# Are there such a thing as blue antifreeze for Wint?



## Guest

Are these a blue RV antifreeze for wint.?


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## thanohano44

MichiganREO said:


> Are these a blue RV antifreeze for wint.?


Toilet bowl cleaner.


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## REO2Rentals

thanohano44 said:


> Toilet bowl cleaner.


These vendors/workers or whatever they lable themselves need some serious training:clap:


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## REO2Rentals

thanohano44 said:


> Toilet bowl cleaner.


or Windshield fluid:whistling


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## thanohano44

MichiganREO said:


> These vendors/workers or whatever they lable themselves need some serious training:clap:


Sometimes the residue from the toilet bowl cleaner needs to be extracted. Some don't require it. As long as you have photos showing your rv anti freeze you are good.


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## Guest

There is an anti freeze that is non toxic, used for pool closings in the north to prevent pipes from freezing..but it ain't that blue!


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## JFMURFY

MichiganREO said:


> Are these a blue RV antifreeze for wint.?


Yes there is... mailnly boiler anti-freeze... but its not RV


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## BPWY

Toilet bowl cleaner blue residue over powers the pink in RV antifreeze.


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## Guest

*re*

You can get antifreeze in any color you want but when you order it in custom colors you get pure propolene glycol which has the consistency of corn syrup (much better then the crap at menards because you can do 3 or 4 wints with 1 gallon of it so less to carry) and it makes the water look a little "creamier" then that. I'm thinking that is toilet bowel cleaner because its too dark to be washer fluid.


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## GTX63

The fluid is too dark, but I have also followed up clowns that have tried to use windshield washer fluid. They just arent smart enough to know better.


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## Guest

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GTX63 said:


> The fluid is too dark, but I have also followed up clowns that have tried to use windshield washer fluid. They just arent smart enough to know better.


The thing I don't get is how much cheaper is washer fluid then antifreeze? $1/gal? so is it worth risking a broken toilet or trap to save $1? You could do 200 houses and even a minor problem kills all the extra profit you made.


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## GTX63

They are hacks new to the business. They don't equip their trucks (or hatchback) with supplies or the proper tools, and they don't want to leave the site and drive 10 minutes to the local builders supply house. So they use whatever rolls out of the truck bed.


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## Guest

Even if they had put the pink rv antifreeze in there with the blue cleaner, it would have made it purple.


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## Guest

GTX63 said:


> They are hacks new to the business. They don't equip their trucks (or hatchback) with supplies or the proper tools, and they don't want to leave the site and drive 10 minutes to the local builders supply house. So they use whatever rolls out of the truck bed.


Hey now, don't be hating on the hatchbacks. My old trusty Golf gets 50mpg, which makes the difference when you drive 500 miles some day. 

20mpg truck = 25 gallons 
50 mpg tdi= 10 gallons

Savings = $60

You do this 3 days a week sometimes and that is kind of a nice chunk of change


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## GTX63

Is that 50 mpg while pulling your 16' tandem axle dump trailer?


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## Guest

GTX63 said:


> Is that 50 mpg while pulling your 16' tandem axle dump trailer?


well said ,any real contractor wouldn`t have a use for a small car! Yes I know on some the inspection, do other work while in the area always need a truck!:thumbsup:


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## mtmtnman

STARBABY said:


> well said ,any real contractor wouldn`t have a use for a small car! Yes I know on some the inspection, do other work while in the area always need a truck!:thumbsup:



I have a 92 Explorer i use all winter. Roll my gas compressor in the back with a couple cases of anti-freeze and toss my Honda EU2000 along side and roll out. It's a LOT more nimble on snowy roads and gets 20+ MPG on gas VS 14 mpg with the diesel truck. We see VERY little trash even on the PPO side and if we do it is a bid item anyways. I arrange trash for a day i am running the truck and dump trailer.....


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## Guest

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STARBABY said:


> well said ,any real contractor wouldn`t have a use for a small car! Yes I know on some the inspection, do other work while in the area always need a truck!:thumbsup:


To each his own, I just prefer to keep my overhead low and my profits high. We have been doing this a long time (longer then most on this board I would imagine) and so we've gotten pretty good at squeezing every last bit of profit while still doing a quality job. For example I make a killing on $25-30 lawn cuts, while most say it can't be done.


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## Guest

nurumkin said:


> For example I make a killing on $25-30 lawn cuts, while most say it can't be done.


That line made me laugh. No offense. I never heard of anyone saying their making a killing when getting $25.


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## Guest

BamBamm5144 said:


> That line made me laugh. No offense. I never heard of anyone saying their making a killing when getting $25.


I do when I get that a ft to lay tile... :jester:


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## Guest

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BamBamm5144 said:


> That line made me laugh. No offense. I never heard of anyone saying their making a killing when getting $25.


It all depends on how many you do in a day.


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## GTX63

nurumkin said:


> For example I make a killing on $25-30 lawn cuts, while most say it can't be done.



Sorry. :laughing:


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## Guest

How many can you do in a day?


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## GTX63




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## Guest

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ohiohomedoctor said:


> How many can you do in a day?



I average 25


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## Guest

nurumkin said:


> I average 25


How many guys?


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## Guest

ohiohomedoctor said:


> How many guys?


Just me


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## thanohano44

nurumkin said:


> Just me


Wouldn't you rather make $75 each?


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## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> Wouldn't you rather make $75 each?


I have a $250 minimum so they never call me.


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## Guest

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thanohano44 said:


> Wouldn't you rather make $75 each?



Of course I would, but I would rather have the volume. By doing it this way they give me a couple hundred a month. I'd rather make $25 on 200 a month, especially since I know exactly when they are coming so I can plan my schedule around them. I've known way to many guys that make a stand on not being paid enough for a specific job and then end up driving across the state to do 2 lawns at $75 when I drive to the same town and do 35.


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## Guest

nurumkin said:


> Of course I would, but I would rather have the volume. By doing it this way they give me a couple hundred a month. I'd rather make $25 on 200 a month, especially since I know exactly when they are coming so I can plan my schedule around them. I've known way to many guys that make a stand on not being paid enough for a specific job and then end up driving across the state to do 2 lawns at $75 when I drive to the same town and do 35.


Thanona can teach you how to keep those and charge $65 each. I can teach you how to charge enough to never have to mow again.


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## thanohano44

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thanona can teach you how to keep those and charge $65 each. I can teach you how to charge enough to never have to mow again.


Ohio, how bout them Buckeyes? Dennard guaranteed a victory over you guys and said he could beat Usain Bolt in the 40!!!!!


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## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> Ohio, how bout them Buckeyes? Dennard guaranteed a victory over you guys and said he could beat Usain Bolt in the 40!!!!!


