# BLM pricing for HUD



## Totalcare

looking for some input on this PK and 24 Assets (which we worked for)has broken their contracts with BLM who has the HUD contracts in our area.. we are hesitant to sign with them because of how they treated PK and 24 Assets...
plus this is the price matrix and they are unwilling to negotiate...

125.00 HPIR/WIN.
375.00 initial services (summer) 325.00 (winter)

15 cubic yards included

25.00 routine insp.
25.00 routine landscape

am I asking too much by turning this down?


----------



## JoeInPI

No. No way anyone should work for those numbers. Up here, it is $26/yd to dump trash.

15 x $26 = $390 to get rid of that 15 yards included in your initial. They're paying $375? Cool- you give THEM $15 for the pleasure of doing their work. Your dump charges may be less, but just do the math. Ridiculous.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

The HUD rate for Debris removal is $50.00 so your 15 cyds should pay $750.00 by itself.:vs_no_no_no:


----------



## TripleG

:vs_worry:

NO dump charges by the sq yd. They charge by the Ton. In RI the fees were $55/ton but down here in the south, at my new local landfill, it's a whole $25/ton.


----------



## PropPresPro

TripleG said:


> :vs_worry:
> 
> NO dump charges by the sq yd. They charge by the Ton. In RI the fees were $55/ton but down here in the south, at my new local landfill, it's a whole $25/ton.


:vs_no_no_no:
Multiple landfills in my coverage area charge by the cubic yard. There are also multiple transfer stations that charge by the cubic yard.


----------



## safeguard dropout

Um....even if dump fees were $0.00 the prices are still a joke and BLM knows it. I called them a while back-they have a ton of work in my area. They wouldn't budge an inch on they're pricing(they needed to go about 9ft!) . Sit tight, they'll lose HUD soon enough.


----------



## Treehakker

Getting more money from them then pk pays in Missouri area sad to say and still no work


----------



## NorthwestWA

In WA State the dumps is anywhere from $110-$115/ton. but there is a min charge of $26. So.... for the SUB if you have a trailer, paying by the ton is better. If you have a small truck and it is only like 1.5CYD in the bed, you are screwed... you will pay out of pocket to get the job done. The $50/CYD is the HUD allowable, but if you are a sub you will be looking at about $25. Everyone is trying to get paid out of that $50. but the Sub is getting the lions share.


I will agree that $375 is ok unless Initial Services includes a maid service too.. right? Also, there should be no discount on that payout.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

NorthwestWA said:


> In WA State the dumps is anywhere from $110-$115/ton. but there is a min charge of $26. So.... for the SUB if you have a trailer, paying by the ton is better. If you have a small truck and it is only like 1.5CYD in the bed, you are screwed... you will pay out of pocket to get the job done. The $50/CYD is the HUD allowable, but if you are a sub you will be looking at about $25. Everyone is trying to get paid out of that $50. but the Sub is getting the lions share.
> 
> 
> I will agree that $375 is ok unless Initial Services includes a maid service too.. right? Also, there should be no discount on that payout.



$375.00 is never ok

A sales clean is $300-500 depending on how filthy the place is.

Debris should be bid out at $50.00 a cube based on how much is present.

Initial lawn is $125.00 minimum.

3 Smokes and a CO2 at $45.00 each = 180.00

Then what if there are bushes that need trimmed or a roof that needs tarped?:vs_worry:


----------



## mtmtnman

Craigslist Hack said:


> $375.00 is never ok
> 
> A sales clean is $300-500 depending on how filthy the place is.
> 
> Debris should be bid out at $50.00 a cube based on how much is present.
> 
> Initial lawn is $125.00 minimum.
> 
> 3 Smokes and a CO2 at $45.00 each = 180.00
> 
> Then what if there are bushes that need trimmed or a roof that needs tarped?:vs_worry:



I have been in this 8 years and NEVER saw those #'s on REO, Only Pre-sale.....


----------



## NorthwestWA

Craigslist Hack said:


> $375.00 is never ok
> 
> A sales clean is $300-500 depending on how filthy the place is.
> 
> Debris should be bid out at $50.00 a cube based on how much is present.
> 
> Initial lawn is $125.00 minimum.
> 
> 3 Smokes and a CO2 at $45.00 each = 180.00
> 
> Then what if there are bushes that need trimmed or a roof that needs tarped?:vs_worry:



WHAT?!! that is what you are paying you SUB Contractors for REO? WTF?? Dude... Not only will I come work for you. But I will bring all my Subs with me. Do you have work for us? because you are paying HUD National Rates to your sub contractors for REO work...


----------



## Craigslist Hack

NorthwestWA said:


> WHAT?!! that is what you are paying you SUB Contractors for REO? WTF?? Dude... Not only will I come work for you. But I will bring all my Subs with me. Do you have work for us? because you are paying HUD National Rates to your sub contractors for REO work...


Why would I use subs?:vs_worry:


----------



## Craigslist Hack

mtmtnman said:


> I have been in this 8 years and NEVER saw those #'s on REO, Only Pre-sale.....



I get them both sides of the ball but never through a company like BLM. We honestly don't have to stick to any pricing guidelines at all with most of our companies.

Bayview for instance is a company that does work post sale and we get whatever we charge. They have set pricing on locks. $60.00 per lock and I think a Wint is set at $250.00 for a dry wint? 

But my question from day one has always been why would a cyd be worth $50.00 pre sale and only $20.00 post sale? How has that ever made sense?


