# Winterization season



## SwiftRes

Everyone ready for winterization season? I feel very under prepared.


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## mtmtnman

WTF are they starting Sept 1st in 3D for?? Crazy!


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## david

*hi*

i heard hud rates went up this year,anyone else hear this?


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## BPWY

mtmtnman said:


> WTF are they starting Sept 1st in 3D for?? Crazy!





In 09 it was 1 sept thru 30 april.

Later it changed to 1 oct thru 31 mar.


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## SwiftRes

9/1 here. Expecting to be slammed come Tuesday. Short week nonetheless.


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## mtmtnman

Absolutely nuts. All my broker direct properties will not be winterized until early to mid October. Brokers leave it entirely up to my discretion. I like it that way..............


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## SwiftRes

Yeah high of 90 degrees here on the first day of winterization season.  I think they just should just winterize year round IMHO.


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## mtmtnman

SwiftRes said:


> Yeah high of 90 degrees here on the first day of winterization season.  I think they just should just winterize year round IMHO.


No thank you. To busy with grass and to damn hot in these houses to wint in the summer. By October i have slowed down enough where i have time to do wints.............


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## SwiftRes

Yeah, but doing it with initial secure/lawn just saves another trip to house. With wint season starting in September, now we have both lawns AND a rush of winterizations to do. Followed by a rush of plumbing repairs. 

There are a few banks that do year-round winterizations. Somehow I always miss that detail the work order because it's only maybe one property per month, and end up having to go back to winterize. 



mtmtnman said:


> No thank you. To busy with grass and to damn hot in these houses to wint in the summer. By October i have slowed down enough where i have time to do wints.............


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## GTX63

Yep, we are getting wint orders now too, and the note that if we don't get them done in a timley manner and the pipes freeze, we may be held liable, lol.


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## BPWY

I agree. Not winterizing year around is stupid. 


Wastes fuel and time to make another special trip just to winterize. Especially in the rural states.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> I agree. Not winterizing year around is stupid.
> 
> Wastes fuel and time to make another special trip just to winterize. Especially in the rural states.


Your there every month anyways. What's the difference??? If you wint in July and a realtor turns the water on the pipes freeze anyways if it's not caught. If you do it in October any least most realtors will leave it alone knowing it's winter......


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## BPWY

I couldn't possibly count how many times I did initial secures and NEVER returned to the property.

Or if I did only returned later (wasted trip) to do a winterize. 


I couldn't possibly count how many winterizes I've done over the years that were lock changed by some one else and I was making a special trip to winterize.


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## BPWY

Remember late fall of 09 when I made a trip into northern WY and even into MT doing rush emergency winterizes when the temps dropped way down?


All BS trips had they been winterized on the initial secure.


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## Guest

Hey Swift, just a heads up make certain you are using a licensed plumber in Polk and Story county. If you want details as to why I say this call, pm, or email me. It's gonna get messy for some of these Joe Blow's doing repairs without pulling a permit.


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## Guest

P3.

You are 100% correct. Did you hear from the Plumbing Board? I was informed every home that has a foreclosure filing or Sheriff sale will be required a plumbers certificate or its a $250 fine. I will only say Kenny is at work at the P&P guys wont be. 

Swift if you need a master plumber I know 1 @ $200 each or P3 Im sure knows some.


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## mtmtnman

FremontREO said:


> P3.
> 
> You are 100% correct. Did you hear from the Plumbing Board? I was informed every home that has a foreclosure filing or Sheriff sale will be required a plumbers certificate or its a $250 fine. I will only say Kenny is at work at the P&P guys wont be.
> 
> Swift if you need a master plumber I know 1 @ $200 each or P3 Im sure knows some.


Fremont, what is the real purpose behind this? It looks to me like just another money grab by taxing authorities. Seems like every time you turn around back there you need a permit for this and an inspection for that. A tech fixing brakes on a car don't need a permit nor do they need to be certified but if the brakes fail due to a screwup by the tech the driver could kill someone or cause tens of thousands of dollars damage. Not a lot of difference imho. I do agree there are a lot of idiots doing wints but there are also a lot of extremely competent people doing them. All this has to do with either the plumbers union or the counties are short on cash and needed another tax........