Love those buckeyes. Usain bolt could push mow 50 yards a day
... :laughing:

Dennard is a jackazz


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## thanohano44

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Love those buckeyes. Usain bolt could push mow 50 yards a day
> ... :laughing:
> 
> Dennard is a jackazz


LOL. He is Jamaican!! 

How do you like coach Meyer?


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## Guest

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ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thanona can teach you how to keep those and charge $65 each. I can teach you how to charge enough to never have to mow again.


I've talked to enough people that think they have the answer, but the truth of it is I've never seen any of them hit it big. My overhead is low enough that I comfortably make into 6 figures working about 3/4 time and that is exactly how I like it.


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## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> LOL. He is Jamaican!!
> 
> How do you like coach Meyer?


Dont so far.. He will not be the coach long unless we win the national championship.


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## thanohano44

nurumkin said:


> I've talked to enough people that think they have the answer, but the truth of it is I've never seen any of them hit it big. My overhead is low enough that I comfortably make into 6 figures working about 3/4 time and that is exactly how I like it.


I guess if that works for you than great. The lowest I can actually do recuts for a turn a profit is $45. 

Fuel
Labor
Insurance 
Maintenance
Processing
E&O
QuikPro


When we started we were getting. $100 each cut. Then came the competitive bid process. I went down to $75 to get all of the work. And we did for 2 years. Now people are fighting for $25 recuts. I cannot compete with that. There's already people doing $10 recuts in Phoenix. What's to come next is scary.


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## Guest

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thanohano44 said:


> I guess if that works for you than great. The lowest I can actually do recuts for a turn a profit is $45.
> 
> Fuel
> Labor
> Insurance
> Maintenance
> Processing
> E&O
> QuikPro
> 
> 
> When we started we were getting. $100 each cut. Then came the competitive bid process. I went down to $75 to get all of the work. And we did for 2 years. Now people are fighting for $25 recuts. I cannot compete with that. There's already people doing $10 recuts in Phoenix. What's to come next is scary.


$10 is pretty low, I'm pretty sure I could turn a profit but not enough to make it worth getting out of bed. But I applaud them if they have found a way to make it work. I would assume they probably don't do a very good job, but if that is all the service company wants out of them then who are we to argue. 

If someone asks me to paint their house and offers me $100 I will tell them that for $100 all I can do is hook up my sprayer and walk around the house with no prep work. But if that person says "that is all I want" then they will get exactly what they pay/ask for.


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## thanohano44

nurumkin said:


> $10 is pretty low, I'm pretty sure I could turn a profit but not enough to make it worth getting out of bed. But I applaud them if they have found a way to make it work. I would assume they probably don't do a very good job, but if that is all the service company wants out of them then who are we to argue.
> 
> If someone asks me to paint their house and offers me $100 I will tell them that for $100 all I can do is hook up my sprayer and walk around the house with no prep work. But if that person says "that is all I want" then they will get exactly what they pay/ask for.


You don't try to up sell and put forth your best workman ship to get more work?


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## Guest

thanohano44 said:


> You don't try to up sell and put forth your best workman ship to get more work?


Of course I put forth my best workmanship, but I also provide them exactly what they ask for. I used to have a guy that would fight with us over how he thought it should be done. He would say stuff like "well if they want that then they are stupid" I used to respond "if they want to pay me to paint a house purple with pokadots guess what they are going to get? It doesn't matter if I think its stupid or not"


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## mtmtnman

I can do one wint on a vacation home here for a private client and in the hour and 1/2 it takes me, make what i would make in a whole day doing bank owned wints. Usually i'll get paid on the spot too boot! This also leaves me with a dewint in the spring as well as a spring lawn cleanup and likely a lawn service the rest of the year!! I would rather work an hour and a half and go fishing the rest of the day than drive all over hell doing 4 bank owned wints (that's about all you can get here a day as they will be spread out over 200 miles) for peanuts and then have to go home and upload damn pictures plus wait for 45 days for payment!!!


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## Guest

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mtmtnman said:


> I can do one wint on a vacation home here for a private client and in the hour and 1/2 it takes me, make what i would make in a whole day doing bank owned wints. Usually i'll get paid on the spot too boot! This also leaves me with a dewint in the spring as well as a spring lawn cleanup and likely a lawn service the rest of the year!! I would rather work an hour and a half and go fishing the rest of the day than drive all over hell doing 4 bank owned wints (that's about all you can get here a day as they will be spread out over 200 miles) for peanuts and then have to go home and upload damn pictures plus wait for 45 days for payment!!!


Honestly that is why this business isn't for everyone, I don't like dealing with the public because it's too much hassle. So I leave that to people like you and you leave this stuff to people like me. In the end hopefully we both make a good living. 

This entire discussion started because someone started making fun of people who operate differently then they do and I was trying to point out that just because you think you know the proper and only way to do something doesn't mean your right. One of my competitors makes fun of the fact that I own several bobcats that are all 30 years old, he owns 1 that is brand new. I bought all of mine for 1/4 what he paid for his 1 new one. This means that I can leave them at my various properties around the state and I always have one close. 

Which one of us is right? Well thats the fun part neither is.


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## mtmtnman

nukinrum said:


> Honestly that is why this business isn't for everyone, I don't like dealing with the public because it's too much hassle. So I leave that to people like you and you leave this stuff to people like me. In the end hopefully we both make a good living.
> 
> This entire discussion started because someone started making fun of people who operate differently then they do and I was trying to point out that just because you think you know the proper and only way to do something doesn't mean your right. One of my competitors makes fun of the fact that I own several bobcats that are all 30 years old, he owns 1 that is brand new. I bought all of mine for 1/4 what he paid for his 1 new one. This means that I can leave them at my various properties around the state and I always have one close.
> 
> Which one of us is right? Well thats the fun part neither is.


Oh don't get me wrong, I had no problem doing bank owned wints when they paid $100 less discount. It's the $45 requests i get that piss me off. I can easily log 200 miles a day for 4 wints. That alone is $40- $50 in fuel at current prices NOT TAKING IN ACCOUNT THE VEHICLE WEAR AND TEAR, (figure .25 cents a mile on the low side for tires, depreciation, oil changes, repairs) plus at least $15 in Anti-Freeze, LABELS ect. No i have to go home and do wint checklist and photo uploads, there's another 1/2 hour per property.


4 wints will pay $180
Subtract:
Fuel $50
Wear and tear $50
Supplies $15
So i worked all day for $65?? Now on that so called "profit" i have to pay state and federal income tax and self employment tax. Figure 30% so i worked all day for $45. and i never included my insurance in this scenario.

nukinrum, If you where to break out your days like i just did at the prices your quoting i'm 100% positive you will be loosing money.........


