# AFAS cut pricing- any comments?



## JDRM (Apr 16, 2012)

I hear they are at it again, eliminated the bundle pricing because they realized there was rarely alot of debris, made it sound like a favor to the vendors. Then cut everything else 30%


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*It will squeeze the contractors with*



JDRM said:


> I hear they are at it again, eliminated the bundle pricing because they realized there was rarely alot of debris, made it sound like a favor to the vendors. Then cut everything else 30%


employees out, that is probably about what their margin is now, if they are lucky. I will be reducing my coverage area, to offset pricing.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Call ten plumbers and tell them you will pay half of what they normally bill. Do you really want the ones that will agree to the job?


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## GG3 (Mar 3, 2013)

There is no mention on how they intend to deal with Wells Fargo snow removals and or landscaping BATF services other than continue with bidding protocol. Do they expect vendors to drive around bidding snow/grass/tree/shrub trimming. Ridiculous!!


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

GG3 said:


> There is no mention on how they intend to deal with Wells Fargo snow removals and or landscaping BATF services other than continue with bidding protocol. Do they expect vendors to drive around bidding snow/grass/tree/shrub trimming. Ridiculous!!


It's time to get out of the industry all together. There was a post prior about CA contractors filling law suit against AFAS and few other companies that miss-qualifying vendors as subs. I highly suggest calling the law firm to join the law suit.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

AFAS is one of the worst companies in the game. No clue why any one would do their work.


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## newreo (May 30, 2014)

Craigslist Hack said:


> AFAS is one of the worst companies in the game. No clue why any one would do their work.


same can be said about every single one of the companies out there.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*Unfortunately as bad as they are.*



Craigslist Hack said:


> AFAS is one of the worst companies in the game. No clue why any one would do their work.


They are not one of the worst. If they were there would still be some hope. I guess I've had about enough too. If I didn't only get the s$&t no one else wanted from them, I might give it a real effort, but it is what it is.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

They are definitely one of the worst! If you don't believe that go work for a decent company and get back to me in 6 months. 

All nationals suck but There are a few who don't have the ridiculous QC and pic requirements that AFAS has.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*When I think of the worst, I think of all the companies*



Craigslist Hack said:


> They are definitely one of the worst! If you don't believe that go work for a decent company and get back to me in 6 months.
> 
> All nationals suck but There are a few who don't have the ridiculous QC and pic requirements that AFAS has.


who do not pay, do not pay on time, construct arbitrary charge backs, cut bids, atempt to force orders on your company that you reject, those sorts of things. I have not experience any of those things with AFAS. That is why I say they are not in the league with the worst. Admittedly the bar is pretty low.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> who do not pay, do not pay on time, construct arbitrary charge backs, cut bids, atempt to force orders on your company that you reject, those sorts of things. I have not experience any of those things with AFAS. That is why I say they are not in the league with the worst. Admittedly the bar is pretty low.


I know a local "realtor" who does AFAS work and it's just sad. He has his realtors license but must not be able to sell Ice Cubes in the sahara. So he does AFAS work. We get all the good work at the properties while he rakes leaves and trims bushes. He is required to take a ridiculous amount of pica and he gets QC'd for ridiculous things all the time. Yes they seem pay consistently but the pay is absolute BS.

NFR
Service Link
Altisource
Prime Asset Fund
Statebridge
Vanderbuilt Mortgage
M&M Mortgage

I could go on and on ALL leaps and bounds better than AFAS.

AFAS is in the bottom of the barrel class with Safeguard, Cyprexx, 5 brothers, VRM, and AIM Your Way.

I would work for MSI before I would work for AFAS and at least the Brothers pay decent wages.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I believe it's the English you're having trouble with.*



Craigslist Hack said:


> I know a local "realtor" who does AFAS work and it's just sad. He has his realtors license but must not be able to sell Ice Cubes in the sahara. So he does AFAS work. We get all the good work at the properties while he rakes leaves and trims bushes. He is required to take a ridiculous amount of pica and he gets QC'd for ridiculous things all the time. Yes they seem pay consistently but the pay is absolute BS.
> 
> NFR
> Service Link
> ...