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## SwiftRes

FremontREO said:


> P3.
> 
> You are 100% correct. Did you hear from the Plumbing Board? I was informed every home that has a foreclosure filing or Sheriff sale will be required a plumbers certificate or its a $250 fine. I will only say Kenny is at work at the P&P guys wont be.
> 
> Swift if you need a master plumber I know 1 @ $200 each or P3 Im sure knows some.


I have used one for $70/hr for repairs. Have another one thats slightly less.

This applies also to winterizations even though no repairs or changes are being made to the plumbing?


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## Guest

$70/hr not bad for a Master Plumber... What I did not clarify was if permits are needed for every home? That adds to cost. I dont see why a permit is needed except to "track" that home at the city level. Still at a 1 hr minimum I see no profit. I was contacted by some former companies to "at least do winterizes" LOL- NOPE.

Mtmtnmn is right...its a money grab.


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## BPWY

I bet the service companies are screaming bloody murder over being forced to pay more for a licensed plumber.


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## Guest

Fremont you are spot on (as are you mt), and I personally have no issue with it whatsoever! I have my journeyman license and have a buddy who is a master and we just team up on these types of things. If I need a permit pulled I just have him handle it and I do the repairs. 
In any case I for one am glad that the State if finally taking an active role in making an effort to penalize these damn "handyman" types that think they can go in and slap on a shark bite and call it good. 

The way I see it is this. If they start actually going through the mass of foreclosures and auditing the plumbing systems, hence necessitating a fine sent to (guess who the fine will go to.....yep you guessed it) the title holder. That may help leverage some weight in these ridiculous pricing matrix' that we are seeing. 

I for one personally wish they would audit EVERY single foreclosure. Now if only the building inspectors would get on board as well...I'd love them to see some of these makeshift "safety" hazard cures that are being allowed.


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## SwiftRes

But that means we are going to be adding fines to the property owner, which in most cases will be homeowners when winterizing a pre sale. So the city is going to fine the homeowner because a bank hired a local contractor that performed an illegal service on the home. I can't wait till that hits the news.


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## Guest

SwiftRes said:


> I have used one for $70/hr for repairs. Have another one thats slightly less.
> 
> This applies also to winterizations even though no repairs or changes are being made to the plumbing?



That is a loaded question Swift. Technically your answer is No, it does not apply to performing a winterization. However, in principle to "properly" perform a winterization you have to do a couple different things that would absolutely require a licensed professional (for example pulling the meter). I would NEVER sign off on a winterization that was performed in which the main supply was not disconnected from the source and back blown. I don't care how big your compressor is, you simply cannot clear all the H2O from the system without doing it. 

Here's the thing: here in Polk Co. you have to pull a permit to change out a set of faucets, or even change a supply line to a toilet. Sounds absurd and it is, but it is technically on the books.


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## BPWY

SwiftRes said:


> But that means we are going to be adding fines to the property owner, which in most cases will be homeowners when winterizing a pre sale. So the city is going to fine the homeowner because a bank hired a local contractor that performed an illegal service on the home. I can't wait till that hits the news.







Likely it'd go to HUD or the bank since many times the former home owner has moved on..............address unknown.


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## SwiftRes

BPWY said:


> Likely it'd go to HUD or the bank since many times the former home owner has moved on..............address unknown.


Doubtful as they don't hold title, so I don't see how they could go after the bank.


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## Guest

My guess wold be that it will go as a lien against the property and title won't clear (to the future buyer) until fine is paid. A tough paper trail to follow I suspect.


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## SwiftRes

Depends on whether or not a city fine takes precedence over a mortgage on order of liens, like unpaid property taxes. If it does then you are right, but if it doesn't it would be wiped out at time of sheriff sale and citys only recourse would be directly against the homeowner.