----------



## AceVentura

Less then the HUD allowables does not make cense or dollars

The banks get reimbursed through taxpayer funds upon conveyance of the properties.

So with the banks getting reimbursed the HUD allowables for something they ultimately have no costs on, and add in the fact that they have been charging interest. Think about the amount of money they make off of a default.

Logically they should be paying more then the allowable and taking a loss with there taxpayer funded reimbursements because they wrote bad loans.

Instead they profit off of slavery, in which they bear no costs. The only item they bear is a balance sheet which technically makes them look stronger as in assets and interest made from the assets.

Profits are in the billions every quarter. Flawed system.


----------



## Totalcare

NorthwestWA said:


> In WA State the dumps is anywhere from $110-$115/ton. but there is a min charge of $26. So.... for the SUB if you have a trailer, paying by the ton is better. If you have a small truck and it is only like 1.5CYD in the bed, you are screwed... you will pay out of pocket to get the job done. The $50/CYD is the HUD allowable, but if you are a sub you will be looking at about $25. Everyone is trying to get paid out of that $50. but the Sub is getting the lions share.
> 
> 
> I will agree that $375 is ok unless Initial Services includes a maid service too.. right? Also, there should be no discount on that payout.


Includes sales clean, handrails, hazard tape and wall plates....


----------



## NorthwestWA

Totalcare said:


> Includes sales clean, handrails, hazard tape and wall plates....




PFFFT!! then its worthless. I wouldn't do it. I never heard of initial REO with all that stuff for a preset price. I would bid it all and send it back.


----------



## NorthwestWA

Yeah... We all get that. That is all understood for a HUD property... But we are talking REO. I am sure you know but it means Real Estate Owned. The bank has "bought" this property back and they are going to list it on the MLS. There is no Conveyance. There is no tax Dollars. But Craigslist Hack has made a good point and I think it is a point we have all made to our clients. Why would HUD pricing be different than REO? It is the set value of that work. why are we forced into a 50% discount on REO? It had NEVER been justified to me. So we all have our work around right? Truth be told I make more money on REO trash out than I do HUD because I figured out a no fail bid. When Init REO comes into my queue I immediately make a phone call. If the phone call does not work I don't do the work. I Submit it immediately with bids. I have an approval that I am looking at right now from a INIT REO. there is 20 CYD. I am getting $1500 just for the debris.


----------



## AceVentura

NorthwestWA said:


> Yeah... We all get that. That is all understood for a HUD property... But we are talking REO. I am sure you know but it means Real Estate Owned. The bank has "bought" this property back and they are going to list it on the MLS. There is no Conveyance. There is no tax Dollars. But Craigslist Hack has made a good point and I think it is a point we have all made to our clients. Why would HUD pricing be different than REO? It is the set value of that work. why are we forced into a 50% discount on REO? It had NEVER been justified to me. So we all have our work around right? Truth be told I make more money on REO trash out than I do HUD because I figured out a no fail bid. When Init REO comes into my queue I immediately make a phone call. If the phone call does not work I don't do the work. I Submit it immediately with bids. I have an approval that I am looking at right now from a INIT REO. there is 20 CYD. I am getting $1500 just for the debris.


When a fannie backed property is at the auction who bids on it? Answer = Typically the company / mortgage servicer / bank who is holding / owns the mortgage.

Reason: If they buy the property at the auction, then they get to convey it to fannie / Freddie / VA etc to receive reimbursements / mortgage insurance.

FNMA FHMLC both received massive tax payer bailouts so are they really private companies or are they extensions of the Federal Government which are funded by tax payer dollars?

Your statements on REO I don't believe really apply to this here is why.

Reason 1: the vast majority at least 90% of these "REO" properties had conventional mortgages backed by Federal Agencies / Federally funded entities.

Reason 2: The few properties that the banks hold onto into REO status can not be conveyed either because of


A. Mortgagee neglect left the properties unable to convey because of extensive damages.

B. It was a nonconventional mortgage which had no federal backing

C. Perhaps they are trying to make more money - you will probably see more of this on reverse mortgages though.

It is taxpayer money... Period... If you don't think this is so,,, think about the bank bailouts in addition to fannie and Freddie.

So bottom line you are not knowledgeable in the subject area you are attempting to seem knowledgable in. You have failed, you do not understand the industry you are in.


----------



## Craigslist Hack

NorthwestWA said:


> Yeah... We all get that. That is all understood for a HUD property... But we are talking REO. I am sure you know but it means Real Estate Owned. The bank has "bought" this property back and they are going to list it on the MLS. There is no Conveyance. There is no tax Dollars. But Craigslist Hack has made a good point and I think it is a point we have all made to our clients. Why would HUD pricing be different than REO? It is the set value of that work. why are we forced into a 50% discount on REO? It had NEVER been justified to me. So we all have our work around right? Truth be told I make more money on REO trash out than I do HUD because I figured out a no fail bid. When Init REO comes into my queue I immediately make a phone call. If the phone call does not work I don't do the work. I Submit it immediately with bids. I have an approval that I am looking at right now from a INIT REO. there is 20 CYD. I am getting $1500 just for the debris.



I have never understood how a company can pay two different rates based on pre conveyance or post conveyance? A box springs and mattress is still a box spring and mattress? Am I missing something?:glasses:


----------



## GTX63

AceVentura said:


> The banks get reimbursed through taxpayer funds upon conveyance of the properties.
> 
> 
> Instead they profit off of slavery, in which they bear no costs. The only item they bear is a balance sheet which technically makes them look stronger as in assets and interest made from the assets.
> 
> Profits are in the billions every quarter. Flawed system.


