# why so negative about P&P work



## RI preservstion (Mar 21, 2013)

why is everyone so negative about P&P work? thats all i do and im pretty profitable, i have 7 guys working for me and an office girl, I am in Rhode Island and am able to get anywhere in 30 min. is this the main reason? i believe there is a lot of work in this state


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

RI preservstion said:


> why is everyone so negative about P&P work?


What specifically are people saying?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

I can't believe this is even a question but here goes



We do not get to set our own prices on alot of what we do even though we are our own companies.
We are susceptible to charge backs for 24 months from the time you do a job.
The pay is slow.
The pay is well below market value.
Cost estimators are nothing more than someone else dictating your companies profits to you.
being forced to bid items that we have no interest in bidding. Like sales cleans or dirty fridges.
Having to cover whole states just to get on board with certain companies.
Company audits for background checks etc.
Bidding out Initial Secures for hours on busted out POS houses that will never have anything done to them.
I could go on and on all day. If you still like doing this either you have no issue doing what they ask or you are working for better clients than the rest of us.​


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

Get back to me in 12 months and we shall see if your tune has changed. Veteran of 16 years here. That's my gripe... It used to be broom swept and 29$ a cube regardless ! NO E&O insurance needed then. BACK UP ALL WORK on an external HDD for the day you are sued for changing a lock on a house. And beware of local (state) statutes here it is breaking and entering to do PP work and the nationals have been notified and still issue the work orders! It is the difference between Possession and ownership . So is that enough or do you need more. I have kept me favorite realtor and my sanity telling the nationals to PACK SAND !


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## RI preservstion (Mar 21, 2013)

listen, by no means am i trying to be cocky at all, just trying to get some feed back, ive been in the business for 8 yrs and have had alot of good and bad, craiglist hacker, u make some good points and i will agree with alot of them, im in RI and i can get anywhere within 30 min so travel is never an issue and the volume is good,and splinterpicker, would u agree that what u use to get paid back in the day was a bit high because there were less contractors and less foreclosers?i think all the new protocall and rules there pumping out will get rid of alot of these hacks in the field and get the industry back up to par a little


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

RI preservstion said:


> i think all the new protocall and rules there pumping out will get rid of alot of these hacks in the field and get the industry back up to par a little


 You gotta be kidding right?:blink::001_huh: It will be the veterans who get out all together or leave the nationals for local realtors, investors, etc. Only the newbies and hacks will be willing to try this for these prices.


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## RI preservstion (Mar 21, 2013)

give me an idea when u say this pricing?


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

$12 lockset changes
$15 lock box
$6 padlock
$20 and below cubic yard - and then they try and cut you short from pics
$25 300 picture maid services

For us at least - an initial secure took hours due to the long list of bidding, most times changing one lock set. Then your long list of bids were spoon fed back to you 25-40 bucks at a time every 2-4 weeks. Each visit required re bidding, new pics and of course the free PCR.

We tried our best at using forms that could be copied and pasted for PCR's, pics that could be copied and pasted but you still had waayyy too much time in data entry / paper work per low dollar job - the jobs were becoming glorified trip charges and you supplied materials.

I capped wires or covered outlets one to many times right next to a broken window that had been that way for months.

It seemed there were some companies that had the laundry list of items that could be completed on site with no bids, we just never had enough volume with them to get into a groove so that employees knew what you could or could not do.

Diversify, spend time building other factions of your business and realize your time really is worth something.


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

I think you are kidding yourselves with the hope that the pricing will come back.

The market price has been pushed into the toilet and will never come back. Look at some commodity prices:

Bulk road salt - I used to get it at 45/ton delivered not too many years ago, it's in the 80's now due to a shortage one year.

OSB - 10 years ago was dirt cheap - While one plant was down for maintainence, another one caught fire and all of a sudden there was a shortage - prices skyrocketed. There ain't no housing boom now, why is it still so high?


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## RI preservstion (Mar 21, 2013)

those prices im assuming are from a regional and not a national?


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## STARBABY (Apr 12, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I can't believe this is even a question but here goes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I personal favorite is to complete work per regs! I always bid it,telling them I need a work order saying to remove raw trash and food.

did a fridge clean and move personals out of yard. I bagged items from fridge and put in corner of kitchen. After cleaning fridge was taking cleaning supplies back to truck and seen a car driving by slowly. was driving down drive and meet a sheriff car. showed work order to clean fridge and move personals. Lady puled up, told deputy she saw me caring things to my truck(my bucket with cleaners). told them they look in my truck ,if they wanted too. now if I would have removed all food products per regs, i would have a problem. Law doesn`t care what regs are, if its not on work order I shouldn`t be removing.


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

Yea those are regional pricing - never worked straight for FAS or others. Straight for BOA and HUD only, I guess SG also.

We did lawns for SG back when they had Fannie up here and the money was fairly decent, when Fannie went to AMS oh my lord........


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## LaCaSa (Apr 13, 2014)

Framer1901 said:


> Yea those are regional pricing - never worked straight for FAS or others. Straight for BOA and HUD only, I guess SG also.
> 
> We did lawns for SG back when they had Fannie up here and the money was fairly decent, when Fannie went to AMS oh my lord........


How do you get to be in that position? Where you work directly with HUD or BOA? I thought those are with nationals only?


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

In Michigan, back in the day, the HUD contract was awarded to one group, Frank Chapman - after his legal battle to get it he promptly fell face first and it was then given to MCB. 

In 2006?? the contract in Michigan was quartered, "to provide better pricing thru competition" - isn't that what the bidding process was all about? The contract was awarded to 4 companies, Sigma, Asons, AMS and Tidewater.

We have worked for all the above companies except Asons.

We worked both direct and indirect for BOA. 

Multiple companies names, broad reach and a lot of phone calls.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Go to property and trim all bushes and trees BATF. 

Here is yet another reason I hate P&P. We have bid the cleanup at every property we go to. THey choose not to take our bids yet ask us to BATF it. Then they pay 1/3 of what our bid was.

Tell me another industry this happens in?


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## Framer1901 (Nov 2, 2013)

BATF - my favorite four letters. Biggest crock of **** there is, grand theft.

I always tried being fair, sort of tagging a hourly rate to things with degree of difficulty and job type tagged in there, bill that amount and 60 days later would get paid half what we billed.

It's not very hard to have a bad mojo in this business.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

BATF means we're too busy to haggle right now but we really need it done. We (they) will sort the numbers out later.
How come they won't be too busy then as well?
There is no good reason why the rep can't look at your pics right then and there and determine if they think it is a fair price or not. 

The truth is it doesn't benefit them to guarantee your invoice when their client won't either. The plus for them is if their client cuts the invoice, they can fall back on you to cover it. You, on the other hand, are the last in line.

A national would never cut your invoice and continue to bill the bid rate to their customer, that would be fraud...


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> A national would never cut your invoice and continue to bill the bid rate to their customer, that would be fraud...








Does that line of BS help you sleep good at night???? :lol: :lol: :lol:

How did you even type that with a straight face? :innocent:


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

BPWY said:


> How did you even type that with a straight face? :innocent:


I tried.


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