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## SwiftRes

mtmtnman said:


> Oh don't get me wrong, I had no problem doing bank owned wints when they paid $100 less discount. It's the $45 requests i get that piss me off. I can easily log 200 miles a day for 4 wints. That alone is $40- $50 in fuel at current prices NOT TAKING IN ACCOUNT THE VEHICLE WEAR AND TEAR, (figure .25 cents a mile on the low side for tires, depreciation, oil changes, repairs) plus at least $15 in Anti-Freeze, LABELS ect. No i have to go home and do wint checklist and photo uploads, there's another 1/2 hour per property.
> 
> 
> 4 wints will pay $180
> Subtract:
> Fuel $50
> Wear and tear $50
> Supplies $15
> So i worked all day for $65?? Now on that so called "profit" i have to pay state and federal income tax and self employment tax. Figure 30% so i worked all day for $45. and i never included my insurance in this scenario.
> 
> nukinrum, If you where to break out your days like i just did at the prices your quoting i'm 100% positive you will be loosing money.........


We are getting into this discussion on different types of regions and homes though. I agree, I'd never do a wint for $45, but even using that math, on a dense urban city, people have said they could do 10 in a day. On our urban lawns, if we do 10-18 lawns in a day, we cover maybe 50 miles. So thats $450 for 10 wints and driving 50 miles.


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## mtmtnman

SwiftRes said:


> We are getting into this discussion on different types of regions and homes though. I agree, I'd never do a wint for $45, but even using that math, on a dense urban city, people have said they could do 10 in a day. On our urban lawns, if we do 10-18 lawns in a day, we cover maybe 50 miles. So thats $450 for 10 wints and driving 50 miles.


You missed he was averaging $25 per. Also in a dense area you might as well count on 2 people. 1 to work and 1 to babysit the truck....................


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## Guest

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mtmtnman said:


> Oh don't get me wrong, I had no problem doing bank owned wints when they paid $100 less discount. It's the $45 requests i get that piss me off. I can easily log 200 miles a day for 4 wints. That alone is $40- $50 in fuel at current prices NOT TAKING IN ACCOUNT THE VEHICLE WEAR AND TEAR, (figure .25 cents a mile on the low side for tires, depreciation, oil changes, repairs) plus at least $15 in Anti-Freeze, LABELS ect. No i have to go home and do wint checklist and photo uploads, there's another 1/2 hour per property.
> 
> 
> 4 wints will pay $180
> Subtract:
> Fuel $50
> Wear and tear $50
> Supplies $15
> So i worked all day for $65?? Now on that so called "profit" i have to pay state and federal income tax and self employment tax. Figure 30% so i worked all day for $45. and i never included my insurance in this scenario.
> 
> nukinrum, If you where to break out your days like i just did at the prices your quoting i'm 100% positive you will be loosing money.........



Well like I said I've been doing this for a while and for some reason my savings acct grows by 5 figures every year and I paid off my house this year so I must be doing something right.


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## JFMURFY

"...4 wints will pay $180"

Sorry doing a wintz for $45 sets a bad precedant for the industry. Plumbers make anywhere from $80 to $125 an hour; although most of us are not licensed plumbers it does set a bench mark for comparision, and $45 doesn't even fill the tank on the truck @ $4.25 per gallon.


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## GTX63

nurumkin said:


> This entire discussion started because someone started making fun of people who operate differently then they do and I was trying to point out that just because you think you know the proper and only way to do something doesn't mean your right. One of my competitors makes fun of the fact that I own several bobcats that are all 30 years old, he owns 1 that is brand new. I bought all of mine for 1/4 what he paid for his 1 new one.


I got into trashouts all by myself. No helpers, office staff, just me.
The rates the clients paid back then isn't my point; I did what I needed to make a living and survive. I got to the position where I was popping 10K in the bank every month. We are now a cash only biz. My other businesses grew in similar ways as well. I have no shame in my 1998 763 Bobcat. The checks I get from it cash the same as if we had a new one. 
Most newbs starting up on this form are clue challenged. Being able to succeed and flourish is a great feat. Congradulations. 
Here is something to think about since you have survived:
If your doing 100 mows per month at $25, why not market yourself so that your doing 75 mows at $35? Its $125 more per month and maybe 20 less manhours. 60 x $45 is $2700.
Always try to make your company smarter and more efficient.


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## JDRM

Thanahano, please hook me up with $75 cuts here in detroit, I will give you $20 per cut. Thanks in advance. :thumbsup:


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## Guest

JFMURFY said:


> "...4 wints will pay $180"
> 
> Sorry doing a wintz for $45 sets a bad precedant for the industry. Plumbers make anywhere from $80 to $125 an hour; although most of us are not licensed plumbers it does set a bench mark for comparision, and $45 doesn't even fill the tank on the truck @ $4.25 per gallon.


Winterizations are not plumber work, using plumbers as a bench mark is kind of like saying "well a surgeon makes $200 an hour so that is the benchmark for me putting a band aid on your owie". I don't like doing winterizations (just not fun work for me) but I will do 10 all day long at $45. This is where that little TDI car you guys made fun of comes in handy.


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## HollandPPC

nurumkin said:


> Winterizations are not plumber work, using plumbers as a bench mark is kind of like saying "well a surgeon makes $200 an hour so that is the benchmark for me putting a band aid on your owie". I don't like doing winterizations (just not fun work for me) but I will do 10 all day long at $45. This is where that little TDI car you guys made fun of comes in handy.


The more you talk the more you sound like a crappy regional. $25.00 recuts and you are making a fortune. $45.00 WNTZ and you are doing great, give me a break. If you want I can send you a list of all the scumbag companies that pay even less so you can make that good money?
Oh and do you get 10 WNTZ everyday to run an efficient route to make money?
I think you are making one hell of an effort to blow smoke up people's A** and I and not buying.


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## mtmtnman

nurumkin said:


> Winterizations are not plumber work, using plumbers as a bench mark is kind of like saying "well a surgeon makes $200 an hour so that is the benchmark for me putting a band aid on your owie". I don't like doing winterizations (just not fun work for me) but I will do 10 all day long at $45. This is where that little TDI car you guys made fun of comes in handy.


Pretty tough getting a proper air compressor for winterization into a Jetta. And if you're using a twin tank like somebody would use for their finish nailer with a generator to power it, guaranteed you're not getting all the water out of the system. There is a guy up here running around doing the same thing with a little twin tank and I end up with the properties on the REO side. Guess what? 90 percent of them have some sort of broken plumbing. 10 CFM is the minimum I will allow any of my guys to use for an air compressor when doing winterizes. You can't get a 10 CFM compressor into a Jetta. I use a 6hp gas 12.4 cfm. 