The banks profit from the pockets of the taxpayer, not the slave. The asset management companies profit off of you by whatever name you want to call yourself. You will profit (or not) off of your good sense.


----------



## Totalcare

NorthwestWA said:


> PFFFT!! then its worthless. I wouldn't do it. I never heard of initial REO with all that stuff for a preset price. I would bid it all and send it back.


Not REO it was for HUD owned properties... I didn't sign with them


----------



## Totalcare

So I see replies talking about same company doing preconveyance and post conveyance work I was wondering how you get around this?? 

5.1.12.5 Prohibition on Pre-Conveyance Preservation and Protection Work

The Field Service Manager or its agent is prohibited from performing both pre-conveyance work on FHA Single Family Insured properties. In the event that the a Field Service Manager or its agent performs pre-conveyance work, the fees associated with post-conveyance work are expressly unallowable and will not be paid. The Field Service Manager must obtain written certification on an annual basis from its subcontractors affirming that they do not perform pre-conveyance work on FHA Single Family Insured properties.


----------



## AceVentura

GTX63 said:


> The banks profit from the pockets of the taxpayer, not the slave. The asset management companies profit off of you by whatever name you want to call yourself. You will profit (or not) off of your good sense.


Depends on how you look at it.

The banks do profit off the taxpayer, but profit can be found from "the slave" also.

If I "the slave" did not properly do my job, the property would not reach conveyance condition because of mortgagee neglect, so in this situation it "might" cost the bank money in order for them to convey the property because they need to correct the mortgagee neglect. I say "might" because an alternative insurance policy funded by "a slave" may pick up the tab. Ulitmatley there is a very high probablility the bank has some profit off the back of "the slave", they are still charging interest into foreclosure right?

You may or may not profit, but key point number one in that concern is will you be paid for the work you perform? If you are not paid for the work you perform does that not make you a "Slave"?


----------



## NorthwestWA

AceVentura said:


> When a fannie backed property is at the auction who bids on it? Answer = Typically the company / mortgage servicer / bank who is holding / owns the mortgage.
> 
> Reason: If they buy the property at the auction, then they get to convey it to fannie / Freddie / VA etc to receive reimbursements / mortgage insurance.
> 
> FNMA FHMLC both received massive tax payer bailouts so are they really private companies or are they extensions of the Federal Government which are funded by tax payer dollars?
> 
> Your statements on REO I don't believe really apply to this here is why.
> 
> Reason 1: the vast majority at least 90% of these "REO" properties had conventional mortgages backed by Federal Agencies / Federally funded entities.
> 
> Reason 2: The few properties that the banks hold onto into REO status can not be conveyed either because of
> 
> 
> A. Mortgagee neglect left the properties unable to convey because of extensive damages.
> 
> B. It was a nonconventional mortgage which had no federal backing
> 
> C. Perhaps they are trying to make more money - you will probably see more of this on reverse mortgages though.
> 
> It is taxpayer money... Period... If you don't think this is so,,, think about the bank bailouts in addition to fannie and Freddie.
> 
> So bottom line you are not knowledgeable in the subject area you are attempting to seem knowledgable in. You have failed, you do not understand the industry you are in.




That is not fair for you to finish your statement with such a presumptuous comment. I failed? I don't understand my industry? Prior to doing PP work I was living in the auction world. I along with many other investors were the "ones generally bidding" on properties. Along with a straw man rep that was bidding for the bank. Obviously he is there to ensure that the bank can recover the full amount of what they feel is owed to them. Now, these auctions are pretty much the first step after the date of foreclosure on a conventional loan. Once the auction process is over for that property and the bank buys it back, THAT property is now REO. Some state foreclosure laws automatically bypass the auction and transfer ownership back to the bank when the owner defaults. A HUD home is when a government-insured loan (FHA) gets foreclosed and the Federal Housing and Urban Development pays the defaulted loan off after conveyance, and then puts the home on the market. HUD properties and REO are 2 separate things. Don't sit there with this smug attitude and condescending responses, with this posture of dominance. Nobody here has any respect for that and we are not impressed with your half baked idea of what you think HUD and REO is. Reading your response again I can say that you are not 100% there. Either you are not properly conveying your thoughts in your response or you are just a plain ding dong. I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

But if you have such an astonishing grasp on your industry then Answer the question. Why is HUD pricing different from REO pricing. Yet again someone comes back with a response that does not answer the question. Why is HUD $50/CYD and why is REO $25/CYD. Can you answer that? Or are you a failure?


----------



## AceVentura

NorthwestWA said:


> That is not fair for you to finish your statement with such a presumptuous comment. I failed? I don't understand my industry? Prior to doing PP work I was living in the auction world. I along with many other investors were the "ones generally bidding" on properties. Along with a straw man rep that was bidding for the bank. Obviously he is there to ensure that the bank can recover the full amount of what they feel is owed to them. Now, these auctions are pretty much the first step after the date of foreclosure on a conventional loan. Once the auction process is over for that property and the bank buys it back, THAT property is now REO. Some state foreclosure laws automatically bypass the auction and transfer ownership back to the bank when the owner defaults. A HUD home is when a government-insured loan (FHA) gets foreclosed and the Federal Housing and Urban Development pays the defaulted loan off after conveyance, and then puts the home on the market. HUD properties and REO are 2 separate things. Don't sit there with this smug attitude and condescending responses, with this posture of dominance. Nobody here has any respect for that and we are not impressed with your half baked idea of what you think HUD and REO is. Reading your response again I can say that you are not 100% there. Either you are not properly conveying your thoughts in your response or you are just a plain ding dong. I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> But if you have such an astonishing grasp on your industry then Answer the question. Why is HUD pricing different from REO pricing. Yet again someone comes back with a response that does not answer the question. Why is HUD $50/CYD and why is REO $25/CYD. Can you answer that? Or are you a failure?