They are somewhere in the middle. I just made $2,000 in 6 hours, didn't break a sweat. If you can write a good bid you can get the money. I generally pull in $100 an hour on their standard orders, and don't worry about getting paid, that will rarely happen with the worst. Thanks for the list though. I'll check them out.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> They are somewhere in the middle. I just made $2,000 in 6 hours, didn't break a sweat. If you can write a good bid you can get the money. I generally pull in $100 an hour on their standard orders, and don't worry about getting paid, that will rarely happen with the worst. Thanks for the list though. I'll check them out.


My issue is more with the requirements and QC. I want paid for every single thing I do at a property. You want pics of the water heater but I'm there to seal a chimney? Pay me for it!

I rarely take more than 4-8 pics at a property these days.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*That peeves me a bit also.*



Craigslist Hack said:


> My issue is more with the requirements and QC. I want paid for every single thing I do at a property. You want pics of the water heater but I'm there to seal a chimney? Pay me for it!
> 
> I rarely take more than 4-8 pics at a property these days.


however some of the requirements that they don't have, like E&O and minimum coverage areas, are a trade off I can live with a few pictures don't cost me anything E&O and a large coverage area cost real money. Also the pricing model is well suited to me, I work by myself my overhead is very low. My main competition for AFAS work is a larger contractor with "1099 employees" we will call "contractors" about 40 miles away. We all want higher pricing, but his margins are far smaller than mine, with the new pricing from AFAS he may not be able to travel into my area at a profit. It may seem strange, but I could take a hit and still make good profit on this work, he will likely have to stay out of my backyard. Keep in mind Mortgage Field services is not my main business. I use it to level out cash flow more than anything. I made AMS pricing profitable, this is a cupcake for me.


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## BRADSConst (Oct 2, 2012)

Craigslist Hack said:


> I know a local "realtor" who does AFAS work and it's just sad. He has his realtors license but must not be able to sell Ice Cubes in the sahara. So he does AFAS work. We get all the good work at the properties while he rakes leaves and trims bushes. He is required to take a ridiculous amount of pica and he gets QC'd for ridiculous things all the time. Yes they seem pay consistently but the pay is absolute BS.
> 
> NFR
> Service Link
> ...


 Come on now CL Hack, not even including SEAS on your list? You are really going to hurt their feelings as they attempted to recruit in another thread.....:lol::lol::lol:


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> . . .Keep in mind Mortgage Field services is not my main business. I use it to level out cash flow more than anything. . .


Just curious,
If this were your main business, would your standards/requirements for choosing who you work with be different than they are now?


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

I would rather make more money, wouldn't everyone. That's not the point. I'm not willing to make the investment to cover a state or buy expensive insurance or invest my money in hiring and equipping a crew or multiple crews, that would be required to work for these other companies, and wait a year or two or three or never, down the road to realize a profit. I will find the price point where I can make a good margin, and complete quality work, legally and sustainably. My standards are high, as far as stability,history of payment, and capitalization. A few extra photos isn't going to make or break anyone. The fact is I can work at this price point and make a very good margin, your model may not allow that. I'm in the minor leagues and don't wish to be anywhere else in this industry. How can a responsible person look at the current state of this industry and make any other decision? I made money the second hour of the first day I did this kind of work. It has worked for me, and will continue to work.

I make no apologies about it.

You see it's not a simple yes or no proposition, it is a matter of risk vs. reward, investment vs. return, and above all control over every detail ensures I get paid for every job. You can not guarantee that with employees spread over a state. What can you really pay an employee in this business? Most of the mid level contractor in this business operate illegally with 1099 employees, I'm not willing to do that either. I take a haircut up front, mid level guys bleed continuously. Six of one/half dozen of the other.

And that's the name of that tune!