Would be similar to a fine for overgrown lawns.


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## mtmtnman

P3+ said:


> Here's the thing: here in Polk Co. you have to pull a permit to change out a set of faucets, or even change a supply line to a toilet. Sounds absurd and it is, but it is technically on the books.



You have GOT to be chitting me!!!! All i can say is WOW, Just WOW!!!


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## SwiftRes

Although the city might be different than a normal lien holder. From personal experience with a rental property they are able to do things that a normal lien holder couldn't


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## mtmtnman

P3+, you mentioned Shark Bites. We have used them for years in underground utilities to fix "hot" lines. We usually bought them from the city water department as they had them in stock. I've installed DOZENS of them on one inch supply lines between the water main and the curb box. Typically these are used when the curb box goes bad and we are trying not to dig up the street to get to the corporation at the main. We cut the line back from the curb box hot, point the pipe in the air, slip a "shark bite" with a new curb valve over the end with the valve open, shut off the new valve and put it all back together. Haven't had one fail yet that i know of. Now if the valve we are replacing is NOT leaking we use a freeze machine and don't get a wet azz..............


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## Guest

I have no issue with shark bites. Problem is I see repair jobs in which they are installed in places that a rigid length is required. Like @ meters or water heaters. Too many contractors are just getting the property to hold pressure and move along. Not to mention those sb fittings are expensive.


Sentfrom my Asus Transformer


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## mtmtnman

P3+ said:


> I have no issue with shark bites. Problem is I see repair jobs in which they are installed in places that a rigid length is required. Like @ meters or water heaters. Too many contractors are just getting the property to hold pressure and move along. Not to mention those sb fittings are expensive.
> 
> 
> Sentfrom my Asus Transformer



I agree..................


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## Guest

P3+ said:


> That is a loaded question Swift. Technically your answer is No, it does not apply to performing a winterization. However, in principle to "properly" perform a winterization you have to do a couple different things that would absolutely require a licensed professional (for example pulling the meter). I would NEVER sign off on a winterization that was performed in which the main supply was not disconnected from the source and back blown. I don't care how big your compressor is, you simply cannot clear all the H2O from the system without doing it.
> 
> Here's the thing: here in Polk Co. you have to pull a permit to change out a set of faucets, or even change a supply line to a toilet. Sounds absurd and it is, but it is technically on the books.


FAS,Cyprexx,ect have for yrs tryed to get me to disscount the water meter. I refuse say locally water companies do not allow it. As far as getting all water out of main line to meter.


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## thanohano44

STARBABY said:


> FAS,Cyprexx,ect have for yrs tryed to get me to disscount the water meter. I refuse say locally water companies do not allow it. As far as getting all water out of main line to meter.


Here if you touch the meter you will be fined for tampering.


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## Guest

Don't worry....the fines will be paid by the contractor who did the winterize. TheGovernment backed loan programs have already been notified and assurances were "given" that plumbers would complete. The service companies wont be reimbursed without documentation and this will flow to the unlicensed contractor. 

Worse yet is the pre-sale property where entry becomes trespassing (with or without a valid workorder). The "setup" is complete courtesy of your local.....


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## Guest

im thinking about doing some winterizations this year. any advice on how to do them? just pour antifreeze in the toilets and sinks? seems easy enough. yes, i know i have tio take the before, during and after pics. im willing to do that


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## thanohano44

Paul Pfieffer said:


> im thinking about doing some winterizations this year. any advice on how to do them? just pour antifreeze in the toilets and sinks? seems easy enough. yes, i know i have tio take the before, during and after pics. im willing to do that


If you don't know how to do it, this is something you shouldn't do.


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## HollandPPC

thanohano44 said:


> If you don't know how to do it, this is something you shouldn't do.


He is either that stupid or just yanking some chains.


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## BPWY

Paul Pfieffer said:


> im thinking about doing some winterizations this year. any advice on how to do them? just pour antifreeze in the toilets and sinks? seems easy enough. yes, i know i have tio take the before, during and after pics. im willing to do that





You got it buddy. 