The whole point in this discussion is when you take cheap work, the Nationals expect everybody to take cheap work because according to them everybody has the same cost of business and we all live 100 foot apart from each other. I would love to see you cover rural Minnesota where you're jobs are fifty to seventy five miles apart from each other. You would be bankrupt in 2 months.


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## BPWY

nurumkin said:


> Winterizations are not plumber work, using plumbers as a bench mark is kind of like saying "well a surgeon makes $200 an hour so that is the benchmark for me putting a band aid on your owie". I don't like doing winterizations (just not fun work for me) but I will do 10 all day long at $45. This is where that little TDI car you guys made fun of comes in handy.







Actually you are totally wrong.


Plumbing codes are that plumbers are supposed to be doing the wints and more and more jurisdictions are figuring out that fining guys that don't use plumbers makes a nice fat profit for the city enforcing the existing codes.

You'd do well to check so that your shooting a fat pig in the axx at $45 wints doesn't come to an end.


For the record I do not believe you for one second that $45 wints are profitable, even with your 40 mpg Jetta.
Are you carrying the proper insurances?????????? Because a car that gets twice the mileage of my pickup is not going to make up the income shortage we are talking about here.


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## GTX63

A pluming license is becoming a requirement more and more as the lenders are eating the cost of repairs by fly by night and gone preservation contractors. As I have said before, companies like Safeguard will tell you to "Get one of your plumbing buddies to swing by and eyeball your work." Yeah, right. For $10. Six times per day.


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## BPWY

First I don't have any "plumber buddies".


Second of all there isn't a one that I've done business with over the years that would do ANY THING for $10........ other than hang up the phone before you got done with your sales pitch.

As a 1x vendor for SG I tell them to call their own professional and get them paid.

They aren't paying me to baby sit a plumber/roofer/electrician/general contractor etc etc etc.
And neither am I about to bank roll their specialty contractors for 60 days before they pay me.
I am not a bank, I might be working FOR the bank.... the one with all the money, but I AM NOT a financier for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not scared to tell them this either.


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## JFMURFY

nurumkin said:


> Winterizations are not plumber work, using plumbers as a bench mark is kind of like saying "well a surgeon makes $200 an hour so that is the benchmark for me putting a band aid on your owie". I don't like doing winterizations (just not fun work for me) but I will do 10 all day long at $45. This is where that little TDI car you guys made fun of comes in handy.


Gotta say if it works for ya...knock your self out dude at $45, to take on a insurance responsiblity is not worth in my book.


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## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> Gotta say if it works for ya...knock your self out dude at $45, to take on a insurance responsiblity is not worth in my book.


The issue is Fannie, Freddy, Hud Ect. are not going after the people that F-Up a wint. If they did the dipchit up here would have been out of business LONG ago. We have seen DOZENS of their F-ed up wints on the REO side and nothing ever happens......


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## JFMURFY

mtmtnman said:


> The issue is Fannie, Freddy, Hud Ect. are not going after the people that F-Up a wint. If they did the dipchit up here would have been out of business LONG ago. We have seen DOZENS of their F-ed up wints on the REO side and nothing ever happens......


All I know I settled a $15k insurance claim for one of my crews not opening the zone valves... I do'em all myself now. Expensive lesson. 
I guess any body can put a P&P contractor shirt on an instantly know what an how to do it. 
Whether HUD et.al go after any of them is moot to me... I learned to do it right the 1st time an not worry about lookin over my shoulder. Any way you shake it... $45 bucks isn't worth the risk.


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## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> All I know I settled a $15k insurance claim for one of my crews not opening the zone valves... I do'em all myself now. Expensive lesson.
> I guess any body can put a P&P contractor shirt on an instantly know what an how to do it.
> Whether HUD et.al go after any of them is moot to me... I learned to do it right the 1st time an not worry about lookin over my shoulder. Any way you shake it... $45 bucks isn't worth the risk.



Oh i agree 110%! Also I don't touch boilers and thankfully do VERY little P&P. All my REO's have the heat on. In other parts of the state the realtors are too damn cheap to keep the heat on. How can you expect to sell a house when it's 20 below inside??? Momma will take a lot longer looking and hopefully liking when the heats on but when it's off it might be 5 minutes tops before they leave. This is why the realtors days on market in the winter months up here are HALF of other parts of the state.....


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## JFMURFY

mtmtnman said:


> Oh i agree 110%! Also I don't touch boilers and thankfully do VERY little P&P. All my REO's have the heat on. In other parts of the state the realtors are too damn cheap to keep the heat on. How can you expect to sell a house when it's 20 below inside??? Momma will take a lot longer looking and hopefully liking when the heats on but when it's off it might be 5 minutes tops before they leave. This is why the realtors days on market in the winter months up here are HALF of other parts of the state.....


As long as you know what your looking at with boilers it's not a problem.. for me it's the radiant flooring... I throw my hands up an bid it.
I do very little wintz for the Nationals as they've driven the price too low. If I can't walk away from a wet wintz for $225...then its not for me. Dry wintz... there just not worth it.

Most of the brokers I know who take on the REO's do as you say... wintz them an then if they show it...dewintz it prior to showing...then rewintz it.
Evidently setting the temp at 55 deg cost them too much in the winter here in New England.


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## GTX63

Not just New England. Lot of properties we wint have heat and electric on. It is good to have the system protected if you lose power in the middle of winter.


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## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> As long as you know what your looking at with boilers it's not a problem.. for me it's the radiant flooring... I throw my hands up an bid it.
> I do very little wintz for the Nationals as they've driven the price too low. If I can't walk away from a wet wintz for $225...then its not for me. Dry wintz... there just not worth it.
> 
> Most of the brokers I know who take on the REO's do as you say... wintz them an then if they show it...dewintz it prior to showing...then rewintz it.
> Evidently setting the temp at 55 deg cost them too much in the winter here in New England.



I do boilers for private clients but not nationals. National do not pay enough to cover the time to do it right. As far as radiant floors, pump Glycol through all the loops and your good. I've only ever did one and it was north of $1000. Both of my Fannie realtors carry 25-30 properties a month. They spend around $4,000 a month for utilities and get reimbursed in around 30 days. Like i said, most realtors are to cheap to keep the heat on but their sales suffer in the winter months because of it.......


----------



## mtmtnman

GTX63 said:


> Not just New England. Lot of properties we wint have heat and electric on. It is good to have the system protected if you lose power in the middle of winter.