Yes You Failed

1. If you were in the "auction industry" you had to have money and were making money. Why would you back track and perform grunt work?

Most of the mortgagee banks that I have seen bidding on the properties just have them faxed or phoned in to the Sheriff's office saves the time / money etc.

You do understand when a property becomes REO.

Home owners in non judicial states typically have a redemption period of at least a year after a foreclosure.

The banks / mortgage servicers have to convey the properties to HUD to collect on their FHA policies.

I am legit, like I said you failed. Not gonna back off that statement. You fail to understand almost anything you are talking about. You are correct on when a property becomes REO, beyond that I fail to see one factual or educated statement for this industry.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and not tell you who you are yet, but I have a general idea.

--------------------------

To answer your other questions --

1. Pricing is not different, you just fail to understand what your talking about

2. Because you are willing to accept $25 per cube for REO, how's that for a response? How bout this, charge $75 per cube and let the bank take a loss on their bad loan?


----------



## mtmtnman

Totalcare said:


> Not REO it was for HUD owned properties... I didn't sign with them



BLM holds the HUD REO contract. That is what they are hiring for......


----------



## AceVentura

GTX63 said:


> The banks profit from the pockets of the taxpayer, not the slave. The asset management companies profit off of you by whatever name you want to call yourself. You will profit (or not) off of your good sense.


I can and have proven that the banks do profit off of "the slave".

When you have a main entity and then you have subsidiaries that's profits are ultimately of the original entity then who is profiting.

Here is where your taxpayer money, and "the Slaves" money meet to ultimately make one big slush fund to pay back bail out funds faster.

FNF - Main Corp

BKFS - Subsidiary

Loancare LLC - "a ServiceLink company" and also a holder of notes. You know who they contract their P&P to?

ServiceLink - Field Service company - you know what they do, they have their own pyramid.

So if LoanCare contracts out work on the loans to ServiceLink do you have both companies profiting / taking money from the same pool of original funds?


----------



## GTX63

AceVentura said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> 
> The banks do profit off the taxpayer, but profit can be found from "the slave" also.
> 
> If I "the slave" did not properly do my job, the property would not reach conveyance condition because of mortgagee neglect, so in this situation it "might" cost the bank money in order for them to convey the property because they need to correct the mortgagee neglect. I say "might" because an alternative insurance policy funded by "a slave" may pick up the tab. Ulitmatley there is a very high probablility the bank has some profit off the back of "the slave", they are still charging interest into foreclosure right?
> 
> You may or may not profit, but key point number one in that concern is will you be paid for the work you perform? If you are not paid for the work you perform does that not make you a "Slave"?


The system discussed here isn't dependent on perspective or opinion. The lender doesn't profit from you. Five Brothers/middleman will. If you didn't do your job, it has nothing to do with the lender or their minions, it is on you. Hypotheticals over claims and charge backs are another topic. A slave is one who is indentured or forced to work for little or nothing. I think the word might better be substituted with "sheep."


----------



## AceVentura

GTX63 said:


> The system discussed here isn't dependent on perspective or opinion. The lender doesn't profit from you. Five Brothers/middleman will. If you didn't do your job, it has nothing to do with the lender or their minions, it is on you. Hypotheticals over claims and charge backs are another topic. A slave is one who is indentured or forced to work for little or nothing. I think the word might better be substituted with "sheep."


Slave, or working under involuntary servitude is the proper statement. Here is why.

1. If you are working under the fear of chargebacks to just get paid the money you are owed while trying to slow down so you do not lose all of your money to the slave master - what does that make you.

2. Not being paid for work...


----------



## NorthwestWA

AceVentura said:


> Slave, or working under involuntary servitude is the proper statement. Here is why.
> 
> 1. If you are working under the fear of chargebacks to just get paid the money you are owed while trying to slow down so you do not lose all of your money to the slave master - what does that make you.
> 
> 2. Not being paid for work...


I don't understand. Slaves had no choice. Slaves were beaten to work for free. you are discussing money and chargebacks. I don't thinks slaves worried about chargebacks. This is ludicrous. I don't even know how I get roped into these simple conversations. You also have a choice.. you have a choice to get another job. You have a choice not to do this work. nobody is holding you hostage. nobody is going to release dogs and look for you when you leave. you are not a slave and to use the word slavery in this context is ridiculous. If you are going to cry go do it somewhere where others won't see or hear you. you are embarrassing yourself.


----------



## AceVentura

NorthwestWA said:


> I don't understand. Slaves had no choice. Slaves were beaten to work for free. you are discussing money and chargebacks. I don't thinks slaves worried about chargebacks. This is ludicrous. I don't even know how I get roped into these simple conversations. You also have a choice.. you have a choice to get another job. You have a choice not to do this work. nobody is holding you hostage. nobody is going to release dogs and look for you when you leave. you are not a slave and to use the word slavery in this context is ridiculous. If you are going to cry go do it somewhere where others won't see or hear you. you are embarrassing yourself.