Also make sure you have good insurance. 








:whistling :whistling :whistling :whistling

sheeeeesh!!!!!!!!!


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## brm1109

I think you are missing a FEW IMPORTANT steps. But who am I too say.


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## GTX63

:laughing:


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## Guest

Paul Pfieffer said:


> im thinking about doing some winterizations this year. any advice on how to do them? just pour antifreeze in the toilets and sinks? seems easy enough. yes, i know i have tio take the before, during and after pics. im willing to do that


Yep that will do it. Just don't forget to remove the turds from the toilet before you dump the antifreeze in.


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## SwiftRes

P3+ said:


> Yep that will do it. Just don't forget to remove the turds from the toilet before you dump the antifreeze in.


Dang I knew I was missing a step. Do we need some sort of hazmat/biohazard license for that?


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## GTX63

Depending on the client, they may want the turd left so as to provide context to depth of the antifreeze in the toilet.


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## BPWY

Paul Pfieffer said:


> im thinking about doing some winterizations this year. any advice on how to do them? just pour antifreeze in the toilets and sinks? seems easy enough. yes, i know i have tio take the before, during and after pics. im willing to do that





Actually rv anti freeze is optional.

Red coolaid is a lot cheaper.


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## Guest

I've found the pink lemonade to be a closer match. 




BPWY said:


> Actually rv anti freeze is optional.
> 
> Red coolaid is a lot cheaper.


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## GTX63

Paul Pfieffer may be the guy we followed about three years ago doing wints with automotive antifreeze. The photos the client sent to us appeared that the green fluid had been photoshopped to red.


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## BPWY

P3+ said:


> I've found the pink lemonade to be a closer match.






Red coolaid is still cheaper. :thumbup:


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## BPWY

GTX63 said:


> Paul Pfieffer may be the guy we followed about three years ago doing wints with automotive antifreeze. The photos the client sent to us appeared that the green fluid had been photoshopped to red.






I've seen a couple of those "winterizes" over the years.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> I've seen a couple of those "winterizes" over the years.


me too:thumbsup: had to be and fng!

My x wife was a realtor and some of the compnies she had were getting realtors to winterrize them there self:thumbup:


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## BPWY

STARBABY said:


> me too:thumbsup: had to be and fng!
> 
> My x wife was a realtor and some of the compnies she had were getting realtors to winterrize them there self:thumbup:




Just freaking awesome.




Some of the discussions I've had over the years and the actions I've seen lead me to believe that it didn't require a high mark on the common sense test to pass the realtor license.


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## brm1109

I remember once I got an order to rewinterize a property because the other contractor for whatever reason had no photos.
I went to the property and a) they used duck tape to tape the toilets and b) they used regular anti freeze.
I called the company and told them I would not even touch this and am not getting involved. They couldn't understand what was wrong.


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## BPWY

brm1109 said:


> I remember once I got an order to rewinterize a property because the other contractor for whatever reason had no photos.
> I went to the property and a) they used duck tape to tape the toilets and b) they used regular anti freeze.
> I called the company and told them I would not even touch this and am not getting involved. They couldn't understand what was wrong.






Right or wrong I'd run enough pink in on top of it so that the before photos didn't show green. 

Plausible deniability.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Right or wrong I'd run enough pink in on top of it so that the before photos didn't show green.
> 
> Plausible deniability.


Cyprexx is wanting there vendor to remove all the water from toilet bowl with a pump,before adding anti frez. seems they are always adding more work.


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## mtmtnman

STARBABY said:


> Cyprexx is wanting there vendor to remove all the water from toilet bowl with a pump,before adding anti frez. seems they are always adding more work.


I've done that from the git go. Saves a TON of antifreeze. I can do a 2 bath house with a gallon............


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## thanohano44

STARBABY said:


> Cyprexx is wanting there vendor to remove all the water from toilet bowl with a pump,before adding anti frez. seems they are always adding more work.