Yeah you guys get those ice storms. I remember them growing up in Illinois. The longest i have EVER seen the power out here in 8 years was 4 hours.......


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## Guest

*re*



mtmtnman said:


> Pretty tough getting a proper air compressor for winterization into a Jetta. And if you're using a twin tank like somebody would use for their finish nailer with a generator to power it, guaranteed you're not getting all the water out of the system. There is a guy up here running around doing the same thing with a little twin tank and I end up with the properties on the REO side. Guess what? 90 percent of them have some sort of broken plumbing. 10 CFM is the minimum I will allow any of my guys to use for an air compressor when doing winterizes. You can't get a 10 CFM compressor into a Jetta. I use a 6hp gas 12.4 cfm.
> 
> The whole point in this discussion is when you take cheap work, the Nationals expect everybody to take cheap work because according to them everybody has the same cost of business and we all live 100 foot apart from each other. I would love to see you cover rural Minnesota where you're jobs are fifty to seventy five miles apart from each other. You would be bankrupt in 2 months.


Actually I do about 75k miles per year. You can properly winterize a house with a 2.9cfm @150psi air compressor (I have done it at least a thousand times). The more posts I read on this board the more people sound like the "big shot" contractor who likes to come and tell you how hard it is and how it's going to cost a ton of money, when there are in fact far easier (albeit less glamorous) ways to do the job. 

My advice to you would be to find a cheaper way to do the work. I carry more then enough insurance and take the time to properly outfit my work vehicles. I am not using a stock jetta. I have a golf and a passat and both of them have beefed up rear suspension and all of the seats have been removed. The passat has about as much storage space as a ranger pickup. You can make fun of me all you want but at the end of the day I am more then happy with my income for the hours I put in, it sounds like most of the people here are not.


----------



## JFMURFY

mtmtnman said:


> I do boilers for private clients but not nationals. National do not pay enough to cover the time to do it right. As far as radiant floors, pump Glycol through all the loops and your good. I've only ever did one and it was north of $1000. Both of my Fannie realtors carry 25-30 properties a month. They spend around $4,000 a month for utilities and get reimbursed in around 30 days. Like i said, most realtors are to cheap to keep the heat on but their sales suffer in the winter months because of it.......


I thought the radiant flooring had the glycol mixture already in them... 
I had never done one before when I ran across a Buderus one...an luckily the installer had affixed his tag on the boiler...so I called him... he said it already had gycol in the loops... to leave it, so I did... that was in 2010, property sold no issues...thank God...


----------



## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> I thought the radiant flooring had the glycol mixture already in them...
> I had never done one before when I ran across a Buderus one...an luckily the installer had affixed his tag on the boiler...so I called him... he said it already had gycol in the loops... to leave it, so I did... that was in 2010, property sold no issues...thank God...


I carry glycol test strips. 90% have enough in them.......


----------



## JFMURFY

nurumkin said:


> Actually I do about 75k miles per year. You can properly winterize a house with a 2.9cfm @150psi air compressor (I have done it at least a thousand times). The more posts I read on this board the more people sound like the "big shot" contractor who likes to come and tell you how hard it is and how it's going to cost a ton of money, when there are in fact far easier (albeit less glamorous) ways to do the job.
> 
> Mr. Nurumkin... I think you missing the point, HUD allows $250 for a Wet Wintz, and $100 for a dry wintz. When contractors fall prey to the sleaze balls who've cut it down to $45 then we all lose. So what is a national doing for over half of the allowable. What he's doing is trying to find away to beat you out of the rest of it because you missed a photo.
> I don't know how long you've been doing P&P 3 years ago HUD was at $450 for a wet wintz... and I think $250 for a dry. You made a decent living doing 2-3 aday...
> Now they want them done in 48/hrs. This is America an your free to do as you please... if your comfortable doing them at that rate go ahead... For me it's not worth it, an by no means am I a "big shot contractor" just an experienced one who knows how the game is played.


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## JFMURFY

mtmtnman said:


> I carry glycol test strips. 90% have enough in them.......


Do the Plub supply house carry the strips?


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## BPWY

Very very very few have the heat on here.


The last few years I did QCs for a couple inspection firms.......... virtually nobody had heat on in the houses.


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## Guest

JFMURFY said:


> Mr. Nurumkin... I think you missing the point, HUD allows $250 for a Wet Wintz, and $100 for a dry wintz. When contractors fall prey to the sleaze balls who've cut it down to $45 then we all lose. So what is a national doing for over half of the allowable. What he's doing is trying to find away to beat you out of the rest of it because you missed a photo.
> I don't know how long you've been doing P&P 3 years ago HUD was at $450 for a wet wintz... and I think $250 for a dry. You made a decent living doing 2-3 aday...
> Now they want them done in 48/hrs. This is America an your free to do as you please... if your comfortable doing them at that rate go ahead... For me it's not worth it, an by no means am I a "big shot contractor" just an experienced one who knows how the game is played.


Well I also know how the game is played, this is why I know that the game is constantly changing. So instead of bitching that the nationals are not paying us enough I just find a way to make it work. Do I wish that they would pay more? Sure, but at the end of the day I do not have any control over what they pay. What I do have control over is my attitude, and my own actions. This is why instead of focusing my attitude on being mad at them I focus it on figuring out how to make money.


----------



## mtmtnman

nurumkin said:


> Actually I do about 75k miles per year. You can properly winterize a house with a 2.9cfm @150psi air compressor (I have done it at least a thousand times). The more posts I read on this board the more people sound like the "big shot" contractor who likes to come and tell you how hard it is and how it's going to cost a ton of money, when there are in fact far easier (albeit less glamorous) ways to do the job.
> 
> My advice to you would be to find a cheaper way to do the work. I carry more then enough insurance and take the time to properly outfit my work vehicles. I am not using a stock jetta. I have a golf and a passat and both of them have beefed up rear suspension and all of the seats have been removed. The passat has about as much storage space as a ranger pickup. You can make fun of me all you want but at the end of the day I am more then happy with my income for the hours I put in, it sounds like most of the people here are not.



It takes about 10-12 minutes to fill up a 40 gallon water heater to 50PSI with your toy of an air compressor. I know as i tried it to see 3 years ago. On a typical 2 bath house you need to charge the WH at least 2 times (using it for a storage tank) to get all the water out and then it's marginal. There is just not enough volume to do it in a timely fashion. My 12.5 will charge an entire house in 3 minutes flat. and will keep up with 1 faucet open. Like i said before, The issues i have seen with busted plumbing come from the contractors with inadequate equipment. (IE: Baby Compressors) Personally i could care less if you have to do twice as many wints as i do for the same $$$$ *What i do care about as your setting a precedent with the nationals and once you and every other yahoo out there takes the low rates where ALL expected to take these rates because so and so will do it for that. 
*


----------



## JFMURFY

nurumkin said:


> Well I also know how the game is played, this is why I know that the game is constantly changing. So instead of bitching that the nationals are not paying us enough I just find a way to make it work. Do I wish that they would pay more? Sure, but at the end of the day I do not have any control over what they pay. What I do have control over is my attitude, and my own actions. This is why instead of focusing my attitude on being mad at them I focus it on figuring out how to make money.