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## JMarsden92 (Nov 3, 2013)

*Afas*

I don't know how the others actually are when it comes to their photo requirements, but from everything I read AFAS has the most lax requirements. We don't have to have a card showing counts on each room, and some of the other photo requirements that I have read. AFAS has finally put themselves where the other nationals are in regards to pricing. If you have been with AFAS for any time then you know that they had some of the best pricing. I have already sent a memo that I will only work the current pricing if they start localizing areas to vendors. I have been assured that they are working on this because they feel less vendors is best. I haven't been screwed for pay to date. I haven't lost any money for backcharges. If you get a photo request because you screwed up... bite the bullet and go. They can't have you photo for just any reason. It must have something to do with the wo you are on. They have also made it so we do not have to do interior inspections at lawn cuttings anymore. Taking the good with the bad... I will stick with it for the time being. I always saw bad about the other guys and not much bad about AFAS. It seems to me the people that bitch and complain about certain companies obviously just don't understand how to do the work, or have just caused their company to be the pinacle of complaints and they are being forced out in the end.


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## PropPresPro (Apr 12, 2012)

JMarsden92 said:


> I don't know how the others actually are when it comes to their photo requirements, but from everything I read AFAS has the most lax requirements. We don't have to have a card showing counts on each room, and some of the other photo requirements that I have read. AFAS has finally put themselves where the other nationals are in regards to pricing. If you have been with AFAS for any time then you know that they had some of the best pricing. I have already sent a memo that I will only work the current pricing if they start localizing areas to vendors. I have been assured that they are working on this because they feel less vendors is best. I haven't been screwed for pay to date. I haven't lost any money for backcharges. If you get a photo request because you screwed up... bite the bullet and go. They can't have you photo for just any reason. It must have something to do with the wo you are on. They have also made it so we do not have to do interior inspections at lawn cuttings anymore. Taking the good with the bad... I will stick with it for the time being. I always saw bad about the other guys and not much bad about AFAS. It seems to me the people that bitch and complain about certain companies obviously just don't understand how to do the work, or have just caused their company to be the pinacle of complaints and they are being forced out in the end.


You are incorrect.
AFAS is one of the worst when it comes to photo requirements, and other requirements as well (especially their new insurance req's). AFAS' offered pay is less than ALL my current clients. I have been in this business for over 7 years now and have either been courted by or worked with most of the larger companies out there, with AFAS (FAS) being one that I have worked with, and I can tell you first hand, they are definately not the angelic company you wish to paint them to be, and it appears that they are only getting worse.
When you say "_It seems to me the people that bitch and complain about certain companies obviously just don't understand how to do the work_", are you basing that on your multiple years of experience working with many of these service companies or is it just a random one sided observation?


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Ohnojim said:


> however some of the requirements that they don't have, like E&O and minimum coverage areas, are a trade off I can live with a few pictures don't cost me anything E&O and a large coverage area cost real money. Also the pricing model is well suited to me, I work by myself my overhead is very low. My main competition for AFAS work is a larger contractor with "1099 employees" we will call "contractors" about 40 miles away. We all want higher pricing, but his margins are far smaller than mine, with the new pricing from AFAS he may not be able to travel into my area at a profit. It may seem strange, but I could take a hit and still make good profit on this work, he will likely have to stay out of my backyard. Keep in mind Mortgage Field services is not my main business. I use it to level out cash flow more than anything. I made AMS pricing profitable, this is a cupcake for me.


I was unaware that they didn't require E&O that is interesting. I like a larger coverage area because it's more money. We don't have the volume most areas have so it's not unusual to drive 300 miles and only service 2 properties or possibly even 1.

AMS was always profitable for me because I ONLY did the GMAC work. I got HUD with a 20% discount and they always approved my bids. At one point we were doing 30k a month with them pretty consistently.

If you like them good for you. It's not a knock on you but I don't see how any one can work for companies like this one. As long as people do they will keep screwing guys and taking work that could go to good companies.

