bid it after the fact!" she says. "The city has cited the property and will be there today!" I send the guys over and while they are mowing, the city shows up. They talk and then they see all is good and leave. Three weeks later we get a $350 chargeback because we didn't complete the yard service in a timely manner, causing the city to bill them for going to the house. We sent them an email and a letter, cc'd to our attorney, that unless we were paid in full for the grass cut, we would lien the property and cut them loose. I get a call from my regional's boss who tells me I can accept the chargeback and they will continue to receive work from them, or they will pay me in full and never use us again. My response was to confirm they had my mailing address correct.


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## GTX63

CHack, the above story doesn't really apply to you, but we received a lot of threats from 5 Brothers and the way we usually dealt was them was to take off the kid gloves. If you can get them to take your threats seriously you may have a chance. Otherwise you'll have to wait for an Indiana judge to try and understand what preservation is and why they think they can take money from you that you were never paid in the first place.


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## Craigslist Hack

brm1109 said:


> Might want to try carol Hess


I have sent an email to Carol and Denise. 

It seems as if they gave us a final convey on a property we had never been to. I refused the order because those finals don't pay crap and require too many questions to be answered in Zephyr. They apparently found seepage in the basement and had another contractor drylock the basement. They somehow think I should foot the bill?


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## SwiftRes

Did you ask it to be cancelled before it was due or after? They are horrible with seepage charge backs. I never got hit with one but they tried to give me a no charge order for seepage when my previous update clearly stated it was present. We did a couple orders where other contractors were getting charged back. It just gave me bad feelings when doing their work as I knew either us, or another contractor, was getting screwed somehow on every work order. We quit a month ago after only working with them for a couple months, this was our second "try" with them.


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## UnitedFieldInspections

Five sisters is the worst with chargbacks.I got about 3-k this year alone because of bs.If you cant get it worked out use it as a write off.


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## Cleanupman

If you denied a WO and they are going to do a CB that would be illegal...
You do know that this company is under investigation for some of their billing practices???
Especially on the insurance side of things...
If you have documentation....let me know...


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## thanohano44

Cleanupman said:


> If you denied a WO and they are going to do a CB that would be illegal...
> You do know that this company is under investigation for some of their billing practices???
> Especially on the insurance side of things...
> If you have documentation....let me know...


Aaron, how are you qualified to interpret the law? That's what lawyers and judges do. Not PPI Contractors.


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## Sicoupe06

You don't have to be a lawyer or judge to know those practices are illegal.


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## Craigslist Hack

SwiftRes said:


> Did you ask it to be cancelled before it was due or after? They are horrible with seepage charge backs. I never got hit with one but they tried to give me a no charge order for seepage when my previous update clearly stated it was present. We did a couple orders where other contractors were getting charged back. It just gave me bad feelings when doing their work as I knew either us, or another contractor, was getting screwed somehow on every work order. We quit a month ago after only working with them for a couple months, this was our second "try" with them.


I am not aware as of yet the exact circumstances. Luckily I went low tech drove to the property saw the sign in sheet called the other contract who I kind of know a little. He was pretty cool about everything and filled in the blanks for me. 

This will never hold up in a court of law. I'm no attorney but I have had a few business/contract law classes and my brother is an attorney. They get away with this crap because it costs more to fight than it does to take the charge back for most people. It won't for me.

I won't pay to drylock someone else's house. Won't do it! This is one of those times in life where you have to make a stand.


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## SwiftRes

Craigslist Hack said:


> I am not aware as of yet the exact circumstances. Luckily I went low tech drove to the property saw the sign in sheet called the other contract who I kind of know a little. He was pretty cool about everything and filled in the blanks for me.
> 
> This will never hold up in a court of law. I'm no attorney but I have had a few business/contract law classes and my brother is an attorney. They get away with this crap because it costs more to fight than it does to take the charge back for most people. It won't for me.
> 
> I won't pay to drylock someone else's house. Won't do it! This is one of those times in life where you have to make a stand.


Yeah we reported every basement as having seepage to cya


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## brm1109

They tried the same thing with us. Ours was a little different. We actually did the job and then about 2 months later get a no charge order because there was another contractor who went to fix something with the oil heater and bid to drylok because ours failed.
I went to the property and guess what, the stains they were referring to was because the other guy spread oil on the walls and said it was seepage.
About 10 e-mails before it was corrected.


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## thanohano44

brm1109 said:


> They tried the same thing with us. Ours was a little different. We actually did the job and then about 2 months later get a no charge order because there was another contractor who went to fix something with the oil heater and bid to drylok because ours failed.
> I went to the property and guess what, the stains they were referring to was because the other guy spread oil on the walls and said it was seepage.
> About 10 e-mails before it was corrected.