We've been doing this since 2008.


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## SwiftRes

What kind of pumps do you guys use for this?


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## hammerhead

Small shop vac.


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## thanohano44

STARBABY said:


> Cyprexx is wanting there vendor to remove all the water from toilet bowl with a pump,before adding anti frez. seems they are always adding more work.


We've been doing this since 2008.


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## mtmtnman

I don't mess with a shop vac. Just something else to carry in the winter. For under $20 shipped you can get one of these....










http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MD4YNY...&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&ref=asc_df_B000MD4YNY


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## BPWY

For the amount of time wasted its hardly seems worth it.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> For the amount of time wasted its hardly seems worth it.


Takes a minute to suck out a toilet. What else do you do when the WH is draining??? BTW, Isn't it past your bed time????:whistling:whistling


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## BPWY

When the water heater is draining I'm usually taking condition photos.
And more than the 40 or so you take.

I never got bitched at for not enough photos.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:



> When the water heater is draining I'm usually taking condition photos.
> And more than the 40 or so you take.
> 
> I never got bitched at for not enough photos.




What is there to take photos of in a 5 yr old home? 6 of every room including ceilings in a 3 bed 2 bath home nets 48 pics if it has an attached garage. just did my 1st initial in 2 months the other night. 1 Cu Yd of debris outside, Interior spotless (house WAS for sale) 1 lock change, interior photos, basement, roof and exterior netted 68 pics. Many where duplicates to keep them off my back. The reason these companies are starting to ask for so many pictures is they are able to used the extras for an inspection THEY get paid for and you don't. Ask Fremont about that one..............


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## BPWY

And by taking less pics you get paid later for an inspection trip?

I highly doubt it.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> For the amount of time wasted its hardly seems worth it.


One more way to remove all doubt that freeze damage was due to your negligence.


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## mtmtnman

BPWY said:


> And by taking less pics you get paid later for an inspection trip?
> 
> I highly doubt it.


Let me reiterate, I never had any issues with how many pics i took till recently. I take enough pics where you could combine them in a virtual tour and cover the entire home. Now i take twice that many. Was told i needed 85 pics minimum on a re-secure last week. Took 10 pics of each room. 50% where duplicates. What they do with the extras i have no clue. I was told they where turning in extra inspections............


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> What is there to take photos of in a 5 yr old home? 6 of every room including ceilings in a 3 bed 2 bath home nets 48 pics if it has an attached garage. just did my 1st initial in 2 months the other night. 1 Cu Yd of debris outside, Interior spotless (house WAS for sale) 1 lock change, interior photos, basement, roof and exterior netted 68 pics. Many where duplicates to keep them off my back. The reason these companies are starting to ask for so many pictures is they are able to used the extras for an inspection THEY get paid for and you don't. Ask Fremont about that one..............


LOL. I've always suspected that. But I also know that Photos of each wall, ceiling and floor proves that there wasn't any unreported damages that you could be held responsible for should one magically arise by the other local FNG'S or hacks. 

Bid to inspect the crawl space and attic. They're usually too hot, to small and full of hazards you can't see. Advise them you need to bring in a ladder. That takes extra time and money. Hell, bid to bring a ladder that's used for that house only. They're not the only ones who can make ridiculous requests. 

We all know most Pp contractors aren't gc's. So why would you be carrying a ladder? Ask Fremont about this. Once you put a ladder up against a house, you become a roofer. In certain states you need to be a GC to be doing any kind of roof work. They request is to tarp, repair and replace a roof. If you do not report to your insurance provider that you do this type of work and an accident happens, you are out of luck pal. For what reason does any contractor have to be on a roof to take photos of it? To do work. Make sure you are allowed to that and are covered. If not, place in a bid for a
LGC to come in. 

Most of the work being done to these homes is to satisfy the CPI policy in case of vandalism, damages etc. ask Fremont what he'd charge to do a PCR or bid. You're looking at $500 easy. 2 can play this game.