I've no reason to be mad at them, they have there own business model an I have mine, which is to steer clear of them. There's other ways to make money in this industry without the headache of dealing with 20 something Einstein.


----------



## mtmtnman

nurumkin said:


> Well I also know how the game is played, this is why I know that the game is constantly changing. So instead of bitching that the nationals are not paying us enough I just find a way to make it work. Do I wish that they would pay more? Sure, but at the end of the day I do not have any control over what they pay. What I do have control over is my attitude, and my own actions. This is why instead of focusing my attitude on being mad at them I focus it on figuring out how to make money.




You can control it by not taking their cheap prices. There just going to keep beating you down because you accept their prices. I can sit home and go broke. It will just take me longer.......


----------



## JFMURFY

mtmtnman said:


> You can control it by not taking their cheap prices. There just going to keep beating you down because you accept their prices. I can sit home and go broke. It will just take me longer.......


I don't consider myself an old man... but at 52 I've gained some life experiences, only wish when I was 20 or 30 I had listened more than I ran my mouth.


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## Guest

mtmtnman said:


> It takes about 10-12 minutes to fill up a 40 gallon water heater to 50PSI with your toy of an air compressor. I know as i tried it to see 3 years ago. On a typical 2 bath house you need to charge the WH at least 2 times (using it for a storage tank) to get all the water out and then it's marginal. There is just not enough volume to do it in a timely fashion. My 12.5 will charge an entire house in 3 minutes flat. and will keep up with 1 faucet open. Like i said before, The issues i have seen with busted plumbing come from the contractors with inadequate equipment. (IE: Baby Compressors) Personally i could care less if you have to do twice as many wints as i do for the same $$$$ *What i do care about as your setting a precedent with the nationals and once you and every other yahoo out there takes the low rates where ALL expected to take these rates because so and so will do it for that.
> *


You still need to drain the water heater, and 2.9cfm will keep up with a draining water heater. You can knock it all you want but I can count the number of freeze issues I've had in the last 5 years on 1 hand and most of those were not due to bad wints. 

Honestly I couldn't care less if you think that your upset that I set a bad precedent. You sound like a union thug who is pissed that I work harder then him because it makes him look bad. Would you feel better if I called up all of my clients and said "mtmtnman" said that he can't/won't do it as inexpensively as I can/will so I need to double my price?


----------



## mtmtnman

JFMURFY said:


> I don't consider myself an old man... but at 52 I've gained some life experiences, only wish when I was 20 or 30 I had listened more than I ran my mouth.


Yup, Agree 110%. Man if i could have a do over i would be a VERY wealth man. The older i get the more i thank my dad for being so hard on me. He was right but i just didn't see it!!!!


----------



## mtmtnman

nurumkin said:


> You still need to drain the water heater, and 2.9cfm will keep up with a draining water heater. You can knock it all you want but I can count the number of freeze issues I've had in the last 5 years on 1 hand and most of those were not due to bad wints.
> 
> Honestly I couldn't care less if you think that your upset that I set a bad precedent. You sound like a union thug who is pissed that I work harder then him because it makes him look bad. Would you feel better if I called up all of my clients and said "mtmtnman" said that he can't/won't do it as inexpensively as I can/will so I need to double my price?




I am the FURTHEST thing from a Union Lover. In fact them bastards slashed my tires and threatened me more than one when i lived in the Midwest as i wouldn't follow their party line. You do need to grow up and take a little advice from your elders though. You will thank yourself down the road.........


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## JFMURFY

nurumkin said:


> You still need to drain the water heater, and 2.9cfm will keep up with a draining water heater. You can knock it all you want but I can count the number of freeze issues I've had in the last 5 years on 1 hand and most of those were not due to bad wints.
> 
> Honestly I couldn't care less if you think that your upset that I set a bad precedent. You sound like a union thug who is pissed that I work harder then him because it makes him look bad. Would you feel better if I called up all of my clients and said "mtmtnman" said that he can't/won't do it as inexpensively as I can/will so I need to double my price?


Jump off dude... I don't know you from Adam, but it' pretty simple you do work for less than the going rate, and that's your perogative.
You don't have to though.
This Forum trys to help contractor's make decent buck in this dog eat dog industry, an if we close our ears an appear to be unwilling to accept the reality of it we all lose out.


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## Guest

Nurumpkin you sound like a "contractor" I ran into NE of Twin Cities and he drove a VW.... Up by Pine City if I remember correctly.


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## JFMURFY

FremontREO said:


> Nurumpkin you sound like a "contractor" I ran into NE of Twin Cities and he drove a VW.... Up by Pine City if I remember correctly.


What so crazy about it...the young feller lives in the freezer of the United States. Supply an demand, he's got'em by the cajones or however you spell it.


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## Guest

*re*



FremontREO said:


> Nurumpkin you sound like a "contractor" I ran into NE of Twin Cities and he drove a VW.... Up by Pine City if I remember correctly.


Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I doubt it was me though, I don't think I've ever worked that far north.


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## Guest

Lol...never said it was crazy. Heck 1 of my absolute best crews had a little car worth $1000 tops and ripped out back seats & put in hose reels and a major sized gas compressor. Fumes bout killed them but hey it worked


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## Guest

*re*



FremontREO said:


> Lol...never said it was crazy. Heck 1 of my absolute best crews had a little car worth $1000 tops and ripped out back seats & put in hose reels and a major sized gas compressor. Fumes bout killed them but hey it worked


He just did it that way because the fumes made it more fun. What is the deal with gas compressors though? Even if you could convince me that you need a huge compressor why gas? I can run a 2500 watt inverter (another advantage of diesel cars huge batteries) and use an electric compressor why go for gas and have the extra maintenance (and carbon monoxide high apparently) of a gas engine?


----------



## Guest

nurumkin said:


> Actually I do about 75k miles per year. You can properly winterize a house with a 2.9cfm @150psi air compressor (I have done it at least a thousand times). The more posts I read on this board the more people sound like the "big shot" contractor who likes to come and tell you how hard it is and how it's going to cost a ton of money, when there are in fact far easier (albeit less glamorous) ways to do the job.
> 
> My advice to you would be to find a cheaper way to do the work. I carry more then enough insurance and take the time to properly outfit my work vehicles. I am not using a stock jetta. I have a golf and a passat and both of them have beefed up rear suspension and all of the seats have been removed. The passat has about as much storage space as a ranger pickup. You can make fun of me all you want but at the end of the day I am more then happy with my income for the hours I put in, it sounds like most of the people here are not.


