# Class action lawsuits against Nationals



## onlyforeclosed (Jan 8, 2013)

OK, I know I'll be slammed for working for the nationals but the relationship with them was really great until recently. I never had chargebacks or declined workorders that weren't deserved but they could be reversed if photos were supplied. I've read this forum for years but wasn't an active participate until now. 
Recently the nationals have seemed to get really slow on paying and have the attitude of "oh well". They think that the little guys out here making all the money for them can easily be replaced by another one standing in line. 
So, here's what my thoughts are:
1. No pay, no work.
2. Get a group of people together that have been taken advantage of by the nationals and make a stand to get paid what is owed.
3. Bring the nationals back to reality. If possible!

What's everyone's thoughts?


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Check with Cleanupman. He is working on organizing, meet and greets, networking, etc. He routinely posts about the Preservation guild and foreclosurepedia.


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## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

They are fading away, and they want to hold as much $ as they can until the show is over, then they will not pay their contractors the remaining money they owe! :yes:


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

onlyforeclosed said:


> OK, I know I'll be slammed for working for the nationals but the relationship with them was really great until recently. I never had chargebacks or declined workorders that weren't deserved but they could be reversed if photos were supplied. I've read this forum for years but wasn't an active participate until now.
> Recently the nationals have seemed to get really slow on paying and have the attitude of "oh well". They think that the little guys out here making all the money for them can easily be replaced by another one standing in line.
> So, here's what my thoughts are:
> 1. No pay, no work.
> ...


I could be wrong, but I think most of the horror stories are with regionals that are not paying. While nationals may lower the pay scale, for the most part they do pay OK. It's when you have another layer in there trying to make their 20% that most of the trouble starts. 

I know there has been a talk of FAS being slow/no pay lately, but it sounds like it's probably because they are in a financial crisis. Others such as LPS, SG, Cyprexx, LAMCO, MCS, etc. etc. always pay fine, but just may not be the pricing we'd prefer.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> I could be wrong, but I think most of the horror stories are with regionals that are not paying. While nationals may lower the pay scale, for the most part they do pay OK. It's when you have another layer in there trying to make their 20% that most of the trouble starts.
> 
> I know there has been a talk of FAS being slow/no pay lately, but it sounds like it's probably because they are in a financial crisis. Others such as LPS, SG, Cyprexx, LAMCO, MCS, etc. etc. always pay fine, but just may not be the pricing we'd prefer.


I'd have to beg to differ on LAMCO. Their payment terms are way out there. They told me 90 days net. I did a trashout on June 7 and didn't get paid for it until the first week of December.

Far as I'm concerned, they aren't any better than some of the regionals.....

They called me about 6 weeks back and asked if I'd do an initial and bid the trashout. I said no problem 60 days net, "in my hand", not "in the mail". He said "can't help you with that but we are striving to get back to 90 days" Really? :blink: I asked him how often he gets paid. He said every other Friday. I asked him why he doesn't wait 90 days to get paid and he told me "Looks like I have to call someone else".........


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> I could be wrong, but I think most of the horror stories are with regionals that are not paying. While nationals may lower the pay scale, for the most part they do pay OK. It's when you have another layer in there trying to make their 20% that most of the trouble starts.
> 
> I know there has been a talk of FAS being slow/no pay lately, but it sounds like it's probably because they are in a financial crisis. Others such as LPS, SG, Cyprexx, LAMCO, MCS, etc. etc. always pay fine, but just may not be the pricing we'd prefer.


I'm going to differ on this point as well. 
Even though there are way too many notoriously bad regionals and there is NO excuse for them, I think you will find that it is the nationals that toy around with the money first. Oftentimes the contractors will never see or hear about the fight that went on behind the curtain between the nat's & regional's for their money.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

I AGREE WITH EVERYONE!!!!!!
Our company instituted a policy of not working with anyone "subbing" work...
That is how we felt we coupld protect ourselves form this...we did get stung a couple times...
@ OP...PM me and I will get you the information on NPPG also look at the Daily update page...somewhere in there is a post about the subject matter of your post...I can point you in one of the many directions for information on this. 
This is strickly my opinion on matters like this....Us...the boots on the ground...have been kept at odds with each other by the nationals for a reason. As long as we are unorganized this typ of activity will continue as SOP for those "powers to be"...until the "Boots on the Ground" people show that we are organized nothing will change...
Now that the holiday work slowdown is about over....anyone think the fees will be dropped again this year??????
Just thinkin' outloud....


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

The rates are not going to drop as dramatically as they have in years past, however some shaving and whittling will still occurr. It has hit the point, in my opinion, where the quality of work has fallen so far off due to pricing (among other reasons) that some sort of industry evolution will begin to take place. For the average plumber to get $250 for a standard winterization on the private market, and be "allowed" to bill $56.25 to a National for the same service, cannot go unrecognized much longer. I'm not saying to start looking for the sunrise over the hill; I'm saying to look for more "creative pricing" on the part of the existing Nationals, more reorganization by the Regionals that stay afloat, and some other outside players to enter the field.


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## BPWY (Apr 12, 2012)

The regionals only paying $35 to $40 for their wints are defending themselves on other venues across the internet.
They believe they are entitled to make a living the same as every one else and that them taking a small cut of an already very small slice of 
pie is justified by they themselves not going on food stamps.