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## mtmtnman

thanohano44 said:


> LOL. I've always suspected that. But I also know that Photos of each wall, ceiling and floor proves that there wasn't any unreported damages that you could be held responsible for should one magically arise by the other local FNG'S or hacks.
> 
> Bid to inspect the crawl space and attic. They're usually too hot, to small and full of hazards you can't see. Advise them you need to bring in a ladder. That takes extra time and money. Hell, bid to bring a ladder that's used for that house only. They're not the only ones who can make ridiculous requests.
> 
> We all know most Pp contractors aren't gc's. So why would you be carrying a ladder? Ask Fremont about this. Once you put a ladder up against a house, you become a roofer. In certain states you need to be a GC to be doing any kind of roof work. They request is to tarp, repair and replace a roof. If you do not report to your insurance provider that you do this type of work and an accident happens, you are out of luck pal. For what reason does any contractor have to be on a roof to take photos of it? To do work. Make sure you are allowed to that and are covered. If not, place in a bid for a
> LGC to come in.
> 
> Most of the work being done to these homes is to satisfy the CPI policy in case of vandalism, damages etc. ask Fremont what he'd charge to do a PCR or bid. You're looking at $500 easy. 2 can play this game.



All reasons i do very little P&P..............


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## thanohano44

mtmtnman said:


> All reasons i do very little P&P..............


Just today the homeowner of a home I was set to secure until I spoke with the listing agent a few weeks ago, called me. The realtor gave her my number to see if I was the one who cut off their padlocks, replaced them with MFS padlocks and stole their lawn tools. LOL. 

I said no. Looks like the local hack left his work order behind along with a drill and dead bolt cutter with his name on it. 

I think it's funny how I have reported this home occupied twice and documented that the home is in escrow. All utilities are on. The homeowner maintains the property. This sale is set to close on a week. All information I have reported. Yet the hack figured he would make. $200 to change 3 padlocks and a initial lawn. I see his name all over other properties we have done. I just don't know how this fellow is still working.


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## GTX63

BPWY said:


> .
> 
> I never got bitched at for not enough photos.


We'll take double and triple pics of items like lockbox codes, electrical meters, etc, just in case one is blurred or poor you have a backup. I no longer send guys back to photo a gas meter when they have ten months of gas meter pics in their files that are the exact same thing.


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> One more way to remove all doubt that freeze damage was due to your negligence.






I'd be worried about that if it ever happened. 


WY like AZ is super dry and probably at least 50% of the time by the time a wint was ordered the turlets had already dried out.

AND if a bowl is freezing and breaking after a wint was done properly one of two things happened. 
1. Some body breached the wint.
2. You didn't put any thing more than the smallest splash of RV anti freeze into the bowl.


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> LOL. I've always suspected that. But I also know that Photos of each wall, ceiling and floor proves that there wasn't any unreported damages that you could be held responsible for should one magically arise by the other local FNG'S or hacks.
> 
> Bid to inspect the crawl space and attic. They're usually too hot, to small and full of hazards you can't see. Advise them you need to bring in a ladder. That takes extra time and money. Hell, bid to bring a ladder that's used for that house only. They're not the only ones who can make ridiculous requests.
> 
> We all know most Pp contractors aren't gc's. So why would you be carrying a ladder? Ask Fremont about this. Once you put a ladder up against a house, you become a roofer. In certain states you need to be a GC to be doing any kind of roof work. They request is to tarp, repair and replace a roof. If you do not report to your insurance provider that you do this type of work and an accident happens, you are out of luck pal. For what reason does any contractor have to be on a roof to take photos of it? To do work. Make sure you are allowed to that and are covered. If not, place in a bid for a
> LGC to come in.
> 
> Most of the work being done to these homes is to satisfy the CPI policy in case of vandalism, damages etc. ask Fremont what he'd charge to do a PCR or bid. You're looking at $500 easy. 2 can play this game.





I told SG more than once my workers comp would not cover being on a roof that they needed to call a licensed roofer. 
As a 1x vendor they tend to listen a little better than their full timers.
The reason you are a 1x vendor is that they've been unable to get a full timer to cover that area.