Can you post pics of your work 'trucks'? I would love to see them.


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## Guest

PropPresPro said:


> Can you post pics of your work 'trucks'? I would love to see them.



They aren't all that impressive to look at (basically look like a beater passat from the outside). Although its starting to rust out a lot more then I would like. My partner is trying to talk me into letting him chop the back off and turn it into an el comino


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## Guest

nurumkin said:


> They aren't all that impressive to look at (basically look like a beater passat from the outside). Although its starting to rust out a lot more then I would like. My partner is trying to talk me into letting him chop the back off and turn it into an el comino


Go ahead & post pics anyway, they sound interesting


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## Guest

*re*

I don't have any pics of the passat (and its about 75 miles away from me right now) but this is a trailer that I haul around for various repair work. 



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Guest

nurumkin said:


> I don't have any pics of the passat (and its about 75 miles away from me right now) but this is a trailer that I haul around for various repair work.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/dscf4722.jpg/
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Too bad. Really would like to see the 3 cars sometime. Maybe when they get back to the shop?


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## Guest

Listen to the guys here. Its all about the CFM's and not the PSI. I know of not 1 electric compressor that can push much CFM's. We made a heck of a living going behind those contractors.


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## Guest

PropPresPro said:


> Too bad. Really would like to see the 3 cars sometime. Maybe when they get back to the shop?


I'll see what I can do, I should be up there later this week.


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## mtmtnman

FremontREO said:


> Listen to the guys here. Its all about the CFM's and not the PSI. I know of not 1 electric compressor that can push much CFM's. We made a heck of a living going behind those contractors.


Same here Freemont. Roughly how many f-ed up wints did you see in your 15 years in the business???


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## Guest

FremontREO said:


> Listen to the guys here. Its all about the CFM's and not the PSI. I know of not 1 electric compressor that can push much CFM's. We made a heck of a living going behind those contractors.



The thing I'm not getting is; I don't think that most fixtures can even move 10-12 [email protected] psi (regulated down to 50 ish). That is a pretty serious quantity of air.


----------



## BPWY

nurumkin said:


> You still need to drain the water heater, and 2.9cfm will keep up with a draining water heater. You can knock it all you want but I can count the number of freeze issues I've had in the last 5 years on 1 hand and most of those were not due to bad wints.
> 
> Honestly I couldn't care less if you think that your upset that I set a bad precedent. You sound like a union thug who is pissed that I work harder then him because it makes him look bad. Would you feel better if I called up all of my clients and said "mtmtnman" said that he can't/won't do it as inexpensively as I can/will so I need to double my price?



Do you enjoy being wrong?

You forget that you are talking to experienced folks that have done a lot of wints in their day.

You are wrong about the tiny 2.9cfm keeping up with blowing out a water heater.
My 9 cfm won't keep up when the drain valve is fully open.

That's 3 times as much cfm as the 2.9


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## BPWY

nurumkin said:


> The thing I'm not getting is; I don't think that most fixtures can even move 10-12 [email protected] psi (regulated down to 50 ish). That is a pretty serious quantity of air.





Not nearly as much as you think it is once a couple valves get opened at once.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> Not nearly as much as you think it is once a couple valves get opened at once.



Why would you open more then one at once? It is impossible to fully clear a line when there is another exit for the air (path of least resistance)


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## BPWY

nurumkin said:


> Why would you open more then one at once? It is impossible to fully clear a line when there is another exit for the air (path of least resistance)






When you have a big unit you can do this. :laughing: :clap:



PSI means little when winterizing. Its all about the CFMs.

Ever blow one out with an industrial compressor? 
I have, turned the pressure regulator down to about 25 psi and got with it. 
Wint goes real fast with that much CFM.

But my normal compressor turns out 9 cfm. Not a piddly less than 3 cfm.


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## BPWY

double post, WTF?


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> When you have a big unit you can do this. :laughing: :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> PSI means little when winterizing. Its all about the CFMs.
> 
> Ever blow one out with an industrial compressor?
> I have, turned the pressure regulator down to about 25 psi and got with it.
> Wint goes real fast with that much CFM.
> 
> But my normal compressor turns out 9 cfm. Not a piddly less than 3 cfm.


PSI is important because it gives you the time for the compressor to catch up, For example if you did a wint with a scuba tank its only like 3 gal but its at 3200psi so you could do several wints with 1 tank. 5 gal at 150 psi and 2.9cfm is enough to hook it up and drain the WH the compressor is fast enough to keep up with the increasing volume as the WH drains (I know this because it occasionally turns off). 

I just don't think accept your statement that you need a larger compressor because you guy said yourself that you use the WH as a large pressure tank, that means that CFM is only important in regards to how long it takes to pressurize the WH. You could do it with a .9cfm (and I have done it in a pinch with my air stapler compressor, it just takes FOREVER). I just don't think that a larger compressor would be worth the hassle of having to lug it around (or a 100 hose). Because you have houses that would require more then 100 feet (I did a 10,000 sf house that would have needed at least 300 feet to make it to the meter), and then you have to deal with dragging a house over all of the crap that is left.


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## BPWY

100' hose or 100' cord running back to your inverter at the car.



Whats the difference?



And the scuba tank blow out.............. lmfao

To give yourself credibility I'd suggest you do it and video tape it for evidence.
I'll lay money on it not working. There won't be enough CFM to blow out a 2 bath house with water heater.


----------



## BPWY

nurumkin said:


> PSI is important because it gives you the time for the compressor to catch up, For example if you did a wint with a scuba tank its only like 3 gal but its at 3200psi so you could do several wints with 1 tank. 5 gal at 150 psi and 2.9cfm is enough to hook it up and drain the WH the compressor is fast enough to keep up with the increasing volume as the WH drains (I know this because it occasionally turns off).







THE ONLY time that happens with a 9 cfm compressor is when the drain is nearly plugged off with sediment. 
The only way thats happening for you is the same thing or you didn't open the valve all the way.


----------



## GTX63

Many of the clients are now requiring a minimum sized compressor for wints.


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## BPWY

Thats because they know the same thing most of us know.


It takes a big compressor with more than 3 cfm to properly wint a house.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> THE ONLY time that happens with a 9 cfm compressor is when the drain is nearly plugged off with sediment.
> The only way thats happening for you is the same thing or you didn't open the valve all the way.