None of the companies we work for require a whole state coverage. We pick our coverage area.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

JMarsden92 said:


> I don't know how the others actually are when it comes to their photo requirements, but from everything I read AFAS has the most lax requirements. We don't have to have a card showing counts on each room, and some of the other photo requirements that I have read. AFAS has finally put themselves where the other nationals are in regards to pricing. If you have been with AFAS for any time then you know that they had some of the best pricing. I have already sent a memo that I will only work the current pricing if they start localizing areas to vendors. I have been assured that they are working on this because they feel less vendors is best. I haven't been screwed for pay to date. I haven't lost any money for backcharges. If you get a photo request because you screwed up... bite the bullet and go. They can't have you photo for just any reason. It must have something to do with the wo you are on. They have also made it so we do not have to do interior inspections at lawn cuttings anymore. Taking the good with the bad... I will stick with it for the time being. I always saw bad about the other guys and not much bad about AFAS. It seems to me the people that bitch and complain about certain companies obviously just don't understand how to do the work, or have just caused their company to be the pinacle of complaints and they are being forced out in the end.


We understand how to do the work perfectly. We just aren't willing to do it unless we are getting paid. I want paid for each and every item no package deals. I have seen 2 local guys that were decent contractors go broke while working for FAS. We were in the same office with one company and they would always come ask me how we make this or that profitable and I would laugh at them. We don't do half that stuff and if we did we would charge a premium.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*I neither endorse them nor do I think they are*

a great company, but they answer the phone, they pay on time, they work with you on problems, they are always polite and helpful. they are not going to go broke next week and fall off the radar. 

I don't do a lot for them. I do get a lot of bids and have done well with that part. I'm always looking for something better. With all the pure scum in the business I just wouldn't qualify them as the worst.

I think if anyone takes a moment to really look at it honestly, and not from the "hey. look I work for better clients then you" perspective they would have to come to the same conclusion. The fact is there is some money to be made, the requirements are spelled out for you clearly. I'm not one to agree to a contract and them bitch about it.I have lots of nice construction projects coming up, and may continue with them or may not, or somewhere in between. 

I could easily become a P&P contractor full time, and wipe the floor with the inefficient borderline legal idiots that populate this industry for the most part. I don't see the point.

Let's also keep in mind, luck and timing are a big factor, probably bigger than the price sheet. I went to do a close initial secure, it was previously "winterized" by LPS, I've been following that moron contractor around for a couple years now. Naturally it is frozen, the temps will be above freezing for a couple days, that should be an easy 'controlled thaw. If, you're lucky enough to follow behind incompetent guys like that they always leave you some easy money. Or the guy who does the 20+ yard trash out, I turned down for $325 and leaves behind the burned up sump pump that you make $200 on in 15 minutes. Or doen't try to sell a dehumidifier, etc. You can make the money, if you look for it, and sell it as long as you know you will get paid.


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## Yeah (Feb 9, 2015)

I started working with FAS around 2005. At that time we were getting paid $150 for winterizations/dewinterizations, $23/cyd debris, $65 per lock etc. Its pretty sad to see that 10 years later every single line item that they pay out has been reduced. Not to mention the cost of doing business has increased every year since then.


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## Craigslist Hack (Jun 14, 2012)

Yeah said:


> I started working with FAS around 2005. At that time we were getting paid $150 for winterizations/dewinterizations, $23/cyd debris, $65 per lock etc. Its pretty sad to see that 10 years later every single line item that they pay out has been reduced. Not to mention the cost of doing business has increased every year since then.


They have gone down from $23.00 a cyd and people sing the praises of this company? The HUD pricing is $50.00.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

It's 37.50 right now on HUD type orders or 75%. There are conventional loans that are even less than than 23, it can go as low 18. We won't do them,unless there is something there that makes it worthwhile. When it goes to 30 for all orders who knows. Just thought I'd give you the facts. Some states may be different, I don't know.Actually it will be going up to 30 on loan types that are less than that now.


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## PPArt (Jun 3, 2014)

When I signed up with AFAS, the price sheet didn't look too bad but after a month of only conventional loan orders we had to part ways.


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## Ohnojim (Mar 25, 2013)

*As long as they're not conventional REO trash outs*



PPArt said:


> When I signed up with AFAS, the price sheet didn't look too bad but after a month of only conventional loan orders we had to part ways.


it's not too bad. But if they try to stick you with all of them, it's pointless. I just deny them.


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