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## BPWY

thanohano44 said:


> Just today the homeowner of a home I was set to secure until I spoke with the listing agent a few weeks ago, called me. The realtor gave her my number to see if I was the one who cut off their padlocks, replaced them with MFS padlocks and stole their lawn tools. LOL.
> 
> I said no. Looks like the local hack left his work order behind along with a drill and dead bolt cutter with his name on it.
> 
> I think it's funny how I have reported this home occupied twice and documented that the home is in escrow. All utilities are on. The homeowner maintains the property. This sale is set to close on a week. All information I have reported. Yet the hack figured he would make. $200 to change 3 padlocks and a initial lawn. I see his name all over other properties we have done. I just don't know how this fellow is still working.





I've seen similar work and wondered the same thing.


In this day of charge backs and lawsuits the guy must certainly lead a charmed life.


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## Guest

It's always been apparent to me that these guys that cut so many corners are quite crafty at what they do. 
I was checking out a hud house the other day for an investor. It had a walk up basement. Stairwell was roughly 4'wx8'h and it was literally to the brim with leaves & twigs. Had to be 2yrs worth of lawn debris packed in there.


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## thanohano44

BPWY said:


> I've seen similar work and wondered the same thing.
> 
> In this day of charge backs and lawsuits the guy must certainly lead a charmed life.


The home owner called me again this morning (wtf). She did a quick google search on the hack. Seems to have a record. Does MCS just hire any old hack? I know this is a hard area to cover an most contractors have told the nationals to F..K OFF with their requirements. But damn.


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## SwiftRes

thanohano44 said:


> The home owner called me again this morning (wtf). She did a quick google search on the hack. Seems to have a record. Does MCS just hire any old hack? I know this is a hard area to cover an most contractors have told the nationals to F..K OFF with their requirements. But damn.


I know they do a background check. What was the record for?


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## BPWY

SwiftRes said:


> I know they do a background check. What was the record for?






I'm sure when they get desperate enough the standards begin to slide.



As for MCS and the hack...................... Aren't they some of the worst offenders when it comes to frivolous charge backs??????????


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> I don't mess with a shop vac. Just something else to carry in the winter. For under $20 shipped you can get one of these....
> 
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> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MD4YNY...&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&ref=asc_df_B000MD4YNY


Thanks, just ordered one to try out. Hate using shop vac. (more crap to take with u)


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## JFMURFY

FremontREO said:


> $70/hr not bad for a Master Plumber... What I did not clarify was if permits are needed for every home? That adds to cost. I dont see why a permit is needed except to "track" that home at the city level. Still at a 1 hr minimum I see no profit. I was contacted by some former companies to "at least do winterizes" LOL- NOPE.
> 
> Mtmtnmn is right...its a money grab.


$70/hr for a Mstr Plumber? P1 plumber's here in CT are $125/hr. and they get it.


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## GTX63

I don't think some of the newbs on here realize that private sector wints are between $125 and $250 in our areas. No crazy photos, docs, forms, uploads all night, surprise chargeback emails 8 months later, etc.


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## RichR

STARBABY said:


> Thanks, just ordered one to try out. Hate using shop vac. (more crap to take with u)


BE CAREFUL !!!!!
As the inside starts to rust up and the seal starts to go bad toilet water tends to seep past the seal and as you pull the handle out sucking up that yummy toilet water it will SQUIRT out the end and right into your face as you are leaned over starring at the water level dropping in the toilet. Had it piss at me plenty of times.


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## mtmtnman

RichR said:


> BE CAREFUL !!!!!
> As the inside starts to rust up and the seal starts to go bad toilet water tends to seep past the seal and as you pull the handle out sucking up that yummy toilet water it will SQUIRT out the end and right into your face as you are leaned over starring at the water level dropping in the toilet. Had it piss at me plenty of times.


 Mine is still shiny inside. I give it a little silicone spray every so often......


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