What grinds my gears is that they are (probably knowingly) contributing to the "contractors'' doing their work being on food stamps themselves or 
even going bankrupt because the "contractors" don't know enough about business to know what they should be making.
Any one that takes advantage of a situation like this............... deserves all the criticism they get.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree. A small ownership group parking their rear end between two others on a short bench isn't helping anyone. They are not creating anything new. The lower end of the wage scale as a contractor is now being offset by the rising scale and opportunities of government assistance programs. Someone with a family of 4 scratching out a day job at say 45k to keep the cable paid should be looking at what is available from your state and federal cookie jars. It is no longer a joke to claim that you could enjoy a richer lifestyle using taxpayer $ for your health, your childcare, your utilities, your rent/mortgage, your groceries, your education, etc. You could define accepting government assistance in the 21st century as a way to make a living.


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## garylaps (Sep 28, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> I agree. A small ownership group parking their rear end between two others on a short bench isn't helping anyone. They are not creating anything new. The lower end of the wage scale as a contractor is now being offset by the rising scale and opportunities of government assistance programs. Someone with a family of 4 scratching out a day job at say 45k to keep the cable paid should be looking at what is available from your state and federal cookie jars. It is no longer a joke to claim that you could enjoy a richer lifestyle using taxpayer $ for your health, your childcare, your utilities, your rent/mortgage, your groceries, your education, etc. You could define accepting government assistance in the 21st century as a way to make a living.


 
It's mostly these same people that are the only resorce for our labor pool...


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> I'd have to beg to differ on LAMCO. Their payment terms are way out there. They told me 90 days net. I did a trashout on June 7 and didn't get paid for it until the first week of December.
> 
> Far as I'm concerned, they aren't any better than some of the regionals.....
> 
> They called me about 6 weeks back and asked if I'd do an initial and bid the trashout. I said no problem 60 days net, "in my hand", not "in the mail". He said "can't help you with that but we are striving to get back to 90 days" Really? :blink: I asked him how often he gets paid. He said every other Friday. I asked him why he doesn't wait 90 days to get paid and he told me "Looks like I have to call someone else".........


Yeah you are right on LAMCO payment terms, but at least they pay very above average in their pricing. We do some work direct, and through a regional. US Best is being a regional for some LAMCO work, and they pay in 10 days or so. They must have a very good float.


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

BRADSConst said:


> I'd have to beg to differ on LAMCO. Their payment terms are way out there. They told me 90 days net. I did a trashout on June 7 and didn't get paid for it until the first week of December.
> 
> Far as I'm concerned, they aren't any better than some of the regionals.....
> 
> They called me about 6 weeks back and asked if I'd do an initial and bid the trashout. I said no problem 60 days net, "in my hand", not "in the mail". He said "can't help you with that but we are striving to get back to 90 days" Really? :blink: I asked him how often he gets paid. He said every other Friday. I asked him why he doesn't wait 90 days to get paid and he told me "Looks like I have to call someone else".........


LAMECO
IS THE WORST imo.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> Yeah you are right on LAMCO payment terms, but at least they pay very above average in their pricing. We do some work direct, and through a regional. US Best is being a regional for some LAMCO work, and they pay in 10 days or so. They must have a very good float.


UsBest is the best regional I have done any work for. These people have integrity.


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

Splinterpicker said:


> LAMECO
> IS THE WORST imo.


I got basically HUD pricing across the board, no discount, on the one I just did for them...


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## SwiftRes (Apr 12, 2012)

thanohano44 said:


> UsBest is the best regional I have done any work for. These people have integrity.


Agree 100%. I do think their pricing could be improved upon, but at least they pay fast, and are friendly to deal with. If i forget to send them an invoice, a check still shows up in 10 days or so in the amount we agreed upon.


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## thanohano44 (Aug 5, 2012)

SwiftRes said:


> Agree 100%. I do think their pricing could be improved upon, but at least they pay fast, and are friendly to deal with. If i forget to send them an invoice, a check still shows up in 10 days or so in the amount we agreed upon.


I know what they make from one of their clients. And what the make off of it ain't much. I did negotiate higher fees with them though. At least they answer their phones when you call and return your emails.


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## yanksjade (Jan 3, 2013)

Im replying against a national that is cutting the prices. Sentinal just received all the HUD properties in my area and pay is literally in half! Ive went from over 100 properties to 6 literally over night. They requested we drive 380 miles round trip for 3 properties at $40/property to clean them and do snow removal. They expect to see generators and vacuums going and then label all photos as to what room we are in and what doing. Forgot to mention I havent uploaded photos yet and did forget to pay myself. Its absolutely brutal and they wonder why we are declining work order.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

yanksjade said:


> Im replying against a national that is cutting the prices. Sentinal just received all the HUD properties in my area and pay is literally in half! Ive went from over 100 properties to 6 literally over night. They requested we drive 380 miles round trip for 3 properties at $40/property to clean them and do snow removal. They expect to see generators and vacuums going and then label all photos as to what room we are in and what doing. Forgot to mention I havent uploaded photos yet and did forget to pay myself. Its absolutely brutal and they wonder why we are declining work order.


I never had to label the photos in the past when I worked for them. I can't do the HUD stuff for their pricing. I'm in the same boat as Swift.


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## Cleanupman (Nov 23, 2012)

We also refused the HUD work from PKMGT...I honestly do not see either company delivering on the contracts...not at the numbers the shoved on everyone....


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## REO2Rentals (Sep 18, 2012)

yanksjade said:


> Im replying against a national that is cutting the prices. Sentinal just received all the HUD properties in my area and pay is literally in half! Ive went from over 100 properties to 6 literally over night. They requested we drive 380 miles round trip for 3 properties at $40/property to clean them and do snow removal. They expect to see generators and vacuums going and then label all photos as to what room we are in and what doing. Forgot to mention I havent uploaded photos yet and did forget to pay myself. Its absolutely brutal and they wonder why we are declining work order.



Did u have their updated price sheet?


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