It is forced work, you work under the fear of not getting paid, you continue working for the fear of not getting paid. That is slave and or involuntary servitude.

Not every one has the opportunities to get jobs. Not everyone went to and graduated from college. You think all the labor even graduated from high school?

Some of the world has limited opportunity, so when someone works 120 hours a week, they expect their slave wages, when slaves are not paid you think they revolt?


----------



## NorthwestWA

AceVentura said:


> Yes You Failed
> 
> 1. If you were in the "auction industry" you had to have money and were making money. Why would you back track and perform grunt work?
> 
> Most of the mortgagee banks that I have seen bidding on the properties just have them faxed or phoned in to the Sheriff's office saves the time / money etc.
> 
> You do understand when a property becomes REO.
> 
> Home owners in non judicial states typically have a redemption period of at least a year after a foreclosure.
> 
> The banks / mortgage servicers have to convey the properties to HUD to collect on their FHA policies.
> 
> I am legit, like I said you failed. Not gonna back off that statement. You fail to understand almost anything you are talking about. You are correct on when a property becomes REO, beyond that I fail to see one factual or educated statement for this industry.
> 
> I will give you the benefit of the doubt and not tell you who you are yet, but I have a general idea.
> 
> --------------------------
> 
> To answer your other questions --
> 
> 1. Pricing is not different, you just fail to understand what your talking about
> 
> 2. Because you are willing to accept $25 per cube for REO, how's that for a response? How bout this, charge $75 per cube and let the bank take a loss on their bad loan?



I failed because I am not at the auction and I am doing this work? ummm.... this work and buying in auction go hand in hand. Why would I not get involved? I get to see what is coming up to the block. Ever hear of Presale? So I get to go in and take all the time in the world to investigate the property. Everyone else gets to bid blind. Also, There is a housing crisis in WA STATE. to many people trying to buy and not enough inventory. That mean every tom dick and harry is at the auction now trying to buy. When I buy I have to calculate rehab and ARV. If someone is buying to live in it. Then they are not worried about margin. They are not trying to sell. So That means as an investor we have to lay off the auction for a while until things cool off.

But it is very clear to me that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. All you do is come out here and rant and rave and bitch and moan. the world is always falling apart for you. Everything is bad and nothing is good. Everyone is dumb and you are smart. You call this Grunt work? I have made over $200k in this dying industry every year until this year. And I barely lift a finger. If this is grunt work then you are a soft individual to boot. Flipping investment properties is way harder than this garbage.

And P.S. your answer to the question is also garbage. You still can not answer why the pricing is set differently. Everyone is asking nobody is answering and once again you retorted with a condescending response that makes you look like an ass.


----------



## NorthwestWA

AceVentura said:


> It is forced work, you work under the fear of not getting paid, you continue working for the fear of not getting paid. That is slave and or involuntary servitude.
> 
> Not every one has the opportunities to get jobs. Not everyone went to and graduated from college. You think all the labor even graduated from high school?
> 
> Some of the world has limited opportunity, so when someone works 120 hours a week, they expect their slave wages, when slaves are not paid you think they revolt?
> 
> You are a gdam slave runner aren't you, you and "your subs" you are the problem so why don't you come on down to the slave house and see what you get.
> 
> Not crying, not in my slave blood, real with it - Yes.




HAHAHAH!!!! HAHAHAHAHA LOL HAHAHAHAH!! OH MY GOD!!!! Its anyone else reading this? Slave Wages??? HAHAHAHAHA 120 hours a week??!! Daaaaamn....... oh... you made my day thank you. It took me a minute I finally understand what and who you are. I did not realize you were an uneducated individual with limited abilities. I apologize for making you feel dumber than you already are. Now put your tissue down get back to picking the cotton before you catch a beating.


----------



## AceVentura

Nortwest WA what you said constitutes that you are committing felonies of a federal nature. Off the top of my head i would say bid rigging. I emplore you to self report your fraud to the proper authority. Your best bet is the Washington Department of Justice. I have this whole petition started which reads blue collard prisons for those white collard frauds who dont self report their crimes.


----------



## oteroproperties

AceVentura said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> 
> The banks do profit off the taxpayer, but profit can be found from "the slave" also.
> 
> If I "the slave" did not properly do my job, the property would not reach conveyance condition because of mortgagee neglect, so in this situation it "might" cost the bank money in order for them to convey the property because they need to correct the mortgagee neglect. I say "might" because an alternative insurance policy funded by "a slave" may pick up the tab. Ulitmatley there is a very high probablility the bank has some profit off the back of "the slave", they are still charging interest into foreclosure right?
> 
> You may or may not profit, but key point number one in that concern is will you be paid for the work you perform? If you are not paid for the work you perform does that not make you a "Slave"?


No it doesn't make you a slave. Slaves don't have a choice.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## oteroproperties

AceVentura said:


> It is forced work, you work under the fear of not getting paid, you continue working for the fear of not getting paid. That is slave and or involuntary servitude.
> 
> Not every one has the opportunities to get jobs. Not everyone went to and graduated from college. You think all the labor even graduated from high school?
> 
> Some of the world has limited opportunity, so when someone works 120 hours a week, they expect their slave wages, when slaves are not paid you think they revolt?
> 
> You are a gdam slave runner aren't you, you and "your subs" you are the problem so why don't you come on down to the slave house and see what you get.
> 
> Not crying, not in my slave blood, real with it - Yes.