I don't know how people have problems with these guys. They're awesome for me.


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## brm1109

They were good for us too for about 5 years. Then it was like somebody threw the switch. One day all hell broke lose and it went real fast


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## GTX63

On wet basements, seepage, etc. If you do receive a chargeback, you should demand to see photos, and invoice with dates and description of the work, materials and the amount paid to the other contractor. They may tell you that is confidential, can't name the contractor, don't have access to specific records, etc, etc. Make sure you do it in writing and use the same email with all previous discussions on the topic attached. Helps with the higher ups if it is escalated and helps with the judge. Once you feel you have reached a point of no return on the issue, let them know you will be sending a copy of the discussion to your attorney. This may cause the rat to finally show their head.

Want to talk to the guy that did the repairs? Next time you get an order for that property, call it in and tell them you can't locate the house/numbers missing, etc and ask for the last vendor that was there. Funny how numbers fall out of the file cabinet then.

Common statement from them- "You were there in July, September, October and you noted everything was fine. Now another vendor says there is a problem and you didn't catch it." Did it rain since you were there last? Did the client ever turn the power on to run the hvac?

Without rehashing some of what has already been posted, you are basically having money taken from you for work you may never have performed, without access to proof/supporting documents. Just their word.


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## Craigslist Hack

GTX63 said:


> On wet basements, seepage, etc. If you do receive a chargeback, you should demand to see photos, and invoice with dates and description of the work, materials and the amount paid to the other contractor. They may tell you that is confidential, can't name the contractor, don't have access to specific records, etc, etc. Make sure you do it in writing and use the same email with all previous discussions on the topic attached. Helps with the higher ups if it is escalated and helps with the judge. Once you feel you have reached a point of no return on the issue, let them know you will be sending a copy of the discussion to your attorney. This may cause the rat to finally show their head.
> 
> Want to talk to the guy that did the repairs? Next time you get an order for that property, call it in and tell them you can't locate the house/numbers missing, etc and ask for the last vendor that was there. Funny how numbers fall out of the file cabinet then.
> 
> Common statement from them- "You were there in July, September, October and you noted everything was fine. Now another vendor says there is a problem and you didn't catch it." Did it rain since you were there last? Did the client ever turn the power on to run the hvac?
> 
> Without rehashing some of what has already been posted, you are basically having money taken from you for work you may never have performed, without access to proof/supporting documents. Just their word.


Actually we are trying to get an appointment with the states attorney. There may be a case here of misappropriation of funds. Therefore possible criminal charges? It will simply depend how much my states attorney understands.

Our contention is that Five Brothers did not want to pay a contractor to do this work so they used money owed to me and paid him without my knowledge or consent.

Another interesting wrinkle to all of this is we never signed anything stating that they could charge us for this work. If such policies were going to be enforced there would have to be a document signed each and every time. These blanket one size fits all contracts are easy to beat. Technically there should be a new contract for every work order.

Another issue is the notarization and execution of originals.

In short there are about 10 things Five Brothers have done that won't stand up in court. My hope is to get them down here and make them face a judge.


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## Cleanupman

Craigslist Hack said:


> Actually we are trying to get an appointment with the states attorney. There may be a case here of misappropriation of funds. Therefore possible criminal charges? It will simply depend how much my states attorney understands.
> 
> Our contention is that Five Brothers did not want to pay a contractor to do this work so they used money owed to me and paid him without my knowledge or consent.
> 
> Another interesting wrinkle to all of this is we never signed anything stating that they could charge us for this work. If such policies were going to be enforced there would have to be a document signed each and every time. These blanket one size fits all contracts are easy to beat. Technically there should be a new contract for every work order.
> 
> Another issue is the notarization and execution of originals.
> 
> In short there are about 10 things Five Brothers have done that won't stand up in court. My hope is to get them down here and make them face a judge.


You need to talk to Paul at Foreclosurepedia as he has a bevy of info on them and you'll have no problem showing their MO with the courts with the info he has...


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## Craigslist Hack

They sent me an email stating why they charged me and they are saying that the big one was for another contractor to go to the property and provide pictures. I asked when they started paying $1,300.00 for pictures?


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## Craigslist Hack

I am now locked out of Zephyr and the contractor site has changed significantly. We only have access to old payroll basically.

It's strange what a threatening email will accomplish.


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## GTX63

Seriously, try to go thru Mars (the old system) if you need to access data or uploads.


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## ctquietcorner

We have dealt with these idiots about being charged for a yard of debris removal that another contractor removed stating we missed it on the original debris removal. 
Yet a month later we get a no charge order to return to the property to remove screens we missed. Which are in the other contrators photos of what he supposely removed. Yup it got real nasty and now I haven't heard anything back after I told them they got screwed by the other contractor whom we happen to know as we ran in to him at a different property. That guy is a real piece of work. He "removes" debris to the woods that abuts the property and numerous other things. Oh yes we reported him. 

