# Help a brotha out......



## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

I have the opportunity (it's my job if I want it) to do a rather large demo job. It's an ex medical clinic, built in 1955 and 4,800 square feet of finished space. The demo will be to bring the space back to an open shell for future tenant build outs. 
I THINK (or pray), I have my bases covered on the number I am going to submit. But out of curiousity I'd love to hear how you all would bid this bad boy out...particularly those of you using Exactimate. I don't use any software per say, but on occasion will pull out the Estimate Master (I'm not fond of it at all). 

Some details that weren't provided above: 
Divided into 27 rooms
2 load bearing walls that run the span
17 sinks
6 toilet rooms
5 100amp service panels
Double ceiling: 1x1 acoustic with a 2x4 drop ceiling built below it

Bid will NOT include any remediation if needed (I suspect possibility of asbestos VCT tile). Getting it tested this week. 

See pics:


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

More Pics


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## Buster9121 (Aug 10, 2012)

go by dumpsters needed and man power figure 7 days to be comfortable with 7 guys per day plus 4-6 dumpsters


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## Irnhrse5 (Apr 18, 2013)

This is what I would bid. I'll add the caveat that I've never done this exact kind of demo job before, and I may be a little high, or a little low, but, that's why you come to a forum like this right? I know there are plenty of professionals who will set me on the right track on this forum. Anyway, here it is:

$20 a man hour x 7 men x 84 hours = $11,760
8 dumpsters at 300 a piece = $2400
$20 to remove each fixture x 23 (6 toilets and 17 sinks) = $460
$5 to cap each fixture x 23 = $115

So I would bid $14,735. 

Ironhorse 5


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## wmhlc (Oct 8, 2012)

Is it plaster or drywall.

1955 would plaster so that's a lot more work. Also check and see if its got wire mesh in it or is plaster and lath.

If its plaster check it for lead and asbestos because in 1955 they used both

My software shows 15,435.78 for that job. That includes pulling all screws nails and dumpster. 

If it plaster and lath the price is 19650


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

Nice. Is that exactimate? If so...damn I am GOOD. I am dead nuts on in my numbers. I have some hidden add-ins as a CYA measure, but I came up with $19,600 as a bare bones number with no wiggle.
And yes, it is plaster w/wire mesh on exterior walls (drywall on interiors). Testing to follow later this week....on the owner. It it tests positive for asbestos "I'm Out". Simple as that. 




wmhlc said:


> Is it plaster or drywall.
> 
> 1955 would plaster so that's a lot more work. Also check and see if its got wire mesh in it or is plaster and lath.
> 
> ...


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

Not bad, but I think you may be leaving $ on the table. I don't bill out any less than $35 per man hour, and $5 per cap is a steal! Don't forget to build in PPE equipment, oversight/management fee, bringing in potable water, generator costs, kybo fees. 




Irnhrse5 said:


> This is what I would bid. I'll add the caveat that I've never done this exact kind of demo job before, and I may be a little high, or a little low, but, that's why you come to a forum like this right? I know there are plenty of professionals who will set me on the right track on this forum. Anyway, here it is:
> 
> $20 a man hour x 7 men x 84 hours = $11,760
> 8 dumpsters at 300 a piece = $2400
> ...


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## Irnhrse5 (Apr 18, 2013)

Hey as I said, no software, and I didn't know it was plaster! I Appreciate you giving me some pointers. Right now we only demo outbuildings and small structures like chicken coops. I'd love to get into large demos like this one.

Ironhorse 5


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## P3+ (Aug 16, 2012)

Chicken coops....wouldn't a match be cheaper?:thumbsup:



Irnhrse5 said:


> Hey as I said, no software, and I didn't know it was plaster! I Appreciate you giving me some pointers. Right now we only demo outbuildings and small structures like chicken coops. I'd love to get into large demos like this one.
> 
> Ironhorse 5


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## Irnhrse5 (Apr 18, 2013)

Yea but I could say the same about 90% of the properties I service right now! And the last chicken coop we tore down was maybe 5x5, paid $450, and was torn apart and on a trailer in 10 minutes.


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

Xactimate demo rates stink so don't use those 

Hourly rate for Demo labor is $45.63 for DSM. We usually figure our hours and add 20% (in hours) to the bid. Add on the dumpsters extra.

To stay "legally" in business we try to keep in the $60.00/hr figure so the bills keep getting paid.


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## GTX63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yes, the intangibles can make a big difference in the final numbers. Without an onsite walk thru, 14K would be about my cost, before any margins added in. One thing to remember, in our experience lenders don't care much for change orders. Build enough cusion into your numbers that you can cover the unforseen, or make sure you have the language in your contracts.


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## dryBgerG (Feb 1, 2013)

Wannabe said:


> Xactimate demo rates stink so don't use those
> 
> Hourly rate for Demo labor is $45.63 for DSM. We usually figure our hours and add 20% (in hours) to the bid. Add on the dumpsters extra.
> 
> To stay "legally" in business we try to keep in the $60.00/hr figure so the bills keep getting paid.


Wow someone who gets you can't run a legit business on $20.00 hour labor!!!:thumbup:


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## Splinterpicker (Apr 18, 2012)

P3+ said:


> I have the opportunity (it's my job if I want it) to do a rather large demo job. It's an ex medical clinic, built in 1955 and 4,800 square feet of finished space. The demo will be to bring the space back to an open shell for future tenant build outs.
> I THINK (or pray), I have my bases covered on the number I am going to submit. But out of curiousity I'd love to hear how you all would bid this bad boy out...particularly those of you using Exactimate. I don't use any software per say, but on occasion will pull out the Estimate Master (I'm not fond of it at all).
> 
> Some details that weren't provided above:
> ...


MAKE DAMN SURE TO HAVE A "HIDDEN DAMAGES "CLAUSE damage that was concealed in a wall ETC !!


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## Wannabe (Oct 1, 2012)

dryBgerG said:


> Wow someone who gets you can't run a legit business on $20.00 hour labor!!!:thumbup:


 
I truly don't understand how anyone can charge $20.00/hr to a client today and expect to: Pay building payment/lease, pay insurance, pay for vehicles, pay work comp, pay Gen liability, pay Commercial Auto, pay unemployment, pay social security, pay utilities, pay for repairs, pay for permits, pay for OSHA required gear, pay, pay, pay, pay etc etc etc.......


AND still turn a profit :whistling2:


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## Gypsos (Apr 30, 2012)

Wannabe said:


> I truly don't understand how anyone can charge $20.00/hr to a client today and expect to: Pay building payment/lease, pay insurance, pay for vehicles, pay work comp, pay Gen liability, pay Commercial Auto, pay unemployment, pay social security, pay utilities, pay for repairs, pay for permits, pay for OSHA required gear, pay, pay, pay, pay etc etc etc.......
> 
> 
> AND still turn a profit :whistling2:


I agree completely. 

When I was a full time estimator/PM for commercial construction we always charged at least $35 per hour, with few exceptions. 

I believe if you do a detailed cost analysis you will find out that the labor costs alone will run you the gross hourly rate times about 1.4 for basic laborers and journeymen for regular construction type work.

That means a $15 per hour employee costs you $21 per hour with taxes and insurance. That leaves $14 per hour to cover everything else - gas, auto insurance, rent, phones, electricity, internet, office supplies, tools, blades, tool rental, dumpsters, PPE, supervision labor, office staff and anything else you have to buy to keep your business going and hopefully have a bit left over you can call profit. 

$20 per hour is what I used to get as a WC exempt piece worker to frame, hang and finish when a piece rate could not be established. My over head was my truck, my tools, CGL insurance and my phone.


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