This argument sounds a little like the women staying with an abusive husband because she's afraid of what he will do.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## oteroproperties

NorthwestWA said:


> I failed because I am not at the auction and I am doing this work? ummm.... this work and buying in auction go hand in hand. Why would I not get involved? I get to see what is coming up to the block. Ever hear of Presale? So I get to go in and take all the time in the world to investigate the property. Everyone else gets to bid blind. Also, There is a housing crisis in WA STATE. to many people trying to buy and not enough inventory. That mean every tom dick and harry is at the auction now trying to buy. When I buy I have to calculate rehab and ARV. If someone is buying to live in it. Then they are not worried about margin. They are not trying to sell. So That means as an investor we have to lay off the auction for a while until things cool off.
> 
> But it is very clear to me that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. All you do is come out here and rant and rave and bitch and moan. the world is always falling apart for you. Everything is bad and nothing is good. Everyone is dumb and you are smart. You call this Grunt work? I have made over $200k in this dying industry every year until this year. And I barely lift a finger. If this is grunt work then you are a soft individual to boot. Flipping investment properties is way harder than this garbage.
> 
> And P.S. your answer to the question is also garbage. You still can not answer why the pricing is set differently. Everyone is asking nobody is answering and once again you retorted with a condescending response that makes you look like an ass.


He did answer. It was a bit condescending but in a nut shell the prices are not "set" different. Even with the HUD guidelines they are "Allowables" that is a mere suggestion. The truth is like any service or product its only worth what a person or business is willing to pay for it. Making you or more accurately us all, only worth our best paying clients. As a side note I will say that the reason the general consensus is to pay less for post sale over pre is because the liability is lower for all involved?? Maybe. I'm sure it's more complicated then that but that's all the thought I'm willing to give it. I've never done reo and I never will. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## oteroproperties

NorthwestWA said:


> HAHAHAH!!!! HAHAHAHAHA LOL HAHAHAHAH!! OH MY GOD!!!! Its anyone else reading this? Slave Wages??? HAHAHAHAHA 120 hours a week??!! Daaaaamn....... oh... you made my day thank you. It took me a minute I finally understand what and who you are. I did not realize you were an uneducated individual with limited abilities. I apologize for making you feel dumber than you already are. Now put your tissue down get back to picking the cotton before you catch a beating.


Picking cotton? Care to explain that one? Who's talking about cotton?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## AceVentura

Has anyone seen the movie Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back? Well basically what happend was 2 stoners got their money from a movie that was based on them. There was a forum on the internet bashing them, so what they did with their money was fly around the country and had a good time setting people straight. Its a great movie maybe some of you overly emotional people should watch it. If u want legit info u got it in front of u. If you want to twist it thats on u.


----------



## safeguard dropout

AceVentura said:


> It is forced work, you work under the fear of not getting paid, you continue working for the fear of not getting paid. That is slave and or involuntary servitude.
> 
> Not every one has the opportunities to get jobs. Not everyone went to and graduated from college. You think all the labor even graduated from high school?


College graduate, I am not. High school grad, am not. Kicked out of a white collar home at 18, that is me. I had my opportunity at education like everyone else. I squandered it. That said, I have netted 6 figures plus in this business every year since 2009, with 99% self labor. I do not work in fear of not getting paid. I work in hopes of getting paid. I refuse to buy into the "poor me no opportunity" propaganda. Some people don't work to become their best because they are told (by the government) they are too stupid and can't, (without government help) and these are the ones who are the REAL drain on the US taxpayer. It is sad these individuals will never realize their full potential and become an asset instead of a burden.

ACE, you obviously have knowledge on the ins and outs of this circus, but when you use terms like "slave", you lose credibility. By calling me and anyone else on here a slave, you are diminishing to zero what the true slaves endured to help pave the way to freedom.


----------



## AceVentura

safeguard dropout said:


> College graduate, I am not. High school grad, am not. Kicked out of a white collar home at 18, that is me. I had my opportunity at education like everyone else. I squandered it. That said, I have netted 6 figures plus in this business every year since 2009, with 99% self labor. I do not work in fear of not getting paid. I work in hopes of getting paid. I refuse to buy into the "poor me no opportunity" propaganda. Some people don't work to become their best because they are told (by the government) they're they are too stupid can't, (without government help) and these are the ones who are the REAL drain on the US taxpayer. It is sad these individuals will never realize their full potential and become an asset instead of a burden.
> 
> ACE, you obviously have knowledge on the ins and outs of this circus, but when you use terms like "slave", you lose credibility. By calling me and anyone else on here a slave, you are diminishing to zero what the true slaves endured to help pave the way to freedom.


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...-name-to-unpronounceable-symbol-1993-20160422


----------



## NorthwestWA

oteroproperties said:


> He did answer. It was a bit condescending but in a nut shell the prices are not "set" different. Even with the HUD guidelines they are "Allowables" that is a mere suggestion. The truth is like any service or product its only worth what a person or business is willing to pay for it. Making you or more accurately us all, only worth our best paying clients. As a side note I will say that the reason the general consensus is to pay less for post sale over pre is because the liability is lower for all involved?? Maybe. I'm sure it's more complicated then that but that's all the thought I'm willing to give it. I've never done reo and I never will.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



Of course In understand that the allowables are mere suggestions. I don't do REO trash outs at $25/CYD. You could never pay for labor on that rate. If you caught my previous posts you will see that I often get paid more than $50/CYD on REO based on my bidding technique. my question and the question that others asked is: why do the clients even attempt to cut our prices by 50% based on whether it is REO or HUD. You may be on the right track though about liability, etc. I think that because they are GOV backed loans and the HUD sets the price that banks feel that those are the top dollars to be paid. and because REO is not a property to be conveyed via HUD guidelines then they can ask for a more "reasonable" price. not that I agree with $25 being reasonable, but if we were in their shoes maybe it would. right?