On the note of seepage if it is from a stone foundation I have a big write up about how they were made to divert the water not stop it from penetrating through the walls. When I attach it to the work orders we never hear anything else about it. 

I told my husband if he wants to stay working for them then we play the game my way.


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## Craigslist Hack

_This is starting to get interesting. I have won on a few of the backcharges already and am fighting a few as of yet._


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## Craigslist Hack

_This just came:
_
_
_
_Mr. Craigslist Hack,
_

_The email chain has been forwarded to our corporate attorney. _

_I will reach back out to you once he has had the chance to review the accounts._

_Thanks much._


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## Craigslist Hack

What banks are LMM, AMS, and CNC?

I am ready to contact the clients and see what their take on this is.:thumbup:


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## ctquietcorner

Well it looks like we are done with 5 loser. My husband just went to a property for a bid approval. Cap open water lines, cap exposed wires, and sliders locks. This property had approximately 50 exposed wires and 21 open water lines from copper being cut out. A pretty good paying one and everything was already done two days ago. Called our rep only to find out they sent out double work orders. My husband said F them we are done. Tell them to reassign everything else. It really takes alot to piss him off. 

At least I know he can do mechanic work on the side to make money so not concerned about losing them.


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## Craigslist Hack

ctquietcorner said:


> Well it looks like we are done with 5 loser. My husband just went to a property for a bid approval. Cap open water lines, cap exposed wires, and sliders locks. This property had approximately 50 exposed wires and 21 open water lines from copper being cut out. A pretty good paying one and everything was already done two days ago. Called our rep only to find out they sent out double work orders. My husband said F them we are done. Tell them to reassign everything else. It really takes alot to piss him off.
> 
> At least I know he can do mechanic work on the side to make money so not concerned about losing them.


That tell them to reassign everything is where I got into trouble be very careful.

And Congrats!


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## SwiftRes

Craigslist Hack said:


> That tell them to reassign everything is where I got into trouble be very careful.
> 
> And Congrats!


Yep expect at least a $25/order charge back if you ask them to re assign everything


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## Craigslist Hack

SwiftRes said:


> Yep expect at least a $25/order charge back if you ask them to re assign everything


I would agree with this. I would also challenge the legality of such a move. I just consulted another attorney because I believe the one I use is a little biased (he's my brother) and I was told that there is no gray area here. What they are trying to do is not legal. We could be held liable for liquidated damages if a project goes beyond a specific completion date and we signed a document agreeing to that. In these cases we did not sign anything on a per job basis stating that we agreed to specified start times or a penalty could be assessed. Five Brothers is trying to bully contractors into doing whatever they ask by imposing penalties. In essence they are forcing you to be an employee.


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## ctquietcorner

SwiftRes said:


> Yep expect at least a $25/order charge back if you ask them to re assign everything


 
Nothing is due for them until Friday so if they charge us $25 an order for reassigning them yea things will not be good for them.


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## Cleanupman

Craigslist Hack said:


> I would agree with this. I would also challenge the legality of such a move. I just consulted another attorney because I believe the one I use is a little biased (he's my brother) and I was told that there is no gray area here. What they are trying to do is not legal. We could be held liable for liquidated damages if a project goes beyond a specific completion date and we signed a document agreeing to that. In these cases we did not sign anything on a per job basis stating that we agreed to specified start times or a penalty could be assessed. Five Brothers is trying to bully contractors into doing whatever they ask by imposing penalties. In essence they are forcing you to be an employee.


They can not legally back charge you for denying a work order. If they do...should let me and Paul know and it will go onto the Istar system with the rest of the improprieties this company performs on a daily basis...


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## STARBABY

ctquietcorner said:


> Nothing is due for them until Friday so if they charge us $25 an order for reassigning them yea things will not be good for them.


Same thing always happens to me too and I still start on them on Monday morning.


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## JFMURFY

Craigslist Hack said:


> The Bros are trying to hit us with $1,500.00 worth of charge backs for orders I refused or didn't acknowledge. In one case they are charging us back $1300 for a single job.
> 
> I have emailed a couple of reps there regarding this and received no response. *Does anyone have a contact for payroll disputes?*
> 
> 
> Stacey DeLangy <[email protected]> I heard she moved from Insurance Claim Work to Payables....


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## thanohano44

Lien


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## IPS

*So what happened*

I am curious how this played out? Lets hear the end result on that $1,300 Charge back.:vs_worry: Anyone else have troubles not ending well with these guys? I would like to hear.


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## allure9121

Why are you still working for them? If they are charging you back 
put a lien on the property and look else where for work


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