Well 9 cfm is 1.25 gal/min at 150 psi (I'm just guessing on the psi of your unit). Your telling me that you need that much volume so that you don't have dead time. But the thing your forgetting is that if you have a 10gal tank on your compressor 10 gal @150 psi = 37.5 gal @40psi. So basically your compressor only needs to run for 7.8 seconds during the entire drain cycle. Even my small compressor is enough to keep up with a draining water heater (I assume about 6-8 minutes to drain) Which gives me time to set up photos, labels etc. 
And if you do it properly and do not open multiple fixtures pressurizing the WH 1 time is almost enough to do a 2 bathroom house. And the run time on even a small compressor is almost enough to keep up with a draining WH.




BPWY said:


> Thats because they know the same thing most of us know.
> 
> 
> It takes a big compressor with more than 3 cfm to properly wint a house.



There are actually 2 different debates going on here. Some are saying that you CANNOT winterize a house with a small compressor. Well you could winterize a house with a bicycle pump if you really wanted it would just take a very long time to pressurize the WH. Others are saying that it takes too long, this is a valid opinion. I do not think that the couple minutes you save are enough to make it worth hauling around a much larger compressor.


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## BPWY

I don't run 150 psi, that would do some interesting things to household plumbing.


----------



## Guest

nurumkin said:


> . . . I do not think that the couple minutes you save are enough to make it worth hauling around a much larger compressor.


Unless you upgrade to a bigger car, like an Oldsmobile Omega (5.7 diesel of course), or maybe a station wagon of some kind. Now that would be sweet!


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## BPWY

An omega won't have the 5.7L that I ever saw unless it was a custom job.

All the omegas I saw were 4 cylinder jobs.


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## Guest

BPWY said:


> An omega won't have the 5.7L that I ever saw unless it was a custom job.
> 
> All the omegas I saw were 4 cylinder jobs.


Well, if you had nurumkin's skills at customizing, a 5.7 Omega is nothing!


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## BPWY

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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## Guest

PropPresPro said:


> Well, if you had nurumkin's skills at customizing, a 5.7 Omega is nothing!


 I'm afraid I have not tried that one yet, but I have been casually working on a diesel minivan for the wife probably be ready next spring because I'm having trouble finding the 4wd parts after one of my contractors scrapped my old set by mistake. 




Oh and bpwy you don't put 150 psi in the system you keep your tank at that and reg it down that is how you can do a small house with a 10 gallon compressor without even running the compressor


----------



## GTX63

nurumkin said:


> Some are saying that you CANNOT winterize a house with a small compressor. Well you could winterize a house with a bicycle pump if you really wanted it would just take a very long time to pressurize the WH.


Where is Paul Pfieffer when you need him? :no:


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## REO2Rentals

gtx63 said:


> where is paul pfieffer when you need him? :no:


MIA :whistling:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Guest

GTX63 said:


> Many of the clients are now requiring a minimum sized compressor for wints.


Very true. Back in 08 I had a big meeting with the upper brass of FNM* at that time they were adamant that all contractors (nationwide) were to use a MINIMUM compressor that was capable of 4.4CFM @ 90psi. Where this gets nitwits into trouble is the @90psi. As mentioned before, CFM is the critical component. Almost any compressor sold today has a minimum psi rating of 90 or better. At low cfm the air just gradually flows over the top of voids/dips/bends/turns, but at higher cubic feet per minute there is enough force to actually clear the h2o from those points of issue thus actually clearing the water from what would normally be a problem area. We've all seen it a thousand times over, the pipes typical rupture on vertical runs, lowest point, or at or near a fitting. It's all about the volume of air being forced through the system.
What really gets me the most heated about all this: Just go to Youtube and look at some of the "instructional" videos some of these nationals and regionals are using! Little porter cable compressor that barely has enough cfm to keep up with a brad nailer (precisely what the compressor was designed for). 

Just did a wint today that I was absolutely disgusted @ the previous contractor. It was tagged/stickered as winterized 9/10/2012.... company asked me to go back behind and verify condition of his work. I find this.


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## Guest

Case and point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4qZHXpZZms
(look at the size of this house and then look at what he uses to do the wint)

#2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRbbufohaI8&feature=channel


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## GTX63

Hope all of the "$40 Wintz R US" folks cut and paste this. 
:thumbsup:Good Work.


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## Guest

P3+ said:


> Case and point:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4qZHXpZZms
> (look at the size of this house and then look at what he uses to do the wint)
> 
> #2
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRbbufohaI8&feature=channel



That music in the first video is the exact same music I play when I do my winterizations!


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## Guest

*re*

@p3+ 

I think you guys are missing my point, a larger compressor is better because it can get the job done faster but if you pressurize a 50gal WH to 40 psi that is the same as hooking your compressor up with no WH and running it for approx 9min (10cfm compressor @150psi). So like I said before if I take a bicycle pump and spend 45 min pressurizing a WH to 40psi and then open 1 valve and blow it out, go back and pump again and open another valve eventually I would finish the house. 

The only way you can say that this isn't enough air is if you are using your AC and blowing out each valve for more then 9 minutes before moving onto the next one. 

But you were right in that some nationals do require a minimum size, a friend of mine said he remembered reading it in a contract once. It was something like [email protected]


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## Guest

P3+ said:


> Very true. Back in 08 I had a big meeting with the upper brass of FNM* at that time they were adamant that all contractors (nationwide) were to use a MINIMUM compressor that was capable of 4.4CFM @ 90psi. Where this gets nitwits into trouble is the @90psi. As mentioned before, CFM is the critical component. Almost any compressor sold today has a minimum psi rating of 90 or better. At low cfm the air just gradually flows over the top of voids/dips/bends/turns, but at higher cubic feet per minute there is enough force to actually clear the h2o from those points of issue thus actually clearing the water from what would normally be a problem area. We've all seen it a thousand times over, the pipes typical rupture on vertical runs, lowest point, or at or near a fitting. It's all about the volume of air being forced through the system.
> What really gets me the most heated about all this: Just go to Youtube and look at some of the "instructional" videos some of these nationals and regionals are using! Little porter cable compressor that barely has enough cfm to keep up with a brad nailer (precisely what the compressor was designed for).
> 
> Just did a wint today that I was absolutely disgusted @ the previous contractor. It was tagged/stickered as winterized 9/10/2012.... company asked me to go back behind and verify condition of his work. I find this.


run in to this all the time! More so going behind safe guard contractors in this area.


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## Guest

GTX63 said:


> Hope all of the "$40 Wintz R US" folks cut and paste this.
> :thumbsup:Good Work.


now that funny:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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