----------



## AceVentura

NorthwestWA said:


> I failed because I am not at the auction and I am doing this work? ummm.... this work and buying in auction go hand in hand. Why would I not get involved? I get to see what is coming up to the block. Ever hear of Presale? So I get to go in and take all the time in the world to investigate the property. Everyone else gets to bid blind. Also, There is a housing crisis in WA STATE. to many people trying to buy and not enough inventory. That mean every tom dick and harry is at the auction now trying to buy. When I buy I have to calculate rehab and ARV. If someone is buying to live in it. Then they are not worried about margin. They are not trying to sell. So That means as an investor we have to lay off the auction for a while until things cool off.
> 
> But it is very clear to me that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. All you do is come out here and rant and rave and bitch and moan. the world is always falling apart for you. Everything is bad and nothing is good. Everyone is dumb and you are smart. You call this Grunt work? I have made over $200k in this dying industry every year until this year. And I barely lift a finger. If this is grunt work then you are a soft individual to boot. Flipping investment properties is way harder than this garbage.
> 
> And P.S. your answer to the question is also garbage. You still can not answer why the pricing is set differently. Everyone is asking nobody is answering and once again you retorted with a condescending response that makes you look like an ass.


Good News For Ya Northwest WA - I have cemented your statements permanently :biggrin:

Have you self reported your fraud to the Department of Justice Yet?

You still have an opportunity...

Here is a similar story, maybe you will self report?

Two Georgia Real Estate Investors Indicted for Bid Rigging and Bank Fraud at Public Home Foreclosure Auctions

A federal grand jury in Atlanta charged in separate indictments two real estate investors with bid rigging and bank fraud related to public real estate foreclosure auctions in Georgia, the Justice Department announced today. *
Real estate investor Douglas L. Purdy has been charged with one count of bid rigging and five counts of bank fraud for participating in the alleged conspiracy and scheme at Forsyth County, Georgia, foreclosure auctions from 2008 to 2012.* Clifford Wayne Hill was charged with one count of bid rigging and seven counts of bank fraud related to public foreclosure auctions in Gwinnett County, Georgia, from 2007 to 2012.* The defendants and their co-conspirators allegedly rigged bids at public foreclosure auctions and defrauded banks that owned the mortgage notes.* Among other methods, the conspirators allegedly held secret “second auctions” of properties they had obtained through rigged bids, dividing the auction proceeds that should have gone to pay off debts against the properties and, in some cases, to homeowners who had defaulted.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-...igging-and-bank-fraud-public-home-foreclosure

“These defendants corrupted public foreclosure auctions in Georgia to keep for themselves money that rightfully belonged to banks and homeowners,” said Assistant Attorney General Bill Baer of the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division.* “Those who illegally enrich themselves at the expense of financially distressed homeowners and their lenders should be held accountable for their crimes.”


----------



## GTX63

This thread is starting to go south so lets tie up the loose ends and try and stay on topic. I'm very familiar with real estate auctions and how they operate; what exactly is it that you are stating NorthwestWA is guilty off?


----------



## AceVentura

GTX63 said:


> This thread is starting to go south so lets tie up the loose ends and try and stay on topic. I'm very familiar with real estate auctions and how they operate; what exactly is it that you are stating NorthwestWA is guilty off?


I have done all the research related to purchasing pre conveyance foreclosures. If you have entered a pre conveyance property you are not eligible to bid on the property for the reasons as NorthwestWA has stated.

So if NorthwestWA has purchased properties as he previously stated he is guilty of defrauding the banks at minimum.

The reasoning for this rests in the facts that Northwest WA has inside information related to the conditions of the properties. Further if for some reason Northwest WA was to make false disclosures related to the properties that are pre sale and then bid on them, "as he would know that the conditions are present - which in turn would lead the bank to devalue the asset and not bid on it - well then he induced the bank to act or to not act which is again fraud"

Northwest WA's exact statements are that he is able to have full access to the property, inspections he is paid to perform, he has inside information as to the condition of the properties as opposed to the parties he is bidding against at the trustee auctions.

Northwest is then able to defraud the system, and defraud the banks he is working for by having insider information be obtained after being paid by those banks to gather the information for. 

It is a clear cut conflict of interest.

Crimes would fall somewhere within the antitrust ranks probably somewhere inside the Sherman Act. I am not going to sit and read through the laws to fully determine and outline what the exact statutes are.

The only point in which Northwest WA could purchase these properties is upon conveyance to the bank, or conveyance to the Federal Gov agency / entity for determination on amount to be sold for. *If it was done prior to this it is Northwest WA's information that was used to help determine a selling price at auction for these properties.*

If Northwest WA purchased these properties prior to the full conveyance of title and rights with insider information it would absolutely beyond a reasonsable doubt constitute fraud. 

Further the thread can get back on topic, not trying to highjack it. This information / posts should not be deleted until the proper authority has had the opportunity to review them, otherwise it would constitute destruction of evidence.


----------



## NorthwestWA

AceVentura said:


> Good News For Ya Northwest WA - I have cemented your statements permanently :biggrin:
> 
> Have you self reported your fraud to the Department of Justice Yet?
> 
> You still have an opportunity...
> 
> Here is a similar story, maybe you will self report?
> 
> Two Georgia Real Estate Investors Indicted for Bid Rigging and Bank Fraud at Public Home Foreclosure Auctions
> 
> A federal grand jury in Atlanta charged in separate indictments two real estate investors with bid rigging and bank fraud related to public real estate foreclosure auctions in Georgia, the Justice Department announced today. *
> Real estate investor Douglas L. Purdy has been charged with one count of bid rigging and five counts of bank fraud for participating in the alleged conspiracy and scheme at Forsyth County, Georgia, foreclosure auctions from 2008 to 2012.* Clifford Wayne Hill was charged with one count of bid rigging and seven counts of bank fraud related to public foreclosure auctions in Gwinnett County, Georgia, from 2007 to 2012.* The defendants and their co-conspirators allegedly rigged bids at public foreclosure auctions and defrauded banks that owned the mortgage notes.* Among other methods, the conspirators allegedly held secret “second auctions” of properties they had obtained through rigged bids, dividing the auction proceeds that should have gone to pay off debts against the properties and, in some cases, to homeowners who had defaulted.
> 
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-...igging-and-bank-fraud-public-home-foreclosure
> 
> “These defendants corrupted public foreclosure auctions in Georgia to keep for themselves money that rightfully belonged to banks and homeowners,” said Assistant Attorney General Bill Baer of the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division.* “Those who illegally enrich themselves at the expense of financially distressed homeowners and their lenders should be held accountable for their crimes.”



uhhh.... What? Are you suggesting that I have defrauded the system somehow based on this case? My words are cemented? How am guilty of buying foreclosed properties at auction and selling them after I have remodeled them? Are you high? Do you even understand what you have read about this case you are presenting? How am I guilty of Bid rigging? are you insane? You are suggesting that I am defrauding the system because I know when to stop bidding. The bank does not assess value to the property based on information PP guys provide. The property is auctioned in an attempt to recover what is currently owed. That is why the straw man is there bidding as well for the bank. What information I have makes me aware of when to stop bidding. Other bidders may continue to bid if they want. Is there no end to how impossibly ridiculous you can get? It seems to me that you are having some type of internal crisis and are reaching for ways to attack me. You have threatened me already with flying out here to attack me and now you are alleging that I am criminal. Don't you think it is time to move on?


----------



## AceVentura

NorthwestWA said:


> uhhh.... What? Are you suggesting that I have defrauded the system somehow based on this case? My words are cemented? How am guilty of buying foreclosed properties at auction and selling them after I have remodeled them? Are you high? Do you even understand what you have read about this case you are presenting? How am I guilty of Bid rigging? are you insane? Is there no end to how impossibly ridiculous you can get? It seems to me that you are having some type of internal crisis and are reaching for ways to attack me. You have threatened me already with flying out here to attack me and now you are alleging that I am criminal. Don't you think it is time to move on?


Last post just to set the record straigt.

I have not threatened you in any way shape or form. You again are taking information and twisting it, misinterpreting it, and whining about it.

To answer your other questions read my post above and then self report your fraud to the proper authority.


----------



## NorthwestWA

OMG.. I just looked up this case....


These guys all grouped together and formed an alliance. Each bidder agreed to only bid on a certain property. Everyone allowed each other to win a super low bid on a property. Then they take their properties after that auction and pool them together and have another auction where they sold them for a profit. They basically Colluded to Defraud the system. Together the formed a Monopoly where the "team" bought all the properties and they forced the property prices down at auction.

Your right AceVentura. This is exactly what I did. you are an epic numbskull.


----------



## G 3

AceVentura said:


> Has anyone seen the movie Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back? Well basically what happend was 2 stoners got their money from a movie that was based on them. There was a forum on the internet bashing them, so what they did with their money was fly around the country and had a good time setting people straight. Its a great movie maybe some of you overly emotional people should watch it. If u want legit info u got it in front of u. If you want to twist it thats on u.


Are you sure you are not sampling some of Silent Bob's stash? You've been ranting and rambling on non-nonsensical. You're sentences ramble on and do not connect, and you insult every chance you get. Let me save you the effort of a reply...

"You are the one who has been smoking the stash, and blah blah blah, you must be a slave runner too, blah blah blah, (Numerous babble threats inserted here), blah blah blah."

Dude... give it a rest. Take a break, regroup, and join the class with respect. And make sure you have your facts correct.


----------



## AceVentura

G 3 said:


> Are you sure you are not sampling some of Silent Bob's stash? You've been ranting and rambling on non-nonsensical. You're sentences ramble on and do not connect, and you insult every chance you get. Let me save you the effort of a reply...
> 
> "You are the one who has been smoking the stash, and blah blah blah, you must be a slave runner too, blah blah blah, (Numerous babble threats inserted here), blah blah blah."
> 
> Dude... give it a rest. Take a break, regroup, and join the class with respect. And make sure you have your facts correct.



G3

I understand exactly what class I am. I understand who I am, and I understand who you are.


----------



## GTX63

I think this topic has run it's course. Thanks everyone for your participation, there's a complimentary bag of microwave theatre style popcorn on your